Home > Windows > Longhorn could be tough sell for Microsoft Longhorn could be tough sell for Microsoft Eugenia Loli 2005-03-30 Windows 52 Comments Longhorn has already survived several major delays, intense scrutiny from the industry and a radical redesign of its features. About The Author Eugenia Loli Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker. Follow me on Twitter @EugeniaLoli 52 Comments 2005-03-30 7:31 pm Right.. Longhorn will be a big seller just like XP.. Do you think that people will just not upgrade like then did with every other version of windows? Do you think that all computer will not come with longhorn as the default OS? shessh.. The only thing that will hurt Longhorn is if it comes with hard DCRM and Auto-packages become a standard for linux. 2005-03-30 7:38 pm “Microsoft is going to have to find a way to take a page from the Steve Jobs playbook and make an operating system that not only looks interesting, but feels interesting,” Upgrade the OS for $200 or buy a Mac for $3000? Hm. “We know pretty much definitively that Longhorn is the next version of the Windows client,” Gartenberg said. “Everything else goes downhill from there.” And this come from the [almighty] Gartner research group… Basically the article starts with how there aren’t enough new features in Longhorn worth switching and then goes 3 pages about the new features… Not worth the read really. 2005-03-30 7:39 pm and Auto-packages become a standard for linux. Personally I don’t see any big commercial companies (if they port their apps to Linux) using it. 2005-03-30 7:40 pm Client-side security is an oximoron anyway.Most users with all respect don’t have much clue or haven’t the time to care enough.Most “packages” are bundled so there will not likely be any significant decrease in sales,unless all manufacturers suddenly start to bundle Linux allso with their machines,which is allmost ridiculous to suspect to say the least. 2005-03-30 7:48 pm I work at a community college, and I was the first person at the college (there are four campuses) to get a computer with XP. I started on the job in Sept. 2004. Just because Longhorn rolls out does not mean widespread adoption. XP is actually a very good operating system when compared to the past MS offerings. I don’t see many companies (and let’s be real, that is where all the money/market share is) spending a lot of money to upgrade over a very usable OS. 2005-03-30 7:49 pm Upgrade the OS for $200 or buy a Mac for $3000? Hm. Yea, because every mac user buys a pro level machine. Apple doesn’t sell affordable computers like the iBook, iMac, Mini, or eMac. 2005-03-30 7:52 pm “Upgrade the OS for $200.00 or buy a Mac for $3000? Hm.” Somehow I don’t believe that existing HW will be sufficient for Longhorn so you’ll have to buy a new P… and, I really don’t know where you get your Mac prices from but US$500 will get a Mac Mini (avec OS – albiet a G4) and US$1300 for a G5 iMac. So costs aren’t that wacky… IMHO Jb 2005-03-30 8:06 pm Considering an awful lot of people are still running Windows 98. They don’t even need XP to do what they do. Does Longhorn have any features that people really need? No, it’s mostly for Windows fanatics, the kind of people that lined up for blocks outside computer stores when Windows 95 was released. 2005-03-30 8:11 pm The biggest appeal to me is a fresh 3d interface with all sorts of effects, more stable, better security, better performance in regular applications as well as in games. I am confident game performance will go up tremendously since the inherent overhead associated with using the DirectX API the way it is right now for XP will be taken care of. There will my multicore support right from the get go so games will be blazing. And I just really wish M$ makes it right on the other aspects of the OS I mentioned. And Longhorn will be able to run on existing hardware, maybe not iwth all the gui bells and whistles…but it will still work if the transition from 98 to XP is any indication. IMO that was a big jump and XP with all its features runs fine on 256 mb of memory and a p3 500. Its actually not slow. 2005-03-30 8:14 pm Linux seems to become popular faster than Microsoft can release their Longhorn version. People are too smart to pay $200 for something that doesn’t fix many of the problems of Windows if they can get a superior operating system with thousands of software packages of the Linux/UNIX world for free. 2005-03-30 8:16 pm I suppose I’ll just wait a year or so like I did when XP came out. I’m