While most Macintosh sites have welcomed the new flat panel iMac, some Mac-only journalists, most analysts and other serious publications were not so impressed and some were actually seemed worried about Apple’s future. The main theme of their reviews is that Apple this time has done more damage than good with the extreme hype they spread, that iMac is not exactly what someone would call ‘revolutionary’, that pricing is not acceptable for the price cautious PC users especially when there is some resession in the global economy and that the Apple market share has shrank (and continues shrinking dangerously) to 2.9% of the desktop market since last year where it had 3.3%. Read the articles at BusinessWeek, ZDNet, C|NET, The New York Times, San Francisco Chronicle, Boston Globe, Los Angeles Times, San Jose Mercury News and Business 2.0. A good part of the Mac community was shocked because of no announcements whatsoever about the PowerMac line of computers and the corporate Apple market, but hope is still strong that new, G5 computers will be announced in spring. Update: Add ArsTechnica and I,Cringely to the opinion soup critisizing the “Jobs Distortion Field”.
Press Responds With Mixed Reactions to Flat-Panel iMac
About The Author
Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
Follow me on Twitter @EugeniaLoli
apple back in the day has always had style, i’ve been a mac user for 16 years, i was born in 82(do the math) my mom was a teacher so she had a mac plus, great machine, still have it kicking around somewhere and still works.
this new imac, apple new that it would be making a chance at bringing it out, i could detect it when steve was warming up to it in his keynote. my opinion on it is that the style does not matter, yes apple does try to impress us with their style so we expect that from them. as of right now, i’m sitting in collage, looking at an sgi(its not even a real sgi) with a p3 and winblows 2000, i would rather look at that new imac even for one second than look at this bloody thing for as long as it has to be.
getting down to the point, i like the new imac, for what it has inside, you are still getting more for your money, macs last a long time, on the outside, all that matters is easy access to the drive, to be able to turn it on easly and see the picture on the monitor clearly(bonus, it moves around) and of course easy access to the ports in the back as well as upgrading ram/airport. who should care what it looks like, they’ve just brounght the power and performance of the g4 tower down to a good price for what the costomer (the average user) can afford and that it’s not just for the high end graphic/audio/movie editors
“Not to mention a linux based OS.”
Actually, it’s Unix under the hood.
yeah
As my girlfriend often complains 15″ is not big enough. Why isn’t apple putting a bigger screen on the new iMac? Would it fall over? Would it really make it any more expencive? The major drawback of the old iMac was the sub-standard screen they had in them. Why repeat the same problem?
<<Why isn’t apple putting a bigger screen on the new iMac?>>
A 15″ LCD display is equivalent and better than a 17″ CRT. It’s brighter, crisper, and all that good stuff. I too had my doubts before actually seeing one in person and when I did, I didn’t even notice that it’s only a 15″ display because it’s so easy on the eyes. Additionally, a 15″ LCD (or 17″ CRT) display is more than enough for what the general consumer intends to use it for. If you need more real estate than that, then you’re probably outside the iMac’s target area and you’d be better off with a G4 workstation and a 17″ Studio Display. Would it hurt to throw in a 17″ display instead? Of course not, but it would push the price even higher which would piss a lot of people off in addition to the ones who are already bitching about the price tag as it is. The first new iBook came out with only a 12″ display and a year later Apple introduced a high-end model with a 14″ display so I really wouldn’t be surprise if a year from now Apple introduces a high-end iMac with a 17″ display.
Originally posted by The_Hitman:
After first seeing Microsoft’s slogan for its upcoming Windows XP operating system, “it just works,” I couldn’t help wondering: what were the slogans for all the previous releases? After thinking about it for a while, they became obvious.
Windows 1.0: Good joke, eh?
Windows 2.0: Still funny, isn’t it?
Windows 286: Yeah, we’re still kidding.
Windows 386: Going boldly where Desqview has been for years.
Windows 3.0: It’s finally worth buying!
Windows 3.1: It’s finally worth using!
Windows 95: Going boldly where the Mac has been for years.
Windows 98: More usable! Less stable!
Windows 98SE: More stable! Less usable!
Windows ME: Less usable AND less stable!
NT 1.0: Give me more hardware! NOW!!!
NT 2.0: Dammit, I said MORE HARDWARE!!! NOW!!!!
NT 3.0: Which part of “more hardware” do you not understand?
NT 3.5: With enough hardware, I’d work. Honest.
NT 4.0: Does less than Win98 with twice the hardware at one-half the speed.
Windows 2K: Works almost as well as Windows 98! Honest!
Windows XP: It just works.
Here is my animated commentary on the new design…
(1.8 megs Quicktime)
<href= http://www.mab3d.com/images/quicktimepop02.html> http://www.mab3d.com/images/quicktimepop02.html
I actually thought this up before reading the Time cover story…
-Mark
LOL That’s cute!
It’s strange to see everything old is new again. The new imac is just a remake of the NeXT series of computers that were released in the early 90s, which incendently steven jobs headed up. At least when they become obselete they can be used as a desk lamp.
This must be the first realfuturistic computer that has been put on the market. I hope that Apple does well with the new iMac with its great bells and whistles but unfortunately they still have to bring the price down sufficiently so that people who are buying a computer for the first time who don’t know much about computers will be swayed by a Mac and will buy it because it doesn’t cost alot more, this is the only real way Apple will get more share of the market. We know they make the best machine but people are geared by price more than anything else.
I like the way Apple is, trying to advance the shape of Computers, but with the failure of the CUBE, which I can see is, only because of the lack of ports to get Sound and Video both in and out. I thought that I had read some where that Apple intended for the CUBE to be more of an appliance or stereo component. So why did they make it so difficult to hook-it up as such, with out having to go out and buy more USB hub’s, so you can hook up the needed extra’s. I say they should revamp it and bring it back as the I.C.E. CUBE (Internet,Computer,Entertainment). Just put a small touch screen on one side or give it a remote control like some PC’s and give us an better way to hook-it up, say with some RCA jacks for Both Video and Sound. This way some one could bring it home hook it up to their T.V. & stereo and still cruze the net, but on their T.V.. and as for the new so called iMac, well I’ve got an iMac and it don’t look like this. When I ask someone what an iMac looks like they can tell me, but now with this new creation, it’s just not an iMac. Don’t get me wrong I like it but it’s just not an iMac. Thank You for reading my rambling’s.
I have been an Apple user for 17 years, so it pains me to say this but I don’t think Apple’s market share will ever get higher than 5%. Steve Jobs keeps on announcing “revolutionary” applications that have come out for the Mac like iTunes. What is so revolutionary about that, I had better looking, less cumbersome programs that do exactly the same thing years before iTunes came out. So did PC users.
Additionally, Apple is really falling behind in the MHz race. I know a new G4 is blazingly fast and can compete with a P4, but your average computer user doesn’t. When they see a 2Ghz P4 and compare it to an 800Mhz Mac, they’re going to laugh. Apple has to come out with the G5 chips soon, or they’re really going to lose out.
Also, now matter how much nicer the computers look and feel, I still don’t think a top end Mac is worth $2000 more than a top end PC. That’s alot of money for a computer that can’t even use half of the software , not to mention games out in the market (I’ve been dying to play Counter Strike on my Mac for years).
Apple survives mostly thanks to die-hard users still under Job’s mesmerizing aura. Me, I feel jaded.
My first Mac was an Apple IIc with green CRT, second, LCII with a 14″ monitor, third, Quadra 840, fourth, Newton 110, fifth, Wallstreet PB, sixth, Bondi Blue, seventh, G4 iMac, call me a “lifer”.
Why did I order mine the day it was announced… the keyboard is gaudy, the dome looks like it came out of Dr. Seuss’ “Old Hat, New Hat”, the silver neck is a bit 70’s, the 100 mhz bus is a buzz kill, the missing level 3 cache, bummer…
But it’s THE computer I have been wanting since 93; it’s a quality inexpensive Apple Computer product that runs MacOSX on a 700 mhz G4 Velocity chip with a DVD-R, more than enough power and software for it to be my digital hub for the next three years!
I own an iMac G3 600 and it runs OSX beautifully. It is my first Mac after years of Windows and recently Linux.
I don’t think Apples prices are that bad for what you are getting.
You talk about PC’s below $1K U.S. dollars and you are looking at hardware that is nowhere near the quality of Apple.
Problems that I had with Windows don’t exist anymore.
The learing curve was virtually non-existant. I have been able to replace any application I had with Windows with one for X and more and more programs are becoming available day by day.
I think the new iMac is great. I would like to see the crt’s eventually get a g4. I read people complaining about the g3 and wonder if they ever used a g3 computer. I owned a 1ghz Athlon before this iMac running Win2k and I can honestly say I haven’t missed a thing as far as performance.
I think Apple is going to continue to grow as time goes on. People like myself will eventually dispell the myths, get informed and make the switch.
this is what i’ve been waiting for .. macs have always had a great OS, but, the hardware was always overpriced, who wants a g3 imac w/ a pitiful little 15″ screen .. and a g4 tower was only a few grand more, forget it .. but w/ all the bundled software & such a nice tiny elegant package, i’ll be setting asside some money to get one myself .. it probably won’t happen until they produce the second revision of it w/ a 800mhz or faster chip coupled w/ the cd-rw/dvd (not the dvd-r). what windows software do i really need to hold onto that the new macs don’t provide a more polished version of for free ? and what programs i do need can be run plenty quick inside virtualpc w/ the speed enhancements of the g4 chip =)
i’m sold, thanks steve, this makes computers cool again.
and i’m sure yellowdog linux runs damn fine on it as well =)
I’ve using macs since 87. My first mac was a Classic II, runnig MacDraw, Excel, Claris FileMaker, Microsoft Word 5.1 and even Page Maker 3.x. Whith a Stylewriter printer I did lots of work to school (University) and my town’s Sport Club. The other guys used Windows 3.1 and dotmatrix printer. Apple always represented to me quality work, better grafics, amazing posters. Now i’m using a PowerMac G4 an a i(ce)Book. Maybe in a year I’ll buy a new iMac for my brother.
Apple has’nt a BIG market share, but wo cares… they make great tools, the best for the job.
The complayn about the lack of software is very, very stupid. All my friend tha have Wintell’s do the same works that I do, but with worst programs. They use corel, I use Photoshop and illustrator. They use frontpage, I use Golive and dreamweaver (and BBEdit). They use Microsoft Office, me to. They use Acess, I use Filemaker. They use Pagemaker, I use InDesign. And I use iMovie, iTunes and iPhoto (They haven’t sucha a programs. What moore do you want??? Audio? Well I dont use professional audio, but also none of my friend use professional audio im Windows.
In reality people use a computer to write text, manage data, comunicate with other peopple and work with immages. Both platforms do it, macs do it from the box, wimdows need always something moore and with less quality.
Apple stocks up today PC stocks down……
Sure Phil Collins sells records but as Jonny Rotten says, “Phil Coolins is a jack of all trades and a master of none”
If evryone of us can convert one nimrod pc fool to a mac user we will prevail
We will all always have to live with horrid Phil Collins music on the radio and PCs at work but we can tune out the evil doers on our Ipods
>>”Hell, I’ve been using Windows for about 7-8 years and my Win2k box is stable, FAST, and secure because I know how to make it that way. In order for Apple to convince me to sell my PC & run out and buy a Mac, they’re going to have to make Macs do something that my current setup absolutely can’t do AND it has to be something that I actually want.”<<
——–Crash more than five times a day?
>>>”In other words, the killer app that I absolutely can’t do without.”<<<
——–Solitaire?
Hey Phil Collins is a KICK ASS DRUMMER!!!!
