“Robertson isn’t the only one hoping to cash in. Software companies like Red Hat, Mandrake, and Suse all offer Linux products that compete with Windows. But Lindows has a few things those companies don’t: It has Robertson’s bombastic personality to sell it, and it has a better pitch–that it is easier to install and use. Wal-Mart, which began selling Lindows-ready PCs on its website in September, has had such success with the offering that by Christmas it was having trouble meeting demand.” Read the two-page interview with Lindows’ CEO at Fortune. Robertson also appeared on TV.
Lindows – Bringing Linux to the Masses
About The Author
Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
Follow me on Twitter @EugeniaLoli
tell people the same lie enough times and they begin to think it is true.
I tried lindows 2 and 3 and they just dump a tar ball on a partition and in 5 to 7 min. it’s in a KDE world, every piece of hardware get detected and configured – they did a really good job, probably better than windows
but again, you don’t have a lot choices of different package to begin with as they want to charge you for that through Click and Run – that said, it is a decent setup for basic web browsing.
Yawn. I’m sick of people dissing Lindows.
No wonder Linux never gets ahead – even current Linux users (see above) are all too quick to dis their own.
I’ve tried and tried to like this KDE theme there is SOOOO much potential, but what’s up with the BULGES in the buttons? They look STUPID! 🙁 This theme would be top notch if the buttons, etc were rounded properly IE, look closely at the save snapshot button. Maybe it’s just the shadow, but DAMN.
Note the lack of any theme at all in GIMP, so close yet no better than any other KDE centric distro. WAAH THEY BROKE GTK! (kidding) Maybe this one will actually install.
more that build a stable well run and respectable company.
I much prefer Xandros to Lindows, and Xandros has the same easy install, and infact, the infrastructure is build much better than Lindows.
why do I dis Lindows as being a cashin rather than a company? becasue of Click n’ Run. Lindows made an application that covers up APT in order to sell applications that are free.
cd /pub
more beer
How the #$%^ did I manage to post a MDK comment in a Lindows topic lol, of well it still applies.
Look, deb-man, I’m not picking on you personally. I’m just sick of Lindows bashing in general.
It’s not bad for people to make money off of Linux. It’s not bad to sell some of the work you do that complements GPL software. If developers don’t want their work used that way, they shouldn’t friggin release it under a liberal license!
Lindows is doing something no one else is doing, they’re looking at Linux like a business. Even Red Hat doesn’t – their business is their advanced products and their consulting, certification, and support. There’s simply nothing wrong with that.
Lindows also got a deal to sell packaged boxes (not Pee Cees) of Lindows OS 3.0 at Fry’s; They’re getting somewhere.
BTW Aitvo, I hate Keramik’s bulginess as well (especially those default onion bulb titlebars). Bluecurve looks more professional. I use Blucurve+Crystal. Perfect Harmony. Well, almost.
I’m no expert on Lindows, but I can buy XP-home full for less than $100 on the net, and download and install free software for it for a hell-of-a-lot longer than 1 year. The cost of Click&Run is a joke. Sell the OS, not free software.
>>>I’m no expert on Lindows, but I can buy XP-home full for less than $100 on the net, and download and install free software
Its called pirated software or shareware on Windows.
In point of fact, they have some commercial software on c&r. But mostly they’re not selling the software. They are selling the ability to install it hassle free and without having to know any of the details underneath.
>>Over the past two years Linux has spread like a virus through corporate data centers.
I thought that this article was ‘trying to’ um..explain what was happening in the non-M$ world???
…will be a darling for the media, yet bad for Linux. Media-types, especially print “journalists” really dig iconoclastic figures. Erm, Ransom Love, anyone? What remains to be seen is threefold….
1. Will Lindows garner Windows defectors? Can it beat Apple? Since OS/2 is gone for all intents and purposes, he’s really the only game in town for a complete OS aimed squarely at the desktop user. Bring up Mandrake, Xandros, blah blah blah. No, it’s Lindows. Mandrake has a server emphasis, also, and they’re bust. Xandros had its opportunity with another name, and it doesn’t have the mindshare of Lindows. Lindows is *the* desktop competitor to MS for Joe Luser.
