Apple Computer originally created its new Keynote software to allow its boss, Steve Jobs, to make it through speeches without a hitch. But now that the company has released the presentation program to the public, early customers say it is anything but bug-free. Some from people who say the program is the first they have used that can bring Apple’s Mac OS X operating system to its knees. “I’ve never had any OS 10 app crash the whole system before,” reads a posting from “Yikesboy.”
Mac Users Find Glitches with Keynote
2003-01-23 macOS 34 Comments
It’s a V.1.0 that crashes sometimes. Apple will release a patch to fix it, that’s it. I foresee a lot of angry posts telling Eugenia is anti-apple 🙂
It’s software, it’s not infallible, this things happen all the time. However I think Keynote is a really nice app.
I like that apple is offering this possibility to their customers even if it is temporally buggy.
Overall this is very positive
>”I’ve never had any OS 10 app crash the whole system before,”
> I foresee a lot of angry posts telling Eugenia is anti-apple 🙂
Then, these people should read the last few articles on Apple/OSX and they will see that it is not the case. I post good and bad things on Apple, depending what is on the news every day. As with any other OS. Depends what interesting news we have every day.
And these people, should read my replies on a linux story where I clearly said that Linux is nowhere OSX in user experience.
As for this news item, it is already on all big *Mac* news sites already, so I see no reason people to troll over this news item.
As for “it’s just 1.0”, I suggest you read Fuzzball’s comment here:
I have to agree with your statement Eugenia, more than Fuzball. Once you charge for it better be as solid as humanly possible. Now if it was a beta like Safari, I could be more forgiving.
I have been using Keynote exclusively on my first generation iBook Dual USB without a problem. It has been stable and a vast improvement over Powerpoint in terms of stability, scalability, and features. I love the alignment guides. I love the transitions and pure Quartz typography. I have had 5 people receive Keynote and only rave its features and stability. I would argue that News.com didn’t get a wide audience for this article. There are a lot of happy customers, and I am no Mac fanatic. I think Powerpoint still does some things better like image imports and automatic resizing. I also think Powerpoint’s ability to type in outline view and it automagically creates the slides is pretty slick too. Keynote is a 1.0 product that needs some shine, but it is not as crappy as the article makes it sound. I have old hardware (256 MB RAM, 500 Mhz G3, Rage 128 w/ 8 MB VRAM) and it runs great for me.
Yes Keynote is not perfect yet. But was PowerPoint v1.0 perfect? Probably not (I did not have the pleasure or agony of using it). As usual as well, CNet is portraying Apple in a negative light. I can see the flames coming from this statement but look at past Apple stories on that website. They are mostly negative. So, take that story with a grain of salt and be prepared to have problems with Keynote. I however have not had a problem since I first got it.
…And I’m not kissing Apple’s behind either.
All I know is I see about 4 or 5 threads about a serious occurance. In these threads, there are maybe 2 or 3 people experiencing the problem. So I’ve seen discussion where a total of 15 or so people are screaming their doodads of, while 2 0r 3 people with the same configuration are saying they experience no problem.
There also happen to be another 50-70 discussions which are either about sharing features, rave reviews, requests for new features (but people shouldn’t have expected if they did test the software), and a few glitches which are minor and/or resolvable.
30 or 40 people maybe out of many thousands? Considering how stupid some people are? the screwed up things they’ll do to their own systems? etc? Come on! Apple is responsible for the quality of their software, but this is hardly MASSIVE! The odds are some of these idiots are in fact responsible for their own problems in some instances.
(It’s funny–the disc that Eugenia points to… No one including Fuzzball documents a legitimate problem (except a minor one FROM the Mac-apologist); and there is one rave review. Eugenia, did you purchase Keynote, or did you just want to get your opinion in?)
> Eugenia, did you purchase Keynote, or did you just want to get your opinion in?
Why do I need to purchase anything just to say that software that gets sold should be stable? What if I was to buy it and with these news all over the net I changed my mind?
You are the Apple apologist here, not me. A company has no excuse to sell buggy software. All software has bugs of course, but the line is drawed on “how many, how severe” and “does it take the system down with its crash”?
