Microsoft wants to make its Windows operating system available on the One Laptop per Child notebook computers, OLPC chairman Nicholas Negroponte said at the NetEvents conference in Hong Kong on Saturday. “I have known Bill Gates his entire adult life. We talk, we meet one-on-one, we discuss this project,” said Negroponte, vnunet.com can reveal. “We put in an SD slot in the machine just for Bill. We didn’t need it but the OLPC machines are at Microsoft right now, getting Windows put on them.”
Please tell me exactly how these poor kids can call techsupport?
That’s exactly what I was wondering.
How will those kids know how to fix their hosed Linux OLPC?
“ROM”. The OS is in ROM if I’m not mistaken. So if you ‘hose’ the OSes, you reset the unit. and if it lets you fsck up config files to the point it wont boot, then it should have an option to boot without loading user config changes. If it doesnt, then it is a stupid design.
Edited 2006-12-05 20:18
I was imagining some poor kid being stuck at the GRUB command line.
The article isn’t too informative. They only state that they are making windows run on it. No word on why they do it, if it will be the default and such things.
And I thought Gates offered Windows before, but was rejected due to openness and hardware requirements? Any details on the mindchange?
New market? Microsoft losing ground in most areas?
This is a snowball effect happening – as more and more kids learn to use computers and more and more of those kids learn to use other operating systems, as it’s almost a requirement nowadays, the more and more Microsoft will continue to lose ground that it had firmly held during its monopolistic days when nothing else existed in a more public arena.
Not to mention that Billy himself stated this was a fruitless endeavor in not so-many words. Now that he’s being proven otherwise, he wants in. He doesn’t like that very much.
It really isn’t a “mind change”. Despite large technology leaders like Intel and Microsoft making disparaging remarks, Nicholas Negroponte has continued to work with Microsoft on this unit. In this report:
http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/6022.html
he indicates that he is continuing to work with Microsoft, and has even delivered prototype boards for them to work with and make drivers for a Win CE version.
So I guess this is no surprise to me (though it did take me a few minutes to dig up that older reference from 6 months ago).
Any details on the mindchange?
How about millions of potential users?
Edited 2006-12-05 18:03
“How about millions of potential users?”
I meant the mindchange on OLPCs side, not Microsofts.
the whole thing is to distract from olpc. currently, olpc will include linux, and in a few years time, when millions of children around the world has built up experience using/programming them, who will then work on microsoft software ?
Dream on.
The world is more firmly rooted in realism than that.
the other few hundred million users.
õ_o
They are going to have to really strip down Windows to make it work on something like the OLPC laptops. They’re not exactly powerhouse computers and having a full featured version of Windows would probably bring it to its knee’s.
They’re not exactly powerhouse computers and having a full featured version of Windows would probably bring it to its knee’s.
Doesn’t it do that on full-powered computers anyway?
they will probably put a WinCE on it and offer it to 3rd parties for integrating with custom net/cf app stacks.
> They are going to have to really strip down Windows
WindowsNT 4 will fly on OLPC config. The distributive was only 40MB.
I forgot how much diskspace required, but there are many useless things what could be removed.
Windows Embedded is highly componentized and already runs on a wide variety of hardware. Getting it to run on OLPC will be a snap, in my opinion.
Screen shots of OLPC running Linux is here – http://www.thecodingstudio.com/opensource/linux/?q=node/47
Rather interesting how “it’s not what it was designed for” swings depending on situation.
Just last week OLPC people boasted about how “this this is only for collaborative learning and leave us alone with our GUI decisions”
I am rather glad UI competition on OLPC is kicked into higher gear. Possessiveness always leads to inferior products. Yey for competition!
If it isn’t needed, why add it to the total cost of the hardware? Just to make Bill happier?
Well, the laptop users can easily share data with SD cards..
