Three interesting Mac-related articles on the net today: “Macs vs PCs“, “From Linux to OS X” and “A Disappointing Look At Apple’s Dual G5 Tower. Not The Machine I thought It Was” (article updated).
From Linux to OS X; Dissapointed by the Dual G5; Macs vs PCs
About The Author
Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
Follow me on Twitter @EugeniaLoli
The G5 was broken and so the report is absolutely useless…
The Mac vs PCs article was very well written, and although I don’t agree with everything that was said (as a user of Windows, *nix, and OS X on a regular basis) this is certainly one of the more balanced comparisions I have seen. One area that seemed to be overlooked is the speed of which Apple releases updates (already releasing its fourth version of OS X, and was only on 10.1 when XP was released). As for giving the two systems a tie on usability this may be fair with Jaguir some of the new features in Panther should give OS X the edge. (Can’t wait for expose and the new finder) Although OS X certainly still needs a single, standard location to launch every application on a system.
I wouldn’t call WindowsXP more usable than Mac OS X. Windows XP is just annoying IMO. Generally there are allot more mouseclicks required to do the same task on windows xp than on mac os x.
Update: 10-10-2:PM — This morning while being tested by an Apple Technician this Dual G5 suffered a complete logic board failure, making this hands-on report rather useless. Rather than delete this entry and mess up external links, we present the column below in it’s entirety. We’ll follow up next week when our CTO Dual G5 is expected to arrive. We apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused. We also apologize to Apple (that’s a first!) for assuming the Dual did not live up to expectations. It still might not, but we’ll have to wait for a properly working machine in order to determine that. – LS/jm
The Powermac was/is broken thus the article is useless, indeed.
The article about the disapointing Mac was writen by someone who obviously should not own a computer. The Mac vs. PC seems to randomly gives scores. The PC has more software- but does it have the software one wants to use? The Mac looks better-but how many people put their pc out for display. People should use the computer is useful for what they want to do.
… about the menu. What did Apple do with the application menu? Yes, I know there are third party sharewares. But as far as I remember, there was a menu in OS 9. Why did they abandon it? This is the strangest idea.
I stopped reading after the first section on usability:
“””
but OS X can also be frustrating. For example, there’s no specific place where you can always, without fail, find a specific application to load. It could be in the Dock, or in the Applications folder, or on the Desktop, whereas all Windows applications can be found from the Start menu, in addition to being found elsewhere.
“””
This is just wrong. All applications in OS X are in the Applications folder, unless you decide to install some somewhere else. The fact that you can stick an alias to an application in the Dock doesn’t mean it no longer exists in the Applications folder. And the fact that you can manually drag an application to your desktop or somewhere else and run it from there is an advantage, not a disadvantage.
On top of all that, the Start Menu in Windows only contains the applications that have put an alias to themselves there or that you’ve put there. It does not automatically contain every application. In fact, it’s easier to make sure every app is available from the Dock, because you can just throw an alias to your Applications folder or root directory in the Dock and use it’s right-click menu to navigate to any app.
And ClearType vs. OS X’s text anti-aliasing is a toss up . Some people like one, some people like the other.
Even if the G5 was broken, isn’t that just a big fault on the side of Apple Computers ? Come on, you shell out big grands for a workstation with all the high specs and you receive a brand new G5 and it’s broken ? Don’t they have something called quality assurance ? Especially with new machines I figure Apple cannot afford mistakes like these. I was especially interested in the fact that he got listed as ‘less-than-desirable-customer’ even when he ordered for many thousands of dollars. I don’t own a Mac, but I’ve heard from Mac users, durability and overall quality lacks sometimes, more often than I hear from Dell customers for instance. ( I remember G4 cube having tremendous problems). This is very bad PR wise. Not only the machine was broken, support was broken too if I read the story correct. Mentioning this guy shouldn’t be owning a G5 is immature and disrepectful. I take this report rather seriously. But hey, Apple doesn’t care or something ?
I had written a long and lengthy response to this article halfway through. Upon finishing it, it’s just easier to point out that this man’s article has little, if any, technical merit to it. He apparently has no inkling of what 64-bit vs. 32-bit computing means, nor how adding a processor in a tightly-coupled system works, nor why a 64-bit, two processor machine will not make your applications load instantly. Oh, and while his Powerbook screen-cracking incident is unfortunate, tech support people (while not always helpful) tend to treat you better if you aren’t a..well, you get the point.
This article should never have been published. I can’t understand wht they did just so it wouldn’t mess up links, etc. Despite the apology, MacNet should really be embarrassed.
As far as I’m concerned, good riddance to “Start Menu”-like menus. I love the Dock. So does my wife. Why does everyone have to be like Windows?
I don’t understand the need for one big menu with every single program on the computer listed on it. If you want to see what programs are available on a Mac, just go look in /Applications or ~/Applications. If it’s not in one of those two places, someone installed in a different location for a reason.
I put my most-used programs on my Dock. For the ones I only use every so often, its only a few extra clicks away.
