For the first time since the introduction of the “top sellers” section at Apple’s online store, there is not a Macintosh among the 20 top selling items. Just before the x86 transition announcement there was an iMac in that list (while there were 3-4 Macs listed consistently each week a few months ago), but after the announcement, the Macs have dissappeared from the top selling list. The only Macintosh-related products in the list now are iLife and OSX Tiger. The rest are all iTunes/iPod products. The lower desire for PPC systems after the x86 announcement was predicted by some analysts. Update: Either OSNews’ Mac advocates just went out and bought a bunch of computers to skew the results, or the “Top Sellers” data is very dependent on the time of day. Because as of 2:00pm EST, Macs are well represented in the list, at #1,3,4,5,6,7,9 (but this is the Amazon list, not Apple’s store).
The Macintosh Not Among Apple’s Top Sellers – Updated
About The Author
Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
Follow me on Twitter @EugeniaLoli
It’s hard to figure out how Apple could convince anyone to buy a Mac right now. They should focus on long-term support guarantees or something like that, but still, it will be hard 12 months ahead.
Why had they to annouce the switch so early? Usually the companies keep this kind of info close to the chest, especially if porting from PPC to x86 is so easy as Jobs said during the announcement.
They probably couldn’t afford such move if they didn’t have iPod as their cash cow, but they gotta watch their backs on that market too, the competition is getting better.
This is hardly a statistically secured fact and is likely a temporary coincidence. Noone else than a ceratin population of computer geeks care about this switch, and I suspect they make up less than 10% of Apple’s computer buying customers.
…iPods and cheap iPod accessories outsell expensive computer systems? Get out of own…
Perhaps this story would be noteworthy if you could toggle off all the chinsy iPod accessories and see how just iPods rank versus Apple’s notebooks, desktops, and servers.
Of course there’s going to be less demand for PowerPC-based Apples, until the transition is complete. I don’t get why these things have to come as a “shock” to people. After the transition, everything will be back to normal, with possibly even more marketshare. Apple evaluated all this beforehand, and they deemed it a risk well worth taking. Transitions do not happen overnight as far as I’m concerned.
Telling people that you’ll switch to the different CPU line a year and a half before? I postponed my Mini Mac, too. But I guess that is the best time for Apple to do such move, since they are riding the iPod wave.
Sorry, but this IS the first time that a MAc is out of the list. And being just right after the announcement, it is NOT coincidental or because iPod accessories are “cheap”.
I was planning on buying a mac mini but I don’t see a point to it now. I can just get a cheap intel box and run a cracked version of OS X Intel when it comes out. Personally I think Apple is stupid for doing this, but at least it will save me some money.
I did order my Dual G5 today, knowing Apple I am save for at least another 10 years, many users will never give up their G5 machines.
Well said. This fear of buying a G4/G5 based Mac because of a backend announcement which will take 2 years to finish is quite laughable. The G3/G4/G5s will be supported for a long time with no problem…
Maybe there is going to be an interesting effect on ebay. Apple laptop prices will drop which mean that I may get one!
) I am wondering what people think about that.
Doesn’t mean much considering that only reflects their online store. As Jobs himself has said, the sales growth at Apple Stores directly has been tremendous.
Alert! Walmart statistics show that their stores are not selling nearly as many televisions as rolls of toilet paper, indicating that televisions are dying!
Of course, Apple’s statistics couldn’t possibly because there’s a higher consumer demand for ipods and ipods cost only a fraction of what a Mac does.
Good luck running OS X without drivers. It’ll be no better than running Linux!
I dunno what this says about the UK (or the premise of the comment) but the iMac G5 is currently the top seller on the Apple Store UK
ipod was already the biggest revenue product for apple, so no wonder at all that short term sales of imacs are decreasing right now and that ipods are among the firsts.. where’s the news?
“I did order my Dual G5 today, knowing Apple I am save for at least another 10 years, many users will never give up their G5 machines.”
Seems strange you have ordered another Dual G5 now, since you’ve ordered a Dual G5 just two days ago…
Here http://www.osnews.com/comment.php?news_id=10860&offset=15&rows=30 on your post dated 2005-06-15 20:36:28, you say:
“I ordered my Dual G5 today. X86 remains a poorer cpu-design even when used by Apple. Hopefully my PM will last me at least 10 years, to me X86 is a long way off.”
No offence, but I hope it’s not what I am thinking.
Anyone want to start a fund to put the osnews editors through a STAT class?
Come on guys, this means less then nothing.
At least it’s exclusive!
>Come on guys, this means less then nothing.
