Submitted by SoftwareInReview takes a look at SUSE 10.1, and summarizes: “While SUSE Linux 10.1 has lost some ground on its wonderful predecessor, I can see where it is headed in the future – and I like what I’m envisioning. A mildly buggy release like 10.1 was necessary in the big picture, unless of course Novell had opted to wait until issues with Atheros drivers, the ZENworks updater, and XGL were resolved. That would have resulted in a ‘skipped’ release, I think. Despite the trouble I had with 10.1, none of the problems were showstoppers, nor would they keep me from continuing to use and recommend SUSE Linux.”
How many Suse linux reviews do we need? OK it can be a nice system (tried it but it was way to slow to use here (amd64 3500+, 1GB ram, geforce 6800, so beat me why it has to be this slow, but perhaps I did something wrong).
People were complaining about (K)ubuntu news, but at least it wasn’t always a review, rather more news about updates…
Well it’s one of the big three distro’s (the others being Fedora and Ubuntu), what do you expect? There were even more reviews when FC5 came out actually.
It is a nice system (tried it here on an Intel Celeron M processor (1.40GHz), 512MB ram, intel 855 GM, so beats me why it is so fast, but perhaps I did something right).
You’re not the first that said it was fast, but I just simply couldn’t get it to work faster, it was the standard install (with non open-source packages).
Please explain what was slow. I have it running on many systems (intels and amds, both 32bit and 64bit)and have run into people who say its “slow”. But whenever Im on their machine and ask where it is slow to try and help them out they just look at me and wonder why I remembered that and can never point to anything.
I will agree that ZMD is borked at the moment so that is mutual, but I would really like to know where it is slow otherwise compared to other distros.
100% correct jakesdad!
but I would really like to know where it is slow otherwise compared to other distros.
The boot process.Installing apps via Yast.Updating via Yast.Initial install.CD/DVD-rom access…
“but I would really like to know where it is slow otherwise compared to other distros.
The boot process.Installing apps via Yast.Updating via Yast.Initial install.CD/DVD-rom access…”
All these plus starting apps, why does it take seconds to start Konqueror?
I find it considerably faster than any previous version.
it’s fun, Now I like reading and using about open source software, before i was pro MS. Anyway it’s better then reading the nonsense mainstream media news
Dumping SUSE Watcher to be replaced by ZENworks may be actually a good thing once Novell provides an update this week to fix the bugs experienced by some people (specifically on KDE). If you’re unfamiliar with ZENworks then please see here http://en.opensuse.org/Zmd
As for not providing proprietory software well that’s normal for the OSS version of SUSE Linux. Though if one either purchases the distribution or downloads the “non-OSS DVD” from OpenSUSE.org they’ll find software included such as Flash, etc.
Also as I’ve stated previously in other reviews it’s apparent that Novell has focused more on the Gnome desktop than on KDE. While I’ve liked KDE, I do admit Novell has done things right with the Gnome desktop layout making it easier in this release to migrate either from KDE or from Windows desktop to SUSE Linux.
Edited 2006-05-28 16:33
Also as I’ve stated previously in other reviews it’s apparent that Novell has focused more on the Gnome desktop than on KDE. While I’ve liked KDE, I do admit Novell has done things right with the Gnome desktop layout making it easier in this release to migrate either from KDE or from Windows desktop to SUSE Linux.
Gnome needed surface work, KDE didn’t, they already have what is widely considered to be the tightest implementation of KDE.
What’s important to me is the work they did on things like Kerry and Knetworkmanager. They’re still building on KDE and developing for it, rather than simply packaging the DE like other distros do.
The other thing is that KDE is coasting in maintenance mode right now, there’s not much heavy lifting to do or investment to be made until 4.0 comes out. And as much as I’m sure the Ximian club wants all vestiges of kde purged from Novell prior to then lest they risk losing profile, there’s no way Novell/Suse is going to risk missing out on that train when it comes.
Besides, I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again. If you look at the work Novell/Suse is still putting into KDE combined with their attemtps to de-Gnomify Gnome and make it more accessible for new users, it’s easy to read between the lines and see that Novell is still hedging their bets with desktop choice, they haven’t committed to Gnome. They’re simply too busy rewriting everything in mono to care what desktop people choose.
