Regarding the latest on Apple’s side: The Guardian has an article, “a look inside Apple’s new push for speed” Sanluisobispo says, “G5 breaks Apple’s speed limit” Sunspot says. Elsewhere, Apple has quietly posted the winners of the Eighth Annual Apple Design Awards, which “honored developers for the creation of outstanding Macintosh-compatible software products.” Also, this document is a high-level summary of the salient features to keep in mind while (re)targetting your programs to run on the G5.
Apple Hits the Fast Track; More Apple News
About The Author
Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
Follow me on Twitter @EugeniaLoli
to all the critics that will be posting about anything from the speed to the interface…….
your wrong…..if you don’t like apple, don’t buy it.
Was it just me that was thrown off by the word “Macintosh-compatible”? It harkens back to the old IBM compatible era.
I was thinking, now that Apple’s processor is developed by IBM, it might be more appropriate to call computers which are most often called PCs, “IBM incompatibles”
“Is that a Mac you’re using or an IBM Incompatible?”
to all the critics that will be posting about anything from the speed to the interface…….
your wrong…..if you don’t like apple, don’t buy it.
Lol…so we’re automatically wrong for criticizing Apple? LOL, so it’s wrong for us to explain why we don’t buy Apple products? sorry, that is rich
“Lol…so we’re automatically wrong for criticizing Apple?”
Why would you say that? nothin he said implied that.
“So it’s wrong for us to explain why we don’t buy Apple products?”
No, it’s wrong to tell the world incorrect/false reasons why you wouldn’t use Apple products.
Why would you say that? nothin he said implied that.
Probably the following line from Debman’s post:
>> your wrong…..if you don’t like apple, don’t buy it.
“Probably the following line from Debman’s post:
>> your wrong…..if you don’t like apple, don’t buy it.”
No, somebody’s not automatically wrong for criticizing Apple?
Yes they are wrong for saying the benchmarks were false.
Yes they are wrong for saying the benchmarks were false.
All benchmarks are false, including Apple’s.
I am sick of every article forum having to do with Apple or G5, people feel the need to bring up the old “PC vs. Mac” competitions.
Here’s a new topic that was in the article as well:
Eighth Annual Apple Design Awards
I actually was impressed with the idea behind “Salling Clicker 1.5”. Never thought of using a bluetooth enabled phone in this manner. The proximity feature as well was very interesting. I wonder if they plan on making a version compatible with Pal Tungsten T’s?
It’s always nice to have someone to defend and make Apple propaganda. Apples, bluebaries, pears, and… tata…. peanuts….
Buy one, enjoy it, and use it, noone cares. Noone either cares about the benchmarks, and atleast I don’t trust benchmarks, regardles if they come from Apple or any other company.
Remember when the AMD K6 , K6-2 and K6-III came out? AMD had those cool benchmarks showing that the K6 is more powerfull than the PII and PIII, but in real world apps it wasn’t. I remember testing and Apple dual G4 at 1.42 Ghz, 2MB cache with 512 DDR, NVidia Geforce4 TI 4200 and all the nice stuff. I’ve tested UT 2k3 on it, and at 1024×768 at 32 bit colors it just wasn’t playable, while on my AMD Athlon XP 2200+ with an ATI Radeon 9000 and 512 DDR ram I can play it flawless. Don’t try to distort reality. I use my PC for work, and Linux, programming&learning. I promise that when I get my hands on a G5 the performance is convincing I’ll buy one, but until then, apples, bluebaries, pears and peanuts, it will be always the fruit-computer for me.
Just my 2 cents.
These speed flamewars are soo boring… It will take us half a year to see two things:
– IBM is reliably improving its processors
– software is running fast, taking advantage of optimizations
Until then I’ve gotta shrug. I don’t need to rain on some Apple zealot’s parade, unless they start going nuts again with their insultingly childish flamewars. I mean, one sheep in an earlier thread accused others of being JEALOUS, as if using PCs made it impossible for me to buy a Mac too. Moron, it’s so tempting to troll just to have the entertainment of riling Mac zealots up.
