Joey Hess has announced the availability of the second beta release of debian-installer. Highlights include better support for PowerPC & IA64 ports, more translations and support for USB devices.
Debian-Installer Beta 2 Released
About The Author
Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
Follow me on Twitter @EugeniaLoli
I have a PowerPC. Too bad I still need a cd burner argh. lol. But What I am curious about, since i use mandrake and not debian, is why they need to beta test this installer. Im guessing their getting rid of their old one but like whats supposed to be new about this one then? is it graphical?
I guess the new stuff is hardware(NIC) auto-detection, support for more filesystems and USB mass storage devices.
But there probably are other stuff as well…
I for one, like the old installer and don’t get how everybody is always complaining about the hard installation process of debian. It’s minimalisic and it works!
more native support for internet configurations in the installer! PPPOE is a good example of it, specially now that it comes supported inside the kernel
I to like the current debian installer but i will not complain about better hardware detection — i always have pangs of jealousy when i watch a RedHat/Suse/Knoppix user just ‘plug things in’ before and after an install. Also this installer has bootable cdrom/net install support which is a nice improvement over creating boot floppys and should make it clearer for first time debian users.
-greg
‘SCO ate my sig’
I think the new installer will make things a lot less confusing. At the moment when you go to the debian website its not clear at all how to actually get hold of the thing. You have the option of buying it, when it’s cheaper and quicker to just download and burn the ISOs yourself. You have the option to download dodgy bob’s net install image, but it’s not even clear if it works or else the download link is dead. With the debian installer all you need do is download, burn and install. Simple
just some centralized way to tell people what “group of packages” one needs to get a certain task done.
I’m still researching on how to get my wireless ethernet working on my m50 precision laptop.
every other distro, it just worked.
i’ve manually modprobed countleses drivers, manually added pcmcia support, upgraded the kernel using the packaged images…etc etc etc.
i also hate having to “apt-get install” package after package, working my way up to a decent kde/gnome setup.
why is there no option to “apt-get install kde-heavy”, “apt-get install kde-medium”, or “apt-get install kde-light”
> why is there no option to “apt-get install kde-heavy”,
> “apt-get install kde-medium”, or “apt-get install kde-light”
Maybe you should use FreeBSD. It contains the normal kde *AND* kde-lite as you described.
The problem is each user is going to disagree about what should be in kde-heavy, kde-medium, and kde-light. I think the current system of providing meta packages like kde and gnome that include most of the stuff except for translations works fine. If you want a really slim installation just install the packages you need. If you want most everything except for a few install the meta packages and then remove what you don’t want.
Hi
If you switch to freebsd just because of this you are dumb. such meta packages are available from apt-get.org
Can these meta packages be used to remove anything they’ve installed? If I were to install kde with apt-get install kde. Could I just remove it all with apt-get remove debian?
Errr, I obviously meant apt-get remove kde.
“Can these meta packages be used to remove anything they’ve installed?”
This is up to the package maintainer. It is a simple technique to make all the packages in a metapackage dependent on the metapackage. In this case, apt-get remove metapackage would automatically demand the removal of all member packages as well. For example, the guy who maintains the CVS packages for KDE makes them dependent on a metapackage called kde-cvs-snapshot for easy removal.
Most maintainers, however, don’t choose to do this. The reason is that a package might have been needed/recommended by other metapackages as well. As such, metapackages are more useful for installation of packages than for removal of packages. Only a few clear-cut situations (like kdecvs) can really do anything to make removal complete and simple. Changes have been discussed, but not everyone is sure it’s a worthwhile complication. It would cause a lot more prompting in the apt-get process, which is blessedly simple at the moment. And, especially on a Debian system, it’s not like the extra packages are causing problems or creating security holes that you have to take time to patch manually.
I heard that there was a project to port anaconda to debian. I don’t know if this is it, but whatever.
I think that Debian needs a nice graphical installer and better hardwar detection for me to use it. Until then, I’m stuck with RPM.
I heard that there was a project to port anaconda to debian. I don’t know if this is it, but whatever.
Nah – Progeny is doing it:
http://platform.progeny.com/anaconda/
That will be the installer to watch I think. Making Debian as easy to install as RH/Fedora should make its usage go up.
>> But What I am curious about, since i use mandrake and not debian, is why they need to beta test this installer. Im guessing their getting rid of their old one but like whats supposed to be new about this one then? is it graphical?
