‘Flower Power’ was the mantra of a generation in the 1960s. That metaphor takes on a whole new meaning as DesktopLinux.com interviews Lycoris executives, CTO Joseph Cheek and marketing guru Jason Spisak about Lycoris’ Linux desktop. The in-depth talk focuses on the company’s strategy, open source philosophy, the challenge to Microsoft’s Windows XP, and how Lycoris is shaping the future of Desktop Linux for the consumer today.
Peace, Love… and Lycoris: Interview with Spisak & Cheek
About The Author
Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
Follow me on Twitter @EugeniaLoli
Not sure if i would necessarily classify Lycoris as “shaping the future of desktop linux”. I’ve tried it and found most of the things they’ve done (ie: the control panel) are not “new and creative” but taken from windows xp. Why does everyone feel a need to model their os after windows xp? XP is *NOT* that nice of an operating system. Their new control center (lycoris) is a bunch of icons with hyperlinks to the kde control center..
Sorry if i’m offending any users.. but i found it a weak operating system, with bad fonts.. and it’s very outdated. (kde 2.2)
<this is just my opinion, don’t waste your time flaming me>
Are you done now?
WHY everytime we have a Lycoris story everyone has to bitch about its resemblance to XP??
Get over it and stop talking about the same things over and over again!
That was a decision of Lycoris people, and they don’t want to change it, it makes money for them, money which are enough to feed the 5 employees they got there.
If you want to bitch about XP<->Lycoris again, reffer to older stories, not here. I am fed up with that kind of trolling.
Is that ALL you have to discuss about Lycoris??
Lycoris is still my favorite. And, although it does resemble XP in certain ways, it also has a look of its own – this is an intangible thing, but it has a lightness, brightness and breeziness that no other Linux desktop has. Very inviting and friendly.
They have obviously been spending their time filling things out with their Productivity Pak and Game Pak, etc. I guess what everyone wants to know is when they will move to KDE 3 (and it’s assumed they will do that with their “Beryl” release). In a way though, I like how Lycoris doesn’t seem to be in a big rush. They seem to work on their UI with great care and want to get things just the way they want them.
The marketing guy said it best …
Linux, Desktop/LX in particular, is good at a subset of the vast amount of things people *can* do with a PC.
Yeah, that’s fine, I guess … a subset. It’s always a thing of “if all you want to do is ….. then Linux is ready for you”.
If all you want to do is chat, listen to mp3s, browse the web, whatever ….
But attempt to step out of the Linux ‘sandbox’, and you may quickly realize that it isn’t as ‘ready’ as you thought it was.
The Linux ‘sandbox’ is growing in size on an hourly basis, Darius.
I can: Chat, listen to music, browse the web, play games, develop applications and web pages, learn more about my hardware and system, as well as toy around with an ever increasing software library.
Desktop Linux is as ‘ready’ as anyone makes it. It’s ready for me.
The Linux ‘sandbox’ is growing in size on an hourly basis, Darius.
Yes, but then again, so is the playground … it’s always going to be a game of catch-up.
I can: Chat
Sure, with merely a ‘subset’ of the features that the Win32 IM clients have.
listen to music
Not that impressed
browse the web[i]
With limitations – even browsing the web with Mozilla on Windows can be quite painful, especially the sites heavy on video/multimedia/plugins.
[i]play games
Go to any Comp USA or Electronic Botique and get a list of the top 10-15 selling games presently. How many of these will run on your Linux box, and with a respectable amount of performance? One can only stand Tuxracer & UT2003 for so long
develop applications and web pages
Again, not impressed. Hell, I could write apps on my C64. And what do you need to write web pages, a text editor? (Certainly not Ultraedit, but that’s beside the point.)
Desktop Linux is as ‘ready’ as anyone makes it.
Ok, so what the hell does that mean? Anybody running apps outside of the ‘sandbox’ can just learn to do without? What kind of justification is that??
If the playground includes fun stuff like Nimda, SQL Slammer, and “I Love You” I’ll opt for the subset, especially one that gives control of my computer back to me.
>>The Linux ‘sandbox’ is growing in size on an hourly basis, Darius.
>Yes, but then again, so is the playground … it’s always going to be a game of catch-up.
