Techgage reviews Sabayon Linux, and conclcudes: “After taking an initial look at Sabayon, I have mixed feelings. Though, I feel more joy when using it than anything negative. One reason this distro may stand out above others is because it takes a difficult base distro, and opens its arms for new users who want to experiment. When it’s all said and done, you will have a full functional Gentoo machine after the installation, topped off with a Sabayon coat of paint. What a great looking coat of paint it is.”
Note that Sabayon Linux has nothing to do with the homonymous user profile manager for GNOME: http://www.gnome.org/projects/sabayon/ The just happened to pick the same name.
Well, there’s so many versions of Linux out there, that they’re bound to start running into naming problems.
I’m surprised YAPISDT* hasn’t been taken yet.
Seriously, how is Linux supposed to make progress among normal computer users with all these hundreds of distros available? It’s not about choice; it’s about ego-inspired vanity. Choice would be to have maybe a dozen or so distros; what we have now leads to paralysis and confusion.
It’s bad for all concerned; remember a couple of weeks back when one guy couldn’t even pay his bills because he’d quit his job to code yet another linux distro! This is crazy. It’s like it’s an addiction. Just like many people seem to have to try every single last distro, just in case they’re missing ‘the big one’!
When this kind of behaviour takes over your whole life, you should know you have a problem..
* Yet Another Pointless Implementation of the Same Damn Thing
Exactly. Sabayon doesn’t do anything new. If you want Gentoo without compiling, just install it from GRP packages (which are community-supplied binary tarballs) – no need to create yet another distro!
Well, there’s so many implementations of cars/computers out there, that they’re bound to start running into naming problems [VW Rabbit, Proton, and Apricot being three of the cheesier ones I can think of offhand].
…
Seriously, how are cars/computers supposed to make progress amongst normal commuters/scientists/gamers with all these hundreds of models available. It’s not about choice, it’s about ego-inspired vanity. Choice would be to have maybe two dozen makes; what we have now leads to paralysis and confusion.
It’s bad for all concerned; remember a couple of weeks back when one guy couldn’t even pay his bills because he’d quit his job to code yet another linux distro! This is crazy. It’s like it’s an addiction. Just like many people seem to have to try every single last distro, just in case they’re missing ‘the big one’!
When this kind of behaviour takes over your whole life, you should know you have a problem..
Does the fact that there are stupid drivers make ALL drivers, or the idea of cars, stupid? No? Exactly. There ARE only a few leading distros/car makers/OEMs. People using other ones are probably doing so for a good reason, or at least for a reason that THEY think is good (for example, they might like Volvos for their tank-like construction, or a kit car because they want to build it themselves, or Gentoo because dependency hell is banished).
Your analogy would work better if you had attempted to justify a particular manufacturer – Ford, say – simultaneously designing, manufacturing & marketing hundreds of different models.
I suggest to you that they don’t do this for a reason.
Another problem is that (unlike with cars) there’s no way of making all the superflous rubbish disappear. No market mechanism. You can’t stop the kids in the basement – people even send them money so they don’t need to work for a living!
I fail to see how the Linux/OSS world remotely resembles being a single manufacturer. It’s more like each distro is a manufacturer unto themselves building from commodity parts.
Your analogy would work better if you had attempted to justify a particular manufacturer – Ford, say – simultaneously designing, manufacturing & marketing hundreds of different models.
Not really, because I can’t think of a single manufacturer that has built a car that requires expertise in THEIR car alone. OTOH, this is normal practice in the computer world – stupidly, it even became normal practice in the Unix world.
However, for the sake of your argument, GM makes umpteen different makes of car, each of which has umpteen different models. In the States, I believe some of those “different” makes and models are actually just rebadged versions of the same car.
I suggest to you that they don’t do this for a reason.
Which is?
Another problem is that (unlike with cars) there’s no way of making all the superflous rubbish disappear. No market mechanism. You can’t stop the kids in the basement – people even send them money so they don’t need to work for a living!
THAT can’t last for long. Besides, in the UK at least, I can tell you that it’s perfectly possible to be a serial swindler/bungler, serially bankrupt companies, be serially convicted, and STILL be able to set up YET ANOTHER company under a SIMILAR NAME (e.g. Acme Ltd. or Acmee Ltd.) As for successful but crap companies, don’t even get me started.
