“SUSE Linux 10.1 Alpha4 is ready for testing. New significant changes in 10.1 Alpha4 since 10.1 Alpha3: further integration of NetworkManager (note: NetworkManager is on by default on NLD/SUSE Linux and off on SLES); Updates to all parts of the system, especially new bash version (3.1), new Linux kernel (2.6.15 rc5), KDE 3.5 final, GNOME 2.12.2, and X.Org 6.9 rc3.” Mirrors are here for the three supported architectures (x86, x86-64, and PPC).
Has SUSE become so irrelevant that people don’t even want to comment on it anymore
Guess Novell may as well close shop and let Red Hat monopolize the Linux market. I forsee RedHat as being the next “Microsoft” for UNIX systems.
That’s not it at all. We don’t care because SUSE 10.0’s still working perfect. Alpha releases are for bug testers, not for users.
suse has a lot to offer but i think people are more and more comming to be so bumbarded with information on differnt linux distro’s that they are becoming numb to it. the line between differences between them blurs more and more every time.
Why would someone release an OS for testing, whilst saying that you can’t login? And making you go through all those extra steps, editing your X11 config files just to be able to login?
I mean, dudez, SuSE (I refuse to say SUSE) rules, but…
“Why would someone release an OS for testing, whilst saying that you can’t login? ”
You can login, please read again.
“And making you go through all those extra steps, editing your X11 config files just to be able to login? ”
Setting up X11 manually is expected for testers of this alpha release. Believe it or not a lot of the testers have no problem with this; they’ll get around it, start using the system and finding bugs.
Has nothing to do with relevance, OpenSUSE has a very tight schedule with the releases and TBH what is there to say the schedule is on the website and they are serious abut sticking to it, so for anyone who follows the release this isnt big news…any comments or concerns shoudl be addressed to SUSE not OSNews feedback lol…so what it says to me is maybe most SUSE users are just smarter than u lol…and for the record im a CentOS user b4 u pass judgement…
OpenSUSE has to overcome the lead of two dominant open desktop-friendly platforms far ahead of it in terms of market and mindshare – Ubuntu and Fedora. there’s often little chance for a third entrant in any market to have much of an impact, and Novell’s schizophrenic branding of its distros doesn’t help.
Isn’t SuSE far ahead of Ubuntu in terms of marketshare? Distrowatch.com statistics notwithstanding.
I have yet to meet someone who uses Fedora, although I’m sure there’s a huge community somewhere.
Distrowatch statistics are worthless. I always check what’s happening on various distros but I use only one which I never check….
I agree with you, distrowatch stats don’t really mean anything. Personally I think Ubuntu has done quite a lot to attract a lot of people to Desktop Linux but I also believe its just going through a popularity phase (sort of like Gentoo a few years ago). There is nothing in Ubuntu and related projects thats not available in other distros and once many users realise that Ubuntu is just hype and free cd’s they may try other distros.
Microsoft has already stated to the media Novell and Red Hat are the major players competiting with Microsoft for the desktop/server. It’s not distributions such as Ubuntu. This really has to stop with people viewing Distrowatch as being an accurate indicator of consumers preferred distribution. What you should be paying attention to is what businesses, education institutions, governments, etc are using and not how many times someone clicks on a distribution link for a site.
As for Novell while they do work to build better relations with the Linux community and ISV they are also very competitive against other commercial distribution developers like Red Hat. This is through offering competitive support offerings for private and enterprise markets as well selling additional software that are not always open source. This is where the OpenSUSE project can help both promote SUSE Linux as well improve relations for Novell. Consumers and ISV can see for themselves with a free version of SUSE Linux how well it’s progressing with developement. As well programmers and maintainers outside of Novell can help contribute to making the distribution a better product for the benefit of consumers. The best of this code is then put in to the final product and also the commercial end such as Novell Linux Desktop.
