“Since Apple announced Leopard last year during WWDC, MacOSXRumors obtained reports on two major features in the next release of Mac OS X. The first is a redesigned Finder making extensive use of Spotlight and the second is the inclusion of virtualization software. Recently sources have been indicating that Leopard will feature easy collaborative work throughout the OS. The main idea is that it will be possible to declare a document as available for collaborative use over a network or Internet. Users who want to work on this document will be able to connect and work simultaneously on it. Modifications made by each user will be updated in real time for all connected users.” Authenticity up for debate, obviously.
Leopard To Bring Collaborative Documents?
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2006-06-09 12:55 pmel3ktro
Nobody said that it is a “new idea” but it would be a new feature to Mac OS X and I could imagine that Apple could do this right, although I don’t know – personally and for myself – if I’d use/need such a feature.
2006-06-09 1:03 pmhenrikmk
If it’s implemented on a system level, it would be far easier to use MacOSX in enterprise environments and build enterprise apps. XGrid-adhoc-like networking between such apps would be nice.
2006-06-09 1:14 pmkfet
I would guess “throughout the OS” means the technology will be made available out of the box for application vendors, just like Spotlight is (which is much more powerful than what you see exposed in the default UI).
SubEthaEdit is just a text editor, while Leopard (if the rumor is true) promises to make this available everywhere a developer finds it useful.
You can’t just edit “any file” colaboratively. For example, how could the OS allow two people to share a photoshop document at the same time, without some kind of code change to Photoshop itself?
So this begs the question – it’d have to be an Apple format document, but which one?
Pages is a home-consumer program, colaborative editing is not of much use. Maybe the long rumoured “Numbers” program? Or maybe they just mean enhanced application sharing?
While Vista keeps you guessing what Microsoft will remove next, Leopard keeps you guessing what they’re going to add next.
2006-06-09 2:16 pmtertiary_adjunct
Umm…simple. Adobe would have to include support for this OS feature into their products.
The collaborative document editing feature that I mention for NeXT (http://www.osnews.com/permalink.php?news_id=14855&comment_id=131902) had shown multiple users editing a graphics file as well as text documents.
It is likely that no current application would be able to do this. This is a new OS level feature, so new applications would have to add support for it. If this is a true rumor about a new feature, than it will be much easier for ISVs to create collaboration tools in their software as the OS would provide APIs for this sort of functionality, rather than having to write collaboration capability from scratch for every new application, which would be difficult and is likely why you don’t see it very often. Giving the OS support for this capability will make it much simpler for ISVs to give their apps tools for collaboration on Apple’s OS.
The main idea is that it will be possible to declare a document as available for collaborative use over a network or Internet. Users who want to work on this document will be able to connect and work simultaneously on it.
The idea is nice on a first thought, but I wonder if this won’t bring up some security problems and – more important – some messed up documents.
– If everyone works on the same document at the same time, how will they ensure that the structure of the file won’t get messed up?
– What will happen if two users change things at the same time on the same line? Which users changes will be applied then?
– And what will happen if one user has his system / application crash during the collaborative use of a document? Will all apps crash, too? Will the file get corrupt?
I guess that some thorough testing will need to be done on those “problems”. I have no idea how stable and secure it is, but the idea behind it is quite nice, if implemented correctly.
If this happens it will be probably an update to the core data feature set, any application that uses core data functions will be able to work across bonjour network, if the file is updated by remote, all clients receive a message and update themselves. Easily done in Core Data + Objective-C, actually this makes so much sense that I can’t imagine why it isn’t happening right now…
A while ago I saw a video of Steve Jobs demoing this functionality on a NeXT box when he was CEO of NeXT. This, from the sounds of things, is just another feature from NeXT that has been incorporated into OS X. For those of you who don’t know, NeXT was the company that Steve Jobs started when he left Apple years ago. Then Apple bought NeXT and Steve became CEO of Apple. OS X is largely based on the technology that NeXT developed for their operating system, just with a remodeled UI and some features added/removed/changed.
If I find that video again I’ll post the link. It was actually a pretty cool feature.
Here is the video I mentioned in my other post.
It is pretty old: http://youtube.com/watch?v=j02b8Fuz73A
I’m sure that anything in OS X will be considerably more advanced than what we seee in the video, but this is likely something similiar to what OS X may be offering.
The relevant features start at around 13:30 into the video.
I wonder, how long will it take Microsoft to announce that this type of feature will be in Vista and then remove it because of time restraints?
