ZDNet UK reports: “With Christmas just around the corner, the consumer-friendly Linux distribution is readying its high street invasion“. LindowsOS 3.0, a Linux-based operating system designed to attract the less Geeky and thus more general computer user, was reviewed by OSNews earlier this month.
for all you curious fellow geeks this means that you have a chance to make the same mistake you made with purchasing Corel Linux, only you can buy it for somebody else as a Christmas present and take a couple years off their lives.
The article only gives the suggested retail price by Lindows.com, does anyone know how much they are selling it to retailers for? Is there any room for competititive pricing?
funny you should bring up Corel, that was my entry into the world of Linux. In hindsight At the time I would have been better off with a more command line oriented distribution.
Does anybody have any figures for the total number of Lindows OS computers Wal mart has sold? I’m guessing at this point with that kind of distribution channel, they should have surpassed Corels numbers by now. I find it funny that the only information on Lindows seems to come from Lindows itself.
redhat and mandrake had been around for several years prior to lindows. why isn’t there more of an aggresive push by them to get on shelves at stores or preloaded on computers? Even if they make minimal gains, or just brake even, the larger userbase would be the biggest gain.
Good question, I’d like to know that, too. I’m having the impression that Lindows might become the numero uno Linux distribution very soon.
Hmm… maybe because they suck, for the average user?
RedHat never tried to be a user-friendly distribution. When IBM started selling Linux-based laptops, they didn’t sell them with RedHat, the market-leader. No, they chose Caldera OpenLinux 2.3, even though Caldera has always been the underdog in the market. But they were more serious about tackling usability issues.
And seems like Lindows took the battle one level higher. We’ll see how they fare, or will RedHat come in and say “game over”.
redhat’s cost of tech support and other things would go up substantially if they marketed their product to normal users, it makes more business sense to not do that until RH is usable by people easily.
The latest versions of RedHat and Mandrake are and have classically been available at a large number of computer software retail stores.
Red Hat 8.0 is currently very easy to use. It’s at least as easy as Windows, although it’s not a Mac operating system.
I would be very interested to learn the Lindows/Microtel numbers from wal-mart.com. Of course, you can also get Lycoris/Microtel and, unless they’ve changed, also Mandrake/Microtel. It would be interesting because, of course, the numbers of people who go to Wal-Mart are astronomical and I’m sure many of those people also visit wal-mart.com. And are looking for bargains. The thing is, you can also get Microtel/XP at a bargain price too.
But, it is true, no matter what one thinks of Lindows and Robertson, he has made enough noise to get at least some people’s attention. Yes, I’d love to see those number 🙂
This might be offtopic, but while we’re talking about Linux in the retail market, I saw a Sunday ad for Odd Job, a closeout retailer, that is selling refurbished IBM desktops (333Mhz, 4gig HD) with Linux for $50.
The catch is that you buy the box for $199 and then get a $150 rebate when you sign up for 2 years’ of ISP service with Empire.net. I went to empire.net’s web site to get details on which distro they’re using, but found nothing.
Again, sorry if this is too offtopic.
when you compair it to Xandros, RH suxs for usability.
compair RH 8 to RH 7.2, and yes it is easy.
“Good question, I’d like to know that, too. I’m having the impression that Lindows might become the numero uno Linux distribution very soon.”
In your dreams. No offense, but Lindows plain sux. It’s not bug-free enough for Grandma to use, and costs WAY too much for Linux. Xandros is the best of the Debian desktops at the moment.
I perceive that Redhat, which I use,can become the #1 used Linux distro, just using a fractional influence. They are gradually including Home desktop users, in each succeeding version.
Wait a minute, it’s already #1…
I’ve never tried Lindows. However, I did read Eugenia’s scathing review of Lindows a while back, and I find it hard to believe that anyone uses Lindows. Most of the Walmart sales are probably to teenage warez-wallahs who promptly install pirated Windows on them, or to Linux geeks looking for a cheap box to install another distribution over.
Robertson appears to be an ignorant man, and a crook. I bet he tried to bribe Eugenia to write a favorable review, but she wouldn’t ruin her reputation for fairness like that. (laugh) Lindows is a rip-off of consumers and puts Linux in a bad light. It makes Linux a laughing stock. Lycoris doesn’t seem much better. Please don’t tell me that Lindows is the best selling distro of Linux and that Lycoris is runner up. As for “Click ‘n Burn” that just proves that P.T. Barnum was right. Or was it W.C. Fields?
“Never give a sucker an even break!”.
How come the Kde dudes aren’t complaining about the way Lindows have bastardized and watered-down Kde, like they complained about Redhat’s modifications? Lindows makes Kde look like a cheap, broken imitation of Windows. As the intention of Kde is to be a “better Windows than Windows” one gets the impression from Lindows that all of Linux is a poor imitation of Windows instead.
