Submitted by The new Pi sounds like a beast.
Let’s get the good stuff out of the way above the fold. Raspberry Pi 2 is now on sale for $35 (the same price as the existing Model B+), featuring:
- A 900MHz quad-core ARM Cortex-A7 CPU (~6x performance)
- 1GB LPDDR2 SDRAM (2x memory)
- Complete compatibility with Raspberry Pi 1
Because it has an ARMv7 processor, it can run the full range of ARM GNU/Linux distributions, including Snappy Ubuntu Core, as well as Microsoft Windows 10.
That’s not all. Microsoft has announced a free version of Windows 10 for IoT for the new Pi.
“Windows 10 is the first step to an era of more personal computing. This vision framed our work on Windows 10, where we are moving Windows to a world that is more mobile, natural and grounded in trust”
So. Hem. Okay.
What does that even mean?
PR BS combo, as usual…
Let’s answer that last question first:
it means some people from the marketing department got involved.
I’m not sure how Windows 10 is more personal than the ‘personal computer’ older versions of Windows ran on.
Although mobile devices are very personal too of course.
Maybe that is what they mean ?
I don’t know, but what marketing says and what they want is usually something else.
Maybe what they want is a lot worse: they want you to do more personal things on your devices running Windows so they can shove it all in their cloud so they can have more control over you and take even more of your privacy.
That is Microsoft PR blabla for “has Cortana”
(which means that it is not the first Windows to have that since Cortana also is in WP81 and also uses that “more personal” slogan)
It means your dog will be your second best friend, after Microsoft (or Windows). Maybe.
Edited 2015-02-03 03:54 UTC
I have no interest in windows on the PI though… Since it won’t be able to run any existing windows software, I’ll stick to Linux.
The PI2 is a lovely upgrade 🙂
I probably wouldn’t run Windows on the Pi, but it’s nice to have choices.
Microsoft hasn’t never been as interesting as it is today for 20 years. It’s great for them to fall behind in some areas.
Edited 2015-02-02 13:49 UTC
[corny]So Microsoft wants to get in for their slice of the Pi.[/corny]
But seriously, I don’t really think Windows on the Pi will go anywhere. Being the lumbering behemoth that it is, Microsoft missed this boat just as hard as it did the mobile market. There’s already a huge ecosystem in place for the Pi… running Linux. This seems every bit as hard for Microsoft to get a foothold as it is for Linux to establish itself on Microsoft’s desktop market turf. As for the new generation of techies, Windows is no longer cool or desirable. It’s just what people use on the desktop to get boring work done because they think they have no other choice. All the cool stuff runs Linux.
Microsoft has needed to Pi for a long time.
There’s also Odroid C1: 1.5Ghz, Quad Core dev board, running Linux, also $35: http://www.hardkernel.com/main/products/prdt_info.php
Edited 2015-02-02 14:18 UTC
I think it’s really cool that the creation of the Pi has created competition. That board looks really nice.
The udoo.org is also interresting, more GPIO, Arduino Due compatible, but some drivers are close sourced :/
But there’s no denying that the Pi has the community, not least the number of hardware modules specifically designed for it.
Get the developer market tinkering and playing with windows in their spare time. Familiarise themselves with MS technology stack. Bit of luck, the next ‘big thing’ will be based on windows. And what did MS need to do? Give a free licence to those that wouldnt buy one anyway.
Currently, you still get more jobs in embedded Linux than embedded Windows. Perhaps they want this as a game changer ? The license price will be the key anyway…
I think its fair to say that a decent portion of the Pi’s market is non-traditional embedded market where there is more scope to expand into.
The target market here is the hobbyists and tinkerers, not the QNX / system on chip lot. If Windows gets you up and running quicker, then thats what people will use.
(I am ignoring the distinction between what is and isn’t ’embedded’ as i’m not sure if that is the point you were after making)
Windows getting you up quicker ? Have you ever used Image Builder or installed their SDK ? It’s like it’s 4 times heavier than Windows itself, not speaking about the updates…
You dont have to run your dev env on the pi.. Indeed, that would be madness.