FWIW I don’t think that MacOSXRumors is a reliable site.
2006-06-09 4:09 pmsomebody
I’m no MS fan (damn, I hate their guts), but…
I wonder, how long will it take Microsoft to announce that this type of feature will be in Vista and then remove it because of time restraints?
They did that already long before Apple. This has been mentioned in all the press releases for new Office and their new server platform.
So please stick to the truth. And by the way, collaborative services were present in some applications from the days of monochrome monitors. This idea is not MS or Apple invention, it is older than those two probably.
2006-06-09 4:16 pmThe Baron
For the humor impared, what I said above was a joke and not meant to be any serious commentary about microsoft or apple. So please don’t get your knickers in a twist, k?
Collaborative work on documents won’t be such a great feature outside of the few and far between Mac only companies out there.
Google webapps will make a difference for students using webcafe and uni networks who definitely need to collaborate on group assignments but a Leopard only framework ? A bit like trying to use the nice video chatting features of OSX with the rest of the XP using world….
2006-06-09 3:05 pmmikemcc
Think at the ‘department’ level rather than the ‘office.’ Two people in Marketing tweaking the copy of a press release; two people in your Media group updating separate ad revenue of the same spreadsheet. You only need platform homogeneity out to the boundary of your logical tasks.
I hope they revive the SOUPS Project. You either know what I’m talking about and worked at NeXT or don’t.
Nice. Leopard is something to look forward to! I really wish Apple opened up OS X to run on other machines that are not Apple machines. I mean all these recent amounts of 8 x 4s from AMD and them switching to 65 nm by the end of this year and huge drops in power requirements etc etc, are really making me consider of having building/buying a brand new top of the line machine…but sadly enough only XP seems to be the choice to put on it….64 bit XP maybe but still there are a lot of problems with driver support and softwares not running and so on. And with Vista looking really bleak at the moment, the only alternative is OS X…and not any disrespect to the Linux group but I dont like Linux….period. So the one OS I want to run on the one machine I want is not there….so sad 🙁 The only way I see is for Apple to start using AMD processors and build the machine of my dreams with OS X installed….or for them to release OS X for other machines as well. Neither of the above is goign to happen I guess.
i didn’t see any collaborative features talked about in that NeXTSTEP video. There was the idea of linking objects so that external copies are not just pasted into documents, but references to them are kept so when the original is updated, the document changes as well, which is a nice concept, but requires a lot of application support (ie, can’t really use it right now or with existing apps).
I thought they already did (http://blogs.msdn.com/wcm/) for the next interation of Office (alright it’s not explicitly for the OS, but almost as good as for most). Methinks both MS and Apple might have noticed what Wiki, Google et. al. are up to, after all we mostly don’t normally tend to write documents for ourself now do we 🙂 . Hope they keep it open, likely to be pretty, but ultimately pointless if they don’t.
It’s not in any video. It’s definitely in-house, SOUPS that I’m referencing. It was nearly completed for its scope, back in 1995. Now if someone brought it forward with today’s XML world then we shall see.
Microsoft has collaboration technologies in Office and OneNote.
They have shared searching, whiteboard, and application sharing in Messenger and have had this for at least 5 years (shipped with XP in 2001).
They have Netmeeting and ConferenceXP (Google it).
And Vista has “Windows Collaboration”.
From Page 207 of the Windows Vist Product Guide:
5.03 Windows Collaboration
Collaboration is becoming more essential than ever to organizational productivity and success. Yet, there are many obstacles to overcome around collaboration. For instance, a network is not always available—you just cannot share a file with your team members in some meeting rooms or café without network. Projecting is another challenge. A projector is not always available, or even if you have a projector, some documents (Excel or Word) do not project well. Windows Collaboration, the new collaboration feature in Windows Vista, is a simple, yet powerful tool that enables face-to-face collaboration among small groups of Windows Vista users at anytime and anywhere. Whether you are making a PowerPoint presentation or revising a spreadsheet, Windows Collaboration enables face-to-face collaboration for as few as two or as many as 10 people over wired network, an ad hoc wireless network or a wireless local area network access point. And connections are established quickly, easily, and securely. One person simply initiates a session in Windows Collaboration, which then allows designated users to share the same view of an application and to collaborate with each other in real time.
Meet Anywhere, Any Time
Windows Collaboration uses two different modes to link users’ machines: either by connecting through an already existing network such as a wired or wireless LAN, or by connecting over an ad hoc wireless network. An ad hoc wireless network is perfect for collaboration when participants do not have access to a network infrastructure; for example, in a hotspot-less coffee shop or airport. Using Windows Collaboration on an ad hoc wireless network opens up a range of new and more flexible collaboration possibilities.
