“Microsoft is planning what could end up being quite a shock for the Windows XP warez world, and what currently looks to be one of the most amazing moves made by Microsoft since Windows Product Activation was introduced. Currently, Microsoft is in the works of completely rewriting the algorithm for the way Windows XP Corporate keys are generated, and is rewriting the code for Windows XP to recognize this new algorithm. This new code will be an added ‘feature’ of Service Pack 1 due out later this year.” Read the report at BetaONE.
Microsoft Battles Warez – Rewrites WPA Algorithm
About The Author
Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
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hah, after stealing win95, win98, win98se, winme, win2k and winxp, i’m glad i just got a mac. it looks like if i hadn’t, my days of ripping MS off would soon be over.
They don’t realise that piracy makes their world go round… Hell I don’t know a single person besides myself who has paid for a M$ product.
I really thought that 90% of the profits came from shady OEM deals and major business partners, then again, I’m one of them hippi Linux users.
Now people might have to wait an extra day before a crack or a ripped version of XP becomes available on the Internet. Someone better clue them in that there cannot be a version of Windows that cannot be pirated. It’s technically impossible. And the broad usage of the software makes sure that the crack is out fast, probably before you can download the service pack. This is all so useless.
The day MS manages to make “warezing” their software impossible, will be a happy day for me!
I doubt though, that it will ever happen.
They probably are going to spend months trying to make it “unbreakable,” and pay the programmers doing it tens of thousands of dollars in that time.
And how long will it take a cracker to make a new key generator? A few hours or days perhaps?
Any-piracy schemes almost inevitably end up annoying legitimate more than the software pirates.
The piracy was annoying in 80s because it was hardware based. The protection scheme now are software only and, of course, all breakable.
This is another reason why M$ is foaming at the mouth with the hope that palladium is adopted. So they can force everyone to use, pay for, and in their hopes, rent their software.
It’ll make me look for Lycoris and/or Gentoo quicker than I thought.
Remember: competitive advantage = perceived value – perceived costs.
The value of MS products is HUGE to many people, whatever their technical merits (which, to me, are great too btw). The only way to lower the CA of MS Win* is to raise the perceived costs. Only them can do that. And that’s what they’re doing. Great, they’re shooting themselves in the foot. Many people learn computing on Win* platform, cause, well it’s *free* when you pirate it btw. So for that kind of people the AC will become very low in a single move.
Linux flavours now have a lower CA compared to win* due to its lower perceived value, and high costs. Training and support costs, and I mean for the Joe user: they cant have a Linux user supporting them for this and that just like they can ask their neighbour how to do X or Y with win*.
If Linux companies (Lycoris ?) wants to make it on the Desktop, it will have to lower the perceived costs and raise the value. And if MS moves in their direction… fine fine
PS: I wrote good news, but it’s in fact bad news for the consumer. It’s good news for Linux on the desktop!
“PS: I wrote good news, but it’s in fact bad news for the consumer. It’s good news for Linux on the desktop!”
Which in turn would be good news for the consumer because MS would have to lower their prices and/or increase their products quality to compete.
But IMO it’s much more likely that they will never really wipe out piracy. Not even a little bit.
Because it’s all the fault of people who pay for software that the software is crap. Heh heh.
This new copy protection scheme will be as useless as all the other math-function keys and dongles have been. There are too many cracking kids out there that thrive on breaking this stuff and handing out the loot to others who will actually use it.
More power to them, too. Software sucks. But piracy wont fix the problem either.
>>They don’t realise that piracy makes their world go round<<
Yes they do. That’s why they allowed it to go on for so long. Don’t you remember the all 1’s license keys?
Now that they have total control of the desktop, with no REAL contenders, they are excersizing that control.
The reality is 95% of the Windows users out there do not have the mental capacity to use Linux, or BeOS, or anything else you can throw, and wouldn’t switch even if they knew an alternative existed – primarily because it doesn’t run the latest and greatest version of AOL. Now of course you could argue that they could use a Mac – but it’s tied to hardware that is at least double in cost to what most users purchase.
Just my .02
If I understand the article right, if you simply install SP1 on top of WindowsXP, you’re in the clear.
