vbRad.com has an article detailing how modular nature of Linux is causing it to have difficulties penetrating the home desktop market. “Bottom line. Most of these problems can be traced to lack of integration between components in Linux. Until there is some integration Linux is unlikely to gain a foothold in the desktop market” the author concludes.
Why Linux Sucks as a Desktop OS
About The Author
Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
Follow me on Twitter @EugeniaLoli
no complains from myself. I installed linux out of curiousity and have moved since to FreeBSD. Curiosity kicks ass.
Spoon feeding sucks.
Ditto. Except I’m on Linux, not FreeBSD
Then again, I wouldn’t argue against better integration of anything, any day. It’s fairly ubiquitous.
It doesn’t suck. I can do the same things with Linux without crashes, viruses, breaking the law, etc. I manily design Websites using Mozilla and Bluefish, open/write documents with OpenOffice.org, browsing the Web, listen to music, chat online (using GAIM), edit images (using the GIMP), share printers/files/etc with Linux and non-Linux systems, … Linux is a great desktop and server OS! As one of my friends says, Windows isn’t serious; Windows is great for playing games only. So install Red Hat Linux, Slackware and/or Debian and see yourself if Linux can do the stuff you usually do.
n0dez
http://linuxsucks.com/penquingetsit6.jpg
I actually like Linux, but you have to admit, that’s pretty funny.
Full Ack!
The greatest advantages of linux (flexibility and freedom of choice) are also “show stoppers” for the average user. They simply can’t handle this complexity.
Linux on the server IMHO has a bright future, linux on the desktop needs some … well … polishing, unification and standardisation. Several window managers, 2 main destop environments (Gnome and KDE), differnet toolkits (QT, GTK), different behaviour between distros and so on. These are only a few reasons that confuse a typical user.
Lots of what he moans about is specific to Red Hat and its extremely conservative legal outlook. Some of it is already dealt with in, e.g., Mandrake 9.1 and SuSE 8.2. Almost all the rest will be dealt with, I reckon, in the next round of distro releases (fontconfig >=2.2 + freetype >=2.1.4 + bitstream vera = out-of-the-box font happiness, for instance…this is how Mandrake Cooker now looks, and it’s pretty, and I’m sure all the other distros will do the same). Not really very much to make a fuss about.
Geez. The title alone should dissuade me from feeding the trolls, but I’m a sucker for abusing morons. A point by point rebuttel:
#1) Apparently the author is unable to make the distinction between a technical and legal issue. Adding a module to the kernel is just a matter of compiling that module, not the whole kernel, just as in Windows. I have done it twice so far, once for NVIDIA, and once for VMWare. The reason NTFS isn’t distributed by RedHat, but is on SourceForge is because RedHat is far more paranoid about legal issues than a random packager on SourceForge. And .vxd’s haven’t been used in Windows since 9x. Get with the program!
#2) Agreed, but with a caveat. The two most popular drivers (NVIDIA and ATI) *are* distributed seperately. And the XF86 module API is stable enough that you *could* distribute drivers independently, it’s just that no one chooses to do so.
#3) The effect is correct, but the percieved cause is not. The fact that KDE/GNOME and the kernel are not tightly integrated is simply an example of good, modular software design. The actual weakness is a lack of a good, common event manager that could signal a program like the “hardware-added” wizard.
#4) Um, and Windows *is* a complete desktop environment upon install? I installed Windows yesterday (oh and boy am I ready to write a review!) to support some stupid CAD software I didn’t have the Linux version for. I had to download the NVIDIA drivers (the default ones don’t support 1600×1200 @32bpp) and Mozilla seperately, as well as a program to access my ext2fs partitions. And Linux is far more integrated in this respect than Windows. 99% of the stuff you need for a complete desktop is right at your finger tips with APT (which works with RPMS now) or Portage. In Windows, you have to go scour the net for it. As for the configuration thing, I had the hardest time configuring WinXP. Took me 20 minutes to set the font DPI to my laptop’s native resolution. Why can’t I just pass a simple parameter and be done with it? Much of the reason Windows is easy to configure is because people are used to it. I don’t mind people saying that Linux needs to have some sort of transitional configuration mechanism for these people, but lets judge the actual Linux configuration mechanisms on their own merit.
Bottom line: The author has no clue what he is talking about. Mistakes clean, modular design for “integration” problems. Hits on some legitimate issues, completely makes up reasons behind them.
aren’t you tired of reporting every single “i have an opinion too” article about linux that floats around the net?
Linux (and BSD) can be configured to work as one wants. However, this configuration may never be possible for an average user. This does not mean that Linux lacks functionality; it only means that this functionality may be hard to add or configure.
That is a pity; I was hoping that I can let go of Windows for good, but even though I have been a *nix user for a while, I still manage to find a funtionality or a feature that is sufficiently painful to add with *nix.
Maybe I will wait until OpenBeOS (or something like it) can replace all of the other OSes (for my purposes, of course).
Linux is a young OS. Give it time to mature. It is more difficult and time-consuming to create a mass market desktop OS than a server OS.
And please create a new site, “osflamewars.com” for the endless dumb articles on why Linux sucks/doesn’t suck, why Mac sucks/doesn’t suck, why Windows sucks/doesn’t suck, why BeOS sucks/doesn’t suck, etc.
Maybe “osnews.com” can feature some stories about innovative ways people are using their OS of choice to do something fun or interesting in life. Just a thought.
“I can do the same things with Linux without crashes, viruses, breaking the law, etc.”
Does that imply one can’t do anything in Windows without crashes, viruses, or breaking the law?
