“FalterCon 2007 took place on August 11, and it went quite well (IMHO, of course). Here I would like to share my personal impressions of the event, as well as make a few (somewhat) related observations. When the news of the WalterCon cancellation broke out and I read about some people being left with non-refundable air tickets, my first reaction was ‘OK, let’s do something with these guys’. A few emails later with Mike Summers, Bryan Varner and Urias, we had decided on having a community gathering which, as many of you know, was to later be called FalterCon (yes, pun intended). In approximately two weeks, we found a venue (and a good one!), had this website running, prepared some nice promo material, and were able to gather nine people willing to attend. All in all, I think we did pretty well given the very little time we had.”
I had a great time. Shame none of the osnews folks decided to show up at the picnic. I even sent an ‘invite’ to them.
Oh well, I suppose lousy coverage of actual OS happenings is to be expected. After all, we don’t have an Apple logo.
But as a side note: I’ve never seen so many socially inept people in one place before in my life. Some of these Linux people are outright freaks.
“But as a side note: I’ve never seen so many socially inept people in one place before in my life. Some of these Linux people are outright freaks.”
the more alternative your os of choice is the more of a social falure you typicaly are in life. now if you excuse me i have my own social life to get back to.
(turns on his dual boot QNX/skyos install he is using as a desktop os)
ok voyager show me this world wide web of which you speak.
(edit: typo’s)
Edited 2007-08-15 03:36
But as a side note: I’ve never seen so many socially inept people in one place before in my life. Some of these Linux people are outright freaks.
Hey, that’s no way to address our good friends from the picnic
There were definitely some colorful characters, however…
What I found most interesting is, despite my expectations, most of them were very positive and reasonable when it came to discussing Haiku. There were only a couple who walked away disinterested, but there were many many more that sat down to see it in action and talk to us about the progress.
I also can’t convey how welcoming the picnic organizers were – they even came by at the end and thanked us for coming, and asked us to come back next year.
Very true, it was a jab.
They were nice, they were very nice!
They were just very, very awkward.
I also agree they were far more open-minded than I expected!
I had a great time. Shame none of the osnews folks decided to show up at the picnic. I even sent an ‘invite’ to them.
Yeah I can really justify paying boatloads of money for an Amsterdam-San Fransisco ticket, cancelling work and all other things I had planned for the weekend.
I doubt Bryan was refering to Thom. Eugenia anyone ?
Exactly. Thom, I totally understand you not coming. But Eugenia… c’mon. You live in the area.
and have even voiced a history as Beos enthusiast…
strange. but i guess she had more pressing things to do.
Exactly. Thom, I totally understand you not coming. But Eugenia… c’mon. You live in the area.
No offense Bryan, but please don’t be a prick. Eugenia probably doesn’t want to come in the first place, and on top of that, even if she did want it, she’s not allowed to drive in the US due to some weird restriction on the type of immigrant she is – don’t know the details.
I’m not really into these types of comments, and it’s simply a very unfair thing to say. We can’t just go to whatever little get together we want, these things cost time, money, and on top of that, we actually need to want to go there. OSNews is a voluntary effort, so it’s not like anyone will be paying for the days I, or Eugenia, miss when we can’t work because we need to go all geek and sit with laptops outside of a Linux conference.
A) I forgot about the driving thing.
B) I’m not trying to be a prick, I’m just naturally gifted at it.
C) A simple “No thanks, we can’t make it, sorry.” response would have been nice. I didn’t submit anonymously. You guys could have easily contacted me in response.
Anyhow, I’m over it. I hope you are.
A simple “No thanks, we can’t make it, sorry.” response would have been nice. I didn’t submit anonymously. You guys could have easily contacted me in response.
Ah, you submitted it via our submission engine (each submission gets emailed, found the email)… That’s not really the way to go. I read the headline you used (“Faltercon this weekend”) and deleted it since we don’t announce conferences. If you want to contact us, do so directly, or via [email protected].
Eugenia doesn’t see those submission emails at all, since she doesn’t receive them.