For starters you are forgetting Mandriva, which has always been ahead of Fedora (and previously Red Hat) as a “desktop-friendly platform”
And then why are Ubuntu and Fedora particularly desktop-friendly? Ubuntu is only one CD, whilst SUSE gives you either 5 CDs or one DVD (or a double DVD if you buy it)
But that isn’t even the main point: SUSE installs all the commercial plugins for you, guaranteed to work, Nvidia drivers…
Ubuntu and Fedora do none of the above, and in the case of Fedora adding proprietary plugins and installing Nvidia is an absolute pita, especially for newbies. Granted, in the case of Ubuntu it is easier (it is Debian-alike after all) But Ubuntu doesn’t even have a particularly newbie friendly installer (SUSE, Mandriva and even Fedora are miles ahead of Ubuntu when it comes to installers).
Ergo Ubuntu is just hype backed by a shitload of money.
I find many “minor” distros, often developed by one or two men with hardly any resources, a lot better than Ubuntu.
But that isn’t even the main point: SUSE installs all the commercial plugins for you, guaranteed to work, Nvidia drivers…
Supporting proprietary drivers kills Linux -> http://lwn.net/Articles/162686/
Ubuntu and Fedora do none of the above, and in the case of Fedora adding proprietary plugins and installing Nvidia is an absolute pita, especially for newbies.
You must be joking. Heve you ever seen this page http://www.fedorafaq.org/#nvidia ?
Re: “But that isn’t even the main point: SUSE installs all the commercial plugins for you, guaranteed to work, Nvidia drivers….”
Anonymouse_coward reply:
“Supporting proprietary drivers kills Linux -> ” rel=”nofollow”>http://lwn.net/Articles/162686/”
You failed to miss the point entirely. What the poster was referring to is that Novell does provide access to commercial plugins such as Macromedia’s Flash and NVIDIA’s drivers unlike a lot of other distributions.
Re: “Ubuntu and Fedora do none of the above, and in the case of Fedora adding proprietary plugins and installing Nvidia is an absolute pita, especially for newbies.”
Anonymouse_coward reply:
“You must be joking. Heve you ever seen this page http://www.fedorafaq.org/#nvidia ?”
Obviously you’ve either missed the previous posters point or cannot see the need to provide binary drivers so as to make it easier to install things on a Linux distribution as is done on Windows. SUSE Linux unlike Fedora is able to auto-install the NVIDIA graphics driver providing true “Plug & Play” support. It also means no need to reconfigure the graphics driver after the Linux kernel is updated which means less down time. Also consumers are less likely to buy commercial software or install open source software applications that require them to “configure, make, make install” the application instead of just “one-click-install”. ISV know this and reason why standards are created.
http://www.linuxbase.org/
Edited 2005-12-17 20:37
Novell does provide access to commercial plugins such as Macromedia’s Flash and NVIDIA’s drivers unlike a lot of other distributions.
Let’s wait till they get sued for providing binary only drivers -> http://lwn.net/Articles/157225/
I also don’t understand why people are so upset that Flash player is not provided on installation CD’s. If you need it, you can install by typing only one command -> http://www.fedorafaq.org/#flash (you can also do that using GUI like yumex but it requires more clicking)
SUSE Linux unlike Fedora is able to auto-install the NVIDIA graphics driver
IMHO it’s a bug rather than a feature. I had more downtimes with this binary driver than with standard nv driver so I stick to the latter one.
ISV know this and reason why standards are created.
http://www.linuxbase.org/
http://www.livejournal.com/users/udrepper/8511.html
Re: “Let’s wait till they get sued for providing binary only drivers -> ” rel=”nofollow”>http://lwn.net/Articles/157225/”
Stop spreading FUD based on the ramblings of others who have no legal background. You already posted once about the hypothetical doomsday scenario from Arjan, which has no basis in fact. So why continue to show your ignorance?
Re: “IMHO it’s a bug rather than a feature. I had more downtimes with this binary driver than with standard nv driver so I stick to the latter one.”
I suggest you check your system error logs for reasons to explain your “bug” issues. Also suggest verifying if the driver being installed supports your graphics GPU. If it’s an outdated graphics card such as Geforce 2 then you may be better using a legacy driver from NVIDIA. I haven’t had any issues with the “Download NVIDIA driver” optional install package available for SUSE Linux via YAST Online Update. I’ve used this method on various systems with both Geforce and Quadro graphics cards. The “nv” driver you mention is basically a 2D driver which does not support OpenGL or Direct Rendering. That means you would have difficulty running applications that require it. If all you’re doing is using OpenOffice and email then I’d say you’re perfectly fine running the nv driver. Otherwise if you want to use applications such as playing Quake 4 or running an application like Blender then the nv driver is not adequate.