“All benchmarks are false, including Apple’s.”
yes, most benchmarks aren’t true indicators of performance, but Apple’s benchmarks weren’t false.
Good point, LoL:)
Apple zealots, let the flaming BEGIN!:)
LOL…amen to that. It’s so easy…LOL
Steve Jobs is gay…i GUARANTEE that just pissed off some Mac zealots, maybe even made a couple cry.
Macs are computers, not a religion, stop the senseless holy wars.
BTW: I don’t really think Jobs is gay, you can stop crying now (you know who you are)
my message ignoring the flamewars apparently went unheard…
“it’s so tempting to troll just to have the entertainment of riling Mac zealots up.”
Heh, i find the opposite is true. it was Amazine how many PC weenies started freaking out because Apple had faster computers. The mere presence of Mac users giving these same individuals a taste of the same medicine which was fed to them over the last year and a half caused more figiting and sleepless nights on the PC user side of the fense than i care to imagine.
I agree though. Now that the speed race is over… its time to move on.
yes, most benchmarks aren’t true indicators of performance, but Apple’s benchmarks weren’t false.
There is no true/false here…
Benchmarks are not a boolean type, most are ints or floats
Benchmarks don’t mean owl shit, and I’m sick of all the ignorant zealotry…
Apple’s benchmarks are no better or more respectable than anybody else’s
I’ll judge a computer’s speed when I sit down to one, it’s all relative anyway
“Apple’s benchmarks are no better or more respectable than anybody else’s
I’ll judge a computer’s speed when I sit down to one, it’s all relative anyway”
its funny how we’re seeing more and more comments like these now that the Mac is the speed champion. Go back two years ago, and everybody was content to tout these same benchmarks which are now suddenly regarded as meaningless.
Funny– I have the ATI RADEON 9000 on my dual 1GHz G4 and UT2k3 plays flawlessly. I really love fragging PC users with my Mac, they all seem especially miffed because I’m a Mac user.
its funny how we’re seeing more and more comments like these now that the Mac is the speed champion. Go back two years ago, and everybody was content to tout these same benchmarks which are now suddenly regarded as meaningless.
I never believed the benchmarks back then either. Speed is relative, I can make a 2GHz machine perform like a 486 if I want to load my computer up with bloated eye-candy-filled crap.
I can also run DOS on a pentium III and it’ll fly. It’s all relative.
Benchmarks lie and anyone who takes them with more than a grain of salt is an utter fool.
Macs may be faster now, but how many people have actually set one up beside the latest P-IV? I’ll readily admit they’re faster when something more than a lame benchmark tells me so.
“I’ll readily admit they’re faster when something more than a lame benchmark tells me so.”
Would you mind giving me your phone number so i can call you periodically and ask if you’re ready to admit?
Its so easy to troll on a bulletin board. its another thing to be accountable for it.
This site really needs something like slashcode. No threads, but more importantly no decent moderation/scores. Pretty much all of the above are either flamebait or trolls.
Would you mind giving me your phone number so i can call you periodically and ask if you’re ready to admit?
Its so easy to troll on a bulletin board. its another thing to be accountable for it.
Says someone who posts as anonymous.
Ahhh LOL gotta love irony. LOL
how’s this, gimme your e-mail address and i’ll give you my e-mail address, fair enough Mr. Anonymous?
My name is Harry Rider.
My e-mail address is [email protected]
oops… change that to [email protected]
Don’t know why I was thiking AOL)
Cool, now we know who you are:)
Just joking, keep up the nice posts:)
Well, Ihad a bad impression about that machine. To be honest, besides the CPU and some minor things Macs and PCs have preety much in common. I always liked Macs, but that dual G4 made the Macs look bad. Anyway, I hate flame wars, and yes, I’d love to try Linux on PPC:)
Well, I’ll keep my part of the deal…
Hi my name is Darren LaChausse
email: [email protected]
LOL, watch us become good friends or something over this!!! LOL
Please do not interpret the opinions of “Anonymous” as indicative of all Mac users.
