“To what extent did alleged pressures from Microsoft Corp. deter PC makers from bundling Linux on desktops and servers? According to Michael Tiemann, chief technology officer at Red Hat Inc., the pressure had a lot to do with the lack of Linux penetration among OEMs.” Read the rest of the report at ExtremeTech. Red Hat’s claims are similar to Be’s.
Red Hat: Microsoft Quashed Interest in Linux
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Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
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Has it ever occurred to you that maybe it’s the fact that your Linux *sucks* that “has kept PC makers from bundling it”? We have common department stores like Fry’s and WalMart selling PC’s without any OS at all, even though Linux is *free* and they could include it at little additional expense. Yet they still choose to sell it with no OS at all. Why do you think this is? Is this because Linux is “suppressed” by Microsoft? No, it’s because they don’t want a whole pc being returned to them for refund just because you need a compass and protractor to use the unruly Linux OS. Get it through your heads, you Linux wackos, the customer doesn’t want to study your OS for weeks and months and become an expert at it before he can use it for simple tasks.
He might not have said it in the most diplomatic fashion though;) But what I’d like to see is some more concrete proof before I eat up the words of redhat and their likes. Has Microsoft really done anything more than any other company would have done? Have they crossed the line between marketing and monopoly? Do you actually know they have? Give me proof.
Microsoft wants to sell their OS, they make their OS for these markets and for companies. They bundle, they make their OS easier to use (I haven’t had to compile a kernel to Windows yet, I know very well how to, I’ve worked professionally with OSes, still I prefer not to), they make deals with hardware wendors to support their OS. Players like nVidia and AMD have made good profits from Microsoft, they live on them.
And who will you turn to when your Linux based OS (it’s just Linux based, it’s a kernel, give it a rest! KDE is way more important than Linux) screws up? The community who won’t really help just anyone. That is why there needs to be a strong big solid company behind an OS to be sold (not given away) with warrenties.
If I am wrong about Linux, prove me wrong, don’t argue that I am wrong.
LISTEN UP GEEKS… THIS IS A REALITY CHECK… LINUX IS HARD… IT’S REALLY HARD FOR ME… SO WAS WINDOWS 3.11… AND WHY DOESN’T MY MOTHER LOVE ME… THERE’S NOT POSSIBLE REASON NOT TO INSTALL A FREE OPERATING SYSTEM ASIDE FROM ONGOING SUPPORT AND INSTALLATION TIME FROM SELLING ANY ADDITIONAL FEATURE…
GNOME and KDE require expensive hardware to run smoothly
nowadays and need continous tweaking.
BeOS didn’t support the expensive hardware which digital
artists needed for their professional work.
If Linux is failing as a desktop OS and if BeOS
failed as a Media OS, it’s not M$’s fault.
I can understand how a company can die when they don’t sell a product, but the Linux/BSD OS is more about the number of developers and they’re only growing in number.
What does “failing” desktop mean to you?
Your right it’s not only the fault of MS that BeOS failed. But a fact is, that only geeks are installing OS’s and they are a minority. So most of the computer-buyers are just running the OS which was installed when they bought the computer and are running the programms which are included. And they normally don’t install an alternativ programm like an Internet-Explorer when they have already installed one.
Thomas
I’m just tired of people which tell me, is this and that supported on your OS or is this and that running on your OS or can I run Win progs on your OS ? And on the other hand they are complaining about MS, but they won’t try or at least support an other OS with 100bucks !!!!!
What are these people thinking, that every SW and HW company just support every new OS ? First there must be big Userbase. So keep your Win-machine and don’t complain about it or give a new OS a chance !!!!
Thomas
If linux is so worse as you say it is. Why not let people try it, and find out themself? Its just about freedom to choice.
Even when you don’t like linux it is good for you to support it because it gives microsoft a reason to increase there support and “inovation”, and they cannot increase there prices to much.
I like linux and I use it for 2 years now for my daily use.
It gets beter every month. Maybe you have to try it again
you don’t have to compile your kernel anymore. I never did.
I also use windows for my games. It’s a great gamesOS
And I use MacOS on my work.
(sorry for my bad english it’s not my native language)
1 GNU is SIMPLE if you want it simple (Ximian?Lycoris? hmm)
2 You can build your system as good as you want.
3 You can learn by yourself doing it or pay someone to teach you or make everything for you.
4 GNOME2 and KDE3 _may_ require some pc power, but is’t an issue, you won’t pay the software so you can buy better hw, and anyway tell me that a windoze can even run on a not so recent system…
5 if you want speed you can use blackbox, wm or other windows manager and use the application that you need w/out a DE under.
GNU let you choose what you want, MS don’t.
Thats not true thoems people will install stuff not included on their computer, even if they have something similar on their pc. My first computer came with ie only, but I went out of my way to get netscape (cause it was better). It took all night on my 28.8 modem but I got it. You know why though? Cause to install after I downloaded was a couple of clicks, no rebuilding the kernel, no making lists of where it installed to in case I wanted to uninstall, no making sure it was compiled for my distro. Also the only people I know who complain about ms are linux geeks, bsd geeks, beos geeks or mac geeks. No one else gives a flying f through a rolling donut. If an alternate os paid attention to what people want in their computing experiance they could compete with ms, even if people had to find them (cause their are non-geeks who aren’t 100% happy with windows and would switch if you gave them compelling reasons, other than ranting about “unfair” practices). Make it easy to use, easy to update (hardware, drivers and software), easy to install software (double click then pick a folder and its installed) and either port the most popular software (currently family tree stuff, cheap games (barbie, millionare, etc), digital video stuff, etc) or write it from scratch and easy to understand (I’m sorry but windows file system makes a ton more sense than linux, if you know the name of a programs maker you can find the install directory in 2 seconds). If linux, be, amiga or apple did all that they would have a much larger market share. Until someone does all that ms will continue to control the market and all the bemoaning of; its unstable, its not secure, its slow, its not fair; won’t dislodge them. All redhat (and netscape and sun and be)’s whining does is make them look like 3 year olds, which btw is not the image you want to convey to potential customers. Rant over.
95 % of the (home)users are Joe Doe. They want to surf , email, play mp3 and occassionally write a letter. So Linux will cover their needs and almost
any other non windows system will do.
In 10 minutes that story is told. You dont need to be an expert to do that kinda
jobs.
______________________________________________________________
Compare it to this example.
I play clarinet as an amateur. That is what I like. I know how to play and
I don’t want to have an overload of knowlegde like a professional has.
I simply want to play clarinet in a very basic form.