I’m not sure what all the fuss is about? The new iMac’s space age design and fast processor sounds excellent. I’ve heard nothing but positive comments about it from both my mac and pc friends. Hell… I can’t wait to see what’s next from the Apple people. But I have to raise a realistic question here. When are we going to get over all this hoopla about design. When are we going to look at what it really is… an amazing power tool with a cool exterior. I know all you handymen out there would pay more for a fancier power drill in the hardware store, why wouldn’t you do the same for a cooler than thou computer? It’s sure not coming from the pc markers. Keep it up Mr. Jobs, I’ll stick with my fancy power drill and good design!
I Grew up on mac, Remember the Apple 2 G? I ever scence the G3 came out, I Bought A 400 MHZ G3 Blue and White, Then I bought a Dual G4 800MHZ, X-mas I got A IPOD, And Now Getting the NEW IMAC with Superdrive, DUDES, I’m In the music buiseness and all these things chained up in 1 RACK, With Pro tools, MOTU 2408mk2 Mackie 24 channel MIXER, The ULTIMATE SYSTEM, I DO GRAFIX too, and there you have it Real People making money with there macs…..http://www.stvparty.org
For those who say the new iMac looks like a desk lamp:
Think on this: Why is a desk lamp designed the way it is? To conserve desk space and allow greater area to work on the desk while providing great functionality. The desk lamp is a marvel of engineering intelligence. When I sit at my desk and turn on my desk lamp, I rarely think about it, but it is there and it works well and I don’t think my work environment would be quite as friendly without it.
In an old episode of MASH, Hawkeye waxes poetic on the wonders of the thumb. Consider the desk lamp in the same light;). And consider the new iMac in that light. It is a marvelous innovation…
Anyone who feels that the PC has the capability of any Mac, should try using Quark X-Press or even Photoshop. Although the PC is getting more powerful, it still can’t begin to compare with the graphic and multimedia capabilities of the Mac.
As for Mac OSX barely running on the older iMac, I’ve sucessfully managed to run it on a Performa 6115. (Roughly the equivilant of running Windows XP on a x486.)
Now the big one… pricing. In a nutshell, you get what you pay for. The iMac is the most visually beautiful computer on the market, and contains the power of a much higher end PC. The ease of use is another benefit of the new iMac, and makes for easy setup for the new user.
Anyone complaining about the price should breifly look at their lifestyle. Do you shop for store-brand items because they’re cheap? Do you drive a no-frills car? Do you go out to nice restuarants occasionally?
Let’s be real.
From a PC user considering the next ibook release…
THREAT 1: When I consider buying all the software I would want for a Mac system, I cringe. Meanwhile, I know people — or people who know people — who can get me any windows app I want for free. Consider that for a moment. I can get virtually any app I want for free just by asking around. This isn’t speculation, this is a fact. These days, a contact into the IT world puts you on software easy street — and that’s true for the foreseeable future.
As it happens, I’m too honest for my own good. I don’t go hunting for free stuff the way most of my friends do. But I am rare — some would stay stupid. Either way, Windows users are not only getting cheaper hardware, the software barrier is practically impossible for Apple to break. And let’s not forget that every Mac user who pirates software is backstabbing the rest by discouraging development.
SOLUTION: The only useful measure is to STOP ENGAGING IN ANTI-APPLE SOFTWARE PIRACY. There is little MAC users can do, but this is something.
THREAT 2: And more obvious. As a potential convert, I don’t want to feel like a loser because I believed in a beautiful dream. The entire PC world is jaded, and keeping faith in “HUMANITY WITHIN TECHNOLOGY” is increasingly difficult to do. There are too many charred remains by the Technology roadside. And as I read all the Mac forums on the Web I have to say that Apple USERS have stopped beating the drum.
Unlike PC vendors, Apple needs to back up the dream with the technology instead of the reverse. And it needs you to help sell THE DREAM. No ipod, killer app, or technological innovation is going to increase Apple’s competitiveness very much. What will convert general PC users is the appeal to (A) creative personalities (B) people looking to distinguish themselves from the pack(C) people who have an overarching appreciation for beauty and simplicity (D) other people fed up with the status quo. People more personally aware of HUMANITY WITHIN TECHNOLOGY. Spouting specs, dimensions, and general technobabble may justify some people’s Applehood — good for them. But most of you doing so don’t realize how droll this sounds to those PC users most susceptible to conversion. I think YOU could bring about Apple’s demise if you continue to come off as the fearful, sour lot I find throughout my informal internet research.
SOLUTION: In short, take a cue from the Trekkies and Rocky Horror fanatics. This is your template. Your great-grandchildren may never touch a Mac — but my bet is that more than 5% will know what a Klingon is. Here’s your refrain: “You’d have to own one to understand.”
Stop getting drawn into battles of specs with half wits who don’t get the Mac mystique. Calmly tout the victories of your perceived freedom. Just say “Hey, I’m glad you’re satisfied with your machine, I LOVE mine.” Rave about the simplicity of your user experience and stop feeling like you have to defend the technology tit-for-tat. Cookie cutter technology is all the PC has to offer — and it may one day die to a generic Swiss Army Sony appliance.
You are Apple’s strongest marketing tool and its designers’ greatest source of inspiration. Bitch responsibly at Apple. But take a vow to stop giving me, a potential convert, more reason to view an Apple computer as just another instantly obsolete plastic box.
I’ve noticed through many of the reviews that decided not to like the new iMac design that their criticisms had less to do with the machines than with Steve Jobs personality. I find it very interesting because, being in the film industry and interested in how products are viewed by critics their, I find that personality has more to do with some bad reviews than the movies themselves.
Consider any Steven Speilberg movie. Read a review and you will find that nearly half the review has to do with Spielberg himself, not the movie. AI was a very good movie, not great by many standards, but it didn’t warrant the torrent of venom from some prominient reviewers.
The same goes for Steve Jobs and Apple. The CNET reveiw of the new iMac referenced above is more a critique of Jobs and less about the iMac. In fact, he says some fairly nice things about the iMac; he crucifies Jobs. I have to chalk this up to USA Syndrome – which is why every smaller nation with a chip on its shoulder takes a swipe at us. It has less to do with what we stand for than the fact that we are standing to begin with.
The same with Apple. The fact that it still exists is a thorn in these reviewers’ collective paw. They have to gripe about something and Jobs Reality Distortion Field (damn! I promised myself I wouldn’t use that term…) is as good as anyhting. Because it isn’t real. Apple makes great products. It’s that simple.
Let me start by saying that I love the new imac. I, haven’t yet gotten my fingers on one, but the idea of the thing is, well, sexy.
Right away, it’s not a box that sits there. It moves and adapts. It’s groovy!
My first Mac was an SE20. People came up to see it. At the time it was an incredible machine. This new imac with all the modern design and, get this, a drive that reads and writes on to cd’s and dvd’s. Heaven, right?
It’s the incredible machine of these times.
There are two kinds of people creative and re-creative. Most of us are built with a bit of both. For the bit that wants to bring something new to our world and thrash about in the dark making light for the rest of the world,
Macintosh, under Steve Jobs is it. Any questions?
If you don’t like it, son’t buy it but stop whining about it. No one is holding a gun to your head to force you to buy it.
look..it’s simple. I’ve been using computers since I was 6 and am now 27. Do the matha and you’ll see that I’ve been using them since before most people knew computers existed. I know the fun of UNIX, and Dos, Windows & Mac OS (and Fortran, Modula, OS/2 for that matter). The simple facts are as follows: 1) Windows machines are prominent around the world. Not for their price or for being better, but because they market their stuff better. 2) I’ve used several diferent computer systems and have come to the following conclusion; Macs are easier to use, crash less often, and are faster even though the general public does not truly understand that CISC based architecture simply cannot be compared to RISC based architecture. The two are completely oppisite. If you were to attempt to make the comparisons, you’d find that a PC of 1.2 GH is roughly equivilant to a Mac of 500mhz. Simple as that. 3)Am I a nutcase whos completely dedicated to the Mac? Not hardly. Im the kind of nutcase who understands computers all the way from their insides down to their IC Chips, and all the way out to their operating systems and software….and to all those who complain that I’m just a Mac Evanglist…I actually think that an SGI is a better machine than either platform…so there.
See…..told you it was simple.
>While it’s an undeniable fact that you can purchase a Windows based PC with similar specifications to the new iMac for considerably less money, that is not the market that Apple plays in.<
Nope. Go to Dell and Gateway right now. Similar systems are about $200-300 higher for the closest config.
But:
>Finally, no one is stealing from your wallet when you buy a Mac. It’s about making a choice. It’s your choice, make it. <
A beautiful quote!
I can’t believe Apple, the real innovators in the marketplace, would come out with a flat panel computer THAT DOES NOT PIVOT ie. flip from the archaic landscape orientation to portrait , OR, horizontal to vertical.
To be able to see A WHOLE BLINKIN’ page without scrolling is a joy. (I have software on my mac powerbook -believe it or not – that lets me do this) Our whole reading life is based on THE PAGE, which is vertically oriented NOT horizontal like the typical monitor/TV.
It would have been so easy for them to do this. The software is already available, the hardware would be nothing. Wake up APPLE. Ughhhh!
The problem with macs, is that they have never really been aimed toward the ‘average’ user, though with the only operating system worth even picking up a mouse for, this is a shame.
The new iMac, seems to be causing the most confusion, simply over it’s name. Just because it shares the same name as it’s original, does not mean it will or should share the same price. However, what I believe apple is doing is creating the most original and mould breaking designs, as cheeply as possible. Leaving the production of cheap low end home pc’s, to the companies who care little about aesthetic, and more about practicality.
The people who the iMac is aimed at, will not think twice about the price ( I am talking about creative agencies and such like, who wish to make their offices ‘cool’, as they do not think about the High price tag’s of G4’s, as they are essetial to their business (don’t even think about using a PC if you are a serious creative these days)
The new iMac, is without a doubt one of the most important pieces of hardware design since computers become smaller than entire rooms, and for that reason, and for the way it breaks all of the rules, is one of the most important pieces of ‘design’ (in any media) within the last 50 years.
…….distortion field?!?!? Funny stuff…….I like reality, but fiction is fun also.
<<The new imac, like the Cube, appeals to the style of the dedicated Mac user. One problem existes, I and other dedicated users will NEVER buy a computer without pleanty of room to upgrade.>>
The most upgrading that I ever do to my Mac is install more ram or a larger hard drive. Several years ago I upgraded the processor in my powerbooks. With the USB and Firewire ports what else would you need for expanding a Mac? I have scanners, printers, Airports, 100baseT ethernet, modems. What do PC users think they need to expandability for? Do they install new upgrades every week?
I think the new G4 iMac is responsive to a market niche that Apple has been missing — users who aren’t at all power users but command enough budget and business that they need some speed and memory and are willing to pay for slightly high-end toys like the Super Drive and an iPod. As a humanities professor at an engineering school 15 years ago all my students laughingly assured me that a Mac was what a techno-phobe like me needed; I went through three Macs and loved them all, and then finally was persuaded two years ago to make the leap to a Dell Dimension 4100 running Windows 98 SE. All the wintel enthusiasts who had been urging me to join the rest of the world of course conveniently omitted to point out how Windows 98 SE was incredibly unstable and most Microsoft programs and applications were truly just plain crap — I am now a proficient Windows user and work cross-platform, even playing around with Linux on a partition of the Dell hardrive. But when I was about to order a bigger and more loaded Dimension 8100, the new G4 iMac was unveiled, and after reading the specs, I’ve already ordered one and cannot wait. Somehow returning to the Mac OS (even if it’s OS X which will be new for me) seems absolutely like coming home. I love Mac products and their quality, even if Apple has sometimes seemed so mis-managed as to be self-destructive.
I use both platforms on a daily basis.