2. Will Lindows gain respect of the established Linux community? I don’t think so. IMHO, this was the biggest mistake that Caldera made, what with suggesting per-seat licensing, etc. etc. Lindows already has a big strike against it with the run-as-root-all-the-time thing. And charging for apt-get doesn’t make alot of sense. Even Ximian’s Red Carpet service you *can* get for free. Paying the $$$ gets you StarOffice and access to the fast servers. They also didn’t win any brownie points with the GPL violations during their beta period.
3. Will Lindows contribute back to the Linux community? I haven’t seen anything yet. Even if they do some things which aren’t entirely kosher to the established Linux community, they garner favor if they do things for the community. There quite a few people who don’t like RedHat, or their distro. But RedHat has released so many tools under the GPL, that it’s really unimaginable to think of Linux without them. Looking through my Debian install, I see pump, linuxconf, soundcfg, printtool, just to name a few. In essence, they get a pass for some of their umm…misdeeds because of what they’ve given back to the community.
Now, back to Lindows. I haven’t tried it. It might be quite usable. I have no reason to try it. I like Debian and don’t have a compelling reason to use anything else. I tinker in Gentoo sometimes, too. If I was going to try anything, it’d be RedHat 8.0, followed by Mandrake 9.1 when it’s released. Lindows isn’t on my list yet.
Microsoft = Bill Gates
Apple = Steve Jobs
Linux = <strike>Linus Torvalds</strike> Michael Robertson
Its called pirated software or shareware on Windows.
Why do people assume that anything that runs on Windows that isn’t shareware/commercial is pirated? While it’s quite true that there is a lot more free stuff on Linux, a good chunk of that is just crap that most people wouldn’t pay for to begin with.
The only thing that’s going to bring Linux to the masses is a mircale. I truly wish all the OS zealots would drop the whole *nix thing and come up with something useful, instead of continually trying to teach a cat how to play fetch. Yes, Apple did the impossible, but hackers will never do what Apple did, so long as they can’t agree on a single damn thing other than the fact that they hate MS.
Haha, great post Darius! 🙂
was $129 seemed pretty steep although RH8 pro is 140 some odd dollars
I’m tired of people dissing Lindows too. If someone is trying to get some action going for Linux on the desktop and also tries to do what is “kosher” in the Linux world, those two things would cancel each other out.
What another poster said above is right – Lindows is selling hassle-free Linux. I love BlueCurve, I really like Lycoris, but it’s Lindows that’s making noise and putting Linux in the hands of ordinary users. Now that takes some doing and takes some moxie to pull off.
By the way, you don’t have to run as root anymore.
Yes, Apple did the impossible, but hackers will never do what Apple did, so long as they can’t agree on a single damn thing other than the fact that they hate MS.
I beg to differ. Apple’s use of Unix is to make up for the areas where the rest of the OS falls short. The modular design on top of the microkernel allows for that.
As for Linux/*BSD, there are quite a few things in *nix which were good ideas 30 years ago, but stupid today. And not everybody hates MS….I don’t. I don’t particularly like their software. I certainly don’t like their unconscionable licensing terms. What I hate is that I foresee a time where there won’t be a choice other than MS. If others’ hatred of MS generates software I can use, that’s okay by me. It doesn’t need to be a combined effort. I don’t care what the other guy’s motivation is, really.
There is no “one true” OS. There is no “one true” desktop. Use what you like, and support it. For me, I like GNU/Linux. I recommend it where it’s appropriate. There are situations where it’s not the right tool for the job. There I recommend something else.
I also like the hurd. But that’s another story altogether, now isn’t it? If the collectivist attitude you’re endorsing had been in vogue, the Linux kernel wouldn’t have gone past version 2.0, and we’d finally be running the Hurd. Instead, people used what worked and what they liked. Hmmph. Funny how that works.
“As for Linux/*BSD, there are quite a few things in *nix which were good ideas 30 years ago, but stupid today.”
Care to back that up at all?
While some of the POSIX system calls might look a bit funky due to legacy, the Unix philosophy is damn solid.
Care to back that up at all?