I beg to differ. It is not a coincidence, and you don’t have to be so defensive. It was predicted and it’s logical to happen.
“I disagree. It indicates that Television is turning to s***”
Heh. Whatta ya mean, turning to s***? It’s always been s***. Don’t you remember shows like the Brady Bunch and the Partridge Family?
So prior to the Intel Mac announcement, there was only one Mac in the list, and afterward, that model wasn’t on the list. ? Since Apple has been selling many more iPods than Macs, how is that information useful?
Why Apple Won’t Suffer the Osborne Effect
http://www.roughlydrafted.com/Jun05.osborne.html
It is, if you consider that until very recently there were between 3-4 macs listed tehre. And now is none. This is important news for mac users.
I spent a good few months trying to convince my IT boss (in a scientific establishment) that we should go over to Mac, especially given their success at Virginia Tech creating a supercomputer that at one point was the third fastest in the world. THe plan: a bank of G5s, and then mini-macs on desks for access (through X11) to other legacy computers – with the added bonus of Microsoft Office for report writing. OK, so the move to Intel might not make much difference to most – but if you code in FORTRAN (as many scientists still do), one is highly compiler and chip dependent. Everything looked good – but after the announcement of going to Intel, we are now looking at SUNs with SOLARIS/FORTRAN STUDIO – (which I’m sure will do a very good job). We cannot possibly invest in writing software optimised for a G5 power chip, knowing this will shortly be obsolete.
I’m a home user of Apple – and would have liked to see them in the workplace too – but I agree with the severe reservations of our IT guys. We simply cannot invest in something to be superceeded in just 12 months.
Well, at least with our new SUNs, I can access remotely with my personal Apple through X11. But that’s as far as it’s likely to go for the time being regarding Apple, alas…..
nice assuption… you know what that makes you.
The Machintosh has been and still is Apple’s Main source of Revenue.
Hmmm… I was thinking of buying a Mac mini as an updated platform for running Bernie ][ The Rescue, the marvelous Apple IIgs emulator. It’s probably too much to hope that discounted or used units will become available so soon after introduction, but I’d like that.
Bernie might run on a PC platform, which would be a case of running an emulation under emulation, but I wouldn’t have high expectations.
If there was only 1 Mac on the list prior to the announcement, while some weeks ago there were 3-4, then that should indicate Macs were disappearing from the list *before* the announcement. Duh.
And maybe they were because they’re underspec’d… no? Because Apple has seen little processor evolution for the last year? Because the intel transition was way overdue?
G5 will shortly be obsolete? Why, of course it will – and that’s why Apple moved to Intel, not the other way round. Is it so difficult to understand?
I am still planning to order a Dual G5. I have to admit that I had a little hesitation, much like how the stock briefly dropped on the news. Rather than wait at least two years (probably more) for a Mac x86 system I want, however, I will get a system I can use and enjoy for probably at least five years. I can definitely believe that the release dates for the first high-end x86 systems may slip, and the first generation may not be worth owning. I may want to wait a few years for design issues to be worked out.
Is this a weekly top seller list? Monthly? Since the news is relatively recent, I doubt it could have had much impact on long-term stats. Weekly numbers are just a blip. Might people ponder things for an extra week or two , as I did, when the news was released? Sure. Does that mean Eugenia’s assumption is correct and will necessarily translate into a long-term impact? No, not necessarily.
I dunno what this says about the UK (or the premise of the comment) but the iMac G5 is currently the top seller on the Apple Store UK
It says that this “exclusive story” is a bunch of FUD and very premature on the “I told you so”.
I’m not trying to be abusive; I just think it’s WAY too early to correlate this to Intel. Keep in mind, there is a big delay on shipping certain Macs right now… which usually means speed bumps or more default RAM.
French store:
iMac G5
iPod mini
Mac OS X Tiger
iSight
EyeTV 200 + Iomega 160GB
iPod shuffle
PowerBook
Mac mini
iMac G5 is first.
I’ve thought long and hard and I will buy tiger for my powerbook instead of getting a brand new one.
I am afraid that for them the downside takes even longer cause there will be a lasting impression that even less software is available after than before the transition. Considering that the fact that less software (and not the same ones) is available than on windows, is the major hinderance to people buying Macs (or switching to Linux), I can’t see how Mac sales will reach a new high anytime soon.
Bernie might run on a PC platform, which would be a case of running an emulation under emulation, but I wouldn’t have high expectations.
I know it’s bad form to followup one’s own post, but I see that I inadvertantly said “PC platform” when I probably should have said “Intel platform.” I don’t think we’ve been told that Intel-based Macs will be PC compatible. I don’t think we’ve been told they won’t be, either
For instance that it’s June and lots of people will be getting iPods for graduation. There might be a slight attrition rate on the sale of Macs due to the Intel switch announcement, but there are also not as many people willing to wait between one and two years to get their new Mac.