______________________________________________________________
<blockquote>All redhat (and netscape and sun and be)’s whining does is make them look like 3 year olds, which btw is not the image you want to convey to potential customers. Rant over.</blockquote>Hell. Yes.
1 GNU is SIMPLE if you want it simple (Ximian?Lycoris? hmm)
GNU isn’t simple, every distro does something that makes no sense.
2 You can build your system as good as you want.
You can do the same with windows (my current system I built myself, same with my last one and all my friend’s).
3 You can learn by yourself doing it or pay someone to teach you or make everything for you.
Same with windows, only if you want to learn by yourself its easier (less retraining if you switch distros (or in windows case versions too).
4 GNOME2 and KDE3 _may_ require some pc power, but is’t an issue, you won’t pay the software so you can buy better hw, and anyway tell me that a windoze can even run on a not so recent system…
The only reason kde and gnome continue to be 100% free is because they know if they tried to make a buck most of the hardcore linux geeks (ie the give me something for free now people) would quit using their products. btw the money savings on software couldn’t buy much hardware (especially since some *good* software has to be bought).
5 if you want speed you can use blackbox, wm or other windows manager and use the application that you need w/out a DE under.
Yes and make it even more niche and harder to get software/hardware to work on your computer, great idea for newbies
GNU let you choose what you want, MS don’t.
But if the only choices are slow (most newbie linuxes) or too hard (most advanced linuxes) and non intuitive (most linuxes from a converting from windows stand point) then the only choice is windows.
Sure linux can do that, but does joe doe really want to have to mount his cd every time he wants to rip tunes? Or if they want to research their family tree (btw the most popular software this last holiday season was family tree maker, at least at the software store I worked at) they can’t cause their isn’t a linux program that can do it (or a mac one that I know of anyway). Or what if billie wants to hop on aol, well billy can’t, sorry kid daddy bought linux so you can use aol, or play any games, or get a damn encyclopedia for that matter.
First I have to say that I’m not using Linux anymore. Because of the same reason you are listing (complicate andsoon). I switched to OS X.
You really think the file-system on Win is easy ?
On BeOS for example there was a folderstructur which was selfexplaining. Not like on Win where everything is in the Windows-folder, especally stuff like progs which don’t have to be in the system-folder.
Have you ever used apple, Be, RiscOS or some other OS? Because installing on BeOS and Apple is as easy (or easyier)as it is on Win. You can also move every prog after installing in every folder you like, can you do that on Win ?
And about the installing issue, I was just refering to my experince with my familie, my friends and my Working-Collegues.
Thomas
I’ve used be and I loved what I saw but since it doesn’t support my nic (thus my dsl) I had to wave goodbye. The reason I like the windows file system is this, most programs (ie 99% of em) put themself in the programs folder (which makes sense) and I also like the fact you can’t move files willy nilly because it makes it harder to uninstall (yes I like the registry, heresy to most alterante os fans I know), I btw don’t use the default folder for most programs when I install them (I have my own system), but because of the registry updating and uninstalling is easy. I do agree that be’s install is a snap (at least the one dependent on windows was). There are a few reasons I’m still not an apple fan (I’ve used mostly pre os X, so thats mostly what I’m going to mention, I don’t like X for other reasons I’ll mention later), the moving progs is one of the reasons, when I went to college (my last attempt anyway ;p) I worked in the main bookstores receiving room, and I had to use an imac, which not only was unstable and slow had the same programs installed in several locations (ie had 6 installs, because people moved it). Granted that isn’t a problem if your the only one to use a computer, but my computer is used by myself, my mom (who can’t use the satalite properly half the time), my brother (who doesn’t care to learn computers), my roomate (his pc is faster, but since he won’t chip in on dsl he has to use my comp to go online), 1 friend who’s in business college (his pc at home doesn’t have office and he has no internet access), and 3 other friends for various things. They all save stuff to folders that weren’t meant for the items they’re saving (ie pictures in my downloads directory instead of their directory under pictures) so I’d hate to give them free reign on programs. I don’t like X because tying it to *nix seems like a.) a copout (*nix is more popular than us and we could use all their hardwork and make money off it) and b.) an attempt to attach themselves to anything but ms (which still owns stock btw so anyone who uses mac to not pay bill is failing).
btw marco no need to apologize for your lack of a complete grasp on english, I may be an oppionated ass but I will never attack someone for not having the best english (especially someone who isn’t *native* to it), and I don’t think anyone on these boards would attack you (well maybe a linux geek would (jk)).
I would point out that recompiling the kernel is pretty much agreed upon by everyone I’ve talked to, if you want your system to run at its peak (other wise it leaves all this unused code in the kernel which makes linux sluggish, in some cases it makes it slower than windows (it did in mine)). btw ms increasing prices wouldn’t bother me much, hardware is where most dollars are spent, and their prices are going way up (for gaming stuff). Take video cards for example, I have a tnt2 Ultra, when I got it it was $250 and the most expensive graphics card on the market (give or take a couple bucks) now the top end game graphics card (geforce 4 ti 500 or whatever) is $400 (or is it $500), meanwhile windows is still $100 for an upgrade. Last point (I promise) you say “Why not let people try it”, well they can, they can download it for free or they can spend like $5 and get it from cheap bytes, no one is stopping them. ms won’t send people to their house if they try it, windows won’t make their pc self destruct, nothing will happen to them (hell if someone really wants linux and has a slow connection I’m sure they could ask a linux user with a fast connection and a cd burner to download it and burn them a copy for cost (cost of blank cds + shipping), I’d do it and I don’t even use linux anymore). So the lacking opportunity argument, imo, is bs.
1 GNU is SIMPLE if you want it simple (Ximian?Lycoris? hmm)
GNU isn’t simple, every distro does something that makes no sense.
-Explain
2 You can build your system as good as you want.
You can do the same with windows (my current system I built myself, same with my last one and all my friend’s).
-Remove MS middleware may taken as licence infringement as well fixing some bugs…
3 You can learn by yourself doing it or pay someone to teach you or make everything for you.
Same with windows, only if you want to learn by yourself its easier (less retraining if you switch distros (or in windows case versions too).
-The only way to learn something on win32 is disasm it or find documentation from people that did it before and that is a licence infringement.
-I know a bit of gnu and linux, switching distro mean to me locate the config script I want to nuke and compile the stuff I need…
4 GNOME2 and KDE3 _may_ require some pc power, but is’t an issue, you won’t pay the software so you can buy better hw, and anyway tell me that a windoze can even run on a not so recent system…
The only reason kde and gnome continue to be 100% free is because they know if they tried to make a buck most of the hardcore linux geeks (ie the give me something for free now people) would quit using their products. btw the money savings on software couldn’t buy much hardware (especially since some *good* software has to be bought).