Oh, sure, no problem. Well, one that’s quite pertinent is the whole root thing. With the exception of MS’s “business” products (NT, 2k, and XP Pro), ordinary users can mess with the basic settings of the system without much fuss. Having an omnipotent user on a multiuser server makes sense. It doesn’t make much sense on a PC where only one user can be logged in at a time (and don’t start with the virtual consoles, blah blah blah….two hands, one keyboard is what I’m talking about). It gets downright annoying to have to either su or edit my fstab to mount a cdrom.
The monolithic kernel also is dated. No consumer-grade OS should require an end user to recompile a kernel. Yet, that’s what’s required under Linux/*BSD. Write a tight little microkernel that provides basic services (IO, memory management, IPC, etc), and have device drivers in user land.
OSX operates much this way. XP has umm…modules if you will, that require a reboot to use.
So there are areas where things could be improved.
IFightMIB’s,
The things you would like to see change will never become,
these are reason for me the USE Linux.
I do not want, a an “normal” to change my
system time and or load hardware modules and/or change my
network settings. This has to do with security also, imagine what
a virus or backdoor program can do under Windows ALLVERSIONS.
Even a normal program can destroy your system.
This is the Unix way and i do not want it to change.
You always can login as root or make a user that has the same
rights as root…or you can use Lindows there you are always root.
Now Robertson has a new fight on his hands, this time with an opponent that makes the recording industry look like a 98-pound weakling
Well, actually, the RIAA and the IFPI are far more stronger than Microsoft.
Instead of developing proprietary code, Robertson has taken advantage of the free Linux operating system and its legion of freelance programmers to cobble together his product.
True, while LindowsOS is based on Linux, and most of the code in under open source licenses, code written by Lindows.com is closed source. There’s nothing wrong with that, but the first 5 words are rather misleading.
But don’t count Robertson out just yet.
Too late.
the increasing popularity of Linux and the increasing frustration with Microsoft.
The increasing frustration with Microsoft is with the new licensing plans for the corporate market and Microsoft (lack of) security. Neither which is properly taken advantage by Lindows.com.
And Sun has poured millions of dollars into its Star Office software suite, which gives Linux users programs that work like–and more important, are compatible with–PowerPoint, Word, and Excel.
True, but how good is StarOffice? I haven’t heard of StarOffice success in the market place in a long time. Plus, accroading to Sun some time ago, Windows is StarOffice primary target market.
Starting with Office 2000, the company put padlocks on its software, preventing it from being installed on more than one machine.
Actually, such “padlocks” existed a long time before that. It was only Office 2000 where Microsoft *tries* to enforce it via copyright-protection. Besides, I doubt there were many companies prior to Office 2000 to have subcumb to casual piracy with the always-present threat of a BSA raid.
The idea was to stamp out piracy; instead it stamped out what had become commonplace among home and small-business users: using one copy on multiple PCs.
Actually, the idea was to stamp out casual piracy. Microsoft knows for a fact that combating piracy as in cheap CDs in Shanghai is impossible.
But Lindows has a few things those companies don’t: It has Robertson’s bombastic personality to sell it, and it has a better pitch–that it is easier to install and use.
The people who probably would adopt Linux anytime soon is the corporate market. I doubt they make business decissions, especially one that would cost them a lot of money, because of a opportunistic man’s personality.
While talking about the corporate market, what part of LindowsOS ease of use that would appeal to them? Installation? Most of the time, especially for larger companies, they install one copy, and make copies of it for each PC (duplication). Or Click-n-Run? Yes, I can just see the sysadmin weeping cause he can’t install StarOffice without it on Red Hat.
Wal-Mart, which began selling Lindows-ready PCs on its website in September, has had such success with the offering that by Christmas it was having trouble meeting demand.
Guess where Wal-Mart targets? Yes, the *consumer* market. Guess which market the article started with? Yes, the *corporate* market.
Besides, I can make one machine running Shit OS 1.0 and recieve 2 orders for that machines, I can claim I was having trouble meeting demand. There is no numbers of PC sold by Microtel, nor was there numbers on how many sold with LindowsOS as opposed to Mandrake or Lycoris.
“In every business sector there is always room for a low-cost provider,”
Actually, no. Take the diamond mining industry for example, there is no low-cost provider. Besides, there is always one distinching between businesses targeting the higher-cost market and those targeting the lower-cost maker – lower-cost normally is cheap and underfeatured.
“He’s not even that good.”