I bought an iBook thinking perfect hardware, and UNIX!!!
What I got was a product that crashes (THE WHOLE SYSTEM — it is possible), when I do a slideshow in iPhoto (crashes the system once a week or so), DVD (crashes it every two weeks or so), and even once or twice from the terminal. I sent it back to apple, they said there were no problems, sent it back…
So two days ago I sent $$$ to “switch” back. I liked the idea, and hope that apple can pull it together.. (I “switched” my ibook to debian after apple said nothing was wrong and yet it continued to crash, since then no crashes…)
Of course millage will vary.
UNIX == Stability == OSX
I tought UNIX is something that can’t bee killed.
I have been running DOS for past 5 years without rebooting.
Try to beat this….
UNIX – on your knees baby….
BeOS or XP is the way to go
Those users who complain that the software from Apple is buggy are actually anti-Apple people. lol
Wonder how long it’ll take for the flames to begin. Fire suits to the left. Extiguishers to the right. LOL.
Back on topic. Basically we just are sayign that you need to make sure your app is stable and bug free as possible before you charge for it. Thats all. No matter it is Apple, Microsoft, or Redhat. I understand stuff happens though… but that is why you keep things beta for so long… to make sure your product is solid.
“Why do I need to purchase anything just to say that software that gets sold should be stable? What if I was to buy it and with these news all over the net I changed my mind?
You are the Apple apologist here, not me. A company has no excuse to sell buggy software. All software has bugs of course, but the line is drawed on “how many, how severe” and “does it take the system down with its crash”?”
Exactly.. Especially this is the case if Uncle Steve (cult leader) claims this puppy was written for him, and how he was being nice to share it with everyone else.
I find Keynote absurdly limiting (In the true Apple fashion)..
I have to admit, I am not very happy with Keynote. I’m not really a fanatic on any platform, but overall OS X is my current favorite. (Got sick of Sun and their shenannigans over Solaris 9 x86)
Anyway, back to Keynote. I have had alot of problems importing PPT, it hoses up the theme, and does not cleanly import all of the formatting.
My other issue with Keynote is that it can’t read in PPT template files (.pot). The company that I work for happens to publish a template which we are all expected to use. (Marketing/Branding, etc) I’ve not had the energy to build the Keynote template which is compatible, wish it would just load the .pot file.
Overall, I’ve found that OS X has allowed me to ditch both my x86 lappie and Ultra5, but there are a few hitches in the “Just works” mantra. If there was a Visio replacement, that would be the main thing. Keynote using .pot files would be another big plus.
“Why do I need to purchase anything just to say that software that gets sold should be stable? What if I was to buy it and with these news all over the net I changed my mind?”
I ask out of curiosity. Anyone can do what they darn well please. But I bet you haven’t, and like a million other cranks with an opinion, you are diving in to express your slant on a knowledge base discussion thread. You probably don’t think, and we’ll say you aren’t, an idiot, or anti-Mac, or overreactive, right? But do you think some people out there might be? What stops them from posting?
I think anyone who takes a few “anonymous” posts in a thread or two out of millions of anonymous and erroneous web dialogues seriously, truthfully, and as a valid method of reviewing, testing, and making decisions about software to be a complete (fill in your own slur).
But you’ll probably take this post too seriously… Like you take your own…
Seriously, and Personally.
> You probably don’t think, and we’ll say you aren’t, an idiot, or anti-Mac, or overreactive, right? But do you think some people out there might be? What stops them from posting?
What are you saying? That I should not post something just because the “haters” of the platform will find ground to troll? Sorry, but this is not a good reason to keep important news from the public. If I do that for Apple, I should do the same for Linux and MS and keeping away selectively important news items is not rightful. News are news and need to be served. Negative or positive.
I would suggest you give your little rant/suggestion to the Mac sites! At least these should not run the news, because by definition are Apple-friendly, right? Well, bad luck, they also run the news. MacMinute does, MacSurfer does and more do as well. Why OSNews wouldn’t?
I am _really_ tired having to explain everything I write over here, every day. OSNews was always free of favoritism towards everyone. And it will continue to be this way.
