Today we have a special guest in the series of interviews we conducting here at OSNews. Linus Torvalds, the well known Linux founder, is with us to discuss everything about the kernel, Microsoft, the naming of GNU/Linux and the future. Read on!
1. When do you estimate the 2.5 development kernel source tree will open? What new features are planned to be included on kernel 2.6?
Linus Torvalds: I don’t want to open a 2.5.x development tree until I’m happy with the pending issues for 2.4.x – it’s taken longer than I hoped for, but it’s getting there. Within the month..
The biggest issues for 2.5.x (and the eventual 2.6 or 3.0 release) will probably be NUMA and other big machine scalability, along with an overhaul of the disk IO layer. At the same time, most of what affects “normal” users is the continued driver development etc.
The other part of scalability is scaling down (that’s the part that most “scalable” projects forget completely about), and there the interesting stuff is mostly about some of the QoS issues that some embedded users have. We’ll see where that takes us.
2. What are the best parts of the linux kernel in your opinion, and what are the parts than need changing or even rewritting?
Linus Torvalds: I personally really like our filesystem layer, and in general the “core” code is in pretty good shape. The problem spots tend to be in outlying areas, especially driver code. Much of our SCSI layer really needs to be rewritten eventually, and that’s one of the pushes for 2.5.x..
3. Are there any plans for a more “visual” way to add/remove drivers and reconfigure the kernel itself somewhat on the fly, which can be incredibly helpful for new users?
Linus Torvalds: I’m a big non-believer in manual driver and kernel configuration, be it visual or not. Most of the stuff happens automatically, and we’re going to make that more and more common. Things like hot-plugging a device and the driver automatically getting loaded is how things are supposed to work, none of this “device manager” stuff.
4. Recently you stated that GUIs are important for Linux’s market acceptance. Are you happy with the today’s offerings of KDE, Gnome or WindowMaker as modern GUI systems?
Linus Torvalds: I really like KDE, especially the fact that it’s more than just a window manager infrastructure, but that there are real applications developed under it too.
Which is not to say that there isn’t more to be done – I’m personally happy with what we have now, but at the same time I’d be very very unhappy if it didn’t continue to develop to become better..
5. What do you think of the FreeBSD 5 kernel and WindowsXP’s new features from a clearly technical point of view?
Linus Torvalds: I don’t actually follow other operating systems much. I don’t compete – I just worry about making Linux better than itself, not others. And quite frankly, I don’t see anythign very interesting on a technical level in either.
6. What is your opinion on Hailstorm, .Net and the rest of the technologies Microsoft is preparing to roll out in the years to come? Can these releases have an impact on Linux and if yes, in what way?
Linus Torvalds: See my answer about not caring what the competition does, but doing my own thing as well as I can..
7. Do you believe that the oh-so-many Linux distributions are a good thing for Linux’s overall good and future, or a problem that creates forks and inconsistencies throughout the platform?
Linus Torvalds: Oh, choice is always hard. But we take it for granted in politics, and I take it for granted in Linux. Quite frankly, everybody has slightly different priorities, and working in lock-step simply isn’t a good idea. Never has been, never will be.
When somebody who is different shows himself to be different in a _good_ way, that’s how development happens.
8. What is your opinion on RMS insisting calling Linux as GNU/Linux?
Linus Torvalds: I don’t mind what rms calls the system. I don’t think his arguments for the naming are very valid, but hey, at the same time I really couldn’t care less.
9. There was quite some discussion on the kernel mailing list some time ago about making Linux _truely_ preemptive and tear down the “big giant lock” around the kernel, which brings a number of good things, but for a price. What is your opinion on the issue?
Linus Torvalds: On the SMP side we’ve pretty much done it. For all intents and purposes there is no big kernel lock in any important area, and Linux these days scales pretty well, without getting into the nightmare scenario that some UNIXes got to where the locking granularity got so fine that it started impacting performance.
Some people have been playing with using the same locks on UP too, creating a fully preemptible kernel. A lot of people are playing around with the patches, and we’ll see when/if I’ll integrate them into the standard tree. It’s not a high priority for me: they don’t add performance (like the SMP scalability does), and if they improve latency noticeably I’d really rather look at why the latency is bad in the first place.
So right now as far as I’m concerned it’s one of those “cool features” things, and it will need some prodding from the real world to show whether it is worth it.
