“Apple has been busy patenting everything under the sun it seems, and some of those patents may promise interesting things to come. Others might make you stop, scratch your head and ask “huh, you can do that?” If you want to see the full list of Apple’s published patents and pending patent applications, just visit the US Patent & Trademark Office (USPTO). For those that don’t crave reading through hundreds of patents, here’s a quick patent round-up of user interface, program, hardware, and otherwise interesting developments from Apple.” Read the article at MacObserver.
Reading The Apple Patent Tea Leaves
About The Author
Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
Follow me on Twitter @EugeniaLoli
If apple are going to win back 2% Market share they have to keep what it is that makes them different. If they cannot compete on speed, the next best thing is design and implementation.
Apple will be lucky if it wins back even 2%, all they did was patent everything under the sun so in case anyone tried to use it they would be screwed, I guess this means no dialog sheets in KDE 3.2, and besides that Patents have nothing to do with winning back marketshare. The standard is in x86 wins, its a shame Apple as well as Sun and SGI are continuing to pump money into dead horses ie. Their own hardware. I mean we saw 1 ghz back in the latter half of 1999, Apple just made 1 ghz and a little above that and a Mac user sits there and trys to tell me tat his 1 gig G4 is faster than my Pentium 4 2.66 Ghz, riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. But they get excited about this stuff and its really, really sad. When you see me at Macworld I am the only man there with Sanity, I have my Sony Vaio with SuSE Linux 8.1, and yes I can hook up the wireless networks out there.
Oh dear, another PC user who hasn’t got a clue about anything. No, I doubt it is as fast as your machine but it is does not run at the 1Ghz you understand. Your are comparing apples and oranges (x86 and PPC)
Altivec gives massive improvements to applications that support it, ie photoshop and the performance on a mac for applications such as that are very impressive.
Besides, I bought a mac because I liked OSX (not available on PC), stability and a rich and vibrant community of users.
Think about it, how long does computers and software in general exist? Let’s make it easy, and say 100 years. And let’s make it again easy by saying that architecture exists for 2000 years. (yeah yeah, there was architecture long before that too)
Take a software patent that lasts 50 years. That’s half of computing history. That’s the equivalent of 1000 years in architecture. That’s windows made of glass that are not generally available. How is progress possible if you can’t use some very basic techniques freely? It would be mighty hard for architects to build new houses if they can’t just freely use designs that are 200 years old.
How can anyone make a modern spreadsheet these days if there is a patent on what happens if you press enter in a spreadsheet environment? You just hope that the company that has that patent won’t ask you to pay. (I think IBM has that particular patent afaik).
We are quickly losing all freedoms via changes in our laws that benefit only the very rich. Bogus patents like these allow corps way too much power and prevent innovation. How is a gui front-end to cron or any other mature character-based program worthy of a patent? It is not. The US Patent Office needs to be closed and all software (it’s only math after all) patents invalidated before it is impossible for anyone to write a line of code without having a lawyer present.
Altivec doesnt give any speed improvements except for the fastest Mac user going to the Apple stores for Apples hype to buy it. Many PC companies have done benchmarks comparing Apples G4 to the Pentium 4, Gateway with the Profile 4, Sony, and Dell and in all the benchmarks Apple loses everytime. Wake up and smell the coffee, Apple is going to die and all you brainwashed morons will actually have to use a PC and you will see, hey its not that bad after all, Dave, OS X sucks, nothing nice and vibrant about it, just another proprietary UNIX for Linux to finish killing off.
nvidia sucks, pc sucks, roberto sucks
I have a 400 mhz G3 and a 1.7 Ghz Athlon machine. I use my Mac all the time. The athlon just sorta sits there. Even at 1/4 the speed, my mac (with Jaguar) is far more pleasant to use.
Apple is going to die. Sure. It’s been dying for 15 years.
US Patent Office employees should all be fired. A patent on a trash icon ? What were they smoking ? Even worse, the icon depicted looks exactly like those we see in the catalogs of stores like Wal-Mart. So, if another designer had bought the same brand of trash 🙂 he would have been prevented to sell his drawing to Sun or Microsoft for inclusion in their OS ?
To those who wonder, this isn’t the only case where one can smell bribery. In Canada, the Health Minister recently acknowledged the right for pharmaceutical companies to file for patents that last for 20 years. In other words, that politician assumes that until 2022, neither Canadian nor US chemists will be able to discover drugs similar to those which have been patented …
I agree with you, Kevin. I have an AMD 1800 and a Celeron 1.2Ghz laptop and yet I use my girlfriends iBook as much as I can. And Roberto… I don’t even own a mac but I use one a lot which is why I can give an objective, unbiased opinion.
These monthly reminders that Apple is indeed a megacorporation really help. I sometimes start thinking that they are actually doing some good in this world by contributing to opensource (Safari/Konqueror). Well, at least Bill is doing something about the 3rd world countries. And GNU/FSF along with other opensource and freeware initiatives has produced tons of free software. And Steve Jobs has… umm… what the hell has that guy done?
I think Apple is reacting to everyone else patenting everything.. Apple was not loke this before and now you have companies patenting pretty much everything.
Now we have to see what Apple does with the patents.
As for the comment about Linux killing apple, yea in the server market I would agree. But sorry linux is to difficult for the desktop. Your average joe schmoe doesn’t want to use make files to install software
as a non-expert in patents law… i feel restricted by this news.
I have 5 macs myself and I use the PC’s more so hows that for unbiased. Yes, IMHO Mac OS X sucks, I have only one that I maintain that is OS X based the rest of em have SuSE Linux 7.3 PowerPC edition.
Linux roules!!! Alot more advanced than OS X and more fun to use.
Has anyone patented a smiley icon?
I’m off to get myself some patent forms and a US visa. Gravey train, here I come!!!
Seriously though, granting a patent for an icon is just ridiculous. That is what copyright law is there for.
We really are heading to the point where you infringe someones IP if you so much as fart in a particular way.
I agree with all the above comments about the state of the Patent Office, in all countries not just US. There needs to be a system for protecting inventors but the current one is just getting abused by the corporations. It would be interesting to try and figure out a better system to replace it.
