A recent
post in Jonathan Schwartz blog says there were 151,039 SPARC and 269,856 x64/x86 downloads for Solaris 10 so far. “An early look suggests we’re not going to have a problem with demand” Schwartz said.
Total number of Solaris 10 downloads exceed 420000
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Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
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I noticed you didn’t like my post about Stallman’s attacks on open source developers which I gave evidence to and so promptly hit the mod button. Don’t worry I’ll be posting those links a lot more for everybody to see.
How can you call yourself a moderate when you defend Fidel Castro, RMS, and Karl’s (dipt.dial-iner) manifestos any chance you get. You might want to portray yourself as a moderate, but you have stated that you agree with Karl’s extremist ideology and went to great lengths to defend Fidel Castro on the opening night of OSGalaxy.
You just don’t want OpenSolaris to succeed because of your ideology so that’s why you and David spread your FUD.
As the anonymous guy from sweden pointed out. Besides.. if you decide your OS based on those issues, I really hope you don’t work with anything remotely related to IT.
And you can continue to your feeble attempts to say that the GPL is equally as free as BSD but from a user perspective but us rational people know that it’s the developer that chooses licenses not users because its the developer that codes.
Go ahead and hit the mod one on this too. I bet it really angered you that my first post on the thread didn’t get modded down.
Thanks for the link James. I was pretty sure that my realtek 8169 (normal ethernet) would be supported, but it’s the realtek 8180 chipset (I think) for my linksys v.4 wireless card that would be the problem. I stil rely on ndiswrapper in Linux because I believe Realtek still hasn’t released drivers for the 2.6.x kernels. Ndiswrapper has been a huge boon to Linux. I think a port to Solaris would be great.
Installing and configuring Linux/BSD operating systems for use of desktop is almost a hobby for me. I can tell you without mincing words Solaris 10 is years behind when it comes to installation & configuration. There’s not much to specify about my hardware other than CPU and memory. My issues aren’t with the hardware; the issues are with Solaris. The problem isn’t Solaris supporting my hardware components; it supports all. The problem is configuring Solaris to use it as a desktop. Maybe Solaris makes a good server, but it’s a big disappointment for me as a desktop, because I read a lot about how excellent it is (was). I am a somewhat intermediate Linux/BSD user; I don’t see why I have to struggle with installing and configuring Solaris when there are distros (like Arch, NetBSD, Slackware, Crux) that’re easier and straightforward to deal with & use.
>Kde is available from http://blastwave.org
>Alan.
Yes, and it has the added advantage of being installed in a single /opt dir.
Easy to include or exclude from your path depending on your needs.
Hmmm,
> As to Solaris 10 itself – I also downloaded it, and let’s
> just say an archaic installer, too many CD swaps,
4 cd’s? Hmmm, doesn’t seem like too much. I could be wrong on this, but doesn’t Red Hat require 3 or 4 cd’s as well?
> default bourne shell, default CDE, I found it sluggish on
>
strange, Solaris 10 comes with Gnome 2.6 as default and CDE as an option.
> my Athlon 3000 xp system, overwrote my bootloader
> without any warning, thus screwing my linux system (and
> having me have to fix that), can’t co-exist with a linux
> partition on the same drive (*must* delete it – no
> choice). Sure, it’s a great system – NOT.
Strange as well, all bugs relating to co-existance were eliminated, indeed Andries Brouer has even posted a patch to the linux kernel list regarding the fdisk id’s, see http://groups-beta.google.com/group/linux.kernel/browse_thread/thre…
Interestingly enough I have seen a very paper around multibooting OS’es including Solaris on a single disk, I blogged about it at http://blogs.sun.com/roller/page/fintanr/20050113#multi_boot_with_s…
I’m curious, why did Sun pick Gnome over KDE as the default desktop? Would they ever consider offering two brands, each one optimized for whatever desktop the user prefers?
Hi,
To be honest I only have a rough idea as to why and would prefer if one of the Gnome folks answered this one rather than having me speculate.
There was an interview done with some of the folks based in Dublin which did touch on this question a few years ago, I tried to google for it, but unfortunately the site with the original article, linuxpower.org seems to be defunct. Anyone have a copy of this article?
OpenSolaris will represent some competition for Linux… I say bring it on! Penguins have a sharp bite! Make no mistake however, that at this point, it is OpenSolaris that is the underdog, as Linux has a lot of momentum behind it right now. Having said that, I don’t think that either OS is going anywhere anytime soon, but it is going to be hard for Sun to keep up with the pace of innovation in Linux which is really starting to increase exponentially. It sounds like Sun wants to try… the more power to them. OpenSolaris does have its innovative features too, so it is a platform that does have its own strengths.
