OSNews reader Alan Gilman writes: “I have made a one page website [URL removed by Alan’s request, because of the bandwidth we generated to his site :] with information about the Linux alternative to Windows known as LindowsOS. Not really for die-hard Linux Geeks, but if you are using Windows and thinking about switching to Linux, LindowsOS makes the job real easy.”
Successfully Using LindowsOS
About The Author
Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
Follow me on Twitter @EugeniaLoli
Oooops… this is the second site that we OSNewsed it seems… :o)
Anyone got a copy of this to have a look at til it’s ‘un-os-news-d’
ah, it is back up!
He’s put up a nice little website. It does show me a couple of things:
1) To an ordinary computer user, who knows nothing or almost nothing about getting free Linux software, the Click ‘n Run Warehouse looks like a great deal.
2) In this case it’s Lindows, but this site shows in a pretty impressive way, that Linux distros such as Lycoris, ELX, Xandros, etc., can be displayed, as on this site, in a way that is easy to understand and possibly compelling to an ordinary user.
Quanta+ is a good HTML editor for linux. It is focused on coding, not WYSIWYG. There is a pay version called Quanta Gold by theKompany.com, or you can use the free version. I don’t know if it is in Click-n-Run though. If you want a WYSIWYG editor Mozilla’s Composer works, and allows you to edit the source if you need to as well.
Lindows is now downplaying the ability to run some Windows programs and is going for the simple to use Linux desktop market now?
The name of the company is meaningless now.
doesnt this thing run as root all the time?
Yes, it runs root all the time but when you use Windows (before XP) or Mac OS 9.x or BeOS, you run “root” all the time.
But with all the hoopla surronding Lindows its nice to read someone having a positive experience. I am not a Lindows fan, but I am a Linux fan.
I believe it does. That just gives it one more thing to have in common with Windows XP.
> doesnt this thing run as
> root all the time?
“root” has a huge history in unix, and geeks tend to see the Lindows root thing from that perspective. But as a personal desktop, I personally don’t see any big deal if users run as root. In most cases, they already run as “root” in their various windows machines, so, what’s the big deal?
If its a business environment, the admin will make sure nobody logs in as root.
Not that I am a Lindows fan anyway, linux isn’t succeeding on the popular desktop yet, and I don’t see anything compelling or even noteworthy on Lindows so far.
i don’t see linux Anything that can come close to suiting my needs.
i see what magic mdk9 can produce, but i’ll probably remove it in 10 minutes. but i played with the RC releases and found it horrible slow to boot and run. do i really need a 3ghz to run linux effectively?
lycoris charges for free repackaged software, so they’re out.
lindows… never tried it since i’m not forking over $100 a year, which costs more than windows. pay to beta test… pfft.
” 1) To an ordinary computer user, who knows nothing or almost nothing about getting free Linux software, the Click ‘n Run Warehouse looks like a great deal.”
I think it’s great that he’s happy with it , I’m relieved actually. My fear is that he’ll feel scandalously used if he chooses to push his Linux skills further.
Re: running as root. My grandmother always told me, “when you’re stupid, you suffer”. That’s the first thing I think of when I munge something on any computer I use that’s mine, ’cause I always login as root.
The “running as root” thing is *the* key mistake made by Lindows, and what makes it even worse is that it promotes the attitude that “running as root is OK if you’re on a single user machine”. Linux in itself is *no* safer from viruses and trojan horses than Windows is. The difference is, however, in the amount of damage a virus or worm can do.
I have configured my system in such a way, for example, that in my day to day work, I only have write access to the files and documents I currently work with. I move all other files into a directory I only have read access to. Now should I by accident execute malicious code (and you don’t have to be stupid to do that) or should the programs I run contain a security leak, I will at worst lose a few files. The rest will still be there untouched — no need to reinstall the system or restore a backup. Furthermore, since the applications I run don’t have write access to the operating system itself, it’s very hard for them to hook into the startup for stuff like keylogging, spyware etc.