For example BT claiming they had a patent on hyperlinks, obviously nonsense considering all the prior art but they got the patent. Or that company that got a patent on a spieces of rice that had been cultivated since the start of recorded history.
These are hopefully just defencive patents to try and stop Apple getting rolled by someone that had decided to take out patents like the two I mentioned above, rather than to try and make other peoples lives a problem. I think that they are probably going to have to play nice, with the FSF movement at least, simply because of the current market position as niche player. They can’t afford bad publicity. All the good publicity they’ve gathered from the way that they’ve worked with the FSF movement could be destroyed by one bad desision on this. Which would put them in the same mind space as Microsoft, not a good place to be when you haven’t got a monopoly and 40 billion in the bank.
Please there have been some good comments so far but the PC trolls are already starting to pop up with all ht usual arguments (OSX sucks, but we want it on x86 so we can download it off Kazaa. Linux is going to kill it, Microsoft is going to kill it, a giant astoroid is going to kill it. Its far to slow, etc.) This has all been said before and it would be nice to talk about what they are actually doing rather than rehashing all the old aurguments again.
Chris
Who is this roberto? What is he 12 years old. What an imbecile.
Oh for crying out loud, Apple got a design patent for the trash can, not a utility patent! A design patent simply covers a specific look of something – it has nothing to do with utility or functionality!
In other freakin’ words, the trash can patent doesn’t mean Apple’s suddenly gonna sic their lawyers on any OS that has a trash can-like device. But it does mean that some lazy ass programmer won’t be able to rip off the photorealistic trash can directly from OS X and paste it into the GUI-shell of the day.
The U.S. Patent Office has got a lot of major, steaming problems, but this is shooting at the wrong target.
Apple is doing what every company does: They protect their intellectual property.
All the open sources fans here (I am one too, but not a notoric one) should think about, that companies spend a lot of money in research and ingeneering to invent their products.
Copying ist old as mankind. Nothing is more simple.
Every company has the legal right to protect their investment in knowhow, technology, desing or whatever.
If you like it or not, but our world and economic system is money driven – driven by companies that pay their people and produce products people have to pay for.
If we got an “everything is free and open source” only world we would end in a desaster. Remember, I like free thing too, but not exclusively. There are no free gas stations, free retail stores, free housings (etc..etc..) out in this world.
You have to pay for all this stuff.
Think about it!
With your above statements. Companies do indeed spend countless hours, manpower, and money to invent their products. Those products need protecting!
Like my company for example, we are in the process of patenting farting. We have found that by ingesting certain forms of organic matter the digestive system reacts by releasing gas into the atmosphere.
We feel that this is our technology and after spending literally 100’s of millions of dollars to figure this out, it is now time for us to protect it.
This is why I can understand how a company like Apple has the absolute right to patent and protect a vector graphic of a metal trash can, it is so clearly theirs!
Regarding Roberto owning five Macs and running Linux on them… Roberto, you need a conservator to manage your funds. Why would anybody pay premium for five Macintoshes, and then strip out of them what makes them worth the cost?
As for the PC/Mac thing, been there, done that. My computer of choice is a Mac because, well, Roberto, as you noted earlier, it’s better than “its not that bad after all.” I have used PCs and you’re right, they’re not awful.
But why would I buy something that’s just “not awful?”
Well, we don’t know the reason.
Maybe their next iApp is called “iTrash” and the metal trash can is the app-icon 😉
Ralf.
Apple has had design patents for specific iconography and graphics and look-and-feel elements for every iteration of their OSes… And it still doesn’t prevent others from copying them… All these patents are used for is preventing skinners from completely duplicating the UI look. This is not a big deal and is no different from the last 20 years of Apple’s hsitory.
Those assholes patented cron?
Maybe you have to learn how to read?
They all had the Mac OS on them at one time, I bought two of them when Rhapsody came out, two G3s because I was very hyped and I thought then that Mac OS X was going to be a very good OS. I had used the NeXTStep OS, and I loved it, when steve went back to Apple I thought it was going to be basically the same. After using Rhapsody I was in love, I bought a couple of more macs 1 G3 and then the G4, About that time I started to use the Linux OS on my x86 boxes, upgraded from NT 3.5. Anyway when the DR1 of Mac OS X came out, they started to make the transition over to the Aqua user interface, thought kinda flashy but its still UNIX so I used it, started to get mixed feelings about it, but was still happy with it. Then here comes Public Beta, which sucked but I thought okay they just added more eye candy got a few more bugs but thats okay I will use it. Mac OS X 10.0 Public Beta 2 came out and things just started going downhill from there , around 10.1 I said screw it, it cant get any worse then this, I had bought a TiBook basically so I could learn PowerPC Linux and I also got involved in the GNU Darwin project, tried PowerPC Linux YDL, then made the transition over to SuSE Linux 7.3 and never looked back. Found out what Mac was all about, and when I found out Steve was going down the same path he did when he first worked for Apple I bailed on Apple, I now use SuSE Linux 7.3 PowerPC edition on my Macs, SuSE Linux 7.1 Alpha edition on 2 AlphaWorkstation, and SuSE Linux 8.1 professional on my 2 x86 Laptops. Like I said I maintain the G4 with OS X just to stay up with what the competition is doing and if Apple keeps going the route its going, Linux will have no problem killing it off. Oh and Jim I am an old Man been working in this industry for alot of years, obviously I know more about what goes on then you do. Apple brainwashes all their users into thinking the Mac is great. It isnt. Sit down, take a peice of paper, write down all the advantages to a mac all the serious advantages, then write all the advantages of x86 and you will find the advantages of x86 outnumber any possible advantages you find with the Mac. Talking to a Mac user is like getting a root canal, slightly amusing, mostly painful…
As other people pointed out, or at least tried to, these are mostly design patents. Apple wasn’t awarded a patent on the functionality of a trash icon, but rather the look of their specific icon.
We may not like it, but the idea that “look and feel” can in fact be legally protected has been with us for many years. In point of fact, Apple has pretty much led the charge to protect that in the computer industry, with very early suits against Microsoft (for Windows) and Digital Research (for GEM). They won the suit against Digital Research, but not against Microsoft–in part because at that time Windows was so far behind the Mac in functionality it was judged that the claim that Microsoft was trying to duplicate Apple’s look and feel couldn’t be supported.