HAHAHA Catch up to what, needing 10 applications to start at boot to protect your computer long enough to check your email?
>>I can: Chat
>Sure, with merely a ‘subset’ of the features that the Win32 IM clients have.
Really? I have AOL’s AIM, Yahoo’s Yahoo Messenger WTF are you talking about? Have you actually used Linux, oop Bill’s itchy again, you better go get some!
>>listen to music
>Not that impressed
Of course not, he proved you wrong. (Not a very difficult task mind you.)
>>browse the web
>With limitations – even browsing the web with Mozilla on Windows can be quite painful, especially the sites heavy on video/multimedia/plugins.
Name some.
I have Shockwave, Flash 6, Acrobat, JAVA, QuickTime, WMP, efax, shutterfly, etc. Where’s the problem? I can’t recall any sites that aren’t available to me.
>play games
>Go to any Comp USA or Electronic Botique and get a list of the top 10-15 selling games presently. How many of these will run on your Linux box, and with a respectable amount of performance? One can only stand Tuxracer & UT2003 for so long
Who cares, FYI I don’t seem to have any trouble with Starcraft, Warcraft, SimCity 3000, or any of the popcap games. So there’s not a big selection. If you want games, use Windows it’s a GREAT TOY OS.
develop applications and web pages
>Again, not impressed. Hell, I could write apps on my C64. And what do you need to write web pages, a text editor? (Certainly not Ultraedit, but that’s beside the point.)
I guess you missed my little desktop snapshot the other day. I think Mozilla composer is all the HTML editor anyone should need anyway unless they build sites for a living, then they should be using a text editor.
>>Desktop Linux is as ‘ready’ as anyone makes it.
>Ok, so what the hell does that mean? Anybody running apps outside of the ‘sandbox’ can just learn to do without? What kind of justification is that??
It means it’s ready for anyone that’s not afraid of change. It’s ready for anyone with more than a peanut between their ears. There are PLENTY of applications available now for a wide variety of uses. Sure if you need Photoshop or Cakewalk you are out of luck, so what, that doesn’t mean it’s not ready for others. Quit trolling.
You know, some us know there is more to life than games. 99% of all games the PC has aren’t worth the plastic they are burned on. I mean, how many Unreal or Quake III clones does one need?
Any computer is as useful as as you need it for. Want to play all those Windows games? Use Windows. There is no justification there. I use Linux and I play very few games so it suits me fine.
HAHAHA Catch up to what, needing 10 applications to start at boot to protect your computer long enough to check your email?
Try only 1 .. so, unless you don’t run a firewall on your Linux box, I’d say that makes us about even.
Really? I have AOL’s AIM, Yahoo’s Yahoo Messenger WTF are you talking about? Have you actually used Linux, oop Bill’s itchy again, you better go get some!
So, tell me how well voice/video chat works on your version of Yahoo Menssenger? What about IMViroments?
Of course not, he proved you wrong. (Not a very difficult task mind you.)
Not hardly – I never said it wasn’t possible to listen to music on Linux.
Name some.
I have Shockwave, Flash 6, Acrobat, JAVA, QuickTime, WMP, efax, shutterfly, etc. Where’s the problem? I can’t recall any sites that aren’t available to me.
Log on to broadband.msnbc.com on your Linux box and tell me what you get. (Hint: If you don’t see video, it isn’t working right.)
>play games
>Go to any Comp USA or Electronic Botique and get a list of the top 10-15 selling games presently. How many of these will run on your Linux box, and with a respectable amount of performance? One can only stand Tuxracer & UT2003 for so long
Who cares
Well, I certainly don’t, but even quite a few diehard Linux pundets keep a Windows partition around for this very reason.
FYI I don’t seem to have any trouble with Starcraft, Warcraft, SimCity 3000, or any of the popcap games.
All games that have run in Windows since the beginning. (Which makes me wonder if Linux can play SimCity 4?)
I think Mozilla composer is all the HTML editor anyone should need anyway
LMAO!!!
unless they build sites for a living, then they should be using a text editor.
See, that’s the only way that you can justify Linux being ‘ready’, by trying to dictate to people what they should and should not use in order to try and squeeze them into the sandbox.
