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Linspire Pitches to Education Vertical Market

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Intentionally or not, Linspire may be trying to become the “Education Linux” distribution. The desktop Linux software maker, formerly known as Lindows, Thursday launched a new, low-cost licensing program for schools who wish to install a Linux desktop operating system as an alternative to the more expensive Microsoft Windows operating system.

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Thom Holwerda

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57 Comments

  1. 2005-10-14 11:15 am
    rapont

    Er, I don’t get it.

    Firstly – why should Educational Institutions have to pay for Operating Systems at all? This is not directed just at Linspire, but also to Microsoft etc – surely they should be spending money on educational services rather than giving it to Corporations just trying to make some money!

    Secondly – why would a school who is interested in Linux choose Linspire? why not use the GPL’d version of OpenSUSE or Mandriva (when it’s released) or any of the others that are especially designed for classroom use (and are FREE!) or even free-as-in-beer but non-GPL’d SUSE 10?

    In my opinion this PR stunt has backfired – if they would have given it free to schools then it would have worked. Then again – it shows you what Linspire are like ;)

    • 2005-10-14 11:27 am
      Thom Holwerda

      Secondly – why would a school who is interested in Linux choose Linspire? why not use the GPL’d version of OpenSUSE or Mandriva (when it’s released) or any of the others that are especially designed for classroom use (and are FREE!) or even free-as-in-beer but non-GPL’d SUSE 10?

      Because they need support, sonny.

      why should Educational Institutions have to pay for Operating Systems at all?

      For the same reason they have to pay for chairs and broomsticks.

      • 2005-10-14 11:53 am
        rapont

        Because they need support, sonny

        Well first of all – the only support you are getting is via a web forum, which I think is the same as about 90% of all the linux distros out there. Secondly, don’t SUSE provide support (albeit paid for) for SUSE 10?

        Secondly – some companies have philanthropic causes, they see it as being a way to help society – see Google.org for reference in case you don’t understand it

        Thirdly – don’t call me “sonny” – your two years younger than me, which just makes it offensive

        Fourthly – chairs and broomsticks are physical objects which they use – an Operating system is a whole load of programming code with maybe some Intellectual Property in there – it’s not exactly the same.

        • 2005-10-14 11:58 am
          Thom Holwerda

          the only support you are getting is via a web forum, which I think is the same as about 90% of all the linux distros out there.

          There is a difference between getting support from people like you and me and getting support from paid professionals. Whether they truly are professionals is a different matter of course. By paying for support, they MUST give support. You can hold them accountable. You cannot do that when you download OpenSUSE.

          an Operating system is a whole load of programming code with maybe some Intellectual Property in there

          Yup, and a whole lot of manhours in making that code actually work. A chair is just some iron and wood. Plus manhours in making it into a chair.

        • 2005-10-14 1:18 pm
          Anonymous

          Someones a bit naieve.. A way to help society my ass.. more like an easy way to get a tax break.. No-one does anything for nothing, or “to help society”. They are a company, they make money.. Hell why should the school have to pay for anything? Why not just give them a free building, and free lunch supplies, and free desks, and free everything? Companies should go bankrupt for the children.

        • 2005-10-14 1:27 pm
          Anonymous

          Fourthly – chairs and broomsticks are physical objects which they use – an Operating system is a whole load of programming code with maybe some Intellectual Property in there – it’s not exactly the same.

          So, if I find a rock I can sell it…yet, if I write a story I shouldn’t be able to?

        • 2005-10-14 8:42 pm
          Sphinx

          Word. System administration should be a part of every curriculum, taught just like any other subject, they’d support themselves after the first year…

      • 2005-10-14 1:33 pm
        Anonymous

        A certain type of outlandish reasoning can only be found on the Osnews-forums…

        OpenSuse is only out for a *week* – yet, in total disbelieve you ask how anybody could not have gotten his head round getting Opensuse so far. And we are talking about large institutions here that need planning certainty, support, etc…

        In that respect, your Mandriva reference takes the cake – you acknowledge it is not even out yet, still anybody looking for a solution *now* surely must be a complete idiot where he’s prepaid to actually pay something for a readily available solution.