Running as root all the time eliminates all these advantages. A single malicious shell script (or binary, if you claim to read and understand carefully every script you run) can fuck up your entire system. It’s this philosophy that has led to the destructive worms of the Windows world. To do this just for a very very very minor usability advantage is extremely stupid and irresponsible. I would go so far to say that it’s a reason to boycott Lindows. Anything that makes it more likely that I get more damn email worms in my mail deserves to be boycotted ..
Xirzon,
Your points are valid. However, running as root is not always needed. Until I upgraded to XP on my PC and bought an iMac G4 with OSX, ALL of my systems ran as “root”, using Previous versions of Windows and BeOS.
In all the time I’ve used computers ( the last 21 years ), I’ve NEVER gotten a computer virus or lost files ( except through my own stupidity ). I always back-up my data ( that which can’t be duplicated ) and run maintenance on my system every couple of months.
So, your statement, “The ‘running as root’ thing is *the* key mistake made by Lindows”, is just your opinion, valid as it may be.
I believe that Lindows.com wants to make it easier for Windows users to move to Lindows.com.
Users that have already spent the money for the XP upgrade or a new computer running XP, are probably NOT going to be interested in converting, at this point in time.
However, at a later time, Lindows.com could release an update that uses the XP/OSX/Unix model of logging in as a ‘User’ with certain priv’s., etc.. This would be the time to target current XP users.
Just my opinion…
Sausage is porting HotDog to Linux. Not WYSIWYG either, but a damn good HTML editor. Only thing that made me boot Windows during months. I hope they’ll port the supertoolz too.
Nice page, and I see a potential for something interesting happening at this site, except for one thing…..
This page, having numerous images, takes really long to load completely, especially over dialup. Maybe the single page could be broken down into smaller pages, each focusing on a different category (Multimedia, productivit apps, internet, etc?)
Yes, Lindows has backed off on its claims of running Windows software under wine. I bought a Microtel PC from Wal-Mart with Lindows on it and I’ve been using it to run it and some of the other Joe User distros like Lycoris, ELX, etc., to see what there is to see in these. (The Microtel, by the way, has laready been through hell and is holding up well). Anyway, Lindows is shakey because of its original claims, its controversial Click ‘n Run Warehouse, running in root, etc. It is not my favorite among those distros – Lycoris is the best, right now, I think. However, people have to realize that, to an orinary user, to be able to get all the software you want (well, almost all you want) for $99 every two years really is a great deal, even if it is actually free software. To Joe User, the stuff people here do with Linux is in a whole other universe.
The thing about running in root. Obviously, Lindows is doing that to try and make it easier to use for the novice. However, having used a distro like Lycoris a lot and trying to see it as a novice would, I don’t think the novice would have a real problem with not running in root. All it would take is a one page explanation of why there is the root account and regular user accounts. And that is the biggest problem with Lindows right now (unless they’ve changed this). It comes with absolutely no documentation, not even a little 20 page manual – nothing. You do get a manual from Microtel that is a geek manual about the motherboard – an ordinay user wouldn’t get past the first paragraph, seriously. And I cannot understand these incredible gaps and gaffs. How can you put out and market a Linux distro for absolute beginners and give them absolutely nothing to go by? It’s beyond belief.
OS X, IMO, provides one of the best solutions to this problem. root is disabled by default. Administrator accounts are created so that you can still make system wide changes. However, before any permanent, system-wide changes can be made, you must enter your login information in again in order to verify your credentials. Also, key Unix system folders (like /bin, /dev, /usr, etc.) are not accessible via the file browser, you can only access them via the terminal, so that keeps users from tinkering with files there. Definitely not a fool-proof system, I’m sure, but secure enough without being so anal that it scares away Joe User. OS X isn’t perfect, but there is a lot of polish Apple has put into it. It wouldn’t hurt a lot of Linux distros to try and emulate some of the things OS X does.
-G
Rude Turnip: I believe it does. That just gives it one more thing to have in common with Windows XP.
Windows XP doesn’t force you to be the adminstrator.
I wonder. Does Lindows knows anything about the desktop? When Microsoft is hiding its C: and A:, Lindows copies it. When Microsoft starts seperating administration accounts from limited accounts, Lindows goes the other way….