It means it’s ready for anyone that’s not afraid of change.
Or anyone who’s willing to give up functiionality for ‘political’ reasons, yes?
It’s ready for anyone with more than a peanut between their ears.
Come on, man .. what kind of argument is that? Certainly you can come up with something better? And you’re telling me to quit trolling?
There are PLENTY of applications available now for a wide variety of uses.
Yes, plenty, but ….
Sure if you need Photoshop or Cakewalk you are out of luck, so what, that doesn’t mean it’s not ready for others
Ok, so Linux is ready .. unless, of course they need Photoshop … or Cakewalk …. or they want to play the latest games …. or …. what else are we leaving out here?
but soon it goes down to “is linux ready for the desktop”. For some it is, for some not as pointed to above. However, let us not fool ourselves, there are still vast numbers of AVERAGE users who need proggies in which linux is still very weak… so we are NOT talking about the “poweruser” who needs every last feature of photoshop. Example: linux still does not have anything HALF as good as Nero for disc burning – sorry. Not that Nero is all that, but man, it is head and shoulders above anything out of the linux land. I suppose in time there’ll be something competitive in linux, but so far…
Disc burning is a very basic thing done by the majority of average users not just “powerusers”, and linux SUX here majorly. You can keep bugging Ahead to port Nero to linux or you can try to get some native dev going, but whatever the case, man this is needed.
this was supposed to be about Lycoris… but soon it goes down to “is linux ready for the desktop”.
Actually, when it comes to Lycoris, I believe the desktop discussion is very relavent, since it is pretty much the reason for Lycoris’s existance .. trying to bring Linux to the masses.
there are still vast numbers of AVERAGE users who need proggies in which linux is still very weak…
This is my point also. I’ve tried some apps in Linx and I’m like “Yikes … is this what they call an alternative?” I mean, some of the shit they are shoveling as ‘viable’ is just scary to even think about.
Sure, there are some very good apps (Galeon, Gimp, Evolution, etc), but just not enough of them .. not yet.
Lycoris is the best, I love them…
IF it was not for Dresktop/lx and the Productivity Pak I would still be using Micorosft Windows.
I haced used Mandrake and I did not like it,it is not ready yet for the every-day desktop user…
Thank god for Lycoris, they will save us.
And that brings us back to Joseph’s remark that Lycoris is a good subset. I find that to be a very honest staement, both in what Lycoris has achieved and what yet has to be achieved. People are lining up and drawing lines in the sand. There’s no need for that. Lycoris offers a very nice user experience for people who want to try something different, yet has a familiarity to it. That is precisely what they’re trying to do. If we compare it to Windows XP or Mac OS X, it’s going to fall short because of what it doesn’t support yet. But, it is also fruitful to see where it began and where it is now. Of all the Linux distros, I think Lycoris is more a labor of love more than any of them are. We should congratulate them and encourage them – they have come to where they are with five people. And, it’s only $29.95. If you’re in that subset, that’s hard to beat.
>>HAHAHA Catch up to what, needing 10 applications to start at boot to protect your computer long enough to check your email?
>Try only 1 .. so, unless you don’t run a firewall on your Linux box, I’d say that makes us about even.
You don’t run anti virus? Shame on you! LOL
>>Really? I have AOL’s AIM, Yahoo’s Yahoo Messenger WTF are you talking about? Have you actually used Linux, oop Bill’s itchy again, you better go get some!
>So, tell me how well voice/video chat works on your version of Yahoo Menssenger? What about IMViroments?
Who uses them? IMVironments are a waste of computer cycles. If I want to talk to someone, I’ll call them.
>>Of course not, he proved you wrong. (Not a very difficult task mind you.)
>Not hardly – I never said it wasn’t possible to listen to music on Linux.
Ok..
>>Name some.
>>I have Shockwave, Flash 6, Acrobat, JAVA, QuickTime, WMP, efax, shutterfly, etc. Where’s the problem? I can’t recall any sites that aren’t available to me.
>Log on to broadband.msnbc.com on your Linux box and tell me what you get. (Hint: If you don’t see video, it isn’t working right.)