I dont think anyone really gets the point of what Apple is all about. so let compare computers to cars…
a PC is like a Chevy or a Ford. basic stable cheap -it runs and wil get you to the supermarket. but will not last (ie a PC user has to get a hole new machine to stay relatively current affer about 2-3 years after purchasing his a PC) and is not the most stylish or fastest modes of transportation.
A MAC is like a Rollsroyce, Porche or Mercedes. yes they are more expensive. but they will run faster, (to those that are still stuck in the MHZ thinking -an 800mhz G4 will run at least twice the speed as an 800mhz Intel or AMD processor -the real measure now is in flops -biulions of calculations per second -just trust me they are faster) easier to handle, stylish, safer (how many MAC viruses can you name in the next two mins. -I thought so) and last longer (most MAC users trade in their boxes about every 4-6 years) basically, they’re cool.
So when Rolls or Porche offers a less expensive car -though still the same price as a high end GM. It will still sell -because it is still a Porche or a Rolls -and it still has the status and craftmanship that their big brothers have.
Thats how it is with PC systems and MAC systems. though most oly have the cash on hand to get a PC or a Chevy. if they could they would buy a MAC or a Porche. Sure Mac represents less the 5% of the computer market -but so do Euro luxury cars.
And just when you local auto mechanic cringes a the thought of working on a Porche (because he is unfamiliar -and dare I say -affraid )
so will your local A+ certfied PC geek react to a MAC. (they are mostly unfamiliar -and afraid – that they may not seem like the cyber gods that they want you to think -thus when they say “dont get a MAC -they are to expensive and suck!” what they are really saying is “oh god I’ve never worked with a MAC! I have no idea with how to help you with one or work with one -please dont let anyone know. I have a reputation as a computer geek to maintain.) the sad part is that it would take far less effort for them to figure out a MAC then the 3 grand they blew on the MCSE classes they took. Hmm just like many auto mechanics when faced with a car built in europe.
if Apple is guilty of anything it is their marketing strategy. they should go and making and selling the same impressive products at the same quality and prices they always have. But they should should put an emphasis on the high status of owning a MAC is be it an iMac or a fully tricked out G4 tower. (As someone said in this forum our two most recent Presidents where MAC users.)
Just as there will always be room for both Chevys and Porches. there will always be a place for both PCs and MACs. May the computer Gods bless both Bill Gates and Steve Jobs (and Woz) for they gave us the choices that we have today.
I hear a lot about PC’s being cheaper than Mac’s. In many ways, that’s true. However, that doesn’t fit with the new iMac (at least the higher end version). I have yet to see a non-Celeron PC with a high-resolution flat-panel LCD and a DVD-R/CD-RW drive selling for as low as $1800.
By the way, my typing skills may not be the greatest, and I may not know the English language all that great, but PLEASE!!!!!! The gramatical errors in these postings almost make me barf.
after reading through some of these posts, I thought I’d add my “objective” opinion.
we can look at computers as part hardware and then the OS that takes advantage of the hardware and, well, brings it to life.
I feel that hardware wise, apple is on the mark. The g4 is a wonderful CPU, the newer Apple computers as a whole are great hardware. What bugs me, is the OS itself. im currently still on 9.2, because what I use my computer for (music production) OSX is not a choice… yet.
The truth be told is that the audio and MIDI integration with OSX is well beyond that of what a PC can do… I mean were talking another universe. OSX is immature, like a new born. Developers are currently writing new software (while we sit here and bitch away) that is going to take advantage of the GROUNDBREAKING audio and midi features of the OS. For those of you who are into music production, the term latency pretty much sums up the most important feature of an audio workstation. Audio calculations in OSX take place at the system layer (ie. no need for other layers such as ASIO, DirectX, etc.). Latency for audio , softsynths, software samplers etc. will be less than 1 millisecond. This is better than their hardware counterparts. something a super high end setup running under a Windows OS can not touch. But we must wait, which is often the hardest part. Propellerheads, the makers of Reason, have announced the release of Reason for OSX and yes, they had it running on a 400mhz TiBook at WinterNamm, and yes, the latency was well below 1 millisecond. Logic audio is slated to release Logic5 any week now which is built from the ground up for OSX. This release will also change the way we look at using OSX on a Mac.
granted OSX is far from perfect itself, but look at win95 when it was released. It took a good year or two before the software was there, and the OS was even useable. It’s only speculation, but in future releases of OSX It’s possible that it can be scaled to your hardware setup (the ability to turn aqua off, tweak the interface so that it is not such a hog). If you look at most video games, they give you the option to modify setting for proformance (alpha blending, bitdepth, shadows, transparency, the list goes on) to say that future releases of OSX will not offer something similar is hard to believe. its true, if your running OSX right now your a fuzzy little guini pig. And the more you squeak away, the better the product will become.
My whole life I have been a PC user, I still own a PC desktop (1 ghtz P4). but the computer that gets the most action is the one I am typing this comment on , my kick ass TiBook.
It’s interesting when people talk about Apple’s marketshare that they don’t mention the marketshare of any of their competitors, they just imply that Microsoft owns the rest of the nut. The reality is that almost half of the Windows machines that are purchased today are no-name, screwdriver shop beige boxes, assembled in small shops or at home by the user themselves. Apple can never, ever take part of that market, and neither can IBM, HP, Compaq, or even Dell. People buy there because they want to build their own, or they want the cheapest, cheapest way to run the copy of Microsoft Office that they brought home from work. That market is irrelevant to the discussion of “major brand name PC vendors”. If you are happy with one of those systems, you think Dell is an overpriced luxury item that’s not worth paying for.
Apple’s 5% of the market has higher profit margins and a much, much more loyal userbase than HP’s 7.5%. Apple’s products are much more distinctive than Compaq’s, and Apple’s brand is about 1000 times more valuable (witness the way that Compaq’s brand is about to disappear into HP). Traditionally, Apple’s machines have cost more, but that is not the case today, with the iBook and iMac now cheaper than equivalent systems from Gateway and Dell (without even considering the software or the fit and finish … don’t forget to upgrade to Windows XP Pro as well to be fair to Mac OS X).
Also, the Internet boom is over, and people who are on their second or third computer now are starting to understand Total Cost of Ownership. They’re starting to understand that if it takes them a week to migrate their data and reinstall all their applications onto a new Windows PC and only a few hours to just copy all the stuff between two Macs, that is a cost savings in favor of Apple, even if the purchase price was initially the same. When you’ve monkeyed around with serial cables and weird utilities to transfer that data, and then you see a Mac boot into Target Disk Mode (basically acting as a FireWire drive that can be attached to any other FireWire capable computer), you have to scratch the surface of that and see what else is under there (the built-in graphical boot loader in Open Firmware that enables you to easily boot off any attached storage is another example of a hidden benfit of the Mac). There is an old commercial for a furniture store that prided itself on only selling quality goods, and their slogan was, “the educated consumer is our best customer.” Apple could start to use that slogan now. People who really take the time to spend an hour or so at an Apple Store grilling a Mac Genius will discover all kinds of reasons why their computing lives will be simplified with a Mac, and apparently people are doing this, since 40% of the systems sold at Apple retail were the first Mac for those customers. Good for them for doing some research and educating themselves.
The only comparison between Apple and Microsoft that is relevant is a) which OS is better (stability, ease of use, standards support, new technologies, future-proof, easy to develop for), and b) are there enough users and developers to support a thriving third-party software market? For a, Mac OS X just plain rocks. It’s like you had a dream of what a computer OS should do, and it does it, and it is only just getting started. For b, Apple’s developer program has tripled in size in the past year, and porting software to Mac OS X is just plain easy in most cases. Installing and administering software is easier in Mac OS X than in Windows, as well (far, far easier). Even without all that, even in the past, it was hard to find a mainstream app that didn’t have a Mac version, except in the server or database kinds of fields, and we have inherited all the goodness that comes with UNIX compatibility in those fields, now, too. There is just tons of high-quality software, and more is on the way. It’s a great time to be a Mac user, and an even better time to become a Mac user.
MacOSX is still in it’s infancy. For those of you who aren’t programmers and don’t understand the potential of the OS, then just wait. Do people think that MS is so powerful that they can come crashing to thier knees?
I agree that the new iMac is not that cool. I might even say that the screen is the best part. The base is kind of ugly. And color is important. At least to me. I take ether blue or red. Not bage, and black only in cars. And I would never be seen with flowers, but it was a good idea. Think about it girls and other who like the feel of spring. Anyway a G4 iMac like the one I own wouldn’t be the difficult to make. Would it?
Anyway thats not why I have a comment. I love Mac’s not because of the color, or style. Those things to me are a bonus. I love Mac’s because they are easy to learn and use. They are faster. Don’t believe me, find a PC that is faster and see how it runs. My Mac is only 450mhz , and my sister’s PC is 1.1ghz . I have to wait for actions to take place. I open AOL it take’s alot longer than I would expect.
Anyway agian OSX is the best operating system I have ever seen. Granted I havn’t seen them all. It has never crashed on me, and that alone is enough. Anyone who says it suck’s is on drugs. It is the future. Apple will never go out of buisness. Because they are creative. People love color and something different. PC makers can mass produce there bage desktops with windows ? forever. But the minute someone makes something different the world will bye it. Go to the store and look at the products that now come in different colors. I know a few Microwaves, the George Forman Grill. Anyway its not always the right thought but Think Different. Trail and error. Dennis
I am a life long user of macintosh. My school used macs, my dad’s printing business used macs, our family used macs….you get the picture. I cannot imagine using windows. Most of my friends use windows, and they get all jealous when I pull out my new iBook. All my software works, it looks cool, it is light….nothing compares to it.
> Burning DVDs is a feature that flies 6 feet over my head
I think Apple stresses the DVD-video aspects of the SuperDrive a little much, obviously because they are the only ones who ship a system with usable software for “anyone” to actually utilize the SuperDrive and make a DVD video disc without trial and error and reading manuals.
I have burned a couple of DVD video discs, but my main use of the SuperDrive is that you can take a $6 blank DVD-R disc, put it into your SuperDrive, and an icon appears on your desktop, ready to create a data DVD, just like making a data CD. You can drop 4.5GB of data on that puppy, and then when you eject it, it just burns in the background for about 20 minutes before it spits out. It’s incredibly easy, and for 99% of users, they could back up their whole home folder this way, never mind messing with Retrospect and tape drives or whatever. Now that I have this capability, I seriously wonder how I got along without it. I use CD-R’s when I only need to make a very small disc, but most of the time I am looking at a folder of about 2-3GB that I want to archive as-is. You don’t have to compress it or mess with it. Later, you just pop in the DVD disc and there is your work, just like it was when you burned it.
Best of all is that this stuff “just works”. You won’t upgrade the OS in the future and have the SuperDrive lose any capabilities until you hunt for a driver somewhere. I have a three year old Power Mac G3 (blue and white) that I’m about to sell because it’s not getting used now that I have a Power Mac G4 and PowerBook G4, but it’s almost hard to sell it because it works as well now as it did when I first got it. In the past, I’ve had Intel systems that I couldn’t wait to unload, because after 18 months the software bundle was a mess and at least one hardware component was no longer working due to a software problem. Finding upgrades for Intel means scouring Web sites for files with cryptic names, while this three year old Power Mac G3 has stayed up to date all on its own, through Apple’s Software Update, that just pops up once a month with a list of upgrades and I check off any that I want and say “go”. It makes a huge difference to have Apple doing the admin work so I don’t need to. It’s a major benefit.
