The stage is set for a showdown between ‘Longhorn’ and Linux systems, as Microsoft, Red Hat and SuSE kick off a war of words.
‘Longhorn’ Pitted Against Linux 2.6
About The Author
Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
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Okay, linux wins major points on actually existing… but is it enough to win?
A few articles ago, I mentioned Microsoft’s release of FUDware like LongHorn is intended to nullify competitors, by setting up a situation where actual products are compared against Microsoft press releases and promises. “The next version! Wait for the next version!” The final shipping product (when there actually is one) rarely lives up to what the FUDware promised.
On actually existing? I think Linux wins points on being “closer to being ready,” they both definitely exist. And not in some pseudo-philosphical way either. Developers at the PDC were given an alpha build of Longhorn. And of course there are beta builds of 2.6 available as well.
MSFT has legit reasons for releasing a lot of their code to developers early. For one, when Longhorn finally ships, they want to have lots of ‘Longhorn-ready’ apps available immediately to run on the new OS. This means keeping developers in the loop early and often.
*cough*cairo*cough
The final version of the 2.6 Linux kernel is expected to be released by year’s end, though officials for leading Linux distributors Red Hat Inc. and SuSE Linux AG said that kernel is unlikely to be incorporated into their products for at least a year.
That is the only mention of Redhat or SuSe in the article, how exactly is this a war of words? It was a MS commercial with a few BUT’s included.
Move along.
More non-innovations. Not only is Mozilla’s XUL precedent for it, but also Qt Designer + KDE’s XMLGUI. Basically, Qt Designer specifies a GUI in an XML format. A program called ‘uic’ (User Interface Compiler) than compiles that XML format into C++ code, just like XAML. XMLGUI is KDE’s system that specifies toolbars and menu items as XML files. XMLGUI is one of the nifty features that make KDE apps so easy to write — actions are totally independent of the toolbar or menu items that invoke them. This makes it a lot easier to polish the UI layout without actually touching any code.
yeah, the 2.6 kernel may not be in the distro officially, but the distros will be “2.6 ready”
I say that they will be 2.6 ready because the 2.6 kernel needs certain libraries that are not installed on current systems.
and I am sure that all distros will provide the kernel as an install option for those brave souls who want to use it, but that does not mean the system will be optimized to use the new kernel, so some settings and systems will have to be modified so that they take proper advantage of the new kernel features.
“Longhorn” won’t be released for years, and its own developer admits that it’s alpha code that will change a lot. Couple that with Microsoft’s history of fudware vs actual product (“cairo”, for instance), and it seems really unfair that the I.T. industry has to compete against Longhorn. Loghorn can be anything Microsoft needs for it to be, until it’s actually released. The press dutifully reports Longhorn-brand promises and runs reviews of “X vs Longhorn” — how is X supposed to get a fair review under those circumstances? Will these same reviewers also run reviews of “Windows XP vs Mac OS X 10.8” and “Windows XP vs. Linux 3.2?” I doubt it. Not that they should, of course.
but Linux kernel 2.6 will be pretty much be more stable for the enterprise by then, and therefore MS will be competing with that in 2006/7.
So my question how far ahead is 2.6 Vs any MS kernel offering currently, and do you think it will be still be true around 2006/7? I am of course talking about enterprise first and then the desktop stuff.
How can MS dislike the oss/gpl folks… they just keep borrowing ideas and calling themselves inovators.
“”WinFS is actually NTFS [NT File System] with SQL Server replacing the current indexing method in Windows. XAML [XML Application Markup Language] is nothing more than another monopoly-styled move to pull the carpet from under Mozilla’s open XUL [XML User Interface Language], which is already partially supported in Safari 1.1 [‘Panther’ version],” he said.”
2.6 is going to be released by the end of 2003, while longhorn dosent comeout till 2006-2007
Shouldnt it be Linux kernel 2.8 vs Longhorn???
given the development cycle on Linux kernels (save for the oddball 2.4 kernel) and given that the Development responsibilities have been changed (Linus is only in charge of development kernels now and has handed off maintenance of the new stable kernel to who ever shows the most interest in the development kernel. I think it is Andre for 2.6), I would say that by 2006, we will have a 2.7 development at least nearing the testing stages for 3.0 or maybe a 3.0 stable.
