ExtremeTech’s own (and OSNews reader) Jim Lynch is a long-standing Linux and occasional Windows user. He recently got a Mac for the first time, a G5. Did he like it, will he stay to the new platform?
A Linux Geek Embraces Mac OS X
About The Author
Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
Follow me on Twitter @EugeniaLoli
… or are there a lot of people migrating to Mac now that the mini is out?
This is starting to make me very curious although few of the articles mention the differences between Mac OS X and Windows/KDE that are significant to me. Despite all these articles all I’ve learned so far had to do with expose, iTunes and that file manager application.
I’d like to hear more about the OS itself rather than the apps, I don’t know anything about it. Does it have a start menu like Windows? Does it have good scripting support? What about developer tools? I would appreciate a good tour of the GUI and XCode if anyone is planning another Mac article.
Thanks.
“Does it have a start menu like Windows?”
No, but you can make an alias (shortcut) of any folder on the hard drive (or of the hard drive itself and put it in the dock and it will behave like you expect a start menu should.
Once you use the finder though, you’ll realize that Microsoft’s strategy is really the inferior one.
“Does it have good scripting support?”
OMG, it has the best scripting support of ANY operating system IMHO. When tiger comes and automator is made available the already incredible scripting support will be multiplied by 100.
“What about developer tools?”
XCode is a Very sweet development enviornment… not necesserally the best in my opinion, but the fact that its free it runs a close 2nd to my favorite development enviornment, makes it the best overall.
Celerate –
http://www.apple.com/macosx/
I’m sure if you ask questions someone will have answers. For the ones you did ask…no, no Start menu, but it’s not a missed feature, check out AppleScript and the upcoming app Automator, and for developer tools, well, what are you wanting to develop?
Listen,
I switched to a mac 4 years ago. I’m a unix guy, before mac I ran linux, before that sco unix, before that Xenix. While at work I was forced to use windows, so out of sheer desparation I bought a mac laptop from my own money 4 years ago. I’ve never looked back.
At work I’m the only exec with a mac, and I get an endless stream of comments, most of them emphasizing how I’m “different”. Everytime there’s a presentation, and they’re booting the machine for 10 minutes, because it’s hibernating or something, I just smile. Whenever half of the department gets wiped out by a virus I smile. I made a big mistake a few months ago buying a new 3.2Ghz HP windows box for my kids to play games. What a total piece of crap that is.
I really can’t imagine anyone putting up with the MS “technology” after having used a mac for a few weeks. Anyone that I know that’s tried is now on a mac. I think that’s really going to be very bad news for MS. I would really not be surprised if this, over the next few years, spells doom for windows.
This guy bought the same model i did, aside from some options and seamed even less aware of OSX then most would be, i had some previous use of it but not much.
I think his reactions to things were much like what any of us new people to OSX are like. It is frustrating figuring a lot of things out in OSX cause there is only one way to get to it and if you don’t know how to go about it, your tanked. But in time most things get figured out.
The biggy and he picked it up was the lack of a real proper imaged viewer, he nailed that so right on my thoughts. Before buying my mac i just assumed apple would have something even better then the photo viewer that is part of explorer in winXP. To my horror apple has nothing, just a dumb thumbnail tool off to the side in explorer.
iPhoto is not the answer, thats an app, and i don’t want my photos to touch that evil freaking app. I like many other just want a real freaking photo viewer. Preview could be close with some work, but it’s lacking the proper features and is slow as snot at viewing photos.
This is the thing that above all others would make me want to kick steve jobs in *$$ if I met him and was giving some input. It’s just complete in-excusable. It’s not even hard to do, in finder let people click on one photo in a folder and it starts a slideshow in a window like in windowsXP, but add thing to it like being able to do subfolders and such.
At the San Fran Keynote Jobs showed something that looked like this, but it was being used from other apps, and was fullscreen. It might be a step in the right direction, or it might be apple completely screwing up what is needed yet meaning the real solution doesn’t happen. It’s simple, a small window that looks similar to quick time or itunes, forward and back buttons, a delete button, rotate, zoom and a few other basic things to look at pictures, and make it fast. Seams like something they could get right in a day of work by a person or 2.
I think as a new OSX user the thing that continues to blow my mind is just simple missing things, like what is there is fine, but i just expect a lot of obvious things to be there and their is not. So many of apples apps are just missing an obvious thing here or there. Maybe in time they will get there, but to me OSX still seams to be very stripped of anything.
I am in your same position. I am trying to find out more about OS X. I have always liked it. What I know about it is what Steve Jobs has showed in his Keynotes. Tiger looks like a very impressive OS. Even when many of the new gadgets are in Linux already(widgets are very similar to gdesklets and others but more polished). However, OS X looks like having a more user friendly interface. Yes I know that you dont need that if you know the command line, blah, blah, but sometimes you want to get things done faste and without remembering 201 commands (even when it is alot of fun). I know that many of OS X new additions will get to windows eventually, but 2006-07 it is a long way to go). I’ve never used KDE, only Gnome. I will like to know how far are they from OS X. I know that some people will say that is the opposite, but I really dont think they are there. I dont know about KDE, but I do know that Gnome it is still behind. So please it will be nice some feedback from OS X users, not crazy fans please. Just people who have had the chance to try all three platforms: OS X/ GNU/Linux / Windows.
“I’d like to hear more about the OS itself rather than the apps, I don’t know anything about it. Does it have a start menu like Windows? Does it have good scripting support? What about developer tools? I would appreciate a good tour of the GUI and XCode if anyone is planning another Mac article.”
Mac OS X doesn’t have a start menu, it has a dock that can store essentially aliases to programs/folders/documents and sites, you can just put the Applications menu in the dock and right click (yes that’s right Apple only makes 1 button mice but theres nothing stopping you from using a 10-button mouse on OS X if you wanted) and a menu of all the apps will appear.
Mac OS X has many ways to script, theres Apples own scripting language called Applescript and of course you can use UNIX shell scripting just like in Linux, FreeBSD,etc.
Apples Developer tools suite are totally free and IMHO the best out there. You can always get a free ADC account and download updates, source code examples and grab news about upcoming stuff.
This gives you a decent intro to Xcode (although apples improved a lot of things in Xcode 1.5 http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/2003/10/24/panther.html ,but if you were to start programming on OS X the best start would be to read Aaron Hillegass’s book Cocoa Programming on mc OS X ( http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0321213149/102-5867923-09745… ) it’s the best updated book out there right now. Hope that gives you a good start in the right direction.
“what are you wanting to develop?”
I program with C++, using Dev-C++ in Windows and Kate in Linux (KDE). I’m familiar with the Qt toolkit and thats what I use, I’m also learning Allegro.
I’m already aware that Qt and Allegro have Mac versions, I just have no clue what XCode is like because I’ve never even seen a full sized screenshot.
If at some point I should get a Mac and I like it I may decide to learn whatever programming language is native to it (Objective C right?) along with the native toolkit if its nicer than MFC 🙂 .
“The biggy and he picked it up was the lack of a real proper imaged viewer, he nailed that so right on my thoughts. Before buying my mac i just assumed apple would have something even better then the photo viewer that is part of explorer in winXP. To my horror apple has nothing, just a dumb thumbnail tool off to the side in explorer.”