For most tasks, I don’t see why something like Mac OS X’s administrator (limited power, but enough to install apps and updates) is out of the question?
linux_baby: “root” has a huge history in unix, and geeks tend to see the Lindows root thing from that perspective. But as a personal desktop, I personally don’t see any big deal if users run as root. In most cases, they already run as “root” in their various windows machines, so, what’s the big deal?
The big deal is if and when Lindows gets a considerable amount of market share, it is in for a lot of security problems. One of the main reasons why many are fleeing Windows is the bad security there, and I don’t see how Lindows is any better.
Plus, for new machines, Windows XP doesn’t force you as “root”/”adminstrator” (IIRC, there was this nice wizard when you first on the computer).
imaginereno: Your points are valid. However, running as root is not always needed. Until I upgraded to XP on my PC and bought an iMac G4 with OSX, ALL of my systems ran as “root”, using Previous versions of Windows and BeOS.
Ahh, someone actually proves my point. While the whole industry is moving towards ONE direction, Lindows wants to go backwards.
—–
My critique
<start rant> Except for price, I don’t see how Lindows could keep up with competition from other Linux distros. Its previous claim to fame, running Windows software on Linux, is now being downplayed by Lindows.com.
So what are they promoting now? Something other distributions provide at a cheaper price: Click N Run. $100 a year for something I could get from Lycoris, Xandros or Ximian at a much cheaper price….. I’m not impressed at all.
Plus, the entire software library, the last I checked, is a bunch of repackaged GPLed software, claiming to be better than their Windows counterparts (nice lie from Lindows 🙂
Plus, Lindows isn’t doing well in the PR department, mostly because of its name. Because of its name, people tend to look down on it, the same way you would look down on a Nike ripoff from some Thai market.
And the bad press it gets….. it is worse that what Microsoft gets. The non-Linux press is bitching on how hard it is to use (the reviews), even though it claims to be perfect for novice, how bad the support it, and how it back down from its previous claim, running Windows software on Linux. The Linux press on the other hand is bitching about root, GPL and the price, among other things.
This is a rare occasion Lindows got some good press. It tried hard to get a mindshare by bashing Microsoft….. well, its PR department is so bad that it didn’t work, even among the staunchest Microsoft critics.
Besides, have anyone notice the screenshots? Isn’t that the ugliest modern OS released? I wonder where are those bashing Xandros about its looks……
PS: I have used Lindows before. I’m not ignorant.
all you windows (and pre OS X) Mac people (and even the BeOS users) need to get past the point that in a multi-user environment (even if you are only using it yourself) root is important and Lindows definitly has it wrong.
if people are going to be using Linux they need to get used to the idea of having a root user and haveing regular users…why not just teach them rather then make them stupid? (which is half of the problem with the windows world)
one reason is for the sake of conformity? if users do get into Linux and they decide to try another distro (a real distro) there is going to be unnecesarily
why not just run in single user mode and have the computer boot directly into the default user, which is already possible in mandrake and probably others.
There is definetly a better way to about it then running directly as root!
The fact that Linux doesn’t have a quality Dreamweaver replacement is one reason why I (and many others I am sure) don’t use it as my main OS. That, along with the lack of a quality replacements for Fireworks, Corel Draw/Photo-Paint (the Linux version that really is just the Windows version running (very slowly) under Wine doesn’t count in my mind), Photoshop, Painter, FilmFX64 and so on (and the horrible Wacom driver in X). Linux is also fairly limited in the area of 3d unless you have big bucks to spend. You have a choice of a few high end packages (Maya, Houdini and XSI), Realsoft3d (nice but lacking some key features and has a small community of users and thus resources/tutorials/plugins and so on), Blender which is Ok but not great and then a bunch of half finished open source 3d apps which are of limited use. But, if I didn’t use my computer for web and 2D/3D graphics work I might actually use Linux full time.
As a long time Wacom tablet user I’d like to point out that while the Linux driver is indeed horrible, the Windows driver is just as bad. It took me longer to get the Linux version working, but the Windows (NT) version requires to be reinstalled every few months ..
