theKompany.com was initially into desktop applications but has turned its attention to the embedded market since 2001 and has just released a VoIP product, tkcPhone. Shawn Gordon was interviewed about the company, his work and general Linux issues, including KDE/Gnome and Red Hat 8 issues.
theKompany: Red Hat 8’s KDE is a Developer’s Nightmare
About The Author
Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
Follow me on Twitter @EugeniaLoli
As much as there isn’t an easy way to make an rpm that will work on a variety of Linux distros.
He DID say that RedHat made KDE suck in RH8 which is true.
This is an extremely misleading headline, it’s as if theKompany only blames RedHat.
The current situation is an absolute and utter nightmare. When we started three and a half years ago you could make an RPM and pretty much without exception any RPM based system could use it. Now not only are RPMs not compatible between distributions, they aren’t even compatible between versions of distributions.
gcc 2.95 static and shared
gcc 3.2 static and shared
RedHat 7.2, 7.3, 8.0
Mandrake 8.1, 8.2, 9.0
SuSE 7.3, 8.0, 8.1
Slackware 8.0, 8.1
Caldera 3.1
Now add Debian and PowerPC to the mix. At the moment Debian is almost hopeless because it is so outdated as a desktop OS, it’s great for the server, but they are still on KDE 2 and only just started looking at gcc 3.2 the other day. I appreciate that they don’t update every six months, but it’s just too slow to update and because almost everyone is finding their own version of KDE3 for Debian and updating their libraries, it’s pretty hard to make a package that will work on Debian since no one is running anything standard.
A better headline would be that “Lack of standarisation in distribution is a developer’s nightmare”.
And offcourse absolutely no mention of Lycoris, Xandros that had to do alot of patching to KDE too, making it incompatible with existing KDE3 applications. (And alot more so than RedHat8 in my experience, never had problems compiling something for RH8 Kde).
OpenSource gives you a right to change code. Don’t be shocked if someone actually does so… If you want to support their platform, download their cvs and beta releases, and make your code better, so a simple recompile is enough.
He DID say that RedHat made KDE suck in RH8 which is true.
Funny, RH8 KDE is actually the first KDE I *liked*. In my opinion they made it alot nicer. I also didn’t have problems compiling a KDE application for it..
I wonder if you have actually read the whole interview:
““. I don’t know what the truth is, but I know I don’t care for what happened with Red Hat 8, it was really a nightmare for us as a software vendor to adapt and support it.”
He didn’t say it sucks under RH. He says it is a developer’s nightmare. there’s a difference.
I wonder if you have actually read the whole interview:
“I don’t know what the truth is, but I know I don’t care for what happened with Red Hat 8, it was really a nightmare for us as a software vendor to adapt and support it.”
Yes, I know you read that one sentence. Did you read the part where all the other distributions were a nightmare too?
But for some reason it’s all RH8’s fault. It always is, isn’t it? (eventhough every single major distributions make patches to the software to integrate and improve it into their distribution)
>But for some reason it’s all RH8’s fault. It always is, isn’t it?
On Monday and Tuesday I was accused that I am anti-Apple. On Wednesday I was told that I am pro-MS, while yesterday I was accused that I was doing free marketing for Apple. Today, I am accused that I am anti-RH. Tomorrow…
Bottomline is, that sentence stands out, the guy did had more to say about RH’s issues. Get over it.
>But for some reason it’s all RH8’s fault. It always is, isn’t it?
On Monday and Tuesday I was accused that I am anti-Apple. On Wednesday I was told that I am pro-MS, while yesterday I was accused that I was doing free marketing for Apple. Today, I am accused that I am anti-RH. Tomorrow…
Bottomline is, that sentence stands out, the guy did had more to say about RH’s issues. Get over it.
Errrr. I guess reducing the time you spend on OSNEWS doesn’t help you much either…
Heh… Maybe you should take a vacation… Somewhere with a nice beach, or go camping in a very scenic part of the world…
I guess this place is just… anti-Eugenia.
—
For crying out loud, give the guy a BREAK! Without him, who knows how much news we’d be getting from this site.