I’ve not had Windows XP crash. I’ve never had a virus. Meanwhile several of my friends had their machines rooted yesterday through the most recent Samba exploit. Linux isn’t some magic cure-all.
As for me, I cernainly can’t do the same things. Here’s a few programs I use which you can’t use in Linux:
http://www.propellerheads.se/products/reason/frame.html
http://www.quark.com/products/xpress/60_series1.html
http://www.apple.com/finalcutpro/
http://www.protools.com/
As for the latter, sure, Ardour is fine… if the only feature of ProTools you use is the multitrack editor, and own the one the one multitrack DAC/ADC supported by ALSA. If you intend to use Protools to replace a mixing bus and export a multichannel rough cut to studio tape before deciding to replace a track, then exporting a final cut of a song to a 1630 (with a discrete 20kHz lowpass filter to meet red book standards) then Ardour is most certainly not going to be up to the task.
“Windows isn’t serious; Windows is great for playing games only.”
Please tell that to everyone who actually does professional work on Windows.
Linux suffers from a terrible problem afflicting common desktop usage: there is no uniform ABI, and consequently it becomes nearly impossible for professional software developers to release their applications in such a way they they can easily be deployed in any Linux environment.
The canonical response to this statement is “Linux developers don’t care about binary compatibility, they’d rather have innovation!”
Well, that’s a wonderful attitude, but by doing so you’re kissing any chances of professional quality software and hence mainstream desktop acceptance goodbye.
First its titled “Why Linux Sucks”, need I say more?
Now I will comment on the points argued in the article:
1. Windows XP does not have any features to view Linux partitions either. Nor does it have the ability to download a kernel plugin from sourceforge. Most linux distros include this by default. Perhaps your title should have been “Why RedHat Sucks”
2. Video drivers and X are a known problem. The problem is the same in any OS other than windows, for which all the video drivers are written for. Try buying any off-the-shelf PC video card and stick it in a Mac. The hardware is compatible, AGP and PCI, but the software just doesn’t cut it. Why do you think that is? Does OSX suck, too? No, it just has very little industry support and Apple doesn’t have the time or inclination to write drivers for all those old video cards. The XFree86 project does.
3. That’s funny, I plugged in my Olympus 730UZ camera the other day and Linux immediately loaded a kernel module and confiured the camera as a SCSI device in /dev/sda. Then I did a quick lsmod to double check that it loaded the kernel module and mounted it to /mnt/sda. Within 10 minutes I had scripts written to automaticly mount the filesystem and move all the images off of it into a unique directory so I only had to click one button on my desktop after plugging in the camera. I’m sure if I cared I could have gotten some graphical tools to work with it, like the GIMP, but I’m lazy so I use the command line. Then browse to my image directories with konqueror, kwickshow and the GIMP, all installed by default.
4. RedHat 8+ out-of-the-box does everything I need. It plays ogg files, mounts NFS and SMB network shares, has all the servers I would ever want, comes with complete MS Office document compatiblity for all those *.doc files I keep getting in my email. Has tons of scripting and programming tools, several desktop environments to choose from, etc. About the only thing lacking is a nice GUI tool to add support for NTFS, mp3, sinaptic/apt, and a few other things that would give some journalists less to bitch about.
But whatever, ymmv.
Another stupid article. Try accessing your ext2 drive from WinXP. If Linux is so unready for you, why bother? Just use Windows or buy a Mac, they both work fine.
The article couldn’t possibly be more of a troll than it is. It’s basically just flamebait and doesn’t establish any real reasons.
Apparently the author doesn’t understand legal issues with things like NTFS and nvidia drivers and makes a extremely non-thought provoking article.
Why do these articles that couldn’t have taken more than 30 minutes to write even make it on to the front page?
“Try buying any off-the-shelf PC video card and stick it in a Mac. The hardware is compatible, AGP and PCI, but the software just doesn’t cut it. ”
The bios for mac and pc video cards are different, that’s why it wouldn’t work. You can flash the bios of some pc geforce 2 and 3 cards to work with a mac however.
Why don’t we just stop all these articles and come to an agreement that linux is not an idiot’s desktop and move on?
linux ready for the desktop?
more so then 2 years back, but not there yet.
when writing an interface design document, i could not copy form nedit (my favorite editor) and openoffice. i mean duh… isn’t it time to create standards, and enforce them?
nautilus keeps my usbkey locked, even after i have all windows closed.
different distros keep their stuff in different places.
regards,
Int
That’s funny, you can stick an ATI PCI card in a Sun workstation and get it working with XFree86 on Linux even though it would never work with Solaris or even display the prom (or BIOS). I bet you could do the same thing with a Mac.
Why don’t we just stop all these articles and come to an agreement that linux is not an idiot’s desktop and move on?
Because us Linux users are constantly running into problems with all those Microsoft file formats and compatibility problems. We have to convert all the idiots if we ever want to get any sleep at night.
Linux has not been created/designed for a desktop use.
That’s it: no need to argue…
You can add whatever you want to it… X,KDE,… it won’t do it…
And please stop the “Linux is ready for desktop”,…
=> If you wanna use it, just use it.
=> If you don’t want to use it, don’t use it.
For my part, I don’t want to use it, so you can put as many “Linux is ready”, “Linux is more stable than win”, as you want: this won’t make me use it.
ah, right, so you won’t use it.
everybody! Leo The Most Important Man In The Universe won’t use linux on the desktop! let’s pack up and go home!
you’ve made me see the light.
when writing an interface design document, i could not copy form nedit (my favorite editor) and openoffice. i mean duh… isn’t it time to create standards, and enforce them?