But if you ‘slipstream’ SPI into the WinXP install, taht’s when you run into problems? What exactly does ‘slipstream’ mean anyway?
I think people will more likely fork 99 Euros for a legit Windows XP disc than bother with a free Linux install that doesn’t run 95% of the software out there (including MS Office, Internet Explorer…) and requires hours of fumbling to get a new driver to work right (if there’s one for the hardware you own). I hate Microsoft as much as the next Linux fan but Windows is not expensive enough to force people to move away from it, even if they have to buy it with real money.
I Just had a great idea why don’t linux hackers try and help Micro$oft find a way to stop people from warezing XP. If people actually had to pay for it they might be more inclined to use open source instead. I think Micro$oft is so greedy they might actually go for it.
To be honest. This just means more and more people are gonna switch to another desktop OS. Not a server OS (Linux etc.) but a desktop OS. So all of us Be users or Atheos users can celebrate M$ work here as this will bring us more ground.
The young devs who don’t wanna pay and are tired of M$ will definitely start switching, and OBOS/Be or Syllable is the only Desktop OS there is which works for the public…
What this means is that people will do what they’ve always done. Wait for a friend that works in the corporate sector gets a copy with a corporate key. It will most likely take less time than even waiting for a crack or workaround.
If anyone remembers, XP was supposed to be “pirate proof” when it came out.
for the leaked beta SP 1 there have been keygens allready …
i don’t use XP cause i think it sux , i stick with my legal 2k and linux …
instead of fighting warez with backdoors and stuff in there own program’s they ‘d better IMPROVE there programs instead of stuffing it up with spyware ….. to bad people keep on stealing soft , but if MS keeps on going this way , soon there ‘ll be nothing left of MS to steel…
btw : if they think they can win a couple of billions of dollars by killing piracy ( which is unfortunatly almost impossible ) , they are so wrong , i don’t think that there are many people that WANT to spend 250 $ to an OS , while they can use an other OS and buy for 200 $ extra Hardware , and besides in the poor countries like china , india , russia , where lots of piracy is , most of the people just CANT affort MS OS’s …. the only thing they do by wasting there time on creating useless , hopeless try’s to stop piracy this way is letting people run to alternative OS’es … this is only a way to let crackers know that there is a brand new chalenge that will keep em bussy for a day or two , lol …
>>To be honest. This just means more and more people are gonna switch to another desktop OS. Not a server OS (Linux etc.) but a desktop OS<<
OK. Let the rest of us know when you get back from CandyLand.
I use os x
I think people will more likely fork 99 Euros for a legit Windows XP disc than bother with a free Linux install that doesn’t run 95% of the software out there (including MS Office, Internet Explorer…)
I think pound for pound, Linux runs much more software than Windows. Did you mean it doesn’t run 95% of the WINDOWS software out there? By the way, I can run and have run both Office and Internet Explorer on my Linux machine using WINE; although I choose not to because Mozilla is better and there are many native office suites. Please get your facts straight.
…and requires hours of fumbling to get a new driver to work right (if there’s one for the hardware you own).
Actually, SuSE (and some other distros) has excellent hardware support. It supported every last hardware item in my machine; some of which is obscure. With Windows I had to use 3 CDs to install third party drivers. SuSE is much easier.
I hate Microsoft as much as the next Linux fan but Windows is not expensive enough to force people to move away from it, even if they have to buy it with real money.
Perhaps. What I think is much more likely though is people will just use their old pirated versions of Windows and never buy the new junk.
To be honest. This just means more and more people are gonna switch to another desktop OS. Not a server OS (Linux etc.) but a desktop OS. So all of us Be users or Atheos users can celebrate M$ work here as this will bring us more ground.
The young devs who don’t wanna pay and are tired of M$ will definitely start switching, and OBOS/Be or Syllable is the only Desktop OS there is which works for the public…
An adroit assessment with only two flaws.
1) BeOS, Atheos, Syllable, OBOS, etc. are all either dead, or they lack the applications to support their becoming widely used.
2) BeOS, Atheos, Syllable, OBOS, etc. are all either dead, or they lack the applications to support their becoming widely used.
While these two items are technically the same flaw, I feel that the magnitude is great enough to warrant listing it twice.