You know a lot of people just make the distros for fun or their own personal needs, and just end up releasing it to the public. I agree that it does clutter up the choices available to a newbie, but there are distro quizzes and other handy tools now days to help someone decide. Plus most people trying out Linux wouldn’t even take a look at Sabayon; it’s a niche distro and people normally stay with the big 7 when first starting out.
So really, it doesn’t do any harm, choice is good, etc. etc.
These distributions do nothing to harm the community and when one such distro implements some new and interesting ideas and starts to grow in popularity it can only be positive, competition drives innovation as much in the FOSS world as in the world of proprietary software.
I was trying to understand what Sabayon had to do with Gentoo, actually.
Bad name choice
it is SabayonLinux and not Sabayon.
cheers.
I might try it for my laptop. Though how “za-ba-gli-own-ee” got mangled to “Sa-bay-on” is beyond me.
put a pig in a dress, but linux is still a server OS.
A new coat of paint won’t hide the deformities underneath.
An ugly woman with caked layers of makeup doesn’t become “hot”. She’s still fugly.
Yep. Just like with women, “hot” is not the same for everyone.
Think of X windows as tequila and that analogy almost works.
I haven’t tried Sabayon yet, but it sounds like just what I was looking for. I’m always annoyed by distros that, after being installed, are still lacking many important apps that I use (which means a lot more downloading). Having it all on one DVD would be great.
However, I’m still a little sceptical of anything based on Gentoo (all that compiling nearly drove me nuts when I tried it). Hopefully, Sabayon will eliminate most of the need for that (provided you don’t try to update the system with emerge -uD world).
Edited 2006-08-11 13:40
If you can read your compiler’s output you need a faster machine.
I’ve been a Gentoo user since the beginning. Before devfs support, before ACCEPT_KEYWORDS, and certainly before GRP. The project has come a long way, but it hasn’t really innovated outside of its roots. For one thing, in 2001, I figured that if Gentoo would be around in 2006, it would have a binary package repository in addition to the Portage tree.
What Gentoo is missing is a way to harness the power of all of those compute cycles as thousands of Gentoo users compile packages from source. I have two proposals:
PortNet: Gentoo users are encouraged (but not required) to install and run a distributed computing client (e.g. SETI@Home) that uses your spare CPU cycles to help build binary packages for new ebuilds. A cluster of central servers will emerge -b (build package) new ebuilds as they bump to stable using multiple PortNet clients as a distcc cluster. All builds use global CFLAGS and USE flags, regardless of local configurations, so that’s what you get when you install binary packages from the PortNet repository.
PortCache: Gentoo users are encouraged (but not required) to build Portage with a USE flag that enables the user to share the results of their local build with the Gentoo community. All emerge processes will imply -b (build package), and when the package is complete, it will be uploaded to the PortCache along with the metadata indicating which USE flags the package was build with (if PortCache doesn’t already contain a matching package). Users can ask emerge to query PortCache before building an ebuild, and if it already contains a package built with the desired USE flags, they can skip the build and install the binary package.
Both of these ideas require centralized resources, especially lots of storage and bandwidth. But something like this would really make a big impact on a lot of Gentoo users.
Now that I think about it, PortCache could be made much lighter by decentralizing the system and taking a P2P kind of approach. Gentoo users who opt in send metadata only (ebuild version, dependency versions, USE flags, and some sort of client ID) to a central server when they do local builds. Other users who opt in query the server for matching build metadata when they run emerge.
If there’s plenty of matches, the server will use something like netselect to find the closest matching peers and instruct those machines to use their spare CPU cycles to build a package from the already merged version. First one done notifies the server, which terminates the package builds on the other machines and arranges a connection between the two peers. After the transfer and merge is complete, the new system’s metadata entry is added to the server.
There are probably some security and portability issues. You know, the devil is in the details. But I this might actually be a reasonable system.
No I can’t edit… still.
Butters, it seems we think somewhat alike. I thought about doing something like this I called “Genweb”.
It’s similar, but different, use distributed machines to compile and match packages, etc.
http://www.shacknews.com/ja.zz?id=12542014
I mean just look at that menu, it covers the full screen. One of the reasons why the slab menu is much better.
