Anandtech has a review of the Mac Mini and Ars has a useful guide for it.
Anandtech.com reviews the Mac Mini
About The Author
Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
Follow me on Twitter @EugeniaLoli
I read the review yesterday, and I must say it is very nice and thorough. If you only want to read one review, read that one. Most of the other reviews are just copy and paste jobs of press releases.
The comparison above was set up very deliberately to focus on hardware alone, ignoring things like software differences and form factor differences.
The moment i hit this line, i knew the whole reviewis severely screwed and tottally ignoring the actual selling points of the mini or Macs in general …
oops, take that back, premature critisism, the whole review is not based on that assumption
IMHO, the mac mini is the best looking computer available today. Thumbs up for apple. I’m currently thinking of buying one myself. Of course, there’re always a few windows programs which don’t have a mac counterpart. E.g, I’ve read that it is very difficult to connect your Garmin GPS with your mac…
Nevertheless, I wish Apple good luck with the Mac Mini!
I agree that OS X and the other OSs do not differ (so much) on the aspects you mentioned — well, of course, with the exception of security. You don’t really want to claim that XP is as secure as OS X or Linux?
You also conveniently forgot to mention the soft factors like “GUI ergonomics”, ‘consistency of the GUI” or how you want to call it.
If you factor this in, your last line becomes ridiculous. Some OSs make it quite easy to “mess everything up” for dumb users, and others don’t. That’s one of the things I love about OS X: it allows me to be a “dumb user” without running into problems.
and how am I a mac zealot, despite using xp as my main computer? because I can recognize why people buy Macs?
OSX nothing better than XP eh? except that it’s a better user experience due to pratically no malware, virsues or worms in the wild. The fact that the UI is more pleasant to people who just want to get the work done, with its big gogeous icons and beautiful widgets. Or how about the fact it has easy to use programs bundled like the iLife suite. How about the careful attention to details, for eg, the exclamation mark in the printers pull down list wen in the print dialog and a printer is not connected or the fact that the audio recorder dialog box automatically updates when a new input device is plugged in.
The OSX is a much more pleasant environment to do causal or business work in than XP. Speaking as almost exclusive PC user, i wish i have a mac.
Case in point, my parents run a training business. They used to use a PC, but got put off using the computer altogether and preferred to use the good old pen and paper. That’s bcos the PC crashed every once a week, viruses corrputed stuff, slowed down the computer, and things were just so hard to do, bcos the GUI was so so “computer-like”. Using the computer was like a burden they needed to learn to use.
Then they got the tablelamp iMac. How everything changed! They really started to get productive because they were spending more time doing stuff instead of learning how to use the damn computer. Email is natural, they’re converting audio tapes into CD, they’re burning CDs and DVDs, they’re downloading and organizing all their photos in iPhoto and shuffling thousands of documenst they work with everyday through the easy to use Finder.
You can try to justify the winXP (which i am still forced to use unfortunately, tho it may change with this Mac mini), but OSX has truly changed my parents from computer phobics into cutting edge proffesionals in their field. Incidentally, their business has also boomed due to the new audio video and literature resources authored through the iMac. To them, the Mac was a wonderful investment.
The main reason to own a Mac is OS X. While it is nice, that is secure and stable, the best part of it is the usability. It is logically structured and intutive. Most programs adhere closely to the Apple Human Interface guidelines. So you get to know programs much quicker than on Windows/Linux.
Some things like Drag and Drop installation of programs is just great. To uninstall just drag the program to the trash and you’re done with uninstalling.
And then there are the other cool things like Exposé and an Open GL accelerated eye candy interface. Or built in system wide spell checking for all Cocoa applications in more than 10 languages. You can easily switch between languages by hitting Command+: .
The Dell vs. mini comparison stinks!
The Dell has no Firewire and only a CD-ROM Drive so no burning with this one. Add a DVD/CD-R Combo drive and Firewire to the Dell an look at the price again.
Yeah, the mini still lacks keayborad, mouse and display to the mac.
Software is not compared either.
Again an Apple and Oranges comparison. :/ It is just pointless. No meaning at all.
The computer of dell that anandetch is refering to seems to be the dell 3000, which costs 549 before the 50$ rebate, and 499$ after. This machine has a intel integrated extrem graphics 2, but there is no information about a slot to add another card in dell web site. Which slot is it, AGP8x? Because this intel ship is included in the 865G, 865GV and 855 chipsets, and according to intel, those chipsets do not support any connection to a AGP or PCI slot. So how to add a more powerful card in that case, it seems to be imposssible in a dell configuration which is built with this intel integrated graphics. Again dell does not mention any of this possibility.
And just another thing, just keep in mind that the dell solution does not have a firewire port in standart (so you can not connect any camcorder), and it does not support any wireless technology (you can not add it at all), in both cases the mac mini does….
I mean the dell dimension 3000!!!!