Microsoft has sued for unauthorized use of their trademark. Fortunately, Robertson goes out of his way not to use the word “Linux” or somebody would be sueing for abuse of the Linux trademark as well.
For someone who admits to never having used Lindows, you seem to know an awful lot about it
“Robertson appears to be an ignorant man, and a crook. I bet he tried to bribe Eugenia to write a favorable review, but she wouldn’t ruin her reputation for fairness like that.”
So, you never tried LindowsOS, you don’t know Michael Robertson personally, but make silly comments like this. For an ignorant man, he seems awfully successful. I’m not sure if he’s a crook, but you certainly have no support for that accusation. Was it the GPL issue that Eugenia explained in her review? Maybe you should read it again.
You make LindowsOS critics look really bad. Some actually sound intelligent. It’s a shame that you reflect poorly upon the Linux community as well.
For someone who admits to never having used Lindows, you seem to know an awful lot about it
Well this is all identifiable from screenshots, people’s comments, and the press releases that Lindows feeds us. All though I’m sure you already knew this.
I’ve got news for you. Installation of software from click and run has all the other distros I’ve tried (red hat, mandrake, suse) looking like also rans. For what click-and-run costs, you’ll save far more than that on time (even at mininum wage). When will geeks get the idea that the average user doesn’t give a rats ass what gui they’re using or how it looks or whether it’s watered-down or not. The average user wants to write, or do math, or do ANYTHING else but bother with the operating system. And Lindows is as bug-free as red hat or mandrake.
No, if one hasn’t used it, one cannot say whether or not it’s easy to use, etc. I’m not defending Lindows, but it is very easy to use, including downloading from the Click N Run Warehouse, with no dependency problems. You download a program and it goes right into the menu category where it should go. They’ve made it easy now, when installing, to create user accounts rather than run as root. I just don’t like mis-information. Whatever one thinks of it, they have accomplished these things.
And that’s exactly what worries me. I am fed up with monopolies in the Windows world, I don’t want to see yet another monopoly coming up. Call me paranoid, I don’t care. I have been called MS lemming for criticizing Linux’s shortcomings, I will be always anti-everything, so I have no problems criticizing RedHat’s attempt to be the next monopolist. And spare me that “it’s all opensauce, noone can control it”, because I can tell you that RedHat, at least in the server market, has already won, and it’s game over for all other distros. Suse included.
Please explain how RedHat could possibly become a monopoly, and even if they could and did, how could they use it against anyone when their code base is OSS and available to everyone?
//[RedHat 8] It’s at least as easy as Windows,//
Unless you want to install:
Flash
QuickTime
RealPlayer
Shockwave
Macromedia Director
TrueType fonts
…but who needs those anyway, right?
Stop the FUD.
whats wrong here. it seems that some (to many it seems) don’t want linux to become more maintreme. hell it doesn’t matter if they sux, to you, it matters that someone will be a part of the linux muvement (watever that may be). for anyone that goes away from MOCOSOFT grip is better. and thinck aboult it, even if you say it (lindows) sux. it is a good example of a good aprouch. it is going to work and it is not the only one taking such an approach, there is Xandros, it is not bad to see them atracting new users to linux. pluss all u should do is emulated the good things they have broagt on to the other distros an every body will (should) be happier. don’t bash… contribute. it all about diferent aprouch and desires. tell the other distros what they need in other to compete for the DESCKTOP marker. there are thing ones need to see in other to understand how to improve. if windous is at the top analize it and inprove or adapt doses thing to the distros when posibel. get the info and analaize it defore going in a BASH CAMPAIN … on all anguls .. man there are lost of erros in this … well ops… as long as we dont get chain to somethig it is the way .. unchain the others from windows…..
Installing everything but Macromedia Director is relatively easy under Linux (Particularly RedHat), and the Flash plugin does Shockwave, I thought. Oh well, I don’t see many Shockwave sites.
Installing fonts in RedHat 8 is as easy as making the .fonts subdir in your home folder, and copying the .ttf files into it. They are immediately recognized when the X server is restarted. Installing programs, excepting occasional dependencies, is a rather simple task most times if the developer cares enough to provide a README or INSTALL in the .tar.gz.
Let’s say, purely hypothetically, that a company that produces a very important piece of software, like Oracle, decides they will not support any other distrbution but RedHat, in the future. If such a purely hypothetical scenario happened, Suse Linux and pretty much any other Linux distribution that aims at the server market, will be in the shitter.
