To get the already-delayed follow-up to Windows XP out the door by 2006, it has decided to omit some of the most ambitious features, including WinFS over network.
How Microsoft Is Clipping Longhorn
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Eugenia Loli
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“this is a technology driven release, not a date driven release”?
They already have a great OS on their hands. If it takes a long time to create something truely innovative and ambitious, so be it! I wouldn’t mind waiting ’till 2006, 2007 or whatever as long as they continue to update XP and don’t pull any “XP Second Edition” kind of nonsense.
It would be easy, for example, to locate not just digital photos, but e-mail from people in them. It’s an enormous undertaking.
They seem to think that WinFS somehow magically looks at the pictures, recognize the people and goes off to get the emails from them
I mean it’s just meta-data. And most of the important data are going to be inserted by the user at some point.
Sure, it would be easy, but no one would care to use the FS that way. It’s the usual marketing BS. Couldn’t they think of something better?
Anyway, WinFS over network is where WinFS will shine in corporate environments and probably replace a lot of existing databases. It seems like a bad decision to leave it out.
Are they running out of money or feeling the pressure from the open-source world? I guess it’s the latter.
They should take their time and deliver a finished polished product for once.
This is not the first time Microsoft has announced ambitious OS plans (including a revamped file/networking system) only to then be very late in delivery whilst cutting out lots of the hyped features.
microsoft has billions in cash, they can obviously hire programmers than can get the OS out within 1 year.
It doesn’t work this way. Nine women cannot have a baby in one month.
This is not the first time Microsoft has announced ambitious OS plans (including a revamped file/networking system) only to then be very late in delivery whilst cutting out lots of the hyped features.
Has MS ever (I mean EVER) delivered an OS on time? It seems to me 2 years after the original ship date is the norm.
Was starting to think that WnFS was a bad idea anyway.
But I thought XP Reloaded was going to be like an XP Second Edition? Looks like just a marketing drive.
Hopefully, they don’t drop plans to ditch the Win32 API in favor in WinFX.
This is where Apple’s strategy of doing “date drive” OS releases makes bit more sense.
They set a date, draw a line in the sand, and then start to figure out what features they’ll try to get into that release. Probably sorting by priority and some level of complexity and risk as well.
They probably know which one’s they are willing to drop at the last minute if they are quite ready for prime time. This is probably also why they don’t talk a whole lot about what is IN the release ahead of time. Gives them a lot of “wiggle room” in case something isn’t coming together as they had hoped or planned.
The new media player software lets online music stores — including one that Microsoft plans to launch later this year — snap right into the design, so that users can easily buy music from inside the player application.
The goal, Fester said in his presentation, is to “outflank Apple,”
Read as ‘blatantly copy’.
I’ve gotten a chance to use a recent longhorn beta, and it was a large dissapointment. For one, it’s not a totaly revamped system like I was hoping. It is alot nicer looking, but it only has a few noticeable enhancements that really ought to be included in a win xp service pack, IMO. Think of it this way: Win 98 was to win 95 as Longhorn is to xp. A few improvements, but not enough to justify a purchace.
Gnome and KDE fans should concider this a big opportunity, now that windows is going to stay basicly the same, this will give you much needed catch-up time in certain areas.
“The new media player software lets online music stores — including one that Microsoft plans to launch later this year — snap right into the design, so that users can easily buy music from inside the player application.
The goal, Fester said in his presentation, is to “outflank Apple,”
Geez why is Microsoft so concerned with Apple and doesn’t iTunes on Windows ALREADY do this?
Six months into 2006 Apple will be on 10.5 with a 10.6 release in 4 months or so if they go at their current rate, and their is no doubt that they can deliver.
But not stunned that it’s happening.
Microsoft have brought the WinFS idea to the table repeatedly and it’s been shelved repeatedly. They also like to talk about their innovative new ideas coming real soon now which stymies the opposition to some extent.
Not now. This is a real opportunity for the players to come up with the goods to keep ahead of MS.
<quote>I’ve gotten a chance to use a recent longhorn beta, and it was a large dissapointment. For one, it’s not a totaly revamped system like I was hoping. It is alot nicer looking, but it only has a few noticeable enhancements that really ought to be included in a win xp service pack, IMO. Think of it this way: Win 98 was to win 95 as Longhorn is to xp. A few improvements, but not enough to justify a purchace.</quote>
If this was the finished product they would release it now I think, your conclusions are completely unjustified when reviewing an OS that is 2 yrs away from release.
“How Microsoft Is Clipping Longhorn”
I have heard from a Microsoft engineer that the new code-name is Shorthorn.