        As for giving Windows away for free… “anti trust” – you heared of it…

      • 2005-10-14 3:49 pm
        Anonymous

        Just my two cents, but as someone who works for a school, support is something that would need to be more clearly defined. We never call in for support on our Windows desktops and we use Fedora for our Linux desktops because there is no need for support on them as long as there are security updates available.

        On the server side we run some Windows servers, again never calling MS for support and run Fedora when using an opensource app and use RedHat when running a commercial app, because that is what the vendor will support.

        So I am not sure what support you would be referring to with regards to the OS.

      • 2005-10-16 11:53 pm
        Anonymous

        Because (in addition to support) Linspire installs in 10 minutes and can be run by any Windows user. The “learning curve” is minimal. Everything just works out of the box, no configuration, etc. Remember: Linux is supposed to be about choice. Are we going to get like Windows and insist everyone only use the same Linux distros? What difference does it make which Linux system they choose?? They are leaving Windows!!!

    • 2005-10-14 5:59 pm
      Anonymous

      “why should Educational Institutions have to pay for Operating Systems at all?”

      What planet are you from?

      • 2005-10-14 6:40 pm
        Anonymous

        What planet are you from?

        They don’t have to they just have to download Debian or any other free distro.

      • 2005-10-14 7:35 pm
        Anonymous Penguin

        “What planet are you from?”

        And which galaxy are you from? Debian has absolutely everything needed in any school, and plenty more.

  2. 2005-10-14 11:42 am
    Anonymous

    Because they need support, sonny.

    Exactly a company and/or school has to have support. Wether they get that support from local people or through another company they still have to have it. If a home user can’t get their PC to work oh well the letter to aunt Betty is a little late. If your local school can’t get the computers to work well that is your childrens future.

  3. 2005-10-14 11:50 am
    Anonymous

    Is Linspire a company that is going to be around in 5 years? Michael Robertson left it, just like he has left many other projects during their twilight.

    Also how exactly is Linspire better than K12LTSP? or one of the other distros aimed at college students? Click-n-Run isn’t even going to be an option for the end user, it MAY be an option for the teacher, though I doubt they’ll install anything and would only benefit a Sys Admin—nice if you’re the sys admin selling the service.

    Schools are constantly under funded requiring most administrators to request funds to buy non essential items (anything other than books and desks) at least 5 times. ANYTHING is an improvement over their current system.

  4. 2005-10-14 1:13 pm
    wish

    Why would you pay for linspire when you have such quality stuff like http://www.edubuntu.org/

    • 2005-10-14 1:55 pm
      Anonymous

      Why would you pay for linspire when you have such quality stuff like

  • 2005-10-14 1:16 pm
    Who is That

    such as mind mapping software like “Kidsperation”, and gradebook systems that can scale from a single desktop user to an entire network to the web.

  • 2005-10-14 1:17 pm
    Anonymous

    Linspire 5.0 is about $50 (download, $60 boxed), Linspire click and run 1 year subscription is about $100. Total: $150.00.

    I poked around the Linspire site, and didn’t see that CNR and Linspire 5.0 were at all bundled.

    If anyone knows differently!

    • 2005-10-14 2:00 pm
      Anonymous

      The hidden secret is to buy CNR, then download the iso.

      Actually it really isn’t a big secret. It’s been mentioned in their forums numerous times.

      Oh and BTW, you can get CNR Basic for $19.95.

      Oh and BTW II, you must not have poked around the Linspire site very much since there is a boxed OS and CNR version for $89.95 on this page:

      http://www.linspire.com/product_page.php

      • 2005-10-16 11:29 pm
        Anonymous

        Tell it like it is, anon.

        Surely Linspire sales would be actively searching for customers. Likewise Ubuntu & Suse & Mandriva…etc. Perhaps Linspire have a better sales team?

        pobox90210.

  • 2005-10-14 1:41 pm
    Anonymous

    Anybody know EXACTLY what major universities actually pay for a Windows license per seat, or via VLK?

    Don’t speculate. We want the real price.

    • 2005-10-14 1:51 pm
      Andrew Youll

      At a Highschool near to where I am at this moment in time, that I actually attended, they pay £80/system for a Windows2000 License, this Highschool in particular has roughly 200 windows PC’s + 9 Windows2000 servers (they may have updated to 2k3 since I left), I don’t know what they paid for the server licenses but still:

      80 * 200 = £16,000

      I also forgot to mention that some machines we’re bought with WinXP installed, and they in turn downgraded them to Win2k.