The clipboard is an enormous problem in X. Not only do many applications implement pasting differently (right click works on most, but not all) but there’s no standard for moving anything other than unformatted text.
The clipboards in OS X and Windows both allow for copying and pasting of mixed format content, preserving all the original formatting from the source document.
Drag ‘n’ drop goes a great way to increase usability of a UI. OS X is assuredly the leader in this department. You can highlight text and drag it onto where you want it to be pasted (which can all be done with one hand, no need to involve the keyboard or global/contextual menus). This support is extended to things like the terminal. Drag an icon onto Terminal.app and it pastes its location. Drag an image or document from Safari onto the Terminal and it pastes its URL.
In terms of overall integration, these are two areas where Linux is assuredly behind the competition.
That’s funny, you can stick an ATI PCI card in a Sun workstation and get it working with XFree86 on Linux even though it would never work with Solaris or even display the prom (or BIOS). I bet you could do the same thing with a Mac.
Are you making a 32-bit build of XFree86? Or perhaps you aren’t using a 24bpp mode. Every time I’ve tried to use X on a 64-bit architecture in 24bpp mode I run into some rather abominable 64-bit cleanliness issues.
This guy dont knows what he is writing about.I find it pointless to discuss with somebody like him.This article SUCKS
I don’t want people to use it or not, I want people to be FREE to choose if yes or no they want to use it: I’m just fedup with all those Linux is for you, go linux, linux is easy to install, linux is… linux… linux… STOP.
Stop this Linux propaganda in the OS news sites…
There’s only one reason Win XP doesn’t even try to access any other partition except FAT/NTFS (desktop OS) – it’s the big daddy of all OS. All others have to be compatible (submissive) if the plan is to survive.
Next they will be complaint about how much Linux costs
Problem #4. There isn’t an distro that does everything I need out of the box. It usually takes several hours of hunting for software to make the system usable if at all.
I don’t seem to find that’s the case. And even on Windows, I also have to install tons of software to make it the way I wanted to. If it’s just CLI vs GUI, then you can say whatever you prefer better; But if he’s suggesting there’s no need to hunt for software on Windows to make it ‘usable’? I don’t believe in that at all.
You said:
<em>There’s only one reason Win XP doesn’t even try to access any other partition except FAT/NTFS (desktop OS) – it’s the big daddy of all OS. All others have to be compatible (submissive) if the plan is to survive.</em>
Not entirely true. I have yet to need to access my Windows partition in Linux, and I’m sure there are others out there like myself. In a server sense, I have my server shares mounted via samba, so again, no need for the NTFS access. Seems to me that Linux would do just fine without being able to access NTFS, especially in the server market. A lot of people who switch to Linux use it outright and don’t even have a Windows partition on the same machine. I have a Windows partition, but the only reason I do is so I can get my gaming fix.
QUIT whining.
If you don’t like this article, go to the FRONT PAGE of osnews and check the first story for today, the one in red headlines. THAT article is pro-Linux. This one it is not. We report on any side of the fence. I don’t want this to be either a fan-Linux site (we are not), neither a anti-Linux site (we are not either).
As where we find these articles that someone asked: it got submitted to us.
“If you can’t explain it simply, you don’t understand it well enough.”
– Albert Einstein
Metaphorically speaking, one could say “it” is the Linux kernel and low-level processes, and “you” is the UI (i.e. the desktop, window manager, and applications). If Linux is still this disjointed after 12 years, then the words “Linux is not a desktop OS” may always be true.
Apps, apps, and apps
If Linux has what you need and you’re willing to endure some headaches to make the transistion (if you haven’t) already, AND if Linux will work with your current hardware, you’re probably in good shape.
Why the hell did you print this shit? Hmm “vbrad.com” says Linux sucks, no shit. That’s like linking to Microsoft’s why Windows NT is better than Linux page! Jeezus
“Users can download the new kernel and replace their original one.”
Bullshit, they copy a module to a directory and use the existing kernel.
“but alas the install reverts to a generic video driver. Sucks for you.”
OMFG, like Windows hasn’t ever defaulted to the “VGA PCI” driver! Wait 3 days, and install the new driver.
“As a result, when I plug my USB digital camera (or mouse, printer, etc) into the PC, absolutely nothing happens.”
Really? That’s funny, it loads the driver on my system. I haven’t compiled anything! Oh, you mean it doesn’t install fstab entries! Well then either run kudzu, or reboot.
“And I haven’t seen any significant effort to address this issue.”
Hmm, then address the damn issue or shut the hell up. Why must Linux work just like Windows?
“no user knows or should know the command to mount a drive.”
I know how to mount a drive, so does my wife. My relatives know how to mount drives as it’s a simple right click -> left click. Again, why the hell should Linux BE Windows?
“There isn’t an distro that does everything I need out of the box.”
Hmm, Windows has everything you need out of the box?
Then why should Linux?
OH YEAH, it’s a Windows site!
One more thing you fucking turkeys at OS News, “what you going to do when LINUX goes wild on you?”.
You need to censor, and so does Microsoft. Being able to recompile is a good thing, not a bad thing. How do you recompile an interface like Win32 interface? Do you know the difference between implementation and interface? When Microsoft installs spyware, how do I remove it and recompile me platform so that I don’t become a victom? How do you recompile your interface victom? You still have not answered my question.
You should re-evaluate your clipboard statement, try using RedHat 9 for that evaluation.
Linux does not suck, It is not ready for the desktop by any means but that doesnt mean it will never be. I hope Linux does well just to piss off Bill Gates and break Microsofts stronghold on the software industry.