I didn’t really think he was being what you said, but I certainly don’t think a site admin should use that kind of language in a response. ;(
“””
I didn’t really think he was being what you said, but I certainly don’t think a site admin should use that kind of language in a response. ;(
“””
Tuishimi,
Words exist. All kinds of them. Get used to it. They can’t hurt you unless you let them. And being concepts and not actual objects, they can’t be “dirty” or “clean”. They simply are. If you don’t like particular ones, I guess you can just ignore them.
I don’t like Thom. I don’t care for his style. And I don’t care for his power trips here on OSNews. But the OP was rude and over-demanding and got the response he deserved.
I wasn’t offended… it’s just… well, you kind of expect the admin person to rise above that sort of thing, you know what I mean?
It’s like I don’t expect the CEO of a company to get up on a podium and say something like “Yo dawgs! That’s some sh*t we got goin’ down, WERD!”
“””
I wasn’t offended… it’s just… well, you kind of expect the admin person to rise above that sort of thing, you know what I mean?
“””
Yes. I know what you mean. Thom doesn’t do any sort of “rising above”. He reacts. In this case, more or less appropriately.
If you are looking for reasoned responses and restraint, talk to Eugenia. She’s opinionated. But the lady has class.
Thom’s no CEO. But your sample quote reminds me, oddly, of Darl McBride. 😉
Sorry Thom, but I was there for five days and public transportation is everywhere. It’s insane. There is the CalTrain(train), BART(light rail), and buses. Not to mention ride sharing and carpooling. There’s even a website to help get you from wherever you are to wherever you want to go and a phone number. There were even offers of rides on the FalterCon website.
If she wanted to come I’m sure we would’ve chipped in for the 10 dollars or so it takes. It’s clear she either had no interest or didn’t know about it(which I doubt.) Maybe she was scared we’d yell at her 🙂 I was looking forward to meeting her. Oh well, maybe next time.
It’s clear she either had no interest or didn’t know about it(which I doubt.) Maybe she was scared we’d yell at her 🙂 I was looking forward to meeting her. Oh well, maybe next time.
Or she had other plans
BTW, didn’t I tell you SF was all about public transit?
She clearly could have come if she wanted to, but maybe she’s just enough of a non-nerd that she already had plans? Or maybe she was sick, or just didn’t feel like it. More to the point, I’m a little confused by this mentality that seems to think that she was obligated to come. She’s not even one of the staff here at OSNews anymore, so why all the complaining about her not coming? I don’t see you complaining about all the other Haiku fans who didn’t show up.
Sorry, I think this post is directed more at bryanv than you. Anyway, glad everyone there seemed to have a good time.
Edited 2007-08-16 02:03
I’m looking for some redeeming value somewhere in your post. It’s just not there. Did you offer to pay airfare and hotel accommodations for an OSNews rep? Or perhaps they should pay for it out of subscription money, which is < $1.67/mo per member. I mention that because I see that you are not a member and have not paid a cent for the service OSNews provides. Not even the standard membership of 5 cents per day.
Edited 2007-08-15 06:07
Why should I pay, when everything I ‘need’ is offered ad-supported for free?
Seems a bit silly to me.
“””
Seems a bit silly to me.
“””
You are changing the subject. As a reminder, you are whining and complaining about OSNews not reporting on your event while you are unwilling to pay even 5 cents a day for content. That’s the topic. That said, it does not surprise me that you think it’s silly to pay 5 cents per day for the maintenance of the site.
It seems ironic that you would comment on others’ social ineptitudes. Or perhaps not.
At any rate, I’m sure that the Haiku community is a mixed bag, like any other, and that we should not take your attitudes, as presented here, as being representative.
I’m glad the event came off well, anyways.
Gee, I didn’t know I needed to bribe them.
If this site actually operated the way you’re claiming it does (or should), then they should change the name from OSNews, which implies journalistic integrity, to OSAds so that the people who are willing to pay $0.05 a day get to read nothing but ego-stroking, positive spin advertisements for their favorite subjects.
Your argument that I have no voice because I’m not willing to ‘pay’ in currency doesn’t hold water with the stated goals of this site. Get over it.