Is it any good, for any company, that RedHat is mostly OSS? Not a bit. They still can’t just repackage it and sell it.And even if they could, the only way they could get Oracle to support it, would be to give guarantees that it’s identical to the RedHat version they are copying. So, I am still stuck with RedHat, whatever the foot you call it. But I don’t believe Oracle would support that distro even then, because Oracle needs future roadmaps, and they can only get them from RedHat, which puts RedHat in the driving seat.
Now, is this scenario possible? Well, if you send me your e-mail address, I will tell you if it is or it is not…
…that has market success. I HATE the RedHat cheerleaders, even more than the Microsoft cheerleaders. OK, that was an exxageration, but still…. what does RedHat do to generate RedHat supporters? Surely not the quality of their product, which is, at best, average. RedHat has always been the distro that doesn’t excel in anything, except in breaking backwards compatibility for some applications, and shipping already broken apps in their dot-oh releases. What, except of marketshare, does RedHat have going for it? Because if it’s marketshare alone, do I have to remind you of Microsoft’s marketshare?
I have all of those right now on my system, exception being Director, YOU are the one spreading FUD.
http://www.codeweavers.com/products/crossover/
http://www.macromedia.com/shockwave/download/alternates/#linux
http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=1842
so fuck off
“They still can’t just repackage it and sell it.”
Huh? What do you think SUSE, Caldera, and Mandrake did? They took RedHat’s code (MANY versions ago) and rebranded it.
“what does RedHat do to generate RedHat supporters?”
They sell a product that works, and put more into the OSS community than ALL of the other commercial OSS companies combined.
” Surely not the quality of their product, which is, at best, average. ”
Huh? If that’s the case then why is RedHat #1?
“RedHat has always been the distro that doesn’t excel in anything, except in breaking backwards compatibility for some applications, and shipping already broken apps in their dot-oh releases.”
Lemme guess, GCC.. Yeah, who owns GCC? They do. You don’t have any idea what you are talking about.
” What, except of marketshare, does RedHat have going for it? Because if it’s marketshare alone, do I have to remind you of Microsoft’s marketshare?”
Yeah, how did they get marketshare? Not by selling a poor product that’s for sure. You stick to Gentoo and I’ll keep using the #1 supported distribution. LOL Grow up.
Alright guys lets face it these distro’s are for us. I’ll take a command line over GUI any day, but the public doesn’t even know what a command line is. The people wanting, or buying these distro’s are people trying to get out of the microsoft trap. Let’s give credit where credit is due, these new “user friendly” stripped down versions of linux are finally giving people a choice. I don’t know about the rest of you linux geeks out there but it will end with more work for us. These user’s don’t really care about most of the backend stuff so when something goes wrong, no average joe will be able to help. The user’s will be calling us. I say hoo raaah for these distro’s, Let’s give people(average people) a choice, Let’s take Microsoft’s market and leave bill holding his … Then not only will there finally be freedom for the average user but our services will be in greater demand!!!
“These user’s don’t really care about most of the backend stuff so when something goes wrong, no average joe will be able to help. The user’s will be calling us. I say hoo raaah for these distro’s, Let’s give people(average people) a choice, Let’s take Microsoft’s market and leave bill holding his … Then not only will there finally be freedom for the average user but our services will be in greater demand!!!”
Anyone with Linux questions is MORE THAN WELCOME to IM me for help, I’ve NEVER turned anyone away unless I was unable to assist them. I think the easy to use distro’s are great, and can’t wait to see more of them.
ICQ: 3947763
You know, I am even more convinced about my arguments now that you have chosen to attack me rather than what I say. That’s called an ad hominem attack, and is sign of lack of self-confidence (lack of good arguments?). I mention facts that I know to be correct, and you reply by attacking me? How lame is that, huh? And you tell me, to grow up?
Sorry, but I just say it as it is. RedHat does not have anything excellent. And about RedHat giving back to the community: actually, Caldera contributed at least as much, and yet they were FUDed to death and pulled out of Linux, pretty much. And so did Suse who contributed a lot, and they are going to go out of business shortly (not having any contingency plan).
” Surely not the quality of their product, which is, at best, average. ”
Huh? If that’s the case then why is RedHat #1?
That’s exaclty what I was asking.
You don’t have any idea what you are talking about.
I believe I know what I’m talking about. I have been using/trying out RedHat since RH 4.1 up until RH 7.2.
“They still can’t just repackage it and sell it.”
Huh? What do you think SUSE, Caldera, and Mandrake did? They took RedHat’s code (MANY versions ago) and rebranded it.
Well that’s exactly what I said: they can’t just copy RedHat, they change it, try to improve it, and since it’s RedHat that dominates the merket by a way too big majority, the big software companies are dropping support for any other distribution. The only way for a Linux distribution to have assured support from these 3rd parties is to BE exactly RedHat Linux, without any change.
