“As some Apple defenders have noted (and I implied with my Bang & Olufsen comparison), there are lots of niche players who make loads of money selling higher priced, but high quality products. The problem, however, is that software lacks the natural levels of compatibility found in other markets. Bang & Olufsen stereos can play the same radio stations and CDs as the lower-priced offerings from Aiwa. That isn’t the case with operating systems, and really can’t be so long as developers have different ideas about API design.” Read the editorial at ZDNews.
How to Turn Apples into Ferraris
2003-01-13 Apple 89 Comments
I’ve been reading OSNews regularly for some months now. I’ve found it to contain some good stuff sometimes. There is however one thing that’s just too obvious… It’s just so anti-mac biased it makes me sick! And I’m not even a mac zealot, I use whatever I find better to the task at hand.
The review some time ago where some “OS expert” used a mac was just incredibly lacking and biased. You guys always pick this lame ZDNet stories, which manage to be even more biased. The comments in the forum are top-notch stupidity when it comes to Apple… It really makes me wonder how can some people dislike something that much? Will this “my pc is faster than yours and I have a big dick” ever stop? Just use whatever you like and make some constructive criticism.
My favourite quote from the ZDNet article:
“Microsoft has managed to CONVINCE 95% of the planet to use its operating system in desktop computers.” (my emphasis)
Apple already show interest in OpenSource software, see the Safari browser and KHTML…
I Think that the MONO project would be a wise choice to integrate .NET support into MacOSX. And I gess that they could mix it within WebObjects to spice it up too!
What do you think?
I don’t see any bias on OSNews, at least not in the news items. Editorials of course, are biased, but there’s nothing wrong with that.
He talks about the lack of apps for the mac and says that this is a reason why Apple should make a move to get back into bed with Mordor$oft.
In my transition to OS X I’ve yet to find a lack of software, and the *nix underpinnings of OS X have made it possible to port over a lot of applications written for other *nixes.
Granted, if I wanted to play the newest games, I’m SOL. But browsers, html editors, FTP programs, and office productivity software I’ve had no problems finding it. (And *none* of it comes from Mordor$oft.)
He also talks about how the vast bulk of the business world has chosen to go with MS products. This is a result of 2 things: Apple’s incredibly stupid priceing manouvers during the early to mid 90’s (55% profit margin!), and the fact that MS has decimated competing software companies — not by producing superior products, but by all manner of ruthless, ethically crippled business practices.
And, given how MS has dragged its feet on several projects that are important to Apple and threatened to drop support for some software, why in the world would Apple want to climb back into bed with them?
It has become glaringly obvious. OSNews has a definate negative slant against Apple and the Macintosh.
If the news links posted here were comprised of the community… and the links you posted reflected that, that would be one thing, but the links that are posted here are of your and a small group of other editors.
The community should dictate the content here. Not the editors.
> OSNews has a definate negative slant against Apple and the Macintosh.
This is wrong, we have nothing against the Apple. The owner of OSNews is in fact an OSX user 100% of the time these days.
I have said this a zillion times, when there are interesting articles on the web, we would publish them. No matter if they make a company look GOOD or BAD. And the article on the ZDNet today was an interesting one.
>The community should dictate the content here. Not the editors.
Oh, really? I shoved my ass writing this site from scratch and ending up in the hospital for overworking just to let strangers taking over this site? Get your facts together.
> “This is wrong, we have nothing against the Apple. The owner of OSNews is in fact an OSX user 100% of the time these days. “
As a Mac user I come across hundres of positive news stories about Apple. As a matter of fact, I really have to strive to find a piece with anything negative to say. Regardless, if there is one, I can always count on OS News to post it.
Eugenia, in an effort to do away with this image, perhaps you could make me one of the news posters on OS news or perhaps at least only post pieces that I submit to you. I’ll make an effort to sen you at least 20 Apple-related stories for you to choose from that are suitable to post.
“Oh, really? I shoved my ass writing this site from scratch and ending up in the hospital for overworking just to let strangers taking over this site? Get your facts together.”
If you want to continue misrepresenting operating system companies then continue doing what you’re doing. If you want to be more in-tune with the operating system community, you would be wise to only post stories that are sent to you by the community.
>If you want to continue misrepresenting operating system companies
I do not misrepresent anyone.
People are writing articles on the web. GOOD and BAD for EACH company. Whatever I find interesting, I link. End of story.
>I do not misrepresent anyone.
No but you (osnews) sure misrepresents companies
>“People are writing articles on the web. GOOD and BAD for EACH company. Whatever I find interesting, I link. End of story.
I guess that’s the point. You tend to find the negative Apple stories most interesting. By doing so, you lead many to believe that only negative news surrounds Apple, while this is certinly not the case.
Like i said, let me send you articles to post, or let me be a news poster. I’ll fix the problem
Submit articles that you think they would truly interest our readers and our team of writers will consider them for publication.
What exactly is so anti-Apple in this article ? The fact that it has only 2.6% market share and as a consequence, it lacks certain applications ? That’s the reality. In fact, he said he likes Macs (quote: “Apple is the Bang & Olufsen of the computer business”). I like them myself and I would get one today if I would be able to run all the software I run on windows. Sometimes, if not always, cricitism is constructive.
it was a review at Ars Technica.