I could care less what you do.
But, yes, I question the value of your pointless post in a discussion group for a product you don’t own.
“but this is not a good reason to keep important news from the public.” Again, I’ll repeat–I don’t care what you post on your site… it’s posting irrelevent blather that is trlling on a techsupport disc group that I have a problem with. “important news from the public?” You are losing your grip on reality. You feel much, too much self-importance.
Apple posted the request for more information on the 13th, 6 days after release because most people weren’t helping to solve the problem. The KB article warning about iBook 500s was posted on the 16th. It was amended on the 18th to note that other models with ATi graphics could be affected. Most posters with problems were posted between the 16th and 18th. They still number at about ten or so distinct posters.
I could point you to similar problems related to most any piece of software that has discussion groups. Did you post the storie about Adobe Acrobat on MacNN? No. I’m not accusing you of bias. Nor am I apologizing for Apple. I am saying this is a non-issue.
but you can’t tolerate someone disagreeing with you.
That’s what some people call bias.
Some people would say moderating a site without bias means sitting back and letting people disgree.
As soon as someone disagrees with you, you jump in hissing and snarling.
All I have said is that this is much less an issue than you are making it out to be. I said you aren’t any of the bad things people say of you, that I’m not defending Apple, that you can have your opinion.
So why do you feel you need to explain yourself. All I asked is if you bought the damn software in question, not what keeps you awake at night.
>So why do you feel you need to explain yourself.
Simply because I have been accused of a zillion things, every day for a different one. I want to have a “relationship” wiht my readership. I am the person next door. I don’t snob and shutting it up without replying questions or misconceptions. That’s how I am.
>All I asked is if you bought the damn software
IMO, you were implying that “if you didn’t buy the software, you don’t have the right to talk”. This is why I replied the way I did.
so let’s assume: “No.”
So let’s move on to question 2:
“Do you think it’s responsible or appropriate to post comments on a tech support discussion group when you do not own the software in question?”
Just curious–I don’t want to have any misperceptions. You say you wnat to answer questions, but you haven’t yet.
My suggestion is that don’t respond to any accusation, unless it is something reasonable, like a misunderstanding or something. Accusing someone of being anti-Apple or whatever is a stupid claim. This is a public forum, nobody registers, nobody knows who post. There are guys out there who make a post for the sake of it, just to see what responses they get, which is ok, but this also means that you have to be careful to which post you reply. Just my 2 cents, since there will be always someone who will say something stupid.
Outlook brought my freaking PC at work down twice yesterday. My mac has never crashed.
Check out omnigraffle.
Since OSX is my platform of choice and I have made a significant investment in it, I like to be aware of any issues.
Reading through the threads it appears that the bug (I’m only talking about the most important issue – machine locking) may be associated with the video driver/video card and is being triggered by keynote. This is not to say that there isn’t a bad call/routine being made by keynote. If you look at the reports, none of the systems are coreing/bsoding they are freezing and there is a pretty tight system type grouping.
Any platform that integrates video into the kernel is susceptible to these issues.
I haven’t had a system crash on any of my OSX boxes (now up to four of em), so I can say from experience the system is incredibly stable.
However, the system is still not perfect. For example, NEVER break your network connection while having IDisk mounted, finder gets pretty po’d and rallies all your carbon apps against you. However this is recoverable by simply restarting finder and unmounting IDisk asap. This, btw, is the only stability issue I have encountered.
it’s more a problem with Mac OS X 10.2.3 together with an ATi-videocard..
but Apple seems to be working on it:
Eugenia, I agree with Sergio, just don’t reply to people who accuse you of wild outragous things that aren’t true. Why people flame on people who think differently or hold a different opinion is beyond me. *Shurgs* Do we all have to think and act the same? No. 🙂 Just my two cents…
>>Outlook brought my freaking PC at work down
>>twice yesterday. My mac has never crashed.
It’s sad. I work as a graphic designer on a win2k box, and I have to reboot the damn box THREE TIMES A DAY. And it’s all because of my wacom tablet driver. Every few hours the driver simply, well, stops. And so I reboot, because I can’t figure out how under windows to stop and restart a driver.
