Linuxwatch.com is running a great story called “Five Reasons NOT To Use Linux.” It includes a nice list of reasons why one might want to steer clear of Linux, along with a nice comparison to how easily these reasons are addressed in Microsoft Windows.
Five Reasons NOT To Use Linux
About The Author
Adam Scheinberg
Technology Executive • Web Developer • Father • Foodie • Music Snob • OS enthusiast
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I hope everyone got a chance to RTFA before posting. It’s a really nice piece or irony.
very cute
I’m definately not using Linux now…
Someone have a mirror?
🙂
Add to that Linux still needs play catch up with regards to innovative trojans, spywares, adwares and viruses. Since OSS is all about copying, when can’t these open sores developers just copy them. That’s why Linux will never be ready for the desktop ever! I’m not even going to talk about which toolkit to use to port them. It’s a mess.
Sounds like they listened to The Linux Link Tech Show’s “Windows Crash Radio” show and then wrote this. TLLTS 4 LIFE, BY CROM!!
http://mirror.linuxquestions.org/pub/archive/tllts/tllts_77-03-30-0…
Everyone listen to this!
“http://mirror.linuxquestions.org/pub/archive/tllts/tllts_77-03-30-0…..
Everyone listen to this!”
Now that’s how you do it! brilliant!
This article may be satirical, but to me it seems like flame bate, or possibly trolling.
This article may be satirical, but to me it seems like flame bate, or possibly trolling.
We are talking about ZiffDavis, after all. Home of the Kings and Queens of poking hornets with a stick for raitings and page views.
That said, I agree with every last satirical point made in it, bar none.
I agree, I think this article sucks. It sounds like it was written by a spiteful 15 year old.
“I agree, I think this article sucks. It sounds like it was written by a spiteful 15 year old.”
That is a really constructive comment you may as well have posted.
“And they hurt my feelings :'(.”
This is not cute or clever. This is not good tongue-in-cheek irony.
Listen, I am a Linux geek (if only I didn’t have to make that disclaimer before voicing my opinion) but when I clicked on this link I was expecting some kind of honest dissent — Not another smarmy dressing-down of windows and all its problems. Look, we all know those problems; let’s be adult about them. I know it’s too much to ask. It makes me ashamed to be a Linux geek sometimes. On OSNews, most of us think windows sucks and other OSes are better. This kind of “pandering to your audience” is not productive or clever.
Either give us an article with some *new* reasons why Linux is better, or some *new* reasons why windows is worse, or else hold your piece.
Really. It wasn’t even funny or anything.
okay maybe not the funniest thing in the world, look at the Category icon do you expect a serious article to proceed a laughing pumpkin?
Myself, personally, I thought it was a little humorous, especially about unpatched Linux systems lasts for months, but what’s the fun of that?! 🙂
But I can fully understand your point, and I guess I would agree. It does get old.
But for myself personally, I would like to see a LOT more discussions of BSD’s vs Linux, and debunking this whole notion of how greatly secure Linux is, vs Windows. Ok, yes, Linux IS much more secure and stable, but did you check the BSD’s? How does a default install, unpatched BSD compare to Linux for security and stability?
http://people.freebsd.org/~murray/bsd_flier.html
How does a default install, unpatched BSD compare to Linux for security and stability?
Next time provide an URL that leads to article that’s actually up-to-date. From the article: ,,There are several new journaling filesystems in development for Linux that will fix some of these issues, but these will not be ready for the 2.4 release of Linux.”.
Yeah.. 2.4.. 😉
yeh I’m sure comparing BSD to linux 2.2 years ago showed that BSD was better. But now it’s a no-contest.
between the 2.
Performance: Linux, it’s rewritten the entire TCP/IP stack twice I think since 2.2, and it’s played with several new scedualers and journaled FS http://software.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=04/12/27/1243207&tid=7…
Drivers: Oh come on, one word, Wireless. BSD still is completely lacking.
FS: XFS. ReiserFS(or Reiser4), JFS. Linux’s filesystem options are much more advanced, secure, and powerful thea either UFS or UFS2.
Security: they are about the same, unless u use a secuirty patched linux kernel that implements grsecurity or selinux, in which case linux.
packages, distro specific. I don’t see how freebsd has a greater selection then Gentoo, Debian, etc.
Version control.. Yeh, once again linux has it.
Support, from ubuntu, to redhat and mandriva, linux’s support options easy dominate that of BSDs.
I think someone should recreate this article, not using age-old software and a complete BSD-favored slant.
In terms of security, I think OpenBSD could still hold its own against a GNU/Linux system . Also I don’t understand your comment about version control: pretty much every commonly used system that works on Linux works on BSD, and git is not an SCM panacea. Further I’m convinced that the IP stack is noticeably poorer, nor am I certain the file-systems are noticeable better (also it must be said, very few distros support XFS, JFS or Reiser4, in fact most default to ext3).
I’m no BSD expert, and I think that for general use GNU/Linux systems might be a bit better, but I wouldn’t discount everything BSD has to offer. Linux based it’s networking stack off it, there could be something else there for it to “borrow” as well.
That should be “Further I’m not convinced that the IP stack is noticeably poorer, nor am I certain the file-systems are noticeable better”
They are quoting FreeBSD in the example I responded to, not OpenBSD, so I couldn’t say. And the article I quoted also said that linux had virtually no version support. I was just addressing the issues in which the article stated BSD was clearly ahead. I give BSD credit where credit is due, I like it myself and love the way NetBSD is implemented, but if you were to read the link that the user I replied to posted, u’d see it’s more then a bit BSD-sided.
(a link that that again is http://people.freebsd.org/~murray/bsd_flier.html )
some quotes
“The network performance of Linux is 20-30% below the capacity of FreeBSD running on the same hardware”
They also stated Linux’s security is about that of Windows 2000.
Then they compared BSD’s UFS to Linux’s ext2, and scored it minimally.
“Linux does not use any version control system”
It was less a response toward BSD as a rebuddle against outdated and misinformed crap like that article as a basis for comparing Linux and BSD.
> Performance: Linux, it’s rewritten the entire TCP/IP stack twice I think since 2.2, and it’s played with several new scedualers and journaled FS http://software.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=04/12/27/1243207&t…
You do not measure TCP/IP performance with a database benchmark.
> Drivers: Oh come on, one word, Wireless. BSD still is completely lacking.
Lacking proprietary drivers, you mean? (have you tried OpenBSD?)
> FS: XFS. ReiserFS(or Reiser4), JFS. Linux’s filesystem options are much more advanced, secure, and powerful thea either UFS or UFS2.
UFS2 supports extended attributes for ACLs, it is very robust and scalable, and its soft-updates mechanism makes journaling less necessary. Now, tell me why the Linux community do need so much filesystems?
> Security: they are about the same, unless u use a secuirty patched linux kernel that implements grsecurity or selinux, in which case linux.
OpenBSD is much more secure out of the box than any Linux distribution.
> packages, distro specific. I don’t see how freebsd has a greater selection then Gentoo, Debian, etc.
> Version control.. Yeh, once again linux has it.
I do agree.
> Support, from ubuntu, to redhat and mandriva, linux’s support options easy dominate that of BSDs.
If you pay the price, yeah (not that it is a bad thing, of course).
> I think someone should recreate this article, not using age-old software and a complete BSD-favored slant.
Propaganda is propaganda, wherever it comes from.
Either give us an article with some *new* reasons why Linux is better, or some *new* reasons why windows is worse, or else hold your piece.
If we were going to insist upon new reasons, people would check this site every month and find one or two articles. Commentary on both articles would be promptly terminated when somebody realises that it isn’t actually a new reason, simply an insignificant variation on the old one.
On the whole, I didn’t think the article was funny though — though the last line was great.
The article WAS funny, but that’s a subjective thing. What the whole Linux camp is fighting is the steady drumbeat of misinformation from Microsoft and their allies. They’re playing the game of, “if we say it enough times in enough ways, people will eventually believe it”. I think the Linux side should shout their advantages as often as anyone will listen. Sure, someone has said at some time in the past that Linux is has the advantages over Windows. It is not enough to say it once. That line of reasoning is used by the husband who says, ‘I love you’ once and check it off his list.
This is not so much a technical issue as combating a techmarketing strategy by Microsoft. If you’re a tech manager deciding on which OS to implement and you search for MS vs Linux info and all you find are fresh articles supporting Windows and old ones supporting Linux, what will you conclude? It may not be the deciding factor, but to someone just breaching the subject it will lend weight to the MS side of the argument.
The pro-Microsoft trade press is going to make sure there is a new article sitting there ready to make thier case. I hope the truth about Linux doesn’t become a needle in a haystack.
The article WAS funny, but that’s a subjective thing. What the whole Linux camp is fighting is the steady drumbeat of misinformation from Microsoft and their allies. They’re playing the game of, “if we say it enough times in enough ways, people will eventually believe it”. I think the Linux side should shout their advantages as often as anyone will listen.
THe problem with this logic is that in the article linked (and many like it), there is just as much misinformation about Windows. For example, saying:
Well, still, with Windows you get so many more choices of software, don’t you? Like Lotus 1-2… oh really? I didn’t know that. Or, WordPerfect… oh, pretty much dead too.
Is just downright dishonest. Hell, there’s probably at least two dozen office suites alone on Windows, not to mention that most (if not all the apps) he mentions run on it. If you’re trying to answer bullshit with more bullshit of your own, how intellectually honest is that?
Hell, there’s probably at least two dozen office suites alone on Windows, not to mention that most (if not all the apps) he mentions run on it. If you’re trying to answer bullshit with more bullshit of your own, how intellectually honest is that?
Okay, I’m calling your bullshit. Name me two dozen office suites for Windows. And no, multiple versions of the same office suite don’t count.
And you have the gall to talk about intellectual honesty? Then again, one shouldn’t expect too much from astro…I mean anonymous posters.
Okay, I’m calling your bullshit. Name me two dozen office suites for Windows. And no, multiple versions of the same office suite don’t count.
Notice I said probably … and the reason why I said that is because I know there is MS Office, Word Perfect Office, OpenOffice, ThinkFree, EasyOffice, Gobe Productive, Lotus, and hell … those are just the ones I personally know about. God only knows how many of them there really are. My point here is that the article insinuates Windows = lack of choice, which is not true at all:
BTW: This is Darius – I’m too lazy to register
Notice I said probably … and the reason why I said that is because I know there is MS Office, Word Perfect Office, OpenOffice, ThinkFree, EasyOffice, Gobe Productive, Lotus, and hell … those are just the ones I personally know about.
Now, let’s see…that’s seven. We’re still seventeen short.
I think it’s safe to say that, in this instance, “probably” was a poor choice of words. We’ll leave it at that, but you really shouldn’t exaggerate like that, it doesn’t make your argument more credible.
BTW: This is Darius – I’m too lazy to register
That’s why cookies were invented. 🙂
I think I understand where you are coming from. I guess everyone is motivated by their hate for for Microsoft. If the shoe was on the other foot , linux would be the unusable instable OS with viruses, adware and spam insecurities. I agree with the authors underlined sentament that a linux workstation, server, device, etc. is a perfectly viable solution, but with the anti-linux propaganda flooding the air waves, who can hear it let alone receive it. I really don’t care what OS I use but I would lean toward linux because ,in my case, it helps me curb my illegal software tendencies (if you catch my drift). Yes windows is a great OS, but I can’t afford to pay for all the software it takes to get me to a comfortable state and maintain it let alone ward of the countless hackers bent on Microsoft destruction.
The way to choose your system as a SysAd would be “let’s check the recent press and see what system the articles are about”? ’nuff said
Repeat after me;
Ziff-Davis
always trolls for publicity.
well, the article wasn’t really for you nor for the rest of us, who should know this kind of things well (hmm, may be?).
it’s for the rest. and these are the well-heard-of reasons why many people don’t give linux a go.
[but i do agree that it sounds trollish and childish]
I agree… i expected an article pointing out some interesting things about Windows… they might be of interest for Linux (or other OS) developers you know… but no, you a plain old stupid flamebait.
I do use Linux, but on some systems, the main system is windows… reason :
1/ MS Office (on windows, not even the latest versions) does really offer me features i don’t get with OpenOffice or other software… esp. animations in Powerpoint etc.. (very useful for illustrating technical issues and algorithms or protocol operations)
2/ I like to play games from time to time
3/ My external HD still doesn’t work (the card readers that or part of it do), my digital camera neither… i’ve been trying a lot, playing with modules etc.. But no success… I never had a piece of hardware that didn’t work at all in windows. True, true… some standard hardware might have issues in windows and none in linux, but still, i don’t expect a computer illiterate to install modules (or even compile them, er worse, recompile the kernel) to get pictures from his digital camera onto his HD… In windows, installing from an autorun CD worked so far. Oh, and i won’t mention issues with wireless cards
4/ although i don’t config files are really a problem (windows has it registry too), having an integrated gui allowing to configure anything is sometimes useful… Sometimes i’m just lazy and want to point and click. Well ok, i shouldn’t have this issue as point 4.. this is not a reason to stick to an OS
5/ Some small little software just doesn’t exist in Linux… Just some small tools. Many tools exist in linux, and when looking aroun, i find something useful. But well, sometimes i have to return to windows.
well, lot’s of these ‘problems’ are not the fault of linux, but caused by 3rd party mentalities… or perhaps the reasons are with linux … don’t know…
My point is, i still stick with both, i love linux… but articles like the one we’re commenting on are just pathetic
My sentiments exactly.
It’s so so old and boring.
Lighten up it’s satire. Yeah it’s been posted before. Yeah it’s old news. But if you wern’t so busy taking things to seriously you would have probably thought it was funny too.
Not very good though.
If they wanted to make fun of Windows installs that’s pretty easy. You have to:
1.) Put in the cd
2.) Partition (easiest partition utility ever)
3.) Reboot
4.) Don’t boot off the cd
5.) Put in a computer name, key, and a couple other things.
I think the not booting off the cd on the second boot is the tricky part
.
easiest partition utility ever if you want al your data lost, sorry, but really, it is easy to partition, but you have absolutely noooooothing to say about it, except, there that partition, nothing like, I wanna shrink that partition, and this and that.
That’s part of why it’s so easy to use…
“4.) Don’t boot off the cd ”
Actually, if your hardrive is bootable and you dont press any key, you will boot off your hardrive, even if the cd is in the cdrom.
My 2 canadian cents…
There’s a problem with this though — what if the CD doesn’t have all the drivers that your computer requires? How do you download updates (or even the driver itself) if the ethernet driver is missing?