The stopy was fun to read and sometimes “pro” Apple.
It didn’t show up here.
If I submit them, will you and your team continue to post the same sort of links that have been common up until now? If that’s the case then what’s the use, because if I’m submitting news to a team of individuals who who prefer inflamatory Apple articles, I know mine will rarely if ever get posted, and if anything get posted in equal proportion to the anti Apple stories.
If a new reporter interviews a very large room full of individuals, and all but 2 are likeminded in their way of thinking, then makes his or report on the event and says that many believe this way while another group thinks another way, it leaves the viewer of the news to believe that half believe one way and the other half is the opposite.
This is what you are doing with osnews when you post the articles that you do. You should post interesting news stories that are indicitive of what the technology community is reporting.
When you go against the grain as you have been with regard to the types of stories you post about Apple, you lead many to believe that only negative news surrounds the company, when actually there are very few articles that cast Apple in a negative light.
By repeatedly shocasing only those negative Apple stories, it becomes abvious that you are seeking them out and you expose your negative bias towards Apple.
This style of news link reporting must stop
>If I submit them, will you and your team continue to post the same sort of links that have been common up until now?
Yes, Apple news is not anyone’s specific speciality around here. Some of your news will be posted, and someone else’s too. What we ask is people submit news, not monopolize whole categories of news.
>it was a review at Ars Technica.
That articles is not of great interest for our audience. We had already did THREE news items based on the MacWorld announcements. It was too much. We don’t publish each and every news submission we get. More like only 40% of them, I would think.
BTW, this discussion here IS off topic. Further off topic comments will be moded down. If you want to discuss about osnews, email us, do NOT post here.
I just want to see an Apple with Intel inside, because I don’t believe IBM can put a desktop chip out that will be able to keep up with the raw speeds of an intel chip. If Apple does pick the new IBM chip, it looks like it will be slower then Intel or AMD from the stat’s I read.
I think the 300 message thread on the previous Apple article about how biased this site is against Apple was enough cannon fodder for a while… how about we talk about the article?
… wait, I have to add one more thing in OSNews’s defense. They are just posting the articles they find. I’m sure if they found postive articles about Apple, they would post them as well.
I agree with the first poster on only one thing… that line about convincing 95% of the planet to use windows is funny. I can “convince” someone to give me their wallet by pointing a gun to their head, but it doesn’t make them willing or the act ethical.
I also agree with the later post that this article is not all that negative. Instead of saying that Apple’s hardware isn’t worth the price, the author gives constructive criticism about what he thinks would help Apple. I don’t happen to agree with him though. His biggest point was that Apple needs to conform to Microsoft. This is one of the biggest selling points for Apple… they DON’T conform to Microsoft, they like to “think different.” I also think Ferrari is a bad analogy… I prefer Porsche because Porsche is more about style than speed… and if anyone else has ever driven a Boxster, they’ll know ease of use is up there too (those things handle like a dream).
I don’t know if I’d call this site bias, but I can certainly understand where some of the readers are coming from.
As far as the article goes I agree with the idea that Apple would do well to get .net running on MacOS X. That would make it very very easy to run any app written on .net. I’m running ROTOR on my mac, that’s the Microsoft version of the .net framework and the C# language/compiler. It’s a really cool language btw. Another point is that there is either very little editing going on at zdnet or this one slipped by, Firewire is NOT IEEE 1994, it was designated IEEE 1394. I would think that anyone in tech should really know that. Doesn’t really lend much weight to the writers opinions now does it?
What I object to is that generally speaking (not just OSNews), more often than not, the news that I read about Apple is negative. Good examples of that are the last two articles that have appeared on OSNews. I don’t think that there is any need to disparage the platform in order to get the message across that supporting .net would be a good thing. The editorial that was posted previously was just plan stupid and any news source worth it’s salt would post another editorial supporting Apple. That’s the way that most news sources deal with these sorts of things. That is of course if they are a news source and not just trying to get hits. I guess that I wouldn’t think less of this in the case of OSNews if there was the occasional article talking about some of the good aspects of the mac platform that everyone seems to agree on.
The other thing that really annoys me is that every week Apple seems to lose 2% market share. Has anyone noticed that? It was 5% last year, now it’s 3% and in this article the editor refers to a link which says that Apples share has dropped to 2.6%. I find this very hard to believe given the number of people that I have heard stating that they are either switching or at least buying a mac. Maybe these figures are based on OS9 usage?
I’m just wondering why you source articles from ZDnet, its not exactly a brilliant news service as it is.
IMHO it isn’t OSnews (the staff) that is anti-mac, its the articles from other news sites. If an editor was “anti” then why bother posting anything about something you dislike if you are anti against it in the first place? If you post something it generates mindshare and you wouldn’t do this.
>Maybe these figures are based on OS9 usage?
No, it is the whole Mac. And other two big statistics companies say that the number has gone down to 2.3%.
As for this article, I don’t believe that the author was negative towards Apple. He was just putting his thoughts on how could Apple make its business more successful! That is a GOOD thing people.