Ahh… a under-statement. Sorry, just had to make that cheap-shot.
“Software business plans are a waste of time,” he says. “The time it takes to write one is always better spent writing and testing the software. Then you have real results rather than marketing projections.”
To fail to plan is to plan to fail. Writing a business plan barely takes a week if you are really into that market. You just need to survey your target market, get survey results from guys like IDC, write a initial product plan and the distribution of resources.
Microsoft, by contrast, charged $100 per machine, says Hindman. “Lindows did everything they could to make it happen,” he says.
That price speaks volumes of Microtel’s volume.
They wanted cheap PCs.
Yet still, the average price of a PC sold is $800. Besides, $500 a month to charge Microtel is a wee bit low for Lindows.com to declare a profit. Lindows.com would have to go down to extremely low profit margins, which means they must have a extremely large market. They don’t.
“They’re as good as Dells for half the price,” he says.
But the lowest-end Dell have at least twice the RAM, the CPU speed twice that of ultra-slow VIA C3, and at least have a ethernet card. Besides, if your machines crash somehow, how fast is Dell going to replace parts?
He’s hoping Lindows consumers will then pony up $99 a year for unlimited downloading at a Lindows site full of Linux software. Among the offerings are Sun’s Star Office, which typically sells for $80, and thousands of other Linux titles.
Most of them are actuallyt part of the standard KDE distribution. So if I would to deploy Linux in any office, LindowsOS wouldn’t be one of the choices. Mainly because I could get StarOffice sit licensing at a cheaper price, plus machines that have some quality in them, and overall, I won’t be paying for something I don’t need: Robertson’s flamboyant personality.
Click & Run Warehouse divides the Linux world into neat shopping aisles with automatic downloads and installs.
Something I don’t think is a strong
“Oh, sure, no problem. Well, one that’s quite pertinent is the whole root thing. With the exception of MS’s “business” products (NT, 2k, and XP Pro), ordinary users can mess with the basic settings of the system without much fuss. Having an omnipotent user on a multiuser server makes sense. It doesn’t make much sense on a PC where only one user can be logged in at a time (and don’t start with the virtual consoles, blah blah blah….two hands, one keyboard is what I’m talking about). It gets downright annoying to have to either su or edit my fstab to mount a cdrom.”
I would much rather deal with the su’ing then re-installing the enitre OS because of some stupid mistake that wiped out critical systems because some user wanted to experment or because of a virii decided to wipe out my home and root directory.
Adam Scheinberg: No wonder Linux never gets ahead – even current Linux users (see above) are all too quick to dis their own.
How is Lindows.com our own? Do we get any of the profit they make? Do we get any of the code they code? Nope and nope. They are a company, stop thinking otherwise.
It’s not bad to sell some of the work you do that complements GPL software.
What about selling work of others, hacked around, using a brand name that draws from another competitive product’s familarity?
Adam Scheinberg: Even Red Hat doesn’t – their business is their advanced products and their consulting, certification, and support.
How much of this differs from Lindows.com? Except on consulting and certification and advance products, Lindows.com survives on their services and support.
anopenscroll: Lindows also got a deal to sell packaged boxes (not Pee Cees) of Lindows OS 3.0 at Fry’s; They’re getting somewhere.
Mandrake got a deal to sell their boxes at 7-11 in Taiwan, would that make them successful?
GetOutOfHere: Its called pirated software or shareware on Windows.
Not nessecarily. I can get Windows XP Home for less than $100 when I buy a machine, and download all the tools I would really need, like OpenOffice.org.
IFightMIBs: Xandros had its opportunity with another name, and it doesn’t have the mindshare of Lindows. Lindows is *the* desktop competitor to MS for Joe Luser.
Being extremely flamboyant and making claims on their products that isn’t true doesn’t create mindshare. While Xandros is more quieter in the press, they also hardly get any negative press. We won’t know for sure who would win in the end (I would think Red Hat actually) because it is impossible to see how they do with their actions today.
Besides, Robertson many times in his articles and interviews say that LindowsOS is targeted towards the corporate market, not consumer. Meaning that Red Hat has more potential of succeeding because in the world of CIOs and IT managers, Red Hat = Linux.
IFightMIBs: And charging for apt-get doesn’t make alot of sense.
