After nearly three months of work, the SkyOS team has released a new build of their operating system. Changes include, but are not limited to: desktop compositing working with every graphics card, USB 2.0 stack (with keyboard, mouse, mass storage, printer, card reader, hub, USB-CDROM, and other drivers), SATA drives support, printing stack (about a 1000 USB and network printers supported), and CD/DVD recording support.
at this rate SkyOS is gona move out of the “hobbiest” catagory and into a full fledged full featured OS. great job Robert and team!
Robert and his guys are doing progress in speed of light
As a beta guy, i will d/l and test next week. 3 thumbs up, guys!:)
you doing it? You are so fast!!! You should have been working on Haiku. The fact that SkyOS is proprietary is a problem for me, but you are fantastic guys. My sincere congratulations. Are you planning to go the BeOS direction? Partial or full compatibility? Are you POSIX compliant?
Are you planning to go the BeOS direction? Partial or full compatibility? Are you POSIX compliant?
A quick trip to the FAQ would’ve answered those, but anyway:
-they’re mostly but not 100% POSIX compliant.
-The API is inspired by BeOS (just like the filesystem) but it has it’s own API. They’ve hinted they could implement compatibility layers with other OSes (BeOS’ API wouldn’t be that far off), but realistically speaking I wouldn’t wait for it.
“-The API is inspired by BeOS (just like the filesystem) but it has it’s own API. They’ve hinted they could implement compatibility layers with other OSes (BeOS’ API wouldn’t be that far off), but realistically speaking I wouldn’t wait for it.”
Actually the api looks much more windows-inspired. At least, looking here http://www.skyos.org/documents/api/html/group__wgstyle.html
I can’t find anything even remotely resembling the beos api. Especially because it looks C based and not C++ based. See all those HANDLE parameters ?
Just that statement shows you’ve never looked at the skyos api. BeOS and skyos api couldnt be any more different. BeOS is object oriented (C++), skyos is not (C).
I would say the skyos api more resembles windows, only much more user friendly.
The Skyos site is very slow in responding here. Anyone else have the same problem?
Same here, but it may not be there fault. Since MS is providing a free key for all their official Beta testers that submitted bugs for Vista the last week on the web has been very slow in general for me. I know some of the testers and they are all busy DL’ing the ISO. Hopefully things will return to normal this week as most of them snag the file. 🙂
Is SkyOS 5 EVER going to be released? It’s been in “beta” for about 2 years. I’m not certain we’ll ever actually see a final release.
Yet, could you say that the progress (printing, mono, desktop compositing, USB, Networking, etc…) accomplished these last 2 years aren’t worth the wait ?
You have to understand that you have to bring features and polish for an Hobby OS to become a serious OS with at least a tiny tiny tiny %
(yet sufficient to support a twelve-arms, three headed one man coding-army to live from it’s diabolic developing skills)
of being commercially viable.
Learn patience, young padawan !
Please. It’s not about patience. It’s about calling it a beta way too early.
so…. it’s just about a word ? used a bit too early ?
Damn… let’s call it the SkyOS treta programm then.
And let us, treta testers rejoice !
There has just been a great release
Now, we can move on.
And thanks for the BSD and the MIT code and to the liberal licenses that allow people to reuse code in they proprietary projects. We are very very grateful.
Man…nowadays, people tend to make difficulties with very insignificant matters…
As a paid SkyOS beta tester, let me just say: What-f’ing-ever. It was just an observation. Only in the tech field does somebody make a valid observation and people smash him down with straw men.
That’s not the facts (which were indeed valid : SkyOS hasn’t had a _public_ release since the skyOS 4 days, though it has had lots of major beta release these last two years…maybee much more than windows or linux ?) that prompted me to reply to your post, that is the way you wrote/said them.
When I read your posts (the first one and the third one. The second one is quite okey
, I got the feeling that they were on the “angry or not that polite” side.
Didn’t you just use the f*** word ? ^_^
Just by curiosity…
You are a member of the beta team and so you got all the betas you paid for and you will get more in the future.
Now, when you wrote “Is SkyOS 5 EVER going to be released?”,
what will you gain with a release of SkyOS 5 that you don’t already have ?
You write “I’m not certain we’ll ever actually see a final release.”
Well..what could the SkyOS team do to prove to you that they are steadily going towards a feature complete SkyOS release ? porting java ? open office ? ZFS ? lol
Aren’t USB, Networking, Printing, Monoing sufficient proofs, that the SkyOS team is working earnestly towards your goal… that is “the skyos 5 release, that you seemingly yearn to”
I can sense anger, young padawan ^_^, but I’m at a loss to understand you. Enlighten me… 😀
Well..what could the SkyOS team do to prove to you that they are steadily going towards a feature complete SkyOS release ? porting java ? open office ? ZFS ? lol
Doing those things would only delay a release, not help it.