I have two complaints with the article:
1. He generalizes for all linux distributions based on one distribution. All his problems come from Redhat. I switched from WinXP to Mandrake 9.1 and had none of those problems (including my digital camera being detected). Maybe he should try another distribution before making broad generalizations.
2. Many and most of those problems also exist in Windows XP and other Windows versions.
3. There’s also a big distinction on views. With Windows he accepts that certain software (i.e. DVD) doesn’t come with the OS, but he doesn’t accept this for linux. He expects everything already to be there.
I don’t like a biased distinction like this. Reviews/commentarys should put the same set of review standards towards all products being reviewed.
From the review “When I tell WinXP to shutdown my PC, I can just walk away, because it will shutdown the entire machine.”
I am glad for him but my experience is unfortunately different. Quite often, WinXP seems to waits for an application to handle the OnClose event. And the application is not responding! Sometime (when lucky) you get the “Do you want to terminate it”? Sometime shutdown just hang forever (of course, you do not have any feedback or any way to know what is causing that) and I have to push the reset button.
In Linux, kill -9 ALWAYS does the job!
I prefer this shutdown method..
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;317326
I’m so sick and fucking tired of all of the lies that Linux is less ready for the desktop and XP can do no wrong. The garbage has to stop, you are losing all of your credibility in the industry by posting these articles, especially without doing *ANY* fact finding!
Just Because Something is different, that does NOT necessarily mean its harder. Why does linux suck to this reviewer? Because its different than what he’s used to.
If a mass majority of the desktop market was linux and people were migrating to windows, there would be all sorts of people whining and complaining. Why doesn’t windows come with everything I need? I have to spend 6 days downloading service packs and software.
I have to agree to disagree on this whole matter. . .
Linux is ready to go desktop in some aspects. In others, it still needs work. Let me give you a bit of a example:
I’m 16, and my mother was fed up with WinXP Home (Why she didn’t get pro, I have no clue). . . I suggested Linux and gave her a few articles on RedHat 8.0 Psyche.
I came home from the community college a week later to find that this completely computer ignorant (But intelligent) woman had resized Windows XP, Installed Redhat 8, Installed the Netscape browser, configured Java so she could play her little Yahoo! Games with her friends, and had Wine almost set up (She needed help with the config file because Floppy and CDROM are different from the default on Redhat . . .at least it was for her)so my brother could play StarCraft.
With the proper documentation, a 42 year old mother of 3 got Linux completely set up for her needs, and then some, within 2 days. . .
Could she do this in Windows in less time? Probably.
Windows still is better “Integrated” as they call it, and easier to use. . . (Lindows actually did a good job however with trying to bridge the gap between Linux and Windows. . . good job guys. . . I still have a extra 7 gig HDD that I keep it on)However, Linux is catching up, and Yahoo recently released a article announcing their faith in Linux (Do a search, I forget where it is). Remember, Linux is still young, but it has potential. . . Give it time.
So I’m a glutton for spam-punishment from micro$hit. . .
Actually it’s an old email and I don’t feel like getting tons of emails from flamers and fanboys. . . Keep it as a backup
http://www.sharereactor.com has it. Rumor is it has some Unix source in it’s kernel. . . I’m not sure about that, but Microsoft claims that Longhorn is not based on DOS or XP or *nix Distro’s. I have my doubts after witnessing a disturbingly KDE-like interface, and file structure system that used stuff like /mnt/ under a few hiddin ini files. . . aren’t leaked Alpha’s great? I bet Gates shit himself when he saw that
Btw. . .thusfar, I know its a alpha, but unless your really into Visual Basic programming, Longhorn sucks. . . We’ll see if it gets better though.
I had in mind average user who’s in transition from Win XY to some of Linux distros. Where would hers/his Office files, ttf fonts… and other things be residing? I’m sure that 6% of users running only Linux are fine in their little world, but to convert others to Linux side it has to be flexible not Win XY, Linux is fighting to grab a bigger market share not Win XY and so on until I’m blue in the mouth!
I don’t think Linux is a brilliant desktop OS, and I don’t think its parts are particularly well integrated… so I was thinking this might be an interesting article with some depth to it. There are issues with KDE/Gnome, software installation, library dependencies, look & feel and so on.
On balance that makes me dislike using Linux, but I know a duff article when I see one. It doesn’t do everything I need out of the box? That’s about the worst complaint I’ve ever heard! Compared to Windows or MacOS X, most Linux distros have an enormous amount of software incldued. Everything a normal user needs. If this particular journalist needs more, then maybe he should look on the internet. You know, the big thing with all the sites.
the problem with linux IMHO is that the whole system (kernel + DE + XFREE + Whatever) doesn’t seem to be constructed in a coherent manner, it doesn’t seem to have an explicit central direction for the whole system to follow, instead all the different projects have their own goals and in the end someone puts the whole thing together and expects it to look and feel like osx or xp.
ps: i’m sorry for my bad english, im portuguese.
Linux sucks, Windows sucks, Java sucks, Office sucks, .NET sucks, Redhat sucks, and so on. Highly constructive articles and not boring at all! Doh..
Yeah, yeah, I’ve heard it all before. But guess what: It’s my desktop and it works fine.
Now, Windows lovers, the big question is not how good/bad Linux is but how BAD Microsoft’s EULA is. I’d say 99.9% of MS lovers have never read their EULA. You just click “Accept” and drive on. It’s nasty! You give up your rights and give control of YOUR hardware to big business. Is that what you want to support, love and worship? If you do, then you don’t value your rights.
I value mine and refuse to support their EULA anymore! Now lets talk about that when you compare Linux to Microsoft. And don’t pretend it’s no big deal because soon you will find out when you own their 2003 products.