“I think pound for pound, Linux runs much more software than Windows.”
I agree. Sure Windows is better for things like internet, office productivity, etc, but for the average joe that needs xterm, 12 shells, and 200 different text editors, Linux can’t be beat.
Camel: Whoohoo! Red Dwarf dominates! (if thats what you were thinking of
)
so what: as compared to windows’ 12301923 text editors? Half of them written in VB by a 7th grader? (yes I wrote one too!
)
1) BeOS, Atheos, Syllable, OBOS, etc. are all either dead, or they lack the applications to support their becoming widely
used.
I believe Linux were in the same sitatution not very long ago. It’s not the quantity of Apps, it’s the quality of Apps, and Be has just that. You know… Joe User don’t wanna die trying in Dependecy land.
Games are coming up next on Be, and Linux won’t be a competitor there, it’s not meant for the desktop.
I think MS is not doing bad. I remember the old days, before MS call to power. Lot’s of companies made intel Unix (esix, at&t, sun os, ofcourse SCO,) all those companies had activation keys and you had to pay SO MUCH for the base OS. Everything was a add on. Who remembers IXI. Some other consumer os ( DR-dos, Geos, Warp) did not change much. Christ I spend a fortune on NeXTstep. Now nobody survived, only MS and linux.
Oh yes I used linux 0.99 kernel and up. Around 1996/97 I stoped. Rebooted and start using MS. Once in while I install a linux disto, but some things never change. MS does crash and linux does too, but at least with MS I can spend the evening with my wife and child, instead of reading some FAQ to find out how to get my keyboard fucntioning properly. Yes I don’t even build my own pc’s anymore. Just pay dell to bring to me,and it got XP, office , virus software, play dvd. Go to the shop and buy a game and have some fun with the familiy playing on it. No No, the old days are over, time to move on to the really important things of live.
Isn’t there some Corporate version of XP that does not have Product Activation? Why not just use that instead?
Recently swapped my linux box and my windows box for an OSX box. This is really the best of all worlds (note: my new world does have its quirks
This is an OS that a geek and a grandma can both love.
Anyway, given’s apple’s tremendous software focus, what is stopping them from moving into the intel space down the road. They can still inovate on the hardware side and market and sell os/apps that directly compete with MS/Linux/misc.
Slipstream?
By Darius (IP: —.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net)
If I understand the article right, if you simply install SP1 on top of WindowsXP, you’re in the clear.
But if you ‘slipstream’ SPI into the WinXP install, taht’s when you run into problems? What exactly does ‘slipstream’ mean anyway?
Slipstreaming is the process of coping the Xp files to the HD, then the SP files in another spot, then you burn the whole thing back to a CD and so when you do the install it automatically updates the origanal install file during the install to SP-1 status.
Check out http://groups.google.com/groups?q=slipstream+windows+instructions&h… for more info
>Isn’t there some Corporate version of XP that does not >have Product Activation? Why not just use that instead?
Yes there is. I have that version. After the install you just have to enter the serial number and your good to go.
As i see it your safe if you have this version and as long as you don’t Upgrade to SP1.
OK folks, I’m not sure what the problem is here. Why exactly shouldn’t MS get paid for a product they are producing? Would you get pissed off at the phone company for charging you to call long distance? What about the cable company? Would you get mad at them for charging you for a *service you use*?
Now for those of you who do not use the product, there is no need to badmouth the product or the company just for the sake of sounding cool.
My $.02, people should get paid for the work they do. I personally work my ass off producing commercial software. I devote most of my time to it, and I expect to be compensated in return so that in the little free time I do have I can afford to be doing things I want to do (like snowboarding).
Personally, I use Windows at work because it lets me get my work done. I can’t say that of any other operating system.
BTW: If I was going to use an OS just because I liked it, I would use OSX. I just can’t afford an Apple (but maybe I could if people didn’t spend so much of their time pirating software).
Let’s see… Anyone taking any bets on how long it’ll take the crackers to come up with a workaround for this new method? I’d bet less than a week, and more likely within 48 hours of the updated XP being released.
This is ridiculous in that the only ones who will be inconvenienced by this will be legit users who run into problems caused by these changes.