While all i can say is:”So long SuSE,it has been a bumpy road to the summit (10) and now the path seems to be heading downhill (10.1)”.
What’s the difference between the commercial and OSS version besides a cheap thin manual and a cartboard box?
“What’s the difference between the commercial and OSS version besides a cheap thin manual and a cartboard box?”
1)About 5 Gig more software in the commercial DVD, if compared to the freely downloadable one.
2)By paying a reasonable amount of money you are thanking Novell/the developers for their effort and you help making furthur development possible.
And BTW the printed manual is neither cheap nor thin.
I remember that Suse was always famed for their good manual’s. Is this still the case?
The only meaningful difference is that instead of two manuals you now get only one. But it is quite good anyway.
And BTW the printed manual is neither cheap nor thin.
Compared to the included manuals of SuSE < 9.3 it is.
Not cheap of quality but less info.Previous version had a separate user and admin *book* included.
2)By paying a reasonable amount of money you are thanking Novell/the developers for their effort and you help making furthur development possible.
I have allways bought the versions SuSE 10 included.The commercial version had propietary drivers (atheros) and applications included.The whole package just made more sence to pay for.Now there isn’t much difference.
Priority one should be too mondernize the install. While its good that they offer an everything-plus-the-kitchen-sick set of discs, they need to have a Live disk on the first CD and a installer script that runs from there. If you don’t have the remaining 5 cds (yes it’s 6 disk set!) you should be able to use the internet. And the whole install experience needs to be trimmed down –take a lesson for Xandros whos got the best traditional installer out there.
“If you don’t have the remaining 5 cds (yes it’s 6 disk set!) you should be able to use the internet.”
actually you can, and have been able to for quite some time now… suse supports ftp, http and nfs, along with support for openslp.
The only way I would consider install SUSE is simple:
Make a one cd installation like Ubuntu.
That’s the only thing stopping me to try it.
Ubuntu has a one-CD install only because you download everything that doesn’t fit on the CD, not bcause they have a magical compression algorithm. SUSE offers a similar option, Look around the opensuse site.
The only thing I can find is a Live DVD, not cool.
And no, FTP install is not what Im looking for.
“And no, FTP install is not what Im looking for.”
why not? when you install debian or whatever other distro via the net, generally it’s using ftp (or http or nfs) to just grab it’s packages like suse does whether it be grabbing debs or rpms.
what are you looking for, an AFS install?
I want a simple CD I can install in every pc w/o the need to have to spend time downloading every time I have to install it, is not handy.
Because most of the times I download a distro is for installing it in other PC or Laptop that is not the one Im using to download it (my laptop for example).
Im not asking to much, Just a simple installer with the basic packages, I can download the rest by my self later.
Edited 2006-05-28 20:37
SUSE offers a similar option, Look around the opensuse site.
They don’t have have the sheer amount of high avaibility update servers much less a decent working package management system like apt.
Smart is pretty close to apt. Their update servers are bad, though.
“They don’t have have the sheer amount of high avaibility update servers much less a decent working package management system like apt.”
Wrong. Apt is still there, and on top of that you can use Smart which uses the apt repos.
Apt is still there that’s true.But it’s hardly as effective as apt on let’s say Ubuntu.The update servers
aren’t nearly as good.Ubuntu has a lot more high availability servers.The package manager can’t do anything about to change that.
One can have objections to apt, but smart works just fine on top of apt, IMO.
There aren’t many servers for apt/smart, that is true, but I have been using apt for SUSE for years now, and that has never been a problem.
The only thing that has to be downloaded in Ubuntu is language support. Everything else is just there – desktop environment, web browser, word processor, multimedia apps. Most of those are the ones that I’d choose myself, the rest is just few minutes of downloading. I don’t have tons of bandwith to waste so I just skip distros like Suse or Fedora.
Correct AND there’s only one browser per desktop environment, one video player, one audio player per default installed, don’t like the one installed? install another one. What’s the use in installing three mediaplayers (in such a slooooooow way, I really don’t understand why internet repos are this slow), it takes an awfull lot of time to install them, and after that you have to uninstall two of them, what’s the use of that?
