Home > SCO > Judge slams SCO’s lack of evidence against IBM Judge slams SCO’s lack of evidence against IBM Submitted by Yves R. Crevecoeur 2005-02-10 SCO 27 Comments The federal judge overseeing the SCO Group’s suit against IBM regarding Unix and Linux has thwarted an IBM attempt to defang SCO’s claims, but he also voiced loud skepticism about SCO’s case. About The Author Eugenia Loli Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker. Follow me on Twitter @EugeniaLoli 27 Comments 2005-02-10 7:31 pm Maybe the judge doesn’t throw out the case because he enjoys it too much. It’s better than the Drew Carey show. 2005-02-10 7:58 pm >>>>Maybe the judge doesn’t throw out the case because he enjoys it too much. It’s better than the Drew Carey show.<<<< I’ll bring the popcorn. =)~ 2005-02-10 7:59 pm Guess that guy that SCO hired isn’t so impressive afterall. 2005-02-10 8:28 pm i havnt been following the case for a few months (ever since darl decided to stop with the whole “wildly unbelievable accusation of the day” thing he had going for awhile). i do know that they dropped boise though, as the legal expenses were getting too much. 2005-02-10 8:33 pm “i do know that they dropped boise though, as the legal expenses were getting too much. ” I had no idea. Hadn’t even heard that. Boy, they really are screwed now. 2005-02-10 8:50 pm i do know that they dropped boise though, as the legal expenses were getting too much. Err, no, you’ve got that slightly turned around. The expenses were getting to be too much, so they reached an agreement with Boies’ firm to limit cash payouts, agreeing to give the firm SCO stock instead. Yep, SCO stock. Kinda makes you smile, doesn’t it? 2005-02-10 8:54 pm “Yep, SCO stock. Kinda makes you smile, doesn’t it?” You’re kidding. The law firm would actually except SCO stock in payment for their services? That’s a pretty risky gamble for the lawyers to take, isn’t it? They could easily come away from this with nothing. 2005-02-10 10:00 pm I wonder if Boise noticed the stock certificates were printed on toilet paper. 2005-02-10 10:40 pm To accept stock as payment, they must think that they have a good chance of winning. Unless it’s for accounting purposes, to show a financial loss on a big case. 2005-02-10 10:59 pm good question… that is like accepting Confederate money as payment while General Grant marches thru Atlanta… 2005-02-10 11:12 pm Oops, my bad, that was Sherman’s March to the Sea is when Atlanta was burned, wrong general… 2005-02-10 11:12 pm One, SCO wins the case, their stocks rise, the lawyers sell and get rich(er). Two, SCO loses the case, goes bankrupt, and because its a public company when the assets are sold off the lawyers get paid. I’m sure the lawyers are keeping a close eye on how much money they’ll get if SCO goes under. Lawyers do that. I know I’ve probably made a mistake in my reasoning somewhere, and I invite you all to point it out to me, but it seems like the lawyers will make out OK no matter what. 2005-02-10 11:54 pm “I know I’ve probably made a mistake in my reasoning somewhere, and I invite you all to point it out to me, but it seems like the lawyers will make out OK no matter what.” The lawyers always make out ok. SCO’s strategry has been to get money from MS (and even Sun) to be an attack by proxy, and to get an initial stock boost for execs to sell off, then hope for IBM to settle out of court or to buy them out. In any case, SCO’s big gamble that IBM would settle out of court, or buy them out, just to get them to go away, is back-firing big time. IBM is much smarter then SCO is, and SCO is suffering for it. It will be fun to watch SCO pay the outside consultants to have to pour through millions of lines of AIX/Dynix source code to fish for evidence, only to find nothing, then have the judge slap them. And the whole episode has made Linux much, much, much stronger. Thank you, SCO. 2005-02-10 11:57 pm As Blockbuster says about it’s late fees! IT”S OOOOOOVER, IT’S OOOOOOVER! 2005-02-11 12:22 am ” As Blockbuster says about it’s late fees! IT”S OOOOOOVER, IT’S OOOOOOVER! ” I suggest you wait for it to end. I know I plan too. I dont care what judges or press say, when that decision is handed down by those 12 people, if it gets that far, thats the only opinion that counts. The judge can think IBM is not liable or not guilty and that they are innocent, in a jury trial 12 people have to pass down that decision. 2005-02-11 12:51 am Good advice, but those twelve people will make up their minds based on evidence, and SCO don’t seem to have any. Unless they can bring real evidence to the trial, the jury verdict is almost a foregone conclusion. 