I vote this is circumstantial evidence at best.
This is not really news. Have you looked at Apple’s store before? It’s been like this before without any announcements of processor changes.
This is only news for those of you who want to feel vindicated for making the prediction that Apple was going to do poorly after making the announcement, but as others have said… this doesn’t mean much at all. As a matter of fact, I regard it to some degree as FUD not unlike all the BSD is dying comments on slashdot only now directed at Apple. Remember, there was only 1 Mac on the list before.
While the announcement is likely to make some a bit Mac shy, its important that its only going to make *some* Mac-shy… and that some is only of the percentage who even heard the announcement in the first place.
I’ve polled a handful of Mac users and found that not a single one of them had heard the announcement. After even telling them what happened, they were like, “so, how does this affect me.”
I tend to agree with all the others on this board… this was merely coincidental and probably is more of an indicator of the iPod’s increasing popularity rather than the Macs decreasing popularity.
To suggest otherwise is a massive leap.
…I am not worried. I am sure Apple is not worried and that they realized this would happen. I am sure they have planned for this in advance.
Surely Apples money was made off the inventory they have sold to cover the inventory in the warehouses.
that just plain business.
“A”
In the coming months I will buy a mac mini to replace my aging ibook g3. (the moment the next revision comes out, hopefully before the end of september)
I think I can reasonably expect it to last the next 3 years as my main desktop machine. After that, the intel versions of all important applications will probably be mature. At that point, I will buy an intel mac mini, and use the old one as a media server.
I thought about waiting another year, but I am guessing that not all the necessary applications will be ported. Also, I don’t like to buy a first-revision piece of hardware.
I am surprised some people ask this question. Instead, they should be asking themselves how pi##ed-off Mac fans would be if Apple didn’t announce this until they were ready to release Intel-based Macs.
Can you begin to imagine the fury of people, next June, who had bought PPC-based Macs between now and then – only to find out Apple had planned on making their recently-purchased machines “obsolete” for over a year???
For those who don’t plan on buying a Mac during the next 12-months, I’m curious to see what they think of the new PPC-based Macs coming-out between now and then. Jobs said there will be new PPC-based Macs coming-out.
The key question: Will they be incremental changes that people will scoff at, or will they be kick-ass and make it tough for people to pass-up – “a bird in the hand is worth..” – for the promise of future performance of Intel-based macs?.
> By jjg (IP: —.hsd1.il.comcast.net) – Posted on 2005-06-17 18:05:17
>I was planning on buying a mac mini but I don’t see a point >to it now. I can just get a cheap intel box and run a cracked >version of OS X Intel when it comes out. Personally I think >Apple is stupid for doing this, but at least it will save me >some money.
I love how people are proud to admit they steal, as if that is something to be proud of. Nice job.
Go back and look now: <http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/new-for-you/top-sellers/-/pc/a…
They hit 1, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 9, 11, 12, 14.
By the way, who buys a computer first thing in the morning. You need to do this over a period of days. Get real.
Oh yeah, #1 MP3 player…iPod.
The Ipod and accessories are definitely selling more for father’s day.
I went to the WWDC and a few hours after I was to the nearby Apple Center were employees were helping carying big G5 boxes in some customers cars. I wondered if they knew what was announced.
See what happens when you aren’t “careful” the statistics will lie to you. I really wonder if the guy who “wrote” this article actually knew what he was doing when he pulled the numbers. If I was his editor I would ask the writer when he searched the list and then call Amazon to see what they say about the hour that he supposedly searched Amazon. I’ll bet he did it on his inferior windoze machine.
Wait til August, all computer sales will shoot up again once school starts up again.
In other news, who cares about this?
It’s hard to figure out how Apple could convince anyone to buy a Mac right now.
Huh? Mac sales may very well go down, but to imply that it DOESN’T MAKE SENSE to buy a Mac now is crazy.
I plan on buying the next update of the 12″ iBook. I don’t care if it is the last PPC iBook. Here’s why: I’m buying on what I need, not on some abstract specs. The present iBook gives me what I need for the kind of work I do, and my requirements. I’m hoping this coming iBook will get a video card that can fully support Tiger. So why should I wait 6-12 months? Will the Mactel (inBook) do more? I already am happy with what the PPC iBook does. Big deal.