>Maybe you should take a vacation
I just came back from one. I do not work on osnews as much as I used to. I have already turned down interviews with companies and writting longer articles. I only write newsbits there days pretty much, which do not take much time.
you know what they say in the journalism biz……
if you get attacked from the right and from the left you must be doing something correct.
Walter Cronchite(sp?) first spoke that and it still holds true for you Eugenia…keep up the good journalism.
>if you get attacked from the right and from the left you must be doing something correct.
now the question is if you can apply it to RedHat too?
>now the question is if you can apply it to RedHat too?
Does RedHat do good journalism?
Yeah, that’s destiny of shiny journalist.
I remember people also said you’re anti-Mozilla, anti-BeOS – what else?
lol..
Situation 1: Red Hat applies patches to Qt/KDE to make it use the new font system (which is going to be the standard unix font system once XFree 4.3 has been released).
People say that Red Hat crippled KDE and that it sucks.
Situation 2: Red Hat doesn’t apply patches to Qt/KDE to make it use the new font system.
People say that Red Hat crippled KDE and that it sucks because it doesn’t use the nice font config system which is used in that other DE.
This article is completly egocentric. KDE is certainly a nightmare for developpers, but this guy miss the essential, KDE is first nightmarish for users… And i really don’t care of the comfort of somebody fool enough to program on KDE. The only quality of KDE is to be a fantastic Linux troll attractor. This imitation of software is really unsurpassable on this topic.
That doesn’t matter.
The main thing is to read Eugenia with her excellent and appropriate criticism.
I don’t know what the truth is, but I know I don’t care for what happened with Red Hat 8, it was really a nightmare for us as a software vendor to adapt and support it.
> This article is completly egocentric.
Well, of course it is. The interview was about his company. What else did you expect him to talk about? World peace and stopping the pollution?
Haha, good one.
Gnome-user: KDE sucks
KDE-user: gnome sucks
Redhat-user: mandrake, debian, suse, gentoo, …. suck
Debian-user: redhat, slackware, suse, mandrake, … suck
Suse-user: redhat, lindows, xandros, mandrake, debian … suck
Linux-users: X suck
Geckobrowser-users: khtml suck
you suck
KDE and Redhat are definitely at the forefront of open source development. I use KDE on Redhat and think it rocks. Although there are a few issues, I think the fonts are worth it. As long as either Redhat continues to include KDE or Gnome becomes mature enough to actually use*, I’ll be happy.
* I keep trying out Gnome from time to time, but its window placement drives me back to KDE instantly. Sun should’ve improved CDE rather than switch to Gnome!
“KDE is first nightmarish for users… And i really don’t care of the comfort of somebody fool enough to program on KDE. The only quality of KDE is to be a fantastic Linux troll attractor”
Wow Xavier what a troll you are. You sound like a twelve year old who goes around bashing any WM that doesn’t get your oh so important seal of approval. Grow up already, your the one acting like a Troll.
I think the story is this. Redhat realized that they would loose the Linux desktop and maybe more to SuSE (and Mandrake and UnitedLinux) unless they did something radical. Because as the article says, KDE/Qt IS superior to GNOME/Gtk. In concept, implementation and organization. Also, it does not have its origins in America. An article by Redhat at BlueCurve’s introduction stated that the maintenance of 2 desktops was becoming a nightmare for Redhat. I don’t believe it. It must be harder having to blend 2 individually developed desktops into one for every release. Another argument was that 2 desktops are confusing for the user. I don’t believe that either. Sure, GNOME carries some less used apps not in KDE and visa versa. Rather I think Redhat went for join them if you cannot beat them – but without loosing face. And they solved that problem pretty well. However, the competition between GNOME and KDE was a healthy thing. I hope this move by Redhat does not in general in the long run dampen the enthusiam in the KDE camp. It looks to me like the waters now are dividing between Redhat/Bluecurve and SuSE/KDE rather than between GNOME and KDE. But maybe now even Redhat will chip in on KDE as did Apple with Safari.
If she did (still can’t imagine JLG approving), I wonder why *Europe*? Thailand is cheaper after all.
