Slew of browser updates lately: Mozilla 1.7RC2, Camino 0.8b, Opera 6.2 for Series 60, Dillo 0.8.1. I just tried Camino 0.8b on my dual 1.25GHz PowerMac G4 and its interface has seen a significant upgrade.Check a screenshot here.
Except one bug (some times new windows are open when you middle-click a link to open on a new tab) and the fact that the new tabs are only ~16 pixels high –making them really difficult to target quickly with the mouse (I request for 4-5 more pixels vertically while removing 2-3 pixels from the right side of the “Close Tab” buttons)– I find Camino an excellent browser, which I believe is even simpler than Firefox, yet full featured (btw, is there any way I can make the Google input box a bit smaller? I love that resizing feature on Safari: I have its Google input box always on minimum size which is enough for the few times I am using it, and by doing that I am saving real screen estate for the URL bar which users are using more in comparison).
Camino now features a new bookmark system, similar to Safari’s and Epiphany’s.
While performance-wise Safari is still the best (scrolling up and down and resizing any Gecko browser’s window is distractingly jerky on OSX, while Safari is always smoother), Camino does a promising come-back. If they address my above (and other people’s) nitpicks, Camino can easily become the No2 Mac browser again (let’s face it, what ships by default with the OS is difficult to dethrone).
‘Nuff said. 😛
Eugenia please fill a bug in bugzilla if you want your issues to be adressed.
Ludovic
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http://perso.hirlimann.net/~ludo/blog/archives/cat_caminomozilla.ht…
just installed mozilla rc2 here. not much visible improvment over 1.6 (sorry i did not tried rc1) however rc2 is more responsive & page rendering has been better & fast (i know they have made lots of under the hood enhancement) however it still does not ship will some useful extensions like tab warning, auto scroll & like that. however it is already my default browser & is looking forward to version 1.7 final. all 1.6 user should upgrade to 1.7rc2 since installed it today haven’t had any stability issue but again it is too early to say anything
Dillo doesn’t render properly the home page of osnews because it idents some of the news boxes, but other than that it is a very nice browser
I know, that’s a bug on Dillo’s new table algorithm in regards to rows. File a bug report with them please.
Their other big problem is that they don’t allow closing a form outside a table (if the form was opened inside a table), which is a very common trick webmasters do in order to go around IE’s rendering bug (form creates an unwanted empty space after it closes). So, because Dillo doesn’t support out-of-order closing of a tag (which is illegal code, but its support is needed), it completely craps up on both OSNews.com and NMCx.com (for OSNews I have created a workaround if the browser is “Dillo” but I haven’t bothered doing so for NMC too).
Safari is better because of Open Source khtml.
Cheers
“Safari is better because of Open Source khtml.
Cheers”
Ummm…Any of the Mozilla’s (That includes Camino) and Dillo are open source as well. KHTML is not really all that special. I have had fewer problems with Mozilla/Gecko then with KHTML.
“safari” itself is not open source. mozilla + gecko is. And open source does not always mean better software.
well, when i mean better, i mean more stable. what’s the point in camino anyway? i know it’s written to have an aqua interface but so does firefox. its menu shows up in the desktop menu bar and it looks like aqua. also, command-clicking links opens them up in tabs, just like in safari!
i don’t see why people don’t use safari anyway. it’s a good, stable browser. it doesn’t have all the bells and whistles that firefox or opera have but it’s got everything you’d need.
” it doesn’t have all the bells and whistles that firefox or opera have but it’s got everything you’d need.”
What exactly is Safari missing that Firefox has? I am curious as I am planning to get a Powerbook soon. I took a look at Safari and it seemed to have everything that I need, and actually had the “top of domain” button which I haven’t seen elseware. I know Firefox has extensions and themes available, but is there some difference other than those that I mention I should be aware of? I know Opera has a slew of features, none of which I am interested in (never cared much for Opera).
“safari” itself is not open source. mozilla + gecko is. And open source does not always mean better software.