-OpenOffice vs MSOffice? Gnumeric vs Excel?winXP vs any distro?
I have bandwith, software cost me about 0.60 euro for the CDr to boot up the Os the first time, then is just download compile and install. Have the same I have will cost me a *bit*.
Just to list some : a C compiler + IDE, an OfficeAutomation suite, a 2d graphic tool, a 3d modeler, a DVD-Multimedia player, a CDr tools, any networking tool and service, Loads of programming tutorials and documentation, loads of easy of use library.
I pay just the time to have it and install.
Using the MS, most time buggy, similar will take me more time and more money, and I’d have the same warranty (read the EULA…).
5 if you want speed you can use blackbox, wm or other windows manager and use the application that you need w/out a DE under.
Yes and make it even more niche and harder to get software/hardware to work on your computer, great idea for newbies
-Why? Because you have just a menu that you can cast from everywhere? Because you have docking icons instead have them on the desktop?
I started with enlightenment and I’m still using it most time, I made my sister learn how to login and run application and she had no particular problem, now I’m moving to gnome2 waiting for e17.
GNU let you choose what you want, MS don’t.
But if the only choices are slow (most newbie linuxes) or too hard (most advanced linuxes) and non intuitive (most linuxes from a converting from windows stand point) then the only choice is windows.
-What you get is good and intuitive, just take it w/out prejudices.
mount cd??? that was 6 months ago. “They” have automated that issue.
So please if you write about it … verify before you down nonsence
Before you know linux will run on your desktop. It is time for a change.
Monoculture/Monopoly will collapse in the end.
Somebody mentioned Fry’s Electronics earlier .. a friend of mine got a PC over the weekend from there with Linux preinstalled, so it’s not like you can’t get one if you really want one.
Personally, I don’t think MS had a thing to do with Linux being a joke on the desktop – it fails on its own merits. BeOS might’ve had a shot (I’ve not personally used it but I hear great things about it), but Linux is just doomed on the desktop either with or without MS interference, so it really matters not.
And I laugh at pundets who say that Linux is ready for Joe User and then turn around and tell somebody else that if they want their soundcard to work, they need to recompile the kernel with sound support .. LMAO!
These kind of people have obviously spent no time at all doing technical support for the average consumer. If you even so much as mentioned the word ‘kernel’ or ‘/etc’ or ‘tarball’, it’s all over and there’s no turning back.
Hell, it’s hard enough trying to get the average Joe to find the damn Start button in Windows, so you think they’re going to manage with Linux?
And I laugh at the people who suggest that I throw my weight behind Linux even if it isn’t quite up to par, simply because it’s not Microsoft. I’m sorry, but I don’t play that way. You give me something that’s worth two shits, gives me the eays of use, productivity, application support (which includes the family trees, the encyclepedias, the map software, educational apps, etc), and support for all the latest whiz-bang hardware, then I will pay attention.
Until then, don’t even waste my time.
This debate has been carried on for what seems like ages. Those who speak negatively about Windows here are simply speaking from either prejudice or arrogance.
Don’t get me wrong, I want to be Windows free, but I feel that the hard-core “Linux geeks,” as they’re called, are pushing me back with their didactic idealism.
Linux is not failing on the desktop, but it is far from ready and if you don’t believe that you’re blind. A “user” must be treated as they are – like people who know nothing about computer who don’t find them intuitive. I don’t care what you say – my granfather would not find Windows Maker or Blackbox easy to use – even I don’t! We can have this debate in about 7 years: that’s the time frame I believe will pass until Linux is a true competitor. Look around, times are exciting, distros like Lycoris and Mandrake are doing a lot to make Linux more accessible, but it’s all still obscure on the whole.
Until then, take a look at Windows 2000 and tell me why it’s not a great OS. Show me anyone who uses Linux who can’t figure out Windows – I could show you a thousand vice versa… I tell you, Microsoft might lock you out of your own OS config, but maybe if Linux did that they could standardize a little bit and not require you to be a programmer to get your system optimized.
Stay tuned – it’s …JUST …GETTING …INTERESTING!
well, that was dull.
[quote]And I laugh at pundets who say that Linux is ready for Joe User and then turn around and tell somebody else that if they want their soundcard to work, they need to recompile the kernel with sound support .. LMAO![/quote]
Any distro install from cd has a pretty extensive list of drivers already compiled to make things like this easier. Sure the occasional recompile takes a little time, and those of us that do it often enough have have written shell scripts to recompile things like nvidia drivers and alsa ‘to match’ but the avergae user would -never- experience this.
Whats more of a pain in the ass?
linux: ‘modprobe emu10k1’
windows: *new hardware found*
*next*
*have disk*
*browse*
shit don’t have them yet.
*cancel*
go to the site and download them
*update driver*
*next*
*havedisk*
*browse*
*WINDOWS THINKS THE DRIVER YOU ALREADY HAVE IS BETTER*
*install anyway*
“You must now reboot to continue.*
‘ambiguous ‘ok’ button’
think think think
*OK*
*Shutting down windows* (fsck!@)
reboot. hardware still flaky.
“oh there is a question mark next to the device. “Update driver”
*next*
*browse*
ad nauseum
Sure with some hardware it works fine but it’s still a six or seven step wizard process then a reboot vs a single command.
I’ll take modprobe any day.
I have a friend of 66. He is not a computer guru,
just a physicist. Once he has found that he needs
to use a program that can be easily installed in
Linux/UNIX but not in Windoze. After I have installed
Mandrake 8.1 for him, he has spent just two or three
days to look thru the necessary HOWTOs and began
working by successfully installing a complicated prog
that needed compilation!
Approximately once in a month he asks me
smth like: How can I share my Linux folder to my
coworker who is running Windoze? And that’s all!!
BTW, Mandrake 8.x looks just great in comparison
with all Windoze the world ever seen–starting from
the installation procedure and on!
Maybe Be would of failed just as badly without MS’s intervention, the point is they did interfer and now we’ll never know what would of happened.
The barriers to entry in the OS market are
1)Software
2)Hardware support
3)People willing to buy it
4)Actually making it good
Be already had 4 covered, their technology was impressive.
More people would of been willing to buy it if an OEM was supporting them
And the hardware support is a non issue with OEM as all the machines are mass produced exactly the same, so as long as there are drivers for the particular hardware then its fine.
And 1 would of come with the increased user base/profile of an OEM deal. It wouldn’t inhibit the OEM deal because it was dual boot so they would use windows aswell for things which didn’t have a Be inquivilent.