10. How do you see the future of Linux for the next 5 or 10 years from an engineering but also a marketing eye?
Linus Torvalds: I don’t use a marketing eye, I simply don’t care. There are others who do, I’ll let them worry about it.
From a technical standpoint, I believe the kernel will be “more of the same”, and that all the _really_ interesting stuff will be going on in user space. That’s not to say that there aren’t problems to keep us occupied in the kernel too, I just don’t think they make for all that interesting reading 😉
11. Let’s think “big” for a moment. How do you see the general future of computing in the years to come? What kind of evolution is the next… revolution for software or hardware?
Linus Torvalds: I was never a “big thinker”. One of my philosophies in Linux has always been to not worry about the future too much, but make sure that we make the best of what we have now – together with keeping our options open for the future and not digging us into a hole.
And I’m not a big believer in revolutions. What people call revolutions in technology were more of a shift in perception – from big machines to PC’s (the _technology_ just evolved, fairly slowly at that), and from PC’s to the internet. The next “revolution” is going to be the same thing – not about the technology itself being revolutionary, but a shift in how you look at it and how you use it.
What’s that shift going to be? Who knows. Maybe it will have nothing directly to do with computers at all, just using computers to create new life-forms or whatever.. Where the _excitement_ is not the tool, but what you can do with it.
This interview from <a href=”http://welcome.to/menosoft“>my point of view demostrates that Linus is very arrogante, i expected a lot more from him, and I know for sure that what he says about him “not caring about anything!” its just a lie, its like living in denial, wich is simple stupid… i love linux, but this kind of lidership is not what linux needs.. too bad..
Go-go Linus!
Thanks for your execellent job so far, keep it up!
I can fully understand his point when he says he doesn’t care about other OSes because that is what I am doing as well… I switched all my computing environments to Linux everywhere I could: at home (SOHO&gaming), at work (servers,office), because Linux is able to do what I need and how I need it and does this in a manner that it still lets me scale it to the requirements of the given environment, and does all this under my supervision… not mentioning it stability.
What else could I want from my computing environment?
I consider myself a lucky winner who was born in such times when I can be the eye-witness of the growth of such a great OS.
Hi, Mr. B, whoever you could be, I liked what you wrote. My ‘Hi’ goes also to the other supporters of Linux!
That was an interesting interview! Linux developers really don’t need to care about what others do – they do it better anyway. BTW, rms looks totally jerk with that damn drape, don’t you agree?
How about a decent audio and MIDI sequencer, for example? Graphic and souncards you don’t need to configure, the OS detects them immediately and doesn’t bothers you one second? Otherwise, Linux -is- cool, I am using it every day, both at work and at home. But I don’t create my music on Linux because I can’t. And I don’t like the problems I have configuring hardware under Linux. Yes, I have been doing that for years now (Slackware user), but that doesn’t mean I like it.
But the primary problem is, Torvalds doesn’t care about anything. He doesn’t know what’s happening with other OS, but he knows there’s nothing technically interesting anyway (that’s a demented thing to say). And he very obviously has no vision, and that’s the most important problem Linux has. No vision, no future. It doesn’t mean I am not going ot use Linux (after all, I am an avid BeOS user, and BeOS has much less of a future than Linux does), but I am not going to bet the success of our programs on the Linux platform, not after this interview. Hobby is hobby, business is business. Linux is out.
I don’t care about Linux. I don’t need it.
Windows XP rules.
if only to provide me with a reliable solid OS. I have XP too, alongside other OS’s. What XP does *rule* at is bombing my system big time. Very sad for a release of new ‘reliable’ best-ever software from the Big Bloat.
Eye candy but questionable stability.
Don’t get me wrong; I have had problems too with programs under Linux, probably due to my own naivety. Each time I have been able to extricate myself and shutdown cleanly. Something I imagine is nigh impossible with any of the Bill creations.
Open Source has opened my eyes, and with a new release of (easy) Mandrake all my hardware is recognised and works. Top marks.
I like Linux a lot for what it offers, and comparisons between it and other OS’s are rife. But it’s good for me and in the end, that’s what counts.
Kickbust it Linus, and stay true to your ‘hobby’.
XP doesn’t have the vision-problem that Linux has, but it’s irrelevant because
1. it brings very little improvement to Windows 2000
2. companies are in save mode. Believe me, I know! Resistence to upgrade is great.