There are two.
iPhoto
preview
iPhoto is the advanced photo viewer
Preview is the quick and dirty one.
You are comparing to picture viewers in the UI.
“The biggy and he picked it up was the lack of a real proper imaged viewer, he nailed that so right on my thoughts. Before buying my mac i just assumed apple would have something even better then the photo viewer that is part of explorer in winXP. To my horror apple has nothing, just a dumb thumbnail tool off to the side in explorer.”
There are two.
iPhoto
preview
iPhoto is the advanced photo viewer
Preview is the quick and dirty one.
You are comparing to picture viewers in the UI.
“Mac OS X doesn’t have a start menu, it has a dock that can store essentially aliases to programs/folders/documents and sites, you can just put the Applications menu in the dock and right click (yes that’s right Apple only makes 1 button mice but theres nothing stopping you from using a 10-button mouse on OS X if you wanted) and a menu of all the apps will appear.”
Yeah, I keep my apps folder in the dock for easy access. Also, you can hold the mouse button down on it and get the same result as right clicking.
On to developing…so you want to develop native apps. Okay, then XCode is probably the way to go…
http://amd.co.at/pat/stuff/xcode.png
http://www.chrisruzin.net/images/uploads/xcode/Xcode_Main.jpg
http://www.happymakinggames.com/switch/2004/4/19/xcode-func-large.j…
http://www.happymakinggames.com/switch/2004/4/19/xcode-multi2-large…
(btw, I just pulled those off Google)
http://www.apple.com/macosx/tiger/xcode.html
http://developer.apple.com/
you apparently did not read the rest of my post, neither of those is the answer. Calling iPod an advanced picture viewer is insane. I suppose its fine for those who can stand iPhoto organizing their photos, but many people are able to organize things on their own the way they want them. And I don’t want to be bring photos into iPhoto. Not to be mean, but people need to get it through their head that iPhoto is not the answer here, thus why there is a need for something else. What apple needs is an extension from finder for this, not a full blown app.
“What apple needs is an extension from finder for this, not a full blown app.”
Agreed. Seeing as they have the basis for it in the upcoming Mail app, adding it to the Finder in a modified way shouldn’t be a big deal.
To show image thumbnails in finder all you have to do is go to:
View -> Show View Options and check “show Icon Preview”
Easy as pie.
what is wrong with a program that takes care of your Photos?I happen to like not having to deal with the file system for things like Photos and Music. My time is valuable and the less time I have to spend on managing things like photos the better.
iPhoto 2005 will kick butt because it will also catalogue the Quicktime movies that people take with their digital cameras… makes that camera function actually worth using 🙂
I really didn’t like this review at all. I’ve read many of these “firs time” Mac user reviews, and this has got to be by far one of the worst. All these Mac basher comments inserted all over by some guy named Loyde. All these baseless comments like “menu bar should be in the application not the top of the screen”. Read some articles on GUI design principals.
I just noticed the section on games, I own a copy of Rise of Nations Gold Edition for Windows and I noticed Rise of Nations is also listed on this page http://www.apple.com/games/features/
Does that mean that I should be able to play the copy I already own OS X, or would I need to purchase a special version for that?
“Does that mean that I should be able to play the copy I already own OS X, or would I need to purchase a special version for that?”
It probably means you’ll have to buy a Mac version, but some games ship with both versions on the same disc. Check and see if the CD and/or box has an OS X or Apple logo anywhere.
“Check and see if the CD and/or box has an OS X or Apple logo anywhere.”
There’s no Apple logo on the box and the minimum requirements say it needs “Windows XP/2000/ME/98”, unless OS X has some sort of emulation or compatibility layer I guess I’ll have to get a second copy of the game if I get a Mac.
In the article i can read
“And why the hell can’t I rename a file or folder that’s sitting on my desktop by right-clicking on it? Or even single clicking and holding? How stupid that I have to do it in the Finder or through an application.”
You can do that without any problem. Just click on the file and the text field will automatically be ready to enter the new name. You can do that whereever you want in the system, the finder, and on files and folders siting on the desktop. Its not a right cliking but a left one!!!!
And about to manage photos from the finder, i think its stupid to do that. The finder is a file management, no a photo management interface. Why to put some organizing capabilities in the finder when you can access them through a specially designed application for that. Users, to manage photos, need an application that handle all the photos related tasks, in a consistant interface. Building this at the level of a file manager is not the good approach because everything gets confusing and messy. An application dedigned for managing photos will be more effective for that, and iPhoto allows users to deal with their photos however they want, and in the way they want. iPhoto allows to have a unique interface for dealing with photos, from managing, organizing them to edit, correct and print them. Why a hell to build this in a file manager.
Providing this in an application also allows to enhance the features of the app more quickly and easily as it would be if it is buit in the file manager of an os, because it means that for new features, …wait for the next os release…..That’s sucks.
Now to view quickly photos available in the system the finder already allows to access them rapidly via the pictures folder that you can put whereever you want or in the lateral bar of the finder window. You can view a preview of the photo or any image in a consistant inteface.
The approach of apple is to provide features where they should be and not putting them in a massy way everywhere.
Also Tiger with Spotlight will dramatically enhance the way to manage any documents as it is also built inside the finder, and the spotlight interface will also allow to view images and photos in a more robust and easy to use manner.
Apple appears to have the same vicious monopolizing attitude than Microsoft – but at least they do it flair and style.
I thought it was pretty mean how they’ve dealt with RealNetworks.
Also I keep hearing comments from Mac users how GPL software is viral – is that the consensus?
My other gripe is Mac-centric businesses charging a fortune for software that is meant to be beneficial for people and educational: such as Revolution. When even Borland allows you to use JBuilder or Kylix for free – for non-commercial use.
But there is one advantage to Macs – you can have both Linux (Yellow Dog) and Mac itself. After all Linux is just the OS. Mac is the hardware. Perhaps next time people should be pedantic and compare Mac OS X and KDE say.
I am seriously wonder if the big guys at Apple sees Linux as an ally or an enemy. Its hard to decide. On one side you have things like Apple never releasing their QuickTime Player for Linux. On the other you have sponsored projects like Darwin.
I hope they never turn into an SCO and go after Linux.
But one thing is true now that minis are out. Microsoft will get further squeezed from both sides.
What we need is more games for Mac and Linux. MS and its allies obviously bribe companies into not porting their games across. That is way too evident.
Because should that happen – the Desktop will finally be over.
The quality of the article aside, telling someone to ‘read some articles on GUI design principles’ when they have trouble with a GUI is absurd. If the design principles produce an unappealing GUI, then the principles need to be thrown out! Software design isn’t Platonic philosophy. If your principles produce a product that your customer doesn’t like, your principles are wrong.
While I understand that to some degree the particular issue of where the menus are placed is a matter of personal preference, I also think that menu placement in OS X is frustrating to many people. It’s certainly the most common complaint I hear about the GUI. Of course, more often the students in the university lab I work in don’t even notice — they just leave their applications running, thinking they’ve closed them because they clicked on the red dot and the window disappeared.
OS X may have the best GUI around (I think it’s arguable), but some areas could use work, and pointing to articles to show that Apple has used good design principles won’t change that.
that was meant to read
The Desktop war will finally be over.