I was very chagrined, after reading the article, to see the very first post accusing OS News of anti-Apple bias. This is ridiculous. This article was not anti-Apple at all – it was, in fact, very interesting and offered some solutions for the Mac market. When the author calls both the hardware and OS “sexy”, that does not sound like anti-Apple talk to me.
The article dealt with one of the areas that Apple must contend with, given the current situation. There are many areas Apple must deal with and I think they are trying to do that as quickly as they can. Unfortunately, some of these areas have no instant fix. They are taking time and that’s just how it is.
I have said here that I think 2003 will be the year of OS X. Not in the sense of taking over everything, of course, but I believe it will be in full bloom by the end of this year. Application development is going on and much of that will come to fruition in the coming year too. But, the points the author raises are very interesting and have a sound foundation. He offers potential solutions and I can hardly call that anti-Apple. I also do not believe Apple and Microsoft are on bad terms. The Apple Switch campaign has been an effort to increase Mac sales, of course, but I don’t think Microsoft is swating over that. They continue to develop Office and have even made Entourage a standalone product for people who just want it. Many Mac users absolutely love Entourage. I hope this thread doesn’t turn into another flame fest. There is absolutely nothing in this article that is anti-Apple.
Eugenia – you were hospitalized? I’m so sorry to hear that! I hope you are well now.
> Eugenia – you were hospitalized? I’m so sorry to hear that! I hope you are well now.
Not now. That was back in August 2001 when I was writing OSNews and putting the whole thing together.
> As for this article, I don’t believe that the author was negative towards Apple
I can see where he’s coming from too, I agree with him, as I said in my post. I just think that there is definitely a way of saying things that would have been just a positive comment and would not have resulted in my whining.
I’ve been playing with ROTOR for a little while. Of course it’s only the command line stuff. Poeple are talking about getting WinForms going using Tk, that’d be interesting given that there is now a OSX version of tk out. Mono would be a good thing to have on the platform too, they’re working on a webserver that runs ASP.net and ADO.net, both of which were not in the ECMA standard submitted by Microsoft.
So what we’re saying is that Apple loses .3% per day? Which is 2.1% per week (depending on the delta between the dates of these figures) so I think I was about right.
Why do you guys post from ZDNet & C|Net? I’m just kidding, don’t answer that.
I’ve been a PC user since 1985, running MS-DOS and Windows (take your pick) for the most part. I started using (and loving) Linux in early 1998, and FreeBSD since about 2000. It recently came time to get new desktop systems for my wife and myself. I had been looking at the systems out there for quite some time, and finally settled on two 17″ LCD iMacs running OS X 10.2. I have not regretted the decision. I have no problems finding software for these computers. No, they aren’t blazingly fast, but at 800MHz, they are plenty fast enough for anything we need to do.
I find the iMac to be a very well built computer. I also think OS X is an excellent operating system. I’ve already decided when the time rolls around to buy a new notebook, I’m getting a Titanium iBook 🙂
People are not anti-Apple in the sense they say it just sucks. They’re anti-Apple in the sense they say, oh sexy this, sexy that BUT no software, slow, expensive, whatever. I would consider them valid points in some cases, however most people don’t even explain why they say this. Apple IS NOT Bang&Olufson of hardware – have you looked at the price of the cheapest hardware? Is there cheap Bang&Olufson?
If he’s trying to help Apple… big help! Genius plan I must say, bet people at Apple are already delighted with his idea.
I would rather have him shut up about that “Microsoft convinces 95%”, Microsoft software is needed on Apple computers, there’s not enough software for OS X and implying that you pay mostly for style. That would be a real help! He just gives a stupid idea for help while pushing some other completely unfounded ones and people say: “GOOD GOOD, trying to help”!
Firstly on bias: Mickey, you are insane As a Mac user you probably frequent MacSlash and stuff, which only EVER post articles that praise Apple. So when you come to a neutral site like OSNews, you get a shock because you find that not everything about Apple is wonderful and happy. It’s the other sites you read that are biased. I value this site because it’s a non-biased fascinating resource to learn about developments in operating systems.
On .NET: The author is clearly smart, but .NET is not in fact portable. The Mono project are learning this the hard way. For instance, to implement System.Windows.Forms they are using Wine, because .NET apps *still have access to the Win32 APIs*. Don’t think they don’t use them, because they do.
Even if they were somehow magically abstracted from all of this, there would be an even bigger problem. Apple sells style and branding, that’s basically their business, I never bought into the “inherantly higher quality” line. Windows .NET apps would still look and feel like Windows apps, it’s a part of the way apps are – they adopt the UI conventions and style of the platform they were written for (which is why free software “ported” to MacOS doesn’t feel Mac-like). So I doubt Windows app compatability would go down well with Mac heads.
I should think eventually we’ll be able to run .NET apps on Linux, but that’s because we have an implementation of the Win32 APIs, MacOS does not. Nice idea though.
there are enough negative articles regarding Windows, Linux or what have you out there. Don’t recall seeing them represented here in the same volume as negative apple articles, especially if I take marketshare into consideration.