All these Linux distributions you mentioned are, basically, dead. As I said, The server.side Linux market is now in RedHat’s hands. The only company that used to make profit, except RedHat, was Suse, But that’s not anymore the case, as the marketshare of RedHat has grown. Now Suse is losing money, but even worse than that, it’s losing 3rd party support.
“Sorry, but I just say it as it is. RedHat does not have anything excellent. And about RedHat giving back to the community: actually, Caldera contributed at least as much, and yet they were FUDed to death and pulled out of Linux, pretty much. And so did Suse who contributed a lot, and they are going to go out of business shortly (not having any contingency plan). ”
http://sources.redhat.com/ecos/
http://gcc.gnu.org/
http://sources.redhat.com/cygwin/
http://sources.redhat.com/gdb/
http://sources.redhat.com/insight/
http://sources.redhat.com/elix/
http://sources.redhat.com/rhdb/
[aitvo@lattitude aitvo]$ cd /usr/src/linux
[aitvo@lattitude linux]$ grep -i redhat CREDITS | wc -l
7
[aitvo@lattitude linux]$ grep -i caldera CREDITS | wc -l
2
[aitvo@lattitude linux]$ grep -i suse CREDITS | wc -l
12
[aitvo@lattitude linux]$ grep -i mandrake CREDITS | wc -l
1
[aitvo@lattitude linux]$ lynx -dump http://www.gnome.org/developers/ | grep redhat | wc -l
10
[aitvo@lattitude linux]$ lynx -dump http://www.gnome.org/developers/ | grep suse | wc -l
4
[aitvo@lattitude linux]$ lynx -dump http://www.gnome.org/developers/ | grep caldera | wc -l
0
[aitvo@lattitude linux]$ lynx -dump http://www.gnome.org/developers/ | grep mandrake | wc -l
0
http://www.freedesktop.org/
“Website hosted by Red Hat, Inc.”
Yeah, they are SUCH a bad company. Keep the personal attack claims to yourself, it’s a pathetic excuse. If I wanted to attack you personally I would have done more than just tell you to “grow up”.
Here’s why Caldera didn’t make it:
“Change for Caldera OpenLinux Workstation 3.1 Will Require “Per System” Licenses” – http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2001-06-25-006-20-PS
If RedHat was to do the same thing, they would end up in the same place. I firmly believe that they understand that, hence the reason you can go ftp://redhat.newaol.com/redhat/linux/8.0/en/iso/i386“>HERE< and download the latest ISOs for FREE modify them, build your OWN version based on them, and RESELL the result. So they have large amount of Linux marketshare, THEY EARNED IT! As long as their flagship products are FREE, and ship with source code, there will always be competition.
Those results obtained with the grep’s don’t say that much about the actual contribution a company made to opensource, but I don’t want to contest your results. I did not say RedHat didn’t contribute, I just siad that it did not contribute significantly more than the others. If your aim was to demonstrate that RedHat contributed more, then you have failed. By picking the gnome website you have clearly biased the results of your “research” in one direction. Should you have tried to bias the results of such research in a different direction, your results would have been different: searching the KDE website would have yielded a lot of matches for Suse, for example.
I just want to increase your awarenes of Caldera’s contributions, because I have the impression that your knowledge is lacking in that sense:
http://www.caldera.com/developers/community/contrib/
I’d say that just porting J2SE, HotSpotVM and contributing Webmin would count as a big help. Then the money given to RedHat to develop RPM is also quite relevant. Other contributions include parts of the TCP/IP stack, NFS, IPX/SPX, SLP (service locator protocol) etc. Money was given to have WordPerfect 6.0 ported to Linux.
I won’t get into the argument about “per seat licenses – yes or no”, it’s too religious. I’ll say just that recently a group of my colleagues went through the GPL and noted that it is not against such propositions. In fact, I urge you to read gnu.org’s comment on selling GPLed software:
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html
Highlights: “Selling a copy of a free program is legitimate, and we encourage it.” “Since free software is not a matter of price, a low price isn’t more free, or closer to free. So if you are redistributing copies of free software, you might as well charge a substantial fee and make some money. Redistributing free software is a good and legitimate activity; if you do it, you might as well make a profit from it.”
In other words: Caldera didn’t do anything illegal or immoral. In fact, that’s the same what RedHat does when it’s bundled with a HP or other vendor’s server. They call it differently, but it’s the exact same thing.
Dream on Linux zealots
Linux may be making inroads to the server market but for the average user it sucks big time.
It will never compete on the consumer desktop without broad 3rd party hardware support.
Distros like Lindows will only give Linux a bad name when average users buy it and find half thier hardware doesnt work properly and theres no 3rd party drivers for new hardware they buy.
Crap like Lindows will kill consumer interest in Linux.