To whoever made the observation that Apple does in fact behave like a big company, a hearty “The hell you say!” Always has, always will. I’m not the first person to observe that Steve Jobs is Bill Gates with a high charisma score. The primary difference between Apple and Microsoft is that Apple’s corporate culture, for all its warts, loves technology; Microsoft’s, in the final analysis, really doesn’t. Microsoft’s dominance in most markets has come from signing the right contract at the right time, not from having products people love and not from field-leading innovations. (An old joke among admittedly bitter veterans of the word processor wars is that new versions of Microsoft Word come about when Microsoft figures out how to duplicate another major feature that XyWrite III+ had in 1988.)
I think that Americans in general don’t know how rich people here are kicking their asses but good.
They need patents because they spend a lot of money? If any of you actually *work* on any of these “expensive” projects that your company paid *you* $300 (that’s three hundred dollars) for, in exchange for signing away your right to an invention, then had you staying up until 1 A.M. working on the project until your eyes were bleeding, then told you you couldn’t carry over any vacation into next year, then:
go ahead and be apologists for the pigs. It’s ok, then.
Because, now, the same kind of mammoth exploitation is possible for software engineers as well. Isn’t that wonderful?
Roberto,
Nice post… you very clearly articulated your bone-headed decisions. You managed to clearly state your lack of impartiality by refering to OSX as the competition. You also managed to state nothing of substance as to why OSX was going down hill.
btw… my grandfather has been driving cars for over 60 years but that doesn’t mean he’s a good driver.
Per your request, here’s a quick list:
–x86 (MS or Linux as the primary OS)–
cheap
fast
ubiquitus
–Mac (OSX)–
Unix
Native MS office
Native commercial productivity apps (Adobe, Macromedia, Intuit, etc…)
World class multimedia
Strong device/os coupling
OSX apps natively, X11 apps natively, unix console apps natively, Java apps natively (and better then any other platform), OS9 apps (emulated), windows apps( emulated).
You’ll note that x86 will hit some of the Mac benefits while in windows and others while in linux and there are still leftovers that can’t be touched.
Bert,
I asked you to put together a serious list, but instead of puting together a serious one you show the ignorance that plagues the Macintosh community, and they say Mac users are smarter well thats not so in your case you are about as smart as a case of brillo pads. Zealotry is going to be one of the downfalls of the Macintosh, as for your list of reasons, I have a little check mark that I put beside them thats says crap, crap, crap. Native Applications true, and thats one that gets to me you Mac users claim to hate MS, yet you cannot live without MS Office, If MS was to cut Office tommorrow the mac community would roll over and die, Microsoft ignores the Linux users yet we survive with Open Office and or Star Office, Strong device coupling–crap, I have more troubles with Printers and other devices under OS X than in any other version of the Mac OS, At least with Linux we manage to keep support for our old devices, X11 Apps under OS X are blotchy, some widgets render some dont, you still need to compile 90% of your X11 apps where with linux we have RPMs and .DEBs for 95% of X11 apps, Java support under OS X blows I cant even launch the Sun ONE studio Java edition under OS X, cant even get into the Yahoo Java Chat applet with it and cant run but maybe a few java apps that are very small and basically nontechnical at all, useless applets. World Class Multimedia–crap PC sound systems are better than the Macs in everyway why do you think more digital musicians are coming to the PC side, also Apple trying to force them to buy Macs by purchasing some of thes digital media companies that write the software, by the way on another note I know a handful of Digital Musicians who tell me even tho Mac cut support for Windows they will be switching to another program and staying with Windows and the PC, Windows Movie Maker is much better than iMovie because hehe cant get Mac OS X to pick up my camcorder–see crappy device support. So there I butchered your so called list of Mac “advantages”. I am a very impartial computer user in my line of work I have used every OS known to man, Apple hasnt improved anything all they did was hang in, but as stated Linux will kill OS X, and you stupid morons who sit there and scream ” All Hail Mac ” will soon either be A) committing suicide because then you will have to use a PC or B) fall behind the times and become hermits still running technology that will be 20 yrs old, By the Way the BeOS was more of a UNIX then Mac OS X will ever hope to be.
” I am a very impartial computer user in my line of work ”
“and you stupid morons who sit there”
etc. etc.
Chuck,
You hit the nail on the head:
I think that Americans in general don’t know how rich people here are kicking their asses but good.
But I will add to it by saying not only do they not know it, but they dont seem to care either. *AND* when they are educated about it they tend to make excuses for it (“yeah, well right, but the RIAA deserve to make money off the artists for doing basically nothing, I mean they are protecting the artist by forcefully raping them for cash, then raping the consumer too..”).
After making the excuses, they bascially line up, bend over and beg for more of the same.
heh
Roberto,
1> Learn to type in paragraphs.
2> A good troll will always pretend to be serious; don’t let your guard down when making stuff up – try to keep it credible.
3> There is no step 3.
–Mac (OSX)–
Unix
Native MS office
Native commercial productivity apps (Adobe, Macromedia, Intuit, etc…)
World class multimedia
Strong device/os coupling
OSX apps natively, X11 apps natively, unix console apps natively, Java apps natively (and better then any other platform), OS9 apps (emulated), windows apps( emulated).
When you wake up from that strange dream your having, or when you come down off the mind bending drugs your currently cruising on, please re-do the list as most of it is a hallucination.
“Apple has had design patents for specific iconography and graphics and look-and-feel elements for every iteration of their OSes… And it still doesn’t prevent others from copying them… All these patents are used for is preventing skinners from completely duplicating the UI look. This is not a big deal and is no different from the last 20 years of Apple’s hsitory.”
So then if all this is “normal”, what was the point of the article, or putting a link to it on this site? There are serious, exploitation-related issues involved with software patents, and those issues need to be addressed and discussed.
What about the “patent” for a front end to Cron, or whatnot?
I stand by my point. Whenter Apple’s behavior indicates corporate arrogance or not, American corporations (and corporations around the world, for that matter,) really need to be brought back under control of the people who charter tham, lest we *humans* lose to these “collective individuals” all of our rights.
People invent things, not corporations, no matter how much money the corporations claim to spend. And patents should never be issued like tap water, to the first bag-man that pays the bill for the junket.