Yeah, uhh point me at a Microsoft site, then tell me it’s Linux’s fault? HAHAHAHA! Are you talking about the bad blurbs FLASH? LOL
>>>play games
>>>Go to any Comp USA or Electronic Botique and get a list of the top 10-15 selling games presently. How many of these will run on your Linux box, and with a respectable amount of performance? One can only stand Tuxracer & UT2003 for so long
>>Who cares
>Well, I certainly don’t, but even quite a few diehard Linux pundets keep a Windows partition around for this very reason.
More power to them.
>>FYI I don’t seem to have any trouble with Starcraft, Warcraft, SimCity 3000, or any of the popcap games.
>All games that have run in Windows since the beginning. (Which makes me wonder if Linux can play SimCity 4?)
So, Linux isn’t a gaming platform. I don’t recall claiming that it was. No, I don’t believe SC4 is available.
>>I think Mozilla composer is all the HTML editor anyone should need anyway
>LMAO!!!
>>unless they build sites for a living, then they should be using a text editor.
>See, that’s the only way that you can justify Linux being ‘ready’, by trying to dictate to people what they should and should not use in order to try and squeeze them into the sandbox.
What are you talking about, there are 30 Windows developers on my floor, all of them developing production ASP code using TEXTPAD. I’m not dictating anything, I am simply providing my opinion.
>>It means it’s ready for anyone that’s not afraid of change.
>Or anyone who’s willing to give up functiionality for ‘political’ reasons, yes?
Give up what? I’m still waiting for some facts here.
>>It’s ready for anyone with more than a peanut between their ears.
>Come on, man .. what kind of argument is that? Certainly you can come up with something better? And you’re telling me to quit trolling?
Again, you have nothing.
>>There are PLENTY of applications available now for a wide variety of uses.
>Yes, plenty, but ….
>>Sure if you need Photoshop or Cakewalk you are out of luck, so what, that doesn’t mean it’s not ready for others
>Ok, so Linux is ready .. unless, of course they need Photoshop … or Cakewalk …. or they want to play the latest games …. or …. what else are we leaving out here?
Not much.
Thank god for Lycoris, they will save us.
And I thought Jesus was supposed to do that
Anyway, all of you have some major problems in comparing Linux to Windows. Actually, you should be comparing it to Mac OS X, as one of them will usurp the other very soon.
The playing field becomes much more level in many respects than.
Now please don’t flame me!
“Ok, so Linux is ready .. unless, of course they need Photoshop … or Cakewalk …. or they want to play the latest games …. or …. what else are we leaving out here? ”
Okay, this arguement is getting old. How many percentage of Windows users accually use Photoshop? What about Cakewalk(this one I really want to know considering I’ve never heard of it)? And I can tell you, there is definately a low amount of people that play PC games. Most games people play are freecell, solitare, etc.
You don’t run anti virus? Shame on you! LOL
I have anti-virus on my machine, but I don’t run it 24/7. With a little preventative maintenance and some common sense, it really isn’t necessary to do so – the big ‘security threat’ isn’t half as bad as you think it is.
>So, tell me how well voice/video chat works on your version of Yahoo Menssenger? What about IMViroments?
Who uses them? IMVironments are a waste of computer cycles.
See, this is where your problem lies – your preception of ‘the average user’ is severely scewed. Yes, I will agree with you that they’re annoying. Hell, they’re even worse than the neon colors. But, do you know what? I know quite a lot of people (almost all the non-tech savy people on my contact list actually) who use the hell out of them. In fact, they’ve all made comments about it when they figure out that I have them turned off
If I want to talk to someone, I’ll call them.
Again, I agree with you .. but it’s still a missing feature that’s pretty important for quite a number of people. Again, this isn’t about your own ‘killer apps’ .. you have to look at the bigger picture.
What are you talking about, there are 30 Windows developers on my floor, all of them developing production ASP code using TEXTPAD. I’m not dictating anything, I am simply providing my opinion.
Unless I’m missing something, ASP is not the same thing as writing the front-end for a website. ASP isn’t exactly the kind of thing you’d use Dreamweaver for to begin with, much less Netscape Composer.
>>It means it’s ready for anyone that’s not afraid of change.