I guess the “proof” people want is a list of goals that have to be reached for a 5 release, and the status of each one of those. I don’t know if SkyOS has that available at the moment.
Indeed, SkyOS doesn’t have such a list (to the best of my knowledge)…
I believe that it exists though… only in Robert’s head for the moment (^_^) which is alright for me as I trust him to go in the right direction.
There have been attempts to get an updated roadmap for SkyOS and to have a taste of what the future holds for SkyOS but they haven’t succeeded as Roadmap don’t seem to go along with Robert’s usual way of doing things :
He puts on the roadmap the features that he just implemented (I just love Robert’s definition of a roadmap
hehe ..sounds more like a preview/taste of the next beta release to me ^_^)
Anyway…it’s not that hard to guess what features SkyOS should have for a 5 release :
Consider that
1) Robert will want to sell it.
2) If it isn’t near perfect/with the features everybody expect from a modern OS, people will complain and it will cost Robert money in support service
I would say that SkyOS should be on at least on par with Windows 95 (with the advantage to have a few better thingies like BFS, query search, etc…).
A few thing are still lacking (though there has been great progress recently) :
Wifi, Scanner, laptop (batteries) support, etc..
Boy, I had several things to say to add to a real discussion, but I can’t take anyone seriously who continues to refer to me as “young padawan.”
I’m out.
Dear Adam Scheinberg.
Don’t mind me, and please do add interesting things and constructive criticism to the SkyOS thread
I come here to read interesting posts from people smarter than me and it would be a welcome change from the usual
“why is it closed source, when will it ever release, why should we pay, it uses GPL things so it should be GPLed, etc..”
Fair enough, Lakedaemon.
SkyOS 5 has been in beta for years. My question is – where is the feature list? What are the driving features holding back the final release? With each successive build, it appears there are a boatload of NEW features. Absent, it appears, are the fine grained tweaks and stress testing qualifying it for final release. I think it would be exciting to see 5.0-final out the door and a roadmap for 5.1. Instead, we’re seeing what appears to be whatever Robert feels like working on.
This is fine for a completely hobby-class OS. But for an OS that is sold commercially, I think it’s the responsible thing to do to say: OK, this is the final build for the 5.0 series, now we’re going to mess with it again.
If your OS never has a stabilization point, it’s never going to be more than a whim for most. At what point can you trust your OS with something that is always cutting edge.
Edited 2006-11-19 21:21
I agree with most of your points here.
>SkyOS 5 has been in beta for years. My question is – >where is the feature list?
It would be nice to have a “list of features to have to get a final release” on the SkyOS website with a % of completion (a bit like the classpath or the Haiku status thing). It wouldn’t need to be very precise as it’s only purpose would give the people a general idea where SkyOS is going for 5.0
Something like Haiku’s “R1 will be a Beos R5 replacement” or Risc OS “we want to code an open source replacement of windows”
It could be as vague as “SkyOS 5.0 final shall happen when everything possible under windows 95 should be possible under SkyOS” or better be a list like
USB 1.1/2.0 support
Printer support
PPPA, wifi, etc…
> With each successive build, it appears there are a boatload of NEW features
True, they are trying to catch up with what is expected of a modern os.
>Absent, it appears, are the fine grained tweaks and stress testing qualifying it for final release.
Maybee it will happen when Skyos becomes a good enough replacment for your everyday use OS.
I don’t think that there are many people using SkyOS intensively at the moment. (doesn’t matter if SkyOS isn’t stable more than 4 hours if you are only using it 10 minutes a day
)
AS there is still a lot of catching up to do..it can wait a bit.
>I think it would be exciting to see 5.0-final out the door
True, but it’s still a bit too early for that.
Before this beta, this would have been unthinkable (no usb, no printing, no sata support ? bahh)
But now, who knows…
>we’re seeing what appears to be whatever Robert feels like working on.
True too. But well… I’m not complaining for what the last harvest brought ^_^
>This is fine for a completely hobby-class OS. But for >an OS that is sold commercially, I think it’s the >responsible thing to do to say: OK, this is the final >build for the 5.0 series, now we’re going to mess with >it again.
Yeah…But….I feel that the day SkyOS 5 final is released is the day where SkyOS change from an “hobby os” to a “commercial OS”.
You don’t want to launch a commercial venture before you have a product that you can market and sell (because you start loosing money).
See : if SkyOS had gone commercial when they released the first SkyOS 5 Beta, they would have lost a hell of a lot of money these 2 last years.
If we are to believe the experience of the deceased Yellowtab, selling an OS is a very tough job. You really really want to be prudent, not to screw things up.