And I’m not afraid that somehow Apple will abandon PPC users in my timeframe of useful life for the iBook – I plan on getting Applecare, so for me if the iBook lasts 3 years, I’m happy. I strongly doubt I’ll be stranded by Apple, having 3 years of Applecare. I face zero risk.
On the other hand, there is a risk that the intel books first generation will have bugs. I’d rather take the fully mature last generation of PPC iBooks NOW, then wait frustrated for 6-12 months and HOPE that the intel ibooks are solid.
So, I think it makes a LOT of sense to buy even a lowly G4 PPC ibook – and thus, I need no persuading. Tell me how I’m wrong?
I really don’t see why people care so much. If I had the money I’d still get a new G5. who cares if they are switching procs? It’s not like support is going to drop instantly for PPC macs. theres way to many of them out there for that.
Same thing everywhere in Europe : Spain, France, Italy, Germany, Austria…
>I’m waiting for a price drop on PPC
While I’m sure prices will drop, they’ll drop with the rest of the industry. its not as if Macs cost more than comperably equipped PCs.
The Apple store back at home:
# iPod w/Click Wheel
# Powerbook G4
# iBook
# Incase laptop bags
The Apple store in Germany:
# iMac G5
# iPod mini
# Mac OS X Tiger
# iSight
# EyeTV 200 + Iomega 160GB
# iPod shuffle
# PowerBook
# Mac mini
And then some quick searching down the list shows mention of Macs gone from the top seller list in Singapore, Canadia, and Hong Kong.
Now, if we wait and see, and the Mac starts disappearing from the list in Europe as well, then I would say that it is relatively reasonable to assume that Mac sales are indeed dropping, probably due to the Intel announcement. But otherwise, I agree with the “it’s too soon to tell, this is probably just a fluke” camp.
I told you! but this is just for the next 12 months + they have some cash to survive during the transition.
I got my iMAc G5 about 5 months ago and I know it will die soon. Bye, Bye, IBM.
-2501
Well said. This fear of buying a G4/G5 based Mac because of a backend announcement which will take 2 years to finish is quite laughable. The G3/G4/G5s will be supported for a long time with no problem…
>
>
Funny, Amiga advocates kept saying the same thing about the Amiga years ago…..
I’m not sure how you can compare the two situations.
this page keeps on coming up for no apparent reason:
http://www.apple.com/trailers/miramax/kill_bill/
I think the way they are handling the switch is smart. Obviously, they will suffer _some_ losses in the next 12-24 months on PPC models, but its better to get developers thinking about and starting on making their stuff portable this early, then to wait later on. While this cuts into the PPC sales some, they win with a better intelimac experience later on (when more software is available natively than would have been available if they announced the switch last minute).
As for myself, I’m waiting for the next PPC Mac Mini update, which should come shortly (they haven’t upped the specs yet since introduction of the mini early this year – so it’s overdue). As I see it, PPC macs are still a great investment since they will be supported for quite a while (Jobs said so), and there will be more software available for them natively than intelimacs in the forseable computer lifetime (2-5 years) while developers struggle to get their stuff ported. Also, later, when I get my intelimac in 2-5 years, the mini will make a great personal server, and will be especially secure (PPC will be even more niche then, so less ppl trying to exploit buffer overflows in code running on PPC as opposed to x86).
“important news for Mac users”, yuhuh. What happened to it being an exclusive?
I just purchased an iBook G4 on Monday. So what about the processor switch? I’m an IT guy, and right now, I see the benefits of an iBook doing for me what I need to do in my job.
Yeah, I can feel the change is coming. We all can. That doesn’t mean though, like numerous others have stated, that the PPC won’t be supported throughout the next several years. Its a HUGE part of Apple’s marketshare (well, close to all of it), and they know not all of those customers are going to switch over. Hell, as big as an Apple “fanboy” as I am, I don’t want to switch over to Intel right away, not until I at least know a majority of bugs are worked out of everything. And even then, I might only get a Mac Mini as my first “Macintel” machine.
What does that list on Amazon have to do with this story? Of course the Apple computers are higher than other Apple products on that list; there are no other Apple products on it! It’s a list of top selling computers – not much room for an iPod there. And the list isn’t indicative of sales in general either because Amazon doesn’t have new Dell’s, etc. That list has absolutely nothing to do with this story, no matter how lame the story itself happens to be.
Anyone know if Mac sales are really up or down? This kind of ranking doesn’t say much other than Apple is selling more of a lot of things other than Macs.
The PPC will be supported **YEARS** after the transistion is even complete so I see no reason why anyone should hold back. It’s not like as soon as Apple switches to Intel they’ll no longer support PPC. I expect that they’ll support the PPC after the switch to Intel for about 3-5 years.