>Or anyone who’s willing to give up functiionality for ‘political’ reasons, yes?
Give up what? I’m still waiting for some facts here.
Ok, let’s take your example of Cakewalk, for instance. I myself do not use Sonar (the newest incarnation of Cakewalk) very often (I’m more partial to Reason), so it’s not a ‘make or break’ app for me (meaning I could live without it if I switched platforms.) But what if it was? Then what? What kind of benefits would I possibly gain by making the switch? Well, I wouldn’t have access to the one critical app I use a computer for, but hey … at least the OS is more secure and it’s not made by M$, right?
>>Name some.
>>I have Shockwave, Flash 6, Acrobat, JAVA, QuickTime, WMP, efax, shutterfly, etc. Where’s the problem? I can’t recall any sites that aren’t available to me.
>Log on to broadband.msnbc.com on your Linux box and tell me what you get. (Hint: If you don’t see video, it isn’t working right.)
Yeah, uhh point me at a Microsoft site, then tell me it’s Linux’s fault?
I’m not saying it’s Linux’s fault, Aitvo. I just gave you an example. I actually use Phoenix as my primary browser, but have to keep IE around for this and a few other sites (the members area of gamespot.com is another).
This goes out to Link46and2:
Okay, this arguement is getting old. How many percentage of Windows users accually use Photoshop? What about Cakewalk?
Well, let’s look at it another way .. what percentage of Windows users do voice/video chat & IMViroments in Yahoo Messenger? What percentage of them use software to print calenders with Di$ney characters on them? How many people have devices (such as portable MP3 players) that aren’t yet supported (well) under Windows? In fact, let’s make it a bit broarder and say …
What percentage of Windows users are currently doing things with their computers (desktop/workstation-related) that aren’t supported (well) in Linux?
Now, on the flipside:
What percentage of Linux users are currently doing things with their computers (desktop/workstation-related) that aren’t supported (well) in Windows?
And I can tell you, there is definately a low amount of people that play PC games. Most games people play are freecell, solitare, etc.
Ok, well … perhaps maybe where you come from …
>>> “Ok, so Linux is ready .. unless, of course they need >>>Photoshop … or Cakewalk …. or they want to play the >>>latest games …. or …. what else are we leaving out >>>here? ”
>>Okay, this arguement is getting old.
AGREED!!!!
cakewalk and photoshop…please.
that last guy probably doesn’t even OWN any licenses to cakewalk or photoshop.
and of all the people that he knows or has met…the few that do run photoshop or cakewalk…they probably didn’t pay for it EITHER!!!
Eugenia I really would think that of all people you would know a lack of quality of a product when you see something like Lycoris, I mean seriously, the first guy isn’t a troll he’s just making his valid opinion of Lycoris. I have used it as well, and your statement about them making money off of it, well that doesn’t exactly warm my heart. It makes me wonder how companies can make money of these horrid products and call it competition. It’s more like deception.
I know that you would like to see trolls go away, you’ve been successful in other areas but maybe the trolls here are just making valid arguments about a horrible product that continues to make sales.
I have dabbled a little with an earlier edition of Lycoris via Virtual PC on my Mac. In fact it still read Redmond Linux and was before the revamp in style. The installer very RedHat ncurses style.
Lycoris vs. XP in moot in style. Yeah, it resembles the look in many aspects. But, consider this — if you are trying to win over the common mass, what better way but to supply a look that they are accustomed to? In a side by side comparison between that and let’s say Lindows, which looks friendlier?
Lycoris packs provide the way to expand similar that of installing various MS Office or dll runtimes. It tries to put what the common person is looking for in play. Granted, other distributions have offered WineX (ie Mandrake) but it was in an operating system purchase, not to be added later.
Lycoris is a style. It is a twist on the current Linux world. Face-paint for an actor, allow him to take on a new role.
I look forward to see what comes to play on it. Lycoris has not had the press that Lindows has, but it to be interesting to see which one captures more flags.
