“The vision of running Linux on corporate desktops has gained ground during the past 18 months, as full- featured office productivity software has become a reality and improvements have been made to the Linux kernel and to installation and administration tools. But even though the open-source operating system has moved closer to filling desktop needs, nagging gaps remain, said users and analysts at last week’s Enterprise Linux Forum Conference & Expo here. In some cases, they added, the lingering lack of needed functionality is making it hard for IT managers to switch their users to Linux.” Read the article at PCWorld.
What’s Keeping Linux Off Desktops?
About The Author
Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
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I say that install and inital setup of any OS from scratch is a bitch and that is the same for NT or any other OS where you are taking a raw box and installing the OS from scratch and that is what I was saying about boxes that come pre-installed.
The sys admins like I said in my post can setup an install server walk back and when it is done walk the user through some basics and setup the users printer and network shares and they are off. It is called Kickstart.
The command line is sometimes the best way to get something done. Configuration tools can be more complete. No denying it. Webmin is really complete but that is a seperate download and most distro tools are not even close. You are picking the wrong arguements in many cases but that is not one of them. Good point.
The packages thing is the wrong arguement. The install is not the bad point. In Redhat or Mandrake now, you doubleclick an rpm and it gets installed on the system, period. Give administrator root password and it does the rest. This install of software is tough stuff is just a silly thing kept alive by mailing lists power users that tell newbies not to doubleclick but to go to the command line and run rpm -Uvh <name of software>.rpm
If your systems folks care about the best solution for the task at hand then they should look at all options not be blindly locked into one. If you work in a Unix shop and want to throw away the Exceed licenses and stop buying unix workstations then linux is a good desktop option. Otherwise keep linux on the servers. They make good webservers as well as BSD, DNS servers, Mail servers, small-scale DB servers, Samba file servers (I still have less problems with linux+samba than Win2000 especially for odd file locking issues and such).
How much time you spend figuring out how to do things quickly on linux depends on your experience. I have seen the PFY in IT fumble over finding some obscure switch in the network settings in NT between versions so this is relative.
One of my first posts was the simple fact that until there is an overwhelming reason for people to move to linux it ain’t going to happen. There is no killer app for the general population or office staff. Keep them away from ALL alternative OSes. Until, there is one thing worth the trouble of installing an OS (any OS) over what you already have linux will not make it on the desktop. It is hard enough for Apple to convince people to buy Macs (they are still losing market share right?) and it is touted in general perception as the easiest system in the universe to run.
You can speak about quality or not for the other system, but they all lack this incredible adequation between the price and the real value of the stuff. OK, you pay 0$ to get Linux, and you have EXACTLY what your money paid.
Another big avandtage of Linux, i think the zealot could push it more over the foreground, it’s the sense of humour. Linux offer, for free !, a little gimmick which is always working, to be precise it’s certainly the only thing always working with Linux. You known those sad days, with grey sky and grey everything, when even dogs spit on you, the solution is to surf on a Linux distro website ( this is working with EVERY distro ! ), and then the miracle happend, you’ll find the magic words : stable release… You’ve read it, they dare ! For me it’s always unstoppable, half an hour of good laugh, and the world looks better ;-)))
Fresco it is..
..an improvement over X, let’s face it X has it flaws and it’s taking too long for X or Xfree86 to right the wrongs.
..single look and feel for UI’s
The problem with us developing OSS right now, is that WE KNOW WHAT THE PROBLEMS ARE, WE KNOW WHAT THE SOLUTIONS ARE..
BUT STILL WE DON’T ACT ON IT.. WE REMAIN STAGNANT..
If we remain stagnant, linux will forever EXCLUSIVELY BE For THE GEEKS. Too bad for such an open, free and powerful kernel.
@ Richard:
You misjudged my intent. It is not about me having troubles with Linux sound or anything.
> Solar said he could admin Linux and used this to make it
> seem like he knew that Linux Sound was complicated. When
> in reality he should have checked wether it was his own
> lack of knowledge that was the problem.
It is the need to have such knowledge that is the problem. Linux people keep claiming that, “you just didn’t work with Linux enough to understand”, and that “if you did spend as much time with Linux as with Windows, things would be just as easy”.
If you want people (which might, or might not include my person) to switch, you must not aim for “just as easy”, you must aim for “much easier”.
People do know Windows to some extend, and most have troubles with it. If they try Linux, the only chance Linux got is to be easier right out of the box, because they will install, test, and immediately compare the experienced comfort.
> A newbie may not understand but a admin certainly should.
That’s exactly the point. An Admin working professionally with Windows for years – why “should” he know? Why should he care? Why should a company even consider the immensive costs implied in switching systems, retraining personell, and alienating users?