You may bring up because it may not be the latest and greatest in a year – is anything in the tech industry the latest and greatest for more than a month? Didn’t think so.
I’d bet that the majority of people who buy Macs don’t know what chip is inside, won’t have heard about Jobs’ speech, and, after the switch, won’t know and won’t care that there’s an Intel chip inside.
That likely sounds blasphemous to most of the crowd on this site, but the very fact that we’re here is evidence that we are out of touch with typical computer users.
The same could be said if Windows users to. The vast majority are equally ignorant about their computers internals…. and the number is likely to be proportionate to Mac users
Its important to make this point, because it sounded as if you were repeating the age old FUD line which implies that Mac users are less tech savvy because they use Macs.
“It is, if you consider that until very recently there were between 3-4 macs listed tehre. And now is none. This is important news for mac users.”
I completely agree. It is going to be hard for Apple to keep up sales for mac hardware. I can easily imagine sales dipping to records lows in the next year.
I need a new TV, but I am going to wait a year to buy one, because if I buy one now it will be obsoleted by some better model in a year’s time.
I use this logic with computers as well, and unfortunately this causes me to never be able to buy a new computer, since new ones are always coming out.
I completely agree! This article does not show much or prove much. There is better stuff to post on Mac.
Hmm, its 2007, and I need a machine that I can install longhorn on and at the same time install the kewl Mac OS X and possibly also Linux. What should I buy, I have three options:
1 – Dell
2 – Whitebox
3 – Mac x86
The choice is slamdunk. Apple Just became DELL’s biggest competitor. Apple will sell a lot of Macs, Intel will sell a lot of processors, Microsoft will sell a lot of Windows.
Smart move.
… who gives a damn
post serious news, pls
No FUD intended. I’m using a Mac right now.
I don’t think it is especially tragic that a lot of people don’t know what is inside their computer. If you’re not a developer, what good does that do you? You install software that says it runs on Windows or Macs, not that it runs of the x86 or the PPC. There is nothing I do with my computer that would be impossible if I didn’t know what kind of chip it used. It’s really no more important than knowing what kind of chips are inside my TV or my car.
You are absolutely right.
Steve J. knows very well that he will never gain over MS, because MacOSX is a nice game an nothing more. So it is better to make business with him. If you have enough money and you are going to buy a workstation, OSX-x86 will be the best choise: you can run Windows to work and you can also play with Mac. Additionally, preventing running MacOSX Apple will not compete with MS and MacOSX will be saved from driver conflicts, crappy hardware and piracy so St. J. is not stupid, he is a smart businessman.
People, Apple is stock listed. They *have* to annoucne to the people who technically own their business of such strategic moves.
the switch should be of big concern for everyone thinking of buying a mac right now, not only for the nerds. you might be able to count on apple on supporting ppc the next years but that doesn’t include general software vendors. so even if you aren’t interested what cpu is in your mac, you will be when in 2 years developers start to drop ppc support.
I wouldn’t characterize Eugenia’s interest in Apple products as “hatred.” If you want to see what Apple hatred looks like I could find you some for comparison.
All this goes to show is that theres a reason that the geeks, techies and general computer nerds are seldom found in the board rooms or marketing divisions. Loads of people predicted that the iPod mini would fail due to not having enought capacity for the price compared to the smallest “regular” iPod. Funnily though, the iPod mini became a huge success.
In every discussion like this, everyone assume that the general public reasons the same as the posters do themselves. People however buy for many different reasons than tech specs.
Not withstanding, I see no problem buying a PPC mac, neither now nor in a year. You buy a computer for it’s capabilities (running a particular application at enough speed, the way it looks etc etc). If these capabilities meet your criteria now, they will still meet those criteria in two years, even if there is other machines or software then on the market that greatly outperforms them or are better in every aspect. The machine still has it’s value for what you do and have done with it.
It’s truly a good thing that geeks doesn’t rule the world for it would collapse in shorter time than one could say Intel transition.
You’re going about this all wrong. You should be looking at reported sales figures historically and in the future, not looking for short-term indicators in their “Top Sellers” box. All of those items are significantly cheaper, higher-volume units, and there hasn’t been any product refreshes in the Mac department. Wait for data, instead of jumping the gun and yelling “SEE THEY WERE RIGHT NO ONE IS BUYING MACS!!!”
> All this goes to show is that theres a reason that the
> geeks, techies and general computer nerds are seldom found
> in the board rooms or marketing divisions.
They don’t want the jobs?
> Loads of people predicted that the iPod mini would fail due
> to not having enought capacity for the price compared to the
> smallest “regular” iPod.