Don’t laugh – my “very high end” Dell workstation’s reinstall CD doesn’t contain the ETHERNET DRIVERS for the machine! So the 2 times (so far) that I’ve had to reinstall Windows has required me (both times) to download the ethernet driver on another PC and use my USB key to copy the file to the machine. This is a $7000+ PC, and it doesn’t have the ethernet drivers on its reinstall CD. Good Lord what are people thinking?!
these are responses you will get:
1) my computer isn’t booting from cd
2) Why should I choose NTFS or FAT32? Why do I push L to delete a partition?
->compare this to diskdrake or suse’s partition tool.
3) reboot X 30
4) I want to give the cd the boot.
5) and all the drivers, and other programs you’ll need that will require 30 more reboots, and are installed on any base linux system.
Except, of course, you might still want to buy an anti-viral program (Norton Anti-Virus: $40), anti-spyware software (McAfee Anti-Spyware: $25); and a full-featured firewall (Zone Alarm Pro: $35). But, hey, who needs those when you have a secure operating system like Windows!
Or get AVG, Spybot and Kerio, all for free – and all far superior than any product you can throw money at, fact.
It goes both ways daddio.
Or get AVG, Spybot and Kerio, all for free – and all far superior than any product you can throw money at, fact.
You can get AVG and Kerio for free *for personal use only*. You can’t use them at work without purchasing a license.
…and I despise Microsoft products and operating systems, but that was a pretty ignorant article. Ironic, yes, but not in the ways the author intended. It’s also been done before.
As in free b33r. Not as in speech. There’s a difference
i use linux (currently fedora core release 4) and i wonder the motive behind this ‘article’
Reason number one: Linux is too complicated
oh and rm -rf / leaves your system intact ?
Reason number two: Linux is a pain to set up
If the above is supposed to mean that linux doesnt need patches, then that is rediculous to say the least. Even the distro i’m using right now had patches ready for download on the day it was released to the mirrors.
Reason number three: Linux doesn’t have enough applications
and those applications listed that it does have are freely downloadable for windows users too. so ?
Reason number 4: Linux isn’t secure
it’s as secure as the admin behind it, same as for windows.
Reason number 5: Linux is more expensive
oh that’s right ! windows users pay for everything they install, there is no free software out there for them at all ! unlike linux.
this article is interesting in it’s spin, but at the same time as a linux user and a windows user (and for you fanboys of either side i use both daily and guess what, love both) find this is just TOO one sided.
cheers
anyweb
oh and rm -rf / leaves your system intact ?
Yes, because most of users ARE NOT ABLE to delete /. Do you know what deltree is?
and those applications listed that it does have are freely downloadable for windows users too. so ?
Not all of them, but that’s not a point. I can get software, that’s high quality AND it will upgrade with the OS upgrades.
it’s as secure as the admin behind it, same as for windows.
I can asure you that clueless *NIX admin will be get less machine hacked that his clueless Windows admin.
find this is just TOO one sided.
This article is a joke.
I can asure you that clueless *NIX admin will be get less machine hacked that his clueless Windows admin.
I seriously doubt that, but in either case if the admin really is clueless they won’t realize they’ve been hacked until someone tells them about it.
Out-of-the-box security on *NIX is a bit higher.
Never, never underestimate the damage potential of the unclued user when dealing with a unix-like OS.
I do not. I know person behind system it’s the weakest part. *NIX will give you gun, but Windows will load it and point it againt your forhead with a popup — press! Claim your win!
how true it is..
But then again going to a webpage in linux (or any *x for that matter) doesnt normally compromise your system,, unlike a certain other OS.
“Yes, because most of users ARE NOT ABLE to delete /. Do you know what deltree is? ”
The whole argument about Linux security being better due to file permissions is all BS. The files that are hard to replace and sometimes irreplaceable ARE able to be wiped out; only the easily reinstalled files are left intact.
Yes, the security model is an improvment but no it will not protect important data.
Well some OS developers have tackled that issue. For instance, Apple system have root, administrator (more like power user) and user. root user activation is deliberate. So if your destroying your system, you are well aware of it.
I’m not exactly sure why other *inix’s haven’t adopted this concept of the security the the “root” account
The whole argument about Linux security being better due to file permissions is all BS. The files that are hard to replace and sometimes irreplaceable ARE able to be wiped out; only the easily reinstalled files are left intact.
Yes, the security model is an improvment but no it will not protect important data.
The point is not about losing files – hey, one should do backups anyway, because hard drives fail. I’ve owned enough computers to know that.
The point is to avoid having your Windows box turned into a spam zombie, which then pollutes my mailbox with messages about prescription drugs and penile extensions.
Yes, the security model is an improvment but no it will not protect important data.
The point is not about losing files – hey, one should do backups anyway, because hard drives fail. I’ve owned enough computers to know that.
The point is to avoid having your Windows box turned into a spam zombie, which then pollutes my mailbox with messages about prescription drugs and penile extensions.
Still invalid… today the vast majority of computers run under 1 username even if you cannot turn the machine into a spam zombie at the system level you can still do it at the user level just as easily and still be as effective. In fact I have seen many worms and spyware run as the user with the user’s rights…
Removing the malware might be easier at the user level however but not much…
And do you know what format C: leaves your systems intact? Asking rm -rf / was a most stupid question i ever seen. If you dont know where to use which command, STOP using computers! they are not for people like you!
Reason number 4: Linux isn’t secure
it’s as secure as the admin behind it, same as for windows.
Technically, there are no known remote vulnerabilities in the Linux kernel. To say that it is less secure than Windows is incorrect.
It is a fact, the Linux kernel is more secure than any Windows OS.
Plus, even without exceptional sys admin skillz, like my own, most users would never encounter a virus, adware or spyware throughout the entire life of their account. And if they were somehow to be infected the chances that it could damage the OS are quite slim and getting slimmer every day.
See, the thing is, most Linux distros are made by developers for developers, so they just look like toys because all the wires and guts are exposed. But when you put the paneling back on and polish it up you get a Space Shuttle. Its like they’re giving away free kits to build your own Space Shuttle and all people do is bitch about how hard it is.. even after someone did most of the work putting it together for them.
What’s wrong? We’ve come this far, but now you want to give up? Is it too hard for you? Is space too dangerous for you? And here I thought we wanted to do something with our lives besides waste away on the couch watching TV…
Yeah, I know, don’t bother you.. money.
…sorry.. those voices are talking again… m make them stop.. ^^
Technically, there are no known remote vulnerabilities in the Linux kernel. To say that it is less secure than Windows is incorrect.
However, from time to time there has indeed been remote vulnaribilities to most distros and probably the kernel as well just like the Windows system.
Security is a nonsense argument these days, with XP and 2k3 Microsoft has really tightened up this stuff make no mistake.
If you’re into security as a reason I can’t see why you compare Linux with Windows anyway, both are jokes compared to for instance Solaris or VMS or OpenBSD.
Fact of the game is that choice between Windows and Linux is more about preference than most other reasons… (on the desktop side that is)
Security is a nonsense argument these days, with XP and 2k3 Microsoft has really tightened up this stuff make no mistake.
Make no mistake about what? That security is a nonsense argument because Windows is horribly insecure?
Solaris is more secure than any Linux distro? I guess you haven’t heard of trusted Linux, SELinux, etc.
Its hard to understand what you are saying when you fail to mention specifics.
Yes, I know you want to attack Linux and sound intelligent. Perhaps you should research a bit first. That seems to help me.
Windows is insecure. Just last month there were new vulnerabilities in all the Windows OSs that could be used to gain administrator priveleges. To attempt to say otherwise is a lie, just like saying Iraq has WMDs.
Don’t lie. Its a sin.
Solaris is more secure than any Linux distro? I guess you haven’t heard of trusted Linux, SELinux, etc.
Actually I am primarily a Solaris admin and by default I find Solaris less secure with a lot more things open.
You have to seriously harden a Solaris box before putting it on the network.
inetd has a ton of things enabled from telnet on up that needs to be turned off and a lot of weird X server crap and smtp running by default and … you get the point.
Maybe Solaris 10 is better but we use Solaris 8 and 9 here.
Quote: “oh and rm -rf / leaves your system intact ? ”
No, it doesn’t, as you well and truly realise. Pretty much every distro out there emphasises the fact during installation to not use root, unless you *really* must, and that you should create and use a normal everday user account for normal, every day usage. Microsoft Windows does NOT do this. Do you wish to call me a liar on this one? Oh, and to add salt to your rather crappy comment, pretty much anyone using Linux, that understands what rm does, and those particular switches, will have understood what it will do (and of course never deploy that command).
If a user is that stupid, as to deploy that command, then the chances are that they’re too stupid to use Windows as well (and would fuck that up). Try working in tech support, you might have your eyes opened to some of the stupid things that users do. I’ve seen Mac users trash the System Folder (and not be able to boot up OS 9), I’ve seen Windows users trash their Windows folders as well. I’ve seen users screw the registry and have a non-working system. My point is, that stupid users like this, will persist on any platform. As a general rule, most Linux users are semi computer to highly computer literate, and the chances of them doing a rm -rf / are resultantly small.
Quote: “Reason number two: Linux is a pain to set up ”
Did you read the article carefully? I suspect not. The author was make comments on the installation processes between a variety of Linux distros (named) and Microsoft Windows. The majority of users don’t realise how “difficult” Windows is to install, because it’s pre-installed in so many instances. I think that, for those bitching about how difficult Linux is to “install”, it would be very fair to see a comparison of pre installed Linux systems vs pre installed Windows systems. Or, similarly, force Microsoft and OEM hardware manufacturers from pre-loading Microsoft Windows. That would take the wind out of the Microsoft’s sails. In a typical free market, the PC hardware should come without any operating system, with the option for a customer to:
1. purchase an operating system (or elect not to)
2. elect to have the OEM hardware manufacture pre-install chosen OS onto their new system (or not)
Tell me, why isn’t this the case? The best thing the US DOJ could have done (other than a few other things that they could have, and should have done) is to force OEM hardware manufacturers to sell OS-free systems. Try doing that now – try going to Dell etc and saying I want a PC but without Windows installed on it. You can’t do it. I know, I’ve tried.
Quote: “and those applications listed that it does have are freely downloadable for windows users too. so ? ”
And your point is? It’s pretty obvious that the author was indicating that Microsoft Windows ships with a bare minimum of applications – paint, notepad, wordpad, internet explorer, outlook express, msn messenger, windows media player, and that’s about it. Hell, it doesn’t even ship with an application that *shows* every single process running on your system. Or a disk defrager that actually works properly. Get my drift?
Quote: “it’s as secure as the admin behind it, same as for windows. ”
Agreed, but – and this is a big but – the enforcement of normal and root user rights on a Linux system will ALWAYS make a Unix/BSD/Linux system safer than the equivalent Windows system. How many Windows users disable ActiveX, or use a normal user account with no admin rights (and run applications with the ‘run as’ option)? Exactly. Windows has been dumbed down to make it easier for everyone to use, and security and reliability have been thrown out the window (no pun intended) at the expense of ease of use.
Quote: “oh that’s right ! windows users pay for everything they install, there is no free software out there for them at all ! unlike linux. ”
There is, and this part of the article is slightly misleading. That said, Linux has a much larger range of free software than Windows. And remember, it’s not only free as in price, but free as in freedom. Many free software packages for Windows do not give you the option of the src code…
Dave
“Hell, it doesn’t even ship with an application that *shows* every single process running on your system.”
Ctrl-Shift-Esc? NT 3.1 had this feature …
Everytime I read an article about the irony of the damnable Windows vs. Linux I never see viable points. Always ridiculous blimmer blammer about a worst case scenario Windows XP installation compared to a clean Linux installation that has been highly customized by a guru. What about Windows 2000? I’ve been running it for 4 years now without any trouble, it rarely ever crashes, I can usually get out of it using the task manager or by killing the application causing the trouble from the command-line. Yes, Linux crashes. I don’t like XP, I really don’t but Windows XP does not encompass every version of Windows ever released. It would sort of be, and I do say sort of be, like saying “Ubuntu sucks, therefor Linux sucks”, yes yes, it’s Debian based, blah blah. You catch my drift. XP sucks but Windows 95, Windows NT 4.0 and Windows 2000 were golden. Bah!
If you don’t want your friends to beat you at googleFight, use Windows :
http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=windows&word2…
lets see the real fight
http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=%22I+Love…
Interesting: http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=%22window…
Heh, funny. The word Windows is ambiguous though (as in glass Windows vs Microsoft Windows) so it’s not really a fair “fight”. For example:
http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=microsoft+win…
Linux wins. But that ain’t fair either because many use the term Windows and expect you to know that they’re referring to an operating system. My point is that it’s easy to cheat in a googlefight =P
Now this is just creepy:
http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=love&word2=li…
Would you believe it? A word as common as “love” actually looses against Linux?! Wow.. It says a lot about the whole “internet thing” doesn’t it?
At one with the force I am.
I would like to run a easy to install Linux OS in a shell/window of Mac OS X. I wouldn’t like having to CLI edit things or search for config files, I rather just have it to work and avoid the headaches.
And the reason I would like it in a shell, vs booting my Mac with it, is because Mac OS X runs the cooling system, and without it the fans go ballistic as a safety precaution. Plus I trust Apple’s security, it’s in their interest to do so.
Linux requires a geek, which I’m not, and Windows…well do I need to say anything?
I only have gotten one virus in 21 years of using Mac’s and that was 16 years ago, never hacked either. So I’m not at all looking foward to that end of the computing experience.
However I’m not against trying Linux and experiencing something different.
If there’s anything I’ve learnt about freedom of speech is that those who have it don’t have to go around aserting it all the time like they’re life depended on it.
I don’t care about beer freedom or speech freedom as long as I can get on peacefully.
Ya, that article was biased and had no value.
Well I was hopping for a real Linux Zealot to really criticize the os.
There are already too many Cheerleaders, and not enough serious discussions between real Linux users for the purpose of steering the development of the OS.
Unlike MS the Linux community has actual responsibility in the development of this OS, a real “this is where Linux fails list” would go a long way in improving the os.
my tooo sense.
Well I was hopping for a real Linux Zealot to really criticize the os.
There are already too many Cheerleaders, and not enough serious discussions between real Linux users for the purpose of steering the development of the OS.
Unlike MS the Linux community has actual responsibility in the development of this OS, a real “this is where Linux fails list” would go a long way in improving the os.
my tooo sense.
I agree totally.
Linux is a fully open sourced system, that means everyone can contribute.
There are loads of ways to contribute to open source, here is just a few;
1: Joint the programming effort of a favourite project.
2: Help write documentation of a favourite project.
3: Send cash to authors.
4: Write translations into your native language.
5: Write translations into lay-mans terms.
6: GIVE FEEDBACK to authors
That last point is the most important one in open source. TELL the authors what is needed/ what is not working properly. If they do not know, how can they make it better.
ALSO
You will find the authors/user groups very friendly, (compared to this site or ./)
Do not just say “linux is crap because this dont work or that dont work”…. do your part and everyone will benefit.