So, as this applies to the new iMac … if you buy one of these, it will plug away for years with no troubles. Mac OS X is a rock (the machine I’m using right now has only ever run Mac OS X, and it has never, ever crashed, and I’ve never pressed the reset button), the software is married to the hardware and will stay that way throughout the life of the machine automatically (making the distinction essentially invisible, no matter how much Microsoft would like you to believe there should be a distinction), and for $249 extra Apple will sell you AppleCare, which includes a copy of TechTool Pro, great phone support, and they’ll fix anything that goes wrong within a couple of days for three full years. Now that we’ve all come to rely on our computers, it’s hard to see how you would want to settle for anything less than that. It’s cheaper in the long run to go with Apple, even if you pay more up-front, which you don’t have to do anymore, anyway, compared to other brand name manufacturers.
I have read a few comments here that claim OS X and the aqua interface are slow and hog system resources. Currently I run a first-revision 300Mhz blue and white G3 tower at home, and OS X runs as smooth as silk. It is not quite as peppy as my 533Mhz G4 tower at work, but I don’t expect it to be. I am a graphic artist, and have around 400Mb of RAM in both machines. Even Photoshop in classic mode on my G3 runs smoothly and quickly. If you are seeing poor performance in OS X, I recommend upgrading your RAM.
The OS is gorgeous to look at, and easy to use. However, the most beautiful part of OS X for me is protected memory. I run my Mac at home 24 hours a day, and have done so for months, and it has NEVER locked up, which is something I definitely can’t say about the previous Mac OS or my Win98 PC.
The other awesome feature that I love about OS X is true multitasking. While applying a filter to a high-resolution graphic, or saving a 100Mb+ file, I can instantly switch to another application while the other one works in the background, with no lag.
Most complaints that I have read can be easily solved by adding a little bit of RAM to the system. You don’t NEED as much as I utilize to run OS X by any stretch of the imagination, unless you regularly work with huge graphics files, as I do. RAM is extremely inexpensive, and simple to upgrade.
I have preordered a new 800Mhz iMac with 512Mb of RAM, and the additional 256Mb only drove the price up around $100 (a rarity when ordering RAM directly from a computer manufacturer).
The digital hub concept is brilliant – 4 full-featured elegant software applications to handle your music, photos, movies, and dvd burning. All right out of the box. No Wintel box will do that as well as my new iMac, I promise you.
At work, I deal with Windows and Dell. These are great machines they can network, share files with eachother. They can perform office operations such as managing database, creating documents, creating spreadsheets, and some powerpoint presentations. Not to forget they can access the Internet.
At home, I don’t deal with those types of business. I just want to take pictures of my kids and put them on the web using my Mac. I can edit digital video with ease (try to do that on a Wintel box). I can create and manage my music. And on the plus side, I can surf the net wirelessly.
So, if you want to work at home then it’s your choice. I just want to have fun at home.
As happy owners of a versionB 233, the new imac will be a welcomed at our house since we need a second
computer. Imacs fit our needs much better than PCs – they are more user friendly. The availability of software argument is like the number of cable channels available on the TV. I don’t need 500 channels when there are only 10-15 different ones that I would ever want to use. We wanted a machine to go on line with which was user friendly and the MAC fit the bill.
“What many people fail to realize is that radical breakthrough product like the new iMac is the main reason why Apple is still in business today.”
OMFG .. radical breakthrough? It’s a friggin’ desk lamp for crying out loud!
I’m not going to argue that it doesn’t look ‘neato’, but it doesn’t make me want to run out and buy one just because it saves desk space.
No matter how you shape it, a Mac is still a Mac. And while I’m not saying that’s a bad thing, it’s just that the introduction of the iLamp doesn’t make Macs look any more attractive to me than they were beforehand.
Hell, I’ve been using Windows for about 7-8 years and my Win2k box is stable, FAST, and secure because I know how to make it that way. In order for Apple to convince me to sell my PC & run out and buy a Mac, they’re going to have to make Macs do something that my current setup absolutely can’t do AND it has to be something that I actually want. In other words, the killer app that I absolutely can’t do without.
But as it stands, the only thing they seem interested in doing redesigning the iMac every year and trying to sell the same damn machine year after year in a different package. <<<<
The new imac saving deskspace is one of the few fine details that apple points out. I think right there shows how deep it will go in order to be #1. Sure windows can be a strong OS…for about a life of 3 years or so. And think about the facts. How does the average person use a computer? They don’t know the difference between windows 98,ME,or even XP except the look, but what they don’t realize is that they aren’t getting their money’s worth because of the fact that they will eventually spend most of their money repairing the computer. All those clogged up .dll’s in windows will eventually kill your computer, rendering it useless. Those damn boxes that pop up in windows saying “are you sure?” and give you a yes or no choice. And finally, window’s favorite part of making the OS, the infamous big blue monster aka the error screen. That screen speaks for itself on how annoying it can be. Simplicity and stability? I can’t find it anywhere near a windows OS. This is where Mac’s come to play. The new imac:dvd-r,256mb ram, 800mhz=1.6ghz, unix based? who could ask for more? And for your troubles, Mac’s can play windows files using virtualPC. just tell these facts to the average joe:
*Macintosh software comprises over 18% of all software sold. Macintosh users actually use more applications than Windows users, citing ease of installation of Mac applications as one of the reasons
*Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak, inventors of the Apple computer, were recently named the 5th most influential businessmen of this century. Bill Gates is 50th.
*A business Mac user gets $24,000 more work done per year, his or her computer is down 14% less, and it costs less to support than any other platform.
*Other than Word macro viruses, there are over 20,000 PC viruses, yet only about 50 Mac ones. Also, there is no Mac virus that can destroy your hardware. Some PC viruses can zero out the flash BIOS and render the computer totally inoperable
*Microsoft admitted on their own website that Windows NT 4.0 has more than 10,000 bugs. (The page has since been removed.) If you don’t believe me, take a look at the copy on the box of Cybermedia’s First Aid 98. It says “Fixes tens of thousands of Windows problems.”
*PC support costs are 8 times as high as Mac support.
*PC support costs are 4 times higher than Mac.
*The architectural firm that designed Bill Gates’ $50 million residence, Bohlin Cywinski Jackson in Seattle, is a Mac shop.
*The Navy missile cruiser USS Yorktown suffered a crippling systems failure when its Windows NT operating system tried to divide by zero. “Even a $3 calculator gives you a ‘zero’ and doesn’t stop executing the next set of instructions”, said an engineer with the Atlantic Fleet Technical Support Center. The ship ultimately had to be towed into the Naval base at Norfolk, VA.
—-you get the point—–
“Has shrank”?
any graphic artists using OSX on a Tibook (400mhz)?
Thinking about upgrading to OSX but really dont want to loose proformance.
The best improvement on the old imac was the introduction of the slot loader (car style).Why have they left this improvement out on the new imac????
I know Apple is making a little money right now, but I don’t know if that means they are set for the future. A marketshare of 2.9% is horrendous, but I’m hoping that the software developers will continue supporting the less profitable macs for reasons I fail to see.
I want a new iMac really badly, but I know most other people who truly don’t need the iMac’s “power” wouldn’t buy a mac because they can’t go to a store and buy a solid performer for $600 without looking around or doing research, and then buy a program or game that happens to grab their attention.
It gets really annoying to not be able to buy something you want 82% of the time.
Apple needs a new product to attract everybody, be cheap, and have decent specs. For now, buyers will be just us who want the BMW’s.
What did people expect, every site rumoured what the imac would look like, To me this does not leave me dissappoi nted, its a grower. Its a trend setting. Nothing else is like it. Its a mac.
And looks aside they are giving the inside a boost as well.
Good stuff! very futuristic!
Any Mac user not embracing the new iMac isn’t really one of us. Not really. Maybe in the way folks criticized what Lee Iaccoca did with GM in the early 70’s or what Ani DiFranco has done for folk music or even what the Cohen brothers have done for cinema lately, and then turn around and explain that they were always behind innovation after acceptance. Making gobs of money is not what true value and worth are about. The truth is that Bill Gates and all his yes men drool at the site of Mac users criticizing anything new, because all he’s ever done is feed off shortsightedness in people willing to pay a buck for what’s worth half of that. Either stay with this important community of gifted, artistic computer users, programmers, makers of music etc… or stay away. But don’t pretend to understand what’s cool.
Speaking of Apple going out of business is foolish. I have used both Mac and PC for a long time. Mac has always been better. No questions or exceptions. PC people have told me not to buy a new Mac every time i bought one because the Apple was about to go out of business. That was not true when they told me that 5 years ago and it is not true now. Apple is here to stay. Slowly the world will realize the advantages of Macs. The pentagon alrealdy has, as have most animation company’s.
I love the new iMac..sure it is overpriced as everything Apple is but is to be expected since Woz left. Jobs almost ruined Apple way back when by overpricing his product to the Yuppies. but the iMac and iBook are a great step to getting the kids back to Apple.
As for the folks who are saying the old iMac barely runs OS X. I have a fruit iMac DV and have been running OS X since the beta without a problem. just get the ram baby!
I’m a recently converted Mac fanatic. I got into Macs becase of what one person called “The killer app I couldn’t do without”, which was Final Cut Pro. It hasn’t actually made me any money, but all the work I do for video editing is just home brew, and I must say FCP hasn’t given me a moments problem like Primere on my PC did.
I work for a computer tech firm that does contract hourly tech work for a medium sized city. I work exclusively on PCs, not because none of my customers have Macs, it’s because none of the Macs ever faulter in what they do. I have built several PCs for various companies, and again, always PCs. Why? Because we are replacing old PCs, or even new PCs that are simply too much trouble to fix.
Here is the general breakdown. For a fairly powerful business machine, I can build one, from parts, with no monitor, and no extras for around 600$. We sell them for a bit more, and make a tidy profit. About 6 months later, the cheap hard drive fails, all data is lost, we build a new computer or replace hard drive. Before that, numerous networking problems have occoured, all making us plenty of money in tech calls. Databases suddenly corrupt, users delete the WINNT folder, all sorts of mahem and madness. But not once have I had to touch a Mac.
We charge a minimum of 75$ to contract customers per hour of work, and 125$ an hour to non contract work. So, do the math, and figure out which one costs less for businesses. These prices are very low for tech work too BTW.
Other problems with the cheap PCs are no graphic acceloration, bad colors, low resolution with sharp picture (all graphic problems), bad IDE support for fast drives, power consistancy problems from cheap power supply, bad motherboard drivers, and above all else, they are slow, despite the 800-900Mhz PIII we put in them, which should be plenty for business. Apparently, windows doesn’t think so.
For an actually STABLE system, with monitor, you are going to have to pay at least 1200$ if you want any ammount of reliable speed, and stable hardware. Even looking at Gateways and Dells this is very obvioiusly the case. Several of our customers buy these machines as well, merely because they think it’s better hardware, and while some components are, all of them produce the same ammount of software and networking problems, even if the computer it’s self doesn’t have as many hardware failures, but, as we all know, a hardware failure in a cheap-o computer, you might as well just replace it.
This cycle of the “hole in the desk that you pour money into” is why I have a job. Since I bought my G4 733, I have needed only one upgrade to 512MB ram from 256 because of my programming projects, and my need to have classic running all the time. 60$. Ammount of money I spent keeping my PC happy in one year, the year before I bought my Mac, was almost 6000$. Needless to say, I feel 100x happier with my Mac, and no, I’m never going back.
My main theroy as to why Windows is on top, is simply the dilbert pricipal. People are all idiots who can’t see the big picture. I had one customer with a slow server and a slow workstation look me right in the eye and say GIVE ME A STABLE SYSTEM! I’LL PAY ANY AMMOUNT OF MONEY!!! He was completely frustrated with Windows instability, and inability to do what he needed done. And all this machine really did was read email and write Word documents, but of course, when you are asking windows for a year of stability, you are asking a bit much, especially considering both were running “THE BEST OS EVER! WINDOWS98!” Try and convince this guy that switching to Macs is a good idea, and you are talking to a wall.