Of course, Sun is able to benefit from Linux too, without Linux, Sun wouldn’t have a shiny new GNOME UI that they can stick on top of their Solaris OS as one example. GNOME will be an important technology for them in the workstation space. Linux has a huge ecosystem of apps surrounding it now, and because most of them are portable, OpenSolaris can use them too.
It is so cool to see so many open source flavors of UNIX these days. Just another OS to play with on my 10GB test drive! We have Linux, the BSD’s (including the new kid on the block DragonFly BSD), and now OpenSolaris! Good times in nerd land.
Of course, the first thing they need to do with OpenSolaris is update the ancient UNIX command line tools… bash and vim by default anyone?
“mmm. Let’s see – the BSD licence allows rich company (Apple anyone) to take someone elses hard work, milk it for all it’s worth, sell it for a mint and not return a single thing to the community. That’s a great community license isn’t it?”
Who cares?
I was talking about the developer rights – I don’t give sh*t about what others can or cannot do with my code. (And I don’t care that YOU care). As a developer I am more free to do what I want (and thereby more freedom for ME) with BSD code than with GPL, which is why I prefer to release with a BSD license. That others want to use MY work to sell or whatever, I don’t give a rats ass about. I still have MY code, and others have free access to that.
Well excuse me but at NO time during the install was I prompted about bootloaders or dual booting, or were other systems recognised. This was a Solaris 10 download 2 weeks ago, so unless it’s been fixed…
As to Gnome – nowhere was it seen. I had the choice of CDE or Java Desktop environment. I downloaded all 4 CDs, at one point during the install it asked for optional software to be installed, please insert disk. Since i’d downloaded all the disks that I could see I inserted them one by one to have them ALL rejected as not the right disk. Maybe Gnome was one of them…
As to Redhat, without seeming to be flaming, I wouldn’t touch that with a barge pole. I’m a Debian guy 🙂 Well, a Libranet guy, which is Debian improved!
Sorry to say, but what I saw of Solaris didn’t impress me, and seriously, if this is the best Sun can do they’re stuffed. That’s my honest appraisal. That said, it was installed onto a workstation, and typically it’s not going to be employed in such a role. I downloaded it cos I wanted to look at the Sun hype, and that’s all it is – HYPE.
@ Brian Matzon – you can stick to keeping your code, using BSD, my morals and ideals are far different to yours. I simply do not believe that BSD allows you to efficiently share your code, and have others who use it contribute back to the project(s) for the betterment of the whole community. I believe that’s why Linus released the Linux kernel under the GPL.
Amazingly, for all of those BSD lovers who harp about the BSD code, it hasn’t done it much good has it? It’s still a niche Operating System Kernel, and always will be. For Linux having started ten years later, has easily outpaced it. Of course the BSD developers will find some reason to make excuses for this. GPL software keeps going from strength to strength, day to day, week to week, month to month and year to year.
No – you can keep your BSD license Brian and i’ll cherish the true collaboration that the GPL allows.
Dave
PS: A developer that doesn’t seem to give a shit about his users but only looks at things from a developers point of view usually doesn’t get too far with projects i’ve found. You treat your users like that and they’ll dump your project quick smart.
I hope this doesn’t come off as rude, and I think it’s good to have real people from Sun stopping in here these days, but I can’t help be curious. Does the company send you in here to do PR, or are you folks dropping in of your own volition?
Of course, the first thing they need to do with OpenSolaris is update the ancient UNIX command line tools… bash and vim by default anyone?
Solaris 9 already came with bash:
> bash
bash-2.05$ > pkginfo | grep bash
system SUNWbash GNU Bourne-Again shell (bash)
bash-2.05$
Hi, we all drop in by ourselves when time permits, same way as we blog by ourselves and the same way that Sun engineers have been posting on solaris news groups for years. No permission needed, requested or granted – the company is incredibly open like that. So no, its not PR, its simply that everyone is damn proud of Solaris 10.
mmm. Let’s see – the BSD licence allows rich company (Apple anyone) to take someone elses hard work, milk it for all it’s worth, sell it for a mint and not return a single thing to the community. That’s a great community license isn’t it?
Well, personally, I’d love to live in a community with that much generosity and talent…
Statistics 🙂
Mr. Schwartz writes in his title: Total Number of Solaris 10 Licenses Downloaded Since First Commercial Ship
What exactly does this mean?
* The ‘commercial ship’ was when Solaris 10 was released; 1 feb 2005? Or does this include the various RC’s?