All praise Suse, and I agree it’s heading in right direction, but while it “looks” professional, it still needs lots of work on many areas. For example I don’t like all glossy icons and feeling, like I’m in KDE, if I’m using Gnome. My wireless didn’t work (Atheros chip), which is big turnoff, since not all know how to install madwifi (even took me an hour). Not to mention buggy YaST, which is horrible – unstable and way too complicated for unexperienced users. Nice work, but maybe at 10.2 or 11 it’ll be on top with Ubuntu.
“A mildly buggy release like 10.1 was necessary in the big picture”
So this is in fact that Linux should be held to standards below Windows? Then that kind of defeats the reason of all the anti-MS zealots to cry how great Linux is. Frankly I am thoroughly disappointed in 10.1. Although I finally got it working, minus wifi of course, it took to long to configure, tweak, fix etc.. to get this to a decently stable running GUI OS. I would never have to do this with OSX or Windows which kind of leads to the question of how far of is Suse from trully being able to compete. With this release I would say it is still a long way off. Next release, Suse devs, don’t add any more eye candy crap like XGL, just build something that is stable with the minimal amount of time needed to setup! Glad I disk imaged my 10.0 install
you are an honest person! this is what i have been saying all along. but i get modded down. suse used to be good but this release is utter crap!
Saying someone is an honest person after they said Windows requires no tweaking after an install… Well, if they’re honest, then they’re just clueless.
ZMD sucks. Plain and simple. In another couple of months, it’ll be fine, because Novell has no choice but to fix it.
Now, what would make SuSE much better in my opinion, is an update system that doesn’t require me to “just know” about Guru and Packman.
Novell, of all the companies out there doing Linux distros, should be able to spare the bandwidth to provide some good installation repositories.
That would also allow them to ship a CD with a “must have” function set, and let people who have the pipes download the rest of the apps as needed.
So, pathetic? No. Needs more work? Yes.
Yeah, I was thinking about trying Suse 10.1, but the review kind of scared me off, especially the whole bit about having to download nvidia drivers from nvidia themselves and rebuild it for your kernel (no big deal, but still more of a time sink). Ubuntu Dapper is looking better at this point.
ssa2204,
Other than the bug reports regarding zmd (ZENworks Management Daemon) there is far less bug reports than when Windows XP was first released. This is not excusing Novell for releasing SUSE Linux with out thoroughly testing it in various settings but that it’s no where near as bad as you make it out to be.
I also use a WiFi encrypted LAN and didn’t have issues making it work. Though I use well known hardware from companies such as D-Link. On Windows XP Professional the same hardware required the manufacturer install disc for drivers which is not required on SUSE Linux. I’ve found through experience that it actually takes more time setting up a Windows LAN than a Linux LAN. This is due to one taking into account additional software and drivers that are not included with Windows but are typically included with SUSE Linux at no extra charge.
As for XGL it’s not installed by default and there’s a warning in the release notes regarding it’s use. Unless you want the additional eye candy then don’t install XGL, especially if you don’t meet the system requirements for XGL.
One thing I’ve noticed since migrating to Linux from Windows is that there are just as many people that lay fault for their issues on others (ie: software developer) and don’t take into consideration that it may be related to PEBKAC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PEBKAC).
Even though I like having the resources of the Linux community and helping others in my spare time it’s apparent that just as with Microsoft and Apple developers can’t please everyone all of the time. Some people dislike change such as with Novell dumping “SUSE Watcher” to instead use ZENworks which is already used with their Enterprise line. Also trying to focus more on Gnome across their entire line such as is done by other major vendors like Red Hat has tended to cause an uproar with some people.
I only want to set up an DSL connection with an ueagle-usb modem compatible and although I downloaded 3500 mb I still need to find more packages on the internet and read tons of documentation.
Furthermore I need to rebuil the kernel because module versioning sublevel.
Who cares about XGL when setting an internet connection is a nightmare, I want something that “just works”.
Yast has a module called DSL which is completely useless except for telling you that your connection failed.