(how do I edit now? lol)
Maybe its because I’ve recently read the Apple reviews on AnandTech but, the writers at ExtremeTech have this uncanny ability to come off as 15 year-old boys who’ve consumed an entire chocolate cake, 4liters of Jolt Cola, and a healthy dose of cocaine/amphetamine.
As with most of these review articles, they have a way of describing the author more than the item being reviewed. In this case, Mr. Lynch has the opinion that if he can’t figure out how to do something in 1-2 seconds without having any experience with the platform — it obviously means that its not possible to do it and should be fixed. While the way he over reacts to not having figured out that merely pressing “enter” will let him rename files/folders might be entertaining to his usual readers its a rather large journalist drop-off from what most people with $3000 to spend on a computer are used to reading.
dude… the design principles used by apple are SCIENTIFICALLY discovered… just because some one gets proficient at the windows way does not mean that the windows way is the best way.
crimany… you think apple should toss their UI design principles for that ow Microsoft’s? are you serious?
The problem with things like iPhoto is it’s for people who are lazy/don’t have there own systems. It’s meant for people who just don’t care. I hate how it goes about organizing things. If you don’t care, then it’s perfect. But if you have your own way you like things then it’s massively pointless. I don’t like trying to figure out what it did with thing.
I like things to be well integrated and work, apps should work with each other and such as good as they can. But one thing i don’t want any app doing is managing my files. Leave them alone! I will do with them as i want in finder. I have similar issues with iTunes, it’s designed for those who don’t care and are just going to let itunes do whatever with it, It penalizes those who are organized. I even have my stuff saved in the same structure as itunes does, but i don’t want it messing with them, but it still ends up coming short of some things, like it wanting to dump everything into one folder (if you have it set to move things to itunes music folder). Then you loose total control. If your like me you have your music in a couple categories, things like cds you ripped, stuff downloaded from itms, and old mp3s you downloaded. I keep them separated for obvious reason, they shouldn’t be mixed. I’m slowly replacing them with all cds i own and have ripped. Now if i want to say completely remove my mp3 folder from itunes (slowly working towards that), no such luck, unless you want to remove each song individually in itunes, but it doesn’t let me go in and delete that folder from the library. I have to delete the library and start over.
Apps that suck all your files into their little world and way are ok for some, mainly basic users who are also the same time that have every file on their computer saved in one folder. But if you are a organized user who has spent the time to develop a sound system of organizing your stuff you don’t want apps messing with things. I keep everything on a separate HD, no file is saved within OSX. My time is very important to me too, and thats why i don’t want to spend it fighting my computer wonder what on earth it has done.
great article except for the useless comments by that Lloyd dude who seemed to complain about OS X not having games, while not bringing up how many more there are on OS X compared to Linux, he seems to pick and choose his complaints about OS X versus Windows/Linux depending on however he thinks he could actualy prove his point – LAME. Great artice shame about those comments.
To best explain why iPhoto is not the same as a real photo viewer aside from the obvious, saying iPhoto is a photo viewer would be like calling Photoshop a photo viewer, sure you can view folders in it, but it’s not something you want to use for that job. It’s all about simplicity.
And no, the thumbnail viewer in finder as it is, is not the same. Take an app like preview, make some tweaks, speed it way the heck up, and integrate into finder and your there.
Like mentioned tiger seams to have something like this, but wether it is a stand alone thing or something that can be used within finder, and has an option to run inside a window and not full screen is yet to be seen.
Apple port QT and iTunes for Linux – Now!
Ok done.
I am sure that will have an impact
(I think apple did a pact with MS .. ie gives us IE / Office and we will not give Linux QT / iTunes)
They can have IE back, it’s a joke on OS X!
”
dude… the design principles used by apple are SCIENTIFICALLY discovered… just because some one gets proficient at the windows way does not mean that the windows way is the best way.
”
The problem is that most of those test are very old, and come from the days of running apps full screen and one app at a time. Much like one would in the 80s or early 90s. Then the mac way was very good, but as screen sizes have increased, individual window sizes for apps have shrunk (relative to screen size) and people are using more and more apps at once, the apple way begins to fail. The time and effort spent going from an app at the bottom or your screen and going up to the menu bar is far too much. Also like any test it’s all about how you set up the app. MS spends ton of money on the same type of research as apple. And as it is, every Main OS since has done it like windows, most unix desktops, beos and such all follow the same basic way. Don’t you think Be would have done it the apple way if it was truly best? Apple still tries to cling to anything they can to keep the one button mouse. They do this cause thats their heritage, they don’t want to leave that. A 2 button mouse with both set to “click” is no more confusing to a person then a one button set to “click” but it means people can set it to being useful instead of leaving it in the box.
Not to say everything in apple is flawed, lots of things get it right. but some things like this are dated, there should be an option to attach mini menu bars to apps.
Granted I prefer the as is way over horrible failures of design like Quicken or Xcode that makes a huge growth onto the menubar, ugh.
“Read some articles on GUI design principals.”
If I like start menus but the article on gui design principals tells me that most people don’t like start menus, that isn’t going to make me say, “Oh, I guess I really don’t like start menus.” The guy was stating his opinion, not offering scientific evidence.
And for the argument that the articles on gui design principals are SCIENTIFICALLY PROVEN AND MOTHER APPROVED, to say that is to simply read a headline and say, “Well that was good enough for ME!” All those articles scientifically prove is that the MAJORITY of people prefer some aspect to be a certain way. That doesn’t mean that someone who likes start menus is wrong. It means that they’re out of the norm. Does that mean that they shouldn’t be accomodated for? THAT is the argument.
umm… yes it does mean that. but that fact that the start menu is learned behavior means that no one is set to think one way or the other,
BTW Brad… Vector based UIs would fix your problem pronto.
For those who use X11 on OS X, gFTP is indeed available.
>>I thought it was pretty mean how they’ve dealt with RealNetworks.
Oh my heart bleeds. Poor, poor RealNetworks, inventors of the bloated, call-home, advertising-ridden, pop-up launching, system-destroying media player that all other media players on Windows have attempted to copy, except maybe Winamp.
On a note more related to the article, I just got my first Mac yesterday, a Mac mini, fully maxed out and a 23″ Apple Cinema Display. Oh. My. Freaking. God. This is every bit as exciting as my first computer. OSX is incredible. My one gripe with it is that even with a Mac and OSX, you still only get the free “bother me about upgrading” version of QuickTime Player. I thought for sure you would get a version of Quicktime with the OS that would let you do full screen without paying extra! Geez, even Windows comes with an almost full-featured media player out of the box. But whatever, I found a serial on Limewire quick enough. Really though, that’s inexcusable. All the amazing, valuable software Apple includes with OSX and they can’t give you a media player that can do full screen and not ask you for cash every time you launch it?