Actually, it isn’t apt-get.
IFightMIBs: RedHat has released so many tools under the GPL, that it’s really unimaginable to think of Linux without them.
I’m okay with Red Hat investing in things like sending developers to work on Linux, GNOME, etc. But making everything they write as GPL makes little sense to *me*, from the business perspective.
Darius: Yes, Apple did the impossible, but hackers will never do what Apple did, so long as they can’t agree on a single damn thing other than the fact that they hate MS.
Actually, many open source advocates can’t agree on which part of Microsoft they hate. 🙂
Actually, some time ago, people said that Linux has no chance in servers as long they can’t agree on a single damn thing. Guess what? 10% in the server market, and they still hardly agree on a single damn thing.
AC: was $129 seemed pretty steep although RH8 pro is 140 some odd dollars
RH Pro gives a lot lot lot lot lot lot lot more than CNR. Other than documentation on how to use the software, it also gives documentation on how to manipulate and configure their installation.
IFightMIBs: OSX operates much this way.
OS X offers “tight” microkernel archtecture? Nah, Darwin is darn slow. Now as for recompiling, I never once was forced to recompile my kernel. Not once. Yet I have done it a thousand times mainly because I want to. It really depends on the distribution you are using.
Crigley’s dream have come true.
MS will be running Windows on top of Linux.
http://www.mslinux.org/
HAHAHAHAHAHA
I don’t like lindows strategy.
I like the idea of selling their operating system, but I don’t like the ideia of be a member to download software to my lindows using click-and-run.
First, if I don’t have a modem in my PC and internet, I don’t have software to my lindows, because I need to use click-and-run to download it to that PC.
Second, if I have two PC’s then I must to download to one and then to the other (2x more time). Imagine this situation with a modem 28Kb/s or 56Kb/s
Thirth, if I became a member I have lindows, and all the software to download, but the member user only have 1 or 2 year to download software, then he must became a member again, and pay a variable value… What I mean is if I pay today for example $100 tomorrow I will pay $200 or $300…
For now to became a member ship I pay a value X, but if lindows have sucess I will pay a value Y (a big price)… You know what I mean.
Resume: I don’t like that idea of click-and-run!!!
Important Note: They distribute the staroffice in lindows 3, but I need to USE click-and-run to install it (this is not a problem), the problem IS: I need to be a member and need a modem with internet to install IT!!!
I prefer XANDROS or REDHAT or SUSE or … other operating system that I install and if I want the software I search for free software or buy software for it and install.
I would like to ear your opinion about this message…
I would like to see that
no more comments…
I wish Lindows and Michael Roberts all the best. Folks, as long as Linux doesn’t control the desktop, this is _not_ a zero sum game, so no need to get you knickers in a twist even if you don’t like Lindows. One more Lindows user probably means one less MS Windows user, whereas for instance one more Debian user usually means one less Red Hat/SuSE/Mandrake user.
“I would much rather deal with the su’ing then re-installing the enitre OS because of some stupid mistake that wiped out critical systems because some user wanted to experment or because of a virii decided to wipe out my home and root directory.”
The user, at home, would want to do some things as root anyway, right (like running xmame full screen)? And what if he wipes something while he’s root ? Or he gets a virus while playing with xmame ?
Not that I disagree with what your comments are Darius and this is slightly off topic … But my cat does play fetch …
Stop crapping on about nothing. There is no need to “recompile the kernel” to install drivers or replace services.
As for Windows 2000/NT, it is a hybrid micro/monolythic kernel design. MICRO KERNEL’S DO NOT WORK! repeat that to yourself, again, MICRO KERNEL’S DO NOT WORK! There have been only a few handful of companies who have actually produced something that is or reasonable performance and stability based on the micro kernel concept.
As for the fstab bullshit, there is NO REASON why a user needs access to a CD-ROM on a work related computer. If they want software installed, that is the job of the IS staff, NOT THE USER, the user is there to USE the computer to carry out their role in the organisation, NOT to be Joe or Jane part time IS person.
>>>I’m no expert on Lindows, but I can buy XP-home full for less than $100 on the net, and download and install free software
>>Its called pirated software or shareware on Windows.