From my Windows days, I remember the Start Menu being cluttered up with all the README files, uninstallers, and whatever else the installer thought you needed on your menu. Add to that the fact that vendors typically install things under their company name, and it gets really difficult to locate things fast. I can remember my mom trying to find programs and trying to remember the name of the company. e.g. Photoshop is under ‘A’ for Adobe instead of ‘P’.
Everything else was pretty close to the truth though.
Macs are easier, lots. They sweat and sweat over this stuff. Look at the control panels in OS X. They are still sweating over them in Panther, tweaking here, simplifying there. All MS does is keep adding layers and layers of crap to their control panels, which are a horific mess. That’s just one example, but a good one. It’s a major difference in attitute – Apple cares abou this shit and MS cares about . . . market dominance. That’s what keeps billie and balmer on their tippy toes – how do we come out on top and stay on top.
If you don’t like Apple, just say so.
Why do you always have to post such negatively aimed articles regarding Apple? Could you lighten up just a little?
You must have forgotten the right mouse button.
ummmm…you drag your applications folder to the dock (right next to the trash) then you either shift click or right click to get a list…the organization is up to you.
you can even drag your home folder to the dock for fast access to it.
His experiences with support remind me of mine. Never met a competent support guy, with my ISP or any computer vendor, unless their instructions are: be friendly with the client, pat him in the back, and make him hang the phone as quickly as possible. And it goes worse, now that many firms are outsourcing their support: last time, the guy who answered wasn’t even able to utter a sentence in my language!
I’m already using the dock for the main apps, and the other “hacks”. Which are not an excuse for the lack of menu. That said, it has not much importance.
With out a lot of hoo ha.
It should be Mac vs. Windows. Especially since a big part was about price. The Home XP price (full) is $189.00 almost everywhere. But I noticed this is an Aussie site. So maybe some of the prices are wrong, but this still voids the argument. There are thousands of places to get a comparable PC for less than half of what a Mac costs.
But try to find choices on Mac’s. Try to build and customize your own. Try to see how many places can upgrade your hardware. This is what I believe is Mac’s bigest downfall. They are way to priority.
And we will not even get into how Linux blows both PC’s and Mac’s away.
Thanks for your time.
how is it a “hack” to drag the folder into the dock?
IT IS NOT WINDOWS!!!! that is just how it is done on a mac.
god, when will people learn!!
Eugenia is accused of favoring and having a grudge against every imaginable platform. Hilarious!
dude…you are buying a solution. you want to upgrade the internals? get a new machine. but there is little need to do anything to a machine other than add ram and upgrade the video card and hard drive. if I buy an optical drive that meets my needs then I use it until I get a new computer because it ain’t broke. you want to upgrade the mobo? why, a new mac has the lattest ports. those will last you about 4 years before a needed upgrade to the latest technology.
new proc? why? if you are going to get a new machine in 3-4 years why not just wait?
I take the same mentality with my PCs. I end up saving more doing that than spening money on the lattest thing.
Mac zealots everywhere breathe a collective sigh of relief.
Eugenia’s dislike of Vic-20s really pisses me off.
yeah, and her thoughts on the PDP-11 with Teletype interface are realy infuriating, crummy user interface my foot.
Well, there is something that is annoying me more and more with **every** single thread here: When will people finally grasp the distinction between and propper usage of “there” and “their”..?! Learn your basic grammar, at least you native speaking folks so that foreigners like me don’t have to feel the pain upon reading it…
>If you don’t like Apple, just say so.
In the article, there are three articles linked. Funny how you only accusing me because of the negative one, and you completely forget the two positive ones. You only want to see what you want to see, you live in your own little world where everyone is out to get Apple and you are the big bad protector. We bow to you.
“Learn your basic grammar, at least you native speaking folks so that foreigners like me don’t have to feel the pain upon reading it…”
So it’s are childerns falt that the elders during al are childhoods scru over are Edgimacation sistems?
Never the less, it’s not easy to be good at something you were never taught from the ground up at, but instead just picked it up from the day you were born. By the time you get to english classes in school you have pretty much dug into you’re ways.
“I wouldn’t call WindowsXP more usable than Mac OS X. Windows XP is just annoying IMO. Generally there are allot more mouseclicks required to do the same task on windows xp than on mac os x.”
That’s funny, I tend to think the exact opposite. OSX always seems to ask for more clicks than Windows for everything. And XP being far more usable than OSX.
The lesson ? War between different OS users will *always* goes on … 🙂
the diffrence between Apple and Windows usability is that windows has a “wizard” for everyting.
wizards are anoying. they make you feel like you are a guest on the computer and the OS is the one telling you what to do. tehy also make the OS seem…clunky and overly complicated.
Mac OS has no wizards. the design of how to access settings is very simple and clear. the settings system is very clear and uncluttered, and the ways to navigate through the file system is very clear.
I don’t want my computer to ask me questions, I want my computer to do what I tell it to do.
I do like Xp, but I also like my Mac a lot more, I also enjoy Linux and the nix terminal a lot as well.
Most of the *tests* b/w the competing machines were subjective… so…what, in their eyes, was a good thing…. may not be such an issue for others….
