“IBM WebSphere 5.0 features SOAP parsing, UDDI repository, Java and a number of open source technologies that IBM claims speeds performance of Web services and lowers integration costs. The application server also simplifies management through features IBM claimed are part of its nascent autonomic computing strategy for self-healing of systems. These features include ability to detect and correct faults and automated server clustering.” Read the report at TheRegister.
IBM Releases WebSphere 5.0
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Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
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Hmmm, this is the most bloated “WEB APPLICATION ENVIRONMENT” I’ve ever seen! I don’t like because of lack of speed (included development application), because of fatness AND because of BUGS.
Additionally its much tooooooo expensive to get our customers to use it!
Yes it has some advantages thow:
WebSphere Apps are Fast & Reliable and so far practival for BIG projects, as you can start one application on n-Servers without a problem- EVEN on one machine (multiple virtual servers on one machine), if you want!
-A
Probably there’s more to say about it, but I don’t want to…
> because of fatness AND because of BUGS.
Are you talking about WebSphere 4.x or 5.0? In regards to this new version and news item, if you are talking about version 4.x of WebSphere, please do not judge something if you haven’t used its latest version (5.0), except if you are absolutely sure that things haven’t really changed.
webshpere 5 is much better then the 4 release. and r5 has much better db2 and domino/notes integration then the r4 series.
and i don’t know why you declare websphere as slow and full of bugs! websphere is great and like most enterprise applications, it is very huge and very feature-rich.
WebSphere 5.0 changes some of these issues I mentioned, significantly, since I really talked about 4.x.
But the bloatness will be still available for free with the whole WebShere Package. I am at least sure about that!
Q:Have you actually ever seen a 63MB++ Fixpack for one Application?
A:No, except 2k & XP(which are OS’s) ones.
A:WebSphere 4.x to 4.y!
Further more I thing selling the WebSphere for that prices is a cheek! Because all in all, WebSphere is just a package of a lot of technologies that existed long before (JAVA…, XML,HTML,DB2, blah blah).
In 4.x to me it seemed that all these tech’s were put together by some midclass developers to fill IBM’s empty cash box.
And additionally a lot of the stuff came from OpenSource
(and IBM of course)
For customer is just important how much they need it or how much they don’t since they have alternatives, that can do the same like WebSphere does for them…
Like some Databasesystem (PostgreSQL…) and some Server with Servletmanager (Apache + Tomcat …) and Development Environment (NetBeans …)
-A
websphere runs ok on our as400’s… speed is really quite good. stability is par excellence too.
will see what the next v5r?? brings…
WebSphere 5.0 changes some of these issues I mentioned, significantly, since I really talked about 4.x.
But the bloatness will be still available for free with the whole WebShere Package. I am at least sure about that!
when you speak about bloatness, then you probably are comparing websphere with another product of the same functionality and quality. and i would like to know wich product is more lean then websphere and has the same functionality and a better quality.
Q:Have you actually ever seen a 63MB++ Fixpack for one Application?
A:No, except 2k & XP(which are OS’s) ones.
A:WebSphere 4.x to 4.y!
YES! lotus domino/notes has service packs biger than 63mb!
Further more I thing selling the WebSphere for that prices is a cheek! Because all in all, WebSphere is just a package of a lot of technologies that existed long before (JAVA…, XML,HTML,DB2, blah blah).
okay, okay… then windows is bullshit as well. because almost everything windows offers, does exist for free or existed long bevore windows was out.
or visual studio is nothing other than a gui editor with a great context sensitive help and a great compiler. and all of this exists long before and is still available for free.
and this is exactly the type of argumentation i hate! i can’t understand how someone can use such statements! if you don’t like a application, then tell us what is wrong with it and not that other tool are existing and therefore it must be bad…
In 4.x to me it seemed that all these tech’s were put together by some midclass developers to fill IBM’s empty cash box.
websphere is the answer from ibm to bea. and it is a great cash cow for ibm. if it would be a bad product, no1 would buy it…
And additionally a lot of the stuff came from OpenSource
(and IBM of course)
so what? does this change anything?
For customer is just important how much they need it or how much they don’t since they have alternatives, that can do the same like WebSphere does for them…
Like some Databasesystem (PostgreSQL…) and some Server with Servletmanager (Apache + Tomcat …) and Development Environment (NetBeans …)
to some extend you are right, but customers want one solution for all their problems and not a patch-work!
anyway… you are free to sell a combination of diffrend products mixed up into one solution and support that mix-up.