“Loads of people” predict the failure of everything, for both good and bad reasons. Predicting failure, question the motives of others, and otherwise being a pessimistic naysayer is an Internet Passtime.
I’m sure more people said that the iPod Mini was a poor value than predicted its failure.
> It’s truly a good thing that geeks doesn’t rule the world
> for it would collapse in shorter time than one could say
> Intel transition.
The world would collapse because these geek overlords would fail to produce items for consumers that they might otherwise purchase, because instead presumably they’ve only mandated something that seems more “optimal?” Oh yes, it would all fall apart.
There’s a large step from not overestimating the average person’s ability to make purchase decisions solely on optimizing value and ending civilization. Maybe you can fill in the blanks for us.
well, you are certainly right in that there is actually no data to talk about. lets wait a couple of month and then have a look at some real numbers.
having said that, the switch surely made me overthrow my plans to buy a mac to widen my horizon on the os front, because i would mind if there is far less software for the mashine in just 2 years. and it would realy surprise me if many developers are going to support both cpus long term.
Why would developpers start to drop PPC support in two years. Do you think that the first day Apple sells an Intel Mac the 25 to 30 millions PPC Mac already in use will vanish or suddenly become irrelevant.
“OK, so the move to Intel might not make much difference to most – but if you code in FORTRAN (as many scientists still do), one is highly compiler and chip dependent.”
I code in F90. Fortran is most definitly not “highly compiler and chip dependent”. You’ll potentially (depending on if Intel and/or Portland provides it) have access to MUCH better Fortran compilers than were available on OS X.
Most research clusters use either Xeon or Opteron.
SPARC is a very bad choice both for good Fortran support (these days) and Beowulf-cluster-node performance/dollar.
I suggest doing a little research in HPC before spending a great deal of money on anything.
“Why would developpers start to drop PPC support in two years. Do you think that the first day Apple sells an Intel Mac the 25 to 30 millions PPC Mac already in use will vanish or suddenly become irrelevant. ”
For good reason. People with really old machines don’t tend to buy new software.
> For good reason. People with really old machines don’t tend to buy new software.
A computer that’s a few years old isn’t “really old,” and at this point is going to be sufficiently-fast to run most software in the near future. I mean Macs were selling for years with underpowered processors and the faithful seemed content with their inherent superiority. Don’t think that someone that drops $3k on a Power Mac is going to be averse to new making software purchases.
>Why would developpers start to drop PPC support in two years.
simple: software developement is expensive and no matter how much uncle steve is telling that it is no work to have two seperate versions, it still is far from the reality in most cases. so many developers will have to decide, and i doubt they will decide for an abandoned platform. have a look in apples guide for porting software to x86… application developement will suck badly during the transitional phase.
OK ! Many developpers will drop the 20 millions (more or less) users running OS X on PPC (damned ! It’ll be difficult to find new software and updates for my G5 running Leopard) to care only for the many millions running it on Intel (no doubt Apple will sell millions of Intel based Mac and the PPC will rapidly, if not instantaneously become an economically uninteresting and technically orphaned platform).
“A computer that’s a few years old isn’t “really old,” and at this point is going to be sufficiently-fast to run most software in the near future.”
They don’t tend to BUY new software. That’s the point.
[QUOTE]
I mean Macs were selling for years with underpowered processors and the faithful seemed content with their inherent superiority. Don’t think that someone that drops $3k on a Power Mac is going to be averse to new making software purchases.[/QUOTE]
Now, no. 5 years after making that $3k purchase? Yes.
Manik: Why would developpers start to drop PPC support in two years. Do you think that the first day Apple sells an Intel Mac the 25 to 30 millions PPC Mac already in use will vanish or suddenly become irrelevant.
elsa: simple: software developement is expensive and no matter how much uncle steve is telling that it is no work to have two seperate versions, it still is far from the reality in most cases. so many developers will have to decide, and i doubt they will decide for an abandoned platform. have a look in apples guide for porting software to x86… application developement will suck badly during the transitional phase.
I agree with Elsa.
Honestly… Developers will eventually drop the PPC Macs. As for when… That’s entirely up to them. From my experience, some developers start doing it rather early. In fact, I’ve seen a few (Note: As in a very small number) developers do it practically immediately sometimes.
My point being… Despite what some people here claim, purchasing a Mac now is an awful risk if you intend to keep buying software and hardware for it for the next few years. Also despite what some people claim this isn’t the same thing as “buying a new TV this month and having it out of date next month” (or a processor speed bump or what have you) this is a MAJOR architecture change. Those only happen once in quite a while.