Personally, I like Macs and PCs…for different reasons…
Macs – for the physical beauty/craftsmanship…. I think most would agree that the aesthetics and design of the OS is also impressive… it’s functional and pretty… (especially considering the popularity in download #’s of OSX-like themes/skins available for various platforms…compared to the download #’s of XP-like skins)… Many would admire Apple….for having probably one of the *best* GUI’s over a Unix core… Basically, Apple has done *well* what many opensource GUI’s aspire to do…
Don’t get me wrong, im in *NO WAY* bashing the many OpenSource GUI implementations…I think they’re all great projects…and have made a heap of progress… what I’m saying is… the fact that Apple has done what it has… if anything… is an inspiration for the potential of Linux/BSD’s/etc. *It gets me all excited!*
On the PC side – I like PCs because the hardware is more available…. there are more PC-hardware stores…. there’s a greater variety of manufacturers making PC hardware…. and this translates to two major benefits to the customer who’s looking to buy a PC…or PC parts…. *PRICE & OPTIONS*
More Manufacturers = *BETTER PRICES* because of competition….
More Manufacturers = More Options…(configurations)….
The AMD vs. INTEL CPU war….good example of this…. prices have been dropping through the floor b/c these two are constantly trying to beat the other down…. This battle helps the consumer….
It’s unfortunate that I have only one vendor to choose from when it comes to running OSX….
There’s a boatload of other considerations b/w the two…. i could go on forever (and i already have)…. but…. my point is….. i don’t feel that the article does what it intends to do….. It’s way too subjective…. so why bother?
umm…I never understood this.
becasue a computer maker makes a realy good OS and does not share it with any one except those who buy their computers, the copany is doing a bad thing?
“If you don’t like Apple, just say so.
Why do you always have to post such negatively aimed articles regarding Apple? Could you lighten up just a little?”
Articles like these make me come back to read OSNews. You learn something useful, instead of the usual sycophantic articles that do a disservice to us consumers.
I think Eugenia does a great service in providing such articles to us.
If Apple and its zealots don’t like reviews that point out flaws in the latest Macs, or their tech service department, then Apple should build the computers to perform the way their PR department says they perform or how well they are built. The same goes for Dell and his $8 million a month CEO, they produce sub-standard notebooks and when the time comes to honor their warranties everything is nothing but aggravation. Simple, isn’t it?
Good going Eugenia, you get a galactoburiko for dessert!
mario
I was underwhelmed by the G5 dually as well. One of the Professors here bought one as soon as he could, so the Techs got to play with it.
I was also working on a Athlon 2400+ system at the same time as the Mac, and it just snaped and poped. It was crisp and responsive; the Mac seemed dull and limp by comparison. Maybe it’s just aqua, but I can’t stand to work on Macs, the one button mouse especially drives me nuts.
At the end of the day it was just a Mac, nothing really special about it minus the weight of it.
That guy does nothing but pretend to be a Mac uer while denigrating Apple every chance he gets. The “report” is full of factual errors and doesn’t make sense in many places.
yeah, well from what I hear, panther is a lot better int he snappy department.
it is aqua that makes it seem slow, that and some optimisations that are also made in panther.
play with it when he gets panther.
and on the one-button mouse thing…so damn what…get a two button mouse and it works fine with context menues and everything.
The guy is an actual Mac user and did have a bad experience with his machine. It is also explained what was the problem, why the review is not relevant anymore, why they haven’t take it out. He sais that he’ll wait another machine (one that doesn’t have a construction flaw) before writing the real review.
Didn’t you read all that? Or are you pretending that real Mac users cannot be critical?
… to invoke Godwin’s law about the one button mouse too?
I don’t know what all this crap about the Doc on OSX is about. Windows has had Quick Launch on the toolbar (next to the start button if you look or where ever else you want it to be) and it is exactly the same bloody thing only it doesn’t expand the icons when you hover your mouse pointer over it. I always set my systems up with this feature and keep my frequently accessed folders/programs here.
What’s the big deal?
Get over it.
Complaining that some Apple computers are defective is silly. Some cars are defective (called lemons). Some washing machines are defective. Some fax machines are defective. However, certain companies, like Apple, seem to have a better track record than others. Which is why you hear about Apple problems MORE: people buy Apple products assuming they’ll work perfectly every time. Then when they don’t, they raise a big hue and cry. Dell users, for instance, usually just put up with their problems and figure it’s normal. I mean, where’s the DellNet site or DellCentral site that will eagerly post their rants?
Food for thought….
Jared
“Didn’t you read all that? Or are you pretending that real Mac users cannot be critical?”
I also read for about three pages about horrible it was, how disappointed he was, how annoyed he was, how much he wanted it to be good before he even got the the problem. There were two minor ones and his whole logic board is fried. So… f’in useless.
Either just rant and rave so we can judge you (the author) as an idiot for your pointless manderings.
Or actually learn how to write in such a way as to get to the facts and issues and be done with it.
>>>>”umm…I never understood this.
becasue a computer maker makes a realy good OS and does not share it with any one except those who buy their computers, the copany is doing a bad thing?”<<<<
I wasn’t implying that the company is doing a bad thing per say…. just that… in the mac world, *some* hardware—-i.e. the CPU—-isn’t available in an assortment of options.