John Carroll is a software engineer living in Ireland. He specializes in the design and development of distributed systems using Java and .Net. He is also the founder of Turtleneck Software
It looks like John has made a career living off Microsoft .NET scraps. He just wants desperately to run OSX, but he can’t because it doesn’t have .NET. Too bad. It has C++, Objective C, Cocoa (which puts .NET/DCOM/CORBA to shame), Carbon, BSD, X11, and OpenGL.
All these anti-Mac articles the past few days are just MS FUD. So the Mac has 2.6% of the market share. Big deal! How many machines is that? Millions? Get Real! The Mac has about 68% market share of those machines that do something other than run Solitaire all day.
Funny about the statement that Bang & Olufsen being associated with “high end” equipment when its just redressed Hitachi inside hehe. They haven’t been high end since the mid 80’s when they were really made in Denmark. Now the price tag is high but the actual build quality isn’t. Same deal with Apple. dress up commodity parts in a pretty case and bang-o big money.
I read a realllyy lonnnnggggg thread from the editor here over a month ago about how she was retiring.
This is not a slam…
What happened? shes back now more than ever.
The fundamental flaw I see in his suggestion to market OS X as a .NET platform (besides the obvious lack of a .NET framework for OS X) is the way in which .NET abstracts (or rather fails to abstract) GUI APIs, which are among the most divergent between platforms.
Besides, Apple tried exactly what this guy was saying… with Java, and so far that’s done very little for Apple’s market share. One issue with Apple and any p-code environment is their already overburdened processors. Most Macs just aren’t fast enough to run large p-code applications effectively.
Be glad osnews even mention the mac, the other 90% of the computer users just ignore it’s existance.
If Maczealots continue with the negative attitude they just scare away potential customers.
Just because you bought a Mac doesn’t mean it’t suddenly the best computer there is for everyone.
I dont think this site is bias, just the main-stream colums are. It is hard to find an objective colum one way or the other. There was a writer for cnet that actully started to use OSX for everything and guess what He loved it. But that was one writer of to tons of that love to get on Apples Bash band wagon.
But what I would like to see is more articles about the open source OSX coding. I mean really there are tons of developers coming to OSX and even Teamspeak is developing a version for OSX.
Apple is a hardware company that provides the OS as well.
Hardcore computers would have to lust after the mac. The l33t geek down the street has to want the machine. You don’t sell Ferraris to the average joe. You sell Ferraris to the hardcore.
1. They have to be the fastest thing on the frickin’ planet in terms of PC use.
2. They have to look amazing for the drool factor to kick in. (Apple pretty much already has this)
3. They have to come with basically every doo-dad add-on known to man. They almost have this down as well.
4. The OS has to be slickest fastest most configurable thing out there today. It is slick but it is not the fastest and not very configurable in terms of look and feel.
5. Games. The gaming industry drives the high end PC sales section of the market. Mac has to have a near to almost perfect equality in terms of the number of games available.
6. There has to be an application or use of the machine which justifies its use over the current standard Wintel computer. Maybe its a killer app not easily ported. Maybe its an OS improvement that people can’t live without. Something.
>What happened? shes back now more than ever.
I never said that I will be completely out of the loop. I said that I wont have the same role as before. and I dont! I dont work on OSNews 15 hours a day anymore. I work 1. I just gather SMALL newsbits and post them. I do not write long articles and most of all, I do not have these long conversation emails with the zillion companies. I am here simply for a limited time, enough to see my name in many small newsbits, but not behind the scenes work that takes place in any such big site.
Posted this with Safari.
heh, you thought you could get rid of me, didn’t ya?
ps. Safari’s cookies don’t work…
(i just installed Safari, I came back from Europe just last night)
> *still have access to the Win32 APIs*
Are you saying that WinForms bypass the platform abstraction layer? If so then that’s totally messed up. As I understood the architecture the PAL was the only place where there was interaction with system binaries (although I’m probably wrong). And here I was hoping that someone would just be able to write the appropriate abstraction and Apple.net would be good to go. Bummer. I guess I’ll have to start writing Java more often.
At least Java on the Mac is attracting developers! Heard of James Gosling? He may only be one java developer but you have to admit that such a high profile person in the Java community makes an interesting “switcher”!
> ps. Safari’s cookies don’t work…
What do you mean? i have no trouble with them? Are you using .51?
Yes, I just downloaded it from Apple.com. It is 0.51 and the cookies on OSNews (in the posting form) do not work. I don’t have problems with any other browser (except Net+ under BeOS which has a specific known bug on cookies).
It is good to have your response,so to clear up what one could perceive as a 180.
In the article the author states that the Mac is “starved for applications” and uses this reasoning to justify adopting .NET.
Considering most people do pretty basic tasks on their computers: word processing, email, surfing, music, graphics, games. Where is the Mac lacking?
Ok, which functionality are you talking about? When you’re logged in it doesn’t automatically populate the name and address field or what? I’ll try it out if I can.
The Mac OSX does not have enough commercial/3D games…
>When you’re logged in it doesn’t automatically populate the name and address field or what?
Now, I realize that Cringley can be considered a Maclot, but I think he raises some excelent points in this
which illustrate how Apple’s distancing itself from MS is a good thing.