Realistically, those who are using a pirated copy of Windows XP will also likely be those who either don’t upgrade to SP1, or those who wait until a cracked update is released.
And if it does succeed (hahaha… Like MS’s has had any success with their anti-pirating efforts), do you really think that all those users, who are also likely to be buying XP compatible software (yes, whether they can pirate or not, many users of cracked software end up buying software as well), are likely to go purchase a full price copy of XP?? Not likely!
What’s more likely to happen -Again, this is only if MS is succesful in their efforts, is that these same people would likely either go the free route (Linux, BeOS, etc.), or would re-invest their hard earned $$ into something non-Microsoft.
Which of course means fewer potential buyers of Windows-based software. Which means less incentive to develop for Windows. And fewer apps also means fewer reasons to use Windows in the first place. Not that this would happen overnight, but MS is very ignorant of their market if they think that people are so enraptured with their OS’s that they’ll pay whatever MS demands.
I think that the lack of acceptance of their new corporate support plans is evidence enough that MS’s business plan no longer jives with todays PC market. To try and make up their lost revenue by throwing money and man-hours at this type of thing is further evidence that MS doesn’t understand todays PC users, or how to earn their dollars.
But none of this is going to happen anyway…
The day that MS is succesful in defending itself against pirates is the day that the Amiga become a viable alternative to MS’s dominance.
In other words, it ain’t going to happen.
On a side note, I wish that just a small fraction of the effort that MS is throwing at stupid, unsolvable problems like this, would go into making their OS a better, more secure and stable one.
Instead, we get security holes galore, while MS spends way too much time and money trying to get people to not pirate their buggy, insecure software.
Camel: Whoohoo! Red Dwarf dominates! (if thats what you were thinking of
)
It certainly was. Red Dwarf has one of the best dialogs of any TV show; well, at least the most amusing.
I believe Linux were in the same sitatution not very long ago.
I don’t know about that. I started using Linux back in ’94 and it had plenty of apps.
It’s not the quantity of Apps, it’s the quality of Apps, and Be has just that. You know… Joe User don’t wanna die trying in Dependecy land.
Don’t get me wrong. I liked many things about BeOS and even wrote some small programs for it. The reason that BeOS never made it beyond a mild interest to the position of my favorite desktop was that there wasn’t very much I could do with it. I found it totally boring. The fact that there weren’t any really amazing apps for it either didn’t help. Everything just seemed on par to me. Nothing spectacular. Technically, it was awesome, but somehow lackluster at the same time.
Games are coming up next on Be, and Linux won’t be a competitor there, it’s not meant for the desktop.
I play numerous games on my Linux system and also use it as a workstation. It performs both tasks really well.
When BeOS, OBOS, etc. finally release something, I will evaluate it and perhaps, though some thaumaturgy, change my opinion. That day is not today.
My $.02, people should get paid for the work they do. I personally work my ass off producing commercial software. I devote most of my time to it, and I expect to be compensated in return so that in the little free time I do have I can afford to be doing things I want to do (like snowboarding).
———
And I’m sure you learned your craft on software mommy & daddy forked out for you and never pirated a thing in your life.
Naturally I know of folks who have allegedly copied commercial software from friends and family. Games mostly. I do *not* know of anyone who has made illegal copies of the Windows operating system. I think most users run the version that came with their computer, and upgrade the OS when they buy a new computer.
While I am basically against stealing, I think software companies make an error in logic when they figure the financial loss caused by pirating. They assume that every single person who has unauthorized software would have bought the product instead. Fat chance…
My point being, that *if* MS could really make its OS copy-proof, it does not necessarily mean higher sales. It merely means that fewer people will be using the latest version.
Best Wishes,
Bob
An adroit assessment with only two flaws.
<p>
1) BeOS, Atheos, Syllable, OBOS, etc. are all either dead, or they lack the applications to support their becoming widely used.
<p>
2) BeOS, Atheos, Syllable, OBOS, etc. are all either dead, or they lack the applications to support their becoming widely used.
<p>
While these two items are technically the same flaw, I feel that the magnitude is great enough to warrant listing it twice.