If you want people to switch, you have to realize that everybody, including their admins, is a newbie.
1) Fragmented developer platform.
At first this is what it looks like, but it’s like the two heads or a candle-stick illusion: look at it from a different perspective and it all makes sense. As a developer you should choose the platform that suits you. KDE and GNOME are 99% compatible and getting moreso by the day. If the user has a unified widget theme (ie BlueCurve/Keramik) then they look the same, and the freedesktop.org standards ensure technical compatability at another level. Yes, there will be slight look and feel differences, but this is true on Windows as well.
If Qt/KDE floats your boat and you are willing to pay the fees, use it. Otherwise GNOME is pretty good. Or don’t use either. Don’t worry about which has more installed users, dependancy resolution will sort that out (or at least, it will eventually).
Note: the idea that KDE has more users is largely unsubstanitated. Judging from the number of views in the respective weekly summaries at linuxtoday.com they are evening up. Regardless, it doesn’t matter, the choice is entirely up to you as a developer – if we do our jobs right it doesn’t matter which desktop platform you used, it’ll integrate with whichever desktop the user is running perfectly.
2) Sound servers. Rather than there just being 1 sound server, the solution is actually to standardise on sound server protocols. Then on Linux insert support into libasound so all apps that use ALSA or OSS emulation via ALSA get support automatically: no worries. The sound server would become yesterdays worry. It’s just a matter of hacking out the code, but nobody has done it yet.
The kernel doesn’t do sound mixing or resampling for stability reasons.
3) Usability is a rather bogus argument. RTFA. They are more worried about the lack of an Exchange replacement. Usability wasn’t mentioned.
4) Choice and simplicity. This is a BS argument. We have choice in EVERY other aspect of our lives, maintaing a monopoly is illegal after all. Somehow the TV and the car are simple enough for everybody to use, despite a dazzling array of choice.
People who say choice and freedom are bad are scared of something they have never experienced before. No other industry has such big hangups over it. Why should we?
5) KDE vs GNOME, see standardization. Redhat 8 for instance doesn’t ask KDE vs GNOME on install, it just puts GNOME on. Very spiffy it is too. If you want KDE you can add it.
Basically Linux is totally normal. You choose which components you want to use and develop for, and you use them. Standards keep it all in check. This is how things in the real world work. It’s Windows and MacOS that are not normal – but it takes a mental backflip to understand it.
> Usability is a rather bogus argument. RTFA. They are
> more worried about the lack of an Exchange replacement.
> Usability wasn’t mentioned.
I was trying to state what I considered is keeping Linux from the desktop, which was the subject of the article. I don’t know Exchange first hand so I don’t talk about it.
And that an argument doesn’t really fit into the topic of a discussion does not dispel it’s validity.
> Choice and simplicity. This is a BS argument. We have
> choice in EVERY other aspect of our lives, maintaing a
> monopoly is illegal after all. Somehow the TV and the
> car are simple enough for everybody to use, despite a
> dazzling array of choice.
But in every car, throttle is to the right, clutch is left, brakes in the middle. I don’t want no freakin’ choice there, either.
> People who say choice and freedom are bad are scared of
> something they have never experienced before.
Oh *come* on!
> Basically Linux is totally normal. You choose which
> components you want to use and develop for, and you
> use them. Standards keep it all in check.
The very *absence* of standards, or at least the absence of adherance to such standards, is what people around here are talking about!
> It’s Windows and MacOS that are not normal –
> but it takes a mental backflip to understand it.
Normal is what is perceived normal. I can stand up in the middle of a crowded place with my underpants on my head and declare myself “normal”, but still, it’s the masses that define normality.
Solar: And I am a pro, god dammit (sorry). How do you expect Joe Average User to try different distros? And, btw, Joe Average User doesn’t have a 2.5 MBit connection either, so “trying” Linux does cost him about as much as a Windows license. Uh, less, since he got that one inlcuded…
Whose talking about the consumer market? Who is talking about installing Linux on a private individual computer? Certainly not the article. I don’t see why not for the sysadmins of some organization to test out various distributions and see which fits best.
For you on a individual computer, yeah it makes little sense.
Solar: Ah-uh… and pray tell, where do I find them? /bin, /usr/bin, /usr/local/bin, …? Uh, yes, depends on your distro / version / setup…
Huh? Once installed, it would appear in your KDE menu and GNOME menu (or was it Favourites menu, I forgot). To start installation, there is a setup.bin (or something similar) on the CD of StarOffice somewhere (can’t remember off hand, its been awhile).
Solar: Now, now, now. Either you are the super genius of the year, or you are boasting like a madman, or you have a funny definition of what it means to “learn” a language / markup.