It will have a graphical front-end (it’d be nice if it work like YaST, where you can use a Curses or a Qt frontend (GTK in case of Debian probably)). There are some screenshots on the Debian website, but I can’t access them.
it’d be nice if it work like YaST, where you can use a Curses or a Qt frontend (GTK in case of Debian probably)
I meant to say:
it’d be nice if it work like YaST, where you can use a Curses or a Qt frontend (GTK in case of Debian probably) and still use exactly the same tools
I’ve used Debian based distros before, such as Libranet. I found them easy to use, but also easily breakable. Everytime I would invariably make the system unusable after about a month when using apt-get. I don’t trust apt-get and now I am happily back to a REAL port based system, FreeBSD 5.1.
I don’t think I’ll be going back to Debian, installer or not, anytime soon.
Count me in as one who likes the current installer. I have not tried this new one though. The best one I have seen though, and this is my own opinion, is the FreeBSD one. Once youve gottten used to it, you can install a minimal system in a very few steps.
you know, I thought the same thing, until I tried the new installer……
I have to tell you, hardware detection is a MUST. configuring modules is long and tedious.
mattK:
you found apt-get easily to be easily breakable? I’ve never had any problems whatsoever, and I use apt extensively. This includes a few dist-upgrades, and running a mixed testing/unstable system.
From my own experience (not necessarily true for everyone), apt is fairly robust. from time to time there will be a small dependency problem you’ll have to solve manually, but most of the time things are just fine.
The only very big problem I ran into was when the apt db got corrupted because of a bad memory module. But this has nothing to do with debian:-)
The only problems I have ever had with apt-get happened when I was running unstable (sid). Of course, that’s not so much apt’s fault as mine for wanting to be bleeding edge. I’ve never had a problem with testing (sarge).
I’d like to confess that I too have broken a system by using apt-get. Upgrading lilo is what got me most, but I’ve messed up a couple of times just by getting the wrong command when an install fails, and accidentally having a whole load of packages try to install again and then fail at the same point and so on…
“Can these meta packages be used to remove anything they’ve installed?”
Yes, If you install them with aptitude instead of apt-get.
aptitude functions similar to apt-get and can do almost all the same features and you get the bonus features of keeping track of unused packages. So if a package is installed because a meta package depends on it when you remove the meta-package the packages that only used by that meta-package are removed as well.
My adivce: use aptitude instead of apt-get
next time you are installing a meta-package use ‘aptitude install ….’ instead of ‘apt-get install …”
and…..there comes APT-FU
try it!!!
>I’ve used Debian based distros before, such as Libranet. I
>found them easy to use, but also easily breakable. Everytime
>I would invariably make the system unusable after about a
>month when using apt-get.
I’d blame Libranet and other “debian based” distros for that.
I’ve heard dozens of stories about them not functioning with
standard debian repositories. Unless you are using actualy
debian you probably have to stick to whichever vendor’s
release schedule for upgrades.
a relatively simple pipelined command to remove KDE:
(I just tested it)
export COLUMNS=200 && apt-get remove `dpkg -l *kde* | grep ii | awk ‘{print $2}’`
a lot of people dont know about the COLUMNS variable to set the column width of the package listing (the “dpkg -l” part).
With reference to KDE: the only package you need to install is kdelibs (apt-get will fetch the dependencies). After that, you can just install packages one at a time, like “apt-get install konqueror”. Or, you can install groups of packages at a time, like “apt-get install kdenetwork”.
I think SID has meta packages for GNOME at least – but there’s a problem with moving them to Testing that I don’t fully understand (probably because something keeps breaking randomly so they can’t move the entire thing down)
Also, debs from eg. apt-get.org might cause some unstability since they are not official packages. I use some of them, but if I run in to trouble with kde packages not from official debian repository, I’ll have to live with it. Bad me for wanting the bleeding edge. KDE 3.2 will hit the unstable one day anyway (and please, no ranting about the delay it might have, I’m sure it will be for a reason)
I also have had some serious problems with apt-get & dpkg, due to corrupted dpkg database (/var/lib/dpkg/available). But after doing some ‘man dpkg’ I found out solution:
dpkg –clear-avail
and then just running apt-get update got me back to business.