AMEN
<p>
P.S. and remember: with the exception of the defnct BeOS these are too-late-in-the-hobby-game OSes.
OK folks, I’m not sure what the problem is here. Why exactly shouldn’t MS get paid for a product they are producing? Would you get pissed off at the phone company for charging you to call long distance? What about the cable company? Would you get mad at them for charging you for a *service you use*?
YES I would, if it would be stuffed on my throat leveraging their monopoly power.
What if the cable company would team up with phone company and would not let “Copper Brothers Inc.” provide me with their phone service, again using some dirty tricks, and then triple the price on my bill just because.
“As i see it your safe if you have this version and as long as you don’t Upgrade to SP1.”
That’s kind of useless, wouldn’t you say?
“Hey, I’ve got this really neat operating system, but I can’t install XYZ on it as I can’t install OS patches and a file in one of those patches is needed by XYZ”
I find it dissapointing to see that so many “intelligent” people think it is a great idea to pirate software. Piracy of software goes beyond just “free” copies of software, in the pacific rim, as well as other areas of the world, software piracy is a multimillion dollar crime industry. The money made from this goes to support the illegal drug industry, prostitution, terrorism and organized crime. So if you script kiddies are proud of your efforts to support these industries I’m happy for you. I’m sure your mothers are proud that you use your intelligence to make this world a better place.
The issue isn’t about pirating something to get it for free. The issue is about companies insisting on using “anti-piracy” measures that inconvience legitimate users and cost money to implement, even though they never work. Copy Protection schemes have never worked.
Here’s a real life case to prove my point. It doesn’t involve Microsoft directly, but Maxis.
I bought The Sims. Went to the store, paid money for it. I brought it home. I installed it and tried to run it, but it didn’t work. After goofing around with it for a few minutes I went to Maxis’ web site and searched to see if the problem was a known issue.
It was. It was the copy protection scheme that did not work for certain CD-ROM models. I checked the list and, sure enough, my CD-ROM was listed as not being compatible with the protection scheme.
Being a lawful person, I have two choices:
1) return the game
2) buy a new CD-ROM
Returning the game would be a small hassle, not guaranteed depending on where I bought it, and if I wanted to actually play the game I paid for, I’d be out of luck.
Buying a new CD-ROM was ridiculous because my current one works fine, and it would incur an additional charge.
So I went a third route: I searched for, and downloaded, a no-CD patch. The game runs fine.
Now, the question is knowing that future Sims games will probably not work with my CD-ROM, should I bother to buy them or just go ahead and pirate it, knowing that it will most certainly work?
By using this copy protection scheme, Maxis has:
A) Not deterred pirates in any way, shape or form.
B) Caused inconvience to a legitimate customer
C) Jeopordized future sales
This copy protection scheme did not come free to Maxis. It had to be licensed from another company, and it took some labour to integrate it within the game. This is all reflected in the cost of the game. Basically, I paid money for a protection scheme that didn’t fulfill its promise and caused me some hassle.
Even hardware protection schemes (dongles) don’t work, because the software still has to check it. And the software is easily modified. Even if it isn’t, on my Atari ST I once bypassed a dongle by using a paperclip to short two joystick wires.
Other instances of bad protection, way back in the 8-bit and 16-bit days, were of constant floppy checks that wore out the floppy drives the ST’s, Amigas and 8-bits.
All through computings short history copy protection has been nothing but a bother to the person that BOUGHT the software: dongles (they get lost), word checks in manuals (they get lost), clear plastic sheets (lost) that get placed over the box cover (lost) and you have to tell the program which color is in the asked for box (two colors in the one box! Uh oh!), photo-copy proof “spin-wheels” (unreadable and lost). And the aforementioned abuse of user hardware.
Today, it’s rather annoying to have, say, three games installed that you play and have to constantly change the CD’s depending on what you want to do. All easily circumvented by downloading a no-CD patch.
In this case, Microsoft paid engineers to come up with, and implement, an idea. That cost money. On top of another implementation that didn’t work that also cost money. And if they go with the “phone-home” method (which I guarantee can be cracked), it will cost money to have the check-in server running 24/7 without any downtime ever (can you imagine booting up your PC and not being able to use it because their server died? Or a road crew severed their internet connection by accident?). This drives the price up. Who is inconvienced in the long run? Not the pirate.
