Home > Microsoft > Microsoft Scrambles to Finish Integration of ‘Yukon’ and ‘Whidbey’Microsoft Scrambles to Finish Integration of ‘Yukon’ and ‘Whidbey’ Submitted by Jan Michael Tan 2005-04-18 Microsoft 29 CommentsThe software giant is working furiously to put the finishing touches on its integrated SQL Server 2005 and Visual Studio 2005.About The Author Eugenia LoliEx-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.Follow me on Twitter @EugeniaLoli 29 Comments 2005-04-18 10:35 am And it’s supposed to on April 25. SharpDevelop 2.0 alpha is supposed to hit SVN a week or so after Beta2 and sports a totally rewritten parser and will be based on MSBuild instead of their custom project management. 2005-04-18 10:47 am I like VS.NET, and I like SQL Server. But embedding the CLR into SQL Server is something not really useful, and it also binds you more to the MS platform.Nothing for me, dude. 2005-04-18 11:01 am Well, if you have something like a large asp.net you are so tied into the MS platform already why not go the whole way . I know we plan to use this in our asp.net app at work (sparingly) 2005-04-18 11:15 am Well, if you have something like a large asp.net you are so tied into the MS platform already why not go the whole way . I know we plan to use this in our asp.net app at work (sparingly)Well, you’re not so bound to the MS platform than we (Windows.Forms) – it’s rather easy to port ASP.NET apps to mono … 2005-04-18 11:22 am haven’t really put a thought into c#, only used it once for a custom network application, am still not sure if it could replace java.is VS.net coded in .Net, if so then it could be executed with mono right? 2005-04-18 11:48 am is VS.net coded in .Net, if so then it could be executed with mono right?In a word, no. VS.Net is still very much a native COM application, albeit with .Net extensions for everyone else of course.It is highly unlikely now that Microsoft’s core applications like Office, or major parts of Windows, will ever be written in .Net. .Net is a technology for writing diddy little desktop applications for everybody else. 2005-04-18 12:21 pm Beta 2 is available now:Beta 2 Sign-off Infohttp://weblogs.asp.net/scottgu/archive/2005/04/16/401381.aspxBeta 2 Tools:http://lab.msdn.microsoft.com/vs2005/get/default.aspx 2005-04-18 12:57 pm havn’t seen any real big application for c# yet, i guess am sticking with java for the time. 2005-04-18 1:05 pm … It is highly unlikely now that Microsoft’s core applications like Office, or major parts of Windows, will ever be written in .Net. .Net is a technology for writing diddy little desktop applications for everybody else.This isn’t totally true. Many of the new IDE features in VS 2005 were done in C#. One of .NET’s advantages, however, is that you don’t have to rewrite existing code to use .NET. For large codebases like Office, it wouldn’t make since to rewrite it all at once just because .NET came along. There are newly developed apps in or related to Office that make use of .NET. Outlook’s Business Contact Manager, Sharepoint, Biztalk Server, and MS’ CRM software are a few apps that use .NET in part or fully.With regards to Windows, the userland APIs for “Longhorn”, WinFX, (some of which will also ship to XP) are written in managed code. With that said, even if something is fully written in managed code, that doesn’t mean it’s automatically runnable on Mono. MS could create a fully managed “Longhorn” version of Office, VS, etc., and Mono wouldn’t be able to run it because the class library support (Avalon, Indigo, etc.) and wouldn’t exist on Mono (at least initially), and some platform services (like WGF, WinFS, etc.) may not have equivalent functionality on other platforms. 2005-04-18 1:40 pm It is highly unlikely now that Microsoft’s core applications like Office, or major parts of Windows, will ever be written in .Net.Fairly big assertion.What if Redmond’s biggest cash cow is Office, and the backwards-compatibility weeds are choking new OS sales. What if a robust Mono and an Office .Net open a huge market, without exposing intellectual property?“higly unlikely”? Perhaps… 2005-04-18 2:18 pm “havn’t seen any real big application for c# yet, i guess am sticking with java for the time. ”#develop is a substantial peace of software… 2005-04-18 2:38 pm “havn’t seen any real big application for c# yet, i guess am sticking with java for the time. ”#develop is a substantial peace of software…Yes and #develop runs 10000x better than any java IDE I’ve used.There is also Webmatrix which is written in C# and it too runs very well, much better than most similar java applications.Of course neither of those are ‘real big’ applications but what is a bigger application in java? When I think real big I think of OpenOffice. 2005-04-18 2:49 pm less resources and convenient file based database. 2005-04-18 3:07 pm You are joking I hope.If not head on over to each products site. If the appearance of the site is not enough to make you realise why a corporation will not use sqllite in most instances then please check out the features section. Please look specifically at those features which help a DB admin.Now have a look at all the support resources for SQL server. 2005-04-18 3:12 pm “Yes and #develop runs 10000x better than any java IDE I’ve used. ”you are joking right? 2005-04-18 3:31 pm >>Of course neither of those are ‘real big’ applications>>but what is a bigger application in java? When I think>>real big I think of OpenOffice.Have you heard about Oracle, and oracle applications, like the E-Business Suite, or JDeveloper? They’re a lot larger than OpenOffice.. 