3. Microsoft’s newest licensing scheme has alienated many CIOs
4. XP is a resource hog. Upgrading to XP in most cases means upgrading your hardware, and that just enforces point 2.
Still, by the end of this year there will be more copies of Windows XP sold than Linux desktops (not servers) are in use now.
Linux came out of a guy who came up with an OS and said, “Hey, that’s neat,” and posts it. IMHO, he still appears to be that same guy. But a lot of opinions here seem to be that he should change. Why? Just because you’re hot to trot about marketing Linux doesn’t mean he has to be.
What I see in Linus:
He does care otherwise he wouldn’t continue to oversee the project. So he must care about the quality of work. But he’s an author and quality manager, not a marketer. If he was as you seem to think he SHOULD be, then he’d probably would have turned into another Bill Gates and gone of for the money grab. Is that what you want!? No. Linus controls the quality of the core component and lets others do the marketing. When you think about it, it’s really amazing that so many believe in this project that they’ll continue to improve and create new programs for it all without expecting a paycheck out of it. Do you think M$ programmers would have that much faith and dedication in Bill Gates that they’d work for free? Just because they thought Windows was wonderful?
Okay, you can stop rolling on the floor now. 😀
So, I guess my point is–let Linus be Linus and do what he’s best at. The rest of us will do what we’re best at, even if it’s only using the product and telling others about it. It’s been working (and growing!) for 10 years and I don’t see the momentum slowing down any time soon.
XP doesn’t have the vision-problem that Linux has, but it’s irrelevant because
1. it brings very little improvement to Windows 2000
but it brings big improvement to Windows 98/ME. Even microsoft said that there aren´t any big improvements over Windows 3000
2. companies are in save mode. Believe me, I know! Resistence to upgrade is great.
Yes but thats for another reason. “Never change a running system”
Companies should already be happy with Windows 2000 Server. No need to upgrade.
3. Microsoft’s newest licensing scheme has alienated many CIOs
your point
4. XP is a resource hog. Upgrading to XP in most cases means upgrading your hardware, and that just enforces point 2.
[ ] you tried Windows XP
[x] you haven´t tried XP yet
I think Linus should have been able to provide some decently interesting answers to the questions he was given, even if the questions weren’t good ones.
It is not professional and breeds a lack of confidence from people who have invested mind-share in Linux when you can’t come up with anything better to say than ‘I really don’t give a damn’ to the questions put to you. He should be able to fend off boring or hostile questions more articulately than that if he is going to consent to giving interviews in the first place. If he is going to talk like some kid with an attitude problem he should not bother giving interviews in the first place, it makes Linux look bad.
There are people out there who have quite a lot at stake when they choose Linux for corporate production systems and Linus needs to be aware that, like it or not, he is perceived as a leader and needs to make at least some effort to act like one and inspire some confidence in people – that is, if he really cares whether or not anyone uses Linux (particularly in the corporate world).
Frankly, when he says off-the-cuff things like “I think the MACH kernel/Mac OS X is just a piece of crap.” in high-profile interviews he comes off as being very amateurish and this reflects on people’s perception of Linux.
If he is not willing to grow up and show some respect for the people who have invested in his creation by acting responsibly and professionally, then I think the Linux user community would be better off if he would just stop giving interviews.
Regarding the last post (“Linus needs to grow up”)
I don’t think you can blame Linus for answering the way he did, I actually liked the interview, and thought to myself while reading it: “Oh my God, Linus must have answered these questions about a billion times…”
I think his carelesness can be interpreted in two ways:
1: He develops Linux because he likes it, it’s not like he’s earning millions here.
2: He likes developing Linux, but you’ll have to understand that it’s not him who is in charge of the entire development. He just started the thing, millions worldwide will have to do the worrying as well as him.
On the issue whether it’s good or bad for Linux to be reinventing programs similar to programs from other OS’s, I think that it’s good, it means that it’ll be revised from scratch, everything will be brand new, no old source code will remain. It’ll be optimized for todays hardware and todays needs…
– Anders K. Madsen
i think his attitude on things and the way he thinks is alot like the way i think…… well judging by this interview anyway… like for instance when he says this : Linus Torvalds: I’m a big non-believer in manual driver and kernel configuration, be it visual or not. Most of the stuff happens automatically, and we’re going to make that more and more common. Things like hot-plugging a device and the driver automatically getting loaded is how things are supposed to work, none of this “device manager” stuff.”
i could not agree with him more….. alot of people would say i’m wussy because of the whole “simpleness” of that idea but shit…. isn’t that what we all want? in a way it’s complete laziness…. we dont want to configuring shit for a long ass time to make it work (to an extent.. i like to tweak madly) or fucking reboot after installing anyfuckingthing..i hate that crap and i know alot of people out there do too.