I have tried to love the mouse, I really have. It’s beautiful. So sleek, so sexy. It’s just so very, very impractical. I don’t miss the right mouse button, ctrl+click or click-and-hold is fine, and you don’t really *need* to right-click in OSX anyway. What drives me back to my Logitech is the lack of a scroll wheel. Now that we’re in the era of the Web, Apple not including scroll functionality on the mouse is really inexcusable. Even my mom can handle a two-button scrollwheel mouse with ease and she’s a baby boomer! If they could just include some cool rub-scroll technology on the mouse similar to the iPod scrollwheel, that would eliminate a lot of people’s frustration with it, and Steve could still keep his acid vision of a one-button utopia intact. (WTF is with that anyway? Are we all retarded and need to click with our entire hand because we can’t handle moving two fingers independently?)
But whatever. Those two minor issues are easily rectified and I’m having a great time with my Mac. It isn’t just a great, easy to use, silent, tiny system. It’s also a computer that impresses your friends because it’s so freakin’ hip and cool. When was the last time anyone was impressed by a computer on your desk? 1994?
>For those who use X11 on OS X, gFTP is indeed available.
As are plenty of great free native gtp clients, this article is a little like the other one on the site about the mini in that the guy makes judgements about a lack of software for OS X without knowing where to look. If I was to come to Linux from Windows and install a distro I’m sure I’d have no idea where to get apps from unless they were on the CD/DVD. Like any OS OS X takes a bit of getting used too, when I jumped ship after waiting years for the so called Linux desktop it took me about 2 weeks to come to grips with the way OS X worked, I’m glad I spent a lot of time with Linux/BSD as it gave me a grounding in *nix based OSes that transfered very well to OS X.
In my last 24 hours with OSX I have had to scour the web to find a few essential (IMO) freeware utilities that can help you do what you want to do with OSX. I’ll post them here so others don’t have to go through all the searching and testing I did.
SharePoints (http://www.hornware.com/sharepoints) is an absolutely essential utility for sharing folders that are on an external hard drive attached via USB or Firewire. OSX itself only lets you share directories in your Home folder. SharePoints is a very powerful Samba front-end that will let you share anything you want, just like Windows, without having to edit the smb.conf file manually.
TransparentDock (http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/6490) lets you remove the background from the Dock so your icons look like they’re floating on the bottom of your screen. Very cool, very clean. Essential. (It also lets you set the tranparency level as a percent if you don’t want it 100% clear like I do.)
BTV (http://www.bensoftware.com) lets you view video from any video input device you have attached to your Mac. Ideal for playing Gamecube on your Cinema Display, for example.
Broadband Optimizer (http://www.enigmarelle.com/sw/BroadbandOptimizer) changes UNIX settings on your Mac (similar to the MaxMRU registry settings in Windows) to optimize your Mac for broadband. By default, OSX is just like Windows in that it assumes modem connectivity and is set to download data in tiny chunks instead of huge blocks like you want if you have broadband. It really does make a difference in download speeds and web page display time.
gfp – wtf FTP even
Apple port QT and iTunes for Linux – Now!
Ok done.
I am sure that will have an impact
(I think apple did a pact with MS .. ie gives us IE / Office and we will not give Linux QT / iTunes)
—————-
i doubt it will happen one day.
luckily quicktime video works on my linux system.
i cant stream windows asf music sample on mtv anyone?
itunes? = device + drm lock in = ipod no thanks…
due to my ‘fate'(work) i have to deal with win/gnu all the time let alone mac…
Hey my heart bleeds too.
And QuickTime player on WIndows is pretty much system destroying.
It’s more for Matilda that I am requesting these features – she kept nagging me! lol
@spiers
the itunes also not for me – i would never buy an ipod and if given one would never use it.
its just two things to popularize linux a bit more – the vast majority of people still thinks Linux is console based or is an extremely difficult OS to operate that requires a PHd in Electronic Engineering.
Why do people grossly exagerate? – a BSc in Computer Science? that is more like it
Man I really don’t know how you organize your mp3s but it shows from your writing that you don’t know how to use iTunes and how it works. It makes organizing AND accessing organized music *so* simple that I don’t really understand why whould anyone choose a file manager to manage music instead of a music manager? Come on, it’s build exaclty for that. I can do all the stuff you mentioned in iTunes with ease and so much more.
Okay this guy is a newbee, and that very much. Renaming of files is easy as pie in OS X just click on the name or press enter.
There are many free ftp clients for the mac. Cyberduck not only allows you to use dialogs, you can Drag and Drop files from the finder to the server window of Cyberduck!
As for free clients with two columns: Fugu and LiFTP are your choice.
Drag and Drop is one of the best things in OS X. Use it always, even with Exposé: Press F11 to go to the desktop, grab a file, press F9, drop the file in one of the windows. Easy.
The most obvious reasons, why there is only one menubar on top of the screen are these:
– You can’t use more than one menu at a time. If every Window has its own menu, you only get increased screen clutter.
– You don’t have to aim for the menu. Just move your mouse to the top of the screen. That’s good for motoric memory.
– Every app has a menu. Some apps on Windows and Linux don’t provide menus. This makes it easy to find functions otherwise hidden in rightclick-menus.
For a very good and detailed comparison of usage and functions of OS X and Win XP visit http://www.xvsxp.com . Consider a donation.
i’m still looking for a decent filemanager. no, finder won’t show nice tree structures. if you have a complex tree directory structure, there is no way to easily manage it like in windows or linux.
The complaint about not having a picture viewer integrated into the finder is ridiculous. If you don’t like the Preview.app or iPhoto just download http://www.aquafiles.com/pages/Graphics/Viewer/something like Archer and place it in your dock. Choose the files you want to view and drag and drop them on the icon in the dock.
If you hae a windows PC, which you use very much (as I do) would it make sense to get a PowerBook? I mean, ofcourse considering you’d need a laptop as well, to take to work and for presentations etc. But the main question is: how will it cooperate with my PC and my handheld stuff. Can I sync Outlook agenda etc to a Mac?
Office 2004 for the Mac was just released. It comes with Word, Excel, Powerpoint and Entourage. Entourage is the Mac version of Outlook, and yes, it will synch with your Outlook address book.
More on it here: http://www.apple.com/macosx/applications/office/
If you’re frustrated with the finder, or want quick access to all your applications, try
<a href=”http://quicksilver.blacktree.com/“>Quicksilver
You won’t have to look for files again, and you won’t have to add an application folder to your dock.
We Mac users are nothing more than everyday folk that just want to use our computers in peace and quiet. </b
The Mac is not even at room temperature yet and he’s ‘we Mac users’…
.
If this goes on for very much longer, the newcomers are going to boo us old-hands for not liking the platform enough or not giving it enough praise. First we made too much noise about it, now we’ll be making too little noise about it, you’ll see.
People have already commented on file renaming and iTunes, but I just have to say this. If you’re using your file system to manage your MP3 collection instead of using iTunes you need to go out and get yourself a serious clue. Pick up two rocks and keep banging them together.
You don’t want to hook up an iPod? Fine. You don’t want to buy music at the ITMS? Again, fine. But if you have a large MP3 collection and you’re hell-bent on not using iTunes then you’re missing a point or two.
iTunes is a kick-ass app for managing your collection and playing music. It’s REALLY easy, very slick and great fun to use. I run iTunes ALL the time. It doesn’t do a great many things [although, it does have quite a bit of functionality] but it does them very well.