> this is the final build for the 5.0 series, now we’re going to mess with it again.
This will be real good once there has been a first (non-beta) release.
>If your OS never has a stabilization point, it’s never >going to be more than a whim for most. At what point >can you trust your OS with something that is always >cutting edge.
True. SkyOS is in development, so that can’t be helped. But I don’t think that’s really harmfull for now as, businesses won’t give it a chance for a few years yet…
(after the final release…it will be a different matter though
)
I thought Robert dropped the “5.0” versioning, and started calling it simply “SkyOS build#xxxxx”?
From that, my guess was that the next official release would be more like a “1.0 Final” than a “5.0 Final”.
Maybe I’m wrong, but it seemed logical at the time..
Lakedaemon: “…Risc OS “we want to code an open source replacement of windows””
Do you mean ReactOS?
Anyway, I think your points are valid. Push an OS to public release that is not ready and you end up with very unhappy customers and you will spend all of your time responding to their complains and never have time to fix the problems, let alone adding new features.
Yes.
Sorry… My mistake. Indeed, It is “ReactOS” and definetely not “Risc OS” whose aims is to recreate a free and open implementation of windows xp…
By the way… I wish folk the best of luck to the ReactOS folk. It would be real nice to have a free and open binary compatible windows clone.
^_^
The way you present your thoughts makes you come off as a joke… people referring to you without derogation is impressive to me.
Are you speaking about me ?
Well, Could be and I wouldn’t mind anyway ^_^
As…well..erm…if I’m a joke, that means I make people laugh…which is a good and refreshing thing and makes me happy. ^_^
As for the way of presenting thoughts :
I’m a maths teacher (hence the madness and the sadistic nitpicking)
AND a member of the famous devilish french empire
(hence the horrible grammar and the ortographic impiety :p)
And now… using the “hence” and the “nitpicking” words have made me happy for the day (and my highschool english teacher would probably shed tears if she saw me post on english-speaking boards… well…if those arsenic pins I forgot on her chair hadn’t killed her 20 years ago ^_^)
No, it was in response to that brilliant staffer.
I know SkyOS is for sure a good playground but it has practically no future. A propietary and commercial desktop OS these days is going no where. Moreover they are 100% using opensource software (1000 printer drivers? Cups anyone?) so why do they stay under a closed source and commercial license? are they seriously hoping to sell SkyOS copies when it will be released? I think that SkyOS has great potentials, it’s not another distro, it’s a full integrated dekstop OS from the ground up with good ideas…so please opensource it!
You must understand that SkyOS is Robert’s baby. He creates it because he loves to. He has no interest in open sourcing it because it’s his and he enjoys being the person who does 99% of the work. Whether or not it has a future as a commercial OS is irrelevant to him. It’s his hobby and love.
Gawd if I hear, “SkyOS is Robert’s baby” one more time … i swear …. I so hate personification
what baffles me is 99% of the people that seem to have a beef with SkyOS not being open source arnt even coders that would help with the project given the change anyways. it seems to me people seem to be mad just because they can be. because they are on a open source roller coaster cuz other people are. it just seems silly to me to be upset that SkyOS is not open source just for the sake of being against non open source projects. if you would like ot contribute (aka you are that 1%) please contact the dev team and ask how you can help. if you are the 99% then “sometimes it is better to remain silent and thought a fool then to open your mouth and remove all doubt”
Edited 2006-11-19 14:38
I don’t see anyone who’s mad, just someone who thinks the closed source status means the project has no future. He didn’t sound at all upset about it.
it just seems silly to me to be upset that SkyOS is not open source just for the sake of being against non open source projects.
Yes, there is some truth there. But there is another reason to promote open source. What if, God forbid, Robert should die? Or suffer something that makes him loose interest? Everyone who adopted it would sooner or later have to go through the agony of switching.
By comparison, even if, God forbid, something should happen to Linus, there is total access and there are enough developers and there is enough investment that Linux would carry on.
I haven’t bought a beta copy of SkyOS yet, but I intend to just for the fun of it. But I’m not going to depend on it for anything important unless it goes open source.
What if, God forbid, Steve Jobs or Bill Gates died? Would MacOS or Windows disappear? Of course not. There are measures in place to ensure that would not happen. It is no different for SkyOS.
It would be nice to know what those measures are… For OS X and Windows, there are massive companies in place with a very definite architecture that everyone knows about… For SkyOS, there’s Robert… And sometimes you handling business relations and posting on the forums, when you’re not busy doing other things. Or TomaszD, managing testing, but who frequently only knows about new features and bugfixes at the same time as everyeone else on the alpha or beta teams..
And though there may be a provision in place in case Robert, God forbid, dies, what happens if he just wants to stop working on SkyOS and decides to kill the OS. He’d be well within his rights, and his abilities, to do so.