I agree. The idea of Longhorn v. 2.6 is inane. Whatever anyone is a fan of — Linux, Windows, whatever…it’s just a silly comparison that has nothing to do with reality and everything to do with a spiffy-sounding headline.
Oh, and @ anonytroll: What currently exists as Longhorn probably bears little resemblance to what will eventually be sold to the public.
Irrelevent that Longhorn is “alpha code that will change a lot”. It exists. It is not vapourware (like Cairo was). The development tools are usable with it now and companies like Adobe and Amazon are starting to write preliminary Longhorn apps already. MSFT is asking ISV devs for lots of feedback so they can apply it to the OS in future builds.
As for competing against “OS X 10.8”, has Apple released this as an alpha to Mac developers? No.
There will be no Longhorn before 2006. This “showdown” is just a marketing attempt to remind people about Microsoft. Microsoft has nothing new to offer for a while so they must be drumming about their future plans instead of what they have now.
When Longhorn finally is revealed, the situation around it will be very much different from what it is today.
is that although it works against normal competitors. There products don’t sell as well and they lose the momentum to keep up due to lack of sales. OSS development does not work like that.
” With Linux you start reading user forums and spend hours trying to get a compenent to work half-way, IF even that.
”
Hmmm I think I understand now. You are a linux drop out. You couldnt handle it and thats why your bashing it.
No linux drop out here, I thought it was so wonderful and bug free. So you admit the only way to get it to halfway function on a laptop is the user forums. THEN you are going to trust someone off the internet, yeah right and I have some swamp land to sell you.
This is the height of insanity, pay $80 for software that does NOT work on my laptop, no thanks.
Win XP Pro just works and has functionality.
Irrelevent that Longhorn is “alpha code that will change a lot”. It exists. It is not vapourware (like Cairo was). The development tools are usable with it now and companies like Adobe and Amazon are starting to write preliminary Longhorn apps already. MSFT is asking ISV devs for lots of feedback so they can apply it to the OS in future builds.
Why are you arguing with him on the point that it is alpha code and there is alot more yet to be added. Not everything Microsoft is creating was able to be added to the PDC preview version. XAML is one example, Aero is another, an up-to-date DirectX is another, if you look in the task manager, there are a good number of services that have yet to be removed as the replacements are only 1/2 complete and once complete, they’ll be replaced. For example, fontcacheservice.exe and FontCashService.exe services and the reply by a MS employee:
02/11/2003 03:40:40 PM .
From: “Claude Betrisey [MSFT]” <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: fontcacheservice.exe and FontCashService.exe
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windows.developer.winfx.general
Hi,
This service is the cross process font cache service that is used by Avalon
text rendering for performance.
It provide caching for the list of fonts that are located in the default
font folder, their properties and metrics, the bitmap of common glyph for
common fonts at common sizes.
This service can be safely stopped. If you stop the service it will only
affect performance where each process will have to do all the rendering
instead of relying on the cross process cache.
The reason you see two font cache service is only temporary. One of them
will be removed soon. The code was transitioning and we were not able to
remove the old one on time for PDC.
Claude Betrisey
Alpha means that there is still more to be added and not yet feature complete, beta means that it is almost feature complete but not quite and RC is “nothing to be added or changed except for bugfixes and show stoppers” and RTM is used for vendors to stress test their servers and desktops with. Any bugs that occur need to be fixed then and there before it can ship.
I can’t believe there are people lame enough to compare an alpha, not yet feature complete, loaded with bugs operating system vs a kernel which is in the final stages of being released. It would be like comparing Linux 2.5.1 against Windows XP.
Longhorn is the latest technology and will be an excellent operating system. MS did a great job with Windows 2000 Professional and Windows XP Professional/Home editions. The benefit with MS is the software selection, hardware, drivers ect and they actually work.
Plus, vendors certify the hardware compliant with MS software. With Linux you start reading user forums and spend hours trying to get a compenent to work half-way, IF even that.
Okay, time to feed the troll once again. What does not work? Here is a scenario I just tested so I can back up claims. The machine is an HP Pavilion 725n, of which I have added an Audigy sound card, HP Scanner, and an Avermedia TV Card.
Starting with the Windows XP install, the nforce chipset worked, and there was sound, however the full capabilities of the sound card were not available until I installed the creative drivers. The scanner and TV card did not work at all without installing the drivers for the respective devices. The time for this took 60 minutes, and that does not include the productivity apps like MS Office installed, but rather just the base system with those items working.