not really in any hurry to upgrade, so I’ll wait see if the bugs show up, get fixed then make it worth getting hold of Longhorn after everything is sorted. I just hope I can customise the OS like I have done with XP, to make it the way I wish it to be. 2005-03-30 8:21 pm Somehow I don’t believe that existing HW will be sufficient for Longhorn so you’ll have to buy a new P… and, I really don’t know where you get your Mac prices from but US$500 will get a Mac Mini (avec OS – albiet a G4) and US$1300 for a G5 iMac. So costs aren’t that wacky… Somehow I belive an Athlon 4000+ will be enough. Thor there another x800 or R9800 (current) and you’ll be all set. Plus you can turn oof all the fancy 3D stuff if your machine can’t handle it. I don’t know where you took those prices, because if I want a machine similar in performance to the above mentioned Athlon, I have to go for the dual G5 2.5. There’s only one Apple reseller in my country and from a quick look the duel Mac G5 costs around $4100. Yea, because every mac user buys a pro level machine. Apple doesn’t sell affordable computers like the iBook, iMac, Mini, or eMac. What Apple calls “affordable computer” if in the PC world low end. Mac Mini costs the same as a machine I made for a friend recently (A3200+, nv6600GT) without the monitor of course. @Surya: One of the things I’m most excited about is that you won’t be able to install non-WHQLed drivers. That should force everyone to write good drivers that don’t crash the system. Although Longhorn is able to unload the driver if it becomes unstable. Of course I’m also excited about the new GUI, how that will work out. I’m least excited about the whole .NET thing and there beeing several flavors of Longhorn – let’s just hope they’re not “too” stripped down. 2005-03-30 8:33 pm Longhorn is going to be so easy to sell for MS. Every 3-5 years in an office all the computers get replaced and the latest versions of Windows and Office are bought. It’s so cheap. If you are doing $500million worth of services with your office you are not really goig to care whether it costs $700/computer with Linux or $800/computer with office and windows (MS does very good bulk deals). Linux is not going to win on price. It’s going to have to win on value and quality. 2005-03-30 8:38 pm The folks who are dumb enough to pay the $200 and upgrade to Longhorn will be delighted to know that the viruses that infest their Windows today will infest their Longhorn tomorrow. Microsoft has a proven track record that they will always be behind in terms of virus protection and security. For anyone intelligent this is the perfect time to switch to Linux and have a secure and virus-free computer. I just gave it a try and installed the new Fedora and I am extremely pleasantly surprised how easy it is to switch to Linux and how good all the free software is – Firefox, Gaim, Gimp, etc. I should have done it long time ago. 2005-03-30 9:02 pm the easiest way to run Windows apps is still to sit your Mac Mini on top of the Windows box and remote-desktop into it… 2005-03-30 9:11 pm If Longhorn came out two years ago it might still have had a chance but now Linux has become the big new thing. With all the viruses and spyware thats infesting Windows lately people are already embracing Linux and are not willing to spend money on some patched eye candy that suffers the same old problems. 2005-03-30 9:11 pm For anyone intelligent this is the perfect time to switch to Linux and have a secure and virus-free computer. I just gave it a try and installed the new Fedora and I am extremely pleasantly surprised how easy it is to switch to Linux and how good all the free software is – Firefox, Gaim, Gimp, etc. I should have done it long time ago. So you’re saying everyone should switch to Linux? Even the virus writers? And yes, you are right. Firefox, Gaim and Gimp are good, even on my Windows XP machine they run great 2005-03-30 9:21 pm Apparently Longhorn is very bloated and sluggish. One of my friends was beta tester and says that if you don’t have at least a P4 4.0GHz and 1GB of RAM you certainly don’t want to run it. He also says there are still several hundred known bugs that need to be fixed before it can be released: “Any responsible developer would not even talk about releasing code like that at this point.” 