Linus is a person.. dont hate him for being one… he can say what he likes.. just like we can here… he’s no different
hey folx you forget that Linus is not Linux, Billgates doesn’t code anymore, he became a marketing jerk. Linus codes, and doesn’t wanna play a bigger role than anyone developing Linux anywhere on the world. He’s one of us, not a leader. He began something that was picked up by others too. Thats all.
There are companies out there who want to get the most money out of Linux and those do care about making friendly and easy GUIs, why should Linus do so?
for you jerking choose another idol, or just learn how to code, and enjoy it!
tyu
think about it. really think about what he said. he said he doesn’t care. and that all he wants to do is make linux better than it is. i understand him completly. i mean he doesn’t want to be a leader. he just wants to develop the linux kernel cause that’s what he does for fun. and i understand that completly too.
see he didn’t put it on him self to be the leader of linux. everyone else did. i mean he didn’t wake up one day and say “oh i’m going to be the leader of a reveloution, by writing a kernel for an operating system that’s going to change the world completly and i’m going to give it out for free! that’s right free!!! so everyone will be able to put it on their computers and worship me!!”
i know it didn’t work out like that. i read a few pages out of his biography.he was board, it was winter, he had a computer, he sent out for mimix. it makes sense that he would do something like write a kernel or software or tear apart his computer he just bought. hell that’s what i did when i got bored of my i486, and now two years after that i know alot about computers than i ever would of. so, i understand linus.
and for blueeyes.
windowsxp is a resource hog. it doesn’t matter if you have used it. it’s posted everywhere that it takes alot. it takes 128 mgs of ram, 1.5gigs of hdd, and a pentuim 2 300mhz. now in days that’s not alot but to people in the linux world it is. cause in the linux world you can get a 486 or pentuim and make it a stable beauty. now to make linux stable with a gui it takes only 16mgs of ram, a i386 or i486 proccessor and maybe 100mgs to 500mgs minimum. now if making windows an improvement with that much resources then windows didn’t really make a step forward, it would of made a step backwards.
plus xp has a software agreement were you don’t own the software your just licencing it. meaning if m$ wants you to upgrade. you upgrade for what ever their asking or else.
mario: yes, I can fully understand you and your needs. Since I don’t create music (however, I’ve already thought about trying to…) I don’t know about such possibilities under Linux. I do agree that from a global view, Linux is not a perfect OS (show me one), however it is the _best of all_ for _my_ needs, for my computing environment. Not yours, unfortunately. I still state my previous subject: “What else could I want from my computing environment?”
But hey, you shouldn’t worry. Instead, raise your need(s) on the proper channel, since this is Open Source. You shouldn’t wait andexpect some other ppl decide what you need. Either start porting, coding or find ppl with similar needs and do something together. I am sure you could all do some neat stuff together.
At the very least e.g. write a petition to commercial software companies to port their music software to Linux. Put it out on the net, and let ppl support you.
“Use the source, Luke!”
The interview clearly shows that a technician is developing the kernel. Quite good, it garantees that the kernel will stay stable and state-of-the-art.
Every OS needs people that develop and other people that practice politics. Let Linus do what he is best at, let others do what is their profession.
One of the best parts of Linux is the way the kernel is seperated from userspace. Gives the users the chance to keep up to date with drivers, but at the same time the chance to use any program (even very old ones) they like. No need to update the distribution every two weeks for example.
By being itself the Linux-kernel leaves much of the “competition” behind. But please don’t compare things that aren’t compareble. It’s good to compare Linux used as a router with Cisco-routers, but don’t compare it with WindowsME at the same time. Or compare Linux/KDE/OpenOffice with WindowsME and Office2000, but not with HPLUX at the same time.
Anyway for me Linux is a good solution for my needs, for many others too, so Linus is doing a good job. As are many others.
I think it is ok for Linus to have this attitude. What makes this intervju boring is the kind of questions asked, since the editor could well have known the answers the from earlier interviews.