There are those of us who exist outside the “reality distortion field” and are capable of independent thought. We have certainly questioned the SPEC benchmarks and I have come to the conclusion that they are rather misleading, namely because I have been posting SPEC scores for the PPC970 since the scores first became available back in March, and the scores I was using for the 3.06GHz Pentium 4 (which came off spec.org) were significantly higher than those reported by Apple.
But let’s hope this conversation can return to a rational course instead of a yet another PC user vs. Mac user flamewar.
One thing I’ve been wanting to discuss is iSight. It seems it doesn’t obey the DV cam protocol (and thus can’t be used with iMovie) I’m curious if a future firmware upgrade to the camera might make this possible. I think there are many people who would be willing to pay $150 for a firewire DV cam (even if it has no internal recording abilities) but not too many who would be interested in what is essentially a $150 webcam. Any thoughts on this matter?
There are enough things that diferentiate the two machines which make comparison shopping still worth while.
Most of the PC advantages (asside from the build it yourself factor) is the way Microsoft forced out much of the web browser competition thus making their browsing and office document reading experience a lot more compatible than what could otherwise be had if one were to choose a competing product.
The advantages with the Mac, (asside from the the OS and hardware integration… and now speed) are from Apple creating best of breed applications for both consumer and pro creative markets.
Its funny how Microsoft gains its advantages by pushing others out while Apple gains its own by simply creating great products.
I have nothing against Macs personally, just can’t justify owning one right now. I love all computers/OSes, but alas I’m a poor college student just scraping by.
I do have something against benchmarks though. They lie, yet people take them as the gospel. I may sound harsh sometimes in my posts, but I try to combat ignorance where i can. Plus as someone else mentioned, it’s fun to get the zealots riled up, a silly guilty pleasure i guess
I have no ill-will toward Apple and I want them to survive and thrive in the long run.
Hope that clears things up and prevents me from getting flamed to death at the e-mail address I just gave out.
I agree with you, and I’m not a zealot. I’ve put those comments there only to show zealots and people that there is no reason to argue.
On the other hand I am not a Windows user. I use Linux only, and right now Slackware. Slackware is the most bare-bone Linux there is, and I’ve already made allot of changes to the base system. I’m also running it on my Laptop, and I’ll be currious how the Slackintosh port works on a G4 or G5. So, yes, I’m a Linux user. And maybe one day when I’ll have so more money I’ll get a G5 and code under OS X.:)
Btw: Do you own a Mac? What kind and what are you doing with it?
We seem to be of a similar mind. I live the mac OS, but I use other oses every day and can smell BS wherther its Apples, lunux’s or M$’s. But lets be honest, that was the keynote speech to an all apple conference — did anyone really expect Jobs to get up there and say “Well, it’s pretty fast for some things, not so fast for some others, and our OS is really still plating catchup in some areas while in yes others it rocks the box. Oh, and our 64 bit architecture is nice to drool over, but it prolly wont make a hell of a lot of difference for a few years…”? I was expecting an eyecandy fest, and thats what I got. In fact that’s what I wanted. I was really more interested in the OS feature changes than the G5 in any event, because I can’t affor a $3k box right now.
Oh, and I’m planning on getting an iSight. I stopped by an applestore and looked at one. My initial view was that it was a clumsy, ugly little thing, but after working with it some, I decided to grab one — we have a newborn boy and everyone wants to video chat with may wife and I to get a better look at the litle dude in action w/ sound. The iSight looks nice, and I’m sure that apple is going to devellop with it in mind. I’d be happy to post reviews/updates on it in a few weeks.
@debman
to all the critics that will be posting about anything from the speed to the interface…….
your wrong…..if you don’t like apple, don’t buy it.
I like Apple; I own an iBook; I enjoy working with it & showing it off to people. That won’t stop me from being a critic of what I feel are serious mistakes in Apple’s design. Neither will your “love it or leave it” attitude.