I have Media Player 10 on this box. The technical term for this application is ‘crock of shit’. If you know of a better way to manage and play music on your Mac than iTunes then please, please, please, tell me what it is. The author will probably win a Nobel prize for it.
Scripting: PHP, Python, AppleScript [can’t wait for tiger to let the automator loose on my system]. All that and more on your system. Ready to use. Punch up the terminal and start typing.
On GUI design decisions: you guys are the johnny-come-lately’s. You didn’t bother to look at the system for 20 years and mocked us who did. Please be so kind to take it as it comes now that you too finally evolve. You don’t get to complain, I’m sorry. [I’m just begging for it, no?
]. We may ask Steve to put the ‘bliss’ screen on the Mini’s desktop so you won’t feel too much out of place.
I work with XP, I don’t complain about the Start menu. Don’t try to change the way I work with a Mac because it doesn’t suit your delicate sense of screaming chaos.
Thank you.
Bugger, forgot to close the tag. Sorry.
Stop trying to fashion your new PowerMac G5 into a XP box.
It’s all relative
First of all:
Simply because YOU don’t like iPhoto that doesn’t mean that it is not a VERY nice solution for viewing/organizing pictures… It gets the job done VERY quick and VERY easy EVEN if you care to organize your pics in multiple ways! Especially, the new 2005 version is AMAZING!
No ways I hear you say for viewing pics FAST and EASY? Well, if you never used Mac OS X 10.3 (aka Panther) I will give you that… Simply because of your ignorance I’ll give you that…
But guess what? Your ignorance on this matter isn’t what OS X offers! Here are at least 4 FAST and EASY ways of viewing pictures and in some cases A LOT more than that!
Follow the white rabbit:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v631/hulkaros/PreviewApp.jpg
Yeap! The above pic is from the Preview app that you find lacking things like rotation and stuff… Take a closer look please and DON’T lose your tongue… We have 3 more pics down the road :p Also, I may add that I can view say 4 pics of relatively high res (1280×854) and 1.1 MB in size in a blink of an eye -and then some- in my AluBook G4/1.25… Some advice on using Preview:
Select multiple files or one by one and double click on them. Preview recognizes lots of different picture formats and even PDF files… Its speed in Panther is GREATLY improved over previous OS X versions that it is like day and night of very north areas of our planet
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v631/hulkaros/ColumnView.jpg
Column View! No comment! (apple -command- key + 3)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v631/hulkaros/IconView.jpg
Icon View with Show icon preview enabled in scalable in real time sizes of up to 128×128, thank you very much… (apple -command- key + 1)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v631/hulkaros/GetInfo.jpg
Get Info for any given file (well most of them) and in there preview its contents… (apple -command- key + I)
Anyway, there are other ways too and I already lost too much time over this… 90% of the time here in OSNews.com people who have never actually used certain OSes and their apps other than just taking a look here and there and still managing to trash them and spread FUD all over the place
I find Windows XP preview useful and the majority of Linux distros out there do that job just fine too!
Anyone, mumbling about their solutions in picture viewing (and some mild management) is simply ignorant and/or carries vendettas against other solutions… I feel sorry for them and for the people that happen to believe them
Peace!
He should have allowed himself to get more accustomed to Mac OS X. Subscribe to the macosxhints rss feed. Read some of the mac fora. It is just plain wrong to say that you can’t have thumbnails in the finder, or can’t rename files on the desktop. Learn to use drag and drop to accomplish certain tasks, like uploading files in cyberduck.. And who needs a start-menu if you have QuickSilver?
Oh, and one more thing: don’t let “loyd” edit your article, he is bloody annoying when he constantly interrupts the flow of the article.
The style of the review was so amateurish. The reviews from AnandTech were much better written. Unfortunately, most computer articles/reviews are written like ExtremeTech’s.
I had much the same opinions as this guy when I started using my iBook. It’s understandable to be a little weary coming from the Linux/Windows world because Macs are so different. After a month or so, I got used to the way Macs work and I fell in love with it (as much as someone could fall in love with a computer).
This guy gets paid to write these articles. He should try to be as professional as possible. It sounded like a slashdot post by some 14 kid who got a new Power Mac for Christmas.
Computer journalism is virtually non-existent. I suppose, the same could be said for journalism in general though…
Try here
http://episteme.arstechnica.com/eve/ubb.x/a/tpc/f/8300945231/m/6790…
They’ve consolidated quite a few links and info for new users. The forum has a lot of helpful posters, and a great deal of info.
http://episteme.arstechnica.com/6/ubb.x?a=frm&s=50009562&f=83009452…
Sure, make all three of the control buttons green, why don’t you.
Show off
I submitted such article
but it was rejected as too fanciful
[i[And why the hell can’t I rename a file or folder that’s sitting on my desktop by right-clicking on it? Or even single clicking and holding? How stupid that I have to do it in the Finder or through an application. Good lord, that’s just simple file management for Pete’s sake. Come on Apple, get with the program! I did enjoy how easy it was to turn a folder on my desktop into an archive just by right clicking on it and choosing the option from the menu.[/]
Just click on the NAME of the file and you can rename it when it’s on your Desktop. Somethings are so painfully obvious (click the name to change it) that people sometimes over look them.
I refuse to read that site – why do they break articles into 4/5 small paragraphs of text, but give me several hundred lines of links and ads?
Not going to do it – ExtremeTech I boycott you!
Windows forces users to pay money for their every software. MAC forces users to pay money for their every hardware piece. One is software monopoly, another is hardware monopoly. And developing s/w and h/w by same company(apple) is not a good business strategy!!
And how exactly should iTunes and iPhoto manage your music and photographs if they don’t organize the actual files themselves? If you are managing their locations yourself, are you then going to complain when the apps cannot magically know where they were moved to?
I understand you are a control freak. Most Linux users I have observed are control freaks: want to know what every little bit of hardware is doing at any given time. That’s okay. I guess when you can’t control your life it’s comforting to have something that you can control.
First of all, I said nothing about Microsoft. I’m not talking about people who are ‘proficient at the windows way.’ I’m about people who are for the most part completely computer illiterate. We get people who have never used a computer before. The Mac GUI isn’t as intuitive for them as I would have thought. I’m not saying it’s worse than Windows. I personally think it’s much better in most ways, although it has features that annoy the hell out of me.
As for design principles being ‘scientifically discovered’ — there are some distinctions that need to be made here. Social science isn’t physics. Design principles aren’t natural law. I could give a damn what survey data says; if the users have a hard time using your GUI, it’s for crap. If someone ‘scientifically discovers’ that I really hate cheeseburgers, I’m not going to stop eating them! Screw the science. User-centered design over ‘scientifically discovered principles’ any day of the week, as far as I’m concerned.
i will order a G5 just as soon as i win the lottery…
Obviously the author did not RTFM. Not only that he didn’t even bother to search the web for and problem he encounter. Anyway the author is not aware that Mac OS X is not Windows and its not Gnome or KDE. He has to learn the Mac way or change platforms. Simple as that.
…even tho’ some of what he said rankled me. I think it was a nice offset to some of the recent reviews that seemed a little too “lovey-dovey”.
I AM a mac user, have been for nearly 20 years now. OS X is not as consistent as the original Mac OS was, but it is an excellent attempt of a hybrid between the power of NEXTSTEP and UNIX and the Mac OS.