What I mean is its very easy and quick to install applications to get your desired setup running.
Edit: – adding an example
An example of an easy setup would be if you hooked your Pi up to a Kinect to do something clever. Kinects Can be connected via linux but MS provide an application pre-made for windows embedded
Edited 2015-02-02 17:15 UTC
They’re making it harder and harder to keep putting off buying a PI (not because of Windows mind you). I may have to relent and get one, soon!
The Pi v1, with ARMv6 700 MHz & 512MB RAM was very much in the category of “embedded computer” but now, with ARMv7, Quad 900 MHz, 1 GB RAM is an actual basic PC. That’s easily enough to run a Linux DE / browser / media player.
There’s companies that could turn this thing into a NUC-like PC for very cheap.
I have an ARM Chromebook with a desktop Linux installed, which can do most of what I need if I don’t mind using a kind of strange keyboard and a smaller screen.
Specs:
http://www.chromium.org/chromium-os/developer-information-for-chrom…
The Chromebook has a dual core 1.7 Ghz ARMv7 cpu with 2GB of memory, I can confirm 900Mhz and 1GB might be enough.
I’m now using just Firefox and the DE, it easily has more than 1GB free.
There is a reason Canonical tried to get desktop applications running on mobile phones…
TVs also have more memory and faster CPUs, so how long until they can also run that ?
Microsoft also tried to combine mobile devices with desktop/laptop.
It’s getting closer and closer.
Mmm, I thought Windows 10 wouldn’t have an RT version. This is almost the same? Running on ARM and all?
Rather lame attempt to compete with Linux, but hey – competition is good.
What’s lame about it? troll harder shmerl.
First, congrats to the Pi guys for the new hardware. It’s looking fantastic.
Second…
What does this say about Microsoft?
– That they’re at least late to the game
– That Windows 10 still requires a Quad-core 900MHz processor and 1 GB RAM to run.
So don’t expect much from it. It’ll be slow to run Windows on a Pi2. Expect to see a lot of “tried it, but the performance just isn’t there” for those that are already in the market doing stuff, while the next generation will simply not realize the choice – which is what MS hopes for.
Do you people even read the linked articles before commenting? The main barrier to Windows on Raspberry PI was that it used the old ARMv6 architecture. The Pi 2 is ARMv7.
Also, currently the Windows 10 on IoT was more like Arduino than a full featured Windows system. It may change eventually and it may support universal apps, but that’s currently not the case.
What’s the problem with ARMv6 ? Linux have been successfully compiled against ARMv6 so I see nothing preventing Windows from being compiled against ARMv6 too. It’s just a compiler thing, even though Microsoft didn’t open sourced Windows, they still can provide an ARMv6 image.
If you think it is just a compiler thing than you have probably never worked on an operating system port or porting a large project to a different processor platform.
Windows (except for CE, which is completely different system) was never ported to ARMv6. Linux supported ARMv6 even before Raspberry Pi existed.
So what? The point is that Microsoft could if they wanted to, unless of course Windows is too heavy for such an environment (very likely), which again is why more will stick with Linux even on the Pi2 B+ because it will be more useful to them.
MS is only offering it to try to recapture mindshare in a market they’ve already lost. They’re playing catch up and while they’ve done well with that in the past, it’s not as likely to work this time as the dev community has is more focused on things that bring performance in those environments where often times every cycle can still be critical (especially when working with some of the add-ons).
You have to be able to write and use your own device drivers; which since Vista 64-bit and every version of Windows 7 and later has not been possible without hacking the Registry to disable checks – but that is a central thing for add-ons to the Rasberry Pi systems.
Linux makes that easy while remaining secure.
TemporalBeing,
It’s exactly this policy from microsoft that caused me to cease windows kernel development after XP. Since microsoft stopped authorize end users/devs to be in control over what can be installed in our own system kernels, I’ve made the decision to stick with platforms that are more friendly towards indy developers.