To conclude, Be had all the barriers covered as best they could untill MS stamped on the OEM deals. Even if it wasn’t enough, thats not the issue, the issue is whether MS artificially increased the barriers to entry, and the answer is fairly clear. I belive Be has a right to whinge.
I don’t know why so many of you protect MS’s behavior. Fact, no major computer manufacturer offers users a choice of OS on their desktop. for all you Beos and linux bashers, doen’t that seem a bit strange. You get choices on the processor, the soundcards, the video card etc, even with the application software. STill you’ll find no major OEM that will give you the choice for a non-MS OS? Why could that be. No demand right? Or wrong how would you really know if they never even tried. Why can’t you get a dual boot PC, say with linux and windows. No demand again right? But again how many people have even had a chance to buy it. Not every product sells off the shelfs the moment they are introduced, as you MS protectors seem to believe but that doesn’t mean that they should be kept entirely from the shelves as MS has done. There are lots of mass market products that started out as niches, lets see maybe like the PC, windows, cell phones etc. Should they all have been snubbed because on day one they didn’t have mass market demand. Or did they at least have the right to be marketed and distributed. Bottom line alternative PC operating systems don’t have the right to be marketed or distribued because a foul agent, MS, is disturbing the true fee market economics.
You MS protectors just don’t get it do you. Market share does not put you above the law. There are laws for a reason you know and MS continuously breaks them. Yet The MS chorus sings on cue blaming the ineptitude of everyone else. Guys get a clue MS broke the law and will continue to do it until they are stopped.
RedHat’s just whinning. What do you exspect when you go against an established player in the OS market??? and the linux zelots really don’t help. joe blow want’s a computer that works, the whole windows is crap with crashing and such is no longer workable with xp (it’s been five days for me and still no crash) and when I installed it guess what??? everything worked out of the box network,sound,video not one problem has happend yet. now when the average person sees this what OS do you see them chooseing? Although I agree M$ has some real issues i.e. security,licencing fees things like that but for the average home user they are not a problem. Why else would amazon,google and so on switch?? Linux will never own the home user (ok linux zelots you got that??) so please stop the bashing anyone making a counter point. the real goods is in the bulk selling to busness and in that M$ will lose there so I think maybe in say 10 years linux (or something else you never know) could be king. and when I say xp is good I mean the corp. pro. version
If Linux was soo bad, than why is Microsoft shitting in it pants? On numerous occassions top MS folks have stated that Linux is their #1 enemy! On the other hand I know that most Linux bashers on OSNews are just disgruntled BeOS users, hahaha.
Woow, this is like a religious war! It, you know, reminds of the incredible nonsense going on between Arab and Jewish fanatics in the middleast: people murdering and plundering and fighting over .. what??? .. a piece of geography, or a piece of superstitious history?
Slow down people, this is not religion. I think the legal talk coming from Redhat is crap. But you have to be ignorant to think that the average user cannot install, browse, do email, play music, or do other everyday things on his linux box. Compile your kernel?? Geez, when last did you use linux?
Why are people comparing the current windows to the current linux/be/os2/amiga, wouldn’t it be better so compare what windows was when linux/Be/OS2 ect.started and where they might be now! Or as in MS case (because they had more money ect.) use illegal (the OEM licenses)to make sure their lead stayed and at the same time criple others from even racing.
If Windows was where its at today and Linux/Be/OS2 was where they’re at today hell Yes MS should have won,but they weren’t! It’s is saying the winning justifies the means (and its pretty clear many of the Business pratices where illegal since they now changed or where forced to change them)but they won so who cares if it was illegally.
***It’s a great Moral I want to teach my son!***
if you love linux. shut up and don’t show you are immature. you’re hurting the rest of us. every linux user out there should be smart enough to know better. that’s all.
In the case you don’t know, companies like Walmart who do sell PCs without OS, STILL make you pay for Windows in some way. That had been said before (and proven), so why people forgot about this?
A reason why they don’t install linux on a PC “without” OS is because they don’t know how. They would be required to “think”, which is costly, and Walmart-like cies don’t want to afford this kind of overhead costs. How many computer technicians are out there that don’t even know a thing about computers and are “giving advice” to your mother, an elderly or a school kid? It amazes me everytime when I hear their stupid answers. Why would they promote linux when they know that when they “sell” a blind OS like Windows, they are sure that this customer will come back because of a bad reboot cycle that f*cked up all his/her computer. That’s more money for the company, so perhaps more money for them too. Why install an OS that will required someone to improve his/her skills and be better for tomorrow computer-world, when you can keep them in the dark and make sure that they’ll always “need your advice”. That’s slavery if you think about it.
The other reason, is that big companies don’t buddle it before shipping them, because, “hooo”, their afraid of retaliation from M$. This is the hammer that stop it all. When that tyranic and despotic behavior that M$ promote will be finally removed from our face, you’ll see that many companies that didn’t have the money to fight M$, will begin to ship our lovely linux OS for the regular end-user: your mom, you kid brother and all, and customized for easy/productivity use.
In the mean time, I praise those linux geeks everywhere who continue, like me, to spread the word, to find solution for replacement, to demonstrate THAT IT IS POSSIBLE to use something else beside M$. We are lucky to have all those developpers that can work magic with a command line and pave the way for the rest of us who just want to “click it away”. Together, we stand united!
Windows will continue to dominate the desktop and without proper checks will eventually take over the server market as well. Reducing the Unices and co to prehistoric OSes.
I don’t think Linux is the answer to the Desktop.
Linux is bloated with 1000’s of crappy useless programs.
Open source good. Free not good.
> And I laugh at pundets who say that Linux is ready for Joe User and then turn around and tell somebody else that if they want their soundcard to work, they need to recompile the kernel with sound support .. LMAO!
Eh? I just put a new soundcard in – it was recognised on boot up, and worked perfectly with no “hand editing config files”, no obscure CLI commands and definitely no kernel recompiles. Please get your facts right.
>Until then, don’t even waste my time.
sounds like your wasting enough already
The only real way to beat windows is to play another game. That is what sony is doing with the play station and what symbian can do with the cell phone industry. Both are taking devices for other purposes building a development community and business model around them and then extending that to include the main PC function (the web). They will continue to do so. It really is time for a disruptive technology in this industry. You don’t need a 1.8 GHz P4 with 256 M RAM to surf the web. A cheap web pad perhaps running Palm or symbian would do the trick as long as you use your landline (wired) connection. The real inhibitor to success in these markets is display cost and technology.