He means OpenOfffice, Koffice, Abiword, Phoenix, Emacs, Gvim or whatever for Windows – free legal download and installation under the GPL
“Its called pirated software or shareware on Windows.”
Uh no, its called OpenOffice.org, AbiWord, ZoneAlarm, AVG antivirus. So I can have a full featured Office suite, AV, and firewall for free…
Total that up and you still only hit about $100 for XP home.
These can be found by doing a very simple Google for Free “whatever”.
Wow, where have you been all these years? Linux runs on just about everything (okay, has trouble with the peripherals, but that’s not the point), and the “hackers” have made impressive gains over the last 5 years-windows games run, there is a viable office alternative, and the OS scales easily from the desktop to the server.
The hackers have done it, and better from a business standpoint as well. Why do you think Goldman Sachs told Microsoft to be afraid? Because the hackers can’t touch them? Wake up!
Gee, Micheal Robertson take code that is freely available to everyone on cheap hardware for the half cost of the competing OS with office. He’s exposed the masses, and by that I do mean masses, the Wal-Mart shopper, to Linux, and that’s a great thing.
If it’s branded, so what? So is RH, Mandrake and Suse, and all the others. Linux is, as is so frequently said, the core kernel. The distros are all simply brands. They all have thier own looks, logos, and the like-what’s so wrong about Lindows having their own icons, etc.?
God forbid anyone should make money on open source! There is a distro for the zealots-run debian. THe rest of the companies, like red hat, want paying customers, thank you very much.
You do ot have to run as root anymore – you can set up user accounts right after installation.
Lindows has nothing to do with people who want to use RH, Gentoo, etc. It is for average users, not for people who like to fiddle with their Linux set up.To those average users, the Click N Run Warehouse is the whole deal – totally hassle free, you don’t have to know anything about dependencies.
I can’t understand why people post in this thread about how they use RH or Gentoo. Lindows target user is not that kind of user.
“(like running xmame full screen) ”
THAT is the problem to solve. In these argument, one of the “make everyone root” persons sooner or later comes with an example where user needs to su for a certain task but the requirement provides no advantage to the security, useability whatsoever. Your is one such example. But, as always, the problem is not with the model but with the implementation. Full screen capability of X should be avaliable to every user without making everyone superuser all the time. There is NO reason why it shouldn’t.
The traditional UNIX security model has its flaws, but ACLs (already in 2.5, patches exist for 2.4 and red hat to ship with) solve many of them. Once the root is also eliminated (ala NSA’s secure linux) there will be no flaw I’m aware of left.
I believe that they distribute a CD with the click & run software on it, so you don’t have to download it.
Yes, but I need to be a MEMBER and need to have modem with internet…
rajan r:How is Lindows.com our own? Do we get any of the profit they make? Do we get any of the code they code? Nope and nope. They are a company, stop thinking otherwise.
Ha. Naivete at it’s best. Anyone who promotes the commercial success of Linux that doesn’t like Lindows is a hypocrite, plain and simple. I know they’re a company, I’m trying to explain that to you – why do you think you deserve profit or code? If they further Linux, then as a Linux proponent, you benefit.
What about selling work of others, hacked around, using a brand name that draws from another competitive product’s familarity?
You’re just wrong. Click N Run isn’t the work of others. In fact, the stuff Lindows.com writes isn’t GPLed. I’m sick of this conversation.
How much of this differs from Lindows.com? Except on consulting and certification and advance products, Lindows.com survives on their services and support.
Lindows.com survives on their licensing deals, their CNR sales, and their OS sales. I’ve never even heard of Lindows.com consulting or pay support.
Arguing about Lindows makes me tired. I don’t know why everyone spends so much damn energy hating them. It seems IT geeks love to hate.
Eugenia..
this wasn’t an interview.. this was a commentary with a few snipits from mr. robertson..
And yes Lindows has contributed quite a bit of code back to the (ungrateful whiny) OS community.
Let me explain why i think people get so bitter about Lindows. It’s really rather plain and simple.. they didn’t think of it first. I personally, am madder than hell that this Mr. Robertson just walked into the linux world, started a company.. and has been making it a success.. it’s frustrating.. because I’m not doing it. Does it mean I hate lindows? Hell no.. in fact, the guy is brilliant.. if anything he’s the king of creating a media frenzy.. and he knows how to market his product.. I may be jealous.. but i certainly don’t hate lindows. They are doing a good thing, advancing linux as a possible desktop competitor. Don’t shoot them down, encourage them.. just put your bitterness and jealousy on the shelf.