I guess Bill G not only wanted it just for fun to be in their but pointed out some good reasons…
“Well, the laptop users can easily share data with SD cards.. ”
Is not a laptop for normal laptop users. It’s for kids. It also has wifi, so they can share data through the network. There’s no need to put useless things that only make it less-cheaper than necessary. It may only cost a couple of bucks more to add it, but in the end governments will buy millions of them, and that would be thousands for a feature not needed at all. The manufacturing process needed to add that SD slot would certainly need power, so there’s an environmental issue too.
Well, back then when I was a kid I used lots of floppy disks to share stuff with my friends.
Another reason seems to be that there is no other good device for permanent storage in this device?
Please stop talking about “useless things” unless you can proove it is really useless. I think nobody here would _not_ agree with you about not putting useless things in this laptop…
Well, back then when I was a kid I used lots of floppy disks to share stuff with my friends.
Well, back when you and I were kids, they didn’t have these highly portable PCs with built-in wirelss mesh networking.
right
But if we where kids in a third world country, would we carry our very own worthy technical equipment with us everywhere we go?
It’s unbelievable that there are still people talking about the OLPC project being for kids in the third world – no, it’s for the “second” world, countries like Brazil, Egypt, Thailand etc. Thats a big difference!
“Well, back then when I was a kid I used lots of floppy disks to share stuff with my friends.”
With network access who needs such a media today? Plus SD cards are not cheap, considering who are going to use the laptops.
“Another reason seems to be that there is no other good device for permanent storage in this device?
Flash is there for a reason.
“Please stop talking about “useless things” unless you can proove it is really useless.”
I can only say “common sense”. It doesn’t prove anything, but how can you prove that having an SD slot helps at all? It’s not for free, if you ask, it costs money.
“I think nobody here would _not_ agree with you about not putting useless things in this laptop…”
Hmm.. too much overuse of negations and I’m already lost in your sentence. Whatever you meant, I think you cannot prove this point either. Saying “almost nobody” would be more to the point. Not all people will agree with me, and not all will agree with you, no matter how much you think you are right.
“I think nobody here would _not_ agree with you”
==
“I think everybody here would agree with you”
.. about not putting useless things in this laptop.
IE, if you’re right and it’s really useless.
So basically, I didn’t want to say that everybody agrees with me, or that I “am right”.
With network access who needs such a media today?
“Hey , how does this router thing work? It doesn’t have a pull cord to power it and the nearest power socket is 200 miles away!”
Anyone heard of digital cameras?
Are you stupid or just stupid? This is a laptop for 2nd world countries, for guys that don’t have normal access to a cheap computer. How do you expect they will get a digital camera with an SD card? They would probably won’t have books or enough cloth and you quickly toss that shit?
Man, you don’t think twice before posting nonsense. Get a clue.
Are you stupid or just stupid?
I prefer to think of myself as someone with an imagination instead of an irrational hatred of Microsoft like you.
How do you expect they will get a digital camera with an SD card?
They could buy it. Or borrow one. Or rent one for the day.
An SD slot would also be useful for a shared computer. Private files could be kept on the SD card.
“I prefer to think of myself as someone with an imagination instead of an irrational hatred of Microsoft like you. ”
And who is talking about Microsoft? I’m talking about and SD slot? Why you always have to start talking about Microsoft? Dude, you have an agenda with them or what?
Has media lab at MIT ever delivered any useful product despite getting millions in funding?
I think Mr Negroponte is a professor living in ivory tower building. The realities of this type of socialist program are well known. When nick is asking commitment from governments to order 1 million laptops without any commitment from his side to deliver technology/usefulness or if at all a final working product, then there is smell of a self serving attitude. So far MS has not made any comment but Nick assumes that Gates is his buddy and windows 3.1(!) will be installed on all OLPC?????
he is proven flicker mind and media lab has robbed many asian countries with their kite-flying ideas..
read
http://simpact-india.blogspot.com/2006/06/olpc-technology-scam-of-c…
Edited 2006-12-05 18:32
Very intersting link.
The OLPC has always been entirely an emotional project. It void of any realistic value. Even on /., it gets plowed for being such a waste.