By Andrew Youll:
> okay maybe not the funniest thing in the world, look at
> the Category icon do you expect a serious article to
> proceed a laughing pumpkin?
Ahh, well, the *icon* makes everything as clear as an un-muddied lake.
Experience comes with time, grasshopper. Eugenia wouldn’t have gone for it.
Is this supposed to be a September 1st joke? Stuff like this happens during April 1st joke season.
really its pretty bad. Consider installing application in linux, you need to find packages for you distribution then dependencies. In windows there is alwasy the same instller and a clear indicator of version needed (9x,200 ,xp etc) its not hard for people to figure out what version of windows they are using. Figuring out what kernel you are on is not the same thing.
,,Consider installing application in linux, you need to find packages for you distribution then dependencies.”
Man, I haven’t seen dep. problem since ages. Are you sure you have ever used Linux?
,, In windows there is alwasy the same instller and a clear indicator”
And then he pulls 18 Mb of data that has only one usable file and will try to install some useless stuff in your tray.
,,Figuring out what kernel you are on is not the same thing.”
True. I’ve heard about guy proposed for Nobel price. He did uname -a in a terminal.
1) Too complicated.
Well… Linux IS more complicated. For several reasons. Most of them comes at a cost to those installing the less complicated system. But don’t forget. In 1991, no one though command lines where wierd.
2) Pain to set up.
Installation: No real difference. Except that Windows will happily delete your MBR and make you unable to boot Linux, where as Linux will at least try to make you dual boot.
Setup: Yes… but as long as hardware vendors don’t supply free-as-in-freedom drivers and applications, that won’t get better.
Linux also suffers from not having ONE! uniform widget library and desktop environment. On the other hand X is pretty flexible compared to Win32 GUI.
3) Applications.
Bogus arguments. Most of the Open Source applications also run on Windows.
4) Linux isn’t secure.
Hmm… Everyone should use the system they feel most secure with. I would never feel secure with closed source software again.
5) Prize.
This actually seems to be a valid argument. Price is however not why I’m using Open Source.
3)
“Even with the KDE and GNOME graphical windowing interfaces, it’s possible — not likely, but possible — that you’ll need to use a command line now and again, or edit a configuration file.”
Is this guy serious? I’m a regular Windows/Mac user and in a recent foray into the Linux world, I decided to try to the most “userfriendly” distro around, Ubuntu 5.04. It took me ages working in the terminal and editing config files, typing in commands from ubuntuguide.org and random websites found through googling to get basic mp3 and video support, Japanese input, install certain programs, etc. I don’t EVER have to do that in the Windows/Mac world unless I’m really trying to screw around with the computer.
You could have logged into #ubuntu, or used synaptic to get your basic mp3 and video support. You could have also looked on ubuntu’s own wiki where they have it clearly summarized.
Is this guy serious? I’m a regular Windows/Mac user and in a recent foray into the Linux world, I decided to try to the most “userfriendly” distro around, Ubuntu 5.04. It took me ages working in the terminal and editing config files, typing in commands from ubuntuguide.org and random websites found through googling to get basic mp3 and video support, Japanese input, install certain programs, etc. I don’t EVER have to do that in the Windows/Mac world unless I’m really trying to screw around with the computer.
Give Linspire or Xandros a shot. I used them both for a week and never touched the terminal once.
Give Linspire or Xandros a shot. I used them both for a week and never touched the terminal once.
Nothing against you or your experience, but using something for a week doesn’t say much at all. When most “ordinary people” want something to replace Windows or Mac, they want something that will last them years and years without major problems. Having to perform weekly maintenance or upgrades is bad, they just want to use the computer. (I know, this attitude is terrible, but most people have it.)
Yes. Because Joe Public uses Japanese input on a daily basis. It’s a complete blocker. From experience I can tell you that my Gentoo installation would display Japanese characters by default, whereas Windows seems to decide at the toss of a coin.
Seriously, first person narratives are pointless, there is no average user. Especially not one who requires Japanese input on an English install.
I do need Japanese input as do many, many foreigner I know who are living in Japan and/or working with Japanese clients.
Also displaying Japanese characters is one thing, typing them is another one. With WinXP you can easily display Japanese in the English OS, but I don’t think it comes with an input method for Japanese.
You might have noticed that 106 keys are not enough to type every single one of the 1945 jôyô-kanji, so a simple japanese keyboard layout won’t do. You need an “input method” to convert your typed romanized Japanese into kana and from there into Kanji. And that is always a big pain to get running on Linux if you’re not running your OS in Japanese from the beginning.
On OS X it’s three mouse clicks away to activate any input method for Japanese, Chinese, Korean etc. Even if you have switched your whole OS to German (as I have).
I use Cubase sx like 10 hours a week
and I’m planning to use 3ds max/poser
quite intensively in the next months
(blender won’t do, sorry).
I’ll only forsake when the killer apps I use daily will be fully fonctionnal on linux.
I’m planning to use 3ds max/poser
quite intensively in the next months
(blender won’t do, sorry).
Maya is available on Linux, just so you know.
One point for you…(though..maya is a bit too expensive for me).
What about cubase sx ?
(you see, I play in a band and we have been recording a cd for the past year….can’t switch without cubase sx)
The way I see it, the hardware for professional music creation comes with asio and wdm drivers (for windows and linux)…And, I believe that I read somewhere that the state of the audio system in linux is way behind windows/mac (no/not enough standars…). Well, If I can’t use my 3000+ € hardware with linux..I’m screwed, isn’t it ?
Besides…I know that one can make audio works on linux, but….I don’t just want it to work…
Music creation is that demanding….I want
to be able to play like 32 audio tracks and being able to record 5 tracks at the same time with a latency of less than 10ms (which is what I get now on Windows with my athlon xp2200+)
Well…as I’m not sure of the facts that I wrote in this post, you are welcome to correct mer
Well, not enough of the applications I want and need anyway.
Give me some Linux AutoCAD, Dreamweaver, and the REAL MS Office (OpenOffice is great, but it just doesn’t have all the statistical analysis tools and plugins I need and isn’t 100% file format compatible) and maybe I’ll be able to ditch Windows someday.
Oh yeah, and I might want to play some Battlefield 2 or Half-Life 2 everyonce in a while.
It’s great for servers, but Linux won’t be taking over my desktop anytime soon.
,,Well, not enough of the applications I want and need anyway.”
Then don’t change your desktop. It’s not like Linux users FORCE someone to change. When someone depends on i.e. Photoshop I will not force his to do everything in GIMP. OS’s just a tool to get your job done. You do your job better with Windows, I do my job better in Linux.
One size dosen’t fit all. Apply for both Linux and Windows.
Then don’t change your desktop. It’s not like Linux users FORCE someone to change. When someone depends on i.e. Photoshop I will not force his to do everything in GIMP. OS’s just a tool to get your job done. You do your job better with Windows, I do my job better in Linux.
One size dosen’t fit all. Apply for both Linux and Windows.
Here’s another example of a Linux Zealot becoming angry and defensive when someone brings to attention a major advantage of Windows. It’s quite a phenomenon…I see the same thing happen with Mac Zealots, and any Zealots for that matter. They feel that by using anger and assertiveness in their argument, it will some how give more substance to it, despite the fact that a particular point of the argument has been lost.
The fact is and will remain for some time that Linux does not have the variety of software available that is necessary for serious productive tasks. As other people have mentioned, there exist few serious commercial apps for Linux, such as AutoCAD, Macromedia software, Adobe software, games, video editing software, audio editing software, etc.
I don’t understand your argument of how you don’t “FORCE” people to use software. Of course you don’t, because who would let you?
,,Here’s another example of a Linux Zealot becoming angry and defensive when someone brings to attention a major advantage of Windows.”
Oh, puuhles. Is that your whole argument, insult?
,,defensive when someone brings to attention a major advantage of Windows.”
I’m not defensive. I work with people who uses different tools to get thier job done. Learning from experience.
,,As other people have mentioned, there exist few serious commercial apps for Linux, such as AutoCAD, Macromedia software, Adobe software, games, video editing software, audio editing software, etc. ”
Well, so? I know that. Most of people who pick ups Linux knows that. Why not whine to Adobe, AutoCAD, game creators and the rest? You prefer write a useless post as anon, on OSNews, to point us things we know very well?
Commercial application will come to the Linux world. Whatever you like it or not. I can only hope they will be better that free ones. Nero vs. K3B, Acrobat Reader vs. Evince/KPDF. Guess who would win.
,,I don’t understand your argument of how you don’t “FORCE” people to use software. Of course you don’t, because who would let you?”
So, if you feel so good with Windows, why whine about Linux? Trolling you like, eh? As would Yoda say.
Commercial application will come to the Linux world. Whatever you like it or not. I can only hope they will be better that free ones. Nero vs. K3B, Acrobat Reader vs. Evince/KPDF. Guess who would win.
It clearly shows you have a bias toward open-source software. Some very good commercial applications already run on Linux. But hose are not Joe’s Cd-Burner. Those are serious stuff meant for professionals. Discreet’s Smoke is one example… Softimage|XSI… all tools that are ages, not by some features beyond the free versions. For someone that uses it for 5min, it would be the same. But for people that spend the day working in a production environment with these kind of software (where a single file may be in the league of a terabyte)… you begin to reassert your position.
Mind you, i would really love that i could run Softimage|XSI at home, but boy, i won’t pay 2 grand for it… i’ll leave it only at work. And blender is ages behind… at least so far. In the last two years blender has gained quite a momentum. I hope they don’t lose it. But so far, for media prodcution, linux and OSS is not yet on par. I sure hope one day they do.
,,t clearly shows you have a bias toward open-source software.”
No. I have bias toward good software. Sometiems it’s Open, sometimes it’s not. I’m sure most of us would welcome Macromedia/Photoshop like tool compiled for Linux. As I stated before, I see two kinds of programms. Bad and good. Not licenced under licence A or B. 🙂
,,Here’s another example of a Linux Zealot becoming angry and defensive when someone brings to attention a major advantage of Windows.”
Oh, puuhles. Is that your whole argument, insult?
No, as a matter of fact that is not my whole argument. And since you wish to make an attempt at breaking apart and debunking my argument, I shall do the same to yours. Here is the *original* message posted by Anonymous (IP: 66.166.26.—):
—————-
“Well, not enough of the applications I want and need anyway.
Give me some Linux AutoCAD, Dreamweaver, and the REAL MS Office (OpenOffice is great, but it just doesn’t have all the statistical analysis tools and plugins I need and isn’t 100% file format compatible) and maybe I’ll be able to ditch Windows someday.
Oh yeah, and I might want to play some Battlefield 2 or Half-Life 2 everyonce in a while.
It’s great for servers, but Linux won’t be taking over my desktop anytime soon.”
———————
This person is simply stating that the applications he needs are not available for Linux, hence his lack of desire to switch. Your reply was the following:
——————-
“Then don’t change your desktop. It’s not like Linux users FORCE someone to change. When someone depends on i.e. Photoshop I will not force his to do everything in GIMP. OS’s just a tool to get your job done. You do your job better with Windows, I do my job better in Linux.
One size dosen’t fit all. Apply for both Linux and Windows.”
———
Again, I will iterate the fact that you have become angry and defensive, stating that you will not “force” people to use certain software. This is just as weak of an argument (if not weaker) than calling you a Linux Zealot. This person has already stated that he will not use Linux because of the lack of software, so why are you then telling him to not use Linux? He obviously knows that one size doesn’t fit all.
I in fact agree with him totally. Linux is a very versatile operating system when used as a server, but the software for desktop users just isn’t there.
,,As other people have mentioned, there exist few serious commercial apps for Linux, such as AutoCAD, Macromedia software, Adobe software, games, video editing software, audio editing software, etc. ”
Well, so? I know that. Most of people who pick ups Linux knows that. Why not whine to Adobe, AutoCAD, game creators and the rest? You prefer write a useless post as anon, on OSNews, to point us things we know very well?
Most people who pick up Linux and do not NEED that software may know that. And why would I “whine” to software companies to make software for Linux? I probably wouldn’t switch even if there were more software simply because I don’t like Linux as a desktop OS. This is yet another example of your defensiveness and touchiness on the subject of Windows Software vs. Linux Software. The facts speak for themselves, and are directly related to the overall number of Linux users. And yes you are correct; most OSNews readers are probably familiar with these facts.
Commercial application will come to the Linux world. Whatever you like it or not. I can only hope they will be better that free ones. Nero vs. K3B, Acrobat Reader vs. Evince/KPDF. Guess who would win.
Again, an example of unnecessary defensiveness. What is with the “whether you like it or not” ? The phrase has a very negative connotation when taken out of context, and is all that I need to prove your defensiveness. I do hope commercial software comes to the Linux world because I think it will help the community as a whole.
So, if you feel so good with Windows, why whine about Linux? Trolling you like, eh? As would Yoda say.
I don’t understand why you think I am “whining.” I hardly think that sticking up for someone that shares the opinion that Linux doesn’t have good commercial software is trolling. I do believe, however, that posting defensive replies mentioning how you don’t “force” people to use software and how I’m “whining” about everything is trolling.
Have you ever tried QCAD? I’m a mechanical engineer and that’s what i use.
In ubuntu:
System > Administration > Synaptic (Software manager)
– Search for QCad (be sure all repositories are enable)
– install it
– If it doesen’t apear on the menues just hit Ctrl+F2 and type qcad (oh! and press Enter).
pardon me, snobs. I loved the article.
“available patches. After all, Symantec has found that an unpatched Windows PC connected to the Internet will last only a few hours before being compromised.”
It only takes a few seconds, way less than a minute for a clean unpatched virgin W2K to get taken over before getting over to MS for patching. The patching has to be done before going out on the net.
Sadly, this is not hyperbole. I’ve only once connected an unpatched/unfirewalled Windows computer to a large network (at Georgia Tech). I don’t know how long it took for Blaster to 0wn my machine, but I do know that my internet access was disabled within two hours when the network admins detected that it was a mindless Blaster drone.
Sadly it is hyperbole. This will not happen to any machine installed with SP2. SP2 has been out a year now so update your installation CD. MS make it easy to do with slipstreaming and there’s a cool util
http://www.neowin.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=188337
so it’s pretty automatic.
Or you could install XP and then SP2.
Or you could install any previous version of XP and turn on the firewall.
Or you could get the admins at Georgia Tech to get their fingers out and fix their network.
I haven’t posted on this site since Eugenia left (for time prospective) because I see the same argument day after day, week after week.
The simple fact is, anyone could point out what Linux currently lacks. But I ask everyone, regardless of OS you use.. consider this: What do you actually use in your operating system to accomplish?