The SUSE 9 install recognized the soundcard (full capabilities), the TV Card, and I was able to get the scanner working very quickly. The only item that did not work out of the box was the nForce network card, of which I went to NVIDIA’s web site, got the Linux drivers, and installed them. The time for this install and configuration took 45 minutes, and this one does include a professional quality Office suite, OpenOffice.org. OpenOffice.org works great, and I have used it often for presentations and documents.
In less time I was at a productive state with using SUSE then I was with Windows XP. I like both OS, and use both as I manage a Windows Server 2003 AD Domain, so Windows is the right OS for that job.
To all, I apologize for the length of this post, but I get tired of seeing someone who has apparently never tried an item they happen to be bashing, that also refuses to back it up with facts.
“And who are you? An English drop-out?”
Why yes i did.How did you know?Your smart.Will you be my friend?Oh comeon?We can have a sleep over and play DOOM!That would be so cool.Your cool.Im tired.Nite.
Lol Anonytroll, you can’t offend me. Ive seen your previous posts and have formed very little respect for your opinions.
yeah deak r if you say so.. latest technology how ? whats so great about what they have announced whats been so amazingly innovative ? have you used it yet ? how can you glorify something that is on what.. a beta and the beta sucks ass.
“The benefit with MS is the software selection, hardware, drivers ect and they actually work.”
and everything that is supported in the kernel works in linux too.. and the2.6 kernel is just as easy to get it working never mind the fact of nvidia with their drivers and ati with theirs.
ive used the 2.6 kernel have you used longhorn yet ?
how is it light years ahead ahem.. obviously you have not tried a recent linux distro.. great comparisons of complete crap..
how did they do a great job with 2000 professional / winxp ? hold up how long ago since everyone running 200 professional / win xp got the lovely worm.. how long ago was it ? exactly has the problem been fixed ? as far as ive seen its still ongoing and the patches are just that stupid patches a temporary fix not a permamanent one, and their latest brainstorm oh no screw fixing the problem we will auto configure the firewall to block ports that are vulnerable great fix that.. its like having a great big hole in your roof and trying to fix it blue peter style with some cardboard and sticky back plastic..
How many are actually believing the media hype ? how many do you really think that know enough about os’s are actually believing the hype ? thats all it is its just hype they are so scared about linux eating more into their monopoly that they now have moved over to dont bother switching to another os. windows foghorn leghorn will do all of this.. dont look at it in more detail we say its truly innovative take our word for it.. no no dont look at them opensource people they dont know what theyre doing really they dont.. dont believe their hype ours will be much better it will give 30000 days a year uptime.. blah blah bulshit ad nausium.. oh yes we do love bsd cos we can just take their code and stick it in our os.. no no gpl is bad very bad.. we cant use their hard work and stick it into our os and extortion you hard working people..
thats basically how it goes.. thats all their marketing and pr says to me.. and well any company that has to hype something that is not gonna be ready for a few years must be desperate imho.
Oh man, I’m SO FIRED AS A TROLL.
To answer the question of why the author chose to evaluate Suse linux on a laptop is because if you look at the stats laptop sales were up when pc sales were down. Plus, this is not free, and Suse should be doing R & D work to make sure it is compatibly with the hardware. This is a software company right? I do not see the cost to benefit if the end user has to spend hours searching for drivers, reading user forums or just plain having a non-functioning device on his laptop.
Like I stated before, do a search for linux on laptops and read about it. It is not pretty; most linux distro’s will not even install much less function. So this proves the point, linux is NOT ready for the laptop or even close.
This is the height of insanity, pay $80 for software that does NOT work on my laptop, no thanks.
You said you never used linux…. However the statments makes it look like you have used…
How do you know if it works on your laptop? Why even investigate the possiblities? How do you know that the programs dont work? So if you havent used it, they how can your claims be sound?
OSS/GPL has been used (and still used) by some of the largest companies/gov in the world.
Sun (SUN OS), Intel, NASA and thats just to name a few. If the software didnt work then why are people/companies/gov’s using it. Why has microsoft called linux their 2nd greatest threat (economy is first)… Seems kind of strange that MS would classify defective software as their biggest threat…. UNLESS THEIR SOFTWARE IS WORSE. I see the light now Derk…
“Why are you arguing with him on the point that it is alpha code and there is alot more yet to be added?”