Maybe this sounds lame, but I have computers for more than 20 years and the only thing that thrills me at the moment is OSX. Linux is getting too heavy for an average pc,so tends XP. Linux is nice to setup for a quick gateway, proxy, dns or samba but it lacks heavy of uniformaty (the strong point MS alsways had). XP is trying to look like OSX and so does KDE in my opinion only they doen’t run so smooth, they don’t have the nice graphics and they don’t give me the feeling that I’m computing in the year 2002. Inovation is the word and not IMMITATION. Okee OSX lacks of software but I do hope this is going to change quick. I work professionally with SUN Solaris and CDE for the desktop sucks too. I never liked Apple and they have a lot work to do to make me happy but I must give them so much credits for what they have done with OSX. This is the only OS that gave me the same feeling Amiga did long time ago. With that computer you had superb multitasking like never seen again and it kept me addicted to the machine. With all the operating systems I ran on Intels I never felt the same, so my conclusion is that it is probably not possible yet to do magic on Intel and why it did on leftbehindinclockspeed RISC? I don’t know maybe it is the creativity of the developers or people who really care about user-XPerience and don’t have to care about big companies needs and backward-compatibility. Sorry for my English but it not my native.
ps. One thing I learned over the years is not to fight and eat each other but mix the best of all vendors and you have the power.
I’m no fool but i’m not experienced in linux either. for several months, i ran a win98SE madrake 8.0 dual boot machine ( gigahertx chip, 384Mb ) both were easily fast enough for comfortable use, and although Linux ran better than win98, ifi had to choosebetween them I would have to pick win98
why?
Installation: some linux RPMs wouldnt work,as upgrades to existing installs or clean installs, cos of missing files.. Gaber requireda certain lib to have been compiled on the same machine as several other files.. which wasnt possible as others were making similar requirements… Mozilla redhat rpms refused to install at all and mandrake ones werent available at the time..some software was only available as source code and i hadnt the experience to compile and install them…
couldnt put it on my 2nd PC as the X server refused to recognise the vga adapter on it. ( integrated -1998 vintage )
wouldnt dualboot with win2k when i upgraded windows.. in fact te mandrake installer actually wiped the windows partition despite being instructed to set up dual boot, a friend tried on his win2k box and had exact same problem
windows was unreliable but it worked.
What linux needs.. IMHO
Software that doesnt need installers.. just a monolithic binary you can copy in and run, mac style.
OS Installers you can trust ( like, why couldnt it use the windows bootloader that was already installed? )
Replace x server with something easy to configure graphically… the mandrake control centre wasnt everything I’d hoped it would be
preferably.. an integrated GUI.
,sits back and waits for flames from Pro-X and pro-compiler linux fiends.. and to be called ignorant for refusing to use arcane commandline tricks to configure a desktop OS>
“…but does joe doe really want to have to mount his cd every time he wants to rip tunes?”
You don’t mount a CD when you want to rip tunes. You can launch a program, such as grip, which it is as easy as using any Windows ripper.
“…Or if they want to research their family tree…they can’t cause their isn’t a linux program that can do it.”
Yes there is. It is called Gramps and even supports GEDCOM files (why people can’t drop the stupid GEDCOM format for something good like XML is beyond me).
“Or what if billie wants to hop on aol.”
I think most kids are smart enough not to want to hop onto AOL, but if you insist, you can use AOL on a Linux machine.
“…or play any games”
Actually, there are more games available for Linux than there are for Windows.
“…or get a damn encyclopedia for that matter.”
Well, you can run Encarta on Linux using WINE if you want to, but there are many educational software packages available for Linux that are quite good.
I don’t mean to be rude, but please know what you’re talking about before you write such ranting posts.
“Has it ever occurred to you that maybe it’s the fact that your Linux *sucks*…”
No it hasn’t, but since you mentioned it I did check. Nope, my linux doesn’t suck. Maybe it’s not the OS but the user who is being difficult.
“Linux is bloated with 1000’s of crappy useless programs.
Open source good. Free not good.”
Gee, last time I looked you could do a minimal install and only install the programs that you were going to use.
Besides, the word “bloated” does not refer to how many applications you have installed on your machine. No operating system can be referred to as bloated by counting what the user has chosen to install.
“Actually, there are more games available for Linux than there are for Windows. ”
C’mon, you don’t really mean that do you?
Are you aware of the fact that if not all, then at least 99% of all the currently commercially available games run in either Windows or MacOS?
Then, of course, we have all the free- and shareware games, of which there are probably quite a few for Linux as well. But not as many as there are for Windows. Really.
I’d like to see you persuade a company like EA or Ubisoft to start distributing Linux games, really, but I don’t think it’ll happen.
– Mikael
“…Software that doesnt need installers.. just a monolithic binary you can copy in and run, mac style.”
I think it is a good idea to offer a statically linked and dynamically linked verison of your software on Linux. That way, people who have monster sized hard drives and don’t care to download a bunch of libraries can easily install and use your software. There are a lot of people that are doing that already. Sun’s Java SDK is a binary distribution that requires no linking to other existing libraries and Opera offers a statically link version of its browser.
However, with tools like apt-get, I don’t think it could be any easier.
With other software, even if the producer provides a statically linked version, you have to download it, cd to it, install it, etc.
With apt-get I just type, for example, apt-get install quantra and the quantra HTML editor is downloaded, installed and configured for me automatically. It even puts a menu entry in my menu system for me, which is consistant across all the window managers I wish to use. I just don’t think it can get easier than that.
Just lastnight I received a call from one of our offices in the US. The guy who called I know pretty well since I have been on business trips to his office in the past. Well after discussing company related stuff on some system testing we are doing, we happen to get in a short discussion about Linux and Solaris. To come to find out, this guy’s 11 year old kid is a Linux Guru and actually has come into his dads work after school to help setup and configure Solaris and Linux workstations and servers. I was floored by what he was telling me. Of course our own Lead Software Engineer ahs also been working closely with this kid while on business trips there to do our implementations.
Bottomline here is, that if a 11 year old kid can hack Linux (and Solaris) without much of a problem, then obviously Linux isn’t as hard as people think. Of course I have a Linux box sitting immediately to my right (here at work) working just fine as a ‘desktop’ solution!
“GNU let you choose what you want, MS don’t.”
For what I need to do with my computer, I can choose Windows and be “imposed” the better solution around, or use Linux and GNUs software and have the “freedom” between average and… average. If this is the cost of freedom, no thanks for me. And I don’t talk about Apache because I’m not a network admin or close to.
Visual Studio and Borland C++ Builder are the best dev softwares I ever used for what I need to do.
Outlook let me check/send mails, and organize meetings/schedules with my co-workers in a snap.