For me, Linux address many of my needs.. Browsing, Email and RSS feeds, Music player, Word processing, serving websites on and on… all of this is done for free and I easily install any application thats available free and quickly. I could care less if Linux ever makes it to widespread adoption. As long as it stays around for awhile. Linux will not kill Microsoft, or Apple but it will continue to put a dent into various markets.
Try this on for size: I booted into my windows xp system yesterday so I could get back to using my music applications that I have invested so much time and money into and Windows is currently not usable for me. I decided to do a virus update and system scan. Windows crashed while running AVG.
The main reason I use Linux is because of CONTROL and FREEDOM.
I hate that applications simply TAKE OVER windows. I am tired of removing stuff I didnt ask for. Real player pop ups, Norton Antivirus slows the WHOLE machine down….it takes forever on my recently purchased machine just to open the frikkins start menu.
I HATE DELAYS! i didnt pay for a fast machine for this crap to happen. I like the responsiveness in Linux, GNOME is very usable..
For OS based humour there’s only one true classic : “Every OS Sucks”-song by “Three Dead Trolls in a Baggie” (video http://www.deadtroll.com/index2.html?/video/ossuckscable.html )
Now there’s Linux or Li-nux
I don’t know how you say or how you install it or use it or play it
Or where you download it or what programs run
But Linux or Li-nuxs don’t look like much fun
However you say it it’s getting great press
Though how it survives is anyone’s guess
If you ask me it a great big mess
For elitists nerdy schmucks
“Its free” they say
If you can get it to run
The geeks say “Hey thats half the fun!”
Yeah well I got a girlfriend and things to get done
The Linux OS sucks
I’m sorry to say it but it does, it, it sucks
Every OS wastes your time form the desktop to the lap
Everything since AppleDOS is just a bunch of crap
From Microsoft to Macintosh to Lin-Li-Lin-Linux
Every computer crashes cause every OS sucks
Hilarious! Thank you.
Next time someone says that Linux people don’t spread FUD, I’m going to point them to this article. It’s a bit funny, but one point in particular is just wrong:
Compare that with Windows where, it’s possible — not likely, but possible — that you’ll need to use a command line now and again, or edit the Windows registry, where, as they like to tell you, one wrong move could destroy your system forever.
I’ve been using WinXP for years and I never had to edit a config file for Windows, and edited the registry maybe 5 times. Compared to Linux and BSD, where if you want to do anything, you almost certainly need to cofigure that first using vi or pico.
Sorry, but Linux actually loses badly on that point.
The other points are just silly: OO and Nvu are available for Windows, you can get excellent firewalls and antivirus software for free. On top of that, you can get PHP, Perl, LaTeX, etc etc for Windows too.
At least the article was quite funny, even if it was wrong in places. Just like a Microsoft ad really
Compared to Linux and BSD, where if you want to do anything, you almost certainly need to cofigure that first using vi or pico.
Uh, no. Installing a modern Linux distro does not require any editing of config files, and certainly does not require you to use vi or pico.
How long as it been since you actually tried Linux?
How long as it been since you actually tried Linux?
I installed Linux as my sole OS in Oct-Nov last year (so about a year now). Gave up and went back to Windows. I use Linux virtually daily though for my work.
I have PC BSD installed on my backup laptop. It works nicely… if I go on the command line.
When I’m asked about what I think of Linux, I sum it as: It’s great if you just want to intall it and use it. It’s bad if you try to change anything.
It’s a but blunt, but gets the point across.
I installed Linux as my sole OS in Oct-Nov last year (so about a year now).
Well, what distro did you use that required you to tweak config files with vi or pico in order to be able to use it? I’m curious, because using Mandrake three years ago didn’t require me to do so, nor did Ubuntu (well, Kubuntu, actually).
Perhaps you should have picked another distro than LFS… 🙂
That said, I find text files to be a lot more user-friendly than the registry…
Well, what distro did you use that required you to tweak config files with vi or pico in order to be able to use it? I’m curious, because using Mandrake three years ago didn’t require me to do so, nor did Ubuntu (well, Kubuntu, actually).
I used whatever Ubuntu was latest back then. Can’t remember the exact version. It had trouble with my hardware (primarily USB external disks!) and it took some config file beating, but it worked in the end.
I stuck with it for 2 months Windows free. My problem was Gnome. So I tried KDE, and that was slightly better. In the end, I thought that it wasn’t for me. I learned a lot, and I’m glad I did it. I will probably do it again sometime soon. I’m actually playing with PC BSD to figure that out too.
I have no problems editing stuff and figuring it out, but I just like to note that this isn’t the way forward for users. Us geeks may think it’s fun, but it’s not for everyone else.
That said, I find text files to be a lot more user-friendly than the registry…
Absolutely. I completely agree.
about 3 days ago. Still required the same old shit, have YOU actually tried using YOUR computer?
In fairness, I’ve been using Windows XP for years and I’ve been using Winows on the server for years, and I’ve have to go to the command line on a VERY regular basis and into the registry to get servers running properly (think large Citrix deployments – many tweaks are registry only).
linux right now have one big cancer that cancer is GNOME
we need to kill off that big piece of s***t
So I knew going in this was going to be a humor/irony piece, but still, I’m disappointed. There are legitamte reasons *not* to use Linux. I use and love it, but I certainly don’t recommend it to anyone, because no Linux distro will ever be a Windows replacement, nor should it be, and people need to realize this.
Here are some of my reasons not to use Linux:
1) It doesn’t always “just work”. When I open my PowerBook, I know that what I need to do will function perfectly. When I go to emerge a new program with some random-arse dependancy, I’m never so sure.
2) Games. Most of the games I play (q3, ut2k4, Puzzle Pirates, others) will run on Linux. However, some of my all-time favorites (Fallout:Tactis, Escape Velocity series) either don’t run at all or take forever to set up and run choppy or without sound or something.
3) Laptops/Proprietary hardware. I know this sounds lame, but it’s true. For example, I love Apple hardware. I have a PowerBook. I could run Yellow Dog Linux on it, but it’s a toss-up whether my AirPort, sound output, secondary video output and BlueTooth will work. If I buy some pimped out tablet computer, what are the chances things will work with it? Maybe it will work, but frankly, I wouldn’t want to spend the time and energy to figure it out, because I have better things to do.
As somewhat of a disclaimer, as I said, I use Linux. I also use OS X, Windows 98 SE and Athena (UNIX). Every OS has it’s strong points and weaknesses. I like to think of an OS like I do a programming language: you can probably use anything for any given job, but some are better than others. You want a gaming system? You’re probably best off with a version of Windows. Want a streamlined laptop with pimped out hardware? Get a Mac. Need server/workstation combo? Grab UNIX of BSD. Want a desktop or server that will run smoothly, kick general ass, or run on legacy hardware? Linux is the obvious choice. I don’t think any single OS can, or will ever, be the best choice for all of those uses.
Most people, if they’ve even heard of Linux, think it’s for computer-hippie anti-Microsoft people who live in their parent’s basement. No really. Let’s spend less time stroking our own egos and masturbating and more time being realistic about the advantages and disadvantages of our favorite system.
~nepharis
Most people, if they’ve even heard of Linux, think it’s for computer-hippie anti-Microsoft people who live in their parent’s basement. No really. Let’s spend less time stroking our own egos and masturbating and more time being realistic about the advantages and disadvantages of our favorite system.
not that I would know ……
but
if some guy does spend too much time in his parents basement, masturbating…. but using his linux machine to look at porn sites….
then he is safe in the knowledge that those porn sites won’t fuck up his pc like they do under Windows….
ALLEGEDLY… hehehehe
I don’t like it either. It is shallow, and didn’t make me smile a bit.
Almost every time I use KDE I get to see the crashmonitor when I really try to use it. I hate the default way gnome browses my filesystem (and for the rest I just can’t get to feel at home in gnome). The only windowmanager I like is windowmaker, but I feel just as productive using windows.
All in all the article had a slashdotesque quality and left me wondering if the author has really tried to use his PC. I could write a whole story why it would be far better to choose windows over linux with better arguments. Of course, linux has it’s advantages in some terrains, but I don’t see it become a dominant player on the desktop, because it just doesn’t get there. Ever.
1. installing most apps are way to difficult
2. installing and updating drivers are difficult
3.too much command line use
4.not as many games as windows
5.usb support sucks in linux
1. I’m sure typing
apt-get install _____
pacman -S _______
yum install _______
emerge _______
is far to difficult for you to install what you need.
2.
apt-get update, apt-get upgrade
pacman -Syu
emerge world(I think thats right)
yum update
Yeh upgrading drivers(installable through those systems, or in the kernel) are just like the rest of the system
3. Try SuSE, they have nearly perfected no command-line in desktop enviroments. Most of those apps have graphical install/upgrade tools too. Synaptic, Jacman/gtkpacman, yum extender.
4. for cool little games, linux has plenty, for full games, most OpenGL games work native or through wine, otherwise, blame the game developers for using Mircosoft’s proprietary DirectX.(oh and if u want ur games that much, buy cedega)
5. What?? I might have heard this before, but i’ve never actually had problems, I use an ipod, usb headphones, and usb thumb drives all the time.
LOL – he did mention Gaim’s security in comparison to windows messenger.
Just have a look at all known Gaim vulnerabilities. It’ really hard to find a piece of software which is even more insecure than Gaim. I’m not so sure if windows messenger has an even worse security track, but nice try
I agree. Gaim is much worse when it comes to security than windows messenger.
The part about Linux “maybe someday hypothetically-who-knows” requiring you to edit one config file is really wishfull thinking.
There are two cases with linux:
a) you install the distro and use it with what it has. You can use openoffice, maybe even print with some luck and perseverance. If you are that kind of user — eg. you write letters in openoffice and you don’t want anything else — you can be pretty happy with most distros.
b) you realize for some reason you graphics aren’t like you want them.. or you wish to install a wacom tablet ?
Then have FUN with XF86Config. Or maybe it will be about sound or some other half-supported driver. You’ll have to patch your kernel but then you’ll have to maintain it yourself (cannot update the kernel with the distribution anymore). Good news! You wanted a better setup and now you’re a kernel hacker! Full time…
Whatever this guy can say… I don’t think my grandmother would agree. Oh well, not even if she had been alive today.
I can program in C, C++, Java, Objective-C and then even some bash… I have administered remote linux machines for years but everytime I use linux for a while as my desktop I endup having to learn about the syntax of some configuration file (preferably every program has to use a different syntax in Linux, it’s all about the goodness of freedom).
So yes, windows is pretty much SIMPLER. Dead simpler. It may be the target of every virus around. But with 90+% of the market this is to be expected. The good thing with linux is that most likely you won’t find the package for the version you want for your distribution or your virus just won’t compile because of some dependency in the source tree.
Not that I like windows either. I got myself a mac and I am glad I can use a unix without having to get a linux-certificatification to hook on a second screen and see it work.
OpenSource OS are great. In theory. I am confident that OpenBeos will gain more market acceptance than linux ever will. Because even if it takes 5 more years to get Haiku ready, when it’s ready people will still have to patch their kernel in Linux or fiddle wiht XF86Config.
You’ll have to patch your kernel but then you’ll have to maintain it yourself (cannot update the kernel with the distribution anymore)
Actually, with Conary (the system used by rpath and foresight linux) it’s possible to update packages you’ve patched. Granted that Conary hadn’t reached 1.0 yet, and I have actually been able to use it…
Even so, using modules there is no need to patch kernels for driver support. Either your hardware is supported or it isn’t. If you really need unsupported hardware you probably know what you are doing anyway.
I have administered remote linux machines for years but everytime I use linux for a while as my desktop I endup having to learn about the syntax of some configuration file (preferably every program has to use a different syntax in Linux, it’s all about the goodness of freedom).
While I agree with you that some programs could do with some usabillity love in the configuration department I don’t think text configs are bad per se. In my experience I have to do a similar amount of manual reading and learning to use GUI configuration tools.
Windows: I go to a website, download setup.exe and hey, it runs. Isn’t that great.
Mac OSX: I go to a website, download program.dmg and hey, it runs. Isn’t that great.
Linux: I go to a website, can choose between rpm for mandrake, suse, or a deb which depends on another library or a tarball. Ofcourse i can always use apt-get or any other fancy tool but ofcourse that application that i want to have is just not in the tree. Eventually you always end up with:
1. Download the tar.gz file,
2. Unzip and untar it,
3. Run configure,
Try not to get an error, relax you will get an error cause you are always missing something.
4. Issue a make to compile
Ohh dear, seems like something went wrong here:
error on line 86: Not found error.
5. Install the application by logging in as root and doing a make install in the application directory.
Installing software on a *nix shouldn’t be hard, take osx as an example and see how easy they made it. Regular users don’t want to compile things, they just want to download, install and run a program. Just make a standard. That’s all, a standard.
Ofcourse i can always use apt-get or any other fancy tool but ofcourse that application that i want to have is just not in the tree.
With 15,000 packages in the Debian repositories, which application are you missing? Please give us some examples of currently maintained apps that are not in the Debian repositories…
Of course, not all apps are there. In two years of using Debian, this has happened to me…once. And it was a very obscure app. You’re deliberately spreading FUD by suggesting that this “always” happens, as shown below.
Eventually you always end up with:
1. Download the tar.gz file,
2. Unzip and untar it,
3. Run configure,
Try not to get an error, relax you will get an error cause you are always missing something.
For your information, “always” means “all the time”. Replace “always” in your post with “very rarely, if at all” and it’ll become accurate. Otherwise, it’s just plain old FUD.
Regular users don’t want to compile things, they just want to download, install and run a program.
And that’s what you can do in Linux, using synatpics/rpmdrake/etc. In fact, it’s both easier and faster than with Windows, especially if you want to install/upgrade many programs at once. My time is precious: when I’ve got a dozan app to install/upgrade, I don’t want to start fishing them out of the Internet, then going through a tedious installation process for each. I just put a checkmark next to each program, click “Install”, confirm…and that’s it!
100% agree!
just stupid. btw, didn’t os x recently release data that linux boxes get hacked faster than windows boxes?
just stupid. btw, didn’t os x recently release data that linux boxes get hacked faster than windows boxes?
Uh, no.
I don’t think “OS X” ever released anything.
but it isn’t as useful to me as XP.
i still need the command line occasionally.
i cannot play >some< of my favourite games. will Morrowind Oblivion work? or Armed Assault? and no, fighting my way thru cerdega is not a comparable solution to native windows support.
http://darnitwebdev.blogspot.com/2005/08/this-is-in-response-to-sar…
Honestly, he really DOESNT have a clue does he!
A blatant piece of trolling by a Linux user to bitter to even admit they have competition or even flaws in their own product. Amusingly enough, the problems they attempt to state satirically are indeed real problems with all but the most castrated Linux distributions.
I’ll continue installing from my SP2-streamlined Windows XP setup disc, thanks. None of these “problems” are a concern whatsoever.