He said that Longhorn is equivalent to Cairo (vapourware) and “OS X 10.8” (?) and he is quite simply wrong. Longhorn isn’t vapourware, even though it may not be as far along as Linux 2.6. So what? That was never my point. There is still plenty new there worth talking about because it exists.
Like I stated before, this answers the question. Do a search for linux on laptops. This will end the question, it is a nightmare at best.
Lastly, this software costs money and it should WORK on my laptop otherwise it is worthless.
what laptop do you have Deak R. because some laptops work without any problems others do have problems.. the different vendors have a hardware list of what laptops work / dont work.. also as to the fact of having to pay 80 buck no you bloody well dont have to you can download most of them if not all of them.. even suse you can install via http://ftp...
basically you are picking on something that you know might not have great support.. as it goes ive got a compaq armada laptop and linux works perfectly on it i have debian running on it and it works a treat.. so what you are saying to me sounds like bull..
its like calling tech support and saying my net connection doesnt work and only providing that much detail for all they know you might not even have your computer on for your net connection to work.
and you have completely CHANGED YOUR ARGUEMENT FROM A FEW POSTS AGO to remind you this was your arguement:
“Longhorn is the latest technology and will be an excellent operating system. MS did a great job with Windows 2000 Professional and Windows XP Professional/Home editions. The benefit with MS is the software selection, hardware, drivers ect and they actually work.
Plus, vendors certify the hardware compliant with MS software. With Linux you start reading user forums and spend hours trying to get a compenent to work half-way, IF even that.
Lastly, using a pc at home is now more mundane and most could care less about the system code, they just want it to work and have functionality and ease of use. This is where Windows is light years ahead of linux.”
now its linux and laptops get your story straight
Like I stated before, do a search for linux on laptops and read about it. It is not pretty; most linux distro’s will not even install much less function. So this proves the point, linux is NOT ready for the laptop or even close.
Once again, on a Dell latitude CX400 Laptop both the RedHat and SUSE distros install and runs great. Everything on the laptop is supported out of the box.
With the apparent changes in Longhorn, it seems to me that as with Windows XP, there will be many pieces of hardware that did not work for a few months until the hardware vendors had time to write new drivers for thier items.
I couldn’t get Suse 8.1 to even boot on my computer. I have a Tyan Thunder K7 with some weird SCSI controller I don’t use. Point being that after 1/2 hour of installing, it just wouldn’t load, it would simply cycle through the load up, and as soon as it got the hardware aspect, reboot. I emailed Suse a couple times, but having never tried Suse or any linux before that, all the instructions were cryptic, so I gave up, went back to windows.
I’ve tried a few other distros since, all of which haven’t given me the issues Suse had, and enjoyed playing with a few of them (libranet, redhat). That said, i’m no where near as comfortable in linux as I am in windows, and the prospect of rying to get Suse to work on my comp is still intimidating.
Perhaps if you could buy a laptop with a Linux distribution pre-installed you wouldn’t have such problems.
But of course there is a software company with an anti-competitive monopoly involving hardware manufacturers. Oh well.
I worked at Microsoft during the 2000/XP years. It always amazed me how even within the company they would tout all this crap that never came to fruition. It will be the same with Longhorn. That’s is how it is in Redmond.
When I look at Longhorn, I don’t find a single “innovation” tempting. Just the looks of it are slower that frozen mud. Of course I haven’t tried it, and I probably won’t until the company I work for starts developing for it, but I don’t expect much. It will simply be the status quo; as we have seen with every other Windows release.
If I am paying $80 for software, IT should work on my laptop. So now I have to buy a special laptop with it pre-installed. This defeats the purpose, it should work. Otherwise it is a waste of money.
Deak why are you not replying to my post is it because you have nothing to reply back to ? what is your laptop ? and what the hell has your laptop not working with a verion of suse that uses the 2.4 kernel have anything to do with the upcoming 2.6 kernel…
you are just going on about a completely different subject read the damn article and then comment on it not your imaginary laptop and 2.4 kernel distro..
get back on point.. do you happen to work for MSFT ?
Do you happen to work for Redhat?