After reading all three parts of this series, it seems funny to me to look at the difference in tone. The first article was somewhat negative, but the next 2 were increasingly positive. This seems to mirror a lot of people’s experiences with Apple, including my own. The longer you are around OS X the more natural it becomes. Blah Blah Blah, you can get PC hardware cheaper. So what? The individual component specs are not as important as the final product, and the work that I can accomplish as a result. Now if only MythTV worked well under OS X, I’d already have a Mini.
To be fair to the Dell, I believe it may have 3 PCI slots. Which means wireless can be installed and so can a PCI video card. I still don’t think that model is a great computer by any stretch of the imagination. Neither in specs nor form factor does it excite.
The Mac mini on the other hand, is very intriguing. I think the basic specs are very acceptable for average use. More RAM would be nice. Of course, more RAM is always nice. The next computer I buy will probably be a Mac mini. Well, new computer anyway.
I am a Mac user who plays with Unix and Linux, so take my comments for whatever they are worth. I’m not a Windows person by any stretch of the imagination. Also, I did not read the article yet, so my points may be superfluous.
Nathan
The Dell vs. mini comparison stinks!
Software is not compared either.
Again an Apple and Oranges comparison. :/ It is just pointless. No meaning at all.
There are multiple pages in the review, you should read them all. They do review the software experience, they report on the out-of-box experience, what it looks like inside…
Again an Apple and Oranges comparison. :/ It is just pointless. No meaning at all.
Not at all, more a $499 and $499 review.I’m serious considering buying a mini because using MacOsX *too* comes more to reality.I don’t actually need OsX to get my things done but i allways wanted to learn that OS as well.I don’t feel the need to justify my reasons at all nore isn’t anyones buiseness i fiddle a little around with assembly language.
To the point,i wish all reviews were so complete and objective,good work.
Preface: i live in Rome, Italy.
From my usual shop http://www.essedi.it
I assebled the following pc:
PC Selecta Personalizzato
– Kit Personal Computer Base x 1 pz.
– KING Plus MidiTower ATX con alim. ATX12V 400W x 1 pz.
– GIGABYTE K8NS Ath64 NForce3 250 2SATARaid LAN x 1 pz.
– AMD Athlon64 3400+ (Socket 754) + ventola x 1 pz.
– Modulo DIMM 512 MB DDR 400Mhz (PC3200) x 1 pz.
– MAXTOR D.MaxPlus 6Y160M0 160GB SATA 8MB x 1 pz.
– Floppy disk drive 3.5″ 1.44 MB x 1 pz.
– SAPPHIRE ATI RAD9550 256M DDR TvOutDVI 8X x 1 pz.
– Assemblaggio e configurazione x 1 pz.
– Collaudo e burn-in test x 1 pz.
593,43 euro.
It completely blow away the miny and the price is similar.
bye bye mac
Ah and please, don’t start with that old novel about osx advantage. Osx has really *nothing* more than XP or a good linux distro. NOTHING. All modern operating systems are reliable and secure, because all have: multitasking, protected memory, multithreading, smp. ALL.
The ony problems are always users that don’t understand nothing of computers and end up messing up everything.
keep telling yourself that enough. it might actually make your incorrect assumptions start to seem true.
And does it run OS X? Actually I don’t see an OS listed. Are you using a legal copy of one? Make sure that you include the price for XP Pro not XP Home. Then include the price for Adobe Photo Album and movie editing software and software to create movie dvd’s too.
After reading some of the comments here and other comments about the mac mini from previous stories I can’t help but be amazed at the amount of ignorance a lot of people show.
I especially like those guys that will start endless flamewars about being able to build something better for less. There is only one answer to that, so what?
It seems like a surpise to some people, but the large majority of computer users don’t want and are probably unable to build their machines themselves. All they want is a computer that works and doesn’t get in their way and the mac mini seems like a perfect solution for this. It’s comes with a good OS, a great selection of software, it looks good, it isn’t intimidating and it isn’t loud.
Honestly, I think Apple has a winner here.
The only thing that really bothers me is that it doesn’t come with enough ram to run smoothly.
I don’t know why people can’t ever just comment on articles instead of resorting to flaming and trolls.
I do think the comparison is a bit lame, though. They should compare some mini-ITX machine, not mid towers and the such. Like the person a few posts up who shows this super fast box which is incomparably bigger… I don’t think the mini is meant to compete with bigger boxes or anything.
The Anand article is well done and though I don’t agree in many places, I agree with most of his findings.
One note where he points out:
http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2328&p=7
“There are two solutions to the Office problem, either purchase Microsoft Office 2004 (or an earlier version) for Mac OS X, or purchase iWork ’05, which is significantly cheaper at $79.”