2005-03-30 9:26 pm >>So you’re saying everyone should switch to Linux? Even the virus writers? Great point. >>And yes, you are right. Firefox, Gaim and Gimp are good, even on my Windows XP machine they run great Firefox is the only one of these that is better than CS offerings. Gaim is ugly and hard to move arround on, and Photoshop rocks Gimp’s world (although the $700 cost makes Gimp very attractive). Let’s just be honest here. People will switch to Longhorn, it might take longer than the switch to XP, but then XP was quite the jump from 98 or ME. I doubt Longhorn will be another ME, MS seems to have figured out the right formula. And people will not switch to Linux until it becomes easier to install and it is 95% compatable with Windows. As it is, it just doesn’t work well enought for someone who is 40 years old and has never had a computer before to work. Windows is. Mac may be better, but it is more expensive (a $500 MacMini versus a $350 Dell desktop with monitor and printer. I don’t care which is better, someone like my dad is getting the Dell, even if he has to be called Dude to get it). So Windows will stay on top, and Longhorn will get a fair marketshare (but not as quickly as XP), especially among power users who need Windows. It is the unfortunate way of the world. 2005-03-30 9:44 pm Software Assurance, Enthusiast and OEM’s should answer Longhorn will be a success. 2005-03-30 9:47 pm I recon the upgrage cost for Longhorn will be closer to $400. I was in a local PC emporium here in the UK today. They are selling XP/PRO upgrades at the recommended price of £161 (inc vat) and a new license for £260. with the Dollar at $1.80 to the pound, these prices are just blatant rip offs. But, M$ has to recoup all the investment dollars so $400 sounds about right to me. Yes this equates to the cost of a new system from the likes of Dell. So when longhorn is released it will be cheaper for Joe SixPack to but a new system. Just what the trio of M$, Intel & Dell want us to do. Then gazing into my crystal ball, in 2009, XP gets a mysterious virus that stops it working and the only solution according to M$ is to upgrade to Longhorn. Progress, Bah Humbug! 2005-03-30 9:51 pm Obviously your friend is an idiot who downloaded alpha software off a p2p network. The current leaked alpha builds of Longhorn you are talking about (4051, 4074 and any build in the 4xxx series are not optimized for performance. Longhorn is currently in the 5xxx series and is said to be much faster and will get even faster by beta and RTM. Plus there is not beta program going on for Longhorn right now. You are confusing what Bill Gates said last year, that computers sold during the Longhorn time frame will have speeds of up 4-6 Ghz processors and 2GB’s of RAM. Again, stop judging software that is not even at beta 1 yet. 2005-03-30 10:03 pm People don’t pay 200$ for windows,but they keep using it since it’s where games are propietary professional apps are. They simply download form a p2p network. 2005-03-30 10:07 pm Microsoft might make all their future applications only to run on longhorn OS forcing everybody to upgrade. 2005-03-30 10:09 pm The upgrade to Longhorn better to be cheaper than it was from others to XP with Linux and others coming along. Remember all that TCO talk ? 2005-03-30 10:10 pm How the hell does Microsoft get so much coverage even when they are screwing up? 2005-03-30 10:47 pm One word: astroturfing. 2005-03-30 11:10 pm For $400 you can get a desktop nowadays. I’d be stupid to waste that money on another virus magnet. I had enough of windows and will buy a nice new desktop and run Linux on it. Fast, secure, and no viruses anymore. 2005-03-30 11:14 pm It will not change who develops apps for what OSs It will not change the way developers work It will not make users want to buy all new software to replace stuff they pirated or bought in 2002 It will not make all Windows users rush out and buy a new OS It will be an upgrade, that is it When users buy a new system, they will use the OS that boots up on it until they buy another PC, and then they will use the OS that boots up on that… etc 2005-03-30 11:14 pm Could never, would never! Plus if they did, x86/x64 platform is so flexible, Virtual PC and dual boot would solve such issues. You would be able to run your legacy applications in any OS of your choice on VPC or just use the partitioning tools that will come built into LH and install it on a different partition then gradually take your time and migrate to LH. Re: Cheaper Longhorn Yes, XP does reduce total cost of ownership, the majority of 9x applications run on XP, I know people who are running Office 97 on XP. For Mac OS X you can only run legacy OS 9 apps in Classic for Linux (can someone say “recompile” for every update of an distribution. And don’t use Redhat as a scape goat, you have to pay for that if you didn’t know and it cost more than Windows 10 times over! 2005-03-31 12:29 am “Yes, XP does reduce total cost of ownership, the majority of 9x applications run on XP, I know people who are running Office 97 on XP. For Mac OS X you can only run legacy OS 9 apps in Classic for Linux (can someone say “recompile” for every update of an distribution” What are the hell are you talking about? Compare the cost of Linux to that of XP (try not to use RHEL as your comparison knowing full it’s overpriced). Now compare the cost of Windows apps to Linux apps? Tell me where lower TCO is again? Linux on the desktop is not that complicated that you need to pay outlandish rates for support. 2005-03-31 12:30 am The pundits predict Longhorn won’t have enough compelling features to warrant an upgrade from the very capable XP. This is a sign of the times. Most Windows applications have reached a level of feature maturity. This is what affords Linux momentum. Just look at KDE 3.4 and the OO 1.9 preview and tell me things aren’t converging. I just updated my SUSE 9.2 with KDE 3.4 (I can’t freaking wait for SUSE 9.3) and I was completely blown away by the beauty and power of KDE. The irony is that Windows is racing to achieve what Linux started with (security, speed, power to administer, etc.) while Linux races to achieve maturity of fuller-featured applications and an elegance on the Destop that arguably will be battle-ready when Longhorn ships. This is going ot be a freaking war and I love it! 2005-03-31 12:53 am Microsoft is not the Hindenburg… but a slow leak of gas is happening somewhere!… Longhorn, a longhaul! repeat of Windows 2000 to XP, a lot of people did Wy2K but not untill XPy2K did it widely come to the home desktop, longerwaitahorn (XPerienz….alized) will be with you… sometime! 2005-03-31 1:02 am When you buy XP, you get Microsoft support. When you download and install Fedora, you don’t get any support. If you want any level of support, you have to shell out for the RHEL license. There goes your TCO theory out the door. Besides, what home user wants to run Linux? Linux is absolute shit from a desktop perspective. I don’t care if 2005 is the “Year of Linux on the Desktop” — they’ve been saying that since about 2000. 2005-03-31 1:43 am Microsoft might make all their future applications only to run on longhorn OS forcing everybody to upgrade. Probably not such a good idea. People might find out that free alternatives works just fine. 2005-03-31 1:56 am I have the original DP of Longhorn, not bad at all. Some very neat concepts. While AW we have some XP machines Windows 2000 remains king for most of the developers. 2000 works for them, it is secured and we have no problems with it. When Longhorn is released, it will filter in with the new machines and we will eventually be on Longhorn, as for now what we have works and works well. I would, again, consider switching my desktops to Linux when the product and the community around it matures enough. Some IT guys, ussually the fly by night ones, like Linux and they like the idea of upgrading and getting the latest. i dont because when I was using Linux heavily it seemed like I was a permanent beta tester. many criticize MS for not having a new OS for 5 years. But, this gave us time to test, deploy and get the machines to do what we want them to do and it worked extremely well. I will continue to deploy 2000 and XP. When the machines prove to not be adequate and we have to replace them one thing is for certain, I will continue to use MS products and standardize on that, Linux until the point I feel its 100% adaquate for my infrastructure will only be on the developers desks who work on those solutions. Just because I stopped deploying Linux does not mean that I cant enjoy the benefits of the Open Source software I believe to be ready. I deploy Apache on my Windows Servers and I use OpenOffice, GAIM and Firefox/Netscape as the browsers for the desktop deployments. 2005-03-31 2:02 am When users buy a new system, they will use the OS that boots up on it until they buy another PC, and then they will use the OS that boots up on that… etc This exactly what happened allready in XP. This has worked well before, but now that Microsoft is better at protecting their IP, e.g. by not providing service packs to unregistered users etc the situation is somewhat different. When people get a new OS, they also likely need to upgrade their other software to make full use of it. As not only Microsoft hits down on unlizenced use of software. An upgrade will become much more expensive than just the cost of the OS or OS upgrade. This will limit the willingness to upgrade. At the same time Linux and MacOS-X grows and creates markets for non MS products and giving the user a possibility to have an actual choise. 