I’ve said it before, and I will say it again. If Macs want a huge market share, they should work with Microsoft and make Windows for Macintosh. None of this VirtualPC crap, I’m talking full on Windows for Mac. I would say at least 50% of the people that would buy a new computer would go hey, how about that nice looking one. After a few months when Windows beats it’s self to death reading email attachements, suddenly the idea dawns on the idiots to use Mac OS. Of course, Microsoft, nor Apple will ever DO this, but without a doubt, if all you care about is market share, there’s your solution. Will people pay more for a cool looking computer that runs Windows? I guarentee it. Especially if the point is made that the hardware is simply better. I believe AlienPC made a killing back in the golden years of gaming, simply because they had black cases, and all PC users drool over the engineering of a Mac, even the most hardcore of the hardcore.
The other option for a much higher market share IMHO, is to ship macs with an X86 processor onboard as a secondary processor. SUN system has done this for a long time, and had WindowsNT running in a window inside Solarius. They knew what they had to do to gain market share, and they did it. If Apple integrated a “classic” like interface, where applications simply ran in an OS booted in the background, all Mac AND PC users would rejoice. Think of it. Access running on a Mac. Yahoo Messenger, with all the webcam features. And finally, when windows crashes (not if) your unix system is safe. Don’t talk to me about VirtualPC either, it’s too slow to really be useable in a business environment.
In any case, if I was CEO of Apple, that would be my plan of attack to boost market share up to at least 25%. Once that was done, getting people to convert to the native OS is a whole lot easier.
Viper-X
All that talk about market share and I forgot to talk about the new iMac!
Alright, here’s my take on it. CRTs are out, period. They use too much power, and fail far too often. They have a short life, and the cheap ones will make you go blind before you turn 25. I currently USE a CRT because I can’t afford a new Apple Cinema, BUT, I use an Intergraph CAD class CRT that I got for free. In all honesty, if I bought this thing new when it came out, I probably could have bought 2 22″ cinema displays now.
What I don’t get are the Mac fanatics that said, iMac needs a flatscreen! Over and over and over till they were blue, Apple gives it one, and you are unimpressed. I just don’t understand you people.
G4 vs. G3, I have seen no huge gain in speed when you compare the two processors doing non-alti-vec enhanced apps at the same clock speed, BUT OSX is very enhanced by Alti-vec, SO, I would say if you are happy with OS9, a G3 iMac is still your cheap way to go. Most likely, the speed increase in OSX using a G4 is why the new iMac has one anyway. I’ve seen FCP running at a very good speed on a 700Mhz iMac G3, so I know what I am talking about.
The design of the new iMac is without a doubt, wonderful, for all the reasons the old design was wonderful, and has a few more. It’s all in one, so going to LAN Quake 3 parties or MP3 tradefests, is a snap. Upgrading is, like all Macs that are all in one, unnecisary (and also impossible tho) for any everyday tasks. Need to throw in a new video card? TOO BAD! This system is stable and STAYING THAT WAY. Like my previous statement, everyone is an idiot, simply because they think that newer hardware is only going to be a GOOD thing. Most of the time it’s a horrible idea that ends in lost data and blood.
The new goodies are a display that won’t make you go blind, a pro keyboard and mouse, good speakers that are upgradeable, hardware acceloration enough to run any current game at a good framerate, and basically, a fix for everything wrong with the original iMac. In other words: Apple listened to what the users complained about, and fixed all of it, yet YOU PEOPLE STILL WHINE ABOUT NOTHING.
As far as the look is concerened, unlike most computers, the iMac was designed to be friendly to humans, not engineers (who are of course a subclass of humans who think that a giant buldge in a mouse will be better for the wrist) The monitor… adjusts to any angle, a common complaint with the iMac, and yet you STILL complain. The footprint is even SMALLER than the old iMac and yet you STILL complain. The media drive can burn DVD-Rs, so there is no need to ever buy an external drive for anything other than zip disks (as it should be if you ask me) and YET YOU STILL COMPLAIN. If you want to call it a lamp, FINE call it a lamp, then laugh at people that call a monitor a TV, or a CD-ROM trey a cup holder. Go on! It makes perfect sense logically when you think about it, I mean, it DOES resemble that shape when you get down to it. OR you COULD just quit complaing about something that was designed to be friendly to the vast differences in human sitting position, and preference, yet still small as possible.
As far as the price goes, I REALLY don’t see what you are complaing about there. I paid 3500 a year ago for a 733 with no monitor and a superdrive, and now you can get all that AND a flatscreen 15″ with an 800? ARE YOU PEOPLE SMOKING CRACK?! That’s a 50% reduction in cost FOR A FASTER SYSTEM IN ONLY ONE YEAR not to mention all the free software that comes with an iMac!!
Final notes on what everyone is complaining about:
1. a 15″ monitor is too small
Millions of 13″ old iMac users prove you wrong.
15″ on an LCD is really 15″, compareable to a 17″CRT.
15″ of LCD can be a lot closer to the face than a large CRT with no eye strain.
2. It’s too expensive!
Bull. People spend money on complete garbage every day, why make your computer the same useless cheap purchace?
Compared to old prices on G4s, it’s a steal. In fact, It’s rediculously underpriced considering a good 15″ flatscreen costs you 500$ alone.
3. It’s UGLY!
Please go back to your PC and have some quiet time while you try and figure up more stupid reasons why you aren’t a mac user. I really do think it’s pathetic when people are more attracted to a beige box than a streamlined engeneering marvel. I suppose it proves the dilbert pricipal once again.
Viper-X (The Angry)
Won’t it be great when the next computer genius comes along and makes an operating system that will actually works the way everyone wants or thinks it should on any platform. That’ll make all these computer Know-it-alls shut up. Let’s all be honest, as it stands now both Windows anytype or the Mac OS anytype suck. It doesn’t matter what platform or what OS your using, they’re both gonna crash, freeze, whatever. And the one guy that was dissing PC users because they like to complain about their computers and stuff, you should here what us graphics guys where I work say about the Mac. Ever hear the term “The Magic of the Macintosh”.
I guess that this is the way that I look at it. When you get right down to it, there is no convincing a hardcore Mac user that there could possibly be a chance, even a tiny, itty bitty one, that maybe a PC is a better choice for some people. I am not saying that everyone that post here is like that but it seems to be a running theme.
Yes, there are certian things that a PC can do better than a Macintosh. And yes, there are certian things that a Mac can do better than a WinTel box. Sadly, logical thinking like that seems to be a concept that escapes most of you.
I am a tweny one year old college student (going when I have money) that also works in a computer store in the service dept. I work on both on and OWN both Mac’s and PC’s. I see just as many strange problems with Macs as I do with PC’s. The problem with both platforms is that THEY ARE MADE BY PEOPLE AND PEOPLE MAKE MISTAKES! As great as Mac OS X and Windows XP both are they are not perfect. My Ibook locks up just as much as my Athlon Windows box. I have been reading through the comments and one person who is a Mac fan said he didn’t care if apple crapped in a tower and slapped a Apple logo on it. He said that he would buy it! That is the attitude of Mac users that infurates me to no end.
You know what, I love Macs. But you know what else. there are things I want to do that I can’t with my Mac. That and Macs cost an arm and a leg. The only reason that I have my beloved 366MHz indigo firewire Ibook is because I got a screaming deal on it. ($100). I built my Athlon 1600+
with 1.5 Gigabytes of RAM, 64 MB Radeon video card, and surrond sound sound blaster card for under $500. You can’t tell me that a new Imac running with a castrated G4 (100 MHz bus and no L3 cache) and an out of date GeForce 2MX video card will out pace my computer. That, and you can’t really customize them the same way that you can a PC. You want a machine that can do it all? The is nothing holding back a PC because it is an open standard. Anyone can come out with a part, gizmo, or softwrare to do most anything. You want style? Have you ever seen some of the custom PCs that geeks make for themselves. Neon light, holograms, see though side panels?
On the other hand, Macs are more user friendly (though XP is not far behind), are well built, and do content creation very, very well. If you want to do content creation (photo editing, digital movie editing, etc…), then by all means get a Macintosh. But if you type papers, check e-mail, and surf the web why buy a $1300 dollar Mac when a $600 dollar machine will do all of those things?
I guess that what I am trying to say is that if you like Mac and have some spare change, buy a Mac. If you are on a budget and don’t want to do fancy things with your machine, you would be better off with a PC. Brand loyalty is great, standing up for what you believe in is fantastic but don’t let your close mindedness cloud your judgement. Look at both side of the coin and see that there is indeed a world outside of Steve Jobs and Apple Computer.
PS: I typed this on my Ibook at 4 in the morning and guess what else, I HATE BILL GATES, TOO!
A friend of mine who has been a PC user for 20 years is now considering the new iMac as his next purchase. Where there’s smoke …
I happen to have never bought or used a mac before in my life, but I’m seriously considering it after reading about this new imac in Time. Why? I can’t help but think this imac was built just for me. We’re probably a pretty average suburban couple, two young kids, minivan drivers… We’re buying a second computer to sit on our main floor, (so looks and size DO matter), plus I’m interested in editing digital photo and video, and of course in using the internet with broadband (anyone with kids these days knows the importance of having a first-floor/main-flow-of-traffic computer). This computer will not be used for complicated video games (that’s tv now) or running engineering software or solving physics equations. I’ve been looking at Dell and other PC’s, trying to come up with a 15″ LCD, with a DVD-R burner, plus the photo/video editing software, and those pc systems end up costing $2,800 vs $1,900 for the mac (800 ghz G4 with 512 MB ram).
BUT, since I’ve never used a mac before, my main question is whether they do well on the internet, and just how slow it will be (the processing speed looks slow, but is it more streamlined??). Also, is the basic mac photo and video editing software any better than what I could buy for a pc for about $100??
Any help from anyone who’s used both pc’s and macs??
“UT, since I’ve never used a mac before, my main question is whether they do well on the internet, and just how slow it will be (the processing speed looks slow but is it more streamlined??). Also, is the basic mac photo and video editing software any better than what I could buy for a pc for about $100?? ”
The processing speed looks slow because it is a 128 bit chip so double the speed and that is the comparable intel chip speed. I think that you will be very happy with the software found already on the mac for your home projects. I have worked on computers for seven years even though I am only 20. I started with an 80/86 and moved to a mac and never went back. An advantage you might not have seen is that the macintosh is what your children will probably be learning and using in school so having the same work environment at home would be beneficial.
Your best bet is to try one out. I think you will be very, very happy once you do. G4 chips are extremely fast. (any benchmark sites, anyone?) I use a G3 500mhz PowerBook for graphics work and although it runs OSX a bit slow, it suites me very well running Adobe’s Photoshop and Illustrator in OS9. I am also always amazed when I go to the computer store and find my little laptop just as fast (if not faster) than then Pentium4 PC’s on display. Get yourself lots of ram–512 or above and you’ll be set for years to come. Good luck with whatever you do. You really can’t go wrong with a Mac! : )
As a PC user for more than 10 years. I still think that Buying a PC might be cheaper initially. But eventually it is slowly emptying your wallet with its insignificant “upgrades” to make you feel like they are helping you. But actually, they are just mimicking the innovations that apple is giving. I’m sorry, but that’s the fact you have to face. Try evaluating the cost you spent to get to the kind of automation and innovation and performance apple has created. The truth really hurts, right?
I’ve been a PC user for years now, and I have never even considered getting a Mac before. I knew nothing about them. I happened to see an ad for the new iMac, and I was hooked. It wasn’t even so much the design as much as the features. I got to try one out a few weeks ago and the speed was much improved over the Dell 1 Ghz I am running now. The DVD-R was another main reason that convinced me to buy. I purchased it a few weeks ago, and I can’t wait until it comes in. It’s going to take some learning to get used to OS10 (going to Windows XP), but I believe its well worth it.