The only truly negative aspect is regards to its take on OpenSource. I love what they have done with the Productivity Pack. It cleans up what I feel is wrong currently with OpenOffice. It makes it appear inviting, not overcrowded. However, these changes should have been returned to the Open to enhance OpenOffice on the whole and not only benefit Lycoris but another project’s acceptance as well.
troll, flame….I don’t care. It works for “me”. I’m not a programmer, I don’t even know or care what cakewalk is…though Lycoris has been a cakewalk for me….
i haven’t used lindows or xandros…..and I really don’t know what they bring to the table that would make me want to pay their prices…but for what I do, it just works. Flash and java being installed and working right out of the box put it head over heels above many other distros.
i’ve used suse, red hat, mandrake, libranet, elx, debian, slackware, vector, and jamd. the only distro that does what I want it to do instantly is Lycoris. all the others require hours of tweaking.
Sure, it can’t do some things…but it does do alot of things…alot of things i want it to do…and there’s alot of people just like me out there….just a joe schmoe that likes computers and tinkering with them a bit, but really only needing the basics. I surf, and occasionally email some work home…excel and word foiles..that I edit and send back to work wioth no problems. I use Lycoris and the productivity pack…and I couldn’t be happier.
Just becasue something may not fit your nees, doesn’t mean it’s crap.
Why do you think Lycoris is a horrible product?
Users of Lycoris,Lindows,Gentoo etc etc get thrown out of the linux sandbox as soon as they go out and buy new hardware and discover that the kernel doesnt support it and the manufacturer doesnt supply Linux drivers.
And dont give me this crap about “oh but Linux supports so much hardware these days”. Ive personally come across many devices that are not supported at all on Linux. And im not talking about exotic hardware either (my 2 year old Canon scanner,my kodak camera,my usb CD burner,my friends video card TV out sockets,my friends usb storage device)
So everyone knows, Cakewalk is a sound editing program. I use ProTools, myself, which requires Windows or a Mac. It’s the only reason I’ve still got Windows, myself, but I use it too much to dual boot, so I just have seperate boxes for Linux and ProTools (Windows). Linux is nowhere on the pro audio radar. Sure, there are programs and such for audio editing, but Cakewalk and ProTools floor all of them. Personally, I’d like to see a Linux distro for ProTools. The *only* thing I do with this Windows box is pro audio, and I’m sure Linux could be custom fitted as a MUUUUCH better platform for such a job. If DigiDesign would just allow me to run a more dedicated OS for this audio stuff, I’d be in business.
The Lycoris web site has a section that lists known supported and unsupported hardware. I would assume one would check and see before blindly going out and buying new hardware.
For all those who wonder what Cakewalk is, it is a multi-track audio/MIDI production suite. And it’s a harsh truth that the only choices that I have for platforms to run such a program is…you guessed it. Windows or Mac.
For all those who wonder if there is someone who uses this site who works with Photoshop on a daily basis, well, here I am. Once again…Windows or Mac.
Oh, yes, I paid for them both, by the way. That’s kind of important if you are using your software for business purposes.
To address a criticism sure to be leveled at me in the next four posts, let me say this: if you are doing prepress photo work, GIMP is not even an option. Good for retouching your mom’s prom picture, yes. Something you can bring to a print house…no chance.
I am waiting, waiting, waiting to switch to open source. The economic advantages are there. But until these two apps show up, there is no point in me even trying. Linux may be ready for your desktop. It’s not yet ready for mine.
Lycoris Desktop/lx is a amazing piece of software, I use it every day at home, it does all that I need.
I also have the ProductivityPak, and I find it to be much better then just plan old OpenOffice. However I would like to point out that the improvements Lycoris made to it are to make it work better on Desktop/lx, adding icons and Lycoris look & feel, a Font installer, PDA applications, clip art & templates.. All of those things are not applicable to be added back to OpenOffice.org. However if you buy the Productivity Pak you get the SRPM’s with it on the same CD. So there is nothing shopping the guys at OpenOffice having a look at what Lycoris added to it.
