Some people (you know who) predicted the Oracle-Google lawsuit would spell doom for Google and Android. Well, turns out this was all a huge fuss over nothing. Oracle’s damages claim started at an idiotic $6 billion – but the final claim is less than $100 million. Oracle’s patent trolling is turning into a huge failure of epic proportions.
Not only damages, but the number of valid Sun/Oracle patents was heavily slashed, so the remaining _one_ will probably be worked around even if they win.
What’s left for them is copyright part, on which they will most likely loose because there is a general consensus that API’s aren’t copyrightable. So the injuction is now very unlikely.
Larry didn’t deserve better over all the damage he had done. And even if the pre-acquisition Sun sued, Google only reused the familiar language and not much else. Sole reason why this lawsuit exists is because they didn’t fork the GPL+classpath version of Java, but used a Harmony implementation and built a custom VM – one thing on which Sun had a lot of IP (but also with a lot of prior art). Sun anyway opted for a Java “giveaway” with GPL-ed version and technically Google was able to build a version of Android based on it, and be protected from both patent and copyright claims.
I wonder how many MS patents would be invalidated had the companies they extorted opted to a courtroom battle. But I understand that having MS the market dominance they have on desktops, it would be counterproductive to risk lose the benefits associated to MS license discounts.
Not to mention, most companies wouldn’t even have the cash to withstand a court battle against Microsoft. That’s the main reason people go along with the extortion – they have no choice. They have to pay up, or close up shop. Only companies like Google can stand up against a company the size of Oracle.
And more, what is the cost of shelved or delayed product development efforts that are put on hold during court proceeding? This “interference effect” in a company’s operations can cause significant reductions in output and ability to bring new ideas to market. Even a failed lawsuit against a company that can afford to fight it might delay a product launch by six months or more, which in many cases could kill the business case to launch the product at all.
I’d love to hear how a win here is a “huge failure of epic proportions”.
I sometimes think Thom got a lot of inspiration from the former Iraqi minister of information. Any Google/Samsung defeat is labeled a “victory” for some strange reason.
From 6 billion and a gazillion patents to a paltry 100 million and 1 patent, which may even be discarded as well. How that is not a victory is beyond me.
Unless, of course, you’re an Apple fanatic.
Edited 2012-03-21 09:41 UTC
Despite you paying attention to this patent stuff or any other court cases for some time you still don’t know how it works. You keep presenting it in a childish good vs bad and I win and you lose scenario. Or worse, “I lost, but I didn’t want to win anyway, so I still got the better of you, nananah”.
They start with a claim of Big X and present as evidence Big Y. Most cases don’t end in a victory for either party, but in a settlement. During the proceedings Big X goes down to Small X and Big Y to Small Y. This sets things up for a settlement both parties agree too and live goes on.
The way things are going, there’s not even going to BE a settlement.
This is nothing but a major defeat for Oracle – 1.5% of your original claim is a huge defeat, strategy or no. Especially when you consider that there’s a fair chance the last patent gets thrown out as well.
If a patent troll loses, then yes, that makes me happy. This is indeed a bad vs. good discussion – software patents are bad, so anything that challenges them is a good thing. I know that as an Apple fanatic, you adore software patents, but virtually everyone else despises them for their destructive effect on the industry.
Do some searching in the comments history and you’ll probably find a number of quotes where I’m in fact very opposed to software patents.
The world isn’t black and white and Apple users aren’t all Steve Jobs clones.
So, you are in fact opposed to Apple’s software patent trolling? You are glad that Apple pretty much lost most of its patent troll cases against Samsung?
That’s a first for me. Good on you.
As I’ve stated much earlier I think Apple is overreacting in a legal sense and considering how well they do product/financial wise and seeing how bad Samsung’s products are I don’t see a reason for them to get in to a fight with a company that’s also a mayor supplier of parts.
Sure Google stole the iOS/iPhone idea, sure Samsung keeps stealing Apple design ideas, but Apple’s getting all the money while the rest makes a mess of it.
Let them rip Apple off in ideas, that’s a safer bet than forcing them to come up with something original that might actually work and be better than Apple’s solution. That’s not likely though, but who knows.