It’s *JUST* Motorola….or *JUST* IBM…. depending on the season. So, for the consumer looking to make an upgrade purchase, there’s really no competitive pricing….
If there were two (or more) companies that made CPUs that were capable of running OSX… Mac prices might lower slightly… b/c the companies would be competing for sales….
PC’s have Intel, AMD, Cyrix/VIA, C6 (WinChip), Cyrix, Transmeta, etc…. all of them compete, in one way or another, for some niche or broad application…. Intel and AMD compete over the entire spectrum…. While Cyrix/VIA and WinChip are targeting the value market (along w/ AMD’s Duron and Intel’s Celeron)…. While transmeta is after the low-power consumption/mobile market….
…either way…right now, all of these CPUs support the same software. And all of these companies are fighting for a piece of the pie…. translating to lower prices from the Vendors and System Integrators….
It would be nice if there were similar competition in the Apple/Mac hardware arena…. that’s all i was saying.
This bad article was not the authors fault, it was Apples.
He REALLY likes Mac’s or else why buy so many of them?
Every product fails from time to time, that’s life.
The problem is that Apple failed to support a customer.
When he called to report these problems he was told that there was no problem. In effect, “No, your screen looks normal”, when that clearly was not the case. I think he also reported the network issue and was told again, there was no problem.
He also has reason to suspect that he has been flagged as a bad customer and does not get fair treatment. This is NOT how to gain customers.
Had Apple looked into the issues, he might have been writing an article about how great Apples support is and how fast the new system is.
But, since Apple did not support him in any reasonable way, potential Apple buyers will read this article, see how bad support is and how slow and buggy this (now known to be broken) system was and probably never read the follow up article.
It doesn’t matter how fast the replacement is, the public will only remember the slow computer with bad support. People tend to remember bad things much better than good things.
Way to go Apple. Did you learn anything?
Mutiny
Is DOA, why then assume that EVERY Mac is like that?
If a person is constantly getting BSOD’s, the shouldn’t complain HERE they should ring up their vendor and ask them to replace the computer because obviously there is something majorly damaged to cause those sorts of problems.
Same goes for Mac, no one EVER said that Apple Mac were immune to Murpheys Law, no one EVER said that Macs never have problems due to something happening in transit.
I’ve run this Mac for around 1 1/2 months without a hitch, if something did occur, I would take it back to the shop and demand an explaination, that is why you get a 1 year warranty. Not because it is “cool” but because it is a back up/insurance policy in case shit happens.
Why assume they are all like that?
Because Apple support told him twice that his Mac was working normally. Who would know better than them?
Seriously, it is more an article about bad support than bad computers.
Mutiny
“I wasn’t implying that the company is doing a bad thing per say…. just that… in the mac world, *some* hardware—-i.e. the CPU—-isn’t available in an assortment of options.
It’s *JUST* Motorola….or *JUST* IBM…. depending on the season. So, for the consumer looking to make an upgrade purchase, there’s really no competitive pricing….
If there were two (or more) companies that made CPUs that were capable of running OSX… Mac prices might lower slightly… b/c the companies would be competing for sales…. ”
But Macs are in competition against PCs. Macs have to be price competitive against Intel and AMD and such because both markets are not hermetic and if they can’t compete they’ll just lose their (already small) market.
So to say that there is no competition is false, or at least nearsighted.
I’m a first time Mac User (switcher from a Linux background), and honestly, I’m really impressed with the speed (realize I’m coming from a 400mhz pc) and usabilty. Right now I’m running the standard dual 2.0ghz model with an added 1gb of ram.
I still have yet to play around with any office-type apps, but I do most of my writing in tex (which is easily installable with fink).
Oh yeah, fink rocks. Especially since I’m coming from Debian Linux.
“I’m a first time Mac User (switcher from a Linux background), and honestly, I’m really impressed with the speed (realize I’m coming from a 400mhz pc) and usabilty. Right now I’m running the standard dual 2.0ghz model with an added 1gb of ram.”
I noticed a similar speed jump going from Mac to PC – a Mac 7100/66 with 40MB RAM to a 1GHz Athlon with 512MB RAM.
Of course a much faster machine will run better!
Re Macs vs PCs article: I use both Macs and PCs. I like some things about both, and dislike some other things. But the article was complete rubbish. Although it is well written and tries to be balanced, its scoring system is by no means objective – chaotic at best. And the supporting quotes must not be taken to be as evidence – they are not objective by any measure.
Some fine points:
I would give the usability of both Macs and PCs more than 7/10 – maybe 8.5 or 9/10! Why the author gave such a low score is beyond me. DOS would get around 5/10 and Win95 would be around 7/10.
Performance: WinXP wins hands down, and the score he gave for Macs is too high.
Stability: Is this guy mental or what? 6/10 for WinXP? When ALL of the survey results he quoted showed that the ratings of PCs and Macs are within 10% of each other, he gave a difference of over 30%! Why? WinXP and OSX are at least as stable as each other for all practical reasons. If you really want to put a difference in, 9/10 for OSX and 8/10 for WinXP.