And for the games, Windows is still ahead of everyone.
Maybe I don’t have all the “choices” that Linux users have. But I don’t care, because under Windows I can already do the best of my day work with the tools they give me.
“mount cd??? that was 6 months ago. “They” have automated that issue. ”
LOL … Great joke. I remember using Windows 95 about 7 years ago, and never had to “mount” the CD. Is that Linux freaks call “Linux innovation” ?
Not me per se but for my grandmere
Create a very simple linux distro specifically for the average computer with a SINGLE windowing environment ONE office suite, ONE dvd/divx/mpeg/avi player, ONE audio player(mp3/ogg/etc) …… Don’t load the primary install CD with servers etc. Then have a server edition and a professional edition. Much as I hate to say this much like microsoft had it before.
“Hell, it’s hard enough trying to get the average Joe to find the damn Start button in Windows, so you think they’re going to manage with Linux? ”
Remind me the old (but always funny) story about the Joe User that broke his CD player thinking it was a coffee cup older … LOL … Don’t try to explain how to edit a config file to this kind of user … 🙂
damn hgm a whole 6 months ago, how dare I expect an os thats ready for joe user to be able to load a damn cd without a text command from me, be able to do it more than 6 whole months ago (jeeze windows and mac did it what 12 years ago?). btw lu_zero your too delusional to even talk to (reading user howtos doesn’t infringe on any liscensing agreements, hell ms has books of howtos, but then ago so do a million other publishers). and if you truly think open office (or even star office for that matter) is as good as ms office then I’m guessing you never used ms office. and your still bitching about paying for software (jeeze what a shock a cheap skate extoling of the virtues of a free os).
Why is it all linux geeks (or alternate os geeks for that matter) keep saying ms broke the law when they didn’t. We’re they anti competative, yes, but they did not break the law. And the oem deal, come on they never refused to let hp, compaq, ibm (who sold pcs with os2 on em) sell windows machines if they also sold machines with other oses. They wouldn’t let them sell pcs with both (linux or be and windows) but would you? Windows is the main reason people bought the pc (everyone has used windows, no one goes gee let me plunk down 2 grand so I can try linux) so why would they let linux pibby back on their popularity? they might as well cut linus a check.
As for mandrake being easy to use Ana Lyric it is, but its not as easy to use as windows (btw its also slow as hell compared to any version of windows, on the desktop I’m writing this on I had mandrake and it would hang when loading folders that were full, I don’t get half as many hangs in windows 2k even though I’m running a dozen programs in the background). Most people who’ve used a computer before can figure out windows (or mac for that matter) without reading a single howto, while linux has required reading.
All you listed was free subpar programs (none of them is good enough to sell, but if your own linux you don’t have any choice do you?). And in fact aol (sadly) is the most popular isp so saying no kids want to run it (btw I’m 22 and every kid I knew in highschool and 99% of em at the college I went to used aol at home). btw emulating windows is great, but why not just run windows (before anyone says wine isn’t an emulator realize no one cares what the 100% correct term is, its emulates having a windows os installed so its an emulator imo)? btw ~seedy~ both mandrake and caldera did the same to my win 2k partition (on a triple boot at the time), I’m beginning to think linux is the os that doesn’t want to play nice.
“Bottomline here is, that if a 11 year old kid can hack Linux (and Solaris) without much of a problem, then obviously Linux isn’t as hard as people think.”
lol … I know 11 year old kids who are good with Windows and their parents can’t even figure that out, so what’s your point?
I know a 10 year old who is a good painter, does that mean I should be able to paint too?
“Bottomline here is, that if a 11 year old kid can hack Linux (and Solaris) without much of a problem, then obviously Linux isn’t as hard as people think.”
LOL ! That’s the stupidiest “conclusion” I’ve read this month 🙂 I personnaly created my first video game at age 8. That mean my mother, my uncle, and actually every single human being in the world can programs video games in a snap ! Re-LOL ! 😛
“Of course I have a Linux box sitting immediately to my right (here at work) working just fine as a ‘desktop’ solution!”
Good for you. Doesn’t mean the whole population have the same level of needs as you.
Darius…
>>lol … I know 11 year old kids who are good with Windows and their parents can’t even figure that out, so what’s your point?<<
Well that would be my little brother and sister where my dad is concerned. My point was to people saying that Linux is too hard, and maybe it is for Billy Bob who just bought your everyday low priced PC running whatever Windows you like, but has his little 7 year old actually sho him how to use it. The same when I use to show my parents how to operate a VCR, no big deal!
Steve…
>>LOL ! That’s the stupidiest “conclusion” I’ve read this month 🙂 I personnaly created my first video game at age 8. That mean my mother, my uncle, and actually every single human being in the world can programs video games in a snap ! Re-LOL ! :-P<<
Good for you, I’ll recommend you for a Nobel Peace Prize or something… you deserve it 🙂
>>Good for you. Doesn’t mean the whole population have the same level of needs as you.<<
It isn’t my needs you idiot, that is what my company provides me to work with. I’m a Mac user at home, so I don’t use Linux at home!
It’s like the stupid argument with K-12 schools thinking that they should provide only Windows PCs to school children and nothing else… why, because they assume that since most all businesses run Windows that children need to be more Windows eccentric! Bull crap, if a child (or anybody) learns the fundamentals of any operating system, then they can apply that to any other operating system. I used Apple IIs in school till I was a teen, adapted over to DOS with no problem, though I disliked DOS at age 12 (how ironic?). I have been working around different platforms for years and I usually don’t have a problem going from one platform to the next. I am forced to do so here at my job, so it doesn’t bother me!
You Windows zealots just assume that everyone should be using Windows because it is the only alternative on the PC, right?… WRONG!!!
“It’s like the stupid argument with K-12 schools thinking that they should provide only Windows PCs to school children and nothing else… ”
100% Agree.
“why, because they assume that since most all businesses run Windows that children need to be more Windows eccentric! Bull crap, ”
150% Agree
“if a child (or anybody) learns the fundamentals of any operating system, then they can apply that to any other operating system.”
200% Agree.
I used Apple IIs in school till I was a teen, adapted over to DOS with no problem, though I disliked DOS at age 12 (how ironic?). I have been working around different platforms for years and I usually don’t have a problem going from one platform to the next. I am forced to do so here at my job, so it doesn’t bother me!
Pfiu. Again, Agree.
“You Windows zealots just assume that everyone should be using Windows because it is the only alternative on the PC, right?… WRONG!!! ”
WRONG ! This is where I disagree, and where is the problem. I love using various OS, hacking, dev on BeOS, read on Linux, playing around with QNX. With each single OS I learned something new, that sometime can strangely help me on other OS. Like me, you, and I assume everybody reading OS News are at least computers hobbyist. Computer is not just a tool, but a “loving affair” (sort of).