A release as simple as KDE 3.1.5 (a bugfix only release) goes into unstable almost immediately. About half of KDE 3.1.5 was in unstable before the official KDE announcement even took place.
If you want to know why it takes a while for new KDE releases to go into unstable there are a couple of reasons. First is that KDE continuously reorganizes and renames things. There are hundreds if not thousands of files that have changed between KDE 3.1 and 3.2. Also since Debian is about to release sarge new buggy programs such as KDE 3.2.0 are probably not going to be allowed into unstable until after the release. However, I will probably upload KDE 3.2.0 to the Debian experimental repo so that people can easily get it off mirrors.
<quot>I’d like to confess that I too have broken a system by using apt-get.</quot>
well
I have been typing ‘sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade’ twice a week for over the year now.
When some packages have had (hardly ever) broken dependeces,
I follow up my request next day and everything is just fine.
aaaa..
I forgot,
my distribution.
It’s been unstable, and since last november it is experimrntal
i’have tried to install debian on IBM xseries but
now whitout blade images i can’t install it because lack
of support for fusion scsi
“…why they need to beta test this installer. Im guessing their getting rid of their old one but like whats supposed to be new about this one then? is it graphical?”
The existing ‘installer’ (sic) is waaayy ou of date.
It’s crude illogical, inflexible, does litle HW detection & even less configuration.
It really forces you to hand install for the most part.
A tiny percentage of the world (teenage geeks) still think this is a Good Thing(TM), but hey it’s the year twenty oh four for christ sakes, time to move on..
Bug fixes surely are promptly in repository. A while ago when 3.0 had it’s trouble, I was following the debian progress of kde 3. This is why I said that _if_ it delays, it will be for a reason.
It would be super great if the 3.2 would be in experimental! I have been waiting for that.. Now I had to settle to some apt-get.org’s, but they are not very compatible with official debian qt packages etc.
>I think that Debian needs a nice graphical installer and >better hardwar detection for me to use it. Until then, I’m >stuck with RPM.
————————–
You might check out Mepis linux ( http://www.mepis.org ). It’s based on Debian,and can run as a Live CD,a la Knoppix, but it also comes with a very competent graphical installer for installing to your hard drive. (Did I mention hardware auto-detection is excellent?). There is also a second CD full of debian packages you can install without having to download, in case you’re on dial-up or have limited bandwidth to the Internet.
The installer includes QtParted, a graphical hard drive partitioning tool that lets you decide where Mepis goes and what partitions it uses. It does the same job as old standbys fdisk and cfdisk, but the GUI makes it as easy to use as commercial programs like Partition Magic.
When you’re done installing, you have a nicely configured and tweaked Debian system, completely compatible with all those Debian repositories out there. Mepis is only at it’s second release, I believe, but it’s of amazingly high quality, and includes thoughtful touches such as Kmail coming pre-configured to work with SpamAssassin to help keep spam out of your inbox. It also uses a sane versioning system based on the year and month of release; the version I’m using is 2003.10 .
I’m typing this on a Mepis box right now; in a addition to the usual generic PC hardware (Athlon XP 1600+, ECS board, IDE drives, CD-RW drive, etc, etc), I have an Epson Perfection 1260 USB scanner, a Wacom Graphire graphics tablet, and a Nikon Coolpix 995 digital camera, all of which work perfectly under Mepis (though some manual tweaking of config files was needed for the scanner and Wacom tablet). I also have my first sucessfull Wine install, with PhotoShop 5.5 running well using Wine. (I haven’t used Windows myself in over two years, my wife still uses it because she needs to continue using some Windows apps, so I’m motivated to find ways to run all her required Windows apps on Linux. If I can do that successfully, I no longer have to maintain her Win98 box!).
Try Mepis; it’s not flashy like Lycoris or Xandros, but it has a way of sneaking up on you as you start to see the level of quality built into the distribution. This was not thrown together by someone making YALD (Yet Another Linux Distro). This was lovingly created by a man (Warren Woodford) who wants to create a high quality, well integrated distro. It’s not perfect, of course (my pet dislike: the distro uses stock KDE menus, which are so overloaded with numerous entries as to make them almost unuseable). But its already amazingly good, on only its second release version.
-Gnobuddy
I’m still researching on how to get my wireless ethernet working on my m50 precision laptop.
Did you remember to enable ISA support when you compiled your kernel?