This is sort of true. As he points out repeatedly for Macs, you can get edu prices or versions. MS Office 2004 has a version for edu that is $149 at full retail and is regularly on sale for as little as $109. Its $128 here: http://www.thenerds.net/productpage.asp?un=308180&s=6
and it allows installation on 3 Macs. iWork doesn’t come close to the feature set of Office nor does it allow you 3 licenses. So keep that in mind if you are in an edu environment or have kids in school etc.
Hasn’t anyone considered that a free program, OpenOffice, is available and will read and write MS Office files. Gimp (say Photoshop) is available free as well as Scribis (think InDesign). There are others but one can get by quite nicely without having to spend money on these applications. And, yes, I know that they are not the ‘REAL’ thing but they perform quite adequately. And you can put them on all the Macs you own and also your friends and neighbors.
I found it to be a good and fair review.
Though slightly biased towards the PC Mindset, that’s fine… Since many people believe the Mac Mini is aimed towards the PC Crowd.
@schwarzy
Playing the “I know you are, but what am I” game, doesn’t put you in a good light.
The empirical truth, through surveys of users is that after using it for awhile, people PREFER MacOS X to Windows XP.
It works better. It’s faster. It’s cleaner. It looks nicer. It’s easier to figure out. It doesn’t get nailed by viruses and spyware.
Those are ALL meaningful advantages. Advantages that make MacOS X better than Windows.
Does that mean Windows XP is crap? Nope.
I’m using it now. I use it EVERY day.
Windows XP is a fine OS. More than good enough for most people.
It just has some things that a user has to deal with.
It has a steeper learning curve than MacOS X.
You have to be careful of getting Viruses and Spyware (20 – 30 mins unprotected on the Net will do it…).
You have to use Browser and Mail applications OTHER than the ones provided in the OS in order to have better security.
And that’s all…
No need for your EGO to be tied up in this.
You made a fine decision in buying whatever PC you own. You already know it’s a good decision because you get your work done, and your play done, and whatever else you do with your PC.
That I own a Saturn, and a BMW is a better car… Does not engage my ego. I bought a Saturn for MANY reasons. And it’s a fine car.
That a BMW or a Volvo are better cars… Doesn’t make me feel bad.
My Saturn works fine. I just live without a leather and woodgrained interior, and all the other options that set these cars above my spartan little Saturn.
It gets me where I want to go, cheaply!
Job well done Saturn!
Dunno about you, but my Saturn also gets 44mpg on the highway (96SL). Alas, Saturn didn’t maintain that high level of performance.
@schwarzy
593€ is not a price comparable to the Mac Mini, not when 1€=$1.30. That said, I’d buy the Mac Mini even if it were a comparable price, because I want a Mac experience, not a Windows experience. I type this from my iBook.
Anyway, it’s one of the best, most comprehensive reviews I’ve read. I had been wondering about iWork, and now I’ve got solid information about how it works. These articles from Anandtech are excellent.
BTW, to clarify the above: 593€ is about $775 on the current markets.
Have you even considered the fact that OpenOffice really sucks on the mac? You can’t give that to any normal user. Though I have to admit that AbiWord on the Mac is becoming nicer and nicer.
With this review it is finally clear that Apple has been wildly successful in switching the most visible and ardent PC user. Remember that AnandTech is/was all about specs and speed i.e., hardware. This review is about experience. Anand gets Mac Os now and is able to articulate the advantages of Mac Os better than any Mac fan. I like the tone of the article. It is very neutral-it puts all other articles, including the ones on Osnews, which frequently are designed to get the Mac and PC users riled up and to go at each others throats, to shame.
Re: Open office. Although one can run many open source programs via Fink and X11 those programs look jarring in Os X. I tried it for the fun of it and then stopped using X11 based applications. MS Office is slow and buggy on Os X and is also buggy in Windows. I myself prefer AppleWorks especially for its ability to handle graphics and text easily (AppleWorks will not decide suddenly that the graphics should go to the end of the next page or disappear altogether). Now Pages seems even better than AppleWorks in this regard. The only thing going for Word is its integration with Endnote.
Cheers
Computers: PowerBook G4 with Os X and IBM ThinkPad with XP professional.
While Open Office is a decent app, it does feel VERY out of place on OS X. GIMP and Scribis are not even close though. There is a reason Photoshop and InDesign are at the top of their fields.
Prices in EU are a far away from normal, in Poland thats $705. Availability 21 days, so we cant be happy about the new Apple product. Its simply to expensive here.
I don’t know about anyone one else, but I find all this price comparison boring as hell. All this reviewers comparing Mac Mini to Dell and other cheap PCs. Who cares any more. If there both so cheap by both for around $1000. Personal I would never buy a cheap PC, but a cheap Mac Mini sounds good kids. The PC would end up costing more after anti virus software and what not.