This is hardly worth a reply… Go “mother” someone who wants it. We’re here to discuss issues, not to try and guilt-trip someone into being somebody they’re not.
But since you bring it up…
I find it dissapointing to see that so many “intelligent” people think it is a great idea to pirate software.
I find it disapointing that some politically correct whiner fills up the message board with finger shakings and guilt trips.
Piracy of software goes beyond just “free” copies of software, in the pacific rim, as well as other areas of the world, software piracy is a multimillion dollar crime industry. The money made from this goes to support the illegal drug industry, prostitution, terrorism and organized crime.
And money spent towards hardware and software goes to… Where? Can you honestly say that you see piracy as causing all of the worlds evils, and yet still be so short-sighted to not see that when you spend your money with a large company (We’ll use MS since this thread’s about them) you’re supporting whatever causes that the people who run that company support?
MS lobby’s for so many bills it’ll make your head spin.
If Bill suddenly decides he’s against abortion, your hard earned dollars are now lobbying to make abortions illegal. Conversely, if Bill decides he likes a womans right to decide, you’re now supporting lobbying efforts towards that.
And this is just an example. MS and Bill and many others all have a variety of goals. By purchasing from them, you’re making it easier for them to achieve these goals, whether you agree with them or not.
And while I’ll agree that the people mass-producing CD-Roms and DVD’s in Asia and elsewhere may be putting some of that money into other illegal operations, I can guarentee that the people posting warez online, either via the web, in IRC, or via P2P are not[/i] paying for other crimes as no money’s exchanged.
I could go on and explain the warez scene to you, but quite frankly you’re not worth my time. You obviously don’t get it, and are just commenting based on keywords (warez, theft, cracks) and your narrow-minded viewpoint. My guess is that your viewpoints are totally determined by the media. If MSNBC and CNN suddenly started running “scare” articles about how the warez scene is funding Iraq’s nuclear bomb program, you’d probably be on here throwing that along side your prostitution and drug charges, whether there was any evidence or not.
Open your eyes and learn before you just assume… By offering these little “What would your mother think?” speeches, you’re just alienating others.
So if you script kiddies are proud of your efforts to support these industries I’m happy for you. I’m sure your mothers are proud that you use your intelligence to make this world a better place.
My Moms just happy that I have an open mind and am able to use my skills and intelligence to formulate my own opinions.
I’m sure your mother must have had other goals when raising you. I’m sorry…
Oh -By the way! script kiddies are an entirely different subject than warez and pirating. Another example of how ill-informed you really are.
Like I intended for the last half of that post to be bolded… Come on. 8)=
I have a unusual situation. I actually bought two legitimate copies of XP Pro. But they are not corporate edition. I have real misgivings about the activation “feature” of XP’s non-corp editions. So, I got a copy of the Corp version through other channels. I installed that corporate version instead. Now, while that might not follow a strict interpretation of the EULA, I feel justified. I could just install Windows 2000 and use the older-version backwards-license feature (if that applies to boxed copies), but I wanted the features and capabilities of XP (not many, but a few that I wanted) like better legacy game compatibility and remote console access through terminal services.
I installed the corp edition in silent protest of MS’s cheesy activation scheme, and not to steal anything. I guess I’ll just have to wait for some enterprising soul to create a way around this new MS hurdle.
I’m sure your mothers are proud that you use your intelligence to make this world a better place.
———
Yes, and I’m sure the mothers of those at the head of corporations everywhere are proud they’re destroying the environment, lying, cheating, stealing their way to the top, all the while oppressing those less fortunate than them, destroying fair competition, while hiding all under the guise of PR and slick advertising.
…helping, of course, to make the world a better place.
hi!
i already got a copy of SP1 and it is not a beta. i know this sounds strange but i bought it yesterday. of course it was pirated like everything i ever got. it costs 50 cents. it comes with a a very simple crack that totally kills the new mechanisim, a reg file and a new CD-key. that takes care of the whole new algorithm.
i would gladly give a copy to anyone but i have an extremely slow and expensive internet connection.