Style: What does he mean by that? The actual hardware, or the interface? You can get some really nice looking laptops and desktops these days. Granted Apple’s designs always win hands down, 4/10 for PCs is way too harsh. As for the interface, the WinXP one is not as bad as he thinks it is – on the contrary, it’s quite nice looking. And I like the Aqua interface too.
Cost: Again, he picks one really bad example from Acer to compare directly to Macs. He needs to research more – just pick up one of those PC Magazines he quotes.
And the winner is? The Sunday Morning Herald of course. Look how many hits they got!
it’s just easier to point out that this man’s article has little, if any, technical merit to it. He apparently has no inkling of what 64-bit vs. 32-bit computing means, nor how adding a processor in a tightly-coupled system works, nor why a 64-bit, two processor machine will not make your applications load instantly.
He doesn’t have to. Noone should have to. If Apple markets something as screaming fast it better is, otherwise a consumer will feel cheated. Consumers don’t care about Photoshopfilter xy finishing in half as much time, they focus on what the guy wrote in his article, how fast the mahine feels in average use. They sell it as a superfast desktop, not a superfast scientific/graphicdesign workstation (apart from the point that it’s rather ridiculous that you need such a box to have the OS finally seem fast enough).
The rippling effect that he experienced was due to the low refresh rate of the Apple Cinema Display, not the G5.
I have to say I really do feel sorry for the bloke who wrote that article. He gets “blacklisted” by Apple (I’m sorry, but this is outragious in this day and age) and given pi$$ poor help when he has PAID for it. When someone invests $4k + extras into your flagship product, you DO NOT try to palm them off with “everything is ok, stop bothering us”.
Apple, how dare you.
Perhaps the bloke may be better off going to pc, or if he dislikes x86, even getting a cheep second hand Sun workstation…. I know at least if that was my money, they would just have signed the return form for me with their attitude.
Its this sort of review that makes OSNews a cut above the rest when it comes to the whole IT buisness. Peoples personal reviews of what they experience are more important then simply stating what a particular OS or computer “should” able to do out of the box, well, more important to me at least. Well played Eugenia, well played.
MacNET is known for being critical of Apple, it is one of my favorite Mac sites. There are too many zealot sites out there and from reading them you get the idea that every Mac is a gift from the almighty. The guy that runs MacNET is a wealthy man in his late 40’s with some very heavy connections to cupertino. His input is very valuable to the mac web.
Their articles on MacNET are linked on dozens of sites so it is completely understandable that they didn’t want to take the article down. It was also quite responsible to provide an update to it and tell the readers that the G5 turned out to be bad.
The author knows that he will be slammed by the zealots yet he continues to write. That’s a brave thing to do in the world of mac users. Mac users tend to eat their own when they sway from the message of “Steve Jobs is God”.
The author, John Manzione, is one hell of a writer. This particular article showed his real pain in even writing about the G5. You could feel his struggle with it. Yes there was hardly any real data in the column, it was more like a passion play, but this the kind of writing that brings me back there whenever they publish something new. And he is not always slamming Apple, take a look at MacNET’s piece on why Panther is a good buy. MacNET is the most balanced mac centric site on the web. The zealots hate him for it, and that says more about the immaturity of mac owners more than anything else.
The way Manzione talks about his old G4 (867 MHz, 640 MB of RAM), it gives the impression it’s slow. I don’t own a Mac but I would have thought that such amount of RAM would allow the OS to be really fast. On a PC, 512 MB greatly enhances the responsiveness of the computer. Then again, last time I used a Mac, it was a Quadra (way back in school).
Maybe Apple should tone down their claims a bit (the G5 is the world’s fastest personal computer, the G4 has lightning fast processor speeds, …) and concentrate on enlisting more retailers. Within a mile of my home, there are 6 PC stores : If I wish so, I can purchase parts and build a PC in an afternoon. A contrario, Apple resellers are nowhere to be found (well, they’re located downtown but don’t have enough supplies) : that is a great disadvantage for aspiring Mac switchers.
“During the debacle that was my first 17” PowerBook I was told by an Apple employee not to register future purchases in my name since my “Permanent Record” in Cupertino has me labeled as a “less than desirable customer”. Not really believing that Apple would actually hold my ‘public rant’ against me I went and registered my new computer in my name anyway.”
A less than desirable customer?? I’ve been blacklisted at work for working in the students’ interest when I was a student. Now companies are blacklisting the customers who share their experiences with other potential customers?
At this moment I have to say a really big “whoah!” is in order.
Isn’t there something wrong here???
Robert, I know there are many little Mac zealot sites out there, but they are inconsequential. The really good sites, like MacInTouch and MacFixit, are the first to report problems with Macs and go into great detail about user’s experiences.
As this MacNet article, I cannot see where this guy is such a great writer. I’m not biased about his actual opinions, but parts of his article are actually incoherent…they don’t make any sense and it’s almost impossible to follow his line of thought. From what you say, that must not usually be the case, but he’s talking about so many different things at the same time – i.e. ordering a 1.8 and then sending it back – I found it hard to take him seriously. Perhaps it was wise after all to leave the article thee because of the links, etc., but I would be embarrassed to have written something like that and have to keep it up there.