See, you are missing a clear and defined point Josh. You are failing to realize that we aren’t most users. Most users don’t know how to put together a machine like the one you have, and you also failed to calculate keyboard, mouse, monitor, hard drive, CD-ROM drive, ram, floppy drive, OS, and software in your magical 500$ machine. Knowing me, who is probably a lot like you, you took all of this out of your old machine, and kept on truckin, thinking you got a computer for 500$, well, you didn’t.
The truth is, what you are doing is common anti-apple propoganda. That PCs are in fact, cheaper. Now, let’s put this into perspective, since you are SOOO damn adament to prove this point. Let’s compare the parts for a PC to produce something comperable to the new iMac G4 1799$ machine.
Since speed is realative, I’ll use the Athlon, which is a very unstably hot chip, completely contrary to Apples cool running G4s, but it IS in fact cheap.
Athlon 1600+ Retail Box = 125$ (remember, all apple products come WITH a 1 year warrenty, so don’t mess with me about retail vs. OEM)
I’m a big fan of Asus, so we will get an ASUS board:
Asus A7A 133 = The cheapest one on Pricewatch 75$
NEC 15″ LCD monitor = 350$ (yeah, they make cheaper ones, but we are trying to get close on the same quality here)
256MB PC-133 SDRAM = 31$
The cheapest 60GIG 7200 hdd on Pricewatch = 107$
Pioneer A03 = The same drive in the Apple 400$
Keyboard = (now, the only keyboard I can stand on a PC is a Microsoft Natural Pro) 70$
Mouse = (Logitech at wallymart) 20$
Cheap worthless soundcard = 10$
GeForce 2 MX = (I hope you don’t mind I skipped the Jayton crap) 50$
HK speakers = 15$
Now, add shipping to all that garbage and you have a heavty sum, considering I was getting the cheapest stuff on Pricewatch from “wherever” so, I’ll just skip that and mention it at the end, but as of now, WOW, only ~1200$!! So, you get the system! Whooo hoo! I have something cheaper than a Mac that does the same thing! You turn it on, and you get a blank screen that says FAILURE OF BOOT DRIVE. Why? No OS. OH!! Ok, so let’s get that stuff.
Windows XP = 200$
QuickTime = 30$
🙁 Unfortunatly, the only good apps for video editing and DVD editing are very expensive. And none of that hardware comes with free video editing software!
Oh well, let’s see if I can find some garbage apps for doing it…
Premiere (hrmm… a little more powerful than iMove2, but hey, I gave you lots of outs with very crappy hardware) = 450$
AWW! I can’t find any cheap DVD media creation software!
Ok, so let’s do it like this. We will split the systems so that one can make DVDs and the other can’t. Sound good?
ok, so 1200$ for just the hardware to start, then, top it off with Windows XP for 200 and Quicktime for 30, so that’s 1430 right there. (remember, honest people don’t steal software you pirate) Plus about 4000$ for the Prassi DVD studio software, which was all I could easilly find (You don’t think I’m going to put hours of searching in on this do you?) And premiere, the only software that does what iMove does and a bit more (DO NOT TALK TO ME ABOUT ULEAD OR I WILL KILL YOU) is 450$ So we are looking at over 6000$ before shipping, plus the fact that some of that hardware is horrible.
Ok, so a discount of 250$ to nix the DVD-R for a 24x 10x 40x Acer drive, so, that is 950 to start with base hardware, plus 230$ for the OS and quicktime, and finally, 450$ for premiere. so that’s 1630, (and i’m assuming that the CD-RW retail box comes with Adaptec Easy CD Creator, which is by far, harder than finder burning)
ok, so 1630 vs. 1299. Hrmm… that’s for the non DVD-R station
and, I’ll assume there is cheaper DVD-R software out there, and make it’s fantasy number 500, just cause I feel sorry for you, and say 2380 vs. 1799, even if the DVD-R software was free, it would still be 80$ more for the PC.
Not to mention the iMac also comes with this for free : iTunes 2, AppleWorks, Quicken 2002 Deluxe, World Book Mac OS X Edition, Otto Matic, Mac OS X Chess, PCalc, and FAXstf 10.0 Preview. I just felt really sorry for you so I didn’t go looking up the prices on these software titles.
So, let’s once again be OVERLY nice to you PC people and just make the Mac shipping and PC shipping FREE, even tho this is unfair considering how many places around the US you can walk in and buy one.
Now, finally, what’s your time worth to you? My time is pretty DANG valueable. The time it would take you to set that system up is about 2 days till you had all the software, and hardware working reliably, some might do it in one day in about 8 hours, but most people couldn’t do it in the first place. So, I’m rating my time as priceless, and taking the middle ground at 2 days to set it all up, and making all shipping times the same. SO, where’s the value? The truth is, the only people that think PCs are cheaper steal software, it’s a bald face LIE that PCs cost less, even initally. NOW, can you go to Dell or Gateway and get a system like this with all the software free? Let’s find out…
Dell apparently has no DVD-R system at all, BUT! Let’s compare the CD-RW shall we?
Ok, dell doesn’t have any system with 24x CD-RWs
The comparison would be generally unfair to the Mac, but isn’t everything else?
WOW! Dell options actually make this somewhat ballanced! Altho the price isn’t. For the dell system with MS Works (AppleWorks) Dell’s movie software (iMovie2), HK speakers, some Dell MP3 software, and the same goodies other than processor or course, (Dell is a P4 1.7 GHz) it’s only 1700$!! WHAT A STEAL. (BTW: Don’t mess with me about processor, I COULDN”T GO SLOWER)
So, wait, PCs cheaper? I laugh at anyone who says this.
Viper-X (I know more than you think)
Viper-X (The Angry)
The New iMac is a great design that will push Apple’s market share to 5% because of it’s combination of it’s OS ease of use, great new hardware specs and features, and just plain cute-ness. No PC on the market currently has that combination and surely at least 1 out of 20 comp buyers will fall for this new machine. We will see in a few months…
A DVD-R Solution wasn’t on the DELL main page, but it was a BTO option later in the process that I missed!
Sorry about that, with the DVD-R it’s only 2037$ with all the same options as above.
Oh, and I just said 1700, the exact number was 1668$ with those options above.
Remember, I am giving the PC a lot of outs in comparing XP to OSX since they both have advantages and disadvantages. Feel free to go to Dells site and verify this information.
Dimension 8200 system with 256MB ram, FREE! 80 Gig hdd, floppy, Dell’s free keyboard, MS Intellimouse, 1 year warrenty, XP Home edition (99$ more for the actual USEABLE version, Professional), Works 2002, 15″ Flatscreen, 64MB Nvidia GeForce 2MX (yeah, vs. the iMac 32MB, but the speed advantages are negligable, and yeah, I can’t spell), 24x/10x/40x CD-RW (low end) DVD-RW/CD-RW combo drive (high end), HK speakers, NO FLAT PANEL SPEAKERS, Integrated SB 16 horrible audio, Dell Jukebox (probably something like iTunes), Image Expert (probably something like iPhoto), Standard Dell Movie Studio Bundle (Probably something like iMovie), 10/100 ethernet.
Now granted, compared to apples media software, the dell versions probably suck. So bear that in mind when you pay hundreds more for a less stable system than an iMac.
It hurts when you have to eat your words, I know, but like I said, if you steal software, you might pay a few hundred less for a PC that is put together by yours truely, and has no software at all on it. Then again, XP has some security against that too, and as I said, my time is priceless.
Viper-X (Mac user, by choice, not because of some lame speech by Jobs)
Thanks to viper-x for the comparisons of Apple vs. DEll. I came very close to abandoning my mac for a new Dell, but I just couldn’t push that last button to order on their website. Something in the back of my mind said wait for the Mac announcement at the the expo. WELL am I happy When the new Imac came out-Flat screen!! dvd-r!!! etc. etc. etc. I am fully back in the fold of mother apple (since 1986) I saw it live the apple store what a beauty and its fast. The only drawback- they don”t know when they’ll be in they tell me the end of the month but that’s in 4 days-lets get them in so I can use this performa for a planter!
-Mac aroni -J. performa 6205
this performa just cant get the date an time right!!
aas
Notice I said PC, as in personal computer not as in a wintel computer.
I think the design is quite nice – as more PCs end up in our living rooms style and size matter a lot more. My wife really didn’t want a big desktop and 17 inch CRT taking up my desk which is part of the family room. All those cables, power supplies are a real eyesore. I honestly believe that people want substance and style – and the traditional Wintel beige box can’t deliver. My proof of that thesis is the Palm V – a less powerful version than the IIIx and more expensive and it really sold.
Price wise I think that the new iMac is a good deal – like ViperX I priced out a 8200 on Dell and it came in slightly higher before shipping – it isn’t cheap but I’m not paying a premium for the brand either. Apple can’t make money at the low end of the market – I often wonder if Dell can for that matter. So it’s a smart use of their limited resources to leave the cheap end of the market to local clone builders and others. Dave’s rule #1 of business – try to make money.
I think that the nay-sayers complaining about a lack of upgradability are assuming that they reflect the market. Let’s be honest – people who post on boards like these aren’t afraid of opening up the box and adding a card. iMacs are aimed at that part of the market that won’t ever do that. No one complains that their VCR/TV/dishwasher won’t upgrade, and that’s where PC’s are going. They’re just one more appliance in the house.
I don’t think that I’ll ever upgrade a computer again – old computers will be handed down to my kids – who don’t need power machines (yet) – or to my parents who just want to email. With NIC cards so cheap why not just put the old one on the LAN and use it as a print server or stick it in a bedroom somewhere.
Wintel PC’s don’t upgrade very easily anymore – as soon as you start talking about a name brand PC you realize that they’re integrated and don’t use standard form factors. If you’re a gamer who needs the latest videocard a clone box is the way to go and you’d never buy a Mac anyways…the games aren’t there.
As far as the OS goes – I can’t comment about OSX, win2k pro has been reasonably stable on my work laptop, win98 not as stable on my wife’s. But I don’t care about the OS – ideally I never want to deal with it. Applications are what I use along with most of the world, as long as apps work and the OS makes it easy to start the apps I’m happy.
Bottom line – I’m looking forward to buying my first Mac. I’m buying it because it is the only PC that meets my needs.
I consider myself the heart and sole of Apple’s business, I’m a Graphic Designer that has stuck by the Mac through thick and thin. It’s the best operating system in the world.
We may debate that it’s new stylish I-Mac is too expensive, but this isn’t what should concern us.
There is only one reason Apple has a 2 or 3% share of the market. Bill Gates learned long ago that selling operating systems is the way to go. When will Apple wake up? Just think about of all the Apple converts there would of been if Mac OSX (System 7, OS8, OS9) had been released for Macs, PCs and Unix. It’s not to late.
Die Hard Mac User
Ok, listen up all you people that claim that even “a dollar” more Apple charges for its products is worth nixing its products in favor of pc’s. This is totally ridiculous. Do I wish macs were cheaper? Well who doesn’t. But it’s silly to think that Apple can compete on price with pc’s when the quality of their software and hardware is so high. Do you expect a Dodge station wagon to be the same as a BMW (and cost the same?). Most pc’s are cobbled together with less than premium parts, aren’t innovative, and run on Windows, which STILL isn’t as streamlined and hassle free as the Mac OS. Apple spends a lot of time, effort and money on innovation, both in software and hardware. The end result are machines that are simply easier to use, easier to maintain, and provide a lot less headaches than pc’s. Isn’t that in the end worth the extra price?
And one more thing Mhz ratings are USELESS! People need to get their heads out of this Mhz rating comparisons once and for all. PowerPC chips and Pentium chips are totally different architectures, and in real world tests certain applications like Photoshop will beat pc’s to a pupl.
Anyone who has ever experienced the reliability and stability of a MAC know,s that once you go MAC YOU WON’T GO BACK!!!