I’ve been informed that I submitted the invite improperly, among other things, so Eugenia (and even the rest of the admins) never even read it. It’s no big deal.
“””
It’s no big deal.
“””
Agreed.
I just had a chat with Eugenia. She had heard about it a couple weeks ago and put it out of her mind.
I was going to call her at some point, but through the haze of travel I forgot. She said she would’ve went as her and JBQ did absolutely nothing.
Oh, well, maybe next time.
I personally found everyone at the picnic to be very friendly, welcoming and quite sociable. I have nothing but good words for all the Linux folks that I met at the picnic. It was a lot of fun and a great experience, one that I would definitely like to repeat next year.
NewOS deserves a better OS on top of it… travis made a fantastic kernel, and now these guys have put a unbelievably unstable and code-crappy OS on top that they try to “market”. I don’t get it. Fix OS, then market. Yeah, yeah, I know. “It’s pre-alpha!”
Sigh.
Hey predictor, we love you too.
Edited 2007-08-15 07:29
OSNews deserves a better comment than yours.
Fix OS, then market.
Which is exactly what the Haiku team wants to do, while lots of people on the sideline want them to make releases before it’s ready.
It’s not easy to make everybody happy, which is why the team should do what they think is best for the project (this doesn’t necessarily mean listening to people whining).
I think they do a tremendous job, and I’m very impressed by their results so far. Oh, and if you follow the mailing lists, you see more and more developers joining in.
>>NewOS deserves a better OS on top of it…
>> travis made a fantastic kernel, and now these
>> guys have put a unbelievably unstable and
>> code-crappy OS on top that they try to “market”.
>> I don’t get it. Fix OS, then market. Yeah, yeah,
>> I know. “It’s pre->>alpha!”
>> Sigh.
>Which is exactly what the Haiku team wants to do, >while lots of people on the sideline want them to >make releases before it’s ready.
Who could blame them, having a sexy web site with a huge download button and telling everyone it’s a BeOS clone in the works.
So again. Get it up to a decent level, then do the marketing.
Edited 2007-08-15 09:07
Looks like you got a pleasant visit over there. BryanV hows the Java RE going on Haiku, is it working?
Haiku is missing set_signal_stack.
That’s the current blocker to running the last build of JDK 1.4.2 I did on Haiku.
Er, what about opening a ticket on the ticket tracker ?
I’m sure there are freaks in every operating system community.
Since the Windows community is larger than any other I would put a large bet it has the largest population of freaks.
Serious `normal` OS users probably have jobs they can not break away from when someone verbally farts a legitimate or improvised gathering.
As much as I liked BeOS as an operating system back in the day, I’m not sure I see how Haiku is a relevant OS for day-to-day personal or commercial business.
“I’m not sure I see how Haiku is a relevant OS for day-to-day personal or commercial business.”
If they get the OS stable, it’ll be relevant because a lot of people want a BeOS like system. I assume Haiku plans to modernise it.
Now, one thing i hope Haiku will fix is the crazy menu-oriented GUI of BeOS. It’s nice the first couple of minutes, then your mouse arm starts to hurt…
Please predictor, if you’re going to troll at least try to be more imaginative. What you’re saying is almost like asking Bill Gates to fix “that crazy window-oriented GUI”.
Don’t like it, don’t use it. But really man, watch some TV, play a game, I don’t know, do something, you’re getting annoying.
” What you’re saying is almost like asking Bill Gates to fix “that crazy window-oriented GUI”.
Not quite what i said, now is it? Both Haiku and Windoze are window-oriented GUI’s. Windows, however, doesn’t damange users health by having them navigating through eons of menu levels (often missing the item, then having to do it all over again).
Now, one thing i hope Haiku will fix is the crazy menu-oriented GUI of BeOS. It’s nice the first couple of minutes, then your mouse arm starts to hurt…
Heard of keyboard navigation?
“Heard of keyboard navigation?”
Yes, most novice users don’t do that. Haiku is for l33ts?
Most novice users use a GUI.
Your complaint and statement seems mutually exclusive!