His struggles seem to be more like someone so impatient they don’t know what to do with themselves. His experience with Apple Support certainly doesn’t reflect my own experiences. But, I will read MacNet again and give it a chance when this stuff gets straightened out.
It’s *JUST* Motorola….or *JUST* IBM…. depending on the season. So, for the consumer looking to make an upgrade purchase, there’s really no competitive pricing….
Then again, when a person purchases a computer, how many, honestly, consider upgrading their processor? most end users I know *MAY* add more memory, but intensively overhaul their machine? hirely unlikely. They’ll look at the price, look at a new computer and say, “well, it just isn’t worth the fuss” and simply buy a new one, with newer software and features.
The guy who runs macnet is a wanna be w/ a lot of money from some pizza franchises (not that theres anything wrong with that).
He is an obsessive/masochistic mac owner.
his ordeal w/ his PB 17″ was hilarious, and his site has been fun to read ever since cause of his public unraveling.He’s like the submissive wife who hates her husband but won’t leave him.
I also remember him writing that Rush limbaugh should be Apple’s salesman because rush uses macs and has a large audience, and was enraged that the evil liberal steve jobs appointed Al Gore to Apples board.
Boy, looking at rush today, that sure would a helped Apples PR.
If you have money to burn and/or you absolute need tip-top performance. Maybe something like is worth it.
A decent dual G5 settup is going to cost over $3000. You can get a decent PC settup for 25% of that.
A guess apple only wants to target the hoity-toity niche markets. This thing isn’t going to be main-stream.
BTW: I think the biggest bottle-next in PC performance today, is internet bandwidth.
If you have money to burn and/or you absolute need tip-top performance. Maybe something like is worth it.
A decent dual G5 settup is going to cost over $3000. You can get a decent PC settup for 25% of that.
A guess apple only wants to target the hoity-toity niche markets. This thing isn’t going to be main-stream.
BTW: I think the biggest bottle-next in PC performance today, is internet bandwidth.
>>>>”But Macs are in competition against PCs. Macs have to be price competitive against Intel and AMD and such because both markets are not hermetic and if they can’t compete they’ll just lose their (already small) market. So to say that there is no competition is false, or at least nearsighted.”<<<<
&
>>>>”Then again, when a person purchases a computer, how many, honestly, consider upgrading their processor? most end users I know *MAY* add more memory, but intensively overhaul their machine? hirely unlikely. They’ll look at the price, look at a new computer and say, “well, it just isn’t worth the fuss” and simply buy a new one, with newer software and features.”<<<<
~~~~Again, my intentions were not to imply a lack of competition between the two platforms. I was merely suggesting that there is a lack of competition targeting, specifically, the macintosh platform.
If both Motorola and IBM produced comparable chips (speed/performance/capabilities)… and could run OSX/modern mac software… the two companies would be in competition, and thus be engaged in a pricewar (similar to that of AMD&Intel).
This sort of competition on the mac platform would help Apple and its consumers… because the components that a mac consists of…. would become less expensive… so, regardless if you were upgrading… or even buying a new system…. The cost of doing such….would inevitably decrease.
…which would also help Apple be even more competative on the macroscopic, Mac vs PC, price comparison….
That’s basically all i was saying. *I LOVE BOTH PLATFORMS* =) If I had the money, I’d own more mac stuff than I do… but i’ iz PO! =(
Yeah, okay – whatever. Nice to see the post has been updated. =)
“During the debacle that was my first 17” PowerBook I was told by an Apple employee not to register future purchases in my name since my “Permanent Record” in Cupertino has me labeled as a “less than desirable customer”. Not really believing that Apple would actually hold my ‘public rant’ against me I went and registered my new computer in my name anyway.”
A less than desirable customer?? I’ve been blacklisted at work for working in the students’ interest when I was a student. Now companies are blacklisting the customers who share their experiences with other potential customers?
At this moment I have to say a really big “whoah!” is in order.
Isn’t there something wrong here???
Not really. If you’ve ever worked with customers, you’ll find that there are some that will never be happy. Apple is a business, and some customers are just not worth it.
I’m not surprised that the Apple tech didn’t believe that he shattered the screen on his PowerBook just by opening the lid. I doubt any other companies would have replaced it either. The guy is probably lying.
I doubt that his blacklisting has anything to do with his “public rant”. He probably made an a$$ out of himself to an Apple tech. support rep.
Regarding the macnet2 artice “A Disappointing Look At Apple’s Dual G5 Tower. Not The Machine I thought It Was”:
This only proves that today’s computers are not only fast enough for most everyday tasks, but that they are so fast that you can’t notice any speed difference any more formost of the time.
Since his last machine was pretty much maxed out regarding HD, graphics and whatever, the only real difference would be processor speed. But in today’s computers the processor has to wait for all the peripherals most of the time anyway. So one CAN’T notice any difference UNLESS one does processor intenive tasks like video processing or similar, tasks that MAKE ONE WAIT for the machine for at least 2 minutes. I NEVER do such tasks, so I’m pretty happy with my Celeron-650 (Oh, sorry, hope I’m allowed to post here in spite of not owning a MAC 😉 ).