I only use FAT32 for any microsoft compatible partitions. Usually these are just for installs of windows or storage of a few large data files. But I always manage these filesystems with fdisk and mkfs.vfat under Linux because Microsoft’s own tools can not be trusted to work properly on modern hardware.
Linux supports FAT32 very well. To create a partition I usually fdisk it, set it to type c for Win9x FAT32 LBA, and format it with:
mkfs.vfat -F 32 /dev/hdd1
Then mount it like you would any other partition:
mount /dev/hdd1 /mnt/hdd
and have fun.
Why do you use NTFS? If I want security in my filesystem I use an encrypted filesystem under linux, usually something non-standard, like XFS, and always compress and encrypt my secret data.
With FAT32 you get read/write access under both windows and linux with no need to worry about the experimental write support for NTFS or data corruption because of a lack of proper documentation from Microsoft.
I think XFS, ext2, etc. are all very well documented and have been for a long time. Perhaps one of these days Microsoft will be forced into some real competition. But not until we convert some more Windows users.
Imagine how much good M$ could do by attempting, even for one release of their OS, to play fair with all the other OSs around them. That would almost be enough to forgive them of all their monopolistic practices. Heh, I bet most Windows users already have.
It is funny that you got pissed when we linked to the “linux sucks” article, but you said NOTHING about the “Linux ‘Just Works’ For Me” article that is the *main article* for the day on our site. This shows how *you* are unfair on your judgement towards us and that you don’t weigh well what OSNews is about. OSNews is not a Linux fan news site like newsforge or Linuxtoday or like Slashdot. OSNews reports on ALL OSes with the SAME amount of respect
(and disrespect if they do something wrong). So for us, Windows is the same as Linux. And Mac is the same as BeOS. And FreeBSD is the same as Solaris. We don’t give a flying monkey if a party is “good” and the other party is
“evil”. Politics is not our job. Technology is. As long they have OS products we report on them the same way.
I recently loaded the Yoper Linux distro. It automatically loads XWindows and KDE for me, which is great. I’ve used UNIX for years, so using the command line isn’t a problem but finding things on a look-alike operating system can be a problem.
It’s amazing to me that my monitor uses 1024 x 768 everywhere but there. I went into the KDE control panels and there’s no place where I can change the resolution. Why is something that simple not there?
Why in the world should you need to modify the kernel to allow it to read a different file system? It looks as though everytime you want a little functionality in Linux, you need to modify the kernel. There’s something wrong with that.
You give up your rights and give control of YOUR hardware to big business. Is that what you want to support, love and worship? If you do, then you don’t value your rights.
I value [my rights] and refuse to support their EULA anymore!
Speaking of giving up your rights to big business – let me ask you this: How many CDs/DVDs do you own? If you don’t believe in supporting corrupt corporations, then certainly you don’t patronize the RIAA/MPAA, right? What about cable/telephone service? We don’t want to put money in the pockets of the monopolistic cable companies & telcos (many of which I feel make Microsoft look like a non-profit organization by comparison), do we?
Yes, but when I buy a CD/DVD player, part of that purchase goes to copyright owners via the home recording act and gives me rights.
Microsoft’s new addition to their EULA gives them legal right to enter your box and alter ANY software without your permission. They write it to sound like they are protecting us from hackers and terrorist and we ooh and ahh that MS is watching out for us. The the inclusion of “other software” opens the door wide open. That is something your Cable Co (BTW, I don’t have TV) don’t do.
You have a choice here and by letting MS know they have go too far, you can change their view.
That’s funny, My KDE gives me full control of my resolution. I have a Viewsonic VX900 19″ flat screen with a digital video card. I get to pick the native 1280×1024 with 24-bit color and only 16-bit when I click a button for hardware accelerated OpenGL.
It is just as easy as a Mac or Windows. Click to select, click to test and goes. I get digital camera support (kcamera), USB scanner and more all with easy GUI interfaces. Are you sure you are using current versions of things? How about a more popular desktop distribution for starters.
Yes, but when I buy a CD/DVD player, part of that purchase goes to copyright owners via the home recording act and gives me rights.
Fuck the home recording act – have you ever heard of the DMCA? The only reason you’re even able to play DVDs on your Linux box is because somebody was able to crack the encryption.
And if they’re successful at getting ‘policeware’ built into all hardware devices, you won’t be playing shit on your Linux box anymore.
Microsoft’s new addition to their EULA gives them legal right to enter your box and alter ANY software without your permission.
Microsoft can grant themselves permission to kill my grandmother if they want to – doesn’t mean I’m going to let them do it
OS:es are like religons today. I perfer not to have a religon. I use MacOSX on my laptop, Linux on my server and Win2K on my workstation. I’m happy with this configuration.
Linux as a Desktop OS? perhaps, but the linux world has to unite. A linux system isn’t the same as the next linux system. People configure their system so you can’t jump from one computer to another. Configurability is good but it has it’s price.
It was about a year ago I tried Linux as a Desktop OS. Perhaps it’s time to give it another shot.
There is much going on. I begin to disagree with Microsoft more and more. Windows 2000 was a good move but I didn’t like the outcome of XP and I don’t like the way they are taking it with Longhorn, but I shall not pass judgement until I’ve tested it.
This article clearly suggests that KDE/GNOME should be modified to talk directly to the kernel. What about other OSs? Many people from KDE/GNOME are BSD/Commercial *nix users. Kernel integration is not the answer. New major version jumps of the Linux kernel would cause a headache too. What we need for services like this are standards that stream across all *nixes. A cross platform hardware interaction layer needs to exist. Only then can we think about this further integration.