As with the reviewers (and most users) I have become more enamored with OS X over time, as I use it. I certainly prefer it to XP and Linux (gnome/kde). I’m not slamming either because I absolutely love gnome and xp isn’t half bad.
But I love my macs with OS X. I don’t think I will ever be without one again, unless the company goes under. Even then I will continue to use it because I still use BeOS as well.
But back to the review… there ARE some differences and quirks in OS X that a PC/XP user would be confused by or find frustrating. I think one of the great things about the Mac OS X is that it has some very handy and powerful keyboard shortcuts. Learn those and any issues you have with the single menu bar at the top of the screen and the “odd” dock will vanish.
(I’m all over the place with this post, eh?)
Anyway, I enjoyed the review and found it refreshing and I think it does touch on some of the immediate frustration switchers would feel.
Mike
You are right. The author stated as much at the beginning. I think he was trying to be a typical plug it in and go at it user coming from another platform. He identified the things that he found confusing from a brand new (I don’t need to read no stinkin’ manual) user POV.
I think it was a good review because it points out some things that could be made clearer and simpler to figure out for new users. And that IS what Apple is about, making things as easy for the user as possible. They have largely succeeded at that! Not a single Windows, Linux, OS/2 or any other user would deny that Macs are easy to set up (I mean look at their directions 1. plug in, 2. turn on, 3. follow on-screen instructions, 4. you’re done!)
So, why not take a moment to review non-Mac users attempts at figuring out the OS and make it as obvious and simple as everything else about the Mac.
I hate sounding like I might be anti-mac or something, because that would be farthest from the truth!! I have 3 macs in my house (all running and used) and I recently sold my G4 to buy a mini, which I am still waiting for.
As I said in my previous post, I’ll ALWAYS have a mac for my primary computer.
Mike
Here take your Thorazine.
Steve won’t give QuickTime to anyone, other than the Streaming Server and for good reason. It’s the key component to the Digital Hub.
Apple has been offered Billions for it and they’ve turned it down, wisely I might add.
QuickTime 7 once again puts them in the lead and with all the converging markets from 3G to HD you’ll soon understand the decisions why not to give it to Linux.
Microsoft has not stake in determining what Apple does with QuickTime. In fact, the Antitrust case specifically referenced their strong-arm tactics that now on record would quickly have their asses in a sling if they tried such a tactic today.
you make those claims about a computer illiterate person? you are absolutely clueless then regarding UI design.
it is one thing to claim that the Mac UI is relatively unintuitive for a windows user because it is different enough from what they know, but to say that it is just as unintuitive to a neophyte user is ridiculous!!!
the menu is always in the same place for every app… you really don’t think that helps a new user who has never used a mouse?
you let your windows/Linux bias show a bit there… consistency is what you want when getting to know something for the first time and the windows/Linux world’s way of he menu being in a different place all the time or in unconventional ways to access it, or not there at all is not a good way to deal with the situation… not to mention Office applications!!!!! each app has a different menu structure!!!!
ExtremeTech used to be one of, if not the most anti-mac website on the planet a few years back. Nice to see things changing over there.
>>User-centered design over ‘scientifically discovered principles’ any day of the week
What do you mean by that? How do you think those user-centered designs are found out … by scientific methodology, of course. Apple did alot of scietific research on user behaviour to come up with their user interface priciples. That’s why macs are easy to use.
Don’t tell me Microsoft spent alot of money on GUI research, the only things that made out of their lab was Microsoft Bob. Now that’s a great innovation there wasn’t it …
> (I think apple did a pact with MS .. ie gives us IE / Office and we will not give Linux QT / iTunes)
I kinda doubt that. I’m with you — I’d like to see iTunes and Quicktime on Linux — but I bet Apple just doesn’t see much profit in it.
Rhythmbox is an acceptable iTunes knock-off (other than it not being able to access the iTunes store, which isn’t a deal-breaker). You can find Quicktime codecs if you look.
I read a bit more of the article and I can’t help but laugh at his newbie mistakes…WOW! You’ve given every newbie in the world a chance to speak about OS X. Now why not give a Power User a chance to show your audiance what OS X in capable hands can really do!
Life must be wonderfull when having plenty of do.I imagine a dual G5 with both Gentoo and MacOsX besides my tweaked from source FreeBSD roadrunner box.Can’t hardly wait till my mini arrives 🙂
> Windows forces users to pay money for their every software. MAC forces users to pay money for their every hardware piece.
It could be argued that M$ is a monopoly, so there’s some “force” involved in propagating their OS on pretty much every PC that’s for sale.
But Apple (“Mac” is a brand, not a company name) doesn’t force anyone to buy anything. They *offer* a variety of hardware and software for sale. You’re free to buy something else.
Duh … of course they charge for hardware. So did whoever you bought your current box from.
“i’m still looking for a decent filemanager. no, finder won’t show nice tree structures. if you have a complex tree directory structure, there is no way to easily manage it like in windows or linux.”
Of course you can see the file tree in Finder windows: just use one of three methods to select “Column View”. Under the “View” menu select “Column View”; or press Command-3; or click the extreme right-hand section of the view widget in the window toolbar. You can also open the “View Options” window (Command-J) and set Finder windows to open in column view.
” Also I keep hearing comments from Mac users how GPL software is viral – is that the consensus?”
Certainly not a consensus.
“I am seriously wonder if the big guys at Apple sees Linux as an ally or an enemy. Its hard to decide. On one side you have things like Apple never releasing their QuickTime Player for Linux. On the other you have sponsored projects like Darwin.
I hope they never turn into an SCO and go after Linux.”
I like to think of Linux as more ally than enemy. Example – I’d much rather use Safari then IE.
“The problem with things like iPhoto is it’s for people who are lazy/don’t have there own systems. It’s meant for people who just don’t care. I hate how it goes about organizing things. If you don’t care, then it’s perfect. But if you have your own way you like things then it’s massively pointless. I don’t like trying to figure out what it did with thing.”
On the contrary, I have a system that works inside iPhoto. You just have to learn to make iPhoto automate your system. And about your problem with apps moving your files around, you should set them to only link to the files and not move them. The app will keep up with where you move the file, and you’ll be able to use the apps and the Finder to organize things.
The menubar at the top has nothing to do with screen space or how far you have to move the mouse. The menus are at the top so that they are always in the same place, thus moving to them becomes instinct and you don’t have to think about where they are on the screen. Also being on the top means you can slide the mouse up there very quickly and not have to worry about where to stop. Use it for a few weeks and it makes a ton of sense.
“Really though, that’s inexcusable. All the amazing, valuable software Apple includes with OSX and they can’t give you a media player that can do full screen and not ask you for cash every time you launch it?”
They are rearranging what the standard and pro versions do in QuickTime 7.
Anyway, I’d like to see a follow up article in about a month. There are a lot of things in that article that are much easier to do/use that what was actually done. I have a feeling that once those guys get used to things they will have a different perspective.
> Now why not give a Power User a chance to show your audiance what OS X in capable hands can really do!
Sounds like a great idea. I would love a power user review, and I am sure everyone else would. Why don’t you whip one up and enlighten us?