Hmm, do I see a metaphor here? 😉
Security concerns are legit when running as root, but in all my years of using Windows, from 3.1 through XP, I’ve _NEVER_ gotten a virus. I’ve downloaded literally millions of binary files from the internet. By not giving my e-mail address out to companies I don’t trust, I have NEVER gotten a virus in my mail, and even if I did, i wouldn’t be dumb enough to run it. I think that not running as root makes sense for idiots that love to download attachments *ahem*aol users*ahem*, but for the windows power user, not having instant access to your entire system seems foolish. My $0.02
“As a long time Wacom tablet user I’d like to point out that while the Linux driver is indeed horrible, the Windows driver is just as bad. It took me longer to get the Linux version working, but the Windows (NT) version requires to be reinstalled every few months ..
Hmm, do I see a metaphor here? ;-)”
That’s the first time I have ever heard a complaint about the Wacom drivers for Windows. I have been using them on NT4, Win2k and XP with an Artpad and now a Graphire for many years. I have not once encountered a problem. Actually, that is a lie, I “once” had to reinstall the driver because my mappings got messed up. But that is once in about 5 years of using Wacom tablets.
I can’t understand how anyone uses a Wacom under Linux. I have been able to get the driver to work, just not well. I have never been able to get anything remotely resembling decent pressure sensetivity. I have played with all the appropriate settings in my XF86Config and nothing ever seems to help.
Even if what you say “is” a common problem, I would rather reinstall the Windows driver every few months than have a basically useless driver under X. Wouldn’t you?
Satori.
From your list of applications you require, you shouldn’t be using Linux :-P.
Besides, all of these applications need to be ported by the people behind it themselves. Why? All the apps you mentioned have so many patents, a lot of needed and useful features would dissapear if ever a clone is made.
But for the web, Linux is good.
So stick with Windows 🙂
Windows power users are most likely using Windows NT/2000/XP, which is a multiuser system. Those who are using Windows 9x is the cheapskates, some gamers and, well, AOL users.
Downloading a virus by a unsuspecting average Joe can always happen, and with Lindows, if it gets famous….. Oh, I rather use Windows XP :-).
Anyway, why would a Windows power user be interested in Linux? Most, if not all, of them uses applications in which no altenative exist on Linux.
Kyle: “I’ve downloaded literally millions of binary files from the internet.”
Literally? In that case, I think it’s safe to say you REALLY need to get out more. =)
I have never been able to get anything remotely resembling decent pressure sensetivity. I have played with all the appropriate settings in my XF86Config and nothing ever seems to help.
Well, this is totally off-topic, but since you ask: I bought the tablet primarily because I want a cordless, battery-less mouse that doesn’t need cleaning. For that purpose it’s perfect, driver problems notwithstanding.
I’m actually happy to see someone (in this case, a previous Windows-user) enjoying Lindows. I’m not lining-up to install it, but I learned Linux a different way…in my opinion, any foot in the door is a step forward.
HTML editors: Bluefish (http://bluefish.openoffice.nl) and Quanta+ (http://quanta.sourceforge.net).
did anyone besides me catch the screen shot of the lindows home page? I had no idea they changed it to look like Apples page!
Ok enough about that.
all you windows (and pre OS X) Mac people (and even the BeOS users) need to get past the point that in a multi-user
environment (even if you are only using it yourself) root is important and Lindows definitly has it wrong.
if people are going to be using Linux they need to get used to the idea of having a root user and haveing regular
users…why not just teach them rather then make them stupid? (which is half of the problem with the windows world)
one reason is for the sake of conformity? if users do get into Linux and they decide to try another distro (a real distro)
there is going to be unnecesarily
I don’t think you need to worry Brad. All non-geeks who try Linux distros get sick of it and leave. They never stay for long.