Edited 2005-12-18 03:51
“” And RHEL doesn’t offer non-free, non open source applications either. But definitely RHEL isn’t free to download. ”
Depends on what you mean. The complete source code for everything is available at ftp://redhat.com
“Stop spreading FUD based on the ramblings of others who have no legal background. You already posted once about the hypothetical doomsday scenario from Arjan, which has no basis in fact. So why continue to show your ignorance? ”
Puhlease. Greg KH is a ex-IBM developer who has a very good legal background and even advises OSDL on legal issues with binary modules and many kernel developers have indeed prevented distributions from distributing proprietary modules along with the kernel. The legal issues with binary modules are very well known. see MODULES file in the kernel source code.
“Depends on what you mean. The complete source code for everything is available at ftp://redhat.com ”
And so you are going to compile an entire OS from source?
Well, good luck. But then you also need to remove the trademarks… Oh, wait a moment, it has already been done (CentOS, Scientific Linux, and many others)
“And so you are going to compile an entire OS from source? ”
It just proves that the code is available for free and is open source. There is no requirement in any open source license to supply the binary or ISO images for free
Ubuntu and Fedora do none of the above, and in the case of Fedora adding proprietary plugins and installing Nvidia is an absolute pita, especially for newbies. Granted, in the case of Ubuntu it is easier (it is Debian-alike after all) But Ubuntu doesn’t even have a particularly newbie friendly installer (SUSE, Mandriva and even Fedora are miles ahead of Ubuntu when it comes to installers).
Both are free and open-source i.e they cannot include proprietary binairies by default while Suse and Mandriva are commercial i.e they have to pay royaltly fees to include proprietary binaries and they cannot modify encoding/decoding source process due to the licenses. As a poster pointed out, there is a website that explain how to include them.
At this late time of the night I can find at least 3 reasons why I can’t agree with you:
1)SUSE doesn’t have the Nvidia drivers in the media. It is Yast Online Update which optionally offers to download and install them: for the user the result is the same.
2)People who have anything in principle against proprietary software can always download the Open Source Software (OSS) edition of SUSE.
3)Fedora is “free and open-source i.e it cannot include proprietary binairies by default”…Really? They are following the same policy as their parent distro, Red Hat, which certainly isn’t free in monetary terms.
i]1)SUSE doesn’t have the Nvidia drivers in the media. It is Yast Online Update which optionally offers to download and install them: for the user the result is the same.[/i]
Does OpenSUSE provide an option for downloading proprietary binairies?
2)People who have anything in principle against proprietary software can always download the Open Source Software (OSS) edition of SUSE.
you basically summed up the fact users who want to get proprietary binairies by default should pay extras fee.
3)Fedora is “free and open-source i.e it cannot include proprietary binairies by default”…Really? They are following the same policy as their parent distro, Red Hat, which certainly isn’t free in monetary terms.
They chose to stick with that policy because of their to offer only free and open source applications by default. Don’t forget that Fedora Core is the base of Red Hat Enterprise Linux.
“Does OpenSUSE provide an option for downloading proprietary binairies?”
It offers the option to download Nvidia drivers. You can accept or not.
“you basically summed up the fact users who want to get proprietary binairies by default should pay extras fee.”
Not really, because SUSE Evaluation, which is not limited in any way and has all the proprietary stuff, is free to download. So are other distros with proprietary plugins, e.g. Mepis. Personally I don’t believe that Novell or anybody else has to pay for Nvidia drivers, Acrobat Reader, RealPlayer and so on.
“They chose to stick with that policy because of their to offer only free and open source applications by default. Don’t forget that Fedora Core is the base of Red Hat Enterprise Linux.”
Exactly my point. And RHEL doesn’t offer non-free, non open source applications either. But definitely RHEL isn’t free to download.
Concluding: it is up to each distribution to include proprietary stuff or not. Traditionally the newbie friendly, desktop oriented ones have always done so.
I’m getting the impression that some users have a bit too much of their self image hung on what distro they use.
“I’m getting the impression that some users have a bit too much of their self image hung on what distro they use.”