(preface: i use kde most of the time, until i started testing redhat 8…which i have left the gnome default as is…and i must say that i really like the gnome/redhat desktop)
now…
i don’t really see a gnome vs kde war.
gnome people might flame me, but i think KDE is better.
gnome will not catch kde.
but redhat will. (and hence eventually gnome)
because…what i see is a redhat vs kde war.
i think that the two entities have opposing viewpoints.
*kde wants to supply a desktop to all the distributions.
*redhat wants to be the only distribution.
for a long time kde was focused on beating gnome in features and usability…they’ve won that race…quite a ways back. (we are talking strictly desktop, not gnome apps or kde apps…a lot of gnome apps kick ass)
gnome, was focused on the race too…but they had an additional goal….stay in redhat’s back pocket.(smart)
where redhat goes, gnome goes. and as long as gnome keeps tight with redhat…if & when redhat makes it’s move to the masses…gnome is in, and kde is out…regardless of the which one is superior. (we’ve seen better technologies get rebuffed all the time)
the big game of which distro is going to grab millions of corporate and home seats, in the future, is definitely now coming in to view. before it was just “make a distro that geeks will like & use, and that’s how we will compete”
now… many have realized that linux is poised to make the leap to the masses..and now some distros are jockying to be a part of that leap…some are better positioned then others.
and redhat looks like it’s the leader.
standards is the battle field.
my intuition tells me that redhat thinks that when it comes to standards….kde is a huge liability.
and then i read the article.
kde might as well hold up a massive banner “WE’RE A LIABILITY IN THE STANDARDS WAR”….just look what happens when you create a desktop that can run on every distro…it’s altered, bastardized, patched, modded, skinned etc. KDE would like you to believe that it’s not their fault and it’s the distros making problems for them. i see it as a built in function of how they position themselves.
they made their bed.
so it’s not about gnome vs. kde anymore.
it’s about kde vs. redhat.
if redhat continues on it’s path…kde has two choices:
1. change redhat’s mind, become redhat’s desktop of choice and support redhat’s distro first and foremost
2. pick another distro most likely to give redhat the most competition and tightly integrate with that alt distro (cough *suse*)
my comments relate to linux and the masses.
the slackwares, debians, and gentoos are here to stay.
a raw, no frills approach distros will always be around….the only thing is that the new flashy or commercial apps that a redhat/gnome or suse/kde standards leader could attract would not work on our truer to the spirit distros. (or the BSDs for that matter)
the great thing about linux is you got the freedom to modify the source code. in windows you got also a multitude of toolkits, which just happen to use the same resources for theming.
maybe someone write a xml-spec for themeing resources that gnome as well as kde can use. all you need then is the same theme engines like redhat did.
what i like most about kde/qt is the fact that you can specify the colors of your widgets in a simple app, instead of having to delve into the chasm of gtkrc’s
Actually, even Microsoft Office doesn’t use Win32 widgets. If you run stuff like ICQ or Opera or OpenOffice.org, you would notice that it isn’t consistent with Windows if it is themed (WindowsBlinds or if you are using XP).
Besides, a unified theme format have been suggested for ages. Yet not one person manage to find a proper technical way to approach it. Why? GTK+ and Qt technically are worlds apart. They are built and coded differently.
Yes, RedHat supports Gnome, and has a history of not supporting KDE (in the past it wasn’t even included in the distribution).
I totally disagree however that the changes they’ve done to KDE in RH8 are meant to drive people away from KDE and to Gnome.
They have patched it to use Xft2 and FontConfig, and finally gave the linux desktop a polished look before all other distributions. Qt 3.1 now already contains this built in, mozilla offers RPMs for RH8 compiled with it, and I believe it will be adopted as a stadard by everyone else sooner or later.
They have patched KDE to use some of FreeDesktop.org’s draft standard specifications. In hope for a fuller compatability between KDE’s and Gnome’s API in the future.
They have removed MP3 support. Because it’s not a multimedia oriented distro? No, because Ogg Vorbis is the new free open stadard.
They have created a unified theme for KDE and Gnome (and a bunch of other things). I use and always used KDE and not Gnome, but at least now I don’t need to see the terribly ugly Gtk theme in Gtk-based-GUI-apps running in my KDE desktop.