>YES! lotus domino/notes has service packs biger than 63mb!
What do you think, who owns NOW domino/notes?(and why?)
This is not good publicty for IBM, isn’t it?
I actually like the idea of Lotus/Domino (having database designed non-relational) but do not like the implementation e.g. User Interface, but this is of course my view of point.
So the same with WebSphere its my view of point how I like or how i don’t.
…
Like some Databasesystem (PostgreSQL…) and some Server with Servletmanager (Apache + Tomcat …) and Development Environment (NetBeans …)
I mentioned these tools because they are free. I thing that you’ve never tried them, otherwise you would know that a installed NetBeans offers one solution similar the WebSphere one. You’ve a excellent developer environment with a build-in Tomcat Testserver(Servlet Manager…) as well as Database explorers and much more…
PS:WebSphere 4.x at least does NOT install a Database system by default too. So the same with NetBeans.But then you can install the DBMS that you like…
-A
PS:What I wanted to tell here, is that THERE’s (in my point of view, NO warranty for selling this package for that price…
You know, this stuff looks an awful lot like Visual Studio.NET. In fact, with the exception of the “Detailer”, WebSphere Studio seems to be pretty much a duplicate of VS.NET with a little bit less fancy UI, and no support for C/C++. I’d like to know whether Web Sphere can step through the debugger, through the SOAP service, and onto the server
. There’s nothing quite like the shock of the first time you step, one moment in C code running on the client, the next in C# running on the server, using the VS.NET debugger. That said, VS.NET is very slow and bug riddled compared to it’s predecessor.
Anyway, that is neither here nor there.
WebSphere Studio V4.0, Professional Edition Program Package International English: $570.00 @ IBM
Microsoft Visual Studio .NET Professional: $924.99 @ Amazon
So, it seems to me that WebSphere is not priced so unreasonably; apparently, this is just how much these things cost (not that I’d ever buy them for that).
Sorry, I made it not clear enough.
Regarding the price I was NOT talking about the Studio…
I meant the price for the licenses that the customer have to buy if he wants to have a WebSphere Application server for n-Users or however these licenses are applied…
I just remember that one customer of our wanted to have his web “upgraded” from Domino to WebSphere with a rel. large amount of users and the price (i am really not 100% sure about it) was about 40000Euro whereas the Domino price was about 2500Euro
-A
PS:I looked for the licensing information at IBM but found nothing… If somebody here has more precise information PLEASE tell us…
andreas (so wie es scheint, bist du aus de… ich bin aus ch…)
yes. websphere licenses are very high!
but for 2’500euro you only get 1 domino server and 1 dev/admin/client license and 4 client licenses.
and for 40’000euro you get much more from the websphere site.
anyway… i am NOT a websphere geek (i am more a domino geek (PCLP dev/admin in r4 & r5)), but websphere has much more features then a servlet manager and a database integration. however… big customers want enterprise solutions and ibm just sounds very very good in their ears! it is not my view point, but you can’t change the way they are thinking (at least not all of them).
I actually like the idea of Lotus/Domino (having database designed non-relational) but do not like the implementation e.g. User Interface, but this is of course my view of point.
this will change! NSF will be replaced by DB2!
i don’t know how they will manage this, but they anounced it
cheers
SteveB
hmmm… looks like you don’t know eclipse.
have a look at http://www.eclipse.org
cheers
SteveB
yes. websphere licenses are very high!
but for 2’500euro you only get 1 domino server and 1 dev/admin/client license and 4 client licenses.
and for 40’000euro you get much more from the websphere site.
The main tools we sell are a)Content Management System and b) Knowlegde Management System completely written in Domino (now with much SQL DBMS integration … to get over to another platforms in the case Domino will be discontinued…)
The point is that it can be completely administrated in the WEB and so you can completely build up a whole WEB application in the clients Browser, so our customers only need
1 domino server and 1 dev/admin/client
After building your web, you can export it to a SQL Database & make it run with Apache(with SQL DB backend) or from filesystem or even from Domino/Notes Server(HTTP Task)
Thats why our customers were shocked by the WebSphere Price!
-A
look at http://www.altavier.de
This is our own Homepage build with our own CMS tool(runs on Domino/Notes).
PS:I kenne Eclipse
Prost
🙂