I just got my Mac Mini and it’s acutally the first Mac I’ve ever owned. After a few hours I was navigating around pretty well and had most stuff figured out. Now, as for a comparison to a PC, it’s not easy. There simply isn’t anything out there that matches the Mini as a whole. Any PC of comparable size is at least 2 or 3 times the price. Then there’s the software too. An Apple should be reviewed as a whole: the software, hardware, and OS because that’s how its meant to be. It comes like that out of the box. With an XP machine, you get different software from all the manufacturers. Consistency is the key here. That being said, I agree completely that the 512MB of ram is necessary. 256MB just isn’t enough and I would consider the 256MB Mini to be a crippled machine from the get-go.
>593€ is not a price comparable to the Mac Mini, not when
>1€=$1.30. That said, I’d buy the Mac Mini even if it were a
Basic model (without any options) of Mac Mini costs 499€ (which is about 650$) in Italy: http://store.apple.com/Apple/WebObjects/italystore/
Basically, Apple prices in EU compared to US suck. In my country (Poland) Apple sucks even more – they don’t have localized version of software! There is no Polish version of MacOS X – Windows, Linux (Gnome & KDE), even such “exotic” operating system as Zeta – they are all available in translated versions. Apple doesn’t have even 1% of marketshare here, and I’m not surprised.
Osx has really *nothing* more than XP or a good linux distro. NOTHING.
Now, Schwarzy, sugar, ‘t ain’t so much what OS X has more than Win XP or Linux, ‘t is what they’re doing with it.
But please don’t take my word for it darling, you just keep swimming in the big pond.
‘Live like you wanna live, baby’, Chuck Berry.
As for the article, Anand’s attitude shows a real evolution. He’s sceptical at first but he wants to give the experience an honest chance. This speaks very highly for his integrity in honestly assessing pros and cons. It makes me want to read more of his reviews.
Later you see that his attitude changes dramatically. You don’t read hurrah and yay in his reviews, but he’s telling us he’s been using his Macs [several] for months[!]. Nobody who thinks their user experience is the sux0rs is putting themselves through months of suffering, just for a review. Anand is now driving a Mac.
What he demonstrates is that the price of the components is but one factor. What is mostly ignored here is that the price of the components is a poor metric. It very much seems like the self-built PCs have their low-low price going for them but not too much more.
Apple and OS X have an advantage that goes far deeper than the mere sticker price: the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. You do not just buy a computer and an OS. You buy an experience. From Anand’s review, and that of other PC reviewers, a serious case can be made for the fact that the Mac happens to be a rather pleasant experience.
That’s not to say that everything is roses and blooms. Mini IS a slower machine, that’s what it is. 256Mb of RAM IS not enough. Anand does not hide this and he’s right about it. But what I take away from this review series is that a man who was very sceptical about the Mac and OS X has learned to appreciate the many good things about it that make it a great experience for the everyday user.
I get a lot of use out of my Mac. The couple of hundred bucks I spend more than I would have spent buying a PC don’t compare to the great experience that extra bit of money bought me.
Anandtech’s review is probably the best review-from-the-eyes-of-a-Windows-user of a Mac I’ve ever read. It’s thorough, thoughtful, and informative and he gives Apple an ample chance to impress him. He’s honest about the Mac Mini’s memory issue and other problems. I think many people who post on OSNews about their favorite OS/Distro could learn a thing or two from reading this. Heck, I think certain world leaders could learn from the open-minded approach to contentious issues Anand displays in the article.
In response to the review, I think I may actually pass over the Mini for myself (though recommend it to less technical friends) and purchase a lower end G5 at some point in the near future (with a student discount of course).
I find it funny that people just assume that <fill in the blank> blank operating system is more secure to viruses and spyware. In fact it seems as though most OS X users (at least the ones I have run into) are under the belief that they are immune and do not invest in virus scanners etc.
The main reason 95% (or whatever the actual number is) of viruses are targeted at the windows family of operating systems is because 95% of computers are currently running those operating systems.
If macs continue to increase their marketshare then more and more viruses will be written to exploit os x. Every complex piece of software has bugs and security exploits, just because you don’t hear about them on a day to day basis does not mean they are not there! Switching to use a mac to avoid viruses and spyware is just security by obscurity. If apple keeps doing well and gains marketshare that obscurity will soon fade.
“593€ is not a price comparable to the Mac Mini, not when 1€=$1.30. That said, I’d buy the Mac Mini even if it were a comparable price, because I want a Mac experience, not a Windows experience. I type this from my iBook.”
Who cares about “mac experience”? A good computer must be as fast as possible and reliable. With pc i have both of them because i’m using amd64 with linux. And for any program that doesnt have a linux counterpart, i’m using xp. And xp (must repeat myself) has absolutely *nothing* less than osx. NOTHING. NOTHING.NOTHING. I hope it’s clear now
And please stop onec and for all with this crap of windows being insecure. My main pc at work is an old athlon 1200 with just 512 mega ram, but xp is quite fast on it and I didnt have a single secuity problem since 2002. And no BSOD or whatever. The only problem with insecurity is that too many people use PCs without knowing anithing of it. In my opinion, dumb users shouldn’t use a computer, plain and simple. Example: it takes just a few seconds to install and a ctivate a firewall and an antivirus. Then you’re set. If you don’t know anything of a computer, dont’ use it.