Guess I managed to bring out a lot of angry crazy mac people.
Listen, I’m not a control freak, someone tried to make me sound like a linux user, i can’t stand linux, i’m perfectly happy with the os doing things, I just don’t want an app organizing files, thats not it’s job thats the job of the user and things like finder. If you found you like iphoto and such, fine, but that doesn’t mean everyone should like it. For me it would be good if it was the same app, but let me use it without it having anything to do with organizing my photos, in other words just a photo app that just does photo editing, no organizing. I’d be happy to just open it up and edit a photo or do whatever and then close it and had my stuff saved right where i put it. Instead though you have this awful mess of it putting photos in it’s library, which is a mess to then go in from finder and find the actual photo, not some link, i have no idea if it’s messing with my original or making a copy (i know what it does, but when your using it you don’t). Also just dumb things like when you open it, it has all your photos sitting there in one giant thing on the screen. When i open a app like that there should be nothing open. Or visible, just the folders of photos on the side, but i don’t want to see everything linked into one big pile.
If you think the way apps like iPhoto do things is great, your missing why many people get very frustrated with them. Lots of things that some people like are things that many others would never do, someone mentioned drag and dropping files onto an app. Do you realize how few people would even realize that works, and secondly how few would want to do it for fear of having no clue what just happened to their files.
People want to handle files like they do physical files in the real world, they want to move them from folder to folder, they don’t want magic in dropping on apps, or programs deciding how they go, you wouldn’t like a physical real world file cabinet where you throw files at the front of the cabinet and it absorbs the file and puts them wherever it pleases and when you go to access it you have to figure out what it did with them. That kind of thing will work for some, like i mentioned above, mainly people who just don’t care and the alternative to the magical file cabinet is just randomly tossing stuff around their house.
Listen, I like my mac, I like that Apple is evolving OSX to one super integrated thing where in theory one could install it and not even need any third party apps. I use a few as possible since i want it all to be out of the box from apple. I don’t use hacks to change things as I want cause they are not a solution, the solution is apple getting things right, the last thing i want is a computer that is some freak install of random hacks to get it how i like. I use apps like safari even though i get frustrated by it at times and could use firefox instead, but i want to use the browser the system comes with, I will adapt to an app to some degree. But the OS does not need to go messing with my stuff, it’s just that simple.
Also why do people keep responding about things like preview when i already talked about them from the start. I’m sorry if some of you take any criticism of macs on your own, but get over it, they are not perfect, same as windows isn’t perfect. Going around and screaming that it’s perfect as is and nothing ever needs to be changed or re-looked is just plain silly.
It looks like Apple does realize the need for things like a real photo viewer based on what they showed in the keynote, it’s a missing app, stop trying to deny that. Preview is great for PDFs but is very limited when it comes to viewing photos, and iPhoto is a photo organizer/basic editor.
While I understand that to some degree the particular issue of where the menus are placed is a matter of personal preference, I also think that menu placement in OS X is frustrating to many people. It’s certainly the most common complaint I hear about the GUI.
And how many of these people complain just because it’s a menu system they are not used to? Once you get over the initial hump that not every OS is like KDE/Windows, it’s a very smooth way to use menus.
Of course, more often the students in the university lab I work in don’t even notice — they just leave their applications running, thinking they’ve closed them because they clicked on the red dot and the window disappeared.
I would put the blame squarely on the students for not bothering to learn about the machine they are using.
If you think the way apps like iPhoto do things is great, your missing why many people get very frustrated with them. Lots of things that some people like are things that many others would never do, someone mentioned drag and dropping files onto an app. Do you realize how few people would even realize that works, and secondly how few would want to do it for fear of having no clue what just happened to their files.
Dude, no. I know ‘people’, including my in-laws who are among the most non-technical persons I’ve ever known, and they know very well that you can drop files on apps in order to get the app to open the file – heck, even Windows does that. And they fear this operation not a bit, on the contrary: it’s an essential part of their workflow.
It’s just command-line jockeys who have trouble adjusting (been there myself).
But the OS does not need to go messing with my stuff, it’s just that simple.
iPhoto and iTunes aren’t the OS. If you don’t like the way they are operating, don’t use them, stop whining and write your own. After all Apple already gets critized for making their bundled applications too powerful, thus taking away third-party opportunities.
You are one of a kind!
Congrats!
… gives the ending away.
Come on, leave us some suspense =)
Very good article and raises a few points about OS X that any switcher faces, not to mention a few places where there’s room for improvement.
However, why does everybody scream for a G5 laptop?
I mean, are there any AMD 64 laptops out there right now?
Take a good look at the iMac. 2 inches thick. Why?
HEATSINK.
I don’t see any major manufacturers offering them.
1) One of the sites I found had the laptop ripped apart to show the massive heatsink/fan thing on it. DEAR. LORD. Can we say “loud”? Apple likes to make near silent laptops with fans that *rarely* if ever come on.
2) It’s an Athlon, not an Opteron.
Brad – sounds like you are looking for attention and haven’t used iPhoto
I routinely use eights OSs. Mac is just one of them. They all have their uses … except Windows. That’s one I support as a tech at work but don’t use at home. I don’t need a virus and spam collector.
Based on what you say about not using an app to organize files. I guess I should take my food out of my fridge because I want more control of it.
The Preview program in Mac OS X is extremely easy to preview lots of different files types with including graphics and PDF (which are graphics files too) files. Just highlite a range of graphics you want to look at, RIGHT click (yes I use a multi-button mouse) and choose Preview to vew the files. It couldn’t be easier. And I can’t figure out what it doesn’t do that you want.
As for iPhoto. Exactly how are you organizing your photos? I’m assuming in directories by roll of film or subject type or something. Sounds like a huge waste of time to me.
I just connect my camera and let iPhoto import my photos. By default it groups them in “film rolls”. And yes, I give the “film roll” a name. Then I can create smart folders and regroup them in anyway that I want to by adding keywords to each photo.
The above gives me, me, me, me FAR more control than keeping my photos as separate files in directories. With OS/2 I could easily create smart links and manage things the way you are talking. Smart links being links that follow the original file. Dumb links, like in Windows, get broken if the original file is moved. Which is stupid, stupid, stupid. Not you, Windows. OK?
Mainly I think you just haven’t used a Mac very much. And I fully believe that Windows apps have screwed you in the past so that you now have trust issues.
the point is that iTunes is a typical monopolist app; it assumes it *owns* your data. It’s a bit autistic, frankly.
iTunes: “let other computers or apps play with your music? Why should I? You gave it to ME! IT’S MINE MINE MINE NOW! WAAAAAAHHHHHH!” (goes off and has hissy fit in corner).
iTunes is great if all you need to do is organise your music in iTunes, transfer it to *your* iPod, and play it. It downright sucks if you want to let any *other* app or player or anything take a crack at it. That’s the point brad was making; if you organise your music properly yourself, the organisation stays across operating systems, apps and players.
umm… how do you plan to organize your music? By group then by album? well guess what… THAT IS HOW ITUNES DOES IT!!!