2005-04-18 3:34 pm “Yes and #develop runs 10000x better than any java IDE I’ve used. ”you are joking right?Yes and no, 1000x better is of course an exaggeration [google define exaggeration], I thought that part was obvious.I take it you are a java zealot? [Really] Compare #develop to say netbeans. The difference is night ‘n day. Eclipse runs very well but it uses its own SWT GUI library.And by java IDE I guess I was a bit vague. I meant an IDE written in java for java with the same or similar features that #develop has. 2005-04-18 3:41 pm Thought this was OSNEWS 2005-04-18 3:46 pm You do realise that operating systems have software? 2005-04-18 3:49 pm I don’t know – seems like this “integrate SQL in everything” is getting a bit worn out. First, we are talking Transact SQL here, which means you are “integrating” something not very portable. Secondly, like SQL is cool! It is an lame cobolish query lang and if it weren’t for portability it would suck big time. 2005-04-18 3:55 pm have you ever used IDEA? and when was the last time you used a java IDE? 2005-04-18 4:27 pm While proc may not have used IntelliJ IDEA, I definitely have, and am still using it. In my opinion, it is definitely the best Java IDE out there, and don’t expect me to trade it in for anything else…for Java. Compared to SharpDevelop or VS.NET, it’s still quite a pile of crap, especially from a productivity and usefulness standpoint.Lots of cool features? Yes.More useful and productive? No.It doesn’t matter how many features it has if the way of accessing and using them is just plain retarded. It’s not how it looks or what it has, it’s how it’s used. (Hint for Sun: copying VS.NET’s interface isn’t going to make Java Studio Creator good) 2005-04-18 5:02 pm Commercial, high quality, C# desktop app:http://www.adam.com/aia/ 2005-04-18 5:30 pm strange, not only i myself, many of my co-workers used both IDEA and VS.net, they say the exact opposite.it is common to hear “VS.net is a piece of crap comparing to IDEA..” maybe the problem domain is the issue. if you are extensively dealing with code, i believe Java IDE’s are unbeatable. Editor – refactoring support etc. productivity on coding is much better in those IDE’s contrary to your claim.But probably if you are dealing GUI issues, VS.net is better. i do not have much experience in GUI issues with Vs.net tough. 2005-04-18 6:25 pm How about a ~130MB desktop app that accesses 10 TB of satellite data from the comfort of your own PC. Thats pretty big, and it trhows a lot of data around too: http://worldwind.arc.nasa.gov/3D earth viewer with on-demand level of detail and an all round jaw dropping educational tool. And open source too, isn’t that nice? 2005-04-18 7:54 pm aaa: if you are extensively dealing with code, i believe Java IDE’s are unbeatable.(I’m a graduate student at a University, who loves coding Anyway…)I haven’t used all the latest Java IDEs and I haven’t used all the features of the ones I do use. But as someone who writes code practically all the time on different computers, I find NetBeans to be ridicuously annoying at times. Why? I find it’s attempts to help to usually be wrong. For example: When I’m writing code it frequently adds or removes braces, brackets, etc. I find it’s choice works fairly often (though I would have automatically done the same thing it did and so it saved me no time whatsoever) it sometimes makes the wrong choice and I don’t always notice right away and as a result, that feature actually has reduced my productivity.I also find that it’s debugger support doesn’t always work right. It’s refactoring also hasn’t always worked right for me, so I just do it myself now. In short… NetBeans’ feature support for some reason has never seemed to work quite right for me. I use it mostly because everyone else I know uses it. But to put it bluntly they don’t code nearly as much as I do.I haven’t worked with the latest VS.net but the last time I worked with it things went better I’d say. (I vaguely remember a couple mishaps, but those were uncommon if I remember correctly)I suppose I should tinker more with the latest versions of some of the other Java IDEs and see if they suit me better.So you would recommend IDEA? 2005-04-18 8:10 pm i know this is off topic now, but since you asked,Although newer versions of NetBeans is greatly improved (4.1 ), IDEA easily beats it down. we use it in our development and to me it is the best IDE i have ever used (i used Eclipse, VS.net, NetBeans and ZendStudio).Eclipse is close to it in terms of functionality but it’s ease of use is questionable (more of a different taste lets say). Also idea integrates things that Eclipse only gives support by plug-ins. such as xml editor, App Server support, jsp code editor-debugger etc.So yes, i definitely suggest taking a look. also read some objective comparisons. i would challange anyone who claims VS.net is better in coding comparing to IDEA. Since VS.net is so weak in coding, same company making IDEA provides a plug-in for VS.net for C# making it “acceptable”. Product is called Resharper. 2005-04-18 9:29 pm I like the architecture of Eclipse to be nice – but the interface is just horrid. IDEA and Netbeans win hands down on that count.The Eclipse crew really needs to rethink how they present the development environment. I’ve heard they don’t change because of WebSphere old-timers, but IBM has always had a reputation for presenting flaky interfaces. 2005-04-19 9:13 pm Or just .Net apps in general:First off, you’re limiting your assumptions to desktop apps, don’t forget that 2 of the busiest websites in the world run on .Net; MS.com and nasdaq.com. A good portion of the new .Net framework is written using managed code as well.