Performance-wise, a homebuit pc simply blows away the mini for the same price (BTW the mini in italy costs 599 euro, so the price comparison is more than valid). And ok, the pc is bigger, so what? I have enough space in my home so that i can simply ignore the “design factor” (the only selling points for macs).
There are more than two solutions to the office problem.
Koffice has been ported to cocoa already you can get it from Darwinports…
KWord is an excellent word processor and the whole office suite is excellent but unfortunately highly overlooked.
So if you just need casual word processing spreadsheets, koffice might be the deal (because it comes for free)
If macs continue to increase their marketshare then more and more viruses will be written to exploit os x.
You don’t know that. We don’t live in a world where a vast number of OS X machines are permanently connected to the internet. Thus, you can’t assume what holds true for Windows will hold true for OS X (or Linux for that matter). ‘Security through obscurity’ sounds nice (it rhymes) and basically makes sense (it’s logical), but it’s largely unproven. The best answer to ‘security through obscurity’ is to examine how well something like the exremely popular Apache webserver does in the real world. I think it does pretty well for itself, no?
Koffice still depends on X11. Look at the dependencies that are listed. XFree86 is one of them. So no, it’s not a serious option for OS X.
Abiword is though since it look better with every release. The same can be said for NeoOffice/J.
And xp (must repeat myself) has absolutely *nothing* less than osx. NOTHING. NOTHING.NOTHING. I hope it’s clear now
It’s kinda amusing (or sad) how some people with Windows or Linux PCs will get all bent out of shape with respect to Apple’s cheapest consumer desktop. It’s as if they’re personally offended by the concept that OS X might be a better OS or the hardware might be higher quality (if not necessarily faster). To anyone reading who feels the need to post a long, drawn out response to this review by citing why Linux or Windows ought to be enough for anyone (with enough brains!!11), I sincerely suggest you learn to relax and approach things with an open mind.
By the way, I’ve only ever owned PCs and I use Linux full-time. And yet, I may still buy a Apple Mac at some point in the future.
Depends on the needs on what defines a new computer.
Some people want silent machines, some need machines which can be run 24/7 without too much energy consumption, some people need both, and some people simply want power….
You cannot say that a good computer only needs a lot of horsepower…
“Who cares about “mac experience”? A good computer must be as fast as possible and reliable.”
Believe it or not, the mac experience I’ve had is a lot better than my windows experience. I care. I would guess that most people who use their computers CARE about their experience with it… either it’s easy to use or fustrating. I prefer the ‘easy to use’.
As for a computer NEEDING to be as fast as possible, I would disagree. There is a reason I don’t buy the top of the line AMD 4+ gz. chips… COST. I prefer to buy a machine that gives me a decent speed for my money… more midrange. I got SO burned by buying top of the line video cards for 350$ when a 200$ was just a good performance wise (like 2-3 fps) really matters. To each his own.
“And xp (must repeat myself) has absolutely *nothing* less than osx. NOTHING. NOTHING.NOTHING. I hope it’s clear now
“.
XP is the best Windows OS they make. It IS a good and solid OS.
“The only problem with insecurity is that too many people use PCs without knowing anithing of it.”
Here is where I have a problem. Here’s where Apple shines. They believe that people who don’t know anything about security can actually HAVE a secure machine… by DEFAULT. Why should my parents be worried about firewalls, virus scanners, bla, bla… Even I don’t want to be bothered with this stuff. The OS handles most of this for me… much better than XP does, BTW.
“In my opinion, dumb users shouldn’t use a computer, plain and simple.”
Ah… there’s where it is. That’s the trouble. Like I said above, Apple believes that they can make a computer and operating system that novice computer users can be productive with… and experts can be extremely productive with. Why is this BAD? Haha.
“Performance-wise, a homebuit pc simply blows away the mini for the same price”
And your point is?…
“I have enough space in my home so that i can simply ignore the “design factor” (the only selling points for macs).”
What? Design factor the ONLY selling point for Macs? Hardly. Go back and read the review. Follow the link in the article… It’s the one up there… at the top. You must not have seen it before.
“And ok, the pc is bigger, so what? I have enough space in my home so that i can simply ignore the “design factor” (the only selling points for macs).”
I believe you in a moment. That house of yours must have lots of room when you don’t have any ‘design’ in it. Just walls, something to sit on and to lay in (I’ve problably forgotten some things).
Actually, you have room for a 100-cluster. Lucky you.
These computer holy wars crack me up.