Man, on one hand, people bitch about how GNU/Linux is all about choice, and if you don’t like something, “use the source”, fix it, contribute, and then on the other hand you complain about the number of distros, and that this one or that one doesn’t add anything new, please, wake up and smell the coffee.
This is GNU/Linux’s big selling point, it’s like evolution, all these distros, vying for your attention, each one doing something different, trying to gain mindshare. There’s something for everyone, from your Grandmother to the biggest kernel hacking geek in the world, and everything in between. That’s the power of opensource, and Linux.
Survival of the fittest
Man, on one hand, people bitch about how GNU/Linux is all about choice, and if you don’t like something, “use the source”, fix it, contribute, and then on the other hand you complain about the number of distros, and that this one or that one doesn’t add anything new, please, wake up and smell the coffee.
Yes, but it’s different people in each case!
No, it’s not like evolution. For evolution to occur, the unfit distros (>90%) should have died off by now. But because they are open source, most of them linger on for years, clinically dead, but nobody has the guts to turn off the life support.
Harvest the organs and pull the plug.
Some distos have died, off, others have gotten better, in one way you’re right, it’s not like evolution, because all of the distros can swap code and components, making each one better, but in another way, it is, lots of distros have gone the way of the dinosaur, and others, have came to the forfront in the last few years. All this just adds up to more choices, and I like choice. I like the ability to pick a distro based on the person or organization I am installing it for, sometimes, it’s Ubuntu, sometimes it’s Fedora Core, even Windows.
There’s a litany of dead Linux distros. The difference is that with proprietary OSes, very few of them have survived because of technical merit.
If you look at all the distros the only one that is really all about choices is Gentoo, the rest are a narrow subset by comparison.
We’re talking about ALL the distros, not your pet favorite. (and calling distros like debian narrow is just silly) as a whole, the entire GNU/Linux ecosystem gives you hundreds of choices, easy enough for everyone to find a favorite distro, which works the way they want
“put a pig in a dress, but linux is still a server OS.”
Welcome to 2006, you will enjoy it here. I can do most anything on Linux that you can do in Windows. I assume you feel the same way about Mac OS X, because it also is quite limiting compared to XP.
“I mean just look at that menu, it covers the full screen. One of the reasons why the slab menu is much better.”
As with any KDE installation, that’s completely customizable.
“Seriously, how is Linux supposed to make progress among normal computer users with all these hundreds of distros available?”
Choice -is- a good thing. Some people may enjoy the benefits of Gentoo, but don’t want to suffer with the advanced way of doing things. Sabayon for instance, takes care of a lot of the difficult parts and allows novice Linux users a full chance to play around.Imagine if there were only 10 cars or trucks on the market to choose from.
Yes there are a lot of distros out there to choose from, but it’s unlikely that a ‘noobie’ will go after a smaller distro like Sabayon. Distros will borrow ideas from other distros, and that makes them better.
“There’s something for everyone, from your Grandmother to the biggest kernel hacking geek in the world, and everything in between. That’s the power of opensource, and Linux.”
I agree completely.
Edited 2006-08-11 15:21
As with any KDE installation, that’s completely customizable.
Customizability should never be taken as an excuse for bad defaults. There is nothing wrong in letting the user have lot to chose from, but the default settings should better be something that fits the average user (among targeted user group).
Using the K-menu as a repository for all available GUI apps will fit a very limited group of users, most users will have to remove half of the menu items to get what they actually need for every day work.
Or even better, make the default configuration fit the least experienced users in the intended user group. If you provide choises, the more experienced users will be able to make whatever changes they need as long as the choises are there to choose. The opposite doen’t work, as less experienced users may not have the knowledge to turn things off, to make the system less complicated for them. If they could, they would be experienced users, with no need to do so.
In this respect, the new Novell menu works much better as it makes it easy to find whats in there, while still giving more exposure to the most commonly used applications.
Edited 2006-08-12 00:58
The only detractors you’ll find are the ones who:
a) Have never tried it and make assumptions based on what other people are bitching about.
b) Tried it, ran into a snag, and threw their hands in the air and quit.
Gentoo (or Linux in general for that matter) isn’t for either of these personality types, IMO.