OMG, I made a controversial post.
OK, your point seems to be that if Linux doesn’t work on a particular piece of hardware, it must be completely worthless.
How do you come up with this stuff? Do you realize how unreasonable that is? I’m sure it sucks to pay $80 bucks for something that doesn’t do what you want it to. But to move from that to “LINUX SUX0RZ!!!” is a bit of a stretch, don’t you think?
Linux works just fine on the Dell laptop I’m typing on. It works just fine on the Sony laptop that’s sitting on a table across the room from me. It works on the desktop machine in my bedroom and the server in my basement. Everything is supported — from firewire to wireless pcmcia to usb to power management. Seems like it isn’t useless, at least in my neighborhood. In fact, it has been _extremely_ useful on this end of things — having access to a wide variety of good applications, including a full-fledged programming environment, at little cost; never having to worry about crashes or virus problems; not shelling out absurd amounts of money or breaking the law in order to get the tools I need. The fact that YOU found it useless amounts to very, very little. The fact that you hate Linux does not mean that Linux is bad. OK?
Linux kernel version 2.6 will be released iun december 2003 according to Torvalds (source: this was recently @ OSnews in an interview with him)
Longhorn will be released… dunno, but not anytime soon, not in this year, neither in 2004. It is easy to assume there’ll be already a new -stable branch in 2004/2005 since then the 2.6 branch will be out there for 1-2 years, which is about the time a new -stable comes out (they wanted to speed this up after 2.4).
So… the comparision is imo too far on the uncertain future. There’s a lot to change during the comming years. Therefore it’s useless.
Deak is probably purposely sounding dumb. He’s satirizing Windows users. Just don’t think to freely or be too satirical on this website.
How many years would it take for your mother to learn to install and config Linux on that laptop of yours ? Really the reason why Microsoft is number one is because it just WORKS ! God you would have to be blind to not see why Windows is and shall be number #1 ! Yes even when you are long gone and just ashes.
It would take a decade for my mother to install linux on my laptop. Simply, because it will not load or install.
Lastly, do a search for linux on laptops and see for yourself. Linux is NOT ready for the laptop, if the software costs money, then it should install and work. If it cannot perform the said function, then it needs some R&D work put into it and called beta…
“Please the single fact that Microsoft controls 99% of the desktop market is evidence enough”
http://www.infidels.org/news/atheism/logic.html#populum
oops, sorry!
Actually, if the software costs money, it should do what it says it does. Which is what compatibility lists are for. Do you mean to tell me that the vendor you bought from told you that the software would install on every last piece of hardware you tried it with? If so, and they did so on the web, please post a link — because I don’t believe it.
The fact that some software does’t run on everything, and that it costs money, means nothing unless the vendor makes inaccurate claims. Yes, everyone knows that Linux doesn’t support everything yet. So what? It supports many machines very well, and there are good resources for finding out if yours is one of them.
Your claim here is _almost_ as absurd as if I went out and spent $200 on a copy of Windows and then started trolling because it wouldn’t install on a Mac. “But…But…I spent money on it, and it won’t install, and it sucks…” Guess what — looks like I should have done just a little bit of research before I went out and bought a product.
One more thing —
OpenBSD costs money. Until version 3.3, it wouldn’t install on my laptop. I don’t run around yelling about how OpenBSD should be sent back to r&d and called a beta release until it runs on every laptop in the world. Why not? Because it is an operating system that runs on a wide variety of machinery, is quite solid, and has technical merits that other operating systems do not. Was I very disappointed by the fact that I couldn’t install it on my machine? Yes. Did I form the opinion that OpenBSD Sux0r? No. Why not? It’s called “the ability to retain objectivity in the face of disappointment and even monetary loss, coupled with the ability to recognize that my own situation isn’t the center of the universe and doesn’t really matter that much in the grand scheme of things.” I suggest you try it some time.
Myth or not, it’s good 2 have a far-fetched goal; that is to beat t he aledged Longhorn. This will put preassure on OSS-developers to create good stuff…or to surrender, but I think they wont.
Good…
As soon as Microsoft adds it’s new cos to their kernel than it will destory Linux 2.6. The cos will enhance the end user experience. It was the best solution that could be supported by their new architecture. You know what I’m talking about right.