> “As some Apple defenders have noted (and I implied with my Bang & Olufsen comparison)”
B&O is overpriced piece of sh*t marketed to deaf idiots with loads of money.
Even not being a Mac fan I would consider such a comparison as an embarassing one.
Just another stupid John Carroll article. This guy is incredibly biased, getting huge amount of support from MS, writing completely idiotic articles praising .NET and condemning Java for years. He even had a classic article written for supporting MS on the antitrust case.
I think he is a friend of Eugenia or somebody on OSNews, so that we are seing all his articles on ZDNet as news bullets here.
Well, you know what John Carroll, Apple is intelligent enough to not to support MS’s next world domination plan called .NET.
Having Office, MS Messenger etc. does not make sense to Apple, since they have their own products and there is something called OOS, and it is free.
You John Carroll, for me, do not have a write to talk about wisdom, since you, as a capitalistic biped, are clearly type of person who prefers money over the good of the world.
On the one hand, it sounds good – all those windows apps able to run on the mac. However, it seems a little to good to be true. As I understand it, .net technically could be made to run on a mac or linux, but will MS allow it? There’s been no firm committment for the mac or linux that I know of.
Is their another “catch”? Maybe MS will allow it but only if DRM is built into the system. Ever think of that one?
Also, it could undercut the mac interface. The apps won’t be consistent (similar to many java apps). They won’t use the special capabilities of the mac OS. However, this is already true of most cross-platform apps. They don’t go beyond the least common denominator (windows). That’s what’s so good about the apple apps. They actually take advantage of the OS and .mac and other apple goodies.
“I do not misrepresent anyone.
People are writing articles on the web. GOOD and BAD for EACH company. Whatever I find interesting, I link. End of story.”
If you are really trying to be fair at your site, then you are not doing as well lately. In one recent apple-related thread, the first half-dozen posts were simply anti-mac zealots frothing at the mouth that contributed absolutely nothing to the story, yet it took a couple of days of complaining for you to to moderate down the drivel.
Last week, there were also some positive benchmarks published for apple:
yet, you have not mentioned them at all here? You must admit, that there is at least the PERCEPTION of bias here, right?
As far as benchmarks in general, I do scientific programming, where linear algebra is important. I can get 1.4 GFLOPS performance on my 1GHz Powerbook doing matrix-matrix products (with the apple-tuned dgemm() that comes with 10.2). This machine has a 2 GFLOPS theoretical peak. If I do the same test on a 2GHz P4, I get only 300 MFLOPS with the best tuned blas library that I can find. A 1 GHZ powrmac can get up to 1.8 GFLOPS on this benchmark (presumably because of the faster DDR memory). I think the new powerbooks will do a little better than mine because of the DDR memory, but I doubt that you would ever post such a positive mac report here at OSNews. Why don’t you surprise us and post the result?
I certainly look forward to future Apple hardware improvements, and I do believe that Intel and AMD hardware can outperform the Apple machines in some benchmarks. I hope that the various chip makers can continue to leapfrog each other in performance. It is to the benefit of us all.
Actually it’s not a case of .net running on the Mac, it already does (ROTOR), it’s a matter of degrees. The Rotor project is Microsofts “proof” that .net can be made to run on other platforms based on the ECMA standards (for .net CLI and C#) that they submitted. The CLI and C# run, compile and build on MacOS X 10.2.x. But the big problem is what doesn’t run:
1. any other .net language
Major items on the list of “what is .net”. So it would be a big think to get Windows apps on MacOS X (based on .net) but it is doable unless the guy that posted earlier was correct in saying that WinForms makes Win32 API calls in which case that’ll never get on the Mac (unless Wine does?)
I do not believe this article was negetive, it was more of a “To-do” list for Apple, in the author’s opinion. Apple needs to do a lot of things to gain back market share, which I ponder what do they base it anyway? Do they base it on last year’s sales then add it to the total Apple Sales? And it seems Apple has a similar market share as linux, I use linux and so far have been able to find a nice replacement app for everything, well not for games :-(. But marketshare really doesn’t make me think “Oh no don’t by this because some company that you don’t know anything about came up with a number saying it wasn’t popular.” I believe I’ll still get a TiBook, next year.
> In one recent apple-related thread, the first half-dozen posts were simply anti-mac zealots frothing at the mouth that contributed absolutely nothing to the story, yet it took a couple of days of complaining for you to to moderate down the drivel
I did not have steady internet connection for one month. I came from Europe just YESTERDAY. I have missed a lot of articles and almost all of the discussion since then. Hell, I even posted a duplicated story 10 days ago, I didn’t know that another osnews editor had posted it!
And I am NOT the only one who moderates around here. There are 7 editors who have MODERATING ACCESS to this site.
Stop opening your big mouth FULL of accusations and bullshiting before you get all the facts about who, where and how. Especially when it has to do with me. You don’t know me, you don’t know where I was, and what I could do or could not do from where I was.
> But marketshare really doesn’t make me think “Oh no don’t by this because some company that you don’t know anything about came up with a number saying it wasn’t popular.”