A bit presumptuous… don’t you think. Did I say one negative thing against MS, Linux, etc….
We’re do you get zeolotry from… outside of your own linux zeolotry (you are the only one using words like “hate” to describe your position). The list provided was the value proposition that brought me to the mac.
Funny thing is, I don’t regret my decision… but then again I didn’t make my purchase decisions based upon hype 🙂
BTW, your arguments are dubious at best. In response to some of them:
1) I Haven’t had a device issue yet (admitadly probably due to luck, but my printers, camcorder, digital camera, pda, fw hd, and media reader have all worked without a hitch)
2) If Apple’s Java implementation is so bad, why did Sun bring in Apple to leverage Apple’s optimizations?
3) MS Office is a business reality and therefore a requirement. Formatting issues are not acceptable.
4) RPM – do you really want to go there? Maybe you should try fink, they have nice binary packages for ya. Additionally, they leverage apt-get for depend. management.
5) Haven’t experienced X11 widget issues…. but then again, Apple’s X11 is in beta so there may be some, but not with any code apps I have run.
6) Core audio probably does have more work to be done, but I was refering to the iLife stuff and the pro-level stuff.
7) Because Movie maker recognizes a particular camcorder that iMovie doesn’t makes it a better program???? ….get real.
I wish I could be the first person to tell you this, but unfortunately I’d probably have better odds winning lotto every day for the rest of my life, You sir are an idiot.
” We’re do you get zeolotry from… outside of your own linux zeolotry (you are the only one using words like “hate” to describe your position). The list provided was the value proposition that brought me to the mac. ”
You are saying you arent a zealot? you fight feverishly for Apple, no matter how many downfalls I point out to you, you always come back for more and I set it straight and still you are trying to say the Mac is the best. Who are you trying to convince that Macs are better my friend, me or yourself? Macs have no place in this world, everything they used to be good at, the PC now does even better.
” Funny thing is, I don’t regret my decision… but then again I didn’t make my purchase decisions based upon hype 🙂 ”
I dont believe that, 90% of switchers go because of hype
” 1) I Haven’t had a device issue yet (admitadly probably due to luck, but my printers, camcorder, digital camera, pda, fw hd, and media reader have all worked without a hitch) ”
Thats right it is due to luck, also you probably went with what devices Apple told you to buy, I have had the same luck with Linux, everything works.
” 2) If Apple’s Java implementation is so bad, why did Sun bring in Apple to leverage Apple’s optimizations? ”
Get the story straight son, Sun didnt bring Apple in to do anything, Apple took what the NeXT guys did with Java and brought it with them, Sun has tried to assist Apple with their Java implementations, but my scoop from a Sun guy is that Apple is very unresponsive to assistance and that is how come the rest of the world had Java 1.4 a whole year and a half before Apple had Java 1.4, The thing with media 90% of its crap, 9% is trying to boost up the companies reputation and 1% truth like Apples switcher adds. Do you remember when C/Net reported that Sun was creating a version of Star Office for the Mac and Sun came in and told them to get a life, that they werent doing anything for the Mac or Apple?
” 3) MS Office is a business reality and therefore a requirement. Formatting issues are not acceptable. ”
Thats funny I have always worked with Star Office and I have no problem switching documents with any Mac or Windows user.
” 4) RPM – do you really want to go there? Maybe you should try fink, they have nice binary packages for ya. Additionally, they leverage apt-get for depend. management.”
Yeah I really want to go there the majority of Linux distros use RPM with no problems whatsoever, back in the olden days we had dependency issues and what such, but if you have a current system now and you install the legacy libs like you are supposed to you wont have those problems since with most distros they are installed by default. The only other package managers I like is apt-get and the Gentoo Portage system, which I have used to leverage code for my Alphas, update GNOME and XFree86 and other stuff.
” 5) Haven’t experienced X11 widget issues…. but then again, Apple’s X11 is in beta so there may be some, but not with any code apps I have run. ”
Keep using it like every other Mac OS X app the problems will surface eventually, Maybe you dont use X11 as much as I do.
” 6) Core audio probably does have more work to be done, but I was refering to the iLife stuff and the pro-level stuff. ”
Core Audio needs alot more work to it, but then again Apple could probably get more help but since they like to figure these things out on their own and wait 2 years fall behind even more then so be it
” 7) Because Movie maker recognizes a particular camcorder that iMovie doesn’t makes it a better program???? ….get real. ”
At least the support is still there, the Camcorder worked fine under 10.1 but under 10.2 Apple cut the drivers out to make more room for their bloat.
” I wish I could be the first person to tell you this, but unfortunately I’d probably have better odds winning lotto every day for the rest of my life, You sir are an idiot.”
You dont agree with my views and I am an idiot? that Makes you a hypocrite and a jack-ss, replace that slash with an ” A” and maybe you can figure out what I just spelled. Oh by the way I have never lost an argument to a Mac head. I just start ignoring them.
I have a little trouble with your attitude.
I must be doing something wrong, running my studio on 3 macs.
With Very Little Trouble.
I also like linux, windows, beos.
Use whatever you would like its all good, I just state my opinions, something Mac users aggressively disagree with.
Its all good, I love the BeOS, like I stated it surpasses Mac OS X technology wise, outstanding SMP functionality.
Ahhh… another one after my heart…
Oh by the way I have never lost an argument to a Mac head. I just start ignoring them.
But they never shut up!!! Constantly spewing the Steve speak. idiots. The best mac users are the ones who keep their traps shut and just use and enjoy.
Who are you trying to convince that Macs are better my friend, me or yourself?
Ever notice how they all completely ignore any talk of linux, contstantly refer to the “horrible” world of PC’s as if PC == windows? But when you tell the about advancements in the world of Linux (which apple promptly adapts broken printing? CUPS!! Soundcore fucked? 10 bucks on ALSA) they wince and start spewing the “price/performance ratio” speech.