BTW, could we please leave out articles that use the word “sucks” as a pajoritive. It really is childish.
“Why in the world should you need to modify the kernel to allow it to read a different file system? It looks as though everytime you want a little functionality in Linux, you need to modify the kernel. There’s something wrong with that.”
I agree entirely. Try FreeBSD. It uses a microkernel.
FreeBSD doesn’t use microkernel.
http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/kernelcon…
& search for ‘monolithic’
try plan 9 os.
> FreeBSD doesn’t use microkernel.
Did I say FreeBSD? I meant mach. Too much drinking
I couldn’t help but notice the link on the side of the page to “Linux 8.0 CD’s” and “Linux 9 CD’s”. Linux is up to version 9 now, huh? I’m sure Linus Torvalds and Alan Cox would be astounded to hear that, considering that they probably think 2.5 is still in the developer stage. Oh, they mean RedHat 9…oh, yeah, okay. Hrmph. Idiots.
And I especially liked the part in the article where they list “Linux, Unix, *BSD, Solaris”…hahahaha! Another moron who apparently doesn’t understand the concept of UNIX *flavors* and thinks UNIX is a single operating system made by a single vendor just like Windows. Let’s see, Solaris is not UNIX, BSD is not UNIX…ok, which OS *is* UNIX? Is it SCO? Oh no, couldn’t be SCO. SCO has a name of its own, so it’s SCO, not UNIX. Is it SVR4? No, that’s got a name too, so it’s SVR4. I’m sure there’s an OS out there somewhere that’s called ‘UNIX’, and that’s UNIX. Not all these other UNIX systems. They’re just something else entirely, because they have other names. (Retard.) I think just to see how long it takes people to see how stupid it is, I’m going to start making references in public to “NT, XP, Windows, CE, ME, 98, etc…” God knows none of those are really Windows. They all have different names, so how could NT be Windows? NT is just NT. If you want to talk about Windows, please refer to it separately, in deference to the people who have “real Windows.” NT is a “Windows-like” operating system.
Oh, and his thing about how Linux needs less separation of the kernel from the OS components, that was a real hoot, too. You know, if this trend continues, I think if I had a time machine to go forward five or ten years, I’d find a Linux platform in the future that roughly resembles Windows, and has all the same problems (even some that Windows itself has recently outgrown), but gets all of its applications from C/C++ and uses a vaguely POSIX-compliant API. That’s where we’re headed right now, and it’s because of drivel like this.
It used to be that Linux was about the tightest, leanest UNIX-like (must say “UNIX-like” in deference to all those people who have the idea that there’s a “true UNIX” out there called “UNIX”) system you could find. It would run on a 386 with no math coprocessor and 8MB of RAM. It didn’t need graphics. It didn’t need much more than DOS needed, and DOS wasn’t even a proper operating system, but Linux was.
Now we have people who think that Linux is four CD’s worth of RedHat packages. They think that KDE is part of Linux, and call Linux bloated because KDE is bloated. They want support for every driver there is precompiled into the kernel because they can’t fathom loading a driver. And they want it all integrated so it can all crash just as nicely as Windows. Once, there was this idea that we’ll write all the programs nice and small, and they’ll each have a single input, a single output, and a second output just for errors and diagnostic messages. Every program only touches its own resources, and the kernel is small and in control. That was UNIX. Give the weenies some time, and we’ll be losing that. Right now, the only reason I still use Linux for anything is because thankfully, there are distributions like Debian, Slackware, and Gentoo which allow you to set your system up in a sane manner and don’t assume you want it to walk and talk like a Windows box. You can even mess around with the big desktops like GNOME and KDE, and then switch back to something saner like Windowmaker or XFCE or FVWM or just a shell prompt when you’re done seeing how the other half lives. Yes, you can do that in RedHat…but you spend a lot of time undoing what they did. Better to start out with a minimal system and add things you want.
As long as Linux still retains this ability to be set up like a rational UNIX-like (see, I said UNIX-like! happy?) system, I’ll keep using it. If they ever do make it so that the GUI or plug-n-play or some web browser plugin or whatever other foolish thing is integrated into the kernel etc., I will ditch it completely. My main box is already FreeBSD, and I have a lot more faith in the BSD folks to not completely lose their minds this way than I do in the Linux folks these days, Debian/Gentoo/Slackware excepted of course.
I even see in there that he thinks KDE and GNOME should be written to be Linux-specific rather than be cross-platform, too. That’s what we need, more Linux-specific software. Let’s throw C-language portability out the window, nobody’ll ever use that. And network transparency in X, nobody uses that, so let’s get rid of that, too. (It’s scary, but there are some XFree developers talking about doing exactly that right now…<GROAN>). Memory protection? Just slows down the desktop multimedia apps — get rid of it, ’cause if you crash, you can always reboot. And why should we have all these confusing window managers? There should only be one, and it should be in the kernel where it belongs so you can’t change it. Oh, and it should be something big like KDE, because your kernel size can never be big enough. I long for the days of a 90MB Linux kernel, don’t you? All of this stuff should run at kernel priority with direct read/write access to /dev/kmem, to make everyone’s desktop experience fast and responsive. Security isn’t an issue, because you’re smart enough to only download from sites you trust. Oh yeah, we should get rid of shell scripts, too. From now on, if you need to script anything, we’ll offer a GUI scripting development suite that depends on having the GNOME libraries installed that’ll meet everyone’s needs. You’ll love it. We’re going to call it Visual Perl.
Ugh. It makes you want to scream. Thank Bob for BSD.