The Linux fan boys bash the Mac as insignificant and we all know their utter disdain for anything from Microsoft (or M$ as some of the really clever ones use instead).
The Mac zealots relish their elitist status and enjoy looking down at the poor Windows users and their clumsy, bug ridden OS or the little OS that could in Linux.
The PC crowd bashes the Mac as overpriced, under powered and having no software, or Linux as too hard to use with no software.
There is no right or wrong answer. A computer is a tool. Use the tool that best fits your lifestyle, needs and budget. Your tool of choice will not work for everyone else.
You don’t know that. We don’t live in a world where a vast number of OS X machines are permanently connected to the internet. Thus, you can’t assume what holds true for Windows will hold true for OS X (or Linux for that matter). ‘Security through obscurity’ sounds nice (it rhymes) and basically makes sense (it’s logical), but it’s largely unproven. The best answer to ‘security through obscurity’ is to examine how well something like the exremely popular Apache webserver does in the real world. I think it does pretty well for itself, no?
You are correct everything I said is theoretical, but it would be naive to think if OS X or linux takes off in a serious way in the business or even just home user markets it will not happen to them. People exploit security holes and are not going to just stop because its not windows.
I am not saying security by obscurity is good, bad or indifferent. Obviously the apache webserver has taken a different approach (its open source compared to OS X or Windows) so the code (and any potential exploits) are in plain view of everybody (good or bad intentions). So I don’t really think thats relevant to what I was saying.
Right on! Stop the bashing! Some people only express their honest opinions, which is fine. Howhever, there is a long way between bashing and expressing an opinion. I can’t understand how people compare Mac Mini to the cheapest PC they can find… it doesn’t make any sense… There are many pro’s the Mac Mini has that you can’t find within that price range, you just can’t.
…AnandTech’s series of Mac articles is great. I use XP at work, BeOS, Mac OS X and Ubuntu Linux at home. While working from home (blessed to be able to do that 2 days/wk) I tunnel into work via my Mac.
I find something to like about every operating system and have found that they all have their strengths and weaknesses. Even BeOS does.
But when it comes to the combination of Apple hardware and the OS X… it’s like driving around in a Ferrari instead of the family sedan. Not because of the speed (which in some cases is lacking compared to some of my home-made PC’s) but because of the entire package. Solid, dependable, attractive hardware coupled with and rivaled by the operating system. Using a Mac is an “experience”.
I think AnandTech is beginning to realize what the Mac “experience” is… For the naysayers out there, you need to open up a bit and try one for a few months. I’m not trying to “switch” you, but I think you might begin to understand the Apple faithfuls/zealots.
Btw, 2000/XP are the best (imho) versions of Windows to come out and I never see any problems (crashing-types of problems) with them. I also have learned to perform basic maintenance on a somewhat regular basis (clean the registry out, defrag my disks, clean up log files and caches, etc.) and my machine’s performance does not degrade.
Mac OS X can also be hampered over time, especially when you start to go crazy and install all these little apps (for instance I load my machine down with Unsanity products) which affect things like application startup time, and do eat a little of your cpu and memory…
BeOS, as nearly perfect as it is, is aging aging aging and it is hard to do all the things you want to do with it.
Ubuntu? Hot stuff! Can’t wait for the next released version. But it too can be dragged down if one isn’t careful of what services are started at boot, and what kind of software you install (the open source/freeware world has a bajillion apps, varying greatly in quality with lots of eye candy).
Btw, I am a programmer and most of my work is done on Windows and Linux. I’ve programmed on Mac OS X and BeOS as well. (Don’t know why I added that, just a little more about my background I guess).
Mike
When you first buy and Apple computer you don’t feel as if you bought a computer but a well made computing appliance that does it’s job.
Th problem here on OSNews and most PC sites is that they compare a Apple product like a PowerBook and Mac mini like a computer, with performance specs and such. The way anand describes the first impression of the Mini is exactly how I felt unwrapping my powerbook. “This thing feels like I am unwrapping a DVD Player or a Highend Audio device, no a computer”.
That essence is what the PC part of the world does not get and will prbably never get. No one cares what cpu is in a DVD player or Tivo, it just works and we use it. Apple is doing that with computers. Microsoft has been trying to duplicate that for more than 2 decades, with Bob, Media center PCs, Office assistants, but they still haven’t been able to do it as effectively and elegantly as Apple has in just 4 may be 5 years. Kudos.
This is refreshing, some Minis actually come with a 5400RPM drive. drsmithy’s premature assumption seems to be grossly incorrect, as usual. Always passing off opinions as fact, sigh. The 5400 RPM drive with the platter density of an 80 GB drive should make for an acceptable drive for most users, unless you are running a webserver off the mini and it gets slashdoted:)
Also the choice for the formfactor seems reasonable. The damn thing is small, look at the iPod mini comparison shot.