2005-03-31 2:27 am Just because Longhorn rolls out does not mean widespread adoption. XP is actually a very good operating system when compared to the past MS offerings. I don’t see many companies (and let’s be real, that is where all the money/market share is) spending a lot of money to upgrade over a very usable OS. That’s one of the issues – for vast numbers of individuals, XP SP2 (for example) is a useable, polished, well-featured desktop OS – are there sufficiently compelling reasons for these individuals to upgrade etc ?? – when will 40-60 % of them move, 2008-2009-2010 … ??? 2005-03-31 2:32 am people can buy windows Photoshop for $1000 and get the job done, with linux? Well, you have two options: use the Gimp, which is just fine if you do graphics for the web, for video games or for movies. If you work on printed images, use Photoshop with Wine, it works flawlessly. What was your point, again? you probably have to hire people first to write something as good as photoshop, will they be cheaper? do you value your time? idiot. How about autoCAD, InDesign, MS OFFICE, PREMIERE etc Premiere sucks. It’s not a professionnal-level video editing program (that would be Final Cut Pro, not available on the PC). MS Office works flawlessly under Wine. Calling other people idiots is a sure sign that you don’t trust the validity of your own arguments. You should meditate on this for a while. 2005-03-31 2:52 am Recompile for every update? as much as I know, old apps can work on a new version. besides, most apps just get updated when you update the OS (you know, apt-get update&&apt-get dist-updrade?) 2005-03-31 3:06 am Quote: “Considering an awful lot of people are still running Windows 98. They don’t even need XP to do what they do. Does Longhorn have any features that people really need? No, it’s mostly for Windows fanatics, the kind of people that lined up for blocks outside computer stores when Windows 95 was released.” You are very much correct. The number of customers I see still running Windows 98/98se or NT 4 is amazing. They don’t want to update, as they’re running old pentium based machines that still work that will choke on Windows XP, and the costs involved mean a new PC just to be able to run XP. Not every company/business/charity has that sort of money to throw away, and the old saying “if it ain’t broke, then don’t fix it” really applies here. Quote: “The folks who are dumb enough to pay the $200 and upgrade to Longhorn will be delighted to know that the viruses that infest their Windows today will infest their Longhorn tomorrow. Microsoft has a proven track record that they will always be behind in terms of virus protection and security. ” This is a very valid set of comments. Microsofts security record is very very very poor. They’ve only started to pick the game up because of competition from Linux. This is why monopolies are bad. If Microsoft had a total monopoly like they’d like, then there’d be no competition and customers would get shafted with poor security, cos they would have nothing else to go to and compare. Linux provides that. That said – Linux is still not ready for the desktop. For that to happen we need *one* desktop environment, ABI stability and packages that install across EVERY single distro without tinkering or dependency issues. Add better hardware support, and an increase in proprietary 3rd party software applications being ported to run natively on Linux. Whilst this doesn’t happen, Linux will never become mainstream. Advanced users will flock to it, average users won’t. And the majority of computer users are average ones. Linux has the potential, but certain things must change for it to truly succeed. I don’t think Microsoft really has to worry too much, there’s too much internal politicisation in the Linux and Open Source world for it to ever work together as one giant team. Dave 2005-03-31 3:53 am Quote: “Idiot. Linux is much more expensive. people can buy windows Photoshop for $1000 and get the job done, with linux? you probably have to hire people first to write something as good as photoshop, will they be cheaper? do you