      But here in the UK atleast, Companies “Sponsor” schools in order to get tax breaks, where they donate say 75 systems to a school in order to get tax cuts from the government.

    • 2005-10-14 2:08 pm
      Anonymous

      I manage the Microsoft Campus Agreement at a university. We pay an annual amount for our agreement that includes OS upgrade assurance for all of our desktops, Office suite licenses, and core client access licenses for all faculty, staff, and lab computers. Last year it was $46 per full time equivalent(FTE) employee.

      • 2005-10-14 3:15 pm
        Anonymous

        “Last year it was $46 per full time equivalent(FTE) employee.”

        Thanks for your input.

        Obviously, that adds up to a fare chunk of change.

        However………

        It is actually much less than I expected.

      • 2005-10-14 9:13 pm
        Cyberbear

        I do the same at the University where I work. The annual MS fees were over $16000 this year.

        Don’t forget that any new computer(s) purchased must still come with Windows pre-installed.

        So you effectively pay twice for Windows usage on some of your computers. We added about 100 new computers to our campus this year. Given that an OEM version of Windows goes for about $80, then we paid about $8000 more to use Windows for a year.

        When we take computers out of service, due to age, we don’t ever get a rebate for the copies of Windows we won’t be using anymore.

        I am not saying that Microsoft isn’t entitled to their fees, or that schools should run to linux, but it certainly is an expensive proposition to stay with Windows year after year. I wouldn’t blame administrators for looking for more cost effective solutions.

    • 2005-10-14 3:52 pm
      Anonymous

      You don’t have to license it per seat. You can get a Microsoft Campus agreement and that cost is based on the applications included in the agreement and your FTE.

  • 2005-10-14 2:13 pm
    Anonymous

    I think they don’t use something free not because they need the support, but because there’s nobody there to pitch the free-as-in-beer operating systems. Linspire has marketing people and folks that go there and try to convince the organizations to implement their OS just like Microsoft, but organizations like Debian don’t have folks like that.

  • 2005-10-14 2:31 pm
    Pelly

    Linspire appears to be taking a page from Apple Computer and how they got the entire Apple II line (II+, IIe, IIE Enhanced & IIgs) into schools all over the U.S.

    Apple used the “Sealtest Freezer” appoach. Apple provided the computers some s/w at virtually cost to the schools. The schools would then use the computers to train their staff & students. Of course, they paid for additional s/w titles (at discounted prices) and they also paid a moderate, but low, service fee agreement.

    The children were taught on Apple Computers. They were taught DOS 3.3, ProDOS, Apple Pascal, AppleSoft Basic.

    Of course, the immediate spillover was that many kids wanted an Apple Computer for their home. Many families did purchase the various models of the Apple II Computers and many of these kids became quite adept at machine language programming with the 6502 series microprocessore.

    Linspire seems to be using a variation of this marketting model. Since the schools already have the h/w, all they’d need is the new OS.

    With children using computers that are loaded with Linspire, the parents will be more inclined to purchase it for their home. This will keep the kids in practice, and provide Linspire with more sales figures.

    Not a bad plan, when all is considered.

  • 2005-10-14 2:37 pm
    GrapeGraphics

    Listen to yourselves, fighting amongst distros. This is why Linux doesn’t have a chance to win the hearts and minds of the general public.

    I think it’s great that Linspire is, at least, making an attept.

    IMHO

    • 2005-10-14 6:40 pm
      Robocoastie

      it’s only when Linspire is the subject GrapeGraphics. Despite the fact that Linspire is one of only two distros that listend to what customers want and licenced dvd and multimedia codecs (turbolinux is the other) whenever Linspire comes up people knee jerk. They don’t do it with Mandriva, or Xandros – also “pro” distros because they only charge you for the software – not the apps.

      But what people constantly fail to realize is that the CNR subscription (for that’s the part they really hate Linspire about) gets you all future versions of the OS.

      And this CNR subscription is cheaper than the purchase price of the new versions of the other guys’.