Excellent article. Once again, Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols is straight to the point.
A lot of the machines out there running Linux are servers. It is more likely that servers will get hacked than plain end-user machines (more things to attack). A plain end-user machine is certainly safer with Linux I believe. A windows user will face dozen of trojans or virus that a linux user won’t. But when it comes to hacking servers, I am not sure linux servers are any safer than windows servers. The only difference is that you can be a _complete_ newbie and dare to setup a windows server.
A default user machine won’t have much (if any) services listening.. no apache or ftp server (some distros used to have them).
Now, the question is how many windows servers vs how many linux servers got hacked… dunno.
“Reason number three: Linux doesn’t have enough applications”
I burst out laughing on that one, if anything Linux has too MANY applications.
1) First, it says that you MAY have to edit config files under linux or use the command line…what they don’t tell ya is the vast majority of software available for linux is distributed in the form of source code. WHICH means editing config files, make files, compiling, etc. NOT something a typical user wants to deal with.
2) it suggests linux is easy to set up…yet on this brand spanking new athlon 64 dual core system i have, ubuntu 5.x won’t boot into setup, suse won’t boot into setup, windows however DOES boot into setup. I can install windows fine.
3) Linux does NOT have enough applications. Are you a gamer? Forget about playing Dungeon Siege 2. Forget about playing Battlefield 2, forget about playing almost any new game.
4) Linux is about as secure as windows is. Windows is just focused on more. When people start focusing on linux, things will be a helluva lot worse. Rootkits can hide more easily under linux than windows simply because there are more avenues of attack. (Attacker can install a custom, modified kernel for instance).
5) Linux IS more expensive, simply because there are more variations to support, different guis, etc.
,,vast majority of software available for linux is distributed in the form of source code.”
It’s distributed as binary packages OR source packages that will autmagiclly compile. Small amount of software is not yet packaged. You can request for a package in most of distributions.
,,It suggests linux is easy to set up…yet on this brand spanking new athlon 64 dual core system i have, ubuntu 5.x won’t boot into setup, suse won’t boot into setup, windows however DOES boot into setup. I can install windows fine.”
You can install it, but can you use it? From what I’ve heard, the Windows on 64 is lacking in terms of drivers and support. I don’t have AMD64, so I can not comment on your experience with it. But I bet I could find more than 10 people with AMD64/Ubuntu just by typing /join #ubuntu in Kopete.
,,Linux does NOT have enough applications. Are you a gamer? Forget about playing Dungeon Siege 2. Forget about playing Battlefield 2, forget about playing almost any new game.”
I’m not a gamer, so this point dose not apply. 🙂
,,Windows is just focused on more.”
According to my logs, there’s a lot of script attacks against OpenSSH/Apache on my machine. It’s not about focus, it’s about people who are in charge of machine. And yes, people who use Linux tend to be more computer literate.
,,Linux is about as secure as windows is.”
It is? Put your XP with no firewall, and I’ll put any of my servers/desktop computers.
,,Rootkits can hide more easily under linux than windows simply because there are more avenues of attack. (Attacker can install a custom, modified kernel for instance). ”
You say one can not modify Windows parts? Why? I know what’s running on my system. I can see what ports are open and where are my packets going. I would notice soething strange sooner or later. Yet, I manage to find lusers with 5 backdoors who has no clue that thier machines is a Zombi used by script kiddies.
,, Linux IS more expensive, simply because there are more variations to support, different guis, etc.”
No, if you stick to one thing. Same goes for office that has Windows 95, 98, 2k and XP.
1) and why should i have to bother with source at all? Why should ANYONE have to bother with source.
2) Driver support for Windows x64 is pretty damn good, The ONLY area i’ve had problems in is printing, and thats because the printer i used is designed for use with a mac. I’m a big gamer, i also do a lot of programming. I’ve never had problems with software incompatibilities.
Oh and for the record, this machine has NEVER been behind a firewall, it’s NEVER had a virus scanner on it (though before i open unsafe binaries, i do scan them via an online scanner, i also watch for suspicious behavior.)
I’ve never had a virus, or trojan, etc. and above: I’m saying that rootkits aren’t nearly as effective on windows as they are on linux.
I am NOT a fan of windows, i’m saying that linux has a long way to go before it’s ready for the desktop.
As far as choice…i’m referring to the fact that EVERY distro has it’s own way of doing things. It makes support costs a nightmare (picture dell trying to support an OS with 100+ different windowing environments, etc. You actually have to hire people that KNOW what they are supporting, rather than people that read from a script. Knowledge costs money.)
1) and why should i have to bother with source at all? Why should ANYONE have to bother with source.
I can understand if you’re not interested with the source, but why do you seek to ridicule those who are?
I’m not a programmer, but I appreciate the wide, international network of programmers that has been brought together through open source. The fact that Linux exists, that projects such as X and KDE exist and that we can now argue if it is better or not than Windows is living proof that the open source model works.
You seem to have a pretty narrow vision of things.
I’ve never had a virus, or trojan, etc. and above
Well, good for you. Last year, financial losses due to malware were estimated at between 160 and 200 billion dollars, and it was virtually all due to Windows vulnerabilities.
Denying that the problem exists won’t make it go away.
I am NOT a fan of windows, i’m saying that linux has a long way to go before it’s ready for the desktop.
Well, I do think that you are in fact a fan of Windows, for otherwise you wouldn’t have any reasons to anonymously spread this FUD. And I’ll argue that Linux is in fact ready for a very large number of desktops – especially if we level the playing field by having pre-installed and configured on computers, just like when you buy most Windows PC.
As far as choice…i’m referring to the fact that EVERY distro has it’s own way of doing things. It makes support costs a nightmare (picture dell trying to support an OS with 100+ different windowing environments, etc. You actually have to hire people that KNOW what they are supporting, rather than people that read from a script. Knowledge costs money.)
Funny, most Windows support techs I’ve talked too did seem to read from a script. But that’s besides the point.
The fact is that there are few major distros, and that most of them are very similar in how they’re configured. I found going from Mandrake to Ubuntu to be quite easy. In any case, you’d expect Dell to only support the Linux distros they would themselves sell pre-installed with their PCs. That only makes sense.
Oh, and there aren’t “100+” Windowing environments – such exaggeration is usually a sign that the debater doesn’t have enough confidence in his argument to present real facts. The are two main desktop environments, and about half-a dozen other ones that are viable. Again, a company like Dell would only offer support for the DE/WM that would come pre-installed on their Linux PCs (if they sold any).
Enough with the FUD already.
“I am NOT a fan of windows, i’m saying that linux has a long way to go before it’s ready for the desktop.
Well, I do think that you are in fact a fan of Windows, for otherwise you wouldn’t have any reasons to anonymously spread this FUD. And I’ll argue that Linux is in fact ready for a very large number of desktops – especially if we level the playing field by having pre-installed and configured on computers, just like when you buy most Windows PC.”
Some people are open minded you know, they just stay neutral and think that “well, yea.. I don’t like windows that much but I’ll give them credits”.
Some people don’t want to register in this site so what ? It’s a bit of hastle. Call them lazy, call them whatever you want, but people will view Linux fan as trolls, flamers and cocky. If you did that, you are one of the reason why people might dislike to move to Linux (ooohh Linux advocat is cocky) , you know.. like BOFH.
You can argue whatever you want about Linux is ready for the whole desktop thingie. Fine.
I think Linux is almost there, long or short. But until someone, or a company can come with a great marketing strategy… we just have to wait longer.
You can boast how powerful Linux is, but again the most powerful OS can’t win the market if the supporters are narrow minded and only to flame others.
Is it a long shot ? could be.. just.. about um.. 75% more to win the market no ? or maybe um.. 65% more ?
I have SUSE Linux 9.3 professional installed right now and it’s sluggish compare to my XP. Please don’t flame me or think that I’m an MS Fans.. I’m talking about my personal experience. So I get a bit ticked off by SUSE and moved back to XP. By the way, I’m running Sempron 2500 and 768 DDRAM.
I don’t really like GNOME UI because of the top and bottom bar.. but I like KDE. Some of the applications I use required GTK1.2, GTK2.4/5 (I wonder why they can just use the latest version and skip the older one)
I don’t like KDE once in a while, because it is too shinny, glossy (and maybe sometime slower than GNOME –C++ vs C perhaps ?–).
When I use win2k3, I feel right where I want it to be. Clean, not too glosy, one bar at the bottom, the usual Start button on the left corner (KDE has it too I give you that, Gnome has 2 or maybe 3 up there). I’m not an UI guru, but I use whatever I feel comfortable with.
I usually use IceWM a year ago in my laptop running FreeBSD, but got tired of manual menu editing.
But I want something like Visual Studio (admittedly I never use VS, I usually use Dev-C++). But if I installed GNOME, I need to install a big chunk of KDE libraries and software as well just to get KDevelop
to run.
Several GTK apps required gnome-mimedata,gnomevfs and some other gnome libraries, I don’t like that.
I want to stick with a technology that can get me a job, and the big chance right now is .NET (I just got in to co-op and the coordinator told me to learn .NET, XML, and SQL due to market request). I view C# has a good future (complete with MSFT .NET framework) because one can learn C# to develop web apps, client side apps, touching a bit of windows system call. I think C# is nicely integrated with MSFT products, hence I don’t have to learn other languages (well maybe XAML).
I DO want to see Linux to come up with a technology like .NET , you know, unified technology with only _ONE_ big language to learn (yes I know .NET supports many language.. but C# is above them all)
In XWindows world, either one code using the old X libraries or choose between GTK and Qt. It would be nice if *Nix relies only on one framework.
These are facts and honest reasons why I keep coming back to Windows. Please do not flame me, I’m giving OSS and Linux several _INPUTS_ and you should do something about it other than defending how great Linux and OSS are. Listen to why we keep coming back to Windows and create a solution to it.
Let me give you more clues; telling us that there exist Synaptic, Repositories, apt-get, other software that mimics Windows, Open Standard are not enough. Telling us that malware, viruses and trojans are also not enough, because people like me still don’t feel comfortable and convinced to leave Windows forever (no hard feeling).
Please don’t flame my post, I got bored reading the same reasons over and over again about worms, viruses, trojans, and this-and-that package managers over and over again.
To convince people to move from windows to linux forever you need more than the current software exist in Linux and security.
Have you tried Xandros? If you haven’t I advice you to do.
Remember SUSE 9.3 Pro is not a good linux OS It’s so buggy and not fully supported by the company that sponsers it Novell; they only support and heavily test their corporate linux versions like NLD9 (Novell linux Desktop Version 9).
In contrary Xandros is lean and mean OS and its packages are more easily available online, the support is super excellent, and everything about it is right; all you have to do is to buy it for 130$ and why not It’s the price you might pay for a technician to fix you infected Windows Box.
I tried Xandros long time ago, like 2 years ago (yes, it was not that good back then other than the cool Crossover Office), but I might give a try for it later if I can get it for free by borrowing or something, though I only want to try it :-).
I tried Fedora Core 4 because I’m a Java developer and I think Eclipse in Fedora Core 4 is good enough.
But when I switched to KDE in FC4, you know how big the initial bottom bar for KDE 3.4 right ? I tried to make it smaller from the preference. The bottom bar covered the Preference “OK” button. Tried to lower the bottom bar using windows-style, didn’t work. Tried to press ENTER, didn’t change to new size of bottom bar I wanted. Gave up finally hehehe
By the way, I’m using win2k3 w/o any virus/malware/trojan on it. The key is not to open XXX websites or try to search for some crack/keygen/pirated software, you know, the warez websites. (Although the chances to get viruses are still there but at least until now I don’t find any problem though).
Plus, I know how to remove viruses/worms/spyware via Symantec website that gives you a thorough guide to fix the registry.
what they don’t tell ya is the vast majority of software available for linux is distributed in the form of source code. WHICH means editing config files, make files, compiling, etc. NOT something a typical user wants to deal with.
Ahem. That’s source code AND binaries. 15,000+ binary packages in the Debian repositories. And you don’t have to edit a config file when compiling.
Stop spreading FUD.
it suggests linux is easy to set up…yet on this brand spanking new athlon 64 dual core system i have, ubuntu 5.x won’t boot into setup, suse won’t boot into setup, windows however DOES boot into setup. I can install windows fine.
Linux supports Athlon 64 much better than Windows does. If none of these distros installed, then it’s almost certainly a problem with your hardware. Or you’re lying. I’m inclined to believe the latter.
Stop spreading FUD.
Are you a gamer? Forget about playing Dungeon Siege 2. Forget about playing Battlefield 2, forget about playing almost any new game.
I’m a gamer, unfortunately the Windows platform pales in comparison to the quantity of titles available for game consoles. If you want to play games, get a PS2/Xbox/GameCube.
Stop spreading FUD.
Linux is about as secure as windows is. Windows is just focused on more. When people start focusing on linux, things will be a helluva lot worse. Rootkits can hide more easily under linux than windows simply because there are more avenues of attack.
Windows: 93% market share, 100,000 viruses. Ratio of viruses to market share point: 1075 to 1
Linux: 2% market share, less than 50 viruses. Ratio of viruses to market share point: 25 to 1.
In other words, Windows has proportionately 40 times more viruses than Linux – that’s with market share taken into account. Hmmm…maybe it’s because you can make a file executable in Windows simply by giving it the right extension…
Tell you what: when Linux has a similar market share to Windows, then we’ll be able to verify if your argument is valid or not. Until then, please…
Stop spreading FUD.
Linux IS more expensive, simply because there are more variations to support, different guis, etc.
Expensive for whom? Developers? Nah, they just leave the distro makers package the program for them, and they’ll only choose a GUI anyway. Users? Nah, it’s not more expensive for them, they got it all for free. Companies? Nah, they just pay for the distro they’re using, who cares if there are minor variations between distros.
Oh, I see, you weren’t actually making an argument, but rather giving an abusive monopoly free marketing. In that case, perhaps you should start considering to…
Stop spreading FUD!
Ziff Davis Internet Senior Editor Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols
Shame it’s at the end of the article, or I would have stopped reading right there. This guy is a known linux troll. Not too long ago he posted a trollish article about Vista with blatantly false information in it. He never has anything positive to say about Microsoft and always pushes Linux and open source.
In my eyes, and hopefully in anyone elses eyes, he has no credibility whatsoever.
In my eyes, and hopefully in anyone elses eyes, he has no credibility whatsoever.
I get the feeling that the Ziff Davis Windows, Mac, and Linux trolls all stand around at lunch and laugh about how well they have pulled our chains. (Wouldn’t be to surprised that they don’t even use what they write about.)
Ziff Davis is a trash source. Don’t read anything from them.