When was the last one for the Mac that was drastic? I can’t remember, but it was a long time ago, it was the transition from the old 68K processors to the PPC processors. In other words, there is exactly ONE other transistion that is that drastic in the history of the Mac. (There are some others that are close. For example, the move to 64-bits but how often has moves like that happened? Not often for that either.)
In fact, as a result waiting on buying a Mac is actually quite reasonable. Basicly… There are three choices for buying a Mac right now… 1) Buy a Mac now with the PPC processor, but it MIGHT not be too well supported in a couple years (not a big deal for quite a few people), 2) But an Intel Mac later, but it might be a little problematic since it will be a first generation, 3) Wait and see if the price on PPC Macs falls, then pick one up.
(I’m going for #3 myself.)
I have no doubt all developpers will drop PPC support someday. Apple will do it too. I highly doubt many will do it in 2007, or even before 2010 (in fact I’m even more optimistic).
Never heard of Universal Binaries I take it? If a developer is making software for OS X how hard is it to click PPC and x86?
Get a clue!
1.) Apple will eventually drop support for PPC Macs.
2.) Some developers will drop support immediately, others will still churn out software even after that platform is nothing but a memory to most people.
3.) Apple may see a small dip in sales if they can’t convince technologically zealous people their PPC Macs won’t suddenly become paperweights in 14 months
4.) There will be a small (though probably smaller than the dip) increase in sales to people who want to get a last-generation PPC Mac, either for collector purposes or love of the PPC chip.
Developers don’t want to make universal binaries for a long time.
“Never heard of Universal Binaries I take it? If a developer is making software for OS X how hard is it to click PPC and x86?
Get a clue!
”
Will the Universal binary run without problems on both Intel and PPC architectures? Having Universal Binaries only ensures that your program can *run* on Intel and PPC, not that the program runs *correctly*. It cannot help with the logic of the program at all. Intel is little-endian, PPC is big-endian, so there are byte order issues to iron out, which are often subtle and can take significant extra effort. Eventually, most developers just won’t bother with such problems, and they will go with a single architecture (Intel).
> They don’t tend to BUY new software. That’s the point.
That’s not a “point,” it’s an assertion. If it were true then it wouldn’t matter that there wasn’t software being sold for their platform, because apparently they don’t buy software. Of course people buy software in accordance with need/desire and the capability to utilize it. Any $3k personal computer you buy today will be able to run the vast majority of applications five years from now. They just don’t need a faster computer for what they do. That doesn’t mean they don’t want a new puzzle game, or library management software, or software for interfacing the GPS they just bought.
There will be literally millions of people that aren’t going to buy a new Mac/x86 for a number of years. If they want a piece of software, they’ll buy it. Since the vast majority of ISVs will just be moving software they’re already developing for Mac/PPC to Mac/x86 they aren’t going to just stop selling to the much larger Mac/PPC customer base for no reason.
In five years, the Mac/PPC may be largely obsoleted and it might not. That’s five years from now, and that’s a fairly good lifespan for someone that buys new computers regularly enough to actually purchase software and thus need to be concerned about the existence of software for the platform, given your assertion.
Apple has not sold a G3 processor-equipped Mac for a while, and developers have not abandonned the G3 processor in their software. They could, by all means, make apps that do not run on the G3, by making heavy use of Altivec (and libraries that use Altivec like veclib). Yet they haven’t. The same goes for 64-bit native binaries that could not run on pre-G5 Macs. Simple said, a PPC mac purchased right now will last its upgrade cycle, in terms of software support. The only x86-only apps that I see happening, in very small numbers, is apps written by new Mac users who got their first Mac/developer platform as an x86 machine. All existing software that runs on PPC will continue to run on PPC. In fact, I see the amount of PPC-native apps exceding the number of x86 (or universal) apps on the Mac for the next 5-8 years, simply because these apps are already there, and will be trivial for developers to keep making PPC versions of (and if not, which is unlikely, there will always be the current versions which run on PPC just fine).
It will be a while before I get *any* Intel Mac customers for my casual games at all. Certainly 5 years before they’ve all switched to Intel is not an unreasonable timeframe. My games also run on win32, so supporting both Intel and PPC Mac is trivial. The Apple announcement did affect my sales for a bit though – probably people think twice before buying new PPC software now.
Best regards,
Emmanuel
Cartoon minigolf for MacOS X:
http://www.funpause.com/
“That’s not a “point,” it’s an assertion. ”
Your reply that “yes they can still run software” was orthogonal to the point I was trying to make that most software purchases are near the time of the purchase of the system. Especially high-dollar titles.