value your time? idiot. How about autoCAD, InDesign, MS OFFICE, PREMIERE etc …” Photoshop – overpriced, poor UI, poor help documentation, great features. au $1700, i’m sorry but that’s a disgracefully highly priced piece of software, and primarily because Adobe can do it because it has a monopoly on the graphics market (and therefore no real competition)…You don’t need Windows to run Photoshop (at least version 7). Wine does it just nice. As an alternative, the GIMP is pretty damn good. It’s no photoshop and wasn’t designed to be, but it’s still pretty powerful for most things that the average user wants. MS Office – runs fine under crossover office. NO need for Windows. autocad – Linux is VERY weak here…i’m not sure if autocad runs under wine or crossover…this is one area where Windows has a good lead. Premiere – I wouldn’t use it. As one other user has noted, final cut express/pro kicks its butt. I’ve seen very few professional graphics/movie editing guys not running OS X. Illustrator/InDesign – Quark express kicks its butt. Again, predominantly dominated by Mac users. It would be nice to see these apps ported to Linux natively, but that won’t happen for some time, and until certain things happen (see my previous post above). Dave 2005-03-31 8:34 am If someone feels a mac is too expensive, then it’s too expensive FOR THEM. You whiners telling them it’s not too expensive are just wasting your breath, pissing the rest of us off, and prolly just responding to a troll anyway. Someone needed to say it. People buy computers for different reasons. Some buy them for the bleeding edge, high performance, others just want something to work. People who purchase an mini-Mac, are not overly concerned about features, they just want something that works, and does what they need – it is highly unlikely that they’ll want to play games or render complex 3d models. If people want to purchase a mini Mac for things other than running gee-wizz-bang games, then respect their reasons, just as, if a person decides that they’d rather purchase a PC so that they can tweak every aspect of their hardware, respect their reasons. Lord knows, its only a frigging computer, not some sort of “lifestyle” or “call in life”. 2005-03-31 8:53 am This is a very valid set of comments. Microsofts security record is very very very poor. They’ve only started to pick the game up because of competition from Linux. This is why monopolies are bad. If Microsoft had a total monopoly like they’d like, then there’d be no competition and customers would get shafted with poor security, cos they would have nothing else to go to and compare. Linux provides that. Nothing else to compare when Mac OS X is around… that’s not really a fair comment, is it? You haven’t heard about that many attacks on OS X that you could justify thinking it’s equally susceptible to attacks as Windows is, have you? I agree that Linux is going to be very secure if only because you have to have considerable knowledge of the system to attack its vulnerabilities. It does seem as though Mac OS X has its good sides too. I would be surprised to hear that KDE is better than Aqua as a desktop experience, and the overall consistency of the system has to be greater than Linux. Let’s agree that they are both going to eat a chunck out of Bill’s nether regions before the cow leaves the barn next year [or the year after that… ok, SOMETIME this century] and rejoice in the choice for the user. 2005-03-31 3:25 pm “I don’t care if 2005 is the “Year of Linux on the Desktop” — they’ve been saying that since about 2000.” Who has been saying that? Not at least any Linux distributor. RedHat and Novell stated at the beginning of this millenium that Linux will go desktop precisely the year 2006, not before or after, and it certainly seems so, too. Though some desktop Linux’s are more appealing than XP in every possible way (technically speaking), the standards and third-party software aren’t still quite there yet. I’d say year 2007 is the year of desktop Linux. And yes, just because 2007 is root in H4XX02. 