2005-02-11 1:32 am “twelve people will make up their minds based on evidence” Check me on this. Isn’t this a bench trial (just a judge)? I haven’t read anything about a jury in this case. 2005-02-11 1:58 am I think that it’s supposed to be a jury trial. Here’s an old article, but if you search on ‘jury’ you’ll see what I mean: http://www.internetnews.com/dev-news/article.php/3343391 2005-02-11 6:16 am I suggest you wait for it to end. I know I plan too. I dont care what judges or press say, when that decision is handed down by those 12 people, if it gets that far, thats the only opinion that counts. The judge can think IBM is not liable or not guilty and that they are innocent, in a jury trial 12 people have to pass down that decision. You’re doing your best, don’t you? 2005-02-11 7:05 am It’s even possible that SCO is in the right, which would be crazy weird. No matter how many people hate that, it’s been proven that unix source was leaked into linux in the past(but that seems to have been taken care of). Also, many big iron OS advocates that study this became quiet and decided to attack SCO on trade issues and other issues unreleated to their IPO in the linux kernel. So, apparently there is some sysv in linux. No matter how hard you hate it. But I must admit that SCO has used the press and other various things in order to keep their tiny company alive and alienate their customers and partners. SCO is such a horrible company IMHO and although we are no present in a courtroom and cannot hear all the evidence and arguements presented by SCO And IBM and cannot make clear judgements nor specifically say that YES IBM is right or YES SCO is right, we can only hope that SCO will loose. Besides, there are plenty of alternatives that are compatible with linux. 2005-02-11 7:07 am SCO doesn’t have to win, all they need is a settlement. IBM could empower SCO to take over the kernel and give sweetheart license deals back to MS, IBM, HP, Dell, Novell and others that deal in enterprise support contracts and indemnification. Independent users are ultimately the ones that stand to get sued, or get hit with cost and/or access restrictions. Most of the big money users won’t feel the difference anyway, and it’s a win for IBM in any scenario other than a jury verdict against them. 2005-02-11 12:38 pm suggest you wait for it to end. I know I plan too. I dont care what judges or press say, when that decision is handed down by those 12 people, if it gets that far, thats the only opinion that counts. True, though in rare cases the judge can set aside the jury’s verdict. A key phrase is “if it gets that far.” While the judge did not grant IBM’s motion for summary judgment (which would end the case before a trial) at this point, his ruling did state in no uncertain terms that he hadn’t seen any evidence from SCO so far to support their claims (the ruling termed SCO’s failure in this regard “astonishing”). The judge wrote that he preferred to wait until SCO had full opportunity to obtain records in discovery. This foreshadows a renewed motion by IBM at the close of discovery, by which time the judge has indicated SCO had better have something to support its case. 2005-02-11 12:59 pm As I understand it if Justice Kimball grants IBM’s motion for summay judgement after the completion of disclosure and dimisses SCO’s case, then the case does not go to a jury trial. The judge would be effectively saying that on the basis of the evidence submited by SCO there are no legal grounds for the case to go forward. SCO could then appeal but that would be a whole new ball game. IANAL and all that stuff 2005-02-11 1:58 pm This company really has some balls thinking that they can squash a revolution, even more so when they have no evidence to support their claims. What idiots! As a company they are now well-known, not b/c of the quality of their products, but for the stupidity in which they handled this case. Sun, a UNIX company, is making the necessary adjustments in business strategy to stay in the game, but SCO is floundering and this case is their last great hope. I would NEVER buy a Unixware server, EVER. SCO has a permanent dirt mark on them that will never go away. 2005-02-11 3:48 pm The one part of the article I particularly enjoyed is the closing quote: “Especially when you’re talking about the danger of having summary judgment or even partial summary judgment granted against you, it’s pretty difficult to think of a reason you would withhold all of your evidence,” Levy said To which I would add: Unless of course you have no evidence or case, and are simply trying to bully the defendant into a settlement. 2005-02-11 5:54 pm Cause when you think it is, it pops up again. Just like a soap they drag the same thing out forever. 2005-02-11 6:03 pm At first, SCO announced that BS&F, Boies firm, had taken the case on contingency. One month later, they announced that BS&F would be paid in stock shares, worth 15% of SCO; Darl McBride called Boies his “partner”. Next, they announced that BS&F lawyers hours would be paid for, but at a discounted fee. Finally, SCO announced that BS&F law firm would be paid $31 Millions in cash, plus expenses… That $31M contract is valid to the end of 2005; unfortunately SCO’s latest shenanigans will push back the Trial date to mid-2006 SCO still has $8 millions in reserves, they are pretty sure that their “core” business is now profitable, for the first time in 10 years. They have just won the right to peruse 2 billion lines of code from IBM, all the intermediate developpment code for AIX and Dynix since 1984. Since the code must be handled by a third-party firm, the cost of that fishing expedition is estimated in the $$$ millions. Happy fishing !