I’m not at all boasting. Python, HTML and XML are easy languages. I can’t say I perfected all three languages within a day, because that’s lying. I’m saying I have learnt it in a day. Later on experience perfected it. Plus, that is NOT my point. My point is that I’m no programmer, yet I use Linux.
Solar: But that’s OT, now is it?
Well, if you quote it out of context, yeah maybe. But your whole arguement is OT if we were to discuss the article (remember, the enterprise desktop? not you desktop, not you grandma’s).
Solar: And mpg123 last time I looked in earnest (7.3) – in the “minimal” install, which isn’t really useful if you want to do “real” work.
7.3 was like a year ago. 8.0, at least on my install, came with only XMMS. By default, that is. (And it isn’t a MP3 player, BTW, RH took away that capablity). 7.3 is very different from future Red Hat products. Older versions come with multiple browsers, office suites, terminals etc. Now it only come with one.
Solar: So you install Office, and KDE and Gnome just to be sure because you don’t want to make up your mind before you tried ’em, and voila…
How do you install Office on Red Hat Linux without any third party app? Well, I personally at first install both KDE and GNOME, later on I uninstall KDE desktop, kept the libraries and most of the apps I like.
Solar: And please, don’t dismiss valid criticism with “this disussion is on corporate desktop” or “this discussion is on consumer desktop” respectively.
As valid as it is, by fixing problems you have encounter wouldn’t actually make the enterprise adopt Linux faster for the desktop. You are missing the core issue on why many corporations don’t adopt Linux. It isn’t because there isn’t a unified TK, or a fragmented distribution scene, or applications being hard to install, etc. It is applications.
Solar: Most of the people here are pointing out weaknesses because they want to help (well, I am for one)…
Well, pointing out crtisimi here on OSNews isn’t going to help the situation. Try writing a article with suggestions (not critism), or post on revelant projects’ mailing list with *suggestions*.
Solar: Just like the Amiga dudes thinking that running on a PPC won’t place them in competition with Windows, simply because it doesn’t run on the same hardware – this argument is severly flawed.
Actually Amiga didn’t pick PPC because of that. Remember, Amiga picked PPC when Microsoft itself was following the PPC hype by having a version of NT available on that platform. Amiga at that time thought PPC was the future, and it is pretty easy to make that mistake given the situation then. And after investing a lot of money on PPC, it makes little sense moving to x86, after all they are after a niche market and they don’t really have speed problems.
Solar: RPM has to surpass InstallVise.
Contrary to popular belief, Red Hat never made RPM to compete with the likes of InstallVise.
Nicholas: 1. They need to advertise it, people don’t know about things they never hear about & if some of the bigger distros start advertising, do it on none geek sites and stations if you want normal users to hear about it.
Advertising may help, but advertising only helps when something doesn’t get any publicity. On the average consumer newspaper (normally on the tech pullout), there is many occasions Linux being mentioned. Business newspapers and magazine had countless times mentioned Linux. I lost count the amount of times Linux gets mentioned by business news sources like Bloomberg and CNBC and CNN..
Nicholas: 3. More programs, games would be good.
Yeah, and that would spur corporate adoption. That’s the only thing that would spur corporate adoption (not the games, silly, the programs).’ Plus making it easy (and cheap and fast) to migrate custom stuff like databases and custom apps to Linux-based apps would help too.
skeetor skeetor skeetor bwuffle:[The ability to make tables in wordprocessors, such as how Word does. The ability to open a word document w/ tables & not have it look wierd.
I’m able to do both. Maybe not in AbiWord, but still I can do both on Linux. Try OpenOffice.org (And KWord can do tables, but can’t open Word files)
skeetor skeetor skeetor bwuffle:The ability to auto-convert a word 2000 document into an html page. The ability to clean up word’s extranious html code… such as how dreamweaver can.
IIRC, Quanta Gold have a feature that cleans up HTML code, maybe that would work.
Dub Dublin: the people who are anal enough to go tweak all the X configuration settings, themes, and such.
Since my first day of using Linux with Mandrake 7.1, I never involuteeringly tweak X configuration, themes, and such. All the tweaking I have done was because I want to do it.
Dub Dublin: (Visio comes to mind (and no, Kivio, Dia, etc. are NOT in the same league)
I agree, but still, maybe you should try Kivio MP, there is a Windows version too.
Kady Mae: The systems department has enough to do where I work. I’m sure they’d LOVE to spend even more hours just trying to get the printers to run, the video cards to work, and all the software installed and playing nice.
The county of Largo, remember them? They moved to Linux around a year ago. They have 8 people managing 200 clients. During the migration, the move would be hard and time consuming, but after it?