Although it uses desktop memory, the Mac mini uses a 2.5″ notebook hard drive. The base $499 version comes with a 40GB drive and the $599 version comes with a 80GB drive. What is surprising, however, is that some units appear to come with Seagate’s 5400RPM Momentus ST94011A drive, including the unit reviewed here today. The 5400RPM drive is fairly snappy for a 2.5″ drive. It’s still much, much slower than a 3.5″ desktop drive, but it’s a nice surprise to see a 5400RPM drive used in the mini. We have been getting reports of some units coming with 4200RPM drives, however. Right now, it seems to be a luck of the draw as to which drive you get.
other Mac Mini sites!
http://www.123macmini.com/
http://www.macminiforums.com/
http://www.byodkm.net/
Wait I make the Pocketpc
Bill Gates
Although I really like the Anandtech article, but the Mac Mini Dell comparison most reviewers do (and lots of comments here do) is totally idiotic, those machines are not even closley comparable.
The Mac Mini is a totally different league of computer, it basically is a small formfactor silent PC, you cannot get a decent one of those machines on the Wintel side of things below 700 USD, and if you need around the same performance, you have to go Centrino where things really become expensive…
I think this article really hit the nail on the head.
http://librenix.com/?inode=5944
I already know a buch of people which bought the Mac Mini exactly for this reason (me included), a perfect machine for a home server appliance, small quiet, low power consumption good processor, and basically the cheapest one of its formfactor-class and that from a quality company.
“And please stop onec and for all with this crap of windows being insecure. My main pc at work is an old athlon 1200 with just 512 mega ram, but xp is quite fast on it and I didnt have a single secuity problem since 2002.”
My test machine sat connected to the network because it has to get some stuff from the other side of the planet, which I route through my main machine.
I had not surfed the net with it, I had not downloaded anything whatsoever, I had not installed any software except project stuff. The system administrator calls me to tell me my test box is overloading the log file with outgoing packets. Oopsie.
That’s from just sitting there on an open connection. No decision making on my part, no connecting to insecure places. The virus check on my main machine revealed nothing in the way of virii or malware.
Doing nothing, my test machine is infected. You have to wonder how many people out there, connected to the net, have no idea what happens to their machine.
Scary thought.
Can I ask why the people who can build their own machine for half the price of a Mac don’t bother to pitch in to make their favorite platform [if that happens to be a Windows machine] as secure as they can make it?
The reason why I hate mac is on the hardware level, you just can’t go anywhere and buy that certain part from the vendor slap her in and expect it to work beside the memory. You’re dvd burners yes I know sony and pioneer have a working model that needs a patch.
We need a Mac for the gamer talking about something that has 2 gigs of ram a Geforce 6800 Ultra pcix, a nice 7.1 DTS DD hardware sound card. You know the good queality stuff that lasts alot of years.
On the other hand I can’t blame the game developers for not porting to Mac or Linux there great titles. It’s their choice after all.
What I see here is 3 os for 3 different purposes. Something has to be done about it and soon. I know you’re gonna say “the market and the end users this,”
but in the end of it. It should be us telling them what we want and them not telling us what will get and we better like it. After all its our money been blown away to these corporations.
Preface: i live in Rome, Italy.
From my usual shop http://www.essedi.it
I assebled the following pc:
PC Selecta Personalizzato
– Kit Personal Computer Base x 1 pz.
– KING Plus MidiTower ATX con alim. ATX12V 400W x 1 pz.
– GIGABYTE K8NS Ath64 NForce3 250 2SATARaid LAN x 1 pz.
– AMD Athlon64 3400+ (Socket 754) + ventola x 1 pz.
– Modulo DIMM 512 MB DDR 400Mhz (PC3200) x 1 pz.
– MAXTOR D.MaxPlus 6Y160M0 160GB SATA 8MB x 1 pz.
– Floppy disk drive 3.5″ 1.44 MB x 1 pz.
– SAPPHIRE ATI RAD9550 256M DDR TvOutDVI 8X x 1 pz.
– Assemblaggio e configurazione x 1 pz.
– Collaudo e burn-in test x 1 pz.
593,43 euro.
It completely blow away the miny and the price is similar.
bye bye mac
I’m afraid you didn’t read the the article or just missed the point.I allready have 4 PC’s,FreeBSD,Debian,Gentoo,XP-prof(all 512 DDR > and > athlon-XP > ,fastest is a AMD 4000+ clawhammer.I just would like to learn MacOsX and don’t need a substitute for everything i allready can in a outstanding way.As the author stated the mini doesn’t perform badly with at least 512 DDR and only isn’t exactly what you want to use when seriously authoring dvd’s and other heavy image related editing.For me and other OS enthusiasts alike the mini is not much to get aquainted with an other OS.
Perhaps the article writer should have omitted the dell comparison.The rest is in my opinion still exellent and complete,far above average.