“Most novice users use a GUI.
Your complaint and statement seems mutually exclusive!”
Your brain and your keyboard seems mutually exclusive. Only one operates at a time.
BeOS keyboard navigation is a joke.
That I have to agree with. At least in R5. It’s pretty much *not* there.
“Exactly. Thom, I totally understand you not coming. But Eugenia… c’mon. You live in the area.”
Maybe she tried to boot haiku and got disgruntled?
Predictor,
I’m not really into public warnings, but please refrain from trolling, or I’ll resort to other measures.
Thank you.
“I’m not really into public warnings, but please refrain from trolling, or I’ll resort to other measures. ”
You define comments you disagree with as trolling?
OK, Thom Holwerda, your tasteless editorial style wins.
Please remove my account.
(/me leaves)
OMG.
That’s all it took?
People have lives outside of computing. Perhaps a hastily thrown together and not well defined substitute for a failed convention for a niche OS got trumped by other real life plans and responsibilities? I know that I never gave Faltercon a second thought after I read about it. I think that Bryanv has a *highly* over-inflated opinion of the event. And based upon what he has posted here, possibly of himself, as well.
Please give me one reason to give such a harsh response. It’s weird to read Thom telling predictor to behave and a few posts later, read your post. Granted, bryanv comment was misplaced, but there’s absolutely no reason to give such a reply.
Edit: typos, spelling and stuff
Edited 2007-08-15 18:25 UTC
Merkoth,
My response was intended to be honest, but not harsh. Faltercon *was* a “hastily thrown together and not well defined substitute for a failed convention for a niche OS”. The whole Waltercon/Faltercon fiasco has been well documented here. And surely you do not consider Haiku to be a mainstream OS?
Edit: Read the posts under this story, please. Bryanv’s post is not “misplaced”. His attitude is rude, arrogant, and inconsiderate.
Edited 2007-08-15 18:54
Obviously, the only thing we can agree is that we, in fact, disagree. I’m kind of a Haiku follower, so you can be sure that I have read the entire post, and pretty much every post covering Haiku. So, I know that Bryanv was being kind of rude, but your answer is just as rude as his. Honest != rude.
As you can see, my point is pretty similar to Tashimi’s, but you’ve already stated you feelings about that, so there’s no point on keep discussing this. But yes, I know, this is your site guys and you can make whatever you want here.
“””
Obviously, the only thing we can agree is that we, in fact, disagree.
“””
Hey Merkoth,
I disagree. 😉 Perhaps we can agree upon more.
And perhaps it isn’t that big a deal? I’m OK with that.
I sense that I don’t really disagree all that much with Tuishimi either.
I don’t see a lot of point in trying to decide who was the rudest.
Sometimes one feels the need to stand up and speak loudly. The weird thing is that I’m not used to standing up and speaking loudly in defense of the policies of OSNews. But this time I felt that I should.
Wow, the triple-whammy.
The sarcasm was clearly lost in translation, and it wasn’t intended to be as mean spirited as some have clearly interpreted it.
That said, yes — I’ve written some harsh things. My foot feels pretty crunchy in my mouth.
I’m just stating it like I see it, for better or worse. Potential repercussions from stating the way I see the world do not hinder my willingness to share my view.
“””
Wow, the triple-whammy.
“””
Sorry. Really. 😉
If I misinterpreted your original post, as I suspected I might have, I sincerely apologize.
Could you clarify a bit regarding your original statement about the freaks? That was what convinced me that your original post was mean spirited. I wrote about it. But then deleted, as I thought you *might* be kidding. But as the complaints about OSNews not showing up seemed genuine… perhaps I misjudged.
Anyways, I am pleased, from afar, that the event went well. 🙂
It’s almost one of those, ‘you’d have to be there’ kind of things.
Everyone there was very, very nice – (except for the first guy I met, whose name I still don’t know) and seemed like good people.