To sum up, doesnt matter how many new features, XGL, flashy installer or beautiful icons you add to your distribution as long as you can set up a DSL connection in one minute and your printer in half minute.
Anyway, Fedora 5 has this nightmare feature too.
I won’t switch till Linux manufacturers realise that my time actually MATTERS.
Not too much offence intended, but if youre willing accept a USB broadband modem from your ISP, IMO you deserve every bit trouble you run into.
Common sense is your friend!
I like SuSE 10.1 and SuSE generally and am typing this on it, but 10.1 is not one of their best efforts imho. The wifi, Zen-updater and other bugs may not be showstoppers, but they are enough to discourage new users and there was definitely a time when SuSE would not have released something in this condition.
Just my 2 cents, but I don’t think that Novell + Gnome + Mono is “heading in the right direction” for SuSE unless driving over a cliff is what you have in mind. The strength of SuSE is KDE, to me. SuSE with Gnome and some ram-chewing mono apps may make a fine corporate desktop but that is a very different thing from the soho/enthusiast user’s ideal desktop which was once SuSE’s strength and, arguably, the reason for its popularity.
I’m afraid Novell is becoming indifferent to end-users and wants to go corporate only with their commercial products.
There was a time where SuSE Linux came inside a big box packed with booksize manuals and CD´s and numerous of extra (propietary) software not included in the download version.It realy made a difference to pay for the commercial version.
I was really disappointed with the update and installer – Yast. It simply didn’t work as advertised and had lots of issues with updating.
I own a powerbook and I can say with much assurance that if Linux wants to beat Windows on the desktop it *has* to get the install stuff sorted.
I simply don’t care if x.y.z library is having dependancy problems, I want the program installed with a drag and drop!
Why is this so hard for Linux to achieve?
I know the LSB 3.1 is going to sort out most of the packaging ugliness, to make RPM standard across platforms. (Remember the Redhat/Suse RPM issues!)
When the day comes that Linux “just works” and works well, Joe users will come.
In the mean time, I’m going back to Kubuntu.
Software installation in Suse 10.1 still just plain sucks.
I love Suse and I use it all the time, both at home and professionally, but Suse has screwed up what could have been a killer package. Suse 10 and all previous versions work just fine, but management, induced by the Ximian guys, made a political decision to include zmd.
Some packages do not install, other do some of the time and most of the time, things that used to take seconds now take minutes while zmd eats away at your CPU. After watching my computer come to a crawl I decided to investigate.
I knew this zmd shit was evil. I just wasn’t aware how evil it was. I had zmd eating CPU like crazy and I couldn’t kill it no matter what I did.
So I rebooted the machine, told the crappy update-manager icon to not load on start-up and to be sure it was gone just did the following in my box:
ps aux | grep “zmd”
Here’s what it responded, right after a reboot:
root 2778 3.1 1.0 63764 16424 ? SNsl 19:30 0:04 zmd /usr/lib/zmd/zmd.exe
So, no wonder this shit is buggy. It is probably written in C# using the mono-libraries, exactly the best choice for a low-level service that needs to be reliable. NOT!
The inclusion of this untested piece of shitware had the digital fingerprits of the ximian-monkeys all over it and now it’s been confirmed.
A true crying shame too, because the non-profits where I work had loved Suse 9.3 and Suse 10 and were ready to move to Suse Enterprise for their desktops and servers, but I cannot trust an organization, (Yes this means you Novell) that will allow politics to reign over good software engineering.
It is absolutely clear that the only reason that “zmd” was included in Suse 10.1 is to appease a political faction within Novell.
Many other things are very impressive about Suse 10.1, but software installation is virtually impossible, always unreliable. I will keep Suse 10 on my laptop as I have been very satisfied with it, but I will have to look for a new distribution for my main desktop and potential customers.
If you think I am the only one having issues or making shit up, look at what some of the most talented developers in our community have to say about zmd:
http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2006/05/suse-101.html
http://jamesots.blogspot.com/2006/05/ziprugenypp.html
http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/2025
Anyone who has used Suse 10.1 for more than a few minutes will see that it is clearly still at the early beta stage. It might be very impressive to get XGL running but what good does that do if I canmpt maintain my desktops and servers by installing, removing or updating software in a timely, efficient and reliable manner?