(Under linux I’d just unload and reload the kernel module, or kill -HUP the daemon (if there is one). But that’s irrelevant.)
My point is that driver level stuff will b0rk a system but good, no matter how solid the OS architecture. Until I installed my tablet, win2k was solid.
People shouldn’t be screaming at apple that keynote is bad, rather, since it seems to be an ati driver issue, they should be screaming at apple to fix the damn driver. Given that apple is in such tight control of the hardware, they ought to be able to write tight drivers. In my experience, this has always been the case, but now and then some program (like keynote) will twiddle the wrong doodad and the driver dies.
Regardless of the cause, this seems to me to be a non-issue. I have plenty of paid-for graphics software for my work pc which crashes or needs restarting routinely. How many times a day do I have to restart photoshop because the clipboard fails? 4 or 5 times. How often does the exchange server in my office crack up causing outlook to hang? At least twice a week.
It’s pathetic that we’re used to this, but it’s just a fact of life. As long as consumers demand features over function, this is exactly what we’ll continue to experience.
To the guy that is whining about importing PPT…at least it makes an effort. Try importing Keynote files into PowerPoint!
I have yet to see it crash my OSX PowerBook. And as most Mac users would say, i’d rather pay the $100 for version 1.0 Apple software than $350 for version X MS software.
It isn’t always about quality – sometimes it is just doing the right thing…
I’m really sorry for my comment. I thought the anti-mac stuff was a terrible stupid topic from the past that was completele overcome.
I completely agree Sergio’s suggestion at this point.
Anyways, I rather interested in Autocad in OS than glitches on keynote so I’m going to shut up “my stupid mouth”.
I think Anon. (the first, who’s ranting against Eugenia) is being fairly obnoxious, but I do agree this issue is way overblown.
It sounds like a nasty bug (the KPs caused by some glitch with Keynote and G3s w/ ATI video cards), but it’s just that — a bug, and a fairly specific one at that. Apple posted a tech note and is looking into it. What more can you ask?
BTW, using a 1.0 version of any piece of software to deliver an important presentation seems to me… shall we say… a bit foolhardy.
Every piece of software, particularly version 1.0 software, will have problems with some users and the problems can even be catastrophic.
Here’s what’s going on. Apple has been getting great press for all of its new products. A headline that says “something’s wrong in wonderland” is a good headline. You get readers.
A headline that just merely repeats yesterday’s news “new keynote app out” or is just all rosy — “everything’s wonderful in wonderland” — doesn’t sell newspapers and doesn’t get page hits.
That’s all this is. Journalists are very often shockingly illformed and don’t have time to find out the true facts and right good balanced stories. They are under pressure to crank out stuff. 90 percent of which is a subtle distortion of the truth to sell papers.
//And it’s all because of my wacom tablet driver. Every few hours the driver simply, well, stops. And so I reboot, because I can’t figure out how under windows to stop and restart a driver//
Is it a digitally signed driver, certified for W2K?
If not, then you can’t blame the OS.
This type of thing is happening almost universally with so many software makers. The rush to get the product out, etc. So often 1.0 is really still beta. I wish there was much more of an emphasis on quality control. Regarding Apple, when they had Claris, to me, that was the ultimate of quality control for software. They simply would not release anything until it was right.
Yes. Apple has released (I don’t know, I haven’t tried it, but that’s what everybody says) an unfinished app: Keynote. Now, we forget we are dealing with Apple. They happen to look at the user feedback for developing new versions. I guess that if you say «I want everything blinking» they will pretty much ignore you, but if many people request a very reasonable thing like «We want to open .pot files» you will have it in the next version… if it is feasible. Just you have to actually give the feedback, by filing a bug/feature request or talking in the lists. Apple doesn’t mantain a list for every product -even the free ones- just because. It’s a way of getting feedback. ProjectBuilder 2 is an example of that. It’s built after the feedback from the developers. They totally overhauled the interface to suit better the needs of the users. So, if you try Keynote and don’t like it, tell them how to improve it. They sure will.
“confirmed that a bug in the driver software for some graphics cards is causing problems for those running the company’s new Keynote presentation software.”