Is the Rasberry Pi windows kernel locked down? Maybe MS has realized that they can’t pull this kind of BS with the Rasberry Pi crowd, but even so it’d be too little too late for me, I can’t trust them not to take control away if/when they feel they can get away with it again.
Edited 2015-02-03 04:46 UTC
I think MS is offering Win10 for Pi so that the users can show where there may have a market. This is brilliant. MS doesn’t need to test anything. Let the tinkerers come up with the software and the reasons why anyone would want to buy one. Maybe it’ll power my new LED sign (if and when I get one). They are showing some deep thinking here and, at the same time, coming off as the good guys.
Except that to interface with that LED sign you will need a driver; and to write a driver you will need to be able to test it, and unless you are going to modify the Registry to disable driver signing, that won’t be possible.
Now, may be they changed it for the Pi2 version, but I still go back to the fact that they are not releasing a version for the original Pi which has a far larger market at present – you have to have a Pi2 – which speaks volumes about the performance requirements, and will mean that Windows won’t be much use on a Pi2 either because it will eat most of the performance that apps and devices will need.
And it is far easier to develop devices for Linux than it is for Windows. So tinkerers will stick more to using Pi2 with Linux than they will with trying to do the work on Windows.
For instance, it won’t be much use if you have to use Visual Studios on a laptop/desktop to write the device driver for the Pi2; when you can write and debug it under Linux on the Pi2 already. And Visual Studios probably will eat up so much of the performance that trying to write and test a device driver on a Pi2 will not be very efficient either.
I think you’re right, but at the same time, MS hasn’t been hiding the minimum requirements for Windows, which haven’t really changed since Vista.
Requirements for Win7/8/10 are actually lighter than Vista was.
In part because their MinWin project had contributed more back, and in part because they’ve been able to optimize more. Additionally Win8 had to support low-end devices (phones) more closely so they ripped a lot of stuff (f.e Aero) that had higher performance requirements.
Still, it’s not exactly a light weight OS, making even GNOME and KDE look like XFCE in comparison.
Not the official requirements, which are the same. Just the real world requirements
First: Great news, ive already orderet two
Second: no where does it say anything in the MS statement, that its going to be the “desktop” version:
“We’re excited to announce that we are expanding our Windows Developer Program for IoT by delivering a version of Windows 10 that supports Raspberry Pi 2. This release of Windows 10 will be free for the Maker community through the Windows Developer Program for IoT.”
The phone version would make much more sense from a ms work amount aspect, but im not sure how that will work from a maker aspect, will that mean you have to develop “universal apps” for it and no powershell
I think the only reason ms is doing this, is they know android will run on this and they dont want to be left behind again. It has the potential to become a great tv gadget with apps.
There’s another article here:
http://www.wired.com/2015/02/internet-anything-microsoft-brings-fre…
Explaining a little more, possibly. For instance:
“Last April, the company announced Windows for Internet of Things, a free version of the operating system for devices with screens smaller than nine inches wide. ”
The version of windows also won’t be open source which, in my view, means MS won’t really be competing with Linux. Not sure what advantage Windows would have over Linux in that environment?
I wonder what other limitations and provisos will be attached. It just seems so stupid to me. They should be giving away the Windows OS for free and without limitation. They’re so damned determined to cling to their old marketing model. Denial. Until this changes, MS will continue its long, slow slide into irrelevance.
They are giving away an operating system and developer tools for free. And Visual Studio is one of the best integrated development environments on the market. And the developer tools are gradually being open sourced.
They may be able to attract developers and tinkerers to the Windows platform or they may be able to attract current Windows developers to use Raspberry Pi as a basis for their future projects. Either way I see it as a win-win situation as long as one isn’t an open source die hard fanatic.
Edited 2015-02-02 21:36 UTC
“They are giving away an operating system and developer tools for free.”