And NO, the machine is NOT defective (except maybe for the graphics card and the WLAN), contrary what a couple of mac evangelists there suppose. There is no defect that would slow down a machine by half or something, except some very bad software malconfiguration. Forget it guys. The G5 just is not any faster in user PERCEIVED speed, ie Finder, opening apps, shuffling windows etc. because the G4s already were fast enough.
Philotech
Since when does a company produce 100% perfect product?
More to the point, this particular user seems to have a problem with EVERY machine he has ever purchased. If you do a little reading, you will see that this particular user was/is considered undesirable for his attitude and the way he treated the Apple support staff. He was abusive and then started posting unfounded, unwarranted rants on the internet under the guise of being a journalist. I am not sure when having a blog makes you a journalist, but I want my press passes if it does.
As to Apple having quality issues… you are talking outa your ass. Apple has some of the best QC people in the biz and repeatedly gets high marks from JD Power and other independant research firms. The Dells that I have are cheap crap compared to anything Apple makes.
The issues wit the Cube was more of a perception problem than an actual issue. The molding process produced vertical lines at 2 opposing corners. People saw them and thought they were cracks. The word got out that the Cubes were cracking and from there spread like wildfire. Sometimes the Internet can suck!
If everyone would just read the post at the top of the article you will see that there was a logic board issue which Apple replaced and therefore the entire article should be disregarded.
<<Even if the G5 was broken, isn’t that just a big fault on the side of Apple Computers ? Come on, you shell out big grands for a workstation with all the high specs and you receive a brand new G5 and it’s broken ? Don’t they have something called quality assurance ? Especially with new machines I figure Apple cannot afford mistakes like these. I was especially interested in the fact that he got listed as ‘less-than-desirable-customer’ even when he ordered for many thousands of dollars. I don’t own a Mac, but I’ve heard from Mac users, durability and overall quality lacks sometimes, more often than I hear from Dell customers for instance. ( I remember G4 cube having tremendous problems). This is very bad PR wise. Not only the machine was broken, support was broken too if I read the story correct. Mentioning this guy shouldn’t be owning a G5 is immature and disrepectful. I take this report rather seriously. But hey, Apple doesn’t care or something ?>>
Uh, if you look apple up on resellerratings they have a 2.5 out of 10 rating for the last 6 months. Resellers really tries to monitor and validate the ratings given. Shows that even established companies have a hard time giving “good” support.
Why even publish the article if you can’t test the g5 out. Have Apple send you another one, that’s what I used to have hp do when I was a tech with them.
Winmag and others windows oriented magazines gave Apple a hands down on speed compared with Intel.
This is a guy who would find something wrong with God or heaven.
Look at the rat-nest the G-5 is setting in anyways. No wonder the thing didn’t run right…lol.
Old hat! Can’t this publisher get a G5 to test??? That would be my question if I was his senior editor. He mentions the system in the article and acts like,,,,,” we have to “really” see if it’s fast as Apple claims”,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,daaa dude get a test model or go to comp usa and do test like every other news magazine is doing!
Ah, all the Apple apologists come crawling out as usual.
“It was obviously broken” — well, Apple certainly didn’t seem to think so. Either way, I blame Apple.
And for all those who insist it’s not Apple’s fault…
… is the Mac the fans always claim is about having computing that “just works”?
Sure doesn’t look like a no-hassle setup to me.
Interesting article, but I disagree with the conclusion for 2 reasons. 1. The only categories that apple won it seemed to win but much too large of a margin. Giving windows machines a 6 in stability to a 9 for macs is a joke. They’d have to be a 7 at least. And giving pcs a 4 for design is insulting. Since they live in the underbelly of the world they may not have access to good looking machines like falcons, alienware, etc. Again it should be at least a 7. Add those 5 points to the correct score (they said 45, it was actually 44) and pc wins by 1.
2. The pc prices they quoted applied to their country, which makes them much higher than you can find here in the states. The pc they said was $2500 or so is less than $1500 here. And they failed to mention that it had a much more powerful processor than the apple.
It was a balanced try at deciding a winner, so you have to applaud them. At least a little.
The Macs vs PC article is totally nonsense. To compare computers you need dozens of pages to come to any conclusion. And why should one category “style of the computer” weight as much as “security” and so on? I think the “style” is nice, but isn’t as important as “stability” or “available software”….The author just decides for us to write down some categories, and gives some random examples. Like 3 or 4. But where are the other 100 examples in that category, that might change the whole conclusion? The author just grabs some points randomly, I cannot take the article serious. I use both PC and Mac – I concluded computers are to complex to compare.
The fact that the author had so much trouble convincing apple that his machine was broken is the new point. They said twice there were no problems and called him a liar. Then it finally breaks when he gets someone out. Instead of being about speed it ended up being about apple’s ego in think that no way their top of the line could break.