“Computer journalism is virtually non-existent. I suppose, the same could be said for journalism in general though…”
No, they’re both alive and well. Computer journalism lives in proper paper computer magazines (the ones that have been around since 1975, not the ones that were founded yesterday and will die tomorrow), and journalism in general lives in newspapers. Don’t go looking for either on the internet, except from long-established sources who’ve been around long enough to buy a couple of basic books on good writing and good journalistic practice.
“And how exactly should iTunes and iPhoto manage your music and photographs if they don’t organize the actual files themselves?”
via metadata. That’s how Rhythmbox does it, and it seems to manage perfectly well.
Two points about BeOS:
[a] IIRC, the “BeOS Way” involved a whole lot of context menus. In my opinion, they’re still a very good idea, because they accomplish the same goal as global menus (ease of targeting, or not having to target?), while having even fewer downsides (unlike application menus or global menus, they never take up any space).
Having global menubars generally means that all applications have to display a menubar themselves, which causes interesting effects on Macs when an application crashes, and also that the window manager needs to be prepared that applications will routinely draw outside their window. It isn’t that hard to do — KDE does it — but part of why BeOS works so well is because /everything/ is as simple and compact as possible, and adding in code for a global menubar would have made things ever so slightly more complex.
[c] BeOS was designed from the ground up to be a Media OS. In practise, that means that it was made for multitasking (if the original BeBox wasn’t multiprocessor, many of the others were), and arguably Be is still better at multitasking than Linux, though I’ve never personally had the opportunity to try it. Still, when you’re constantly switching between windows (BeOS made it easy to set focus-follows-mouse), being able to switch between menubars is very useful. By contrast, I’ve seen many Windows desktops that bring stupidity to new heights: they maximize whatever window they’re using, meaning that the menubar is at the top of their 1280×1024 resolution screen, but not quite — so their mouse has to travel just as far as it would on a Mac, but they don’t get the benefit of a one-dimensional target area.
The ideal system, I think, would be something of a compromise. When an application is maximized, put the menubar at the top of the screen; when it isn’t, keep it on the app.
“I mean, are there any AMD 64 laptops out there right now?”
Yes, there are.
that’s how I group mine, yes (although I have some little kinks in there, and I also have separate bits for other things like bootlegs). However, Brad explained in the article how he organises his, and it’s a perfectly sensible system that’s *not* like that. Besides, the point is the principle, as Brad identified; no app should move user data around unless it’s unavoidable, and moving music files around is entirely avoidable. What else are id3 tags _for_?
Well, guess how iTunes organizes your music! Yep, using metadata. You can even keep your ID3 tags as iTunes maintains its own XML database or you can even export iTunes metadata directly to ID3 tags.
I really don’t know what is that you don’t like abt iTunes guys. It keeps my mp3 in folders by artist and album. You can even tell what tunes are in a compilation so it can keep tunes from different artists in a single directory for that album. I only edit metadata and all file management is done by the software, it’s that easy. A file manager for a special kind of file: music.
No, I don’t think iTunes thinks my music files are its files. I just granted it the right to organize them, that’s all. Do you think I could not delete them if I wanted
? Or I couldn’t copy my music anywhere else? It keeps my music in such a beautiful order (with ID3 tags and dir names and file names) that finding them with Finder and moving albums around is as simple as hell 
.
I think the way iTunes works scared you a bit
. Don’t be afraid, iTunes is your friend 
! Think of it as a database system for music. I don’t think you would hate Oracle because it moves some data round so you could find them faster, more easily and in a flexible way. I can find my tunes by Genre, by Artist and by Album (plus another category for compilations) and it still keeps my files organized by album and artist and as compilations in filesystem level.
You can always turn the copy and organize options off thou so it only maintains its internal metadata database. But it still will help you quickly find you music, faster than you could in your own filesystem based organizastion, I bet!
the point is that iTunes is a typical monopolist app; it assumes it *owns* your data. It’s a bit autistic, frankly.
iTunes: “let other computers or apps play with your music? Why should I? You gave it to ME! IT’S MINE MINE MINE NOW! WAAAAAAHHHHHH!” (goes off and has hissy fit in corner).
iTunes is great if all you need to do is organise your music in iTunes, transfer it to *your* iPod, and play it. It downright sucks if you want to let any *other* app or player or anything take a crack at it. That’s the point brad was making; if you organise your music properly yourself, the organisation stays across operating systems, apps and players.
This is a comment from someone who obviously knows nothing about iTunes that or a totally clueless troll.
There are these things most applications have called Preferences. You should learn how to use them.
Go to your Itunes preferences and finde the advanced section. Find the option “Keep iTunes Folder organized” and uncheck it. Organize your music any way you fricking want! Also, if you don’t like Apple’s default location for where the music is stored, change it within the same preference panel.
Not to mention that the first time you launch iTunes it asks you whether you want it to organize your music or not.
Grow a brain–or crawl back under your bridge.
No, I don’t ‘make those claims’ about computer illiterate people. I observe computer illiterate people struggling with OS X. I watch them go into deep frustration trying to figure things out.
I’m not sure what Windows/Linux bias you’re talking about. I’m certainly biased in favor of Linux about some things. But that’s neither here nor there. The OS X GUI is far superior to the Windows GUI in many respects, and superior to any GUI I’ve used with Linux, although for very different reasons. But I’m not sure what your agenda is here, since I haven’t claimed that any GUI is superior to OS X. I’ve just pointed out that OS X has its problems, and that the ‘science’ of GUI design is ass-backwards when it claims that its ‘principles’ matter more than user experience does. I’m not really even taking issue with OS X; I’m taking issue with your statement that a user who is dissatisfied with an element of OS X needs to go read research papers about design. That is plainly absurd. If the design doesn’t satisfy the user, the design is wrong.
Are Macs easier to use than Windows machines? Sure they are. Are they easy to use? No, they’re not. Interface design is crap all around. The question is, which crap is least deep? Which interface is least horrible? Yes, for the sake of argument, I’ll admit it: Macs take that one. They still have problems.
Things like that should be obvious. That’s exactly what makes it bad design. I mean, hell, I can blame people who complain about desktop Linux for not bothering to read tons of manuals. If the design were better they wouldn’t have to. Blaming the user is rediculous; it’s nothing but a lame excuse for poor choices.
well you did a damn fine job of omitting the fact that it is the best UI wise but far from perfect (see how I did that? I showed my opinion of the OS compared to the others and then made a comment about it still not perfect)
If you don’t like the current mouse trap. Build a better one. Or do you “GUIs are evil” just like to complain?
Quit bitching and build a better interface. If other people agree that your interface it better they will use it. If they don’t, they won’t. Put your interface where your mouth (or fingers) is (are).
Things like that should be obvious. That’s exactly what makes it bad design.
Oh, really? Can I now complain that Windows doesn’t make it obvious that closing the last window will also close the application? After all, there is no logical reason for it to act that way…
Besides, in OS X there is this neat little triangle displayed in the Dock under the icon of active applications.
If the design were better they wouldn’t have to. Blaming the user is rediculous; it’s nothing but a lame excuse for poor choices.
In this case it’s justified: you were talking about students at a university, which I’d expect to be somewhat above the lowest common intellectual denominator.
As someone once said: “The only truly intuitive UI is the nipple, everything else requires learning.” And as nursing moms will tell you, even the nipple has to be learned.