* What does ‘Solaris 10 licenses downloaded’ exactly mean? Does this mean people who agreed to the Solaris 10 license by clicking ‘i agree’ before the download started?
“I simply do not believe that BSD allows you to efficiently share your code, and have others who use it contribute back to the project(s) for the betterment of the whole community.”
BSD has no issues that prevent you to contribute back to the project… The only “issue” is that people CAN choose not to do it. Which I haven’t had any issues with, with the projects I am involved in.
“PS: A developer that doesn’t seem to give a shit about his users but only looks at things from a developers point of view usually doesn’t get too far with projects i’ve found.”
I do care about my users – but users is just that: Users. They have no need for my code, only a binary. And for what it’s worth, using a BSD license or a GPL license doesn’t affect my users, since I am the one actualy coding the stuff. The issues only arises when someone other than me chooses not to donate the code back.
I am not saying that GPL is a bad thing, I’m just saying that it carries a lot of issues. For instance I can’t use any GPL code in my projects, because of its license. Yet I can use all the BSD code I want to. It’s a bit sad that I have to worry about not letting GPL code near my code (especially with all the zealots around!). And from my point of view it restricts me as a developer. I don’t like restrictions…
So let me see if I have this right, because you can’t configure the desktop and for whatever reason you had to manually configure X, there is something wrong with Solaris?! Solaris is NOT Linux, which means a lot of things are going to be different. Support for video cards is one of them, in my case on the three x86 boxes I installed and used Solaris 10 on, the only thing I had to modify is the size of the desktop. In all cases the installation routine picked up the video card used (ATI Radeon). During the installation I was asked if the settings were correct and did I want to change them.
Java Desktop System is designed to be a distributed desktop for Enterprise level “homogonized” computing, so it is as configurable as can be (http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/coll/1217.2). And like they say “if all else fails, read the documentation”.
Of course, Sun is able to benefit from Linux too, without Linux, Sun wouldn’t have a shiny new GNOME UI that they can stick on top of their Solaris OS as one example. GNOME will be an important technology for them in the workstation space.
Of course, one could also argue that were it not for Sun’s numerous contributions to GNOME, it would be a steaming pile of crap…just like it was a few years back.
Mr. Schwartz writes in his title: Total Number of Solaris 10 Licenses Downloaded Since First Commercial Ship
What exactly does this mean?
* The ‘commercial ship’ was when Solaris 10 was released; 1 feb 2005? Or does this include the various RC’s?
First Commercial Ship means when it was officially released, that doesn’t include Solaris Express downloads.
* What does ‘Solaris 10 licenses downloaded’ exactly mean? Does this mean people who agreed to the Solaris 10 license by clicking ‘i agree’ before the download started?
Probably yes,
@ David Pastern:
The choice in guis is CDE (the motif-based one) and Java
Desktop System — also known as gnome-with-a-Sun-theme.
Perhaps you missed the flamewars on slashdot and osnews
about it?
@ Daan:
actually, bash has been supplied as SUNWbash (meaning that
you can log bugs on it with Sun) since Solaris 8 was first
released. That’s 5-odd years ago now.
And if you want vim, try sunfreeware.com or blastwave.org.
Even though after 122 posts on this thread you probably won’t see this post, I thought I’d give you some kudos, in case you do check back …
FWIW, A nun, he moos, you’ve done an excellent job of arguing the case for the GPL and Linux, presenting facts and logical arguments, while Lumberg has relied on name calling, lies, and general trolling.
Good job.
Thanks, man, I appreciate it!
“Lumberg has relied on name calling, lies, and general trolling. ”
That’s what Lumbergh always does whether he’s bashing Linux users or bashing Mac users, apparently makes no difference to him. Or maybe it’s a her.
I, too, have seen Lumberg post here frequently, and he/she is a consistent troller against those that don’t use his/her favorite OS, or agree with his/her opinions on licensing.
And, not that I want to bring politics into this becaue I don’t care about Lumberg’s politics, nor do I want to promote my own political views (I’m mostly a moderate, not that it matters one single iota).
But Lumberg sounds a lot like Limbaugh, and Lumberg’s style is much like Rush Limbaugh’s – that is, demonize and stereotype those that disagree, and use frequent ad hominem, straw-man attacks. His/her frequent accusation of “communist”, “leftist”, “marxist”, or “hate-mongering”, or diatribes against RMS (badly mis-representing RMS, not that I totally agree with RMS) suggests that Lumberg is a “Dittohead”, or a close approximation of one.
And this is by no means a criticism or endorsement of any political leanings, liberal or conservative or anything else. It is just an observation.