Let’s see, there were the strange people who would randomly talk at you without any context. There were people who would end every sentence with an nervous laugh followed by a snort (Steve Urkel embodiment). There were total nut-job zealots that believe that Linux is the one true OS and anything that deviates from linux / GNU / X11 is pointless. There were the people who wouldn’t stop staring at my wifes chest. There was the eccentric guy that claimed he almost dated Teri Hatcher, and immediately followed that up with “Where did all the hot chicks go?”
And there was the first “gentleman” I met outside of the Haiku group. He gets his own paragraph. Within five seconds of meeting him (never got his name, he butted into a conversation he wasn’t a part of) repeated no less than three times, directly to my and my wifes face, “I’m not trying to *uck your day” in an unbelievably harsh and belittling tone. I didn’t have any notion that he was “trying to *uck” my day — until he put it like that, repeatedly, as if I was a deaf moron who didn’t understand the basic constructs of English. This dude literally got in our face with zero provocation.
So yeah, there were a LOT of totally socially awkward and inept people. There was the occasional ‘highly-functional’ individual there for the Linux stuff. Sadly the vast majority of what society would consider ‘normal’ people to interact with were at the Haiku table.
Except for the lady in the red hat. She was weird, too.
With the exception of the one guy who apparently was obsessed with *ucking my day, all the others were at least polite and well-meaning, even if they were more than a bit off-center with their interpersonal skills.
There was the eccentric guy that claimed he almost dated Teri Hatcher, and immediately followed that up with “Where did all the hot chicks go?”
I even have that on tape I believe…
BTW, I think the guy who “wasn’t trying to F your day”, was possibly the same guy who Mike Summers wrote down the quote from at the very beginning…something about “Redmond”, and “plastique”…
Was it by any chance the guy in the black shirt here in the background (with the beard)?
http://www.linuxpicnic.org/pics/picnx16/brad_douglas/CRW_6831.jpg
Edited 2007-08-16 01:17
Let’s see, there were the strange people who would randomly talk at you without any context….”
Hmm…if you replace Linux with BeOS/Haiku in that paragraph it is just as true.
LOL I just must visit one of those Linux event
Looks like it’s time to install Haiku natively on my Dell X300
This seemed like the most common question we heard at the picnic was “What can you do with it?”, that and “Why?”. I think we did a decent job of answering those questions, but might help to have some good demo stuff to some off next time.
Seems to be getting closer to the day where we will be facing the “Where’s the apps?” question again. Might be time for those who are interested in writing apps to start working on them.
Most were impressed to see Haiku running natively on 3 different laptops that we had setup. Hopefully by this time next year Haiku will be to the point where we will be able to have it running natively on all of the laptops we had there. Seems the biggest holdup was SATA support.
I look forward to going again next year. It was lots of fun meeting everyone who I’ve only know virtually for these past 7+ years.
Ditto scottmc!
Pleasure to finally meet you!
Most were impressed to see Haiku running natively on 3 different laptops that we had setup. Hopefully by this time next year Haiku will be to the point where we will be able to have it running natively on all of the laptops we had there. Seems the biggest holdup was SATA support.
There have been a few “legacy SATA” drivers added to the tree since the picnic even!
On one of my laptops, Haiku only hangs when it gets to the desktop – I need to submit a bug report on that still… otherwise all the hardware I brought could have been running Haiku natively (granted, that was the laptop I was using as the wireless->wired router and to chat on ustream with)
Next year I will bring more laptops running Haiku goodness – even if they’re hunks of crap!
Where was Axel during this con? I thought he was one of the grand poobah’s of haiku and wouldn’t miss this opportunity.
“Where was Axel during this con?”
I’m going to guess he was in Europe.
Good god.
Lets argue over petty SHIT for 40+ comments.
Grow up already!
But I’ll deal with Bryan V and the like
I’ve known him for a few years now. hehe
oh, also, Bryans first post was obviously meant to be humorous and a jab at the people. *I* f–king do that all the time to everyone. grow some humor bones!
anyways… I’m in a bad mood. I shouldn’t comment when I’m in a bad mood ^_^
“Bryans first post was obviously meant to be humorous and a jab at the people.”
The jab at Linux folks was sorta lame though. Not really funny at all.