Sort of… I’m sure there are specific use cases that would favor Windows, but in general I’m not seeing the advantage, especially given that it causes MS severe heartburn, hives and frontal lobe epilepsy to give *anything* away for free, They’ll include a novel-length list of limitations and provisos, and I just don’t see the “tinkering crowd”, which is who they seem to be wooing, putting up with that sort of nonsense, esp. when Linux gives them absolute free reign. It’s not like I’m rooting against MS, by the way (being invested in them after all); but the days of picking wallets with their OS are over (though they’re making plenty off Android — and that may end soon).
Edited 2015-02-02 22:02 UTC
Don’t worry, it’ll perhaps be of that Windows 7 Starter Edition line of OS where you cannot even change the background picture and open more than 4 windows.
“They’ll include a novel-length list of limitations and provisos,”
At least for both the current and the next VS, the limitation on the free version is no more than 5 developers in an organization.
Larger customers won’t have access to the free editions (>250 PCs, or >$1 Million annual revenue).
Beyond that, it is feature-complete without limitation on usage. If your organization is using it in a classroom environment, doing research, or writing open source software, you have access to unlimited free licenses.
Edited 2015-02-03 11:07 UTC
“Beyond that, it is feature-complete without limitation on usage.”
Unless you know something the rest of the world doesn’t (or work for MS) not sure how you know that? Last I heard was the following:
“The exact licensing terms for Windows for IoT have yet to be released, but ZDnet reports there will likely be several versions of the operating system.” ~ WIRED
Reread the first sentence I wrote: I am explicitly referring to the licensing terms for Visual Studio.
Edited 2015-02-03 18:47 UTC
It’s not really sort of. They are giving them away for free. If you don’t see the advantage, that’s another thing altogether.
MS going cross-platform, and people are complaining.
It’s not like anyone who installs Win10 on Pi2, is locked into it. The Pi’ can still run other software you know. It gives more choices, and you are complaining? (are people so afraid of choices today, that they are confused like a headless chicken)
I mean… Why bash MS over this, they are just going for what apple has done in the past. Just in a broader way.
ASP.NET are open sourced, and cross-platformed.
Win10 is going cross platform.
Win10 programs/apps are going cross-platform/devices.
What are you all complaining about?
It’s great to see. And the P2 is still P1 compatible.
Edited 2015-02-03 07:56 UTC
brostenen,
Who exactly are you responding to? I don’t think anybody has complained about “MS going cross-platform”. However I think the sentiment against microsoft comes from their own history of exerting control and lock in. It’s too early to assert that they won’t try this again here.
It’s probably not coincidental, I suspect there is a causal relationship here between apple and MS vendor locked platforms. When MS saw that a company could be this successful with a vendor-locked product, all of MS became focused on this unified vision of vendor locking everything with Metro and the windows store. MS is doing everything it can to make itself a middle man to impose substantial fees and control over every software transaction. I’d wager a guess that this is probably where MS is ultimately headed with Windows on the R-Pi. But this is only speculation of course, only time will tell.
Aww, and I only just got a Pi B+ a month ago… Oh well, I guess I’ll find something to do with it
Same here. And my main reason for getting a Pi was that I wanted a cheap Linux computer to play around with. My main OS at home is OS X, but I muck about with Debian servers almost daily at work. The B+’s major drawback is that it’s so damn slow. The new version 2 looks like it might actually be fast enough to use as a desktop computer. At that price point it’s impossible to not buy one of those as well.
At least the B+ is faster than the 500 MHz iBook G3 I’ve been toying with so far.
some downsides:
– the 10/100 ethernet still hangs off the USB bus.
– the USB still uses a polling driver.
With 4 cores the above USB load will not be as noticeable. IO throughput is still a weak point with the rpi2.
The odroid c1 has a dedicated ethernet port and I believe a dma type USB controller.
A positive is that one day the rpi shouldn’t require any binary blobs. The mali on the odroid c1 will still be hamstrung by the mali gpu as arm continues to be stubborn about providing necessary data and code.
The utter lameness of ARM and the soc manufacturers never ceases to amaze me.
Edited 2015-02-03 23:53 UTC