The project is only a waste if you believe people are a waste.
It’s not about being emotional, do the math. If there are 10 programmers now, and there are a 100 programmers later….you have more programmers.
Supply and demand. Programming becomes cheaper. Not every child is going to learn computers. But some of them will take to it, some of them will be great at it.
Some of them will be better than you at it.
You cannot stop progress. Better to ride the next wave…and the next wave is cheap labor coming from 3rd world countries….anything that can be done online.
It’s great for those economies, as these will be new opportunities for income and integration into a larger world economy.
In the end its great for anyone….
Not that I totally disagree with you, but you do make it sound as if these laptops are being handed out so the kids can get their MCSE (okay, bad example but I can’t name a Linux certification), and become teleworking outsourced microserfs.
Bear in mind that these rollouts won’t in all cases go hand-in-hand with a reliable or fast Internet connection. Dialup is still the norm, and sometimes a luxury, even in 2nd-world countries at which the laptops are targeted. The main point of the mesh wifi is seamless intra-group communication and sharing of resources. The laptops will help massively with efficient spreading of information, but much of this will come from offline sources.
It’s also rather depressing to think of it as a tool for enabling the youth of developing countries to become better-qualified but still mistreated wage-slaves for the West. This isn’t an unreasonable prediction (sadly), but I’d like to think the project’s goals are a bit more lofty than that. Maybe improve the competitiveness of these countries in their own chosen arenas, say, so they can put an end to Western industrial exploitation? Now that would be cool.
“Microsoft Windows Fundamentals for Legacy PCs (WinFLP) is a Windows-based operating system designed for enterprise customers with legacy PCs who are not in a position to purchase new hardware. WinFLP provides the same security and manageability as Microsoft Windows XP SP2 while providing a smooth migration path to the latest hardware and operating system.
Windows Fundamentals for Legacy PCs (WinFLP) requires:
A minimum of 611 MB of free hard drive space. Actual requirements will vary based on your system configuration and the applications and features you choose to install. Installing all optional components requires 1151 MB of disk space. These requirements are reported on the screen as you select options in the Setup wizard. Additional hard disk space may be required if you are installing over a network. Also, you should reserve additional space for future updates and service packs.”
WinFLP is based on XP embedded.
Never thought I’d say/do this NP, but I modded you back up for that one.
C’mon people! The guy makes a 100% informative post, no bias, no C-word editorial, and you *still* mod him down; what, because of his track-record, or was it really (as NotParker himself often suggests) just because you’re a bunch of crazed zealots who can’t handle open discussion? I’d prefer to believe it was the former, but *neither* is a valid reason for modding down.
Thom, Eugenia — once again the readership prove why peer-review does not work and should be either scrapped or actively audited by an unbiased moderator.
or was it really (as NotParker himself often suggests) just because you’re a bunch of crazed zealots who can’t handle open discussion?
Bingo!
Dang!
See, Havin_it? You just played right into his (fallacious) notion that all those who counter his FUD do so for irrational, religious-like reasons.
The WinFLP post was on-topic, informational and courteous (and wasn’t FUD), but most of the rest of his posts are. You have reinforced him into dismissing all criticism of the FUD posts…
See, Havin_it? You just played right into his (fallacious) notion that all those who counter his FUD do so for irrational, religious-like reasons.
It isn’t fallacious. Its true.
So anyone who disagrees with you is motivated by irrational, religious-like reasons?
And then you wonder why people say they can’t have a rational debate with you…
Never thought I’d say/do this NP, but I modded you back up for that one.
C’mon people! The guy makes a 100% informative post, no bias, no C-word editorial, and you *still* mod him down; what, because of his track-record,
I agree with you, Havin_it. I myself have modded many off-topic/abusive posts by NotParker, but honestly there were absolutely no reasons to mod this particular post down. You did the right thing in modding him up (and I might actually have done this too if I had had any mod points left).
or was it really (as NotParker himself often suggests) just because you’re a bunch of crazed zealots who can’t handle open discussion?