Just like with the new iMac people are bashing the mini because of things like a line in or upgradeability. The machines are designed to not be the most upgradeable machines. If you want to be able to upgrade, the mini is not being marketed to you, buy something else and stop bashing it for something it was never intended to be. And for those who aren’t happy about the short list of compatible hardware for macs, Apple intentionally designed macs that way. They want to be able to have verified components in macs and avoid whats going on in x86 world, ie. incompatible drivers, device conflicts, BSODs, etc. If Apple keeps the hardware compat. list short, they can guarantee that a mac will work 100% with that hardware.
I found the review very well done and covered just about all you could expect. I especially appreciate the tip about RAM, of which being a non-Mac non-OSX user I was not aware.
One of the best comments I’ve read (either here or at /. don’t recall which) is this: “think of the Mac mini as a great set of software tools with a free Mac thrown in!”
To get software of equivalent quality and functionality as the iLife suite and the other Mac software included with the mini, you would easily exceed US$499 on a Windows system. On a Linux system you’d be very hard pressed to find anything comparable or as useable. I speak from years of experience on both Windows (audio and photo editing) and Linux. I own more than US$2000 worth of midi, audio and graphics software for Windows, all of which does little that can’t be done with iPhoto and Garageband! On the Linux side, GIMP, ALSA etc are so far below the quality of iLife suite in terms of useability, that they aren’t on the same graph. Sad, but true. Maybe someday, but not now.
The Mac mini may be trailing edge hardware. But it is certainly leading edge software. As the cost of entry to OSX and the iSuite software, it stacks up well in my opinion1
Can anyone tell me if it’s possible to increase the video ram from 32 to 64 mb on the built-in video? With a soldering iron, perhaps?
The review makes it sound as though video memory is already tight with higher resolutions (not that 1280×900-odd is that high…) and if Tiger will increase the video ram usage, that makes me worry.
I mean, I don’t want to buy the mac and then miss out on the GUI flashiness!
I’m a full time Linux user at home and at work, but I could still have one of those just to play with. Maybe it could be an excellent kitchen PC. The needed 1000€ is a bit much though for a “fun” machine, but maybe they get cheaper with time (yes, you of course need a screen and a keyboard/mouse too, which adds up).
Developing for OS X is supposed to be fun and easy, would really be fun to try out.
Will your homebuilt run OS X?
It really doesn’t matter about specs, so much as how everything works together.
You could have a car, with more horsepower, that cost less than mine, but does that make it a better car? No!
You could have a car, with less horsepower, that cost more than mine, but does that make it a better car? No!
Will it beat my car in a race? Maybe?
If your’s makes the same horsepower, but your driveline has a weak link, or is not dialed in, and mine is, you’ll probably lose.(Mac’s have a dialed in driveline)
As for the mini, I don’t think you can find a better user experience, for less money.
Your machine may be faster, have more games, more software,blah blah blah……….., but it still won’t run OS X, which has proven itself, over and over again, to be a rock solid OS, that runs on slower, (to you), more expensive, (to you), hardware, which is also rock solid, and looks good, that many like yourself, cannot, or will not, justify.
To me, big numbers, low prices, and benchmarks, don’t mean squat!
Most of it is hype, and has little to do with the end result.
I would rather see optimized software, than a bunch of cheap 3+ ghz Easybake ovens.
Either way you’re on a constant upgrede pattern, except one is more environmentally friendly, and ultimately cheaper in the end.
Anybody who buys a mini, is looking at minimum 5 years of virtually trouble free service, if they don’t get a bad one, drop it, or have their expectations set too high to begin with.
Less than $100.00 a year, to own and maintain a computer, is peanuts.
For the average user, the mini is an inexpensive, no headaches solution, to a lot of problems.
One of their problems, is guys like you, who work in computer shops, who have a personal interest, (money), dropping all kinds of part numbers, and computer jargon on them all the time, confusing them, making them feel inferior, and selling them a pile of add on crap they will never use, while making them believe, that you saved them a pile of money!
Ever hear this line before?
“And for only a few dollars more, you can get this installed in your new computer.
It also comes factory loaded with Microsofts XP Home Edition, but for a bit more money, we can load XP Pro on it, which is the most powerful OS that we sell, and we’ll even burn you a copy of the OS onto a disk, no charge, and that will be a gift to you, from us.”
Snake Oil Salesman!
It’s probably possible.
They solder it in to avoid problems that may occur.
You should hold off on the soldering iron, until someone posts a swap on the net somewhere.
Probably take a week or two?
I think I read somewhere, (maybe osnews), but don’t quote me, that you could break it open, replace things, and not void the warranty, as long as you didn’t mess up anything while doing it.
Maybe this applies to the vid card to?
There will always be people who just have to do it, if by sheer stupidity alone. Some people are just always going to be like that and there is nothing you can do to change it. Just laugh at their expense and enjoy the show.