Epic. You, sir, made my day.
and you accuse others of favouritism and being one sided..lol
Edited 2012-03-21 12:33 UTC
Try pointing out something that isn’t true in my statements, it might even make you look more mature than posting a LOL.
is sure worth a LOLOLOL that comment of yours.
is not even worth explaining the falacies of that logic.
Like they say, if you have to explain some things it’s not worth it.
Well, try one statement. Make a cake of the money companies make using smart phones or tablets, or both. Who eats the biggest pie?
People have, you ignored it. So why bother wasting our time again?
Chatting to you is like trying to teach evolution to a creationist.
Edited 2012-03-21 17:08 UTC
No, any arguments by any Apple user are waived off, just because it’s an Apple user.
I have on multiple occasions made it clear I am against software patents, even in discussions that included Thom, yet he says I’m pro software patents just because I’m an Apple user.
Anti-Apple arguments have brought to light some very strange and not-of-this-world claims plus some nifty complot theories. This makes you rather the creationist than me as I base my arguments on facts, logic and real life.
You know full well that it was your “everything else is shit” (to paraphrase) comments which people were arguing against.
Well, that was a radical claim and I’m willing to alter it to “I personaly don’t like most non-Apple gadgets”. Why I don’t is probably in part due to personal taste and experience… but customer satisfaction reports do make is seem I’m in the largest group.
However this whole argument started with our in-house patent expert not knowing how patent cases work and then he projected claims on me based on what type of brand I prefer, which is neither Oracle or Google on which the article is based.
Opinion, not fact. Samsung is the largest smartphone vendor of the world – and Samsung’s margins are growing. Not at Apple levels, yet, of course, but it’s getting there. It’s kind of ironic that supposedly Samsung’s phones are bad, even though the iPhone is like 35% Samsung.
Nonsense. Apple built on a base of technology that already existed (Palm, mostly), and went from there. Even the Newton was a stolen idea – read the book by the founder of GO. Steve Sakoman stole the idea for a portable pen device from Kaplan. Kaplan wanted Sakoman (who worked at Apple) in on the founding of GO, showed him his idea – Sakoman then went back to Apple, demanded loads of funds and full independence… For the Newton project. Back, here’s knife.
Like every other company, Apple is built on stolen technology just as much as everybody else. That’s how the technology industry works – the only company not willing to return the favour is Apple. They steal other people’s ideas and technologies, without wanting to give anything back.
Check Samsung’s figures. They’re not making a mess of it. Up until last quarter, neither was HTC – which even had a larger market share than Apple. I’d hardly call that “making a mess of it”.
I fully understand fran just posting “lol” at your comment, because it was simply wholly and utterly idiotic. Then again – I have come to expect such bullshit from people like you.
Edited 2012-03-21 13:05 UTC
What’s your opinion? Ah, “And I thought TouchWiz was bad.”
Well, let’s say they’re not as good as Apple’s products or else they would lead customer statisfaction.
This is pure nonsense of course. By your logic some species of monkeys should be a lot smarter since they share over 90% DNA with humans.
Which does in no way counter my claim Samsung steals from Apple. Or is Samsung stealing from others and just waited for Apple to do it first to see if it would work?
I was referring to Android, which is a mess compared to iOS and WP7.
Well, you are at his same childish and rude level.
I am the administrator of one of the largest Mac Forums out there, and yet:
1)I have just bought a Samsung Galaxy S2, not an iPhone.
2)I hope there are no zealots like you in my forum.
Did you switch jobs, because last time you were the administrator of a technical forum with 800.000+ users.
Being the admin of a Mac forum doesn’t make you someone who appreciates Apple products. Calling yourself a forum administrator and “anonymous penguin” + some comments you made earlier leads to believe you are in fact a Linux user, who perhaps owns some Apple products.
Also if this is indeed the same forum 800.000 does seem a bit much considering how many Mac users there actually are in the world, but I guess you can reach this number if you count all the dead and double, triple accounts.
How much nonsense all in one post.
Yes, it is the same forum, and yes, we had quite a few unused accounts we deleted.
My nick here dates back several years ago. In the meantime I am not much of Linux fan any longer.
I do own a MacBook Pro and an iPad, but that doesn’t make me a zealot. Nor does it mean that I can’t buy something which isn’t Apple or that I believe everything Apple is far superior and everything else has been stolen from Apple.