I have heard from a Microsoft engineer that the new code-name is Shorthorn.
Or maybe “Mad Cow”?
😉
They already have a great OS on their hands. If it takes a long time to create something truely innovative and ambitious, so be it! I wouldn’t mind waiting ’till 2006, 2007 or whatever as long as they continue to update XP and don’t pull any “XP Second Edition” kind of nonsense.
This has been brought up before, but because MS has to maintain their dominance, they actually may not have the luxury of waiting. They may be pressured to get product out the door. If they did decide to take the full amount of time to implement all the “innovative” features they want, it would take many years and many explanations to customers: “just wait, it’s coming and it’s spectacular.” However, most business want imperfect solutions now, not perfect ones later. While MS hypothetically spends years on their next gen OS, other solutions could step into the vacuum and erode the dominance of Windows. The alternative solutions like OSS products and OSX are actually freer to implement radical ideas, as they don’t have to maintain control on the market (yet); they also don’t have to worry about straying to far from “the formula” and scaring off current customers or breaking their legacy apps.
And let us not forget that customers grumble about paying for updates that aren’t coming.
MS has to maintain their dominance
I think this is more about revenue than dominance. But both seem to go hand-in-hand.
Quote:
“However, most business want imperfect solutions now, not perfect ones later.”
I don’t think anyone wants an imperfect product.
But I do think that most want a working product but with less features than no product that promisses hundreds of features.
Personally I think fixed release shedules (as with apple and kde?) are better than feature releases (as in we’re going to implement all those features but can’t put a real date on it).
I don’t think anyone wants an imperfect product.
No, but I think he meant they’d rather take an imperfect and incomplete (within reason) product right NOW than a perfect and complete product later.
Now this all assumes that the new things Longhorn has to offer its customers are really needed/wanted by its customers.
It seems to me that this has to be less and less true each release.
I don’t think anyone wants an imperfect product.
But I do think that most want a working product but with less features than no product that promisses hundreds of features.
Well, the thing is that they have a couple of working products allready, which are WinXP and Win2k3. Do you really think that companies are that eager to spends huge amounts of time and money on upgrading their systems when the new version has very little to offer them compared to their existing ones? Geez, most companies has just recently switched to WinXP, they have more important things to do than upgrading their systems all the time. Like getting work done for example.
Apple Copland ?? or Pink ? hehehehe
I think this is a Copland deal
The alternative solutions like OSS products and OSX are actually freer to implement radical ideas, as they don’t have to maintain control on the market (yet); they also don’t have to worry about straying to far from “the formula” and scaring off current customers or breaking their legacy apps.
That is the beauty of OSS and GNU/Linux. OS X will have the same probelms that MS is if they were that large. The hundreds of different Linux distro’s, someone will still be supporting your setup a decade from now. Patches will still come down the line. Those that want the lastest can have it. Those that need the linux 2.0 kernel well that is still being run as well.
Well, the thing is that they have a couple of working products allready, which are WinXP and Win2k3. Do you really think that companies are that eager to spends huge amounts of time and money on upgrading their systems when the new version has very little to offer them compared to their existing ones? Geez, most companies has just recently switched to WinXP, they have more important things to do than upgrading their systems all the time. Like getting work done for example.
Agree 100%. Individuals and companies would my rather get free service packs for their XP than pay for Win98 -> Win98SE -> WinMe type of “upgrades” every year.
“HARD DECISIONS. The changes also affect Microsoft’s plan to make the next version of its Office software work only on Longhorn. The new plans call for that Office package to work on previous versions of Windows as well.”
Because if I want to upgrade my office package and it also takes an OS upgrade then I might as well try Linux and OOo and other Linux apps. Ouch.
Not only the above but the whole article smells of “pushed by emerging alternatives”. Congratulations to OSS.
I wonder if there is a Moore’s law for software on “the road ahead”. Next is Longhorn. Thereafter Blackcomb. And then “End of the road”? It’s on the horizon for CPU speed. But Bill is lucky. It looks like his retirement will come first.
This is not the first time Microsoft has announced ambitious OS plans (including a revamped file/networking system) only to then be very late in delivery whilst cutting out lots of the hyped features.
Has MS ever (I mean EVER) delivered an OS on time? It seems to me 2 years after the original ship date is the norm.
If MS delivers WinFS in Longhorn, they will have finally shipped everything they promised for Cairo, which was originally scheduled for 1995. So “Cairo” will only be about 11 years late.
Although to be fair, they will also have delivered more than was originally slated for Cairo, but the Object File System was one of the biggest and most anticipated features promised for Cairo. It’s all everybody talked about when mentioning Cairo back in the day (exept for the corporate types, who were longing for the promise of directory services). And most of their other promised features did make it by Windows 2000.