Amen!!!
many fedora users i speak with tell me they are kind’a disapointed and are looking for a new distro. kubuntu and ubuntu seem their first choices, but suse looks nice, too. i point them to mandriva, they should at least try that one, too. altough imho (k)ubuntu has a great future…
many fedora users i speak with tell me they are kind’a disapointed and are looking for a new distro.
That sounds interesting comparing to Netcraft statistics -> http://news.netcraft.com/archives/2005/12/05/strong_growth_for_debi…
Maybe you talk only with desktop users?
To my mind, SuSE 10 with KDE represents the best Linux currently has to offer on the desktop. But I don’t need alpha releases. In any case, there is currently nothing in 10.1 I really need and little I couldn’t get by DIY updating 10.0 anyway.
SuSE probably do need to do more to answer the question “Why use SuSE?”, and while Novell’s ownership has brought them benefits and more resources it has also diluted what was the primo appeal in the days of “SuSE Professional”: solid and meticulous engineering with the best KDE support and the best manuals and online support database around. Too much of this has been replaced with the “hamburgerization” that the exciting world of American capitalism seems to involve these days.
It’s worth pointing out for the fan boys that SuSE was around and extremely popular for a decade before Ubuntu had ever been thought of and will continue to be around for many years yet. New entrant my ass.
“OpenSUSE has to overcome the lead of two dominant open desktop-friendly platforms far ahead of it in terms of market and mindshare – Ubuntu and Fedora. there’s often little chance for a third entrant in any market to have much of an impact, and Novell’s schizophrenic branding of its distros doesn’t help.”
if the distrowatch stats won’t convince that SUSE walks all over fedora in terms of market and minshare, then maybe the OSDL survery results will:
http://www.osdl.org/dtl/DTL_Survey_Report_Nov2005.pdf
hint: question 12
look at the number of responses
this survey makes distrowatch look good
damn i just installed suse 10 and this comes out :S, but good to see suse is moving along nicely, still the best distro IMO.
One of the missing new features is that it is now even faster. See the bootcharts in blogs of SUSE’s KDE developers:
http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/1659
http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/1663
http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/1664
Thanks much for those links. I don’t know what it is, but my suse installs seem to boot in the 40-50 second range.
Now granted, this is much better than the minute+ that I’m used to with Fedora and previous suse versions.
I’m curious, how does the new suse alpha “feel” when in use, considering that it has the new x.org in it?
The current suse 10.0 “feels” very heavy, and I’ve seen in many places that x.org has horrible latency problems.(redraws on screen and what not)
Actually, my SUSE 10.0 installations boot very quickly…it helps if you don’t use ReiserFS because it checks the trees for each Reiser partition at boot, which slows the boot time down quite a bit. I use XFS for my partitions, so my boot time is much faster.
Apparently there won’t be a lot of difference between 10.0 and 10.1, especially if you have already upgrade KDE to 3.5.
But the differences which really matter, in my view, are that 10.1 should be better tested (since it has been available to the public since Alpha 1) and that hopefully it should work with my hardware (barely the case with 10.0). As my hardware is pretty common but rather bleeding edge, this should affect a lot of people.
Why are anonymous postings allowed? When the site was redesigned we were asked to register which I assumed would help curb trolling and make it easier to reply to postings from other readers. Most news and forum sites do not allow this because of such issues and it can tend to lower the professionalism of a site.
Also why is this article considered news worthy? I can understand posting an article relating to a “release candidate” that’s about to be soon released as “final” but not when the software is in “Alpha” stage of developement. We can read the road map planned by developers but the reality is in the Alpha and Beta stage there is a lot of bugs being worked out and sometimes projects get dropped. Posting news about software that is in Alpha stage can actually cause more damage than good for the developer.
Edited 2005-12-17 18:38
I have just installed 10.1 alpha4.To be honest i think they have a long way to go and even than i doubt it will make a difference.
Kde,gnome don’t start,iptables connection tracking isn’t supported on 10 and it amazes me it still isn’t not to mention ipv6 firewalling.
It seems the applications now load slower than ever.
As all OS’s suck deeply and the best of breed only gets a C minus.Man you would get sued into oblivion if you are a car manufacturer and deliver such a buggy OS’s as exist today.
Maybe i have to try OSX sometime,i doubt it will make a difference though.