One last thing, kerry and beagle do not work reliably or consistently. Most times, when I try to do a search kerry informs me that the beagle daemon is not running and asks whether I’d want to start it now and next time have it autostart. I say yes to both but it never works.
As a beta tester and a member of the apt4rpm mailing list (which is now as good as dead), I have to agree with you that some choices feel politically motivated.
For instance I asked for synaptic to be included again, but it didn’t happen. Instead we have now smart-gui which is utter rubbish (but Smart itself is very good)
I also asked for Gutenprint 5.0.0-rc2 to be included.
They replied “We will include it when it is final”
Now this is ridiculous: as if they had never included beta software before. In the meantime Gutenprint has been available for Debian testing and Mac OS X for a long time now. SUSE users, on the other hand, will have their recent printers unsupported.
As to package management, I advise everybody to use apt/smart instead.
You know what really hacks me off?, these dumb reviews who cannot get it through there thick head that libdvdcss is illegal, Mp3 has patent issues.
Every friggin time we get this crap about xine bring crippled and I get sick of hearing it, just add the installation sources and your done.
Yes RPM install through YaST and YOU is broken (long story) but it’s going to be fixed, get smart packager.
Ah yes, instructive to look over the modding on this thread. Another fine example of the work of the semi-literate morons who now make up so much of the membership of OSNews. Unable to accept or formulate anything other than herd opinions, and lacking the skills to tolerate, analyse and respond to arguments other than their own, their modding now consists in giving a 5 to whichever boring right-on sheep seems to be leading the flock and minus scores to anyone who dares deviate from the party line.
The result is the same in almost every thread now. Ubuntu + Novell + Gnome rah rah rah, let’s censor out anyone who disagrees.
Bye, I won’t be visiting OSNews again. From the modding, at least, the view of reality on offer here is pathetically limited and immature. And if the OSNews admins here are too idle to do anything about it, I guess they’ll be left with the website they deserve.
Telling it like it is (-1)
But seriously, just ignore the modding system and set your threshold at -5. I do…
Dont let the demons take you!
It seems to me that SUSE is trying to be what Ubuntu is/will be. The Ximian people want kick ass GNOME desktop with all the latest cool Mono stuff and refinements (e.g. Tango) but Ubuntu have been doing this for nearly two years now. To me (as a OS X user), it seems that SUSE was ‘the KDE distro’ but they have a politics problem – the community expect SUSE to be a KDE but Novell seem to focus on GNOME stuff.
Why can’t they do what Mandriva, Ubuntu, Fedora, RHEL, MEPIS and whatever else did – choose one main desktop environemnt. Stick with it and make sure it is damn good. If they didn’t have all this rubbish about creating too good bloated desktops, SUSE 10.1 might have been good.
Talking about giving people what they want – I’ve seen so many comments about ‘1 CD installs’. Why can’t they do a ‘GNOME Edition’ or ‘KDE Edition’ on two CDs each? A common first CD for the base OS and then the desktops?
/me prepares for flaming 🙂
It seems to me that SUSE is trying to be what Ubuntu is/will be. The Ximian people want kick ass GNOME desktop with all the latest cool Mono stuff and refinements (e.g. Tango) but Ubuntu have been doing this for nearly two years now.
Yer, and they’ve also been doing it without developing everything in Mono, which just sucks the resources out of your system and produces anything but stable software. If Novell are serious about this thing I just wonder what’s going to happen when they get this stuff into their paid enterprise software, and just how cheesed off existing customers, especially those using still using Netware, are going to be.
Additionally with Ubuntu, you get the same base distribution with a focused Gnome or KDE system on top, with proper integrated KDE and Gnome tools, and those tools are getting better all the time.
It strikes me that Novell, with the help of some internal politics, have destroyed an already working distro that made users and customers happy by rewriting things that will never work in their favourite pet technologies. Even worse, it will take many years to completely stabilise this stuff, and perhaps even longer to write the new things they desperately need. If you read many Novell blog replies by many Netware customers (and these are people paying serious money – not free Suse users) you’ll see that they’ve picked up on this as well, and they’re not happy at all. This isn’t a good sign.