Here I must object to your words. Please don’t make generalizations like these – it was *one* user who modded him down, please don’t lump all of us NotParker critics with him, you’ll only end up fueling NP’s self-righteous delusion that pro-Linux advocates all think the same thing and act the same way.
Thom, Eugenia — once again the readership prove why peer-review does not work and should be either scrapped or actively audited by an unbiased moderator.
Actually, no, it doesn’t prove that since *you* modded him back up. On the contrary, it proves that peer-review moderation *does* work, because you (a peer) were able to correct a bad moderation with your own mod points.
I myself have modded many off-topic/abusive posts by NotParker
Be honest archiesteel, you’re idea of “off-topic” or “abusive” just means stuff you don’t like.
No, my idea of off-topic is posting stuff that has not on topic. My idea of abusive is insulting those you disagree with.
It’s not my problem if your posts so often fall in one of these categories (or both).
No, my idea of off-topic is posting stuff that has not on topic. My idea of abusive is insulting those you disagree with.
Not true. You mod down those you disagree with.
Not true. You mod down those you disagree with.
No, I mod down those who are off-topic or abusive (or spam). This last post of yours is a good example of an off-topic post, and so I modded it down. This response is also off-topic, and people are welcome to mod it down as well.
Try posting less off-topic and/or abusive posts, and you’ll see your score go back up.
… unless Microsoft gives it away.
Microsoft charges large OEMs, like Dell or HP, roughly $50 for each Windows XP license. Because of the costs of the distribution chain, and unavoidable costs like the fact that you’ve got to pay salaries and rent, you can’t stay in business selling a product if your materials costs are $50 and you get less than $100. So the rest of the machine would have to be free. Even $150 is too low for a retail price.
Now, Microsoft might decide to basically give away a stripped-down Windows to the Third World, to head off the threat of several million people running a Linux OS. They can afford to accept less revenue. But if they keep having to do that to compete at the low end, then their revenue is headed for a downward spiral after a one-time upward bump for Vista.
Why couldn’t they give it away? Call it Freedows, strip it down and tune it. Competition is good.
The U.S. Department of Justice would be able to nail them for abusing their monopoly if they gave away Windows like that.
Microsoft has had the MAR (Microsoft Authorised Refurbisher) program where they donate Operating Systems for refurbished computers for charities Low Income Families they had Windows 98 and Windows 2000 pro, Microsoft Works 7 now come January they will be dropping Windows 98 and Works and adding Windows XP Pro and Office XP to the lineup. My business I own donates around 100 computers a year to low income families all thanks to Microsoft making it possible and also to Open Source software such as Open Office and Tux Paint. I originally started the program using Ubuntu Linux but I recieved too many support calls from recipients of the computers because the donated computer was the first on they had in their life and their freinds and family were not familier with anything but Windows (I still offer them the choice though) Ubuntu was kind enough to send all the media I wanted.
At the heart of the project is the potential to equip children all over the world in the poorest areas with a working computer.
If Windows is an option (something 90% odd of the world use) and it doesn’t stop the principle of the project then i welcome it.
Already it looks like these children will have a choice and the ability to get to grips with technology we take for granted.
So they screwed the OLPC project up. Great.
So now every child in the Sahara will need to have a Windows license and wear sunglasses so they don get blinded by that nice little hologram.
Can’t MS keep out of ANYTHING?
As far as I have understood Gates has been very negativ to this project (as it involved linux) and was eagerly prompting for children to carry their(parents) TV sets to school on their head each day, and then connecting the TV set to a Microsoft “SmartPhone”.
If you do not believe me then just do some Googling.
Now that this OLPC hardware has become a reality and has got “customers” even Gates has to accept reality.
Nothing wrong with that.
However it is not either (MS) or (linux) on the hardware.
Still thinking of Bill as the “Greatest Philanthropist in the World history” why does he not simply give a few Bn to the project. (sarcasm).