“If it were true then it wouldn’t matter that there wasn’t software being sold for their platform, because apparently they don’t buy software.”
I said they TEND not to, not that they never do. The software won’t be there because most ISVs will assume they won’t sell much to an orphaned platform that is no longer sold by the vendor.
“Any $3k personal computer you buy today will be able to run the vast majority of applications five years from now.”
Did you somehow feel the need to repeat this? Regardless, most personal computers aren’t $3k. Most are much less.
“In five years, the Mac/PPC may be largely obsoleted and it might not.”
Unless Apple switches back, it will be. What’s more, since OS X, Apple has not been supporting their older systems to the extent PC users are accustomed.
I’ve seen platform changes before. PPC won’t last long as a viable platform once (and if) Apple stops selling them. That’s reality. This’ll be a harder transition than the 68k->PPC.
“They could, by all means, make apps that do not run on the G3, by making heavy use of Altivec (and libraries that use Altivec like veclib). ”
Quite a few have – and quite a few would have no use for Altivec.
“The same goes for 64-bit native binaries that could not run on pre-G5 Macs. ”
This hasn’t happend – not for love of the G3, but because Mac OS X is not yet a 64-bit operating system to need 64-bit native binaries – and, all else being equal, a 64-bit app is slower than the identical 32-bit app, so one only builds -64 if you need 64 bit memory addresses.
“All existing software that runs on PPC will continue to run on PPC.”
The problem with this is that there is often no (not free, at least and depending on the vendor continuing to support that application) upgrade path for those applications you bought for the PPC Mac during that time. Ordinarily, one could just install the apps on the new machine. Now, that likely won’t work (Rosetta is limited).
Sorry to say but that “Update” part throws the article in with that QNX review for mental midgetry. A> if you compare to a different site, of COURSE you’ll get different results (nu-duh), B> if you restrict the search to the COMPUTERS category, specifically laptops one WOULD EXPECT computers to be on the list. C> what type of mental midget buys computers through AMAZON? (same type that buys Apple it seems)
As to a decrease in sales, also DUH, you announce a chipset jump, make backwards compatability iffy and possibly undesirable, say the reason for the switch was cost control, and OF COURSE your existing product line is going to suffer, as most people are going to wait for the new ones, especially their much vaunted “Switchers”
Unless this kind of information is systematically sampled over a period of time, say at least a week, it’s totally and utterly useless. It means absolutely nothing.
It’s nice to see that sensationalist journalism is still popular though.
It’s psychological. The second that the Intel Macs come out, the PPC Macs are going to SEEM old-fashioned, which will drive the shallow, trendy, featherbrained Mac fanboys absolutely bonkers – driving the PPC into quick obsolescence.
The update is meaningless. The amazon list is in the computer category, so there won’t be any iPods there. On the Apple store, Macs are out of the picture:
# iPod mini
# iPod shuffle
# iTunes Gift Certificate
# iPod 20GB
# iPod USB Power Adapter
# iTunes Music Store Card $15
# iPod photo
# AppleCare for iPod
# iTunes Music Store Card $25
# Mac OS X v10.4 “Tiger”
Precisely so – and that is why there are tens of thousands of Mac Fanboys like me running hardware from Apple that spans decades, from an SE running System 6 to G5s running 10.4 (with a fair collection of machines in between thanks very much). By keeping each machine running fairly contemporary software it works as well as it did when it was brand new. An LCIII or LC475 makes a damn fine child’s first Mac or Homework computer even if it hasn’t been officially supported for many years. Eventually my G5s will be replaced with Intel based Macs that won’t immediately turn them into doorstops. Sure in a few years it might be hard to get new software for them but by then they probably won’t have the guts to run it reasonably anyway (and that would happen due to the steady march of technology even if Apple didn’t change processors) just as my G3 won’t run the Adobe Creative Suite, my G4 will but a bit slowly and my G5 runs it just fine. No news there as anyone who has had a computer for more than a couple of years will tell you.
Umm… people who develop in a high level language do nothave to worry about endian-ness.
Umm… people who develop in a high level language do nothave to worry about endian-ness.
I call bullshit… I develop in C++ and have to deal with endian-ness all the time… Any data that is going over a wire (be it ethernet or 1553) must be endian correct. You can minimize the impact using the macros defined to adjust to the target and network orientation, but it’s definately a consideration. If you aren’t worried about endian-ness, then you must still be in school… 😉
I still maintain that unless there’s some dramatic continuing shift, this is just people seeing what they want to. I mean, people who think Apple is going to go down like the Hindenburg are going to see minor fluctuations as proving them right.
This isn’t to say they aren’t, but it’s been a few weeks.