True, Safari is not an opensource browser, but supposedly, Apple to contribute back code for KHTML.
I totally agree with you though:
Open source != better software
Anyway to import Firefox and Safari bookmarks into Camino?
There isn’t anything really wrong with Safari outside of some page rendering issues (Camino generally seems to get more sites right,not that Safari is bad in that respect), slow page rendering, and major memory usage with alot of tabs.
I just prefer the Mozilla code base. It “feels” alot snappier which when browsing the web is a distinct advantage.
thanks for the screenshot, as it’s not available on mozilla.org, I can finally see what Camino 0.8 look like.
Any way you can put Firefox pre-0.9 and Camino 0.8b side to side screenshots on MacOSX ?
I _really_ like the “open in tabs” for groups on the menu bar in Safari.
I’ve got several groups of websites on the menu bar. I just click on the group, go to the bottom, click on “open in tabs” and then let it open one tab for each website. Then I go through all of them (5 in smallest, 12 in largest group) one at a time and close each one when I’m done.
That, iSync (syncs my bookmarks between multiple Macs at work and home), and “snapback” are favorite things that I don’t think any other browser has for Mac OS X.
http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?t=74516&postdays=0&post…
The build linked to from this page features (among other things) far better looking tabs and the more logical and easier to use left alignment seen in many other browsers.
Anyway to import Firefox and Safari bookmarks into Camino?
In the Camino Menu “Import bookmarks …”
I _really_ like the “open in tabs” for groups on the menu bar in Safari.
This also work in Camino.
The build linked to from this page features (among other things) far better looking tabs and the more
Yeah but is not been tested has much has the old tabing code, and does not work on OS X 10.1.5.
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http://homepage.mac.com/softkid/
firefox is more customizable and, with the extensions, has an infinite more features than safari. safari’s great though. i sometimes try out other browsers but i always go back to safari. it’s just nicer to use.
I think all of this is good news, as a Mac user. I remember when there was a serious dearth of good browsers on the Mac side, and now there are several (Safari, Camino, Firefox, Omniweb, Opera, etc.).
Like many other, however, I have often been curious about the spilt between Firefox and Camino. Other than UI, are the feature sets of the two starting to draw apart?
Get it right.
Safari is not Open Source or Free Software, but the redering engine is. It is based on KHTML, the lightweight rendering engine from the KDE project.
Apple isn’t returning changes to KHTML to the KDe project out of the goodness of their heart, it is doing do because it is required under the xGPL. I can’t remember if KHTML is LGPL or GPL.
Stuffit Expander can’t open the Camino .gz and neither can gunzip. What’s the best way to open it?
i think i’m too used to firefox, and i miss some of its features when using safari. on my powerbook i use firefox with no problems, but firefox is too slow on my work computer so i’m stuck with safari.
here are some features that i like better about firefox:
* type-ahead-find. it gets even better if you uncheck the box so that it will search the whole page.
* i’m feeling lucky search. type your search into the address bar and if firefox cannot resolve it, it will perform a google i’m feeling luck search. if you want an example, type “gentoo” into both safari and firefox and see what you get back.
* cmd-[1-9]. this is something i’ve begun to use extensively as you can switch to a specific tab. i haven’t found an equivalent in safari
* highlight and right click and select google search. in firefox this opens a new tab with the search, whereas safari assumes you want the current tab to go to google. i usually don’t.
* search bar plugins. that search bar can do more than just google. how about imdb?
* tabbrowser extensions. this extension will allow you to force single-window mode, change the way the close icons work in the tab bar and more. very extensive.
things i like better about safari:
* pithhelmet. its not perfect, and i’m sure the firefox extension adblock will do the same, but pithhelmet has a great default set.
i personally like firefox better, but to each their own.
Dillo is great for ancient computers.
I haven’t used the old Mozilla since firfox hit 0.4, but I cheer for its improvement, and that of its successors. I’m also glad that Apple is using an open-source core for Safari. I really wish IE would just disappear.