But again, those arguing against Lumberg have done a great job (especially A nun, he moos). Actually, it’s been an intellectual equivelent of the NBA champions beating up on a very bad YMCA pick-up squad. 😉
I specifically removed the more off-topic parts AND I was responding to a post that wasn’t modded down.
I’ll repost another version of it, further edited to make it even safer, but I feel like I’m not allowed to respond here.
How can you call yourself a moderate when you defend [an authoritarian ruler of a large Carribbean island], RMS, and [a OSNews contributor whose screen name is the same as the inventor of a famous analysis of capitalism] manifestos any chance you get.
I support proprietary software as much as I do free software. I think that speaks for itself. As for your accusations, to which I will not specifically reply in order to avoid being modded down as off-topic, they are simply untrue.
but you have stated that you agree with [a OSNews contributor whose screen name is the same as the inventor of a famous analysis of capitalism] extremist ideology
I agreed with some of the things he said, and there was hardly anytyhing “extremist” about them. Perhaps you could give us some examples of the most outrageous things he said?
You just don’t want OpenSolaris to succeed because of your ideology so that’s why you and David spread your FUD.
Let me be clear: I really don’t care if OpenSolaris succeeds or not. I was merely responding to those who claimed that OpenSolaris would make Linux obsolete by providing a compellling case that Sun faces an uphill battle. You’re welcome to argue otherwise; so far you haven’t.
And you can continue to your feeble attempts to say that the GPL is equally as free as BSD but from a user perspective but us rational people know that it’s the developer that chooses licenses not users because its the developer that codes.
Of course it’s the developer that chooses the license. That’s why the BSD license is less restrictive from a developer’s point of view. The point I respectfully submit is that the GPL license makes sures that derivatives remain free as well, which is beneficial for users. Thus, both are equally free but in different ways. Again, you’re welcome to politely present a counter-argument to this.
I’m really curious to know if you think the CDDL more or less restrictive than the BSD or GPL license, however. If so, how?
*claps*
No, it wasn’t A nun, he moos hitting the abuse button, it was I, since it seems you are completely unable to reply to arguments without misrepresenting the oponent, lie or make personal attacs.
I have no idea what your major malfunction is, but this is not the place to let out steam in rabid attacs on everyone disagreeing with you. Beyond the fact that some people insist on arguing with you and thus generates traffic, hits and posts I am completly at a loss why you havn’t been banned from this site since you do nothing but pollute it with your hateful maliciousness.
“I also don’t care if Solaris eventually has a larger market share than Linux – as long as they both have a larger share at Microsoft’s expense!”
If you think so- it is OK. If Linux community thinks so- it is heading for big surprise.
Solaris is after Linux, not Windows. Sun is after Red Hat and IBM, to be precise.
Of course I feel for Linux community and IBM management: they poured a lot of hype and dollars into Linux, and were about to collect benefits. Red Hat sells licenses, IBM sells hardware, everyone buys Linux because it is cheap- not for GPL.
After all, even IBM admits that “The fact that it’s [Linux] open-source is also interesting and valuable, but that’s not really the main point.”
(http://www.crn.com/sections/breakingnews/breakingnews.jhtml;jsessio…)
Suddenly, Sun comes with Solaris giveaway and without any struggle it is in the position to cut off air to the Red Hat, and screw IBM in the process.
Sun has full solution: hardware and software. IBM without Red Hat, Red Hat without IBM do not.
Do you really believe that 420,000 Windows admins who are not into Linux and UNIX suddenly had got an urge to download and install Solaris???
Most likely, 420,000 downloads are done by a major group interested in Solaris: UNIX-oriented community. People who would rather die than run Windows. People who would rather run Linux than Windows. People who can now choose Solaris. And so they do.
But, of course, you could live in a dream world where IT makes decision to install server OS solely based on the fact how GPL-ish its license is, and how open its source is.
These people in your dream world, who were happily running UNIX just few years ago without urge to recompile the kernel, suddenly will feel less powered if Solaris sources will arive later, or if Solaris license restricts how they can cut-n-paste Solaris kernel code.
These people will prefer Linux because it is backed by the Stallman and “community.”
These people will not consider Solaris because Sun is after Red Hat Linux.
These people will trust Red Hat to support its Linux longer than Sun will support its Solaris.
Lets see if this dream comes true. I bet it will not.
Suddenly, Sun comes with Solaris giveaway and without any struggle it is in the position to cut off air to the Red Hat, and screw IBM in the process.
Sun has full solution: hardware and software. IBM without Red Hat, Red Hat without IBM do not.
There are several flaws with this line of thinking.