      The other thing they hate about Linspire, and this one I agree with, is the dumbing down of users Linspire does. Its users are often whiners like children who don’t want to learn HOW to solve a problem but just want the answer to the problem – its incredibly annoying.

      • 2005-10-15 3:28 am
        Anonymous

        Good comment! Just one quibble:

        Its users are often whiners like children who don’t want to learn HOW to solve a problem but just want the answer to the problem – its incredibly annoying.

        You mean they’re like ordinary Windows users? Let’s face it, very few people want to learn how their computer works; just like very few people want to learn how their car works.

        I’m not saying this is a good thing; however, what I would suggest to you is that if Linspire has attracted these users then they are making progress for Desktop Linux. If Linux continues to attract only tech-savvy users then it will struggle to achieve mass adoption.

        Even though they’re a pain, these tech-phobic users are the future. The good news is that they understand about paying for services rendered and we – the techs – can make money by supporting them, just like we do with Windows users.

  • 2005-10-14 4:03 pm
    Anonymous

    Microsoft is offering licenses at US$ 2.50 for XP, Office and whatever is the computer is used in educational institutions (in ecuador). Still that doesn’t include the antivirus antispyware though.

  • 2005-10-14 4:05 pm
    doug

    I think any step like this is progress. Yes, it would make more sense if schools just used free version of Linux, and hopefully many will. But unfortunately there is still the notion that the more you pay for software the higher quality it is. At least this will open more eyes to alternatives to Windows and OS X.

  • 2005-10-14 4:11 pm
    rockwell

    //Still that doesn’t include the antivirus antispyware though.//

    All of which any entity can get for free:

    AVG Antivirus

    http://free.grisoft.com/doc/1

    SpyBot Search and Destroy

    http://www.download.com/Spybot-Search-Destroy/3000-8022-10289035.ht…

    AdAware

    http://www.lavasoftusa.com/software/adaware/

    • 2005-10-15 1:57 am
      Anonymous

      //Still that doesn’t include the antivirus antispyware though.//

      All of which any entity can get for free:

      AVG Antivirus

      SpyBot Search and Destroy

      AdAware

      Not true for 2 out of 3:

      AVG Free Edition is for private, non-commercial, single home computer use only. Use of AVG Free Edition within any organization or for commercial purposes is strictly prohibited

      Ad-Aware Personal edition is free for non-commercial use. For use in a commercial/educational/governmental environment or to purchase registered copies of Ad-Aware SE press the button below

  • 2005-10-14 4:24 pm
    Anonymous

    It’s all about the applications you need to run.

    The applications dictate the OS.

    As tough as it seems for some to grasp, you don’t just switch operating platforms because you can.

  • 2005-10-14 6:04 pm
    Anonymous

    Why are schools using linspire when we need to teach our youth that, using a computer is not all about “click&run”

    Kids like to learn not just click on things, and they should use SuSE or ubuntu. Commands are so easy and get you out of trouble, compling a kernel, it’s not that hard at all. It’s easier to do and quicker to use commands than clicking through windows and tabs, it will make our youth much more responible and confident to look after there system.

    Linspire is useless since it models itself on Windows and has a ani-virus, to make you think virus’s are a real threat on linux. Linspire is the last option for people to learn Linux since it dont follow any of the distros model, you even have to pay for the software, which is terrible.

    • 2005-10-14 6:55 pm
      Anonymous

      Maybe it’s not about “learning Linux”, but about using the computer to work on productive tasks.

      • 2005-10-14 7:35 pm
        Anonymous

        “Maybe it’s not about “learning Linux”, but about using the computer to work on productive tasks.”

        You couldn’t be anymore correct…..

        About 95% of the population has about as much interest in learning Windows as they do in learning Linux.

        Geeks get all wrapped up in the false assumption everyone gives a shit about computers. They don’t.

        Most just want to type their paper or do their presentation and move forward.

        They want to know “what time it is” rather than how to build a f–kin watch.

        • 2005-10-14 8:16 pm
          Anonymous Penguin

          And why should youngsters learn ancient languages, ancient literature, philosophy… and not computers?

          What is more relevant to modern life?