Is this one reason to stop reading tech news sites all together? Sorry, but I like Linux and all — hell, that is my focus of research in school right now — but this sort of material just confirms that some people are far too abrasive, and this is exactly why the discussions online between differing opinions regarding software technology is at such a low level. It is not satirical to dress up hate journalism as satire; the article is still hate journalism, and it is honestly a sad piece to read.
i will tell you a few reasons why *some* people wouldnt linux:
1- first of all, the installation process confuse all the n00bs. there should be an installation mode for n00bs. i mean c’mon, you’re asking a n00b if (s)he wants to install GRUB in MBR? my mom doesn’t fucking know what’s a stupid bootloader so don’t even ask her whats the MBR. and i’m happy that my mom doesnt know about it …it would be scary otherwise. also, even nice&easy distros like suse ask way to much during the installation process (except if you want to stick with a box that doesn’t know you have a printer, sound card, ect…). Windows do it all for you, n00bs and people with no time left to waste.
2- basic stuff. linux still has annoying issues (sometimes related to patents) but anyway my mom still doesnt want to know about that. i installed her suse 9.3 recently and she told me: why the “characters” (she didnt even say “fonts”) are so blurry, how can fix that? well i told her: just recompile freetype2, oh that doesnt work with suse sorry, just get the src rpm package first then recompile yeah, dont forget to edit some .h file and it will be fixed. she said: fuck you. (i think my smart ass answer insulted my mom). and there’re so much more than that. many issues with hardware like webcams, ect. try to setup some all-in-one printer/scanner/ect for fun. my mom hp thingy will only work as printer or as scanner but never both at the same time. luckily, i at least found an answer to that. oh i forgot …and a good system my mom would stick with shitty video performance just because some stallman lovers refuse to include nvidia drivers in their distros. Microsoft would not do that to my mom.
3- applications. well while linux has some awesome piece of software for advanced users like us, h@ck3rs (notice the irony), it fails to have good apps for basic n00b stuff. well who would trade mIRC for some shit like xchat, konversation. only people that would use irssi/epic/ircii/bitchx i suppose. but damn im not gonna ask my gf to move away from mirc. also, theres barely no docs for OO.org. HOW DO YOU WANT MY MOM TO LEARN IT??? if she goes to the library, will she find a book about that? in local lib? omg, you want my mom to read howtos? haha.
4- more and more. well i also installed linux to more people than my mom. and almost everytime (my mistake) i installed em a different distro just for the fun of it. well, one day some guy called me and told me he wasnt able to start a webcam connection with his friends. first, hes still lucky that i made his webcam working after 5hours of fucking around. but, how am i supposed to help him with this problem? i knew the problem, it was simply the firewall. but damn i dont have all the distros installed here just to tell him where he can turn it off (just think of a n00b trying to turn off firewall in suse heh). and asking him to do it command line? omg. you’re asking me too much. that day i told myself that i will use linux of my boxes only, not on other people boxes anymore. Microsoft is the right choice for them.
so please c’mon, stop adversising linux, you’re ruining it. linux is only for advanced users, just like 2% of all comp users. dont be ignorant and say otherwise.
the day my mom will be able to install her in a few clicks, with all the hardware working, with readable fonts, with simple full featured applications that reach the windows ease of use. maybe i will consider linux for her again. but that will never happen!
When in the world does the average Windows user have to use the command line or edit the registry? Linux dosen’t need any patches or updates after an install? Even as a satrical article this is just poor…
Just wondering… Why would anyone pay 3000+ $ for a piece of software when the open source version does an equally god job, unless you have some twisted requirements or delirium. (Blender vs 3dmax)
Just wondering… Why would anyone pay 3000+ $ for a piece of software when the open source version does an equally god job, unless you have some twisted requirements or delirium. (Blender vs 3dmax)
so, that means not using hair on any character, not animating this same hair… let’s not forget expressions instead of IK, let’s not forget not having to fiddle with config files to manage a procedural (with the client breathing down your neck, for that twenty thousand dollars account)… yeah, i can’t imagine why people would pay for that.
professional proprietary software most of the times is not that better on “candy” features, but have workflow improvements that meet your deadline requirements…
and anyway, i like blender… i just think it’s in a different league. if it gets better, maybe proprietary software gets very cheap… let’s hope!
And you wonder why you are having hard time converting Windows users to your religion? What a load of BS.
Does Steve have a jealous problem with Windows. It’s seems every article he writes about is how much Linux is so much better than Windows. Steve, Microsoft isn’t going anywhere so get over it. I like where he says: “And, Microsoft also has Microsoft Office, which — oh wait, you don’t get that with the operating system, do you? You also don’t get a Web page editor either, do you?” If Microsoft did include Office with Windows he would be the first one to complain about MS is bundling other software like Windows Media Player and IE to crush other competers.So it’s damn if MS does and damn if they don’t.
Dude.. The *Good* tools are expensive. MS Office even if bundled with MS Windows would make the price of it way too expensive. For us average wage earners.
Just because there is free-ware for windows doesn’t make it good or the same goes to linux. I just don’t see a problem about using either? What I hate is that if a website uses activeX or aspx when they don’t need to.
Microsoft is scared of loosing market share, so they have to spam linux, which they have a right to because they do need to turn a profit.
Yet another stupid linux preteen, clueless advocate. Sad sad sad…
1. Sound. There’s no standard way to play two sounds at once. Some things work with ESD, some work with ALSA/dmix, other lucky people have multichannel soundcards…
2. Configuration files- too many need to be edited by hand. Yes, I know it’s often that the Windows programs just assume defaults. But I’ve grown tired of trying to hunt down /etc/profile or /etc/X11/Sessions/xdm/xdmrc or whatever it is, or trying to find obscure configurations to use… It’s why I gave up on Gentoo.
3. No killer apps. I’ve heard it said that people switched to Windows from, like the Amiga and Atari ST because of Doom. Regardless of whether that’s true or not, there’s no Doom for Linux; every possible killer app I can think of is also available on Windows- Firefox, OpenOffice, The Gimp, Apache, Gaim, mplayer, Bittorrent, vorbis… the only one I can think of is xscreensaver, and that’s not being ported because the author is a Linux fanatic that believes no software should be ported to Windows.
On the other hand, everything settles for “Windows-like”. Openoffice is Windows-like. Beep Media Player and XMMS are Winamp clones. Other than the new transparency functions in X.org, I don’t see much that Windows doesn’t have. Right now, KDE and Gnome look like Windows, which leaves XFCE and ROX and, I guess, all the Fluxbox/IceWM people to do something different. Mac OS X seems to have proved that you don’t have to make it look like Windows to make it useable. If anything, I’m hoping E17 will be great, since it looks like a step in the right direction concerning a unique look for Linux.
In a nutshell- if you’re trying to be “just like Windows”, why shouldn’t someone just use Windows?
4. The Install. Windows asks practically no questions, yes, because they want you to basically use the whole disk without partitioning, and assumes a base install. Still, there has to be something better than frightening the user with questions about their keyboard and which partition to go where, especially since between Ubuntu and Knoppix I’ve seen systems detect all of those things. Suggestion: Default install settings with absolute minimum questions; option for power users like me to tweak everything.
5. No support for more esoteric hardware. Linux seems to support common hardware well; but not ACPI hardware and not wifi and not keyboard FN+(something) combos. This isn’t necessarily Linux’s fault but it IS a problem.
linux is more harder to use than windows, is in the same fat as windows, is less useable than windows.
weakness is more easy to learn than virtue.
I wish I could remember the details, but I read an article a while back about people trying to get a Windows refund for PCs that came bundled with a copy of Windows the user didn’t want to use. It turned out that (a) large-volume OEM copies of Windows like the ones that come with Dell and HP only cost a few dollars, and (b) when you factor in certain things like testing, the cost of a Linux box from said companies actually costs MORE because of the alteration in the production line.
It’s not Windows that’s expensive. Microsoft practically gives it away. What’s expensive is the reasons people buy Windows in the first place, like MS Office, which doesn’t get volume discounts nearly as deeply. Sure, MS may make some money from Windows, particularly in the upgrades, retail, and server channels, but their REAL cash-cow is Office. Windows gives Microsoft not money so much as CONTROL, over your computer and their cashflow.
From the article …
It’s true. After all, with modern Linuxes like Xandros Desktop or SimplyMEPIS, you need to put in a CD or DVD, press the enter button, give your computer a name, and enter a password for the administrator account.
Gosh, that’s hard.
So when some newbie a week from now shows up with a Linux review and he’s bitching because he can’t get it to do what he wants, I don’t want to hear any of this “Did you really think it was going to be painless?” shit.
yo! moms and pops. just go to the store, buy your PC with winXP. On the way out grab a linux mag with linux install disk. after getting your XP installed and upgraded, shut the computer down and slip in the linux CD and install that and upgrade it too. Have fun. go to linux to surf the shadowy corners of the internet. this dual between linux and windows for supremacy reminds me of kids argueing about what is better, chevy or ford. Plain silliness at this point in history.
the business about free software is another arguement?
I will say that with synaptic I can upgrade all my apps at once and this can not be done with windows.update. In fact most of my friends forget that there is realplayer updates, office updates, quicktime updates, directX updates, windowsmediaplayer updates, msnmessenger updates, virus and spyware updates, etc.
Very many updates that need serious attention are not being addressed by moms and pops as they sit feeling secure after a windows.update.
I can think of more pros and cons.
My main point is that they all have good and bad points and that we are currently in a situation where moms/pops can have both linux and windows on our PC’s, not to forget pcbsd or beos
“I will say that with synaptic I can upgrade all my apps at once and this can not be done with windows.update.”
That’s a good point. Someone above posted about Linux having no killer apps. Well I’d say the ability to update every app on the system with one command is a killer feature. I’m so used to this that when I run Windows I either forget or can’t be bothered to update one program at a time.
For a while it didn’t even occur to me to update Firefox in Windows (despite the vulnerabilities) because I’m so used to this being taken care of for me.
“I will say that with synaptic I can upgrade all my apps at once and this can not be done with windows.update. In fact most of my friends forget that there is realplayer updates, office updates, quicktime updates, directX updates, windowsmediaplayer updates, msnmessenger updates, virus and spyware updates, etc. “
Windows Update does do directX updates, windowsmediaplayer updates, msnmessenger updates,.. Microsoft Update would would get Office too. Quicktime, realplayer and that other *crap* does too much already to tell you it needs updated itself.
Obviously APT, Yum, Emerge, Ports… etc are better still though.
I think this is a sarcastic article, aimed to laugh at those anti Linux and pro windows users
Linux will never move ahead in the O/S market because of many reasons outlined. 1) There is no corporate accountability with Linux. Companies want a company that traded on the markets, not traded between a bunch of nerds (no offense). 2) It is bloated. Granted there are some very nice distro’s, Suse for example is a bloated pig that is riddled with bugs. 3) Software support. Microsoft has the software market… period. 4) There are too many projects and it is becoming very disorganized. 5) Anyone that wants an open source O/S would choose FreeBSD in heartbeat over Linux. 6) KDE and Gnome suck… people want clean and easy. Linux has neither.
1) There is no corporate accountability with Linux
Have you read the Windows EULA?! You really should before you go making statements like that! There’s nothing in the way of corporate accountability there either, unless, of course, you are planning on starting a very expensive few years in court.
Excerpt taken from Clause 13 of the Windows XP EULA
“…IN NO EVENT SHALL MICROSOFT OR ITS SUPPLIERS BE LIABLE FOR ANY SPECIAL, INCIDENTAL, PUNITIVE, INDIRECT, OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES WHATSOEVER (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS OR CONFIDENTIAL OR OTHER INFORMATION, FOR BUSINESS INTERRUPTION, FOR PERSONAL INJURY, FOR LOSS OF PRIVACY…”
There’s a lot more in that EULA that is effectively cover-your-arse tactics.
There really are a lot of reasons to prefer Windows over Linux, and the Linux community needs to be honest about this. If a Linux user really does make an effort to find out where Windows is preferred over Linux, and posts that to a Linux-centric site, people will take notice and work to make Linux better. That’s good.
Articles like that tongue-in-cheek, sarcastic piece of crap help nobody.
It seems my sarcasm detector is broken…
a very stupid piece of bullshit.
Reason number six: Linux fanboys are a bunch of pedantic morons.
Boy those geek fellows are oh so funny. Watch out Leno, this guy’s gunning for your job.
Seriously, articles like this just plain suck. They’re not even funny in a geek way, let alone regular funny.
Lets stick to real news and leave this crap where it belongs, in the crapper (oh, I made a funny, watch out I feel a article coming on).
Most people nowadays who justify spending money on computers do it for the purpose of Networking (Internet Browsing,e-mailing, Chatting, Forums, Video conferencing, Torrenting, Sharing resources,…etc) and I see that Linux Shines in this area more than windows by light years. I really don’t know what is the problem of not running linux on all home PCs!
If you will tell me that home people need to use their PCs for multimedia then again i will tell you that a company configured linux will do the job just great. Besides computer prices do not justify using them for multimedia, eg I can buy a really nice Home entertainment Center for 2000 $, which I can still buy a nice Windows XP Multimedia Center Edition Enabled PC, now any really wise man or women in the universe will choose the Home Entertainment Center over the PC which doesn’t even have a nice Monitor attached to it.
linux is just weak when it comes to Gaming and this is not linux problem alone but it’s the problem of all OSs in the world even Apple. Can you tell me how can I play half life 2, FarCry, Starwars Battlefront on another platforms with decent frames/Second.
So I personally end up at this simple equation “Windows=Gaming Linux=Everything Else”and I think it is correct unless someone else convence me with its invalidity.
you CAN get free versions of the AV, antispyware tools and firewall for Windows.
Well, if you’re a HOME USER, that is.
If you’re a corporate user, shell those big bucks out for the client AND the server versions of all three!
ANNUALLY!
So very appropriate for a community of IP leeches.
– No coherent API like win32. The only stable point is the libc.
– No stable API. What is the name of this function in this version of the library ?
– Many different widget set (GTK, QT, FOX, FLTK, Motif, Athena, etc) with totally different look&feel. There are many different library with same functionality.
– Not enought application, and this applications are uses different widget set/desktop environment. The best text editor, C++ development environment, UML editor is based on KDE, the best dictionary, C# development environment, image manipulation tool, etc. is based on GTK and there are applications with only Motif or awt wiget set.
And there is no useable vector drawing application (like CorelDraw, Illustrator, etc), flash editor, professional development environment (except for java) etc.
– There are many different distributions. If your user is use SuSE it can’t do anything with Debian, because all system admin tool is different.
Windows/Linux is not black/white or white/black.
I’m not an MS fan. Linux is missing coherence. Well, I know …community, choices. Why to have 1000 distros, if practicaly all are not working witn an usb modem?
This is one of the best piece of humor I ever read about Linux. BTW I’m using FC3, and I’m happy.