As somebody said, Novell has the tendancy to ruin great stuff. I was sure this wouldn’t happen with SUSE and the Ximian stuff. I can’t see why they have rewriting stuff.
The stage is being prepared for what has to be the biggest OS battle within 10 years. The contenders:
1. Windows Vista – we all know about it
2. Mac OS X 10.5 Lepoard – we all know nothing (apart from Boot Camp)
3. Ubuntu Dapper/Edgy – looking damn good
4. Fedora Core 5 – not bad but a bit bland compared to others. Core 6 should be pretty good.
5. SUSE 10.1 – is this a contendor?
1 – 3 are all serious contenders in my mind and it looks like they will all hav some impressive technology. 4 – 5 may do well but not really on the big stage (more like a hobbyist’s backroom!) 2006-2007 will be a defining year in the computing industry.
“5. SUSE 10.1 – is this a contendor?”
“4 – 5 may do well but not really on the big stage (more like a hobbyist’s backroom!)”
Those are only your opinions. There are plenty of people who disagree with you.
It is *a fact* that when SUSE is released even the 280 KB torrent becomes difficult to download.
Read this review if you want:
http://www.madpenguin.org/cms/?m=show&id=6899
It is not every day that somebody like Adam Doxtater gives an operating system a rating of 9.5/10 and, quote:
“Target Audience: Everyone
Features: Excellent
Performance: Excellent
Hardware Support: Excellent
Usability: Excellent
Management: Excellent
Documentation: Excellent”
and:
“It’s seriously tempting me to switch our main systems to SUSE and that’s the truth. At no point in my career, no matter how much I liked a distro when I reviewed it, have I been tempted to migrate, but today is a new day my friends, and I see SUSE in my future. I highly recommend trying it out if you haven’t already. It’s well worth the time. I’d say it’s well worth the money…”
I have been following Adam Doxtater for years now and reading that was extremely surprising to me.
As to me, together with many other people, I fail to see what makes Ubuntu so much better than many other distros in the top 20 at Distrowatch.
But when my friends, new to linux, ask me to install it on their computers, I have no doubt what to install: SUSE Linux.
Personally I like also Kanotix very much, but I don’t see it as quite adequate for a newbie.
Edited 2006-05-30 00:17
A few days ago I installed SUSE 10.1 on my notebook, using net-install – and it worked perfectly and detected everything, apparently also the embedded wireless (I havent tested it though, since I have no access-point).
But, there’s a few things – replacing the YOU with the Zmd was initially not a good move (I really do not know why Novell uses Momo for these utilities (Like Beagle and Zmd), unless they want to make some future Linux<->Windows LAN integration beast) – I do not know if it is the Momo framework or the tools themselves, but they’re very slow and buggy).
Also it seems like I’m unable to install Maplesoft Maple – no matter if Java 1.4.x and/or Java 1.5 is installed. With SUSE 10.0 it installed smoothly and I was happy as clown.
But all-in-all SUSE 10.1 is rather good, not as fast as 10.0 but not slow as some people say (Running on a AMD-Barton+2500, R9000Pro, 768MB Memory and a few Seagate 7200s). If Zmd and the other problems mentioned gets fixed it will be close to perfect – the only alternative to SUSE in my county would be something like Debian+ROX, slack, Darwin, voyager or something really weird
but it does appear buggy, and I see the corporate Gnome-camp rot beginning to appear.
why wasn’t Taskjuggler included in the default install?
why does Gnome have an easy-configure button for XGL and not KDE?
would 10.1 have been that much more stable if they had concentrated on KDE rather than try and have two great DE’s?
let’s see what happens with 10.2…………
I spent couple of hours getting the XGL to work on my x86_64 box with nvidia. I did not have a a good experience, sometimes the borders would disappear. I installed KDE and GNOME. For some strange reason I had to fire up Gnome to get XGL to work in KDE. There are so many changes that you have to make to get XGL working that the best you can do is reinstall to get a normal system.