I recently upgraded a file server/small webserver NAT/firewall etc box on my home DSL front end. I was retiring a p200 I had been using since 96 or 97 for those tasks. I was definately getting bogged down with large IMAP reads, etc… So I threw together one of the AMD boxes that are all the rage these days. Picking and choosing well, I upgraded to a 1.4ghz modern processor with a kick ass gentoo build, a zalman chip cooler (so it is silent!) 256mb ram and 80gigs of HD space for around $350. Granted its a cheap box. It doesnt have a head, barely needs a keyboard, and has some frankenstien parts in it. I tell this to my Mac buddy, and you just see this quick *wince* as the truth was being destroyed in his brainwashed grey goo by the “reality distotion feild”, and he lights into the Mhz myth speech.
Its so tiring. I would never deploy a box like that in a real production enviornoment, but no UNIX administrator worth their salt would deploy an XServe that was wasting CPU ccycles drawing PDF’s all the day long.
Cheers mate!
“What about the “patent” for a front end to Cron, or whatnot?”
Does Cron use AppleEvents? Enough said.
Just because a patent sounds similar to another product doesn’t mean the patent holder is attempting to hold the other product ransom. They may actually just be protecting their own product.
“but no UNIX administrator worth their salt would deploy an XServe that was wasting CPU ccycles drawing PDF’s all the day long.”
Don’t know what you are talking about. You don’t have to run the GUI–the Xserve doesn’t waste cycles unless the admin is a silly advocate trying to impose his world view onto Apple and claiming they do everything backwards. If you run a system in a completely silly backwards fashion, yes, it’s probably not optimal. But you can also run it right and get what you want out of it, silly.
toothfeller and roberto.
Don’t know what you are talking about. You don’t have to run the GUI–the Xserve doesn’t waste cycles unless the admin is a silly advocate trying to impose his world view onto Apple and claiming they do everything backwards. If you run a system in a completely silly backwards fashion, yes, it’s probably not optimal. But you can also run it right and get what you want out of it, silly.
Well thats right silly, (stop calling me silly… silly) But lemme ask you this: In that case, whats the point? Why not just run the real FreeBSD or Darwin, or OpenBSD or for that matter Linux?
Apples mish mash of technologies floating on top of a Mach Kerknel even sans GUI are for sure not an optimized system, it is just too damn new. Maybe in some years it will advance to the point where it is usuable for those tasks, but right now, as we speak, its not even optimized for dekstop usage, let alone business serving needs.
Even tho Apple claims to be “Open For business” with a picture of the XServe on their website, they have no history, they dont really have a strategy to go in to that realm, and aside from the faithful, no one is really adopting OSX/XServe in serious environments. So while I am sure somehone here can tell me their office is running on one and “it just works” , I wanna see the real real proof that this thing performs, and is being adopted, and WHY it is. I dont want market speech coming from the horses mouth, I want real industry insight.
Meanwhile, I will watch free and open solutions that run on standard hardware be more and more accepted and adopted throughout the spectrum of areas Apple is trying to target.
Also, some say the reason why one would adopt XServe and OS X is cos of the ease of use tools at your disposal, so any nincompoop can administer the server. While I think that idea is almost as dangerous as George Bushes foriegn policy, I also believe it requires one to be using a gooey, isnt that right?
Stop being an apologist!
Yes, you use the GUI to administer the servers from a workstation. Wow! Mind blowing.
Despite what you suggest–the XServe is being used outside of Apple’s traditional markets, Apple does have a strategy, it is being well received, it does perform quite well even when doing a price/performance comparison…
So you are simply silly.
” Yes, you use the GUI to administer the servers from a workstation. Wow! Mind blowing.
Despite what you suggest–the XServe is being used outside of Apple’s traditional markets, Apple does have a strategy, it is being well received, it does perform quite well even when doing a price/performance comparison…
So you are simply silly. ”
I havent seen one Data Center that uses the Xserve, save 1, Digital Forest. No self respecting data center would use the XServe. Solaris, Linux, Windows 2000 Advanced Server, HP-UX are the big dogs, sure you may hear of 1 or 2 companies that have considered switching, not many have though. Proprietary UNIX will be replaced soon, dont worry, whatever strides OS X makes into the enterprise will be short lived. Linux will see to that
You have seen it in datacenters (which even surprises me), you know of companies considering switching, and you can’t even account for the small to mid size business which is much more attracted to this, nevermind the BioTech firms using banks of these for Blast, or the music studios who need to serve files and midi, or the art/graphics/video studios… but they have no market? uhh, huh. Whatever. Apple doesn’t care about owning the market fool. The question was: is there any interest whatsoever? Yu have demonstrated plenty of interest yourself. Thanks.
Ah, this Roberto guy, what a great comic. He blasts Apple’s hype when comparing Macs to PCs, but then cites as a proof the hype distilled by 3 PeeCee makers who favorably compare their own hardware with Macs.
Thanks for the laugh Roberto! You definitely deserve a PC.
On linux and the mac – linux will overtake windows long before it overtakes the mac. It can’t overtake the mac until it’s better for apple current users, which will be a long time from now.
But windows – linux is getting closer every day. After all, windows is total crap, so how hard will it be to best that? The only thing windows has is the apps. But for many windows uses (govt, schools, corps), linux is 95 % there. And windows users on the consumer end (many) are cheap, not after the best. They just want a “family” computer. something “Just good enough.” So linux doesn’t even need to be better. In other words, the same reason windows beat mac (as far as market domination), is the same reason windows is vulnerable to linux. Mac users however, are a different type of customer.
Also, I don’t think the mac will ever be met by linux until somebody makes hardware and tailors the distro to the hardware, you know, makes an out of the box integrated package. Oh, wait a minute, apple is already doing this. Taking an open source OS, other open source stuff (Konqueror) and packaging it with hardware. So people will have to compete on apple’s turf, play apple’s game to eliminate apple. Sure, that will happen over time, but newcomers will have to do a lot of learning what apple already knows how to do.
OK, so the sequence of events is, Linux overtakes windows or takes a huge chunk out of it, BEFORE it overtakes the mac. well before. oh, and by the way, once linux get big share, all the software that will then be available for it (includ commercial stuff) can easily be recompiled for the mac. Sounds good for increased business for Apple, with a huge impediment (lack of software) totally goner, see-ya-later.
So yes, linux can overtake the mac, but a very long time from now and the mac will have quite a nice time while linux is causing bill gates to wet his pants, ha ha.