<this is an opinion.. don’t waste your time flaming me>
I am with Adam on this. If you love Linux, than any success, however achieved, must be considered a positive.
If you don’t want your code taken outright, then release it under any other license than the GPL: LGPL, BSD, APACHE, Creative Commons, Proprietary, Shareware, whatever. Those who chose code bases, or create code, that others, who are better positioned to achieve income from that code, can simply use it for their own needs have no reason to complain.
Face it-you live and die by the ideals you support.
You do understand that the BSD license allows me to take your code and use it anyway that I’d like right? All I have to do is leave a comment somewhere in the code that you wrote it. The GPL is only bad to those that don’t understand how licenses really work. If you don’t want your code taken outright don’t release it as BSD. A little understanding of license models goes a long way.
http://www.opensource.org/licenses/bsd-license.php
If you don’t like it, don’t buy it. The market is big enough to give every strategy a try-out.
Just for god’s sake, will you all quit yer whinging.
I somewhat recall a nice line (but I can’t recall where) and to paraphrase: the average Linux geek complains about freedom of choice all the way to the 3.99 bin at the local big box electronic retailer.
Have all three of these products, and have played with all of them.
By FAR the easiest to install and use immediately is Xandros. I bought it on a special-deal from them for around $70. I’ve tried it on every reasonable platform I can find. It finds all the devices and installs all the drivers. NO problems with it.
Can’t say the same for Lindows 3.0…it wouldn’t even install on a plain-vanilla Dell Optiplex GXa……and Lycoris…no thanks.
Yes, I was just illustrating alternatives to the GPL.
” I somewhat recall a nice line (but I can’t recall where) and to paraphrase: the average Linux geek complains about freedom of choice all the way to the 3.99 bin at the local big box electronic retailer. ”
I somewhat recall a nice line about a pot calling a kettle black, or what is something about stereotyping? I know what it was. Those who live in glasses houses… Nope that wasn’t it either. Oh wait, now I remember. Take you informed comments about what the “averge linux geek” does and file them under “moronic generalizations” that anyone with a clue would never say.
Pros
—–
A linux distro as easy as windows. (Other distros are geting easier to)
The click & run feature is cool.
Cons
—–
It runs as root by defualt. (big security risk)
$99 a year for click & run!!
[you]Oh, sure, no problem. Well, one that’s quite pertinent is the whole root thing. With the exception of MS’s “business” products (NT, 2k, and XP Pro), ordinary users can mess with the basic settings of the system without much fuss. Having an omnipotent user on a multiuser server makes sense. It doesn’t make much sense on a PC where only one user can be logged in at a time (and don’t start with the virtual consoles, blah blah blah….two hands, one keyboard is what I’m talking about). It gets downright annoying to have to either su or edit my fstab to mount a cdrom. [/you]
If you have set up your fstab that way, you obviously don’t know what you’re doing. Normal users do not need to be root to use CDs.
As far as root at home goes, it has many uses. Parents don’t want their kids messing with the hardware settings or accidentally deleting or editing someone else’s files. And here’s where Unix has an advantage: you only need to remember one password for root instead of having to set passwords for the control panel, filtering software, games, etc. XP Home even has this capability sort of. Unfortunately, it’s disabled at default.
If Microsoft would bother to teach people about the value of the root or Administrator user, it’d be a great thing.
If I were a straight (i.e. Joe or Jane Doe kind of computer user) coming in here for the first time to learn about Lindows or Linux, I’d leave with the knowledge that Linux will never be my OS of choice on my system and here’s why…
…After reading every single post (and most posts most other days too) the one constant is the elitist, holier-than-thou-you-non-coding-non-geek attitude. This is followed very closely by the ceaseless nit-picking at the smallest of flaws of your favorite *nix flavor as well as the internicene combat between users of various distros.