Gentoo isn’t exactly a distribution, which is what most people fail to understand. Gentoo is a “meta” distribution. You don’t get a standard, pre-compiled set of specific packages to install. What you get is a fabulous management tool called Portage. Using portage, you build the system that *you* want.
Coincidentally I just re-installed Gentoo on my laptop last night. I’ve done it several times on many types of different hardware so I’m familiar w/ the process. I was able to have a bootable, running system in about 45 min. I “emerged” xorg in about 2.5 hrs. and had a base graphical system. This morning I ran “emerge gnome” and when I get home tonight, I’ll have a Gnome DE waiting for me to get started on.
Once you get over the fear, there’s really nothing that complicated about Gentoo.
The biggest *benefit* is the learning experience. If you want to learn what makes Linux tick…and how things are put together, Gentoo is somewhat of a right-of-passage for people interested in Linux. The bonus of using Portage to compile your system/applications is; it’s just faster. I’ve heard arguements on both sides but I’ve seen it w/ my own eyes – I’ve never had a distro that ran faster than Gentoo on *any* hardware for me…period.
The only detractors you’ll find are the ones who:
a) Have never tried it and make assumptions based on what other people are bitching about.
b) Tried it, ran into a snag, and threw their hands in the air and quit.
Gentoo (or Linux in general for that matter) isn’t for either of these personality types, IMO.
Indeed, and long may they be blessed with Windows, and we with their absence.
Once you get over the fear, there’s really nothing that complicated about Gentoo.
Agreed again.
The biggest *benefit* is the learning experience. If you want to learn what makes Linux tick…and how things are put together, Gentoo is somewhat of a right-of-passage for people interested in Linux. The bonus of using Portage to compile your system/applications is; it’s just faster. I’ve heard arguements on both sides but I’ve seen it w/ my own eyes – I’ve never had a distro that ran faster than Gentoo on *any* hardware for me…period.
Slackware’s quite fast, iirc, but generally, you’re right. Unfortunately, I sometimes wonder if the world s not mostly made up of people for whom the word “learn” (in connection with anything, not just computers) is held in lower contempt than the word “paedophile”.
I want to point out that Sabayon Linux (formely known as RR4 and RR64 Linux) was one of the first Gentoo X LiveCD ever created. That’s not something new, that’s something started since 2004:
http://snipurl.com/usbr
Edited 2006-08-11 15:30
http://shots.osdir.com/slideshows/slideshow.php?release=711&slide=7…
I may be retarded, but is anyone else trying to download this distro and having a hard time finding the version that is reviewed here?
It will be available at the end of the month… the 26th~.
I think you’re wrong. As stated in the official web page:
“The most awaited Sabayon Linux 3.0 RC2 (both x86 and x86-64 release) will finally hit the Internet before the 14th of August. ”
greets
Edited 2006-08-11 19:04
It was that originally… it’s been bumped to the 26th. Apparently it wasn’t reflected on their website yet.
Didn’t know that. Thanks for the info, I’m really looking forward to giving it a try.
whow! finally, a distro that can match Ubuntu – in terms of having weird names
seriously now, the post takes on a distro just because of a single feature. i believe that is a major disease in the linux/OS world. imagine a whole new distro/OS is advertised just because of a single exclusive feature which are sometimes no better than fancy ones?!
Developers for Windows have a more focused attention on trying to make softwares work for a single platform. On the contrary, many linux developers focus their attention on trying to make a new distribution which focuses on an exclusive feature. i think this is waste of technical skills/time.
Windows tell users to pick their software and install it on windows. Linux, on the contrary, tell users to pick a distro which has this kind of feature/software. Windows offers immediate productivity. Linux, for this case, offers unnecessary decision making.
making a distro do everything needed for an OS with all the fancy and imperative features must be the work of the OS developer – it creates disappointment to users to sacrifice a good feature advertised by distro A because he needs more of the features of distro B. and, surprise! Microsoft is quite determined to make good on this aspect!
i think this is waste of technical skills/time
Which is irrelevant. You don’t employ those developers, you don’t pay those developers, you don’t own those developers. These developers do what they think they have to do. The code is available, they have the skills and they don’t take away from you.
That you want to jam the square peg of the Windows model into the round hole of the GNU/Linux philosophy, is none of their concern. If choice frightens you, Microsoft caters to people who want one version of everything.