Roberto is one of those guys who’s been predicting the death of Apple since 1984, then runs MacOSX on the slowest G4 and decides that this is how MacOSX actually is. Also what about that part about buying 3 G3s? Why would you buy three of the same computer?
Then their is that part of Linux working with everything he’s thrown at it, I guess from here on out Linux is plug and play but he can’t get his MacOSX box to print or see any devices.
Then XServe has been so poorly received that Apple introduces the XRaid because they felt like it and nobody asked for that either.
Roberto is good for laughs and not much else.
The biggest advantage to linux is the low cost (of course there are others, but that is the biggest). Low cost as in free. Or at least the GPL parts are free. So Linux can underprice apple right? no, because apple is free to take that GPL’d stuff too and build it in for free and sell it for free. Apple is charging for the value-added, mainly the out of box package and ease of use and consistent interface. As more and more moves into the public domain with open source, apple can incorporate that for free. And move onto the next thing (innovation) for which they will charge.
The correct spelling of my name is Dohnert you freakin mac moron, As for the Mac, Linux on the desktop has almost surpassed the marketshare of Mac, do your research before you make a stupid comment. No I havent been predicting the death of Mac since 1984 when Apple announced Rhapsody I was actually rootin for Apple, but Steve got back, his head swelled back up and his loyal followers started their Mantra again. IDC predicts a larger adoption of Linux on the desktop and on the server then for any other OS in 2003. As for integrating hardware and software, you see where that has gotten Sun and SGI dont you ? I happen to be a strong believer in Sun Micro and I support them more than I do Apple. But that doesnt mean Sun made alot of bad choices and I can sum up Apples biggest mistake in one word–PowerPC. Linux will be the next big thing, surpassing MS and yes even Mac, come back in 2004 and I will laugh like hell, telling you I told you so and watching the reports as Apple reports that sales and profits have gone down yet again.
” The biggest advantage to linux is the low cost (of course there are others, but that is the biggest). Low cost as in free. Or at least the GPL parts are free. So Linux can underprice apple right? no, because apple is free to take that GPL’d stuff too and build it in for free and sell it for free. Apple is charging for the value-added, mainly the out of box package and ease of use and consistent interface. As more and more moves into the public domain with open source, apple can incorporate that for free. And move onto the next thing (innovation) for which they will charge. ”
BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH
Who cares what Apple does, I already know Apple will not go quietly in the night, But it will go. I did predict Apples demise since the year 2000 and ask anyone that knows me, its going just like I said it would, 2005 – 2007 somewhere in that timeline there will be no Apple Computer
The only thing I laugh at are you, the Mac user base man I cannot believe what a bunch of morons it attracts. You guys eat up everyword Steve Jobs puts out. LOLOLOL, It is truly amazing. Tell you what guys Steve Just called me and said he has some Ocean front property in Oklahoma that he wants to sell, Any takers ?
You guys better get used to the PC you will be buying them soon enough…
As for Apple using GPL software, I see Apple more or less getting sued for violating the GPL before it actually profits from it, You know RMS is watching em and if catches Apple not obeying by the rules of the GPL, Apple is very screwed. Apple and their engineers are not believers in the GPL and it wont surprise me when the Headlines : GNU Foundation Sues Apple Computer for Violating License terms, comes rolling on by.
Free Software can be good but if you muck up it will bite you right in the behind
Yep and I laugh every time I go to the bank to cash my paychecks.
Apple needs to use x86 architecture and continue to make stylish computers themselves while also allowing the masses of pc users out there the opportunity to use there os on any PC they might own. People with continue to buy Apple’s hardware for asthetics alone.
I’d also patent everything under the sun if i were apple. Why because if they don’t, then the run the risk of owing money to MS, who is also patenting everything they can. On top of that everyone (the pc houses and MS) copy apple constantly. That would piss me off. The PC industry (and ms) let apple take the risk on innovation and they just copy with a cheap knock off. I don’t have a lot of respect for that. Perhaps apple will finally be able to sue MS to oblivion for redmond’s copycapy syndrome.
Thats the smartest thing I have ever heard a Mac user say in my entire life. Ryan, I just cant believe they got a patent on a trash icon, does that mean future versions of any OS will not be able to have a trash Icon ?
When you consider that in the past Apple Legal has been a wimp and failure to patent something insignificant like a trashcan leads a competitor to copying it, then Apple should exercise their IP to its maximum potential.
There is nothing morally wrong with it and all the better if the USPTO grants it. MS does it, why can’t Apple?
You have to understand that Apple has to protect their IP rights to its maximum and legalese can be VERY specific.
Look at it this way, if Apple patented nothing in MacOSX then we can trust everyone NOT to copy it’s look or feel, right? After all, no one is interested in copying Apple and no elements in today’s modern operating systems has anything in common with the first shipping Macintosh Finder from the 1980s, right?
I mean, this is like some kinda forum. I dunno how many people commented and explained about the effin’ design patent and how it only covers the very specific instance of the trash can in OS X, yet some people are so busy hurling insults that we get a lammo question like “does that mean future versions of any OS will not be able to have a trash icon” on post #59. Freakin’ annoying!!! And how did a post on Apple patents get hijacked into yet another pathetic pissing match about when Apple is going to buy the farm? You know what, if you guys are so sure, put down $1000 each until 2007 and see if Apple is still around. I doubt anyone is really willing to walk the walk instead of talking the annoying hell out of everyone.
I love how the other story about the former Apple/Be/Palm staffer’s return to Apple, the new Apple Music Service, and USB 2.0 turned into an argument about whether or not a DSP is a CPU. Who gives a sh!t? The BeBox is ancient anyway, and BeOS failed on three other platforms.
Hey Tech dude, Id take that bet we can even get Eugenia to hold the pot. Im willing to put money on it, any takers ?
“Does Cron use AppleEvents? Enough said.
Just because a patent sounds similar to another product doesn’t mean the patent holder [etc]
I stand corrected. Didn’t know there was such a thing as an “apple event.”
Except in Wisconsin, or so?
GOOD GOD!!!
Did someone patent “apple events”, by the way?
I think people ought to read *Blood Music*, the book by Greg Bear. Might put this whole load of crap into some perspective.
What’s your time frame? Do you want to do the seven year time frame? The company that is Apple will not exist in 2010… I’ll happily make that bet, but there’s no f’in way I’m giving anything to Eugenia.