Then again, a lot of BeOS folks seems to have an irrational aversion towards Linux. I dont really know why. Maybe because Linux has succeeded while BeOS failed completely.
hullo, soulbender
The jab at Linux folks was sorta lame though. Not really funny at all.
Then again, a lot of BeOS folks seems to have an irrational aversion towards Linux. I dont really know why. Maybe because Linux has succeeded while BeOS failed completely.
Oh, come on now! That was really uncalled for… I am a Linux nerd by many accounts (at least, my closest friends and wife seem to think so) and I laughed a lot when I read Brian´s humorous post about the social ineptitude of some Linux users that were there. Hell… I do that all the time, too.
Some of you guys really need to grow a thicker skin!
“Some of you guys really need to grow a thicker skin!”
I dont use Linux.
Interesting how you didnt find my characterization of BeOS users funny even though it is just as accurate as the previous one on Linux users.
Also, it wasn’t really funny. “Linux geeks are freaks that lack social skills” was funny maybe 10 years ago.
Edited 2007-08-17 03:59
Well, from personal experience, I’ve met lots of ‘linux geeks’ who were severely lacking in social skills.
Like *me* ^_^
I’ve forced myself to open up and be more social. honestly, being a withdrawn introvert gets kinda sucky
So now I can be overly social and annoying. I dunno which is worse…
Well, I don´t know you but when I see something like this – http://www.jonnypage.ca/?p=245 – I start laughing out loud like crazy even if the joke is on me! But one can always look to those funny Novell TV commercials if he/she prefers a more “optimistic” view on these things.
Now getting back to the topic: I am glad to see that some of the Haiku enthusiasts around here managed to work around that sad problem with WalterCon being canceled and all and had the chance to meet each other in person, having a heck of a good time while they were at it.
I’m not sure who needs more help… The people who bicker on end over this petty SHIT, or the lurkers like me who keep reading page after page.
It’s like Soap Opera for nerds.
Heh, best comment so far. I keep thinking “why am I reading this?”. I should really be coding instead.
I guess sometimes you just need a break.
hehe, yeah, i whine about it but keep coming back for more…
Also those who’ve done so much work but couldn’t due to distance or work/social schedules! We’ve seen the work you do and it’s impressive.
My suggestion is do all you can to maintain ties with those from the Linux fold most interested. A site or forum where it would be an easy ‘one spot’ place to just chat or exchange ideas could be very useful. Talk to them about design ideas (always trying to win them to the “BeOS/Haiku” of course) and easy way to help the 2 platforms and others work together & co-exist.
It can be done through freindly means such as challenges/competitions, code bounties, or just playing on the desire of somebody(s) wanting to get their app working on as many FOSS platforms as possible or any other means you find that works. JUST GET HAIKU INTERST OUT THERE! Help get these people to try it, to keep some interest in watching for a place they think they might have something to offer!
I’ve already tried to work with Be Inc once before trying to get FreeBe into public/school libraries at many levels. While Be Inc might have been swallowed by Palm, I still recieved interest from several people worldwide that were wanting to do what they could to drum up interest in BeOS locally. If you can get Haiku close to the R5, I will start updating my lists of university, state and local librarians, library societies, and individual teachers.
I suggest getting their input online as Haiku reaches Beta quality so that they may converse with those both actively working on development and those planning the next phases of it.
It’s a simple matter of the more mass you pack onto the snowball, the faster it progresses and the quicker it gains additional mass.
DLazlo
I have no problem with the Linux people. They were nice, if eccentric and weird. I have no room to talk. Let’s just say I wasn’t the weirdest one in the room for once.
We were one of the centers of attention as Koki found us a spot near the power outlet. Starshine (Heather Stern) was cool, as was the lady in the red hat, which I captured on camera. Egrep made the comment about about blowing up Redmond.
I got to meet Bryan’s wife Kylene, whose seemed really kind. I saw Andrew Bachmann and his wife and got to actually interact with them, but I’m not sure if Andrew had any fun. By the way, it seems porting Java makes you a babe magnet.
I had a really good time, even if I was stuck behind the camera.