You don’t employ those developers, you don’t pay those developers, you don’t own those developers. These developers do what they think they have to do. The code is available, they have the skills and they don’t take away from you.
and they are causing confusion to newcomers
That you want to jam the square peg of the Windows model into the round hole of the GNU/Linux philosophy, is none of their concern. If choice frightens you, Microsoft caters to people who want one version of everything.
most of average PC users wnat one version of everything when it comes to OS. their choice is more of which software to use on a trusted platform, and not an OS specializing on a software/feature. FYI
I’ve always thought of RR4/RR64/Sab as the Gentoo equivalent of the Debian based Kanotix. An installable Live-CD that takes you right into a snapshot of the distro, and on top of that you get a tweaked kernel, some custom maintainance scripts, extra hardware drivers and some nice apps not normally in the reps (like Google Earth in this case, or Skype with Kanotix). This is all great, for me at least. I could never stand having to recompile a gig of programs on Gentoo just because I forgot to specify some CFLAG 🙂
That said, I would like some more info:
* What does the optimisation look like? What CFLAGs are used? 😉
* Is there a binary repository so that one can have incremental upgrades between releases?
* How many people are actively maintaining the distro? How many iso downloads/users?
* Forums, wikis, mailing-lists? Is there a healthy user community?
* Can I have sleep/hibernate on my f*****g broken old HP NX7000?
2003-2005 were the years of the Debian (live) distros – I wonder if 2006-… will be the year(s) of the Gentoo (live) distros (Kororaa also comes to mind)?
Windows
ver 1,2,3,3.11,nt,nt4,win95,win98,win2000,winxp
win2003,winx64,vistax86,vistx64
Macos
ver 1-9 with alot of version updates between them
mac osx has several animal updates around 5 i think
Linux
rpm: mandrake,suse,redhat and with there children distros
deb: debian,ubuntu and with there children distros
source: lunar,gentoo,rock,source mage, lfs
DEfinition children distro:
A childern distro is a project idea of a single or multi person apperation that choose what should be included within the choice of package management or distro with there own thoughts and customization of such
Ever os system has updates and versions just like lunix but with linux its about peoples ideas what a os should be and what is included in it. So be it there is alot of flavours of linux but its about personal choice.
Not sure if I want a Gentoo based system, but that KDE theme is just great! Anyone who knows where to get it without installing Sabayo first?
I find it absolutely beautiful.
However, having destroyed my main Linux partition when I tried the Gentoo GUI installer, I am not looking forward to repeating the same experience: Sabayon Linux’ installer is based on the Gentoo one.
Fabio Erculiani (the developer) is aware of it. So I am waiting for his go ahead before I install Sabayon.
– The installer of Sabayon Linux will be a slightly adapted version of Anaconda from FC5
– The release date is 14th of August.
“The installer of Sabayon Linux will be a slightly adapted version of Anaconda from FC5”
Great news! So I suppose it should be absolutely safe.
Well, no partition is completely ‘safe’. It’s up to people to use their brain and make sure they are not going to overwrite their partitions. But, I found the Sabayon partioner to be one of the easiest I’ve ever used.
It’s much better than the partitioner included in the x86 Live Gentoo disc.
“Well, no partition is completely ‘safe’. It’s up to people to use their brain and make sure they are not going to overwrite their partitions.”
I have installed hundreds of distros and virtually every OS which works on a PC. But the Gentoo GUI installer is seriously buggy and destroys logical partitions.
Even distrowatch says so
http://distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=major
I see it like many have said about (manufacturing companies) and [car modes.]
For example, we have (Toyota), but we also have (Lexus), It is Toyota company, original, and Lexus, the Toyota company luxury or more options.
Here we have (Debian), but there is also (Ubuntu)
(Debian)
[Knoppix}
{Kanotix}
[Xandros]
(Ubuntu)
{Kubuntu]
[Xubuntu]
[Edubuntu]
[SimplyMepis]
(Slackware)
[Vector] – Speed Demon
[Zenwalk} – Simple
[Volta] – Custom
[SuSE] – Traitor
-but it has become a good distro
Then you have based on:
Red Hat
Gentoo
Independant
Nice screenshots, explanations