– If OpenSolaris eclipses Linux, what stops RedHat from selling RedHat OpenSolaris? Nothing. Schwartz even commented in his News.COM interview on how there will be a Gentoo OpenSolaris.
– If OpenSolaris eclipses Linux, what stops IBM from supporting OpenSolaris? Nothing. They already support Solaris for most of their middleware products. Websphere, for example, has a major install base on Solaris.
– If RedHat fails, IBM has just as much interest in promoting Novell.
All of the pro-OpenSolaris anti-Linux babble is pretty tiresome. OpenSolaris might make headway, but I doubt it makes much of it at Linux’s expense. It will more than likely gain marketshare at the expense of regular Solaris, HP-UX and AIX, same as Linux.
If OpenSolaris eclipses Linux, what stops RedHat from selling RedHat OpenSolaris?
[…]
If OpenSolaris eclipses Linux, what stops IBM from supporting OpenSolaris?
It’s from Sun.
Never underestimate the relevance of politics.
You make a lot of assumptions in your post. You shouldn’t assume so much…
You talk a lot about a “dream world”, yet it is you who refuse to face the fact that Solaris has nowhere near the mindshare and community that Linux has. Don’t belittle the power of community: word-of-mouth is one of the most powerful marketing forces there is. The fact that Linux belongs to no one – and therefore everyone – can be quite appealing to a lot of people for a lot of reasons.
Plus, Linux has a cuter mascot. Don’t underestimate the power of Tux!
Seriously, I think OpenSolaris is a good idea, but I also think that it’s too little, too late to catch up with Linux at this time. I agree with the other poster who said that most migrations to Solaris 10 x86 will be at the expense of regular Solaris, AIX and HP-UX.
Of course I could be wrong, only time will tell. But it is my opinion that Solaris dethroning Linux (thanks for reminding everyone that this is how the argument started in the first place) is currently nothing more than wishful thinking.
You talk a lot about a “dream world”, yet it is you who refuse to face the fact that Solaris has nowhere near the mindshare and community that Linux has.
I think that has a hell of a lot to do with who (and where) you’re asking.
I think that has a hell of a lot to do with who (and where) you’re asking.
Of course, if you used subsamples it’d be possible to find groups where Solaris x86 generates more buzz than Linux. However, a simple search on Google News gives about 5 times more articles for Linux than Solaris – and that’s during the period where Sun made big announcements regarding Solaris (and therefore enjoyed a peak in media coverage).
Other Web searches indicate that there’s still a much larger Linux community than a Solaris one (remember, a community also includes users). Look, I’m not trying to argue that Linux is better or that Solaris sucks. I’m simply stating the fact that, right now, Linux has more mindshare and more momentum. For example: Linus Torvalds is in the BusinessWeek list of best managers. McNealy and Schwartz aren’t. That doesn’t meant that they aren’t good – just that Sun isn’t getting the media coverage that Linux enjoys – even when they announce major news like the open-sourcing (to a degree) of Solaris.
Market momentum is a complex beast; it’s hard to say what affects it, and what doesn’t. But you can’t just manufacture it, and even having a better technology won’t help (the best example still being BetaMax vs. VHS, or BeOS vs. Windows). It also doesn’t help that Sun sells Linux boxes (and a lot more than Solaris x86 boxes at that). That just sends mixed signals – I mean, Sun wouldn’t sell Linux if they felt it was an inferior product, so why would a customer choose Solaris if Linux might be sufficient, and both are sold by the same vendor?
More great points, A nun, he moos.
I’d like to throw in the fact that Sun is at a severe competitive disadvantage, in terms of development costs, with OpenSolaris (or closed Solaris). Apparently, the development of Solaris 10 has cost Sun upwards of $500 million. By contrast, any vendor selling Linux (Red Hat, Novell, IBM, HP), can leverage the development of hundreds of thousands of open source developers, as well as other companies, world wide, then sell their own “value added” suite of support, hardware, and services.
Sun, no matter how talented their engineers are, and no matter how many hundreds of millions of dollars they throw at putting out a server OS on steriods, will have a living hell to go through because their competitors are spending a fraction of the cost on R&D for the OS. They also have to compete with a mindshare (Linux) that dwarfs their own (Solaris).
But if Sun can eek out a profit with this business model, more power to them. I personally applaud a company willing to spend as much as Sun has on R&D – it’s all about putting out great products. But they’ve got a serious uphill battle.
IBM, Red Hat, Novell, Intel, and many others are smart. They know that they need to follow the market, and can’t dictate the market. Sun thinks they can dictate the market, kind of like putting the cart in front of the ox.