I have both a G4 and IBM Compatible. I can tell you that the G4 has never had a problem or error in the whole 1.5 years that I have had it. On the other hand, the IBM Comp. in that same amount of time has been down longer than it has been up and it is supposed to be a good system(NOT!!!). I had to redo my system 3 times in that period and it still has problems.
It is true that Macintosh lacks programs, but it is only because software companies do not want to go the extra mile to make their programs more stable and better to run on the Mac. Why should the software companies spend more money to make there programs better if stupid people keep on buying the crapy unstable software.
You all PC lovers are the problem. You expect less from your computer. We Mac users expect that each day when we turn on the computer that it will actually start up and run smooth. If mac decreased the value of their system then their computers would be as pitifull as the PC.
Expect more from your computer and you will have to buy MAC!!!!
I bought my first PC in 1996 (Gateway 133mhz, 2.5 gig harddrive, 17 inch monitor, windows 98) for $2700. I should have sent it back in the first 30 days but no I was too stupid to realize that the problems I was having with it were just the beginning. I rebuilt that one and gave it to my brother. I built a PC, I had no formal education, but after all the problems I had with it, I became quite an expert on computers. I dont remember what that one cost. My husband fried that one with air in a can. Number 3, another Gateway, P4 1.6, 128 RAM, 80 gig harddrive, Windows ME which totally sucks, XP upgrade which also sucks but has a prettier face, no monitor $1700 dollars. I have to reboot it atleast 4 times a day. I have also had to reinstall it 3 times. By the way the XP Upgrade allows u to install it as a second operating system. I wonder if Microsoft overlooked this? Over the years I’ve spent at least $7000 dollars on software, not to mention peripherals. I called Saturday and ordered the new IMAC, I can’t wait til it comes. This will cost me almost 2400 total,with airport card and 512 RAM. I will put another 512 in it when it gets here. With a flat panel monitor and DVD burner, you’d have to be an idiot not to see what a steal it is. Once I was told that PC’s are for people who can’t afford Mac’s, but now I’m convinced it’s the other way around. One other feature for me (because it’s so small) when I’m out of town with my husband and 2 of the kids, I can lock it up so that my oldest son and his friends don’t use it. Also as far as hubby is concerned, his windows games won’t work on it and that’s all he needs to know. Don’t tell him about VirtualPC OK?? SHHHHH
I said earlier that the Mac lacks software, but I think that there is more out there than I realize. The only thing that I wish they had was more Engineering software. AutoCad, Xilinx, etc… The mac has everything else that I could need. The only reason that I wish that they had this software is so I could finally get rid of this IBM Comp.
I would also like to mention that my G4/400MHz/1MB level2cache is as fast as the 850 Athlon Thunderbird, but my G4 Processor runs at around 19-20 Degrees C and the Athlon runs at 55-65 Degrees C. The G4 does not even have a CPU fan and I had to add 3 fans to my IBM Comp to get it down to 55 Degrees C.
Thanks
As usual I am mad as hell. This time it’s all the people being critical of the new imac. Apple is the one company except maybe Sony that makes technology with a sentient being in mind. At my old job I worked on a windows machine for nine months with a Mac sitting right next to me. There is no comparison. It was like comparing an Afghanistan whisky bomb to an American bunker buster. And just so you doubting Thomas’s will get it straight… XEROX developed the concept of a GUI and then Steve J and the Woz made Apple with that. Then along comes Mr. Monopoly too much is never enough Bill Gates and jumps on the band wagon. Windows still hasn’t gotten it right, or even close to right. It doesn’t matter that Windows machine are everywhere and that they dominate the market. The masses always go for the lame Titanic, or McDonalds, must have one on every corner gadget. Apple costs more because it’s better and the reason less people use it than Windows is because there are only so many of us intelligent people out here. I love how everything including toasters looks like the old imacs. Keep a look out for quickly cobbled together flat screen all in one windows machines with third world software… coming soon to a strip mall near you. I hope that lame X-box (running out of ideas) tanks and sinks that ubiquitous company. So keep making fun of Apple. I’m sure your job is just as interesting as the computer you work on! Beige fools!
As usual I am mad as hell. This time it’s all the people being critical of the new imac. Apple is the one company except maybe Sony that makes technology with a sentient being in mind. At my old job I worked on a windows machine for nine months with a Mac sitting right next to me. There is no comparison. It was like comparing an Afghanistan whisky bomb to an American bunker buster. And just so you doubting Thomas’s will get it straight… XEROX developed the concept of a GUI and then Steve J and the Woz made Apple with that. Then along comes Mr. Monopoly too much is never enough Bill Gates and jumps on the band wagon. Windows still hasn’t gotten it right, or even close to right. It doesn’t matter that Windows machine are everywhere and that they dominate the market. The masses always go for the lame Titanic, or McDonalds, must have one on every corner gadget. Apple costs more because it’s better and the reason less people use it than Windows is because there are only so many of us intelligent people out here. I love how everything including toasters looks like the old imacs. Keep a look out for quickly cobbled together flat screen all in one windows machines with third world software… coming soon to a strip mall near you. I hope that lame X-box (running out of ideas) tanks and sinks that ubiquitous company. So keep making fun of Apple. I’m sure your job is just as interesting as the computer you work on! Beige fools!
“especially since this one is only NICER than the Windows XP system and doesn’t actually do anything more. ”
…. well, it DOES work…
Viper-X,
You missed my entire point. The point of my messege was to say what I feel. I know that that there are things that Macs are better at. I freely admit that. THERE ARE THINGS THAT A MACINTOSH ARE BETTER SUITED AT THAN A PC! I never denied that. I also said that if you love Macs and you can afford one then by all means buy one. Buy what you like if you can afford it even if it means buying an older 400 MHz G4 graphite. BUT…
Why buy a machine that cost that much if you just want to type papers, send and recieve e-mail, and surf the internet. Yes, I know that you can’t do all of the cool things that you can do with the Imac but I am going to let you all in on a little secret. Working in the service dept. and talking with customers both Mac and Windows a heck of a lot of them have NO IDEA AT ALL what they are doing. A good deal of the people who buy both will never touch the full potential of either type of machine. RTFM I like to say!
=o)
My other point was the mentality of a good deal of the Mac users that I come across. The best example is a sales person where I work. I will call him Paul. Paul is around 71 years old and has no idea how any Mac after say, 1995, work. (Paul has been selling Macs for 15 years.) No matter what you tell him he REFUSES to admit that there is anything that a PC may be better suited for. NOTHING! About a month ago he sold a woman a Macintosh G4 tower, virtual PC, and a LCD monitor. With all that and some other items she spent $3000. She had told Paul that all she wanted to do was check e-mail and bring home work from her Win NT 4.0 box at work. She had the machine a week, realized how much she spent, and returned it. She spent $600 on a Celeron 1.1 GHz machine and a 15′ CRT. It works fine. Do you think that this woman should have kept the Macintosh? A lot of Mac users I talk to would say yes I bet. By no means am I saying that all of you are like that. I know that there are Mac users who are level headed and rational but you are in the minority. Those are just my personal experiences.
Also, here is the price list of my PC. Granted, I did have the 19′ inch monitor and I did get a free copy of XP Pro from MS at a training event but the hardware is as follows:
Athlon 1600+ (which I recently overclocked) $120
Main Board (Tyan Trinity), case and floppy = $110
CD-RW (8x speed but that is all i need) and 12X DVD = $60
Memory = 1.5 GB PC-133 S-DRAM = $80
NIC and Modem = $25
Radeon 7200 = $75
Hard Drive (Fujitsu 60 GB) = $80
All that is $550 WITH shipping. All prices came off of price watch between October and now. Granted this isn’t a short process but you can’t argue with the results.
Again, bottom line, get what you like and can afford. THAT IS WHAT I WAS TRYING TO SAY!
Joshu Busic said…
Also, here is the price list of my PC. Granted, I did have the 19′ inch monitor and I did get a free copy of XP Pro from MS at a training event but the hardware is as follows:
Athlon 1600+ (which I recently overclocked) $120
Main Board (Tyan Trinity), case and floppy = $110
CD-RW (8x speed but that is all i need) and 12X DVD = $60
Memory = 1.5 GB PC-133 S-DRAM = $80
NIC and Modem = $25
Radeon 7200 = $75
Hard Drive (Fujitsu 60 GB) = $80
All that is $550 WITH shipping.
Ok…and lets add in the cost of the monitor ($290 for 19″) and XP Pro ($199 or more) and it comes to about $1100…then the 7 to 10 hours to build, load, and burn in at $40 bucks and hour (tech fee’s) and it comes in WELL over $1500 bucks…OR you can “splurge” for $300 dollars more and get the new iMac with CD and DVD burner, nic, modem, and anything else you would need…and it’s ready to go..out of the box…SO…yes, the PC is seems cheaper…but my time is more than worth the hassle…
Well, I got my rant out in ealier post…so let me know try to explain my point. I work on PC’s at work. The boss thinks anyone who has an electrical degree also has a degree in computers. We have had 14 plus computers in our CAD/CAM lab since windows 3.0 came out. I struggled, I yelled, I promised my first born son…anything to keep men with 4 or more years of college from crashing the system. Yes, it has DRASTICALLY improved since windows 95 came out..but I still see the “blue screen of death” atleast once a day. These are not super loaded game machines or streaming giganet internet servers, they are P3 and celeron HP’s running a low resource eating CAD system. I didn’t even get a mac until the iMac first came out, well over 2 years ago. My son just HAD to have one. Dad played with it for a few days before christmas (testing it don’t ya know
. I was impressed with it’s self contained ability. Once I had upgraded the RAM (for the then cheap price of $120 bucks) it was virtually crash proof. Last I checked my son was running it as a mp3 peer to peer server (gnu what I mean 😛 for well over 2 weeks. I think apple is going down the right path…as more and more people get tired of tinkering with a computer “just to check” email. I know the BMW comparison rankles some but here’s my take on it. I used to have 67′ camaro…I got it for $1200 bucks. It would not outrun a BMW. I upgraded the motor for $600 bucks. It was as fast light to light as a BMW but did not have the top speed. I upgraded rear transmission for $200. I WAS REALLY faster than the BMW light to light…but now it had even less top speed. Pulled out the short rear gears put back the taller ones, upgraded the 4 speed to short throw close ratio. Upgraded the shocks, springs, larger sway bars front and back, and had the leafs re-arched. Pulled the motor and put a stroker kit in it (for non-motor heads this will develop large displacement power in a small displacment engine size). My camaro was now almost worth $10,000. It was picky about the humidity of the air, what kind of oil and gas I put in it, and was a bear to crank on cold days due to “thumper” cam. Was it as fast as a BMW? Yeah…but it took me almost 3 years and constant tinkering to get it to do it….and it will never come close to being as stylish, fun or as dependable as a BMW.
Jay
I think apple hit the nail on the head simply by releasing the Lamp with a quick follow up of the new dual 1-Ghz towers. The Lamp with a combo drive sells cheaply, for what it offers, and if you’re pressed for money or only need a computer for email and word documents, you could just get a G3 imac, even as low as $800. On the other hand, people can also splurge their money on the big-time power of the dual-towers. In other words, apple has covered a wide variety of people, from tightwads, to simplists, to generalists, to show-offs, to power-freaks. If you want a mac, you can get exactly what you need, thanks now to dual-towers and the imac.
Has apple considered making the new “floating screen” removable? So if you wanted to hang it on the wall a few feet from your imac base you could? Just a thought.