2005-03-31 3:40 pm Windows XP will remain the OS of choice for some time. Longhorn will not have anything major to offer me or others. Who would want to spend the big $$$ for an OS that has minor new features? I predict many people will stick with XP for quite awhile. It is a very capable system (does it all; ie: able to watch tv, webcam, telephony, email, browse internet, Office Suite, etc.; supports newer technology, wifi, bluetooth, compact flash, etc.). Windows 98 to XP was a somewhat big change. Though Windows 98 handled all the applications I listed above too & is still useable today. When the time comes (probably in 3 to 7 years time) that Windows XP seems too old to use, is when I’ll look at either switching to Linux or BeOS (Zeta). Right now I use BeOS as a hobby OS & enjoy it, but rely on Windows XP for my main OS (& I really like XP for the most part). I don’t believe the cost of buying Longhorn will be worth it & think many others will agree. Linux is getting better year after year and I am certain that in 2-3 years time many distros will be very easy to install, use & configure so that even the average computer user can consider the switch over (& by that time have more applications to use too). I’ve tried a few Linux distros myself and they seemed good, but didn’t impress me enough to do the change over (just yet) – because I’m happy with Windows XP right now. I prefer BeOS over Linux (my preference) and in 2-3 years Yellowtab will incorporate more code from Haiku (with their own) and make Zeta (BeOS) a real contender to Windows (& Linux). If more & better applications are developed for Linux & BeOS/Zeta then I can see them becoming a real threat to Windows in the coming years & make Longhorn a tougher sell. Getting more programs ported or coded for these alternative OSes will depend on people supporting them (ie: buy Yellotab’s Zeta, give a dontation to Linux, etc.). The future will offer more choice & Microsoft will have to convince users of XP to uprade and to keep users from switching to Linux or Zeta. Won’t be easy for Microsoft. 2005-03-31 3:55 pm Who has been saying that? Been in a cave ? LOTS OF PEOPLE. I’d say year 2007 is the year of desktop Linux. LOL. I’ll sit back and watch 2007 be the year of Longhorn on the desktop while you guys argue over Gnome vs. KDE just like always. 2005-03-31 5:11 pm “Who has been saying that? Been in a cave ? LOTS OF PEOPLE. ” I meant anyone who’s actually developing Linux? Sure LOTS OF PEOPLE can say anything, but it usually means nothing. It took over two years for XP to become the main Windows OS. Longhorn will be totally different, so I’d expect at least five years for it to have to do the catch-up. Especially concidering that quite rare people are really excited about it at all. Most eyes are turned to OSX, XP service packs and popular Linux distros. If it-shops begin to offer some popular desktop Linux distributions as alternatives to Windows, Longhorn is already dead. The price gap is just too huge, and most people don’t know a bit about Windows either. They just read the manuals and call the support, and there are manuals and support services to popular Linux distros also. 2005-03-31 9:08 pm Quote: “To some extent you are correct. I hate to break the bad news to you though, Linux’ growth over the next ten years is going to be a LOT larger than Apple Macs. Even Microsoft acknowledges that. Dave FYI I have a PowerBook G4 15″ at work, i’ve used OS X extensively (in fact I used to work for Apple providing Tier 1 technical support for Australian & New Zealand customers). So i’m pretty well aware of OS X is capable of! I simply like Linux because it is open.” 2005-04-01 1:24 am As a Mac guy, I am rooting for Linux. Hard. Linux is the true threat to Microsoft’s monopoly. As is the entire open source movement. Linux and Open Office can finally get people thinking about choice in a OS and Office suite. And this is good for Apple. Apple’s value proposition is different–vertically integrated solutions at a premium–so Linux is not the threat. The true threat to Apple is the “Well it’s good enough,” going-with-Microsoft-by-default, low expectations game. A three way race will be great for Apple. Yes, they won’t have 33% market share, but they don’t need it nor want it. If Linux can open up the marketplace and Apple can achieve HALF of their fair share, it would enormous growth. Finally, Linux and Apple guys need to work together. The enemy is Microsoft and their illegal activities and brutal lock-in strategies. Nothing would make MS happier than to see Apple and OSS folks fighting. We need to support one another and keep our eye on the real enemy: Microsoft. 2005-04-01 4:04 am Amen! Dave 2005-04-01 7:24 am Many of you aren’t being realistic. Longhorn is guaranteed to be a success. Microsoft has a monopoly on desktop OSes. OEMs are going to offer Longhorn, not Linux. Consumers really could care less about the OS. It doesn’t matter how many new features it offers.