Here’s a blast from the past (November 2004), when the promise of Cairo seemed so near:
http://www.byte.com/art/9411/sec9/art11.htm
Because if I want to upgrade my office package and it also takes an OS upgrade then I might as well try Linux and OOo and other Linux apps. Ouch.
Not only the above but the whole article smells of “pushed by emerging alternatives”. Congratulations to OSS.
In case you didn’t know, Windows’ biggest enemy is Windows. After that, it’s the previous version of Windows before that “other” previous version of Windows. Then it’s Mac OS. Then, we get down to the threat desktops running Linux and OOo pose. I hate to break it to you, but Microsoft hurts itself much worse than the Linux Desktop can with it’s best shot.
“They seem to think that WinFS somehow magically looks at the pictures, recognize the people and goes off to get the emails from them
I mean it’s just meta-data. ”
Indeed. You could do it with file comments (which other OSes have had for many years).
What they do need is a more advanced method of identifying file types than just looking at a few characters at the end of the file name. Of course, coding that would be hard work.
Whats this Windoze OS that I have heard about? Sounds pretty killer to me!!! Oh wait… You must mean Windows… Do yourself a favor and pick up a dictionary… It will do you some good to know how to spell!
You fool!!!
“Windoze” is a common derogatory name for windows…
Read slashdot more often.
Your English and you have no concept of irony??
Why doesn’t MS simply license the best file system on the planet? They could license BeFS from PalmOne and they cold probably have it ready in six months! BeFS already does everything that WinFS is intended to.
First off, they could simply use OpenBeFS instead, they are allowed to do so without permission.
Secondly, BeFS and WinFS are somewhat different. WinFS is a database layer on top of NTFS, BeFS isn’t exactly a database.
BeFS would have a hard time replacing a real database, something that regular desktopusers doesn’t care much about, but for companies it’s a valuable feature since many of their databases are files with meta-data already.
So I don’t think that BeFS would suite Microsoft very well, especielly since it’s rather different from NTFS and isn’t a real database.
That said, I prefer BeFS. But it depends on the task.
This thread is starting to look like a GNU/. topic. Don’t you guys know that trashing Microsoft without facts doesn’t help your cause and may actually damage it?
I used the beta for a while and the only filesystem I saw was NTFS. It is only a small upgrade from XP. I will say that they seem to be starting to catch up to Linux. This Windows OS might be actually useful in a few years.
the version which leave is a pre – alpha so u cannot expect to see lots of features ported into it……
Or maybe Butchered Bovine (-;
I would tend to agree with those saying the features that have been hyped thus far (but apparently won’t be delivered in Longhorn) represent an enormous opportunity for the open source community. Well, and pretty much anyone else.
This isn’t because people are necessarily going to be disappointed with Longhorn. Indeed, I think as long as MS doesn’t deliver less than XP customers will buy the upgrade.
However, all the hype about WinFS and such has benefitted the open source world tremendously if Microsoft plans to abandon those things for a Longhorn release. It’s created discussion in the massive Windows developer community. It’s gotten people thinking quite a bit about how such a thing would work, and how they’d use it to create compelling new apps.
This gives OSS free R&D on how to implement such features for themselves, and it creates a desire for such features in the eyes of application developers. Some of those developers might just be willing to switch to an operating system that lets them realize their ideas.
I think groups like the KDE development team, the Gnome team, Apple, etc. could have beaten Microsoft to the punch on this even if MS included it in a 2006 Longhorn. However, if those features won’t even make it in until the successor to Longhorn…
Well, the potential is huge.
“The new media player software lets online music stores — including one that Microsoft plans to launch later this year — snap right into the design, so that users can easily buy music from inside the player application.”
Hmmm…can you say “iTunes?”
What they do need is a more advanced method of identifying file types than just looking at a few characters at the end of the file name. Of course, coding that would be hard work.
How about ‘file’. Nautilus used to do something like that I think. Or with some filesystems: echo /Directory/File/mime-type
They already have a great OS on their hands. If it takes a long time to create something truely innovative and ambitious, so be it!
Innovative? Like these feature don’t exist in other OS’s already…
I would rather have secure OS than a rushed OS, that is why I use linux also.
The big question I have regarding Longhorn is not what features it will or won’t include, but rather whether or not it will run on current 32-bit processors such as the Pentium 4 and Athlon XP. I would hate to think that Microsoft would force everyone to upgrade to a 64-bit processor just to run their newest OS! But then again…
Who knows?