Kady Mae: a) Will I be able to find the software I need to watch it?
RealPlayer is available on Linux, while QT can run on CrossOver Plugin. Both formats can be played, IIRC, in Xine and/or MPlayer.
Kady Mae: b) *IF* found, will I be able to install it?
If a church friend found it hard to install stuff like FIFA 2002 on Windows, I really have to say it depends on the user.
Kady Mae: c) *IF* successfully installed, will I be able to quickly and easily find and open it?
Most likely yes, unless you are using some obscure distribution/window manager. Most apps would appear on the menu.
@ Rajan:
> You are missing the core issue on why many corporations
> don’t adopt Linux. It isn’t because there isn’t a unified
> TK, or a fragmented distribution scene, or applications
> being hard to install, etc. It is applications.
Erm… perhaps for the guy in the article. If I ask the admins next door, it’s because none of them is trained with Linux. If I ask the admins next department, it’s because none of the personel that has to work on those desktops in the end knows about Linux. You’d be surprised how little people around here (outside the IT) even know about the WindowsNT they are using.
Why don’t the people in the offices know more about Linux…
Now, do you see how the circle is closing? You cannot just seperate corporate and consumer desktop, because they are basically (I said basically the same. Only at home, you also want sound and games, and you are your own admin. But you are still the same person.
If Linux won the corporate desktop, people would get used to it and use it at home, too. From the other side of the medal, if Linux became easy and consistent enough to be the consumer OS of choice, corporations would have one reason less for not installing Linux on the corporate desktops.
Now, from which side should Linux approach the problem? Answer: Both. (Just like Microsoft did as the office and home platform of choice.)
> Try writing a article with suggestions (not critism), or
> post on revelant projects’ mailing list with
> *suggestions*.
Tell you two things:
a) I don’t have the time,
b) they wouldn’t listen anyways. (Yes, I *have* tried.)
> Remember, Amiga picked PPC when Microsoft itself was
> following the PPC hype by having a version of NT
> available on that platform.
Amiga picked PPC when phase 5 proposed PPC-based accelerator / co-processor boards, but Amiga never followed up on the promise.
They had the chance of making the painful cut, but that was quite some time ago…
I’d like to continue on that thread but that’s *really* OT now. 😀
> > Solar: RPM has to surpass InstallVise.
> Contrary to popular belief, Red Hat never made RPM to
> compete with the likes of InstallVise.
Sheesh, wording. The way Linux software is installed has to surpass the way Windows software is installed. Better?
But in every car, throttle is to the right, clutch is left, brakes in the middle. I don’t want no freakin’ choice there, either.
And on Linux, you can run apps from the menu, and right click brings up the context menu, and left click depresses buttons.
What people do want choice in is, size of the car, its colour, its make/brand, whether it has a CD player or not, automatic vs manual. These are all things that people have choice in.
The very *absence* of standards, or at least the absence of adherance to such standards, is what people around here are talking about!
What do you mean by standards? User interface standards, see the HIG. Technical standards, see LSB/FreeDesktop/X protocol/OpenOffice file format etc.
Normal is what is perceived normal. I can stand up in the middle of a crowded place with my underpants on my head and declare myself “normal”, but still, it’s the masses that define normality.
Yes, and competition is perceived as normal. The masses have declared that this is normal, which is why MS was prosecuted and found guilty. Normal takes into account stuff outside the computer industry.
The very thing that Linux is best known for, is what is holding it back. Becasue anyone can develop any aspect of Linux, the talent pool is pread out, instead of concentrated on a single goal – Like Everyone developing for Windows.
Imagine if you had every programmer for all the UIs working togehter on one GUI? How much do you think they could get done then? As it is, a few are working here, a few over there, in the end you have a lot of ‘pretty good’ instead of any ‘great’.
Linux off the desktop argument should specified to a distro, because windows is a distro of Micosofts Kernel. Only differenc is its the only distro and all their efforts are focus on that one distrobution.
Well, that’s what I think anyway.
hmm, it seems all I read lately is articles about linux being ready for ‘prime time’ for the masses’ desktop in Distro X (finally!), which is interrupted by the odd “what is keeping linux off the desktops?” article. And the cycle goes on and on and on and on…
I think I’ll explode if I see another article with ‘linux’ and ‘desktop’ in the title. 2,4,6 years from now we’ll still see the same articles saying the same stuff that’s been said for the past several years, with the real changes never taking place. Yawn.
From Mandrake’s web site:
“Free Software can only remain healthy with your financial support”
You are paying for mandrake ? No ? I guess you’re joking ;-)))
@ Xavier:
No joke. RMS ranting good and fine, but a company that has running costs (like, running a server where you can download a distro) has to generate income, no?