If you try to just keep reimplementing what others (FreeBSD, Micro$soft etc) does means loosing both the initiative and the FUN. I don’t think (my guess) that Linus literally doesn’t care about the other OS’s, but that he simply will not let other set his priorities regarding Linux.
Besided I think it is good that different OS’s have different priorities because that means more ideas get tested in parallel. Good ideas from whatever source eventually get included in most OS’s.
As for technical innovations i Linux, BSD etc. What is really new? Many (most?) things in todays computers are improved and standardized variants of conceots that appeared in real OS’s during the 60’s and 70’s. There aren’t many of us though that know these dinosaurs and even then the terminology is so different.
I completely agree with Obsidious. Why should it matter to Linus what anybody thinks of Linux. He is not running a company or a revolution. All the people that have climbed aboard to make money out of the work that Linus and the rest of the Linux community have done seem to be the ones that talk of war. All he has done is to make his work freely available to the rest of the world to use if they choose. In Return he has to suffer personal abuse and criticism. It is a sad world we live in these days.
After all,
Bill Gates,now he wasn’t really a developer per se, but a business man, and look at the beastie the ‘danes (mundanes) have received in return. Hey if Linus really was driving this movement, and paid attention to the market, Linux would be jockeying with the Sun’s of the world. How many of us home unix users really use Solaris?
Let Linus do what Linus has allways done, worry about the kernel code, that is what he does, and what he wants to do. If the rest of us think Linux is something worth `saving’ or `promoting’ or `developing’, then we will. We don’t need permission from Linus, he gave each of us the opportunity to delve into this x86 unix world, if we truly believe that the opportunity is worth preserving, then WE will accept that repsonsibility. Wether we do or not, Linus will take care of the kernel code, and a fairer division of labor I’ve rarely seen.
Last note: All you [[Debian|Red Hat|Mandrake|SuSe|Et.Al] Linux|[Free|Net|Open] BSD] zealots, give it a rest. This isn’t about Linux, or BSD, or even the hated Windoze, it’s about choice, it’s about the freedom to use and advocate (note, advocacy is not zealotry, advocacy is living your life as a Christain (if you are), zealotry is the sack of Jerusalem) for the system THAT WORKS FOR YOU. Each and every one of us has benfitted from the day Linus turned his child on the world. He may not have been the first, he may not have even done it the best. He did however open the door in many ways to the current Open Source movement, which has benefited us all. Let us stop our KDE/GNOME/WMAKER quibbles and out BSD/Linux quibbles, and stand together for the thing which really drove each and every one of us to the computer sitting in front of you, CHOICE!
|.r.
Mental Note, no Biblical allegories with the geek-speak crowd.
people call it linux because it rolls off the tongue easier, its nothing personal against RMS im sure, i dont even know why peopel argue about this, everyone who uses linux knows what GNU is and that linux is jsut a part of it, and they all love it.
Attitude…. if we were all as self focused, wouldn’t we experience more?
Article…. and I wasn’t being lulled with a ‘blue sky’ background….
Future…. Fifteen years of computing has taught me at least one thing – if it’s really that good, you’ll be able to see it……..
->Rick
I was reading Linus’ comments on kernel pre-emptibility when I asked myself, if pre-empting the kernel is a GOOD THING, in some circumstances, and most probably not in others, why do we not adopt a hierarchy of pre-emptibility a la OS/2’s priorities hierarchy?
Eg, for some purposes, pre-empting the kernel when it is about to do a file write would be very important – eg, avionics tracking distant aircraft in a TCAS; for other purposes, pre-empting the kernel when it is about to do a file write would be strictly “no-way, buddy!”, eg, a file server writing financial information to hard drive.
Perhaps I’m making sense, maybe I’m not. It’s just an idea.
The interview shows clearly how inteligent Linus realy is, it is not easy to answer so many questions without saying nothing.
Personally, i loved Linus’ interview. He thinks like i do, dont worry about things that don’t really matter. just make yourself happy and its all good.
Also, would we really want him looking at other OS’s very often? i mean, sure, lets let him take after soemthing like microsoft, maybe he’ll come out with LinuXP and then he could charge 300$ a pop for it to! His stuff will be good if it comes right out of his instead of modeling it after soemthing else.
Hes a leader (a laid back leader yes), not a follower, and that why linux will do well, even though HE doesn’t market it.
The Lindows Connection
http://home.iprimus.com.au/chrisjohn316/the_lindows_connection.html