A Mr. Michael @ pacbell wrote very early in the comment stream:
‘Maybe “osnews.com” can feature some stories about innovative ways people are using their OS of choice to do something fun or interesting in life. Just a thought.’
I’ll tack this out as a reminder to people: If you see an article that looks interesting and seems like it might be worthy to be on the site, forward it on to the OSnews crew! If you want to go further and write something for them, then take a look at their guidelines and go ahead! My experience has been that they’ve been very happy to take submissions.
http://www.osnews.com/submit.php
Yay OSnews!
Yours truly,
Jeffrey Boulier
Linux supporters are smoking dope. There’s no way Linux can challenge Windows on the desktop, Linux is doomed to be server operating system. We need a strong alternative for Windows on the desktop and in my opinion, the only answer is Mac OS X. Apple is the largest UNIX manufacturer in the world, bigger than Sun or Linux. Linux on the desktop, forget it!
Linux: wrong kernel, wrong operating system.
“The bios for mac and pc video cards are different, that’s why it wouldn’t work. You can flash the bios of some pc geforce 2 and 3 cards to work with a mac however.”
Most cards have a ROM containing code compiled (or assembled) for x86. The Mac needs PPC code, so special Mac versions of the cards are required.
The “BIOS” for the new Amigas will include a simple x86 emulator to allow standard cards to function on a PPC-based computer.
Consider how support for other file systems is implemented in Windows.
Windows doesn’t support ReiserFS!
Plug & Play
I use USR external modem attached to the serial port. I start Debian (modem being turned off), do some things and then of course, it is time to surf the net. I power on the modem and voila, everything works. Now imagine the same scenario under WinXP (modem being turned off). First you must go to Device manager and search for new hardware. Then you’re ready to surf.
no user knows or should know the command to mount a drive.
You’re kidding, right?
There are too many small things that desktop users would need and Linux (or distros) doesn’t provide them out of the box.
Things like what? As far as I am concerned, what Linux distros provide is Desktop environment (fluxbox is my favorite), Office tools (OpenOffice.org, KOffice, …), internet apps (mail, browser, news, ftp, irc, …), audio/video apps (xmms, mplayer (not included but you can download it)), e.t.c. Let me make one point. No anti-virus software, no need to defragment a drive, out of the box firewall tools (iptables that by the way, has the abilities of a stateful inspection firewall). Finally, no need reboot! Just think how often you do this in WinXP or whatever. If you dio not do it, the system will became painfully slow, even if it is a very decent one. Linux (Debian in my case) provides much more than WinXP.
Bottom line. Most of these problems can be traced to lack of integration between components in Linux. Until there is some integration Linux is unlikely to gain a foothold in the desktop market.
One of the most stupid things I’ve ever heard! It’ s the choice what the Linux users are looking for. Choices and integration do not fit well. And yes, I’m writing this on WinXP machine (128MB RAM, 1.3 GHz CPU and a ballon tip saying “Virtual Memory too low!”. At this very moment I have Outlook, Opera and Acrobat Reader running).
Linux don’t sucks.. this guy sucks !
If he doesn’t lie Linux, he just have to stay under Windows..
Else, there are some Linux distribution like Mandrake 9.1.. It fixes these problemes..
There is a “clean and simple event mechanism”. It is called /sbin/hotplug, and one can read all about it in section 8 of the man pages.
Linux works for me on my desktop. Why? Because I write code for a living. In 20+ years of professional coding, I have yet to find a better, more productive environment for writing code than a fast POSIX-compliant box that let’s me use the keyboard to build complex tools out of simple ones in seconds.
Frankly, I find this “Linux vs. Windows” on the desktop thing uninteresting because open source software has reached critical mass — there is enough out there to make it interesting to a wider audience, and that creates a demand for more.
I take it as a given that eventually MICROS~1 will fade away — I just don’t know when that will happen. Read “The Innovator’s Dilemma: When New Technologies Cause Great Firms to Fail” by Clayton Christensen, and you’ll see it as plain as day.
Right on target Brent Busby
and this guy will back me up
http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612213654
How this guy can just say “Why Linux Sucks” is just so short-sighted – perhaps he wants to get flamed, but who can be bothered ?
Linux never promised anything – maybe the $300 machines you can get do, but there’s nothing saying “This will work out of the box on first install”
Linux is still in it’s infancy on the Desktop and my guess is you’ve only recently come across Linux or tried to use it – you have absolutely no reference points when it comes to the history of Linux on the desktop.
Drivers – very often, hardware vendors will not release information to Linux developers, so the drivers have to be hacked together – coders spent countless hours of thier time hacking device drivers and have done a damn amazing job so far. Thankfully, hardware vendors are slowly tarting to support Linux more actively.
Heck – I’ve had problems with windows on many machines – drivers don’t work, or are written incorrectly, hardware conflicts crop up etc. etc.
I agree Windows XP is an excellent plug and play system, but that’s because plug and play has been in development by microsoft for 8 years or more !
It took me 40 minutes to install a fully working Redhat 9 system that could :-
1. Play Quake3
2. Edit word documents
3. Play DVD / mp3 / divx
4. Hook up to the net via my Linux firewall
Your just too new to Linux to be bothered to find out more about it.
So your digital camera doesn’t work ?
Well fix it ! – or get someone who can !
I can’t tell you the number of times I’ve helped users out on Windows XP to install devices.
bottom line – you should stick with windows.
I use Linux for 90% of my needs and the modular nature of Linux is what helps keep it stable. If Linux had the integrated nature/design of Windows, there would be problems and Linux would lose its reputation of being stable.