> Their other big problem is that they don’t allow closing a
> form outside a table (if the form was opened inside a
> table), which is a very common trick webmasters do in order
> to go around IE’s rendering bug (form creates an unwanted
> empty space after it closes).
Eugenia, try using CSS to reset the margins and padding on the form tag, that should be a cleaner way of doing it.
Or, just close the form inside the table too…
Damien
No, because Netscapes have that problem too (if I close it inside the table) and they don’t support that kind of CSS. Besides, as I have said many-many times in the past, I don’t want to use heavy CSS on osnews because of compatibility with weird/old OSes.
Please don’t open that can of worms again.
“Get it right.
Safari is not Open Source or Free Software, but the redering engine is. It is based on KHTML, the lightweight rendering engine from the KDE project.
Apple isn’t returning changes to KHTML to the KDe project out of the goodness of their heart, it is doing do because it is required under the xGPL. I can’t remember if KHTML is LGPL or GPL.”
Has anybody said anything contrary to that in this forum?
“Get it right.
Safari is not Open Source or Free Software, but the rendering engine is. It is based on KHTML, the lightweight rendering engine from the KDE project.
Apple isn’t returning changes to KHTML to the KDe project out of the goodness of their heart, it is doing do because it is required under the xGPL. I can’t remember if KHTML is LGPL or GPL.”
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It’s LGPL, and I why such a cold view of a company using the license?
No company should get flack for that…. it’s just ignorant.
I’d love to have a little less GPL propaganda, and a little more news on this site. Frankly it’s just bothersome…
“Their other big problem is that they don’t allow closing a form outside a table (if the form was opened inside a table), which is a very common trick webmasters do in order to go around IE’s rendering bug (form creates an unwanted empty space after it closes). ”
thats what CSS if for. You can script to standards and get the results you want.
FORM{display:inline;}
No more line break.
I moved from Camino to Firefox, but took a look at the newest version of Camino to see if it could woo me back. Unfortunately, they have gone witht he Safari method of handling bookmarks, rather than having a sidebar/drawer for bookmarks. I know some people prefer this method, but I simply cannot fathom why. Small monitors?
I do not understand why the Camino developers did not keep the sidebar as an option you could toggle in preferences.
Both Camino and Firefox cries when you open a page with some kind of intensive Flash animation, complete freezes all tabs and you have to force quit the application, losting data… I think that’s bugs:
http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=106397
http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=172312
http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=233702
http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=235968
Safari render pages with Flash without compromising the entire browser, it’s still slower than windows, but that’s a player implementations fault I supose. But don’t have type-ahead-find nor the ability to add more search engines, so I’m sticking with FF for the ordinary browsing and Safari to see fancy promotional websites and flash-based webgames.
Read my reply above.
Be nice to be able to go back more than one page in History using the back button.
Would be nice to right click on an ad and block images from said adserver. A by-default clicking on a link opens in a new tab would be great too.
” Be nice to be able to go back more than one page in History using the back button.”
Which browser are you referring to? I know Mozilla FireFox has this ability. There is a down pointing arrow which is next to the back button. If you press this, a menu with your history shows up and you can just select a location.
I’m speaking of Camino. By the way, if any of its developers are still reading here, I complained earlier about not being able to right click and open in new tabs. Never mind that, clicking and holding down the Command key works great! Now if we had the history listing in the Back button and the ability to block adservers (images), I’d be happy. The speed is incredible! Great job!
“I’m speaking of Camino. By the way, if any of its developers are still reading here, I complained earlier about not being able to right click and open in new tabs. Never mind that, clicking and holding down the Command key works great! Now if we had the history listing in the Back button and the ability to block adservers (images), I’d be happy. The speed is incredible! Great job!”
If you think something should be changed, please file a bug report.
http://www.mozilla.org/projects/camino/feedback.html
Done. I really like this release…