Yes, but that’s you isn’t it? Didn’t effect me either, I just find it annoying that the figures quoted seem so arbitrary. They keep getting smaller and smaller despite the fact that there are heaps of people everywhere saying they just switched or are intending to.
> I believe I’ll still get a TiBook, next year.
I got one last year, I’ll wait until the 970 arrives. ArsTechnical (I think) had an article about it and i believe that it will perform very well. It would be even better if Apple switched to 64bit
But i suppose mac zealots wont even read it becauce their biased on zdnet
>Stop opening your big mouth FULL of accusations and >bullshiting before you get all the facts about who, where and >how. Especially when it has to do with me. You don’t know me, >you don’t know where I was, and what I could do or could not >do from where I was.
Was way nicer here when you were away Eugenia. Sorry to say that but your way to behave with your visitors simply sucks.
Oh come on “Whatever”, she is right.
HAH! And you think that our visitors are behaving GOOD TO ME???
How much PATIENCE do you think a human being has? HOW MUCH? After YEARS writting for online publications and having a whole lot of trolls writting *bullshit*, I am telling you my friend, there is not a whole lot of patience left in me. Everytime someone accuses me falsely of anything, I will reply 100 times meaner! This is a promise. This is how I feel after all these years. I don’t take crap FROM ANYONE.
If ANY of you don’t like it, you are FREE TO LEAVE THIS SITE.
I thought I had remembered reading this article and I looked at the date and it’s almost a year old! It is still on topic though.
CroanoN > Oh come on “Whatever”, she is right.
Probably she is but IMO that is no excusion for bad language or calling your visitors names like she often did in the past and still does. Sorry.
Was way nicer here when you were away Eugenia. Sorry to say that but your way to behave with your visitors simply sucks.
At the moment that your ‘visitors’ are a bunch of thickheaded sonnofa******* it is hard to keep one’s composure when being accused of all evils. Up to last week I would have thought *BSD users are the worst zealots I know, but compared to the MacFlamers in here they are a bunch of nice friendly geeks.
I did not call anyone ‘names’ today, didn’t I?
As for excuses, I have all the excuses of the world I might need. >:(
Thank you Remco. Bull’s Eye.
Many Mac people might read a huge (positive) article and read a single negative line about their favorite OS/company and they will declare the whole thing as being a slant. I am sorry, but I can not and I will NOT put up with such people.
Let’s all take it down a notch here hey?
I don’t think anyone was attacking you directly Eugenia and if they were they have no right to. As you said, there are a number of people working on posting articles and moderating these forums so it’s not as though it’s just you.
As another person in this forum mentioned, these guys just report what they find and that is often sites that *seem* (to me anyway) to be anti-apple or at least negative. If you want to change the content on the site then it is up to you to find objective articles and submit them to OSNews.com. If then you don’t see anything to your satisfaction then you should e-mail and ask what’s going on.
Let’s all just try to keep these forums vaguely on topic hey? and maybe a little less swearing, I mean I’m Australian so it doesn’t bother me but maybe if we swear about stuff instead of at each other that would be better.
Can’t believe you people have so much time to waste on calling the editors biased. Who cares!? I think the golden rule applies here, if you don’t like it, start your own site or go somewhere else! If you want to make a difference, submit stories and be persistent about it. Don’t whine when it doesn’t get picked up.
When it comes to the word “proprietary”, Apple is the only company whose worse than M$. Heaven knows that having some leverage to work *with* Microsoft is the one huge advantage that Apple has over Linux. If they don’t want to take advantage of this, then God help them, but its better for the rest of us. (On a site note, Did you guys try to see Job’s keynote speech through the net last week? Did you know that QT5 was not supported? You *had* to upgrade to QT6.) Anyway, whatever… yes, that’s my response. If Mac users want to support Apple on their decisions then so be it. I don’t really care. Just don’t complain about M$ when Apple could’ve done more to help you out.
Then again, why the hell am I jabbering anyway?
> When it comes to the word “proprietary”, Apple is the only company whose worse than M$
I don’t know if this is true anymore. I think that Apple certainly was one of the worst offenders when it comes to proprietary “standards” in the past but not now. There aren’t many things that they are coming out with that are proprietary are there? By proprietary I mean Apple only BTW.
As for QT6, it’s way better then QT 5 anyway so why are you complaining? I already had QT6, I have to upgrade stuff when I have the chance these days!
Of course they are biased on ZDNet.
ZDNet always writes MS supporting articles, since they are backed financially by MS. They are even housing capitalist idiots like John Carroll.
Sorry John Carroll, Billy the McCarty, MS marketing department, ZDNet, OSNews. Even if you tattoo .NET advertisements on my grandma, I WILL NEVER USE .NET.
How I love Apple and Sun. =)
What I think on Rotor:
Rotor, is just an MS bait for people to trust .NET. Its licence is purely targeted at education usage. It is not possible to create anything commercial with Rotor. And, Rotor really sucks as an implementation.
Was way nicer here when you were away Eugenia. Sorry to say that but your way to behave with your visitors simply sucks.
It’s hard to be polite when your readership attacks you like *this*. Crap, if you want to attack, at least stay on topic and state hard facts as to why this was an unfair article. Hell, do it *now*, we’re listening. What are some reasons that Apple should *not* make their API’s simpler for Windows developers?