Which is not the case for Joe user. For my mother. For my uncle. Even for many of my “computer illiterate” friends. And they ALL have one single option, Windows. It’s sad, I would like to say that they can use different OS, but they can’t (in the exception of MacOS, for sure).
Maybe I’m totally wrong, but the difference I see between Windows users and Linux users is the religious level. On Windows side, just give a better alternative and people will switch. Period. We don’t praise Microsoft, we’re not in love with Windows specifically. We just WORK on it. Linux peoples on the other side, seem religiously attached to the OS, weither or not it may lack feature or not.
Give me an OS than let me do the exact job, and play the exact great games I play on Windows, and I switch on the spot. Do the same thing to a Linux guy, and I’m pretty sure he’ll stick to Linux.
Maybe I’m wrong, but this is currently my perception of the situation.
Well I can’t argue with those points! I am not saying Linux is better than Windows or vice versa. If you have seen some of my old posts from the past, I give Linux grief for being too chaotic with this whole GNOME/KDE mess! That is what is holding them back I think. There is too much infighting within in the Linux community with the different groups wanting to dominate in their sectors like what we see with the Desktop Environments. That is why I haven’t adopted Linux at home, though I am willing to use it at work with little or no fuss. The Linux folks need to get their act together and solve their internal feuds before trying to tackle the rest of the world!
🙂
I couldn’t said better (or maybe just because of my poor english 🙂 I currently think there’s a sad situation out there. I personnaly think Linux can be a #1 desktop OS, and currently the only one that can compete against Windows. What sadden me is that I don’t see it happening because of few reasons :
1) Lack of focus. When I look at all desktop managers in a whole, this is an incredible sum of work. I wonder what could happen if all those great programmers may unite to work on ONE single DM, and maybe by the way rewriting from scratch the old X and build on top of new foundation.
2) Lack of self evaluation. I think there’s too many people in Linux community looking at Linux as a perfect, complete and finished project. Which no OS will never be. And if you can’t evaluate your own weakness, you can’t fix it.
There’s probably other reasons, but they are the ones I think the most. 🙂
Screw all those new tech ! Bring my TRS-80 BACK !!!
I agree with you totally… right on the money with both 1 and 2 statements!
“Maybe I’m totally wrong, but the difference I see between Windows users and Linux users is the religious level. On Windows side, just give a better alternative and people will switch. Period. We don’t praise Microsoft, we’re not in love with Windows specifically. We just WORK on it. Linux peoples on the other side, seem religiously attached to the OS, weither or not it may lack feature or not.
Give me an OS than let me do the exact job, and play the exact great games I play on Windows, and I switch on the spot. Do the same thing to a Linux guy, and I’m pretty sure he’ll stick to Linux.”
Really, I couldn’t have said it better myself. I am not hopelessly in love or attached to Windows.
But to make me switch, you’re going to have to offer me a BETTER alternative than Win2k. (And it must be an alternative that works better for me, NOT for you!!!!)
Right now, Linux (meaning all the variants of *Nix/FreeBSD, etc) IS the only alternative and it’s not something I want to use on the desktop. So, it’s not so much a love for Windows as much as it is a dislike for Linux (and especially XFree86 inparticular).
I agree fully with all the above so you linux geeks read it and please stop atacking everyone not with you ok?
I think I said the same exact thing (about windows users willing to switch if something better for them comes along) either early on in this topic or in another recently. I would disagree about 1 thing though, you mention schools using all windows at least where I’m from its the exact opposite. The highschool I went to had a mac lab, and the few classes that had computers had macs, and the “multimedia” (only ones with internet access, I graduated before there was a push for net access in my area)computers that floated around and sat in the library were all macs. The only windows based pcs were of the 486 variety running windows 3.1 (I graduated june ’98), and those were in the “business” computer lab, which only kids in the business magnet had access too (other than a basic typing class that used them after our 40 year old royal typewriters all died). My point is no one I know from school uses a mac today, we all had to learn how to use windows (luckily they aren’t that different), but if you start throwing in a linux distro or 2, and be, and qnx and whatever else it will make it more difficult for students not easier. If schools go with only 1 type of computer right now it should be windows, the reason being most businesses run windows. So doesn’t it make sense to teach what they will most likely use? Learning to use a mac or linux or qnx or be is great, but I thought schools were meant to teach kids how to function in the world (either job market or college or military or what) not give them a hobby. Especially with tech funding such a small part of the education budget. btw learning fundamentals is great but application is more important (I know how an os works. great can you do these basic tasks in windows? no, but I could do them in anyone of 5 other operating systems, and I’m sure I can pick them up shortly. thats nice, we’ll be in touch.).
______________Someone wrote_____________________
damn hgm a whole 6 months ago, how dare I expect an os thats ready for joe user to be able to load a damn cd without a text command from me, be able to do it more than 6 whole months ago (jeeze windows and mac did it what 12 years ago?). btw lu_zero your too delusional to even talk to (reading user howtos doesn’t infringe on any liscensing agreements, hell ms has books of howtos, but then ago so do a million other publishers). and if you truly think open office (or even star office for that matter) is as good as ms office then I’m guessing you never used ms office. and your still bitching about paying for software (jeeze what a shock a cheap skate extoling of the virtues of a free os).
_______________________end_
I’m ok with mount, at least I don’t have corrupted data because windoze let you eject MO and other removable storage before all the writing is completed (experienced at uni with a laptop with winME) on a decent OS I can even do a sync command to be 100% sure about that and curiously that is a huge number of years old concept.
MS howtos are NOT complete and some times misleading (winAPI references?).
I had to make some office automation scripts for excel as work, was win2k time and there isn’t _ANY_ service pack yet.
I installed win2k (not an issue, I installed NT4 on many machines before) I installed the target MS Office suite and I started writing… I lost days because of random crashes.
Recently I was forced to make a word document (on uni the lab has just MS crap (pricy crap…) again my team lost hours because of the usual issues with image placing and random crashes and locks. I had less issues with OpenOffice devel…
A friend of mine used MS VC++ some times he got the compiler crashing… That isn’t was I call good software.
On the computer shop I sorta work part time I see winXP on a graphic workstation, and I see the usual issues (memory leacks here and there, random unstability(luckly not crashes, just unexpected events, like not having net connectivity w/out reasons) plus the bunch of new crap (dummy mode UI, spywares, backdoors…), that isn’t good software.