You shouldn’t just dismiss peoples concerns by comparing SkyOS to Windows or MacOS.
And I wouldn’t.
Rather, I was simply making an observation against the idea that the only way that software can survive is if it is open-sourced. Playing devil’s advocate, as it were.
No one is saying that the only way software can survive is if it’s open-sourced. What I hear people saying is that there are certain risks inherit in using closed source software, particularly when it’s of the size of SkyOS. These risks include having the software abandoned when/if the lead developer dies, gets bored with the project, or otherwise preoccupied with life. That’s definitely a legitimate concern.
Adam
EDIT:
By the way… In regards to having measures in place in case of Robert’s death (again, God forbid), you do say that SkyOS is no different than MacOS or Windows. As an active tester, and someone close to the SkyOS community (IMHO), I really would be interested in knowing what those measures in place are.
Edited 2006-11-20 17:32
Are you still around Kelly? What are the provisions in place to ensure that SkyOS continues, even if Robert should become unable to continue it?
Thanks for all the hardwork ! We appreciate ! ^_^
What’s next for SkyOs ?
Their FAQ says that SkyOS uses no GPL code in the kernel. So how about BSD or similarly licensed code?
It would be nice to know if they’re using BSD licensed code in their system, and if so, how much? The BSD license doesn’t require they say, but it would be nice to give credit where credit is due… if it is due…
Last time I checked, there was no BSD or MIT code in the kernel itself. Robert has said he coded it from scratch. There are tons of how tos on how to build a kernel online so the knowledge is out there. SkyFS is based on OpenBFS which is MIT but I am unsure exactly how it interfaces with the kernel.
It amazes me how Robert and his small circle of helpers produce all of this and how quick they produce it. Well done Robert and helpers!
SkyOS is getting developed so fast because most of the features are copied and pasted (and beautifully integrated, I admit..) from other sources like Haiku OS and BSD.
SkyFS = (Be File System + something different)
USB Stack = Haiku’s usb stack debugged, polished and plugged in SkyOS.
Etc etc etc.
p.s. i’m not a troll. Go see yourself.
SkyFS = (Be File System + something different)
SkyFS is OpenBeFS with some minor modifications which enabled it to be used with GRUB. If you care to subscribe to the openbeos m-l (it’s still called openbeos), you’ll see regular bug reports from Robert going back to the Haiku guys. The Haiku team *really* appreciates Robert’s work.
USB Stack = Haiku’s usb stack debugged, polished and plugged in SkyOS.
Proof?
How base-less posts like this get modded up is beyond me.
Tanner, this is a blatant lie. SkyFS is based on BFS (though much improved and incompatible with BFS) and no-one is saying it isn’t, but:
<TomaszD> RobertSze2, I just read in osnews “USB Stack = Haiku’s usb stack debugged, polished and plugged in SkyOS. ” Is that true?
<RobertSze2> nope, USB stack has nothing in common with haiku, just check haikus USB stack which is C++ where SkyOS USB stack is C. Only parts of the UHCI/EHCI (which is not a part of the USB stack and indeed a rather tiny part) driver may be simliar. (haikus UHCI driver has quite a few bugs, which I will let them know soon. )
Why would you post a lie?
Why would you post a lie?
Thats been done since day one in reference to SkyOS. Dunno why… Its really weird IMO.
Anyways, SkyOS looks pretty sweet. I’ll probably join the beta team shortly.
I would have gone from 6659 to 6670.
From what I’ve seen on the website, SkyOS seems like a really great OS. And it’s progressing very rapidly. I don’t care it’s not open-source, though. To me, a nice, polished and working OS is more important than being able to access the sources.
Sure – and then comes someone and takes it away. I used to be a verry much in love with BeOS. After BeOS was gone I said to myself: Never, ever again a proprietary system. Nowadays I enjoy Debian very much – sure, there is no BFS or some other nice things, but I can cope with that. It’s not important anymore.
Robert told me on irc the other day his general to do list before release: Full usb support, full integrated printing (I think more integrated with cups like Mac OS X does), an office suite and some work on the UI.
Firstly, Good work to the SkyOS team.
I’ve followed this project closely, and I’m waiting for it’s perfection WHEN IT’S DONE! The good thing about software is that it’s always room for improvements. What I’ve seen and read about SkyOS 5 in the two years of development, is that it’s using it’s time to evolve into a GOOD operating system. “the longer the merrier”..
Like OpenOffice, Mozilla Thunderbird & Sunbird.
Scanner support (twain).
A full fledge Media Player with support for sync with iPod/Zen/whatever…
SkyOS has thunderbird already.
While it does have Thunderbird, it’s pretty buggy, especially when dealing with IMAP accounts.