If you’ve read Carroll’s other articles on .net, you’d conclude, as I do, he is nothing but a MS captive. That he would say that there is a “lack” of SW for Mac, and that the logical thing for Apple to do is plug their OS into .net, fits into the pattern.
OS News isn’t doing anything put pointing us to the story; consider the source.
Of course John Carroll is an MS PUPPY!
READ THE FOLLOWING FOR INSTANCE:
What I do not understand is why OSNews publish this idiot’s every article as a news bullet.
Phew. World is a strange place.
Wow. I can’t believe how many Mac Zealots there are here acting like children. Makes me ashamed to say I own an ibook.
By my count, it’s nicely divided between the anti-mac and the too enthusiastic mac-ers.
Your observation is a little like sports refs who flag the last offender, he never sees the instigator.
BTW, to counter the bias-
people are playing it up like a huge flame on Macs. I don’t buy it that way. Saying that macs could easily play themselves as the premier computer maker (the Ferraris of the Personal Computer) in the industry is not a pro-windows flame on Macs.
The whole .NET thing is kind of off-base but the idea that Apple should not necessarily distance themselves too much from MS is true. Having MS Office for Macs IS a good thing. Having even that big old slow nasty IE is better than not having it. Being self-reliant and not allowing the core features of an OS provided by a single source is good. Biting the bear you have been riding with the Office suite for so long might not be a good idea.
Apple lost the desktop war a decade ago. Apple may have been technically superior then but most of that advantage has been lost.
Apple has a few choices; consumer electronics, stylish PC clones or go out of business.
Apple was doomed when its market share slipped below 10%, it now has a quarter of that. Within 1-2 years it will be in third place behind Linux on the desktop.
Wisely said… Apple had a chance back then, and they blew it. Today, there is no way they can go against M$, even Linux will soon have more market share mostly due to the fact of being free and having many big companies helping with its development…
Another MS bash : Microsoft claims to have sold approximately 120 Million copies of Windows 95. If every one of those copies crashes or otherwise requires a reboot an average of once per day, and Bill were charged $1 per crash or reboot, his money would last 294.30 days
I own two recent (ie OS X capable) Macs and I don’t care how much market share Apple has. The article writer doesn’t have a clue.
With OS X it’s all UNIX everything developed for Linux works with OS X. There are thousands of developers.
What a load of poop!!
I don’t miss any piece of software and I have the best looking PC and OS around (and it’s different and it supports all the peripherals). iPhoto, Dreamweaver and Apache – can’t get that on Linux or Windows!
I use both Mac (FP iMac with OS X 10.2.3) and Windows (2000 Professional). By trade I’m a .NET/C# developer, but I’m pretty familiar with Cocoa/Objective-C as well. (In fact, I just spent hours writing Ruby code with BBEdit.)
Anyway, I think .NET is the greatest thing Microsoft’s ever done. It doesn’t have that clunky feeling of most Windows development tools, and I guarantee it’s right at home on UNIX, whereas things like the Win32 API just don’t feel right when emulated on anything but Windows.
I think — all things considered — Mac OS X is the greatest OS ever developed.
And I’d love to see the marriage of the two. When I write code in .NET, I keep thinking: This belongs on the Mac. And when I write Cocoa stuff on the Mac, I keep thinking: I wish I were using .NET.
I know I’ll get flamed for this, because the anti-Mac people don’t understand why it’s so great, and the same goes for the anti-.NET people.
how is that # figured. Is that jsut in households or total PC made.
The only area to your opinion that is flawed is that Apple would work with Microsoft instead of Sun. What is so wrong with that? I don’t understand why you hate Microsoft so much. If you hate their products, their editorial said nothing about adopting Microsoft written software but in this case the editorial said nothing about that. It just said Apple would be better off supporting .NET.
And if you hate Microsoft because of business ethics, why do you like Apple all that much? Their business ethics is far more worse, and if it had Microsoft market share and power, they would be in deeper trouble with the courts.
appleforever: Is their another “catch”? Maybe MS will allow it but only if DRM is built into the system. Ever think of that one?
If Apple isn’t planning to develop DRM, it can kiss its Quicktime marketshare good bye soon.
Now, I have read the entire thread, and I read a lot of disagreements. But all of which are complaining about the author being biased, or the developer having other motives or Mordor$oft (a LOTR joke gone way way wrong) is evil etc.
Besides, on the note that ZDnet is biased, it actually depends on the authors. Some authors are biased for Linux, others for Windows, and there are one or two for Mac too. And Microsoft doesn’t fund ZDnet, IIRC it was Ziff Davis Media (ZDnet is owned by CNet).
And as for the love of Apple and Sun, I really have to wonder why you guys are treating them as angels. If given a chance, they were be much much more “evil” than Microsoft, as their trackrecord proven.
Everyone is biased. Every author here is biased. Even Eugenia is biased. But it depends what they are biased for. I don’t see how Microsoft benefits from Apple supporting .NET, yet I don’t see how they won’t.