“I’m ok with mount, at least I don’t have corrupted data because windoze let you eject MO and other removable storage before all the writing is completed”
The only storage device I use that may be removed before the whole buffer is written is my CompactFlash reader. For that I simply click on “Eject” and that’s it (kind of unmount in a way). So I only need to do that swtep when I really need it.
“MS howtos are NOT complete and some times misleading (winAPI references?).”
I use MSDN (WinAPI reference) for the last 6 years without problems. Even with a software that was a lot deeling with the low-level of Win32 and the overall Windows architecture, and I can’t remember a single time where MSDN wasn’t enough. Maybe it’s just a good search technics one need…
“Recently I was forced to make a word document (on uni the lab has just MS crap (pricy crap…) again my team lost hours because of the usual issues with image placing and random crashes and locks.”
For image placement issue this is clearly a simple lack of experience on a software. I’m sure that I (used with MSOffice and don’t have this kind of problems) will have a hard time in the beginning to do what I need to do with OpenOffice.
“A friend of mine used MS VC++ some times he got the compiler crashing… That isn’t was I call good software.”
Is your friend a monkey ? Again like MSDN I use the Micrsoft IDE and compiler for various work at my job, and at home. Not just “hello worlds”, but hardware drivers, NT kernel plug-ins, network security administrator and for the fun various video games dealing with DirectX. You know what ? The compiler is great ! Maybe not necessary the one that generate the ultimate binary (I heard that Intel compiler produce slighty better code on advanced processors), but never crashed on me, and give amongst the better performances on the market.
“On the computer shop I sorta work part time I see winXP on a graphic workstation, and I see the usual issues (memory leacks here and there, random unstability(luckly not crashes, just unexpected events, like not having net connectivity w/out reasons)”
The only time my XP crashed on me and acted like screwed up, I finally realized that I had an hardware problem, a memory bracket totally f—ed up. As soon as I changed it, XP *never* crashed on me again, and it’s on continuously days and night. And as for network, the only times I loose my connection, AT&T is having (yet another) problem. So it’s not XP.
“(dummy mode UI, spywares, backdoors”
For the dummy mode, there’s a single option you just need to set, in the control panel, and you switch back to the “classic” Windows view (me too I don’t like the new dummy XP look). But it’s not like you don’t have the choice !
For spywares and backdoors, just be bright and use a Firewall/Anti-virus and there’s no problems. Oups ! Just received a mail containing a Outlook virus, heck it’s already in my quarantine folder, thanks to Norton Anti-Virus. Someone try to hacks me ? He need to go through my default XP firewall, then through my Norton firewall.
“that isn’t good software.”
Unless you’re a monkey, this IS good software.
P.S. Ah! lu_zero … you’re my nemesis in here 🙂
I don’t know what your using because I’ve never had a write failure because I ejected something (then again I’m not ejecting stuff while I’m writing to it). As for office it can crash or hang on you for no apparent reason (from what I’ve read and seen its trying to do a background save of the file, if its large and your making changes it can be a little frustrating). Memory leaks and spyware are not microsoft’s fault 99% of the time. I can’t think of a single ms product with a noticeable memory leak, I also have yet to get slapped with ms brand spyware (guess I’m not online enough).
Just to name one: ms media player and his licence.
anyway Steve I still believe I’m not a monkey, since I can use with ease software that by popular common place aren’t easy and not for Joe the Idiot.
Memory leaks on winME GUI are MS faults and don’t even say to upgrade to winXP, (I’ll upgrade that laptop to a GNU Distro as soon as I’m allowed to do that)
On GNU if something isn’t as I like I can take and change it.
“Memory leaks on winME GUI are MS faults and don’t even say to upgrade to winXP, (I’ll upgrade that laptop to a GNU Distro as soon as I’m allowed to do that)”
Totally agree with anyone who say any Windows 9X release (95, 98, ME) is a crap, unstable, and packed of memory leaks. This is why it’s almost impossible to intensively run one of those OS without rebooting every one or two days.
Where I defend Windows is with the NT series (NT4, 2K, XP) where the memory is WAY better handled than the other 9X craps, very stable and infinitely more secure (infinitely as in 9X = 0 security, NT > 0 security) 🙂 Nobody can avoid a bug in a software to crash. A good OS will be able to survive this, and in my experience NT is very good at it, recover lost memories, etc.
So I’m curious to know if the negative experiences you enumerate were under a 9X Windows (which will not be too much surprising), or under a NT Windows (which will very surprise me).
” Steve I still believe I’m not a monkey, since I can use with ease software that by popular common place aren’t easy and not for Joe the Idiot. ”
Good point ! 🙂 But I anyway never thought you are, it’ll be kind of insulting for me to considere my nemesis a monkey 😛
do you mean media player is spyware (it isn’t, its default is to make it more difficult to steal songs) or that it has a memory leak (it might, I don’t use it much so I don’t know). Me has a lot of problems, but I don’t think memory leaks was one of em (it has been 2 years so I could be wrong). As for 9x not being as stable as the nt line, well duh. 9x is basically a prettied up 3.1, and it stuck with those insane resource caps which is what makes it “unstable”. Of course I ran 98se since it first came out and when I didn’t power down for a reason other than to “freshen” up the resources you could run for days without rebooting. Now before everyone says days isn’t enough, realize most people shut off their pc whenever they’re not using it so even days is over kill. And the times I did get a bsod was a badly written app (granted if the caps weren’t in place it wouldn’t have brought down my whole system, but I’m just playing a game not running a heart/lung machine).
just make a program like that
for(i=0;i<100;i++)
printf(“abc ”);
that is enough to make any NT based windows crash.
that is knew since NT4 and isn’t fixed yet.
the Word random crash are from win2k vanilla (no service packs avaible yet)
waste of a human life. Sounds like you’ve forced your own goals on a fresh mind. Shame on you lamer.
I’m 14 and I’m coding in asm, that doesn’t make asm ready for database programming
“just make a program like that
for(i=0;i<100;i++)
printf(“abctbbbbbbbbb”);
that is enough to make any NT based windows crash. ”
MOUAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH !!! LOL !!! RE-LOL !!!
Ok now there’s two choice :
1) You’re a f–ing moron that know NOTHING about PC, and in this case you just loose any credibility.
or
2) You’re a bright one that use irony and ridiculus humor to make people laugh.
Either case you give me a great, incredible laughing moment… 🙂
that forum just have issues on the escape character “backslash”
anyway the string issues is real on NT systems =/
Happy to make you laugh =)
“anyway the string issues is real on NT systems =/”
Still a joke ? Please, just for once tell me you’re goofing ! This is sooo absurd ! =)