That said, I found the products quite interesting. I’d like to point out as well that none of them uses the brushed-metal interface. 😛
One thing I’ve been wanting to discuss is iSight. It seems it doesn’t obey the DV cam protocol (and thus can’t be used with iMovie) I’m curious if a future firmware upgrade to the camera might make this possible. I think there are many people who would be willing to pay $150 for a firewire DV cam (even if it has no internal recording abilities) but not too many who would be interested in what is essentially a $150 webcam. Any thoughts on this matter?
It doesn’t obey the DV cam protocol, because it’s not really a DV cam but a webcam. And there is a seperate protocol for firewire webcams. I doubt that iSight will ever use the DV cam protocol, but I’m pretty sure there is somewhere an application that just records video from a firewire webcam, and converts it into a quicktime format.
I keep forgetting that there’s no “preview” of your post. Ooops!
“Please do not interpret the opinions of “Anonymous” as indicative of all Mac users.”
I never said otherwise, but as long as we’re making bold proclimations like this… “To all PC users here, do not interpret the opinions of Bascule as indicative of all Mac users
“There are those of us who exist outside the “reality distortion field” and are capable of independent thought.”
Now wait a second… you’re just trolling here. Nothing I said could be remotely interpreted as being within the “reality distortion field”.
“We have certainly questioned the SPEC benchmarks and I have come to the conclusion that they are rather misleading, namely because I have been posting SPEC scores for the PPC970 since the scores first became available back in March, and the scores I was using for the 3.06GHz Pentium 4 (which came off spec.org) were significantly higher than those reported by Apple.”
While I certinly don’t doubt your scores were indeed higher, it is important to make your configuration the same way they did in their tests. Remember, Greg Joswiak said that the Dell numbers could have been higher if there were to use the Intel compiler (for example), but that the Apple numbers could be higher with a different compiler too. the point is, is that Apple did their best to make sure that the playing field was level from the start.
I strongly believe Apple will be vindicated when G5s are released and are given the opportunity to benchmark against x86 machines. As a matter of fact, I believe that these reviews will show that Apple was rather conservative with their benchmarks…. but we’ll see.
But let’s hope this conversation can return to a rational course instead of a yet another PC user vs. Mac user flamewar.
“One thing I’ve been wanting to discuss is iSight. It seems it doesn’t obey the DV cam protocol (and thus can’t be used with iMovie) I’m curious if a future firmware upgrade to the camera might make this possible.”
Either that or a simply update to iMovie itself
“I think there are many people who would be willing to pay $150 for a firewire DV cam (even if it has no internal recording abilities) but not too many who would be interested in what is essentially a $150 webcam. Any thoughts on this matter?”
I think you’re on the right track with regard to the firmware update (or my suggestion that they update iMovie). Either way, some might be willing to buy the camera because of its clarity over competing cams. If the Steve’s test comparison with the iBot is as accurate as was shown at WWDC, then that might be a compelling-enough reason right there. (This and the fact that I think Apple has the right idea by pirching it at the top of the monitor rather than on the side like the iBot. These two combinations might cause consumers to pay $150.
Earlier today, I dropped a wad of cash on a Über Mac G5 with 2 Gigs of Ram (from Crucal), 23″ cinema display upgrade graphics card, airport, bluetooth and figured that as long as I’m going all the way, I might as well throw in the iSight.
With the Student Developer discount (20% off) i got a smoken deal on the whole package.
“But lets be honest, that was the keynote speech to an all apple conference — did anyone really expect Jobs to get up there and say “Well, it’s pretty fast for some things, not so fast for some others, and our OS is really still plating catchup in some areas while in yes others it rocks the box.”
That’s pretty much what Steve has been doing for the majority of the G4’s lifetime. If the G5 were of the same calibar, I cant imagine that things would be any different.
Thanfully, Apple made the comparison in as detailed a manor possible lest there be anyone that doubt the immensity of this update.
//I really love fragging PC users with my Mac, they all seem especially miffed because I’m a Mac user.//
What’s it like, working for the Deptarment of Redundancy Department ?
… and if you think the type of computer you use matters during online play … time to get out of jr. high.