Your price is still fiction josh. You forgot not only what jay mentioned, but keyboard, and mouse. As far as “splurging” on a Mac, again, Jay, this is also rediculous. The computer you are comparing his magical 550$ computer to can burn DVDs, which is a much more expensive drive. Not only that, but we are talking large ammounts of software that you simply don’t have. Where is your office package? Where is your movie editing software? Where is your World Book encyclopedia? I’m sorry, but for someone who just writes research papers and checks email, these sound like very important pieces of software to me for anyone who does that, or perhaps I’m completely insane, and stupid of course, someone who has never written a research paper in his life.
Josh, I really don’t care what your preference is in CD-RW speed, the one in the iMac is a 24 10 40, therefore I compared that price. Also, just a tip for arguing a point: If you are going to say that the average user wants to pay less, you are right. If you are then going to counterpoint by saying that a complicated process like putting a computer together is the solution, you haven’t proven your point with a logical path to success. The only logical path to success is the path I presented in my post, buying an already built computer from Dell. Just a tip there. Your path to success would mean that my best idea for buying a car, would be to get the peices I need, and take out of my car what I don’t have, and thus save money. While this is true, I don’t have the skills neccisary to do this, and then again, it probably wouldn’t work even if I did. Your 550$ computer sounds WONDERFUL for you, and in fact, I think that you are right in love with the “deal” you got. Kudos to you for listing only the prices you wanted and totally dodging my post which had already clearly laid out the prices at that precise moment, not over the course of 4 months. Ram is almost double what it was now, and Athlons have droped in price recently, so at any one point, you would have paid more than your magical 550$ number. You are skewing the numbers, the truth, and the facts, which is all I have posted.
As far as Macs being wonderful machines to check email on, I think that your view is biased, and quite frankly, stupid. I program server apps for BSD, Unix and OS X on my Mac, not to mention play some of the newest (and classic) games. I’m very excited about ShadowBane (www.shadowbane.com) comming out as Mac’s first MMORPG! Not only that, I have made numerous personal music videos from video footage using Final Cut Pro. As a programmer, and a computer user, I don’t just check my email, I do plenty. Plenty that I tried to do on my PC before I went mac with limited success.
As far as a heck of a lot of people not knowing how, or what to do with a computer, I believe that the average user has a much better chance at figuring out how to do high quality video editing, or perhaps use an MP3 player, on a Mac. Call me crazy, but easier to use software, good marketing, and online support for this stuff, just maybe, just MAYBE makes them easier to figure out, but then again, maybe I’m completely crazy and should just go to the loony bin right?
And, I think to wrap this one up, I am going to talk about innovation. Mac doesn’t want people who are just going to check email and do research papers. When you buy a macintosh, it challenges you to release your creative potential with a whole array of easy to use apps that everyone can relate to. (Who hasn’t wanted to make a movie, or even burn a DVD of some family gatherings, I meen come ON) Apple wants to take the average user, who is only going to do the things that you have stuck in your mind, and make them real computer users. People who create, and explore that possabilites that a computer brings to the table, and they want to make that transition as easy and simple as possible. If you don’t see this, you have missed the whole point of owning a Mac. I hope that switching out hardware, and constantly upgrading your PC so that “the next big thing” runs on it makes you happy, because our history with PCs dictates that this is the norm every year for PC users.
Here was my shopping list, if you are interested, that I purchased before I went mac. Like I said before, I spent about 5000$ dollars on this in a year to upgrade my PC, and on my mac in a year, only 50, I am 100x happier with the staying power of my PowerMac G4 733.
3dcool uber-tower case with 400watt powersupply. over 300$
2 PIII 800 / 100s ~ 600$, I forget the exact price.
Tyan Tiger 133 mainboard, over 100$
IBM 75GXP 45 gig hdd over 200$
SB Live Plat, and later Plat 5.1 IR – over 500$ total
ATI Radeon AIW – about 250$
Natural Pro – 70$
Explorer mouse 60 $
Windows 2000 – 200$
16x slot in DVD – 100$
after the Tyan failed, because it was a crappy MB, I had to buy a new mainboard, and a new processor because they switched from Slot 1 to FCPGA I oced a 566 celery to 850, and used a thermaltake cooler. This is also missing the CD-RW and SCSI CD-ROM I pulled over from my old PC, and the free monitor I got. All in all, at the end of the year, 5000$ was missing, and I did all the work myself! My Mac with all the software it came with was 5000$ too, and after a year, I am happy to say that the newest games and applications run at blazing speed on my Mac and I see absolutly no reason to upgrade, and millions of new iMac users will feel the same joy. Even tho I WANT a dual Ghz G4, there’s no logical reason…. but I will make one up soon enough. he he he
Viper-X ( Debunking PC tom-foolery for LIFE )
I can argue any results. I’m a Scientist. hehehe
Viper-X (The S in CS is for SCIENCE)
Whoops. I misunderstood your post about checking email. while my point about innovation in Macs still holds, I do believe that anyone writing a research paper on a PC has seen 3 pages of it lost suddenly due to bluescreen. I know my mother complains all the time when her lengthy posts to online forums suddenly dissapears when Windows 2000 (THE BEST WINDOWS EVER!) blue screens. And if you just want to check email, why even by a PC when WebTV costs so much less? I’m sorry about your views of the “average user” and I don’t know where the heck you do tech work, but most PC users I run into are business people who run their business on a computer. While yes, they do check email (and check it well I might add!) the illusion that this is what a PC is for is fading fast, and if that is all the PC market has to hold on to, I pity it. Most people I run into want their PC to do more. Even an XBox can surf the web and check email, and people are realizing this in the millions. Your average user wants to do more, see more, and make more, and simply doesn’t have a clue how. I would love to supe up my Neon with a turbo, like that guy did with his Camero, but I simply don’t have the skills to learn something that complicated. Apple, makes it all easier.
Again, I’m sorry I misread your posts to read that Macs were for checking email. (whoops) I personally don’t think PCs can do anything better than a mac and I challenge you to prove to me that a PC is better at anything other than supporting hordes of bad software (which , surprise surprise people, it’s usually the programmer of the application’s fault that your PC crashed, which only proves that Windows is an unstable OS because applications crashing can crash it. )
Viper-X (Don’t mess with a programmer buddy)
Last summer I had a “Top of the line” Dell running Windows 2000 Pro. I found after having the computer for 6 months that I was constantly plagued with problems. The final straw was when my boot sector was infected with a nasty virus and I was told that I would have to replace my hard drive. Yes I had Norton Antivirus on my computer and it was up to date.
At that moment, after being up all night trying to fix my computer and being on the phone for 3 hours with Dell trying to fix the problem. I had enough. I took the piece of crap computer out in the back yard got my sledge hammer and smashed it to pieces. I swore with every hit that I will get a Mac.
That is exactly what I did. I knew that I would be paying more for it but I also knew that I would be getting a stable machine that most people aren’t going to write a vicious virus for. Not to mention I have found my Mac to be extremely easy to use. Installing new software is as easy as clicking on an icon. Likewise installing new hard ware is just as easy.
When I had my Dell running Windows 2000 Pro. Installing a second hard drive almost took and act of god. Not to mention trying to configure it properly for Windows to recognize it. Installing software was just as troublesome. I will give Microsoft credit for one thing. They finally did away with DOS.
I paid $1499 for my iMac SE and it was worth every penny. For those who think that OS X.1 doesn’t run well on a G3 you are sadly mistaken. I run OS X.1 only on my G3 and have never had a single hick-up nor crash and it doesn’t slow my computer down. With that said, I bid everyone farewell.
Bruce M. Herbertson III
The new iMac G4 is just fine, but not as breakthrough like the new PowerMacs. To really see how apple is doing look at the resale value of the computers. Most macintoshes hold their value better than the pcs.
“Myth 6: Macs are far easier to use than PCs.” Is that so? then why, in the course of my using a PowerMac over the past 3 years, have I had to learn about resource and data forks, the desktop file and the PRAM? Sure – an end user shouldn’t have to know about that stuff – until something breaks! Then you can’t get at the problem if you wanted to, without a 3rd-party utility and the knowledge of what’s wrong. With Windows you’re forced to become familiar with file-type extensions, but at least they’re *visible* and *manageable* from within the OS.
I have recently had problems with the display drivers in OS 9.2.2 which required extracting an earlier set of drivers and dropping them into the Extensions Manager folder. (I know other Mac Users who don’t even know what the Extensions Manager is.) And I also had a logic board failure 3 months ago that degenerated over the space of a week, causing data corruption and requiring a two-week visit at the authorised service centre.
Here’s my point: Mac is just another platform. Although working on both platforms has de-programmed me from being a PC zealot (not that I ever liked Microsoft anyway), I use whichever tool is the easiest to get the job done with.
PS. Windows XP’s boot time has it _all_over_ either Mac OS.
My low-end $799 iMac runs OS X just fine. Thought I’d let ya know.
I have been using Dos, Winodows 98, 2000, ME, and XP. They all suck one way or another. I have 5 Windows machine running at all times at home and they are very fragile when it comes to adding or changing things on them. I can’t tell you how many times I have had to the Micro$oft dance (Control, alt, delete) or the “Format the C Drive?”. My wife has always used Mac and last year I bought her an Imac. It was cute and easy to hook up and started up right out the box. I even tried upgrading the operating system only to find out in horror that I needed the disk and not the download. I though she would kill me for messing up her computer because I though I would have to format her drive. I was releived to find out that I could go back to the original operating system without having to format anything!
Around that time I had to change DSL providers and was without broadband for a couple of months. Her Imac was the only computer with a modem, so naturally I had to use it frequently. I really enjoyed how it performed.
When the new PowerBook came out, I lusted for it and could see myself in public with it but could not bring myself to admit to my wife that the Mac was a better system.
I even tried Linux, boy what a piece crap that was too! It made wish for a Windows machine.
One of my main windows machines became infected and I had to loose all my precious data by reinitializing the hard drive and formating the drive. While I was working on my Windows machine, I happened to look at my wife working on her Imac and realized that she has never had an issue with her machine. That just pissed me off with the whole Windows game.
The new Imac was annouced and I couldn’t help my self. I ordered the new Imac and 2 PowerBooks, one for me and one for my wife.
Since then, I have been enjoying my PowerBook with both Mac OSX and 9.2. I have told all my friends about my new switch and all my colleagues who approach me for guidance on their Windows machine, I simply say “Get a Mac!”
My wife has been kind to me too although she does rub it in with “what took you so long?”
I anxiously waiting for the delivery email on the new Imac too!
This whole issue about competing with pc’s, well I don’t know what the future holds but at least I casted my vote with my green backs. As far as I am concerned, the future looks great because I don’t have to do the Micro$oft dance anymore and I know that my precious data will be safe and sound.
See ya laters Windows blah blah blah!!
I am so tired of listening to windows advocates who think that a $700.00 wintel box is going to be the equal of a Macintosh. It is apparent that they do little of consequence on their computers. I am a musician, and write and arrange music on my Mac G4. I also own an i-mac and an i-book, but am forced to use a PC at the school where I teach music. I have attempted to run music production software on several PC’s at my job, but have had no luck whatsoever, despite having the services of an IT department to help troubleshoot the systems. I finally gave up, and brought my i-mac to work, and when I installed the software, it happily began making music. I agree that to the average user who wants to type a letter or send an e-mail the Mac seems expensive. But all the creative professionals I know agree that ease-of-use does not begin to describe the difference between Wintel boxes and the Macintosh. Although my Mac is not perfect, I have it customized to the way I work, and I actually look forward to sitting down with it and composing.
That feeling is priceless.
Jim
I thought that the iMac would take up less space, it’s still pretty big! I’ve only burned three DVDs so far and I want to know where I can get cheap DVD-RAMs. They are so expensive!
The school I go to is completely hooked up on Airport. The tenth, 11th, and 12th grades get iBooks to use in class. We have laserjets in every class. The school only has one IT specialist and he still has time to teach classes. The only problem is we can’t get a projecctor for the Powerpoint presentations.