I will be publishing my book on the new cos for Microsoft since it is the future.
you realise what article dick sorry i mean deak is going on about ?
http://www.osnews.com/comment.php?news_id=5017
article is http://www.linuxelectrons.com/staticpages/index.php?page=2003110223…
he is basing his whole opinion of linux sucking on this.. what a dick sorry meant deak nah i did mean dick rofl
its not something he has even used im guessing.. oh go back and crawl under your rock..
” LOL
By Anonytroll (IP: —.client.attbi.com) – Posted on 2003-11-04 05:32:11
Oh man, I’m SO FIRED AS A TROLL. ”
lol with anonytroll good point.. guess we should stop feeding the troll now.
Deak R. Said:
“It would take a decade for my mother to install linux on my laptop.”
How many Windows-user install their OS? Very few. Most just use the OS that came with their system. So the point that “My mother could not install Linux! Therefore Linux sucks!” is not valid, because your mother couldn’t install Windows either. Therefore, Windows must suck, right?
FYI: I installed Gentoo Linux on my Compaq Armada 3500. Installation went smoothly and everything worked. Not a single problem. Just because that particular Linux-distro (that you are talking about) wouldn’t install on that particular laptop does not mean that Linux “sucks”. Hell, I bet that Windows XP wouldn’t install on some laptops either, does that mean that Xp sucks? By your logic, it does.
If the intended hardware you wish to purchase isn’t Linux complaint, don’t buy it. Ces’t finis.
There is no point in comparing perceived cows with existing penguins. It’d be more appropriate to dream up comparisons of Longhorn vs Linux 2.7, 2.8, or even 3.0.
Another way to put it: let’s toss in AmigaOS 5.0, MacOS 10.5, and FreeBSD 5.5 into the mix so we can have real valid debates of which is (going to be) best.
Is there a real battle of IT between a forward slash and backward slash ?
I personally think C:WINDOWSMy Documents and Settings Username is not quite simple and logical [a bit] as compared with /home/username in *nix. If a change of MS which can nest user account in more scientific way may be attracted me and *nix fans.
Just a personal idea.
…who knows what Linux will look like by 2006 and Windows Longhorn. So much speculation, how you can even begin to compare these – it would make more sense to compare the new Kernel 2.6 with Windows XP Kernel. Anyway Microsoft is known for making big announcements and promises – like this release i going to revolutionize computers, the world, the whole universe … blah blah blah – we will see when they deliver, and as already said by 2006 who knows what Linux will look like.
apparently the individual bitching about running Linux on a laptop does not do much research or has not been a Linux user for very long, as being just a avarage Linux user for a few years i know damn well that if i wanted Linux on a laptop i surely would research just what laptop accepts Linux best before ploping down over a thousand dollars for a laptop computer…
Deak has been trolling these boards for a couple of weeks now, making unsubstantiated claims and then backing off when asked to give some proof. Notice how he wouldn’t tell you what model of Laptop he tried to install SuSE on? Well, that’s because he didn’t, really. He also claimed that OpenOffice Calc had ruined the data in an Excel spreadsheet of his by “skewing the cell numbers” – a very dubious claim. When I asked for a copy of the spreadsheet (with names and labels removed to protect the innocent) so I could verify what I judged to be a gratuitious accusation, he just changed subject and eventually left that comment thread.
He’s just an anti-Linux troll, probably hired by MS to pollute the Internet board with their propaganda. It’s best just to ignore him.
> apparently the individual bitching about running Linux on a laptop does not do much research or has not been a Linux user for very long, as being just a avarage Linux user for a few years i know damn well that if i wanted Linux on a laptop i surely would research just what laptop accepts Linux best before ploping down over a thousand dollars for a laptop computer…
Or how about getting the BEST laptop (in your price range) and already know Windows XP will run on it.
Picking and choosing hardware based on your OS doesn’t allow the user to take advantage of the best hardware. This is NOT a good thing.
First off… I agree that Linux has many problems with laptops.
> what laptop do you have Deak R. because some laptops work without any problems others do have problems.. the different vendors have a hardware list of what laptops work / dont work.. also as to the fact of having to pay 80 buck no you bloody well dont have to you can download most of them if not all of them.. even suse you can install via http://ftp...