So when folks moan and groan about Linux not being integrated, what they’re moaning about is the fact that the developers are not doing it Microsoft’s way because quite frankly, Microsoft’s design of their OS is so flawed, that even their own execs admit to it and that disclosing it to a third country would put US national security at risk!
So I’ll stick to that “not ready” for the desktop OS!
That’s funny, My KDE gives me full control of my resolution. I have a Viewsonic VX900 19″ flat screen with a digital video card. I get to pick the native 1280×1024 with 24-bit color and only 16-bit when I click a button for hardware accelerated OpenGL.
It is just as easy as a Mac or Windows. Click to select, click to test and goes. I get digital camera support (kcamera), USB scanner and more all with easy GUI interfaces. Are you sure you are using current versions of things? How about a more popular desktop distribution for starters.
If it’s KDE 3.1 on the one you’re using as well, why isn’t there a single control panel for resolution for both? Why should I use a more popular distribution when they should all be supporting the same thing?
Until someone takes charge and makes decisions that give the outward appearance, usability and visibility, a clear presence, it’s unlikely that Linux will be used on more than a few desktops.
Few meaning a few million? I’m ok with that.
> Meanwhile several of my friends had their machines rooted
> yesterday through the most recent Samba exploit.
They should be careful who they let telnet into their box.
If they have samba open onto the internet then they are just plain idiots and deserved to get rooted. If you are going to turn on a service that’s off by default you’d figure there’s a reason its off by default.
All I can say is that normal linux distros don’t start those services by default, you MUST turn them on and take some effort to do so.
With windows many of those services are running by default anyways, people don’t know enough to turn them off.
It is funny that you got pissed when we linked to the “linux sucks” article, but you said NOTHING about the “Linux ‘Just Works’ For Me” article that is the *main article* for the day on our site. This shows how *you* are unfair on your judgement towards us and that you don’t weigh well what OSNews is about.
Did you even bother reading what he said? He said “Linux sucks, Windows sucks, Java sucks, Office sucks, .NET sucks, Redhat sucks, and so on. Highly constructive articles and not boring at all! Doh..”.
He is not just tired of the “Linux sucks” articles but all the “So and so sucks” (Windows, Java, Office, etc) articles that have been cropping up on OSnews lately. And he even states why he’s tired of these–because most of them aren’t constructive.
These kind of articles have little real content, take a very short time to write and are basically just flamebaits.
On a side note–did anyone notice the domain this site was hosted on–www.VBrad.com? The whole site is mostly about Microsoft Visual Basic. Is it a surprise that there would be a “Linux sucks” article there?
Why Linux NOT Sucks as a desktop OS:
Problem #1. RedHat 8 and 9 provide no ability to access WinXP NTFS volumes.
Solution #1. SuSE 8.2 does have ability to access any given windows partition out of the box, but not the otherway ’round: WinXP cannot access any known linux partitions.
Problem #2. Video drivers .. Linux install reverts to a generic video driver. (same thing happen in winXP install tho).
Solution #1. During installation SuSE 8.2 grab the requiered nVidia drivers for working 3D environment. (some other sulution exists, e.g. the latest nVidia driver even easier to install in Linux than XP)
Problem #3. Plug & Play. In Windows, you get the ‘Add New Hardware’ wizard … Unfortunately for Linux, absolutely nothing happens.
Solution #1. Again SuSE linux 8.2 popup ‘A new hardware is detected’ and install the correct driver upon a new USB device insertion and ready to use without reboot.
Problem #4. There isn’t an distro that does everything I need out of the box. (really? then again is winXP does everything You need out of the box?).
Solution #1. SuSE linux 8.2 Professional does everything I need out of the box: Development system (C/C++, fortran, java, etc.) IDEs, compilers, tools, GUI designer, etc. Edutainment (Astromomy, Chemical, Construction, Math, School, etc), Games (3Ds, Arcades, Boardgames, Cardgames, Tactic&Strategy, etc.), Graphics (3D, Gimp, vector drawings, editors, viewers, etc), Internet (communication, controlling, tools, www, development, etc), Multimedia (CD:burning, rip, cover, audio creations), Sound:anything:recordings, players, editors, midi, etc, Video:recording, editing, DVD/Players, etc.), Office suits (Calculation, database, editors, financial, planer, presentation, viewer, word processors, etc), etc. etc.
Wow, productive out of the box! WinXP? Nay!
Problem #5. WinXP specific games/apps.
Solution #1. Wine et al.
Solution #2: Dual boot!
Bottom line: Linux is ready for desktop, it is maturing, and cathing up fast what is lacking (few). The question is: Are you ready for linux? Try it:
http://www.linuxiso.org
Use linux solely is you are man enough!
Have a lot of fun 🙂
There isn’t an distro that does everything I need out of the box. It usually takes several hours of hunting for software to make the system usable if at all
He is right there, I can walk into Best Buy and there is plenty of window software, that is fine if you want to use windows.
Instead you simply run an installation that installs a dynamic device driver (.vxd) to handle foreign file i/o.
I agree there, but the majority of the linus users care nothing about ease of use.
Users don’t want to recompile kernel or its modules
That goes for software to.
the path to enlightenment is never easy.
there are 10 types of people in this world – those that understand binary, and those that don’t.
most people understand the internal combustion engine, but don’t build their own. they can at least open the bonnet and take a look if they desire.
if you don’t ever open your bonnet – how do you change your screenwash? do you upgrade to your next car that already has screenwash installed?
if Linux truly sucks – well, who doesn’t enjoy getting sucked?
if you trolls would just ignore such articles as this, perhaps OSNews would discontinue flooding us with them.