Chichk, I have no clue what your blathering about. If you don’t know about AppleEvents, check it out, don’t act ignorant and retarded.
When Linux offers everything the mac does then the mac goes away – and I mean everything, the out of box experience, the consistent interface for apps, the integrated online service, the lower number of glitches due to hardware/software integrattion, the whole shebang. Do I think this will happen? Yes, but when? How can one say it will be anytime soon? 2005 no way. 2010 maybe.
Like I said, I hope Linux does take over the mac in share real soon, the sooner the better. The sooner Linux has 20 percent of the desktop market, the better things get for apple (because all that software will be able to be converted to the mac with little to no effort).
You make the assumption I will be crying if Apple dies. You are wrong, donut head. I don’t care, because if Linux offers everything the mac does (which is the only way linux eliminates apple), then I would prefer linux. Why would I not prefer open hardware? Of course I would. But right now the best computing experience by far is the mac and that requires closed hardware. I’ll take linux as better than the mac anyday. It’s just off a long time.
So do we have a bet or not. I’ll accept 2010. Come on. $1000 by 2010.
when linux might take over the mac. it’s a maybe, it’s way far away. I don’t care when. It’s so far off, but this is a guess. wierd things can happen.
what’s more interesting to me is that as linux gets closer, and thereby overtakes windows, things only get better for the mac. Who wants to bet I’m wrong about that.
Actually forget the bet, who wants to explain why I’m wrong. So far I’ve made this point in several discussions and nobody is even debating me.
I won’t debate you because I entirely agree.
On another note, the whole thesis that : “When Linux offers everything the mac does then the mac goes away” is flawed–it suggests its just a question of quantity not quality. Even if Linux had very similar things to the Mac, and ALL of them, Linux would still not be as focused, as simplified, as controlled, etc… The Mac is unique–Linux is a grab bag.
Appleforever,
For many of us Linux does offer a better out of box experience than the Mac, Red Hat does offer the consistent interface with Apps with Bluecurve, I havent had any problems with software and hardware glitches myself, some may I dont. I didnt say you would be crying if Apple goes under mac moron, I just said that I would hate to see that day, many people will not be happy, When I was at a PTA meeting with my kids there was this one guy, a die hard mac fan who said that if the school didnt teach his kids to work on the Macintosh that he would withdraw them from school and put them somewhere else, those are the people that are going to be upset, the ones who put the Apple stickers on their cars will be upset. For me the best experience is Linux, I like the total package, its fun, its interesting. I like open hardware because if Dell pisses me off I can go to Gateway and buy a new computer and my OS and Apps come with me, even with MS Windows the apps come with me, If you were to switch from Mac to Windows you would be spending twice what the computer was worth in Apps and in Software, Whereas in the PC world I can upgrade my comps, switch my comps with no worries, the PC offers a better package, better maintenance and value than the Mac. If you get pissed at Apple you have to go sit in a corner and pout because then you will have no choice
It was you who asked for takers… Do we have a bet?
I mean, who gives a crap?? Windows, Linux, Apple… it’s all crap anyway. I’d even say BeOS is crap too, considering the fact that it never got finished and that the direction it was headed in might still have been unfriendly to regular humans. Maybe not. Maybe it would have been the ideal. But it never got there so we’ll never know.
Anyway… my point is, computers are annoying enough. Don’t make it worse by hitting each other over the head with the same dumb-ass trolling every time there’s a story posted.
Yeah we got a bet, hope you dont cry when you lose. I said 2007 Apple will be gone. not 2010.
WTF do all the Apple threads end up being “Apple sucks and they are going down”, pathetic. There are a few people that actually post a decent and intelligent comment on the subject then half of the thread is dominated by trolls who’ve used Macs for 30 minutes and are Mac experts or lie about using Macs or use MacOSX on old/slow hardware and comment that MacOSX is slow. STUPID!
LOL, yeah right. I suggest you look up the word, all Mac OS X is, is NeXTStep with a fisher price interface, nothing unique about Mac OS X all it did was jump on the UNIX train to hang in for a few more years, as for a point that AppleForever made about Hardware and Software integration, Sun manufactures servers and Workstations that are 150 times better than Apple will ever hope to produce, yet for their x86 based Servers they are looking at SuSE or Red Hat to provide the OS while they produce the hardware, shows how far software and hardware integration gets. Enjoy your Macs now, in four years they are gone. As for Jace Im not trolling I stated truth and fact as well as some opinion, yet when you say something against Mac, its like Mac users unite. Guess they cant handle the truth. Apple has hung in for as long as they have with the shock effect, they dress up a dead OS and people go WOW, until they find out what it truly is then you see what we see, failing profits, stores that havent seen a profit since the day they were opened and a Massive migration to Linux.
Whats more stupid, someone who actually doesnt like the Mac and gives FACTS as to why they hate Macs and Why Apple will be gone, or the Mac Zealots who actually cant admit that OS X is not perfect and give false claims that the Mac is faster when it has been proven that they are slower, more expensive and generally a peice of crap. I have given you fact and honesty when every post from a Mac user just touts Steve Jobs rhetoric word for word, or is it more stupid that people who come online that bash Microsoft daily, when they rely on a product that Microsft produces so much that the usability of a Mac would go down 98% if MS was to cut production, Seems like I remember when Microsoft threatened to cut Mac support that they were writing editorials talking about how much MS sucked and turning around whining and dining Bill Gates, getting down on hands and knees begging Bill not to cut Mac support and keep producing office, and I wonder how many of you guys got online and posted Microsoft sucks using Microsoft Internet Explorer, very two faced and hypocritical. I ask again, who is more stupid ? but of course the mac users will come along when the P5 comes out running at 6ghz claiming that the G4 1 ghz runs circles around it. I never claimed to be an expert at the Mac.