Windows Vista Product Guide—Beta 2© 2006 Microsoft Corporation Page 207 of 313
Discovering Sessions and People Near Me
Discovering and joining sessions is a breeze using the built in Sessions Near Me feature. People can easily discover the sessions occurring nearby on the local network, or on private “ad hoc wireless” networks. To join a session, the user must simply enter the password for that session. Also, Windows Collaboration takes advantage of what is called People Near Me. People Near Me allows you to check who is available on the network you are using—and invite them to join your collaboration group or another People Near Me enabled application. People Near Me makes explicitly inviting a person to a session simple and easy. Remote participants can be invited via e-mail or a file, if your network supports IPv6 connectivity. You can simply start a session in Windows Collaboration and send invitations via e-mail. When the participants get the invitation, they simply need to click it and type in the password.
Make Meetings More Productive
Sharing files with groups is much easier with Windows Collaboration than with traditional methods such as paper handouts, sending files through e-mail or Instant Messaging, uploading files to common network shares, or passing around a USB key. Windows Collaboration allows groups to instantly start a shared common session that enables multi-party file sharing. Unlike standard presentations, where changes can only be made from the presenter’s PC, Windows Collaboration allows the person who initiated the session to pass control to other users, who can make revisions to the presentation even while the original is being broadcast from the computer of the person who is making the presentation. When one member of the group makes a change to a file and saves it in the session, those changes are replicated immediately to everyone in the session. Any Microsoft or third-party application or file can be broadcast or streamed to a group using Windows Collaboration. By broadcasting OneNote®, for example, a group instantly has a shared whiteboard space that can capture ink, pictures, text, etc, which can be saved and shared with the group. And multiple files
Windows Vista Product Guide—Beta 2© 2006 Microsoft Corporation Page 208 of 313
of any type can be broadcast to the group, by anyone in the group.
Windows Collaboration—and the entire peer-to-peer developer platform in Windows Vista—are designed with security in mind. Invitations and participant authentication are handled by using certificates and through the exchange and verification of public and private key pairs between the session creator and other attendees.
Windows Collaboration or Live Meeting?
Both Windows Collaboration and Microsoft Office Live Meeting help people communicate and collaborate in a rich way, and you can take advantage of both products for different purposes. Live Meeting is designed to help people collaborate beyond different locations, across corporate boundaries, and on different networks over the Internet. Live Meeting operates on a server infrastructure and can support up to 2,500 concurrent users, enabling larger, more formal meetings that are often planned and scheduled in advance. It is browser-based and can be used with any Windows operating system that supports Live Meeting. However, it is not the out-of-the-box solution with Windows Vista, and it also requires an Internet connection. Windows Collaboration is a peer-to-peer application that operates directly between personal computers, so there is no server infrastructure involved, even when using the application over a corporate LAN or WLAN. Also, Windows Collaboration is designed to enhance and support spontaneous and informal small-group collaboration (up to10 concurrent users) anywhere, anytime. Lastly, Windows Collaboration is delivered as a built-in feature of the Windows Vista operating system, and participants just need to run Windows Vista on their PCs.
and Apple already had this in OS X and Microsoft was adding this to Vista then the entire world would be screaming about Microsoft copying Apple.
I read this verbatim in Wikipedia before I saw it today on OSnews. What’s the deal here?
…even now, with shared access to development and design documents, whenever I suggest a change the typical response is “good idea! Why don’t you go and make that change in the word document.”
Now taking it to a higher level everyone will be responsible for one more task and bothered by every little typo, etc. Whatever happened to technical writers?
O.K. Just joking around here… don’t go nuts on me.
The source is “MacOSXRumors” widely know in the Mac afficionado community for making stuff ENTIRELY (as no inside source at all) up, in order to up ad revenue.
If you track the rumour sites, you know of macosxrumours reputation.
Nothing to see here…
Truly. The veracity of these sites’ rumours can be measured by the number of Apple lawsuits against them – and since this site has no lawsuits pending…
Edited 2006-06-10 13:26
This would be using Apple’s Bonjour technology, along with Spotlight.
Making the workplace more productive.
Edited 2006-06-09 12:34
SubEthaEdit has been doing this for years. I think since Jaguar. Sure, its only in your local Bonjour (ne Rendezvous) network, but definitely not a new idea.