MS should care….
1: Joint the programming effort of a favourite project.
2: Help write documentation of a favourite project.
4: Write translations into your native language.
And who will pay for this work ? Yes, the project will better, but IMHO if anybody buy a commercial application instead of writing code, help, etc will cheaper (and the quality of the product will better then this OSS project). The most software (with existing OSS alternative) far cheaper then 200 working hours of only one programmer.
And the commercial software will helps only my company (and who pay for it), but with supporting OSS project I support all concurrent companies.
and your point is ?
selfish attiudes like yours need to be put down at birth
There are only two attitudes in business: the selfish and the failed.
There are only two attitudes in business: the selfish and the failed.
not always.
is microsoft a failed business ?
no
and they are not always 100% selfish
is the BBC a failed business ?
no
and they are probably one of the biggest supporters of open source in the world.
have a look at http://www.bbc.co.uk and look up the creative commons license.
I have a question for you, and I want you to be totally honest. This is a question that US citizens get wrong more times than any other national.
If you were inside a burning building with your boss and a new born baby, and could only save one, which one would it be ?
Is microsoft a failed business ?
no
and they are not always 100% selfish
All companies (microsoft, IBM, Redhat, SuSE, etc) always selfish. The goodwill, the face of the company is the part of the business.
If you were inside a burning building with your boss and a new born baby, and could only save one, which one would it be ?
I don’t have any boss, I works in my own (one-person) company. But it is depend on the situation: I like or I hate my boss, etc. But IMHO the race in the business and the saving of lifes two different question, except if you a fireman 🙂
… all those managers and studied economists won’t read it. They all go to get a free lunch from Microsoft.
It’s the old game: everybody knows its crap but everybody uses it. So in the end -as long as they are not forced to- they won’t change their OS. That is why windows is still in use (somewhere ;-)).
This article is ultra low quality sarcazm that get me know how little IQ Linux zealots got. This article is ONE BIG REASON to NOT using Linux. Because You may some day have tot alk with some jurk like that to get Your linux-another-problem solved. Bye Bye Linux.
Mac OS X
It’s the sort of thing i expect to hear in the playground from a 5 year old. A bit tired, a lot like the author.
Grow up, or don’t say anything at all, there are plenty of constructive articals out there which discuss the merits of boths os’s and what they can do for the end user.
There are many sids to the debates that go on around the failings and successes that using one tool or another offers you. Personally I am somewhat agnostic towards products.
The article shames the locality where it was written. Its worse when the person whom penned such a poor piece cites at the bottom of the page what he has achieved and what his background is, was.
I don’t see how this sarcastic crap can even be held up as something worth reading. It is’nt, was’nt and should’nt be.
Windows has plenty of faults. But so do most OS’s – all of them are under full blown development after all, works in progress. Each generation IS better than the previous, wether this is in the corporate world of Apple, Microsoft, or in the open software world of the BSD’s or Linux.
In the end, all of the systems require a level of bending with the wind. Having used many systems over the years, ‘fighting’ with the system is not the way to get along with it. Find out what you need to do to maintain and look after it and do so. That applies to windows, linux and the BSD’s, and the rest.
I think a very great deal of the idiocy on display is people being pedantically foolish about what they think, or feel. This is usually caused by people getting to know one system, and simply failing to know the one they decide to compare it to. Its blissful ignorance and does not equate to an increase in useful information exchange.
Most systems require good administration, security, reasonable updating, and following good practice. The majority of sysytems become unhinged with enough tomfoolery. Almost all of them require that one has a willingness to absorb and learn about how to look after and use them, and all of them require require some effort in various guises.
I think its sad that the article even got posted. It adds absolutly nothing worthy. It does’nt help the end users, or vendors, it gives no one education. At best it is a comical piece, done badly. In some ways this is merely stupid zealotry done in the vein those who like to bash Apple or MS claim others persue.
AdmV
I like my Debian Linux, but to say Gnu/Linux is always better than windows and without issues is foolish. My list
1. problem with drivers, they are released later and is not as feature-komplete as their windows-counterpart, in debian even bigger problem because of its policy of not supporting non-open source drivers.
2. Namingconventions – realy non-existant in much of linux, etc is the name for the configuration catalog! why not use a descriptive name like configuration or config?
3. Configuration, I hate windows registry but Linux configuration could be inproved.
a. policy to always use xml for configuration files.
b. always bundle the configuration file with its
Application/Library. I realy love the .net concept
of x-copy.
4. Filesystem layout, non-intuitive, too much backward compatibility.
5. Internationalisation – Some part is lacking unicode support, had problem mounting my NTFS partition, filenames using Swedish characters (åäö) was garbled, such things should work out of the box. I get also a bit unconfortable with utf-8 coding and its variable char size and backward compatibility with ASCII, too easy to mix ASCII and utf-8; to use utf-8 is like using weak data types.
6. Plug-and-play doesn’t seems to be totaly finnished, should be improved with d-bus if I understand it rightly.
7. Distributions Fragmentation – can be a problem, specialy with regard with distribution of programs.
1.) Do you think Microsoft writes all those Windows drivers?
2.) That’s historic. It’s never bothered me, easier to type etc than config.
3.) Bad idea. XML is for storing heirarchal data. If your data isn’t heirarchal it’s total overkill. And it’s a bit more difficult to read than the “$var=val
” scheme.
4.) It’s non-intuitive, but it’s extremely powerful once you understand the purpose of it.
5.) Internationalization is great… NTFS is not really supported. I suggest if you wish it to be supported you beg Microsoft to open the specs on it.
6.) Works well here for supported devices. Hotplug is kinda recent though, a couple years ago plug and play stuff was actually bad.
7.) Well, you do use the de-facto standard GNU/Linux… Heck, half the distributions are Debian modifications!
For all of you people that seem to believe that there is only ONE single gui library for windows, wake up and smell the roses. At any one time on my windows desktop there are at least five different GUI libraries active, all looking different. When it’s at its worst, there are at least ten different GUI libraries running and making my desktop look like crap. Each taking up space on disk, in memory, and on my screen.
And every application these days seems to have their own, homegrown little GUI library, worst of all, they all want to be “hip”, so of course most use “skins” to further clutter my desktop. Not even among the standard software included WITH windows you can rely on them using the same GUI library. The only software that uses the win32 GUI library seem to be fun things like Calc and Notepad. Don’t make me even think of all the different GUI libraries in use by all the software Microsoft produces.
And as a rule of thumb, all these different GUI libraries reek. I for one was pleasantly surprised when I started using Linux again after a few years since last, due to the fact that a very rare few applications used some never heard of GUI library that looked like someone had barfed on the screen.
The worst situations I have faced on Gnome/Ubuntu is when I encounter some application that is either a decade old, or statically linked against a GUI library that is a Decade old, therefore not fitting in with the rest of the desktop.
If the main point is how the even lower integration parts work, then I do have to say that there is a bit left to work out, but thanks to such cooperation efforts such as Freedesktop the “Linux” desktop is getting better and better all the time.
// KawF
I am not an MS GUI guru but I thought you can write nice stuff with MFC no ?
Although there are other GUI libraries such as GTK, Qt for Windows and so on, so on. MFC is still working from 98/Me/2k/XP/2k3 right ?
In Linux if you wrote apps in GTK, you have to use GTK related Window Managers, otherwise you have to install GTK related libraries, same thing applies for Qt. The point is that they don’t have something similar that can unified the framework/technology/libraries.
In Linux if you wrote apps in GTK, you have to use GTK related Window Managers, otherwise you have to install GTK related libraries, same thing applies for Qt.
Many distros install both by default, otherwise they’ll be automagically installed the first time you install a GTK or Qt app on your system using an advanced package manager such as Synaptic or RPMDrake.
I believe the first post regarding this was about a unified framework or the use of one programming language without having to learn multiple libraries, not about installation issue.
Well, this isn’t the case in Windows, where there are multiple frameworks and multiple libraries – even from Microsoft.
MS comes up with C# that can handle OS syscall (I think), GUI, socket, and I think almost everything from client-side to server-side.
It is correct that one should learn several libraries (or namespace, or package or whatever that is), but I believe everything uses MS standard (naming convention, return, etc etc)
I have not tried C# actually, mostly I just heard stuff from channel9.msdn.com and came across several C# codes. My school uses Java in almost every courses except Computer Systems related courses.
Of course you can say that Perl can do everything like this, but some people will bash that Perl is a scripting language, Perl is a bit cryptic, etc etc.
I think people are looking for more organized development environment. Java was good, but there were complaints about its ability to run as a client side GUI, and the sandboxing for OS related (due to security reason).
VB was a very weak PL back in VS 6.0. But nowadays with .NET, things have shifted a bit toward MSFT.
Last year I almost wanted to switch everything to Linux because of the marketing that IBM pulls, the gain of popularity from Java + J2EE, plus the whole Linux kernel developers are wanted by big companies.
I know Java might have different goals to .NET. Java itself can do GUI, Console, DB, Socket, LDAP, Server-side, but less in touching to OS (I think). And GUI in Java has been debated for sometime. J2EE is not an easy technology to be learned as well, plus the hardware and software requirements are quite expensive I believe. I heard Java runs at best in Sparc machine, of course this is just a business strategy.
But the more and more I saw videos about .NET functionalities (including that speech recognition library). I thought, wow, C# gives the steering wheel for the Developers to do whatever he/she wants for better or worse. One could develop a website, a rich client, a GUI client-side, a console based application, you name it all (including stuff for mobile devices) and everything could be built using C#.
Marketing proves something eh
Well, you have to have the libraries installed in either case. If you use a GTK window manager, the libraries were installed with the WIndow Manager. If they weren’t, your package manager will notice you need GTK and install the libraries for you. Same with QT, wXwindows…
Reason 1: Its too complicated. I am an enterprise application developer using C++/JAVA/Python and doezens of toolsets, libraries, on dozens of platforms from handhelds to mainframes. And you know, everytime I installed linux, from Mandrake to Debian I always always got lost. Spent hours using how to’s which never ever work out as they described. And still not have a working system. So your sarcasm aside. LINUX IS TOO COMPLICATED. I consider myself a pc guru, knowing the inner working to the out, but I really have better things to do with my weekends than try to figure out why the flip something wont work and where the magic config file hidden today.
Even when the worst happens in windows, I can figure it out in under an hour. Thats not to say I dont linux is good, I do, I hate windows, and will slag it off any chance I get. But truth be told, I can do things in windows. In Linux I cant do it unless I have a whole weekend of time to spend digiging through support forumms.
Which leads directly to the second real reason. Hardware support. To this day, with all the advancements, I still get Kernel locks on bootup with 90% of distros. My hardware is not bezare or unsual. No errors, no kernel panics, just death. So much for easy. So much for put the DVD in and press enter. Windows, pile of *** that it is, you have to put the DVD in, press a hundred buttons, asnwer 100 stupid questions. Reboot for half a day. But hey after that it WORKS!
Reason: Linux doesn’t have enough applications.
Yeah linux has soooo much choice. You get 1000s of sub rate programs none of which is realease quaility, vs the one windows one which actually does the stuff its meant to. To be fair, in mainstream linux has a lot of good stuff now, OpenOffice, Firefox, Opera, etc… But anything beyond email, office processing, and possibly IM (although most IM clients in linux are bit on the rough side).
But lets take an example: Everyone thinks thunderbird is so great. I have it installed on dozens of machines. What do we get. Thunderbird has a bug which when forwarding attachments with no name, it changes the name (yes changes it for a forward) to “null.eml”. A few million ISPs think its a good idea to block attachemtns with “null.eml” so it makes thunderbird USELESS. The bug has been reported by myself and dozens of other people. Its been open for over a year. But instead of getting this absolutly neccessary functionl thing, we get not so important dumb fixes to things which are neither here to there. Result. TB is no good as an email client. If you cant email you business associates, whats teh point of having email? So its has to be uninstalled this week and replaced.
This is the reality of linux. Its also why macs are so popular. Cause you can just turn them on! Linux could learn a lot from apple and microsoft. Microsfot too could learn a lot from linux. Now if that happens let me know and we will have a brighter future.
In the mean time, must every evanglistpromote there OSes blindly ? Cant we have some common sense ?
Locks up during bootup with no panic? Honestly, I’ve never seen that happen in 3 years with Linux on probably 100 machines. I think I’ve only seen it happen once with Windows; and that was the fault of a corrupted partition…
I’ve also dealt with a few Macs: I got news for ya, they break too.
I think that as a developer you’re going to get frustrated with any system you have to port to, unless someone has written an application to do most of the porting for you.
People arguing over an article which itself is hilarius. This entire scenario is hilarius.
People you dont realize that you are wasting some Mega-watts of energy every year as well as bandwidth and time. You are arguing on a topic which is perspective based and hence you are arguing on your own perspective thus doing no useful work.
If anyone here was so concerned on doing useful work they would probably spend this time in writing code or giving a feedback to developers or doing something more productive like your regular work. Topics that have to be discussed upon do not recieve a fair amount of criticism or arguement at any time. Present your views on topics such as technology becoming cheaper and cheaper everyday and do not start flame-wars just arguing on the same topic.
THIS JUST SHOWS discussions online between differing opinions regarding software technology is at such a low level.
Yet we find people making a sort religion of the software they use and just try to downprove some other’s software. It just sums up to plain ridicule.
People just don’t get it!
Linux will never take off as long as white box makers have to frig around getting the latest greatest distro to run on the latest greatest hardware, they just don’t have the frigging time to waist on trying to make linux run – It’s a problem people and until linux has some sort of standard way to install hardware it will go nowhere!
Take my machine for instance, it’s over a year old, yet not one distro will boot the damn thing, not one of them.
I did get Ubuntu to boot once, but it just borked loading the Gnome desktop, hell I even got Gnome to load in the end, only to find I had no network, no sound and crappy graphics. I mean sh!t, how can you expect people to except this? Oh they say, “just open up you Xorg file and edit some lines” – What frigging line, there’s 90 of them and they all mean jack sh!t to me!
Blame the hardware makers they say; yeah like Nvidia aren’t trying, even ATI for that matter, yet still thousands of people have trouble installing purpose built drivers from the big name companies on linux – It’s a non issue on windows compared to linux and that’s a fact!
Linux zealots as much as I admire their tenacity, just don’t get it and are making things worse IMHO! Just the same old, same old crapola – It just isn’t ready yet, but I’m sure it will be one day (:
Linux zealots as much as I admire their tenacity, just don’t get it and are making things worse IMHO! Just the same old, same old crapola – It just isn’t ready yet, but I’m sure it will be one day
I agree with the first statement, but in reality, there really are not that many of them. Sure, the Linux zealots are very vocal, but so are the Windows zealots. And the Windows zealots offer equally “same old crapola”. Just as it is tiresome to read repeatedly that Linux is the solution to all problems, it is tiresome to read the ubiquitous myths about Linux like:
– user must compile software to install it.