They default that way, but you are not “required” to run as root. To quote from their own web page:
“LindowsOS does not need to run as root, as it supports the option to set up user accounts. However, the average Microsoft Windows user (90% of the world) doesn’t know what a ‘root’ is, so to help MS Windows users migrate to Linux and not scare them off, LindowsOS doesn’t thrust the complexity of multiple users, root, password layers, etc. on a new user during installation. However, it’s quite easy to add user accounts once running LindowsOS.”
http://info.lindows.com/askmichael/question9.htm
In other words, for those of us who enjoy typing our password in 50 times a day, we still can. =)
Mark
Xirzon,
> I have configured my system in such a way…<
Dude, lighten up! It sounds like you are a slave to your computer. I use my computer as a tool. Your analogy is kind of like the time I heard Martha Stewart talk about how each time she gardens, when she is through she hand washes her shovel, then lightly sands all of the metal and then coats the shovel with a light oil coating to prevent rust. Geez, the stupid shovel is worth 10 bucks. Most of the people that use computers don’t know how to make files read only. In fact, if a file is not in their “My Documents” folder, they are lost. I think that Lindows.com is on the right track to make things easier for the user, not harder. It sounds like they want a lot of customers using their product, not just a few hard core linux gurus.
Rude Turnip: I believe it does. That just gives it one more thing to have in common with Windows XP.
rajan r: Windows XP doesn’t force you to be the adminstrator.
Here is specifically what I mean. XP doesn’t have you run as the user “Administrator,” rather in the Home and Pro versions it gives regular users administrator powers unless you tell it otherwise. For a home user, this isn’t too big of a deal and is similar to how it was done under the 9X series. If you’re using the Pro version, you presumably know what you’re doing and will give you and your users regular limited accounts.
However, for certain programs to run, you must have administrator powers under XP. This is a major problem we’re having at work with all our new Dell XP boxen. Several of our programs will simply not work unless the user has administrator powers. So, in order to get your job done, you must have admin power in XP. We did not have this problem under NT 4. Our IT people are not happy about this.
I attribute this to bad programming practices and not necessarily the fault of MS. XP’s file heirarchy allows you to give users their own program settings, much like the dot folders and dot files in *nix. However, many of these programs are just putting the settings in the program folder, which creates a read/write permissions hassle unless you’re administrator.
chad….
Lycoris only charges for the method of distribution (IRIS). They do not charge for free software, and all that software is available in either rpm or source format on the community page anyway. They charge $20 for the ability to use IRIS which is very much like click and run except that it identifies all programs by their real names and also identifies them as free. IRIS is about convienience for end users, not scammin the community.
Lycoris is FREE (as in beer, and mostly as in speach). Lindows is not. (either way)
Sorry, but I just needed to correct that statement.
Like the post above, you don’t have to run as root. Remember this is beta software… And also don’t forget something else too, it’s Linux! Of course it’s a multiuser os. Adding, editing, deleting and switching users is fast as ever. For those of you coming from Windows to Linux, make user administration the first thing you learn. This new version (1.3) is better than ever.
I went to lycoris.com to view the Iris software library. http://lycoris.com/webservices/iris/ It gave me a document not found error. Not very Impressive. Regardless, last time I looked at Iris, it had like 10 programs in it, Lindows.com’s Click-N-Run has over 1,500!!!
Lindows.com has commercial software in it, like StarOffice (alone a $75 program), Iris only has free stuff.
Lycoris is trying to copy Lindows.com’s good idea, they’re just not doing a very good job of it.
RPlant
This note is just a quick side to Zirzon and imaginereno. You both discuss issues, pro and con, about working as root. You also make a distinction about not working as root on Windows XP. You should be aware that the users you create on an XP system are, by default, given root privileges on the system.
Other than that, good comments by both.
Greetings from Canada!
We have installed the Lindows OS on two systems running other OS’s and very happy and pleased with what we have seen. This OS probably is not aimed at the high-power linux users but to those of us tired of MS’s on-going price/customer rip-off mentality!
We are happy to pay the $99.00 U.S. and have a chance to
experiment with a OS that takes less than 10 minutes to install as compared to an hour or two or more and all fiddling around that goes with it.
Lindows works well and every time, that is a pleasant change!
We wish them all the success, and hope that they stay as a
viable customer-friendly OS/company.
Cheers.