          • 2005-10-15 4:08 am
            Anonymous

            “And why should youngsters learn ancient languages, ancient literature, philosophy… and not computers?”

            Perhaps they have an genuine interest in ancient languages, ancient literature, philosophy, and NOT computers.

            An expert at any of those fields makes a damn site more money than the best of sysadmins.

          • 2005-10-15 4:59 am
            Anonymous Penguin

            “Perhaps they have an genuine interest in ancient languages, ancient literature, philosophy, and NOT computers.”

            Well… When I went to school Latin was compulsory starting from the age of eleven. Then I went to the only decent high school and I had to learn more Latin, ancient Greek and philosophy.

            I did enjoy philosophy to a point, but 8 years of Latin and 5 of Greek? English on the other hand was taught only for 4 years. No other modern language. I now look back at that as sheer lunacy.

        • 2005-10-14 8:25 pm
          Anonymous

          Oh come on, thats just ignorant because people in the moden age need to use a computer. It’s doesn’t take much brain power to learn something proper, thats the problem now days if it breaks blame someone else and let them sort it out for you.

          No time to fix the computer, just take it down to PCWorld traveling 3miles, get in trafic jams, use up fuel, pollute the atmosphere while your at it. All just because you couldn’t be bothered to learn how your own computer works, which you spent months saving for. linpire just does what Windows does, dont “inspire”you to learn it.

        • 2005-10-14 8:43 pm
          re_re

          I don’t care who you are, Linspire is not about “learning linux”. Linspire is about the most windows like, simple distro on the plannet (along with Xandros)

          If they wanted kids to “learn linux” they would teach them on LFS or Gentoo, not Linspire.

          IMO, Linspire would not be a good choice anyway, Xandros would be much better only because it dosen’t instill the bad security habits of Windows like Linspire does. (linspire.. administrator by default)

  • 2005-10-14 7:27 pm
    Pelly

    The other thing they hate about Linspire, and this one I agree with, is the dumbing down of users Linspire does. Its users are often whiners like children who don’t want to learn HOW to solve a problem but just want the answer to the problem – its incredibly annoying.

    I believe that’s an unfair statement. Rememebr that Linspire, even when they were Lindows, Inc., has always targetted the new Linux users.

    People new to any process, or different way of doing things, can always be perceived as being, ‘whiney.’ This is true during the ‘exposure’ and learning curve.

    The target market that Linspire aims towards are the people who want a low-cost alternative to Microsoft Windows and who just want to use their systems.

    Just because you can drive an auto doesn’t mean you have to know how everything works. All the driver needs a is basic skillset to operate the vehicle.

    Experience fine tunes the basic knowledge which comes from practice.

    No, I’m not a Linspire zealot but let’s not be mean just because the article is about them.

    • 2005-10-15 9:19 am
      Robocoastie

      >>Just because you can drive an auto doesn’t mean you have to know how everything works. All the driver needs a is basic skillset to operate the vehicle.

      You misunderstand me Pelly. First of all I was explaining one reason WHY people knee jerk about Linspire. Like it or not this is an undeniable reason. Secondly, I use Linspire on not one, not two, but three computers in my home one of which even does the file and print server work. Third I spend a lot of time on the Linspire forums and it gets to be a pain in the A$$ because the vast majority of them don’t want to learn. – And that’s selfish and against the entire open source nature of Linux.

      And yes you SHOULD know how your vehicle operates.

      • 2005-10-16 12:21 am
        abdavidson

        “I spend a lot of time on the Linspire forums and it gets to be a pain in the A$$ because the vast majority of them don’t want to learn. – And that’s selfish and against the entire open source nature of Linux.”

        What a load of rubbish! For everyone except geeks, using computers is task-oriented.

        I want to send an email.

        I want to browse the web.

        I want to play a game.

        It isn’t nor should it have to be about “I want to send an email therefore I must understand the underlying processes and show an interest in them lest I offend the geeks“. That’s just a ludicrous idea and totally forgetting what software is about. (hint: it’s about the user)

        “And yes you SHOULD know how your vehicle operates.”

        Why? I drive the car. I put petrol in. When the car breaks down; I get a mechanic. It’s a perfect synergy. Sure I could take the time to figure it out but my time is more important than that.