For ANY Linux distro to get to the desktop and stay there, it’s going to REQUIRE the ease of supermarket shopping to lure Joe and Jane User’s attention from Windows. Lindows and Lycoris to a lesser extent are doing this. Lindows is getting sales because it’s dead cheap to buy, dead easy to install and dead simple to install to. They’re making money, which seems to be about as popular here as a nudist in church. Moans about Michael Robertson et al ‘being in it for the money’? Well what do you think programmers, plumbers and caterers are in it for? Food stamps? Do any of you work hard and then give your check away to the first ‘Will Work For Food’ cardboard artist? You stick it in the bank, pay bills and enjoy your indoor plumbing. Profit is NOT a dirty word. Lindows makes money by selling a basic OS, and then more money selling add-ons. Hmmm. Anybody here ever buy a car? How about a PC? Did they come loaded with everything or did you pay extra for the options you wanted. Lindows uses the SAME ****ing MODEL you don’t think two cents about any other time.
Next, let’s aim the spotlight at elitism. Oh, yes, it has a home in Linux-land. What I hear is “If you don’t code/compile/command line then you ain’t ***t”. Really? C’mon, buy a clue! The world at large – the people who have better things to do than learn to run this supposedly user-friendly OS via a command line? the people who just dragged home after a long work day? – the WORLD wants to sit in front of their screen and just.use.the.thing. They just want it to work. And that’s bad, right? Windows succeeds, and Apple, too, because you can sit down and use ’em, imperfect as they may be. But the Linux-for-geeks crowd screams out loud and proud “Linux for the people (as long as WE are the people)!” No matter what distro you champion, if you want to see it on desktops you’ve got to sell it to the people.
And now, the finding of fault…with every little thing. I recall a post moaning about how the shadows on button in a KDE theme weren’t perfectly round but oval-shaped and how this needed to be rectified in order to that person to like it. SHADOWS ON ****ING BUTTONS??? Get over it. The fine folks at KDE probably use your face on their dartboard (well, Nixon is SO passe!). What does obsessing over minor stuff accomnplish for you? Exactly nothing. Sure, you can post your childish whine here as many of you do and surely will continue to do. But it really IS cheaper to keep it to yourself and to use this forum to discuss, not dis or dismiss.
Last, but not least, the Distro Wars. How many times have I seen a post berating another persons support of a distro they regard as dead/pointless/useless? I recall one where a BeOS/YellowTAB Zeta user was essentially flamed for not supporting the other persons’ Linux distro. Boy and girls, we can do the ‘my dad can beat up your dad’ dance all we want and in the end the song remains the same. There are several hundred thousand BeOS users in the world actively using one of the best pieces of software to come along, ever. It’s activley developed for and updated. Again, this is bad – why? Be or BSD or fill-in-the-blank. What works for you works for you. Love your OS. Use it. But, in the end, the true measure of an OS is its user base, if not it’s financial success.
And so, this brings me full circle to where I began. Stop scaring the straights. Joe and Jane User should come away from here knowing more about Linux, etc. than they did. They shouldn’t come away knowing they aren’t wanted. Want Linux to rule the world? Conquer Joe User’s checkbook first.
It’s nice to see a version of Linux that’s trying hard to be easy to use. Installing software and hardware drivers is my biggest problem with Linux, even more annoying than the lack of a consistent GUI IMO. Unfortunately I hate the lack of choice with Lindows, much of the software I would want to install isn’t available with Click and Run.
What a great post.
Thank you!!
“And now, the finding of fault…with every little thing. I recall a post moaning about how the shadows on button in a KDE theme weren’t perfectly round but oval-shaped and how this needed to be rectified in order to that person to like it. SHADOWS ON ****ING BUTTONS??? Get over it. The fine folks at KDE probably use your face on their dartboard (well, Nixon is SO passe!). What does obsessing over minor stuff accomnplish for you? Exactly nothing. Sure, you can post your childish whine here as many of you do and surely will continue to do. But it really IS cheaper to keep it to yourself and to use this forum to discuss, not dis or dismiss. ”
If you don’t like my opinion don’t fucking read it. Karamik looks like something that came out of my ass when it can look like a picasso with just 10 minutes of editing. That’s my opinion, and I’m fucking entitled to it so get over it. You sure are closed minded for a “free thinker”.
If you don’t like his opinion, don’t read it. If you don’t like my opinion, don’t read it.
heh