“Then again, when a person purchases a computer, how many, honestly, consider upgrading their processor? most end users I know *MAY* add more memory, but intensively overhaul their machine? hirely unlikely. They’ll look at the price, look at a new computer and say, “well, it just isn’t worth the fuss” and simply buy a new one, with newer software and features.”
I’ve had this machine for almost 5 years. This is my 4th processor (celeron 400 oc’ed to 450, pentium 3 700, unlocked p3 1.2ghz running at 1.1 and now a celeron 1.4ghz running at 1.56ghz). None of the ram is original (started with a single stick of 128, now 3 sticks of 256). The hard drive is new, well newer (60gb ata66 original was a 6.8 gb ata33). The cd/dvd drives are new (started with a 32x cdrom, replaced it with an 8/4/32 cdrw, then a 48/16/48 cdrw and added a 16x dvd). 3rd video card (started with a tnt2 ultra, then a geforce 2 mx400 now a ti4200). Mouse new two years ago. Keyboard new last christmas. New monitor 3 years ago. New case last spring. The speakers, modem, soundcard, nic (first one anyone, have 2 now) and motherboard are the same. Last spring I almost upgraded (which is why I got the case). Instead I spent $80 to upgrade the processor, $75 on ram and $100 on the video card. I saved a couple hundred dollars by upgrading. And this config will last me at least another year before I have to do a complete new system. Even then the hard drive will probably come with (60gb is enough storage for me thanks).
I don’t mind articles on OS’s and platforms – that’s basically what this site was built upon. However, it’s really hard to gauge an OS based on an install and testing of the base distribution. Conclusions can only be made after a reasonably lengthy test of the OS… I mean, how easy is it to upgrade certain software applications that are dependent on a new version of glibc? or if a mediaplayer suddenly supports a new standard codec? Each OS has their temperament in this regards and none is perfect – not Macs, Windows, or Linux.
That said, I tested the new dual G5 tower at Fry’s this week and must admit that I was not impressed. There was a lag when performing simple functions such as clicking and moving of windows. Who knows, could be that the system was faulty and misconfigured, but it certainly wasn’t a good presentation. Perhaps I can save a few minutes when compiling a complete Mozilla distribution, or a few hours if I render a movie clip but these large scale tasks I’ll usually run when I leave for the night and check when I get in in the morning. Ultimately, I’m more affected by the small things of an OS.
1: Macs are more expensive as well over seas so the price is not an issue.
2: the fact you claim a G% is not as powerful as p$ or a Xeon shows your zealotry. so why should anything you write be considered less than that?
Macs are considerably more expensive in Australia than in the US. Whitebox PCs are about the same price in Australia as the US as our labour costs are less. Plenty of whitebox installers will build a PC and install the software for the price of the components alone.
A reliable whitebox PC generally costs about 1/3 the price of a similar performing Mac. The dual G5 actually represents good value for money but the single CPU G5 is very expensive for the performance offered.
The article is useless. The author said so himself.
“Update: 10-10-2:PM — This morning while being tested by an Apple Technician this Dual G5 suffered a complete logic board failure, making this hands-on report rather useless”
Its also not hard for Apple to check your system out. Call them or bring it into an Apple authourized repair center, its not dramatic at all. I don’t see what all the fuss is about.
<<Uh, if you look apple up on resellerratings they have a 2.5 out of 10 rating for the last 6 months. Resellers really tries to monitor and validate the ratings given. Shows that even established companies have a hard time giving “good” support.>>
Why would I use a site that only bases it’s ratings on submitted information? People are alwaysmore willing to complain than say something positive.
Also, after looking at some of the complaints, I am really surprised you might bring it up. For the most part I would like to smack some of these people with a fish for being such boneheads!
You have to write a script to browse a directory? HUH?
He has to take a day off work to sign for a cable from Fedex? What? Dude, write on the note Fedex leaves that you will pick it up… what the hell is wrong with these people?
Until you posted it I had never heard of the site, so I doubt this is a decent cross section.
JD Power is a highly regarded company, they rate Apple as one of the top computer manufacturers for both service and support.
<< I’ve had this machine for almost 5 years. This is my 4th processor (celeron 400 oc’ed to 450, pentium 3 700, unlocked p3 1.2ghz running at 1.1 and now a celeron 1.4ghz running at 1.56ghz). None of the ram is original (started with a single stick of 128, now 3 sticks of 256). The hard drive is new, well newer (60gb ata66 original was a 6.8 gb ata33). The cd/dvd drives are new (started with a 32x cdrom, replaced it with an 8/4/32 cdrw, then a 48/16/48 cdrw and added a 16x dvd). 3rd video card (started with a tnt2 ultra, then a geforce 2 mx400 now a ti4200). Mouse new two years ago. Keyboard new last christmas. New monitor 3 years ago. New case last spring. The speakers, modem, soundcard, nic (first one anyone, have 2 now) and motherboard are the same. Last spring I almost upgraded (which is why I got the case). Instead I spent $80 to upgrade the processor, $75 on ram and $100 on the video card. I saved a couple hundred dollars by upgrading. And this config will last me at least another year before I have to do a complete new system. Even then the hard drive will probably come with (60gb is enough storage for me thanks).>>
Right out there on the rusting edge huh?