  • 2005-10-15 2:23 pm
    Pelly

    No problem. If I misunderstood, I appreciate you taking a moment to clarify.

  • 2005-10-15 5:45 pm
    Anonymous

    So what happens IF Linspire goes out of biz and there is nothing to CNR??? Use a different Linux PLEASE so you will always have it what you need in your hand and not just playing to a different masters tune…

  • 2005-10-15 6:09 pm
    Anonymous

    “But what people constantly fail to realize is that the CNR subscription (for that’s the part they really hate Linspire about) gets you all future versions of the OS.

    And this CNR subscription is cheaper than the purchase price of the new versions of the other guys’.”

    Nope! If I remember correctly the new $20 CNR does NOT get you access to the new versions so it is only the $50 gold version. And since I can get a lot of other linux(s) for free how is Linspire cheaper? What if Linspire does not come out with a new version for two years, how much is that? What if they come out and it just plain doesn’t work on my system, and I am stuck with my yearly subscription for what???

    I do know that they have problems putting the GPL on the CD, as well as the Linspire extras CD. I seen that on the GPL-VIOLATIONS list! I also seen that they do not include a source cd or a written offer and ONE of those is REQUIRED by the GPL! I also know that they are not a party to the linux/sco/ibm case because they paid money to sco, and yet will not state what it was or how much it was…that bothers me as well… So I do not even consider Linspire at all….for anything!

    Oh, and they also state they provide security updates to all users, yet no one can describe how you do that without having CNR? How does one get updates?

  • 2005-10-16 1:54 pm
    Anonymous

    car analogy doesnt work anyway… car takes you from point A to point B whereas a computer brings point a,b,c,d,etc… into your home on your computer system. You are inviting stuff onto your computer so you would be wise to learn what might be harmful for it.

    As you said you put in gas or petrol, thats right you LEARNED to put in petrol instead of oil or water or whatever. I assumed you also learned to push the brake to stop the car. When you see glass or a few feet of water or something harmful to your car do you drive right thru it or avoid it? So you learned what would be harmful correct? So do you take your car to the mechanic just to check the oil, the washer fluid etc…No, I didnt think so, same as you learn the basics of your computer and how to keep it running healthy and if something breaks that is complicated THEN you take it to a mechanic.

    So while you do not need to know squat about a computer to use it, that would be very unwise. Same as a car. At least mearn the basics about basic safety, maintenance, and safe operation….just like your car…

    jake tate ;) still kickin!

  • 2005-10-16 11:16 pm
    Wemgadge

    http://k12ltsp.org/contents.html

    Why would schools use linspire, when this ready made Fedora based solution is available for free? And this distro is headed by a School Teacher with a passion for linux!

  • 2005-10-17 3:52 am
    Robocoastie

    abdavidson, you miss the point as well.

    What happens is they piss and moan because they don’t know how to make their printers work, blame Linspire when it refuses to work (even though the hardware list tells them to consult Linuxprinting.org!), and then when the people that you are carelessly calling “geeks” TRY to help them they shit on us. Seriously – they are that freaking bad and I’ve had it with ’em. That’s why whenever Linspire comes up people knee jerk. They CLAIM they are a distro that just let’s you use email, and just let you use the ‘net yada yada, but their really just another KDE based distro nothing more nothing less. If it wasn’t for the few “geeks” on the forum they’d be up a creek without a paddle!

    As far as your comparison to an automobile do you not think a person should know how to check and get the right kind of f–king oil? That’s a fair comparison to learning how to edit the X11.org file to make the latest nvidia driver work or make their printer work.

    Oh and last I checked the basics of how the engine of an automobile worked was taught in 8th grade physics class so YES you SHOULD know how your f–king car works.

  • 2005-10-18 12:08 pm
    Anonymous

    It has not been publicly announced yet, but sub300.com (the world’s only Linux store) has created and implemented a “computer Lab” for schools where there is no budget for student computers. This pilot project does not cost the school a cent, they only have to provide the space, and an internet connection. The program emulates Audi’s warranty program, where they are trying to learn from the experiences of end users hoping to create better suited products.

    Using Lnspire as the o/s, and surfsafe, they are using the same machines that they are selling to the public. Any schools requiring this fantastic program should contact [email protected]