As for the Mac having enough apps, I disagree. Sure, they have UNIX, but how much apps did they get from it? Getting a full .NET implementation wouldn’t get all Windows apps, but porting apps to the Mac would not only be faster, maintaining two ports would be much cheaper.
Yes, you got your apps covered. A lot of people don’t, however. Everyone driving a car can switch to a Ferrari if given one, but not many can do the same with Macs.
So please, give some technical or business (as in success or not) arguments. Not the rehashed junk you zealots spew out every now and then.
U are the funniest poster here!
Apple is more evil than Microsoft
Some of you take too seriously what you read. When I receive my copies of MacWorld and MacAddict, and they dismiss XP as if it doesn’t exist, I do not take that seriously. If I read PC oriented stories that treat OS X and Apple as a minor annoyance, I don’t take that seriously. These people are writing from the computer worlds they live in. The only thing I object to is false information. Sometimes it is simply out of ignorance (and laziness). Breathe and take it easy!
I can’t believe that many of you are bashing Eugenia. She’s not running OS News anymore, she’s been out of the country for a month (Eugenia, it must have been terrible being in France…let’s see, what did I do that month…oh yes, changed the oil and rotated the tires on my car 😉 and yet you still bash her! You people must be teenagers and have no concept of what happens in life when you’re out of high school.
I believe neither is evil. But if someone says Microsoft is evil, I can use that same justification right back at Apple.
Just because it suggests Apple would be better to support .NET. OSNEWS puts every article for .NET as a news bullet, such as 80 percent of the articles written by the idiot called John Carroll, so, it is expected.
Of course not. Having office for Mac will not make Apple sell more Mac.
Supporting .NET on any platform, is helping MS. Apple knows it very well. Sun + Apple creates such a good synnergy and powerful target against the cheater, stealer, lier, briber, monopolistic company called Microsoft.
MS financed ZDNet and capitalistic idiots who have firms based on .NET such as John Carroll cannot stand it. =)
In the end, .NET is a complete trash and Apple is doing a great job for humanity with not supporting it.
Here is why I like news on OsNews, because it helps me to make the right decisions about my computing needs. Of course I already know too much about computers, but there are cases which I am not sure of, for example macs. I think OsNews really help people to make their mind up when it comes to using Apple.
It is obvious to me that, if you are looking fo speed Apple is not the way to go. If you are looking for ease of use, Apple may be better a little, but overall it seems a very bad choice. If you are looking for design, beauty Apple is good, however I am not in love with my computer. Some idiots and trolls want people to shut up so that they can feel better.
Let’s be rational and throw bias out the Window. Some of you suggest this would be a good thing. That Apple would access a whole world of apps? Really? Which ones? How many commercial .Net apps are there? Does ESRI produce an ArcView.Net? AutoDesk an AutoCAD.Net? Where are all the .Net games?
There simply isn’t a .Net ecosystem yet, Windows supporters, sorry. Yes, those dev’ers working for enterprises that only knew VB are coding in .Net, and yes, major enterprises with a lot of research may be working in .Net instead of Java now. But guess what? 99.9% of the Windows world is still using the Win32 API using C+.
So where’s the benefit? On the other hand, I can tell you where the harm would be… MS refuses to port .Net to other platforms while touting it as crossplatform. That means Apple (a relatively small company) would have to do the work itself, diverting huge amounts of resources. Dev’ers would use the more familiar API (which no one knows how it will perform on the Mac) and abandon their own APIs and programming libraries which they are still just trying to get people to adopt.
If the softies think this is such a great thing, start porting the spec to the Mac. Start porting commercial apps not available on the Mac and other platforms to .Net. Create a reason for this to be an actual benefit instead of just a liability.
“MS refuses to port .Net to other platforms while touting it as crossplatform.”
Actually, even if they wanted to, it is not very much possible, since .NET’s GUI widgets are following Win32’s nightmarish GUI architecture to be compatible. : ) This is one of the reasons why it is not really possible to port WinForms to other windowing systems, such as Gnome’s or KDE’s. .NET is just a stinky crap.
.NET apps can:
a) Invoke platform specific APIs. Because not every Windows API is abstracted into .NET land, most .net apps outthere built on Windows use this factility at least a bit.
b) Access the message queue of the apps windows. Quite a few .NET apps use this facility to do special effects or get fine-grained control the standard SWF architecture wouldn’t normally allow. This kind of integration is built into SWF.
Therefore it’s not possible to actually get the majority of SWF based apps working on anything other than Windows unless you can emulate the Windows messaging system, and apply the behaviours (some of which are buggy or broken) to every control. The only feasable way of doing that is via Wine.
Wine on OS X will not happen for a long time, if ever. It’s enormously complex, would require a CPU emulator to be integrated, as well as porting it from X11 to Quartz. Then you’ve got to tie the Wine API implementations to the Mac equivalents. Finally, the result would still be dog slow and look like a Windows app.
Believe me, Microsoft are not stupid. The portability aspect of .NET was tacked on at the last minute as a marketing exercise, developers want to take full advantage of the power Windows gives them and Gates isn’t going to deny them that. You still need a full implementation of the Win32 platform.
Getting this mad about a computer, I can only imagine what would happen if you caught your significant other having an affair.