As for lies, hehehehe Mac user: Mac OS X is the best OS in the world, Macs are faster, macs have lower TCO, Macs are faster and it goes on and on, lets take score:
Lies told
Roberto 0
Mac Community Billions and Billions of lies told with no end in sight
apple will be around for many years to come. end of story. there will always be people who like the look and feel of the os and computer box itself. yes, some mac users attack pc users and immediately think of windows (or windoze depending on how die-hard they are or how seriously they want to be taken in print) because the company still has the large share of the desktop. . .and the little bit i have seen of gnome (still working on get kde to work on my mac, but i also haven’t played with much yet) it is close to a rip off of windows (granted, that is just first impression use, still need more experience on it to say for sure one way or the other) so even if a pc user is on linux, the desktop is going to look like windows (the other de out there have screenshots? or only kde and gnome available?)
my understanding there are many linux people (not all) that are not all that keen on windows as well, but their de looks like it? or is there more than just appearance involved, and there is actual functional difference in how things work?
as far as the apple/microsoft debate goes, they need each other and the reasons are various and to each his own opinion and desire to state the reason that may be.
what makes you think s/he is a mac user? most of us tend to think that x86 is a bad thing. . . for a variety of reasons.
and as far as viable reasons to use the mac os, that is personal-just as your desire to use pc’s and linux is. and there is nothing anybody can do to convince or change anything by anyone. when people find something they think is good and beneficial they will try and tell people about it (in other words, impartiality doesn’t exist) because it is benificial they believe. for some, there is the fact that apple IS niche and has a community/culture of it’s own and for others it is the ease of use and general feel of the os itself. i have used windows and do not like how it works, therefore at least one of the de’s doesn’t work for me due to it’s strong windows-esque feel and operation(s) (see previous post) and i am working on becoming fully cli-literate, however even if i become so my wife prefers a gui (which is not a problem with os x, i can have my log in and she can have hers). so star office works with ms office docs seamlessly? i haven’t used it yet, but maybe will give it a shot. or perhaps openoffice.org’s suite does? therefore can get away from ms even more, for those who really do not want ms on their box. smile
i could come up with any number of reasons to use a mac, and you can come up just as many to use a pc/linux box (perhaps more) however it still is personal opinion and use. but since both of us are not impartial, it won’t matter. . .or i am just seriously misreading your posts with strong anti-apple and pro-ms/linux spins on it all. smile have a great night and look forward to responses thanks!
Dohnert, you are kidding right? Sure for some people linux is better. For some windows is better. I have never said mac is better for everyone. that would be silly. what I have said is that the best designed, easiest to use, most functional, most quality computing experience is on a mac. This is obvious. Windows is just bad. All it has is the cheap hardware and apps. THAT’S FU**ING IT. otherwise it blows so much chunks you have to stand out of the way in order not to smell like puke. linux is nice in many, many ways and i hope the best for it. I believe in it. but right now, it is missing so so many things compared to the mac that talking about it as a replacement for the mac — for most already committed mac users – is a joke.
Dohnert, one more thing. You keep saying macheads think the mac is perfect. Well, I am a machead and here it is “the mac is not perfect” got it?
here’s the difference though, apple is actually trying to make it perfect. steve jobs may be a bastard, he may be a liar (sometimes) or a distorter. but he’s clearly a perfectionist. he actually thinks that if you make a better computer, apple will survive and prosper. maybe he’s wrong. But it is what he thinks, or why would he waste his time there? It’s not like he doesn’t have enough money, or other things to do (pixar).
MS on the other hand. Their driving spirit is not quality. It’s not “the best”. It’s winning. And if winning means not going for the best, then the best is quickly tossed aside in a new york second. much of what MS does is clearly not the best, but it’s “their stuff”. It’s made to be (as much as they can get away with) incompatible with the other guy’s stuff – because that’s one tool to WIN.
Different philosophies. Probably MS’s is smarter as far as a business stratgey. you do end up with suckier products though.
sorry to be confused, but why is it that people have issues with steve jobs? why is he such a bad guy?
MS makes a good product, you just have to look at what they do and what Apple has to do, Microsoft has to provide support for hundreds of thousands of Applications and hardware devices, for that kind of support MS does a fine job, like I stated its not a perfect world, there will never be a perfect OS, Microsoft has at least tried to improve their product, it doesnt take Apples position where it is good enough, if you really think about it, you cannot compare Apple with Microsoft, because Apple will never, and I repeat never, let me spell it out for you N-E-V-E-R be in the same position Microsoft is in, it might be more logical to compare Apple to SGI who happens to share Apples marketing strategy, sell to high profile limited markets. Well thats my two cents and my observations. Apple will never conquer the desktop because it limits itself to much. And yes for many people and corporations Linux is 100 times better. On the server and on the desktop…
I think MS could do a lot better. Bottom line is they don’t need to (or at least they haven’t needed to) make it better. This is very simple. No competition = no significant improvement, prices too high.
Plus, I don’t want “good” I want “best”
Microsoft is the best company out there, as far a creative people go Linus Torvalds takes the #2 slot. What I find really funny though is that Apple had to go outside and buy a company in order to produce a ” modern operating system ” guess their inhouse engineers that they had before the purchase couldnt handle it huh?
Apple is the company that releases products that are just “good” enough. Apple takes no real pride in their offerings the only reason why they can get away with it. Notice whenever a major app provider wants to port an application they have to have the Major problems fixed first, thats why it took Office, Photoshop and Quark so long to port their Apps, Microsoft fixed almost a hundred bugs, and they had to do that in order to get Office to run properly on OS X, Quartz extreme wasnt an Apple invention it was an Adobe invention, yet Apple gladly takes credit for it. Adobe and these other app companies always submit ideas and bugfixes, Adobe is helping with Longhorn, why do you think Microsofts new OS is so graphic intense? its not because of Apple, because they dont care about Apple they know Apple will never sell that many systems because of the price, its because they are listening to the application providers and making the changes that they suggest, Linux developers are the same way, they refine and change their code to make it better. Apple is the only company that only make changes that are required they never constantly develop and try to make it better. Thats one of the reasons Java 1.4 took its sweet old time making it to the Mac platform because Apple thought that Java 1.3 was good enough, it wasnt until application providers started writing java 1.4 applets and Apple realized it was in trouble and had to meet the specs. Apple is not an innovator like what all the Mac users say, it just hangs around and oes new things whenthey are required to. Did you know that Apple even tho it claims it is a Open Source supporter, that of all the outside contributions that were submitted with Mac OS X 10.0 they only used 2% of outside contributions?