It seems my nonsense was pretty spot on.
My next guess, which is a little trickier, would suggest you didn’t actually start or even own this Mac forum, but only administer it. It makes perfect sense to have a Linux person administer a forum site. Were you an Apple user with so much love for this company that you’d start a forum you would like to participate in it, not administer it. Nor would you attack other people who are passionate about Apple.
And I don’t think you should brag about having 800.000+ accounts while only 0.25 % of those visit that forum on a good day given how vibrant and fast the Apple and tech world in general is which would suggest there would be plenty to chat about.
Still, 800.000 is a big number, and even more suspect now it turns out it is a technical Mac forum. Mac users in general are people who create stuff and aren’t actually very technical, unlike Linux people.
So to conclude it doesn’t surprise me that a Linux user buys a phone that runs the Linux kernel.
May I suggest you go work on Wall Street? Because with so few information about things you are pretty good on generating “well thought” conclusions. And you are pretty much certain about what is good and what is not, like the top heads from WS. I am sure you have a brilliant future working there.
Well, I made over 2 million on the stock market, too bad it’s only a simulation game. But I don’t care much for making money.
It’s not that difficult to reach probable conclusions.
You can do it too: guess which company’s stock I used to reach my profit level in the stock trading simulation game.
See, not that difficult.
You can even make good guesses on what device I played this game. With this information you can even make more good guesses.
Guessing what the stock market is going to do is much more difficult, because it doesn’t always, well often even, follow logic.
If company A is the leader in a certain field and posts a loss, a loss created by factors not related to the business itself, stocks of other companies in the same field can go down even though they are doing very well. This makes it hard to predict what will happen, because you can’t judge it just by looking at the market numbers, which in this case would be great.
I’ve heard Nokia’s only Meego device, is excellent above both Android and iPhone and the sales figure way above high of their own Windows phone. So your comment requires an infinite thumbdown for misinformation, not to mention your comment on Google/Samsung stealing from other products.
So you’ve “heard” something about a levitating phone and you can’t even name this device.
Now that’s some award winning argumentation.
Only if Oracle loses will I call this a defeat. If Oracle wins, it’s a major win, one with incredible ramifications. Don’t cry wolf just yet.
MOS6510 already pointed out how you apparently don’t understand how lawsuits and settlement strategies work. If they win their lawsuit, that is certainly not a loss. I guess you think if two teams are playing soccer, and teamA scores, teamB magically gets the point somehow.
Why are you so obsessed with Apple? You’re like a stalker ex-girlfriend with them — watching their every move and constantly talking about them. Whatever you’re so butthurt about, move on already. Life is short.
A lawsuit isn’t a soccer game, it is more like a turn-based strategy game. The thing is, just because Oracle started this dispute doesn’t mean they are the only side which gets a turn. After Oracle has thoroughly fumbled a six billion dollar ball and been left with a poor chance of getting less than a hundred million, Google then gets a turn to get recompense from Oracle for falsely asking for six billion.
Here is a brief introduction to how some of this works:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damages
Uhh wasn’t Google working on Android before the iPhone ever came out?
They bought it in 2005 and released it, IIRC, in 2008.
So probably before 2005 work was done it. It’s hard to tell when Apple started on the iPhone.
Adroid started around 2000ish, most of the claims against it by apple are centered around the change of form factors. Which are moot, since the iPhone also went through different design exploration iterations during its initial development phase.
People here seem to think that even if Oracle only wins $1 million its going to be this great victory. Your missing the point. They may have won the battle, but they lost the war. They started out claiming that Google owed them $6 Billion. Now damages are down to around a million. And its not even over. Google can still push to have the remaining patent ruled invalid if it isn’t by end of the case. Oracle has basically used all its ammunition. Google can now start working on damages from the false claims. Oracle is going to lose money on this, even if they win. And it won’t stop Android in the slightest. But if you want to call that a win for Oracle, then by all means.
Agreed.
What is astonishing to me is how some stubborn heads are so assertive on subjects they don’t have a thorough knowledge or, what is almost the same, they are so on subjects that are full of uncertainty, like the ones linked to economics or law. I guess I should not.