I have a Compaq n800c. Reletively new laptop (p4-M 2.0Ghz, Radeon 7500, etc) Great laptop. No Linux distro works out the box since the power managerment does not work. I needed to hack the dsdt table to get it function. Not a acceptable solution.
> basically you are picking on something that you know might not have great support.. as it goes ive got a compaq armada laptop and linux works perfectly on it i have debian running on it and it works a treat.. so what you are saying to me sounds like bull..
I assure you that this is a common problem with newer laptops that use ACPI and not APM.
> its like calling tech support and saying my net connection doesnt work and only providing that much detail for all they know you might not even have your computer on for your net connection to work.
I have now told you the problem. I know it does not work in any 2.4.x kernel. Don’t know about 2.6.x yet.
Basically you can get Linux kernel 2.6testing series today, put it in production or a test lab and beat the crap out of it. If it doesn’t work completely you can roll back easily to the previous kernel by changing entries in LILO or GRUB. I have only seen a few screen shots of Longhorn and I can’t get it easily.
ACPI has been fixed in 2.6 : it should now work in most situations. IIRC, this is also the case in the latest patched versions of 2.4.X – though I’m not 100% sure about that, so YMMV.
well psycosis the newer 2.6 should have better support as it supports acpi much better if you read the changelogs for the 2.6 kernel you should see if it will now be supported alternately download the kernel and do a make xconfig and see the options listed does any of them seem to be the cure for your problem ?
i know this much the first few tests put me in a world of shit due to acpi.. and now the acpi stuff mostly works so you should give the 2.6.x kernel a test run.
if you havent already..
also back to deak the guy doesnt even read the article, where he was basing his assumptions on. The dell laptop mentioned took and installed suse 9 with no problems the only problem had been that the guy had stuck in the cd and walked off and come back to see it launch fedora.. reason being is like a windows cd if after 10 or 20 seconds you dont tell it to boot one of the options for the cd install it decides to boot the hdd.. so go figure.. not a problem at all.. deak was just a troll as Great Cthulhu mentioned and i fed him for to long.
m$ is far too slow to keep up with moore’s law
The real question should be, what will Longhorn (aka known as cowpies around here) face when it comes out in 3-4 years from now? The Open Source community will have 3-4 years of further development time. What will Linux, FreeBSD et al by like by then?
Does this also mean we will have to suffer with XP for 3-4 more years? Or keep using Windows 2000??
“OpenBSD costs money.”
BS. It is freely available in various ways:
http://www.openbsd.org
Yes, OpenBSD is available in a slightly less convenient format (and with no extras) for no money. That’s kind of irrelevant to the analogy, which is: He bought software, it didn’t work on his hardware, he’s bitching. I bought software, it didn’t work on my hardware, I’m not. Neither product should be renamed as beta versions because they don’t run on everything under the sun.
Point?
..if OpenBSD claims the hardware is supported while it didn’t work. And then i only take people serious who have spoken up to OpenBSD developers about the issue.
Parasites who just buy, and then whine when ”X” isn’t working but haven’t investigated anything nor contributed aren’t worth a dime imnsho.
I agree completely. But when Deak tried to install Suse on his laptop, I doubt very highly that he checked any kind of compatibility list first, or asked Suse if their software would install on his particular machine. He’s using that as an excuse to trash Linux. My point about OpenBSD was by way of analogy. Just because it didn’t install on my laptop doesn’t mean I hate it or go around saying it’s horrible software. I know better. So should he.
Hey Con-
Just wanted to let you know I have the same mobo and (and i do use the wierd scsi controller:-) )
I had the same problem, but I was ableto rectify rather simply through trial and error. I had been using a USB keyboard for which their wasn’t a driver at the time during the install. I plugged a standard PS/2 keyboard in and had no problems after that. The problem I had was stopping and controlling the boot procedure, which allowed me to install the SusE 8.1 over my existing RedHat 7.2 and Win98 partitions. I must have watched those damn little green bars go up the side of the screen fifty times before I figured it out. After the install, btw, I was able to use the wireless USB keyboard and mouse without incident.
Hope that helps. Also, I contacted SUSE during the install, and they responded tome thenext day saying to dothe very thing I had tried on my own. They were actually quite professional about it. It would seem they get maligned a bit, but I have had no problems with SuSE support over the short time I have been using their distro. You might want togive it another go…been MS free for over a year and a half on myhome box now and am loving it
mfb