The use that I can see for it is interviews. Clip it to the top of a ‘book, hit record, chat with someone, then a few minutes later post it to a website. Either for news or PR. 640×480 is more than enough for such uses, and the quality of the camera and its output is top-notch.
Or for the amateur film maker who has a few laptops(someone on the Windows side is gonna figure out how to capture video from it before too long, and it’s been done on the Mac) sitting around can buy 3 iSight cameras for the cost of a single decent DV camera and get multiple angles.
Speaking of which… it should be possible to video or audio conference between three or more users, given sufficient bandwidth. I’d hope Apple would enable this, either in an update to iChat AV or some kind of pro groupware offering. Many office LANs certainly have the bandwidth.
Apple will get a lot of good press on the G5s. The price is still high. $2K for the low end machine when with the G4s 2K got you the midrange 1.25GHZ duals. Granted the 1.6GHZ G5 will probably be faster than a Dual 1.4GHZ G4 for most tasks.
Their was another comment how UT2K3 was unplayable on a G4 dual 1.4GHZ. Thats just not true.
The Benchmark discussion gets old and its suprising that people only get bent out of shape with Apple benchmarks when ATI, NVidia, Intel, MS and AMD have all cheated on bencharks in the past.
“The price is still high. $2K for the low end machine when with the G4s 2K got you the midrange 1.25GHZ duals.”
First take out the Super drive, and you shave off a few hundred dollars. Then consider the price when its relative to a comperable PC of similar speed and specs. The price is right on on the money.
Just like Windows PCs, you can also opt for lower-end processor by going with the G4. With the introduction of the G5, the G4 towers took a massive price cut.
“The Benchmark discussion gets old and its suprising that people only get bent out of shape with Apple benchmarks when ATI, NVidia, Intel, MS and AMD have all cheated on bencharks in the past.”
lest anyone misunderstand, Apple did not cheat on the benchmarks.
Here’s something I don’t hear much talk about: Trolltech on Monday released a new version of Qt designed for OSX. It’s the Qt 3.1.2 library but uses Carbon underneath, so it DOES NOT need Xfree!! I downloaded it and started playing with it and tested with some of my sample apps, would take a lot more work to actually port real Qt apps to use this lib (dependency libs I’m talking about).
I wrote more about my (lite) experience with it, it’s in the lastest post of my blog if anyone is interested: http://www.ly-tech.com/blog/
Umm… it is my personal homepage so don’t laugh at me for the other silly posts in my blog
Why the hell are people so riled up with Apple’s claim. Whether you believe the benchmarks or not, virtually everyone who was there agrees that the real world testing was legit and the Apples kicked the crap out of the PCs in virtually all of the multimedia tasks. I think this will bear out when the G5s become widely available.
What the hell is wrong with Apple having the “world’s fastest PC”? If the processor was an Athlon 64 or some Intel chip, NOBODY would have questioned Apple’s claim. IBM’s 970 is a monster chip based on the incredible Power4 architecture specially designed for high-bandwidth processing and people are acting as if it just isn’t possible that another company and another architecture can be superior to Intel, AMD, and the x86. As for Apple’s being “equivalent” to PCs, what PC do you know of that has HyperTransport (1 GIG fronstside bus), PCI-X, FireWire 800, the most advanced wireless networking, as well as USB 2.0, FireWire 400, AGP 8x, and Serial ATA all in one unit?
If a PC company had introduced the G5 with an x86 processor, EVERYONE on this forum would be trying to sell their mothers to get one. Apple introduces it and, all of a sudden, the best PC technology on the planet packed into an all-aluminun shell is suddenly “ho hum.”
The hypocrisy is amazing.
lest anyone misunderstand, Apple did not cheat on the benchmarks.
No, Apple didn’t cheat, they just provided misleading information.
Actually, I’d be annoyed if they used AMD or Intel. For one thing, increased competition usually helps. The problem is if it harms rather than legitimizes AMD.
Plus, I like the added vector stuff, even if it’s a kludge. Why should I be unhappy about choice?
Mac’s own
btw- I think were all forgetting one very importrant issue. That is: Its all about personal preffrence.
The top statement is obviously my own preffrence;)