– user must search and install dependancies to install software.
– cannot play DVDs on Linux
– must edit config files to get Linux itself to install
– there are no games for Linux
– there is no software for Linux
– no companies use Linux
– there is no support for Linux
Of course these things happen sometimes, but most times they do not.
Which brings me to the last statement “It just isn’t ready yet, but I’m sure it will be one day”. Nonesense. It may not be ready for you, but for many people it works just fine. Just like for many people Windows works just fine, and for others it is not even close.
It seems to me that zealotry cause many to make absolute statements about their operating system of choice, whether it is Windows, Linux, or any other.
I actually DID take the time to look up those lines and add them to my Xorg file. And you know what? I had more working screen resolutions available than Nvidia gave me in Windows.
I also enabled transparency (and later disabled, because, well, I’m not sure I needed it in the first place). I don’t think Windows will get that until Vista; I can have it right now.
But really, this is the hardware support problem I mentioned. Nvidia makes sure their installer installs the drivers, registers them, and configures the configuration files, on Windows. That’s where their real business is; that’s where everything MUST go smoothly, so they make it work. They more or less do Linux a favor by giving us a Linux installer that gives us a driver. (and Ubuntu actually registered them and installed them, for me at least)
And last time I reinstalled Windows, I ended up having to find and download network, sound and graphics drivers on another computer… Windows doesn’t just come with them either!
By writing a driver for Linux I’d say that Nvidia gets a guaranteed fanbase of about .5% of the market. It seems tiny, but that’s a vocal .5% who will tell their buddies that “ATI sucks.”
That’d be my guess why they do it.
The only thing that makes nvidia difficult to install is if your distribution fails to include /usr/src/linux. Most include it, but some ship without it and make you install it by hand. They do it to try and save you 10MB of disk space…
Anyway, some distros install and configure nvidia for you. I believe Linspire and XandrOS both do it. In Arch it’s a package to install.
And here’s how to switch to nvidia easily in xorg.conf:
emacs -nw xorg.conf
alt+shift+5
nv[ret]
nvidia[ret]
y
That was rough… Course, most of the people who go to try that may find that their distribution doesn’t install emacs by default; but I think once they see emacs they’ll understand why..
… That article back fired didn’t it?
Loads of comments on here, saying that Linux is STILL not working straight out of the box, and it just shows off the Linux smugness to the fore.
…no, it didn’t, as I don’t think the purpose of the article was to win the postcount battle on a troll infested computer forum.
Anyway, really nice article, thanks for posting it.
I tried a couple of fresh distros on my laptop end of last year. For each of them, I had to recompile my kernel to get wireless to work. It took me a few hours of googling just to find that and another day of experimenting and more googling to actually figure how to do that and get it to work. This is for a linksys wireless card, there’s got to be a billion of those things around.
Gee, in all the Windows machines I’ve installed I’ve never had to rebuild the kernal to get basic hardware to work. The Linux zealots don’t get it, I don’t want to recompile my kernel, I just want it to work and Windows does.
I won’t claim that Windows is without it’s security problems, but for a home user that uses the built in firewall, uses a virus scanner (free AVG), uses alternate mail and browsers, lets it auto update, and is smart enough not to run every EXE they run across, Windows will run just fine for a longer time than the hardware will be worth running.
I find it highly dubious that you would have to recompile the kernel to get a wireless card to work. Compile a kernel module, maybe, but recompiling the actual kernel?
Which linksys card was it? Did you try installing ndiswrapper instead? It works with most wireless adapters, and doesn’t require you to compile squat. I worked fine with my own laptop (though I ended up compiling the rt2500 native module because I wanted to use the nifty raconfig utility…)
I won’t claim that Windows is without it’s security problems, but for a home user that uses the built in firewall, uses a virus scanner (free AVG), uses alternate mail and browsers, lets it auto update, and is smart enough not to run every EXE they run across…
That seems like an awful lot of work just to be safe. Me, I just use Linux behind a router and that’s it! It’s a lot more convenient.
Again, let me remind you the cost of Windows malware for 2004, estimated at between 160 and 200 billion dollars…
But, After all this myth, the author is still using Linux. He is using everywhere from server to desktop as wherever it is posible. because:
1. He like Unsecure linux
2. He like it with unqualified aplication
3. He like everything from linux…wow
Why didn’t he change to secure windows? ummm…
>>I won’t claim that Windows is without it’s security problems, but for a home user that uses the built in firewall, uses a virus scanner (free AVG), uses alternate mail and browsers, lets it auto update, and is smart enough not to run every EXE they run across
If they have to do all that, it is better learn linux. I dont want to have a built in firewall, or a resource consumming virus scan, or a alternate mail or browser, or remember to auto update, or not run exe files. I just want things to work. You see how every issue applies to both OSs. Windows is forcing everybody to be a geek to have you computer running or at least know one. Like a previous post said: every OS sucks.
I have tested a lot of live cd’s. Always with fun. My main problem is that on Linux I never succeed to put my Internet connexion to work. To complicate, to much for me. I do not know what is my ip adress, what a gateway and so on. Are you using DHCP? What is this?
I spent hours googling (forum and so) to find a solution. The only thing I find are people with the same problem. It should not be very hard, but how?
to use Linsux. I prefer FreeBSD for server and WinXP for desktop.
Really a poor article, when it comes to free software arguments. The author forgot there are Windows versions as well.
It’s not Mac OS X (ie, it blows goats as a desktop OS, at least for me).
– chrish
You guys seriously blow me (away). RTFA you morons. Did you not notice the pumpkin logo.. or the sarcasim. Hahahahhahahahha Idiots.
Did the USA really land on the moon?
Were there any WMDs in Iraq?
Are there any apps for Linux worth using?
1. Yes
2. There are NOW…
3. Yes, but not enough to make anyone switch (outside of the sciences)
1. Yes
2. No
3. Yes
Some examples for point #3: Konqueror (better than Windows/Internet explorer), k3B (better than Nero), Amarok (best audio player around), Apollon (best P2P app around), Kopete or Gaim (both allowing to connect to multiple IM networks at once), Mplayer/Xine (support Windows Media files, Quicktime files, Realplayer streams, all from one app), Kmail/Evolution (better than Outlook Express)…the list goes on.
Well some Linux apps are really sub-standard. Linux folks who push newer apps need to take a break. Why reinvent wheel everytime. Case in example, Default KDE menu entries has all this crap in Accessory Sound and Multimedia and Internet applications, Who uses it anyway ? Kmail/ Kooka / Rhythmbox /Konqueror/ KSH*T KOffice. IT comes pre installed and you can get rid of them without letting your system be unusable. Having choices is good when it is within good apps. If you have a choice of one substandard app over substandard app. Who takes the blame Linux obviously. I see the only problem with linux in the efforts being fragmented. Linux should be able to DROP projects in favour of better projects. One case in point is XMMS I see new half cooked apps like rhythmbox Amarok and other which some distros have started including. Also the sound system you have alsa arts esound , why isn’t one project making the other obsolete. Whatever, my only reason when I boot into Windows is when I want to play videos on webpages.
That is all it was meant for.
A bit of sarcasm to blow some of the most basic and useless arguements used for FUD effect to dissaude the curious from trying out linux.
You want some real reasons NOT to use linux:
1. You rely day to day on apps with no linux equiv that is compatible. Visio and that MS Project are two with no apps that decipher the MS file formats for example.
2. You are a gamer. Yes, you can say just get a console but that is not the same and the Cedega option is not robust enough for a hardcore PC gamer.
3. You like Windows. Some people like XP and I am not sure why people have such a problem with that.
4. You hate Microsoft. Just because you dislike the company is no reason to switch from a fully functioning OS only to become frustrated because linux does not act exactly the same way Windows does.
I use linux because I am a unix sysadmin and I do not like windows. I prefer linux and *Nix systems, period.
Plus, I don’t steal software so to replicate the functionality I have with my little Ubuntu system would quite literally cost me more than my PC does right now.
So I like the system and it costs less. Its a win for me but not all people.
My only wish is that the author would examine some real reasons for not using linux.
Perhaps that would eliminate the small number of people that try out linux for the wrong reasons and end up frustrated that it does not behave like Windows.
Though not good enough,also use it
I run Linux on two of my machines but the biggest most up todate box is running Windows. Why you ask? because Games makers don’t support Linux. If I want to play new games I’m stuffed, windows or nothing.
I got here too late, but this starts off by pointing out how unlikely it is that you will need to use the command line in Linux (which distro?) – which is silly, because as soon as you want to do something crazy like install proprietary software (java, mp3, flash, Unreal Tournament 2003) you are going to have to use the command line.
I know this was just a joke, but it would really do the Linux community good if they could figure out how to get along with proprietary software.
I am one of the few people (imo) that actually understands what is meant by free as in freedom, and am less concerned about free as in beer – I don’t mind paying for quality software. I also understand that there are times where someone might choose to run proprietary software, and where that proprietary software does not represent a threat to personal freedoms. I’m talking about games here primarily – adn stuff like photoshop too, as long as their default image storage format is resonably open.
Really, “Linux” needs to make it easier to install proprietary apps – large repos are fine for the OSS stuff, but I doubt you will ever find UT2004, Photoshop, and other proprietary stuff in apt-get or synapse (or whatever).
By Captain N. on 2005-08-30 15:48:00 UTC
I got here too late, but this starts off by pointing out how unlikely it is that you will need to use the command line in Linux (which distro?) – which is silly, because as soon as you want to do something crazy like install proprietary software (java, mp3, flash, Unreal Tournament 2003) you are going to have to use the command line.
I know this was just a joke, but it would really do the Linux community good if they could figure out how to get along with proprietary software.
Most of the things you mention are either available as rpm or deb by someone somewhere. Therefore its available through the gui package tools.
The only thing you mention that is NOT included somewhere like this is Unreal Tournament 2003.
Btw, what are you talking about with Photoshop? If there was a linux version of Photoshop I have not heard of it.
Most How-To’s use the command line equiv simply because its easier to just list commands as oppossed to explaining the way to navigate the gui to do the same thing.
In Ubuntu if your a n00b the only thing you should have to drop down to the CLI for is to run the automate script for new users to get all the java, mp3, flash, and acrobat stuff automatically.
Maybe it has changed since the last time I tried to use Ubuntu (it probably has, things move quickly in OSS), but I was unable to find any graphic (and simple) way of installing java on Ubuntu – or flash. The standard way that I use on Windows, is going to the site, downloading the package then installing it. But it never seems that simple on Linux.
I guess you got me on that Photoshop deal, but the point is, installing proprietary stuff is not ever easy on Linux.
Maybe it has changed since the last time I tried to use Ubuntu (it probably has, things move quickly in OSS), but I was unable to find any graphic (and simple) way of installing java on Ubuntu – or flash. The standard way that I use on Windows, is going to the site, downloading the package then installing it. But it never seems that simple on Linux.
I guess you got me on that Photoshop deal, but the point is, installing proprietary stuff is not ever easy on Linux.
From the Ubuntu Guide:
sudo apt-get install sun-j2re1.5 (which means that you can get it in synaptics)
sudo apt-get install flashplayer-mozilla (same way)
You can change the sources.list from Synaptics and install these via the gui as well.
Again, it isn’t easy. I know that you can do it from the command line (that is what all that sudo apt-get install etc. is right?), but that isn’t easy. That solution also doesn’t work for packages that are not in synaptics like Doom 3 or UT.
In windows (or mac) I go to the website for whatever I want to download (UT or Doom 3, or whatever) download it, then install it (it’s different on PC and Mac, but it’s always the same within the platform – and all visual – especially Mac).
The point I’m trying to make here, is that Linux (all of the distros) need to have some similar command line less way to install random packages that are not listed in Synaptics from various websites – things like game demos.
and just to extend the conversation – it also needs to be dumb simple to remove the software.
Also, please don’t get me wrong, I’m an OSS advocate, and for the freedom, not the beer. I just think this is one of the biggest problems with Linux distros, and so many in the community seem to think it’s fine.
Again, it isn’t easy. I know that you can do it from the command line (that is what all that sudo apt-get install etc. is right?), but that isn’t easy. That solution also doesn’t work for packages that are not in synaptics like Doom 3 or UT.
No I said anything you can apt-get from the commandline you can get through Synaptics which is GUI tool — let me repeat — a GUI tool.
Doom 3 or UT are notable exceptions to this rule.
And yes it would be great if they all used autopackage. But overstating the problem does not help either.
In windows (or mac) I go to the website for whatever I want to download (UT or Doom 3, or whatever) download it, then install it (it’s different on PC and Mac, but it’s always the same within the platform – and all visual – especially Mac).
There’s nothing preventing Id or Epic from releasing Doom 3 or UT with a graphical installer, such as the Loki installer (used nowadays by Codeweavers for Crossover Office). This installer works on pretty much every distro out there – and in fact it’s perfect for games, which usually don’t rely too much on outside libraries.
So there is in fact such an installer available. If you don’t like how Id or Epic distribute the Linux versions of their games, I suggest that you write to them to complain. It is not the distro makers’ responsibility to package commercial games.
There’s something else you said that I disagree with: the idea that something is hard because it uses the command line. The truth is that using the command line isn’t hard, it’s counter-intuitive for people who know only the GUI. There’s a big difference.
It’s actually easier to do phone tech support when using the command line, as it is simpler to tell the user which commands to type than it is guiding him through a GUI blind. It’s also easier to put command-line instructions on a web site, or in a manual.
Back in the DOS days, people used to use the command line all the time – and these weren’t computer geeks, but secretaries, teachers and regular people. Once you know which commands to enter, the CLI is quite easy to use.
There’s something else you said that I disagree with: the idea that something is hard because it uses the command line. The truth is that using the command line isn’t hard, it’s counter-intuitive for people who know only the GUI. There’s a big difference.
Ummm, no. The CLI is unintuitive PEROID. It may be easier and faster to get things done once you learn it, but if I sit you down in front of a system with a CLI you’ve never seen and told you to partition the hard drive, you don’t have a clue how to do it. At best you’ll have to consult the manual or type ‘help’ and hope something comes up. But if I sit you down in front of a GUI with menu options and buttons, you can generally figure it out just by looking at it.
So, what’s the middle ground here? Give me a system with a nice, intuitive GUI that I can use right out of the box to get work done, but give me a powerful CLI as well, so I can take the training wheels off when I’m comfortable with the system and ready to do so.
So, what’s the middle ground here? Give me a system with a nice, intuitive GUI that I can use right out of the box to get work done, but give me a powerful CLI as well, so I can take the training wheels off when I’m comfortable with the system and ready to do so.
In other words, Linux… 🙂