Isn’t this against the Geneva Convention?
No, it is not, but it will be a crime against humanity.
Now now, they allow *Microsoft* in, but refused Apple’s proposal? I say in this case Apple should’ve tried first. After all, they offered a competing price and the only reason for rejecting was “non-openess”. Microsoft’s proposal is just hideous, and I find the “We put in an SD slot in the machine just for Bill” comment highly alarming for the whole project. So what else have they done/will do “just for Bill” and not for the kids?!
No offence, but I expect Bill knows quite a bit more than you about 3rd world kids and the 3rd world in general – so rather than be negative purely because it’s related to Microsoft, why not save the criticism until some harder facts come out?
The project’s still on-going so they may still let Apple in on it … we’ll see.
Can you please point me to a source where I can find out about what Apple’s proposal was about? (google was not my friend on that)
To all people saying “no way you can put windows in there”…
Windows is just a brand name, and it has been so for 20 years. Windows is definitely doable (and why wouldnt it be done for that platform, from a MS’s POV), just not the Windows you know… I mean none of the 20 different differents OSs you know that are named “Microsoft Windows”.
ReactOS and OLPC Laptop – presentation slides:
http://svn.reactos.org/svn/reactos/trunk/press-media/presentations/…
And this is awesome, because now I can make an Excel spreadsheet with the number of bugs I’ve eaten today, how many cups of bacteria-infested water I’ve drank, how many flies I’ve killed, etc.
Then I can put that data in PowerPoint and make a cool presentation to show the OLPC folks how much my life sucks.
You’re a racist idiot.
– Gilboa
Edited 2006-12-06 10:21
And I have thought the OLPC project have been founded to develop a notebook for third world countries that were already enough exploited by U.S. imperialism? And these guys “put in an SD slot in the machine just for Bill” that makes it more expensive just to be possibly able to run a lean&mean Windows edition on it? So MS can explore new markets for their OS to establish it as new pseudo-“standard” and enslave the people in third world countries by the obligatory MS tax? Or will Microsoft ship their lean&mean goodwill Windows edition with source code; so the third world kids can explore the functionality of a PC respectively the OS?
Only questions an no answers…?
And I have thought the OLPC project have been founded to develop a notebook for third world countries that were already enough exploited by U.S. imperialism?
Yes the notebook has been designed to exploit these people. No more help from the US or anyone else, all humanitarian efforts will cease and we fully expect these ‘hut dwellers’ to start writing software for dirt cheap.
And these guys “put in an SD slot in the machine just for Bill” that makes it more expensive just to be possibly able to run a lean&mean Windows edition on it?
If it were so expensive that it was going to break the bank I’m sure they would have left it out. If the laptop is still coming in at cost then I don’t see the big deal.
So MS can explore new markets for their OS to establish it as new pseudo-“standard” and enslave the people in third world countries by the obligatory MS tax?
I’m sure famine, disease and a general lack of education are a far bigger concern to these people then what operating system a computer runs.
Or will Microsoft ship their lean&mean goodwill Windows edition with source code; so the third world kids can explore the functionality of a PC respectively the OS?
Probably not and while it would be nice I would not hold my breath.
I’m sure the ones interested learning about operating systems will find linux or some other OS to tinker with. The nice thing is that regardless of the OS, these people will actually have the hardware to learn about computing.
Does Microsoft want to run on OLPC or to ruin the free software idea behind the project?
Does Microsoft want to run on OLPC or to ruin the free software idea behind the project?
Probably a little bit of both.
I’d assume Microsoft’s motives would include some PR, and the chance of getting lots of people familiar with their products.
Even if Microsoft give their OS for free (paying for development costs) and subsidise the SD slot, it might still work out beneficial to Microsoft in the long term. It isn’t that much different to the thinking behind the discounted prices they offer educational institutions now – an investment in their future products.
What would happen if Microsoft donated $10 to OLPC for every version of Vista Ultimate they sold before the end of June 2007 – consider the PR advantages of doing something like this…