As far as Desktop/lx looking like WindowsXP, I don’t even think this is true. If anything it looks more like Windows 98 to me. But why does that bother you? I don’t get your point. 😕
I am one of the beta testers for the GamePak, and let me tell you this: What Lycoris is doing to the 5 Linux games is NOT something that anyone that knows how to make RPM’s could do. They are doing a lot to make it work much better with Desktop/lx and other things also that add real value to the end user. Same goes for the ProductivityPak, there is real value in it for the every day user who is not a programmer. 🙂
My last comment is, if you have not try’ed build66 the current beta of Desktop/lx then go try it, otherwise don’t comment on the OS as you don’t know how good it is going to be by the time Update 3 is out. We don’t need KDE3 to be in the OS by default, what Lycoris has done to improve KDE2.2.2b is amazing. Finally if you really want KDE3 or KDE3.1 for Lycoris desktop/lx you can have it, it is available as RPM’s from the community.
🙂
I don’t personally think Linux is quite ready. Here is my breakdown:
Linux is in many ways more powerful than Windows. I have a headless machine set up that I simply VNC into; and I can create as many desktop sessions I want. I don’t think I can do this with Windows.
HOWEVER, it bites for being my day-to-day shell. I had a painful experience with installing rpm’s a while back (I carefully rtfm’ed), and while maybe things are better now, I have no intention of wasting my time unless I’m sure of ease. It’s sad because I’d like to use CMU Common Lisp which is Linux-only, but learning boring Linux minutae is not worthwhile.
I’d like to see the distros spread farther away from each other. “Linux” means nothing to me. So they all use the same kernel. BFD; I rarely operate on such a close level with my kernel.
Could somebody explain in details what is the difference between Lycoris ProductivityPak and OpenOffice.org? I’ve never tried it. Is there any substantial improvements in terms of usability, speed etc., or just flashy icons?
Could somebody explain in details what is the difference between Lycoris Productivity Pak and OpenOffice.org? Just never tried it. Is there any substantial improvement in terms of usability, speed etc., or just some flashy icons?
It’s sad because I’d like to use CMU Common Lisp which is Linux-only, but learning boring Linux minutae is not worthwhile.
CMU Common Lisp works on BSD also.
I think your statement is interesting. You want to use Common Lisp, but are not interested in Linux minutia. I think if you delved into BSD or Linux minutia a bit, you might find them as enjoyable to use as Common Lisp.
The ProductivityPak is basically a significantly reorganized and improved OpenOffice.org, bundled with templates, clip-art and extra fonts. It also includes KPilot to sync Palm pilots.
http://www.lycoris.com/products/ppak/
Oops, forgot to add the other bit 😮
They’ve played around with the menu structure and toolbar to make things easier to find for newbies, as well as removing the complex network installation for multi-users. Instead, when you run an OpenOffice.org app for the first time, it autoruns the workstation installation program.
I installed Lycoris (I forget which semi-precious jewel version it was) and I thought it would be a nice OS for the average joe.
Also, I used to work with Joe Cheek and he is a very decent guy. I would speak well of his distro on that merit alone; fortunately, I don’t have to. The OS is a nice peice of work for users new to Linux.
>The ProductivityPak is basically a significantly reorganized >and improved OpenOffice.org, bundled with templates, clip-art >and extra fonts. It also includes KPilot to sync Palm pilots.
>http://www.lycoris.com/products/ppak/
Hm… Looks a little bit like a toy
As far as I’ve understood there was no significant changes, apart from cosmetical ones.
And the window title still reads “OpenOffice.org”, which is probably good.
MOST people DON’T have Photoshop. It isn’t priced that way. I have Photoshop Elements, personally, even for my basic use, I would never ever move to GIMP in the nearest future. Why? Photoshop is far easier to use, contains more features that actually benefits those editing photos, etc.
I wouldn’t actually place GIMP as it is today as an altenative to Photoshop or its consumer altenatives (namely Photoshop Elements, Paint Shop Pro, etc.). Th UI is horrible, and completely inconsistent with KDE (Lycoris’ desktop).
“I would never ever move to GIMP in the nearest future. Why? Photoshop is far easier to use, contains more features that actually benefits those editing photos, etc. ”
LOL Whatever. The only real differences between photoshop are filters and CMYK. Unless you are doing prepress work, you don’t need CMYK.
“I guess you missed my little desktop snapshot the other day. I think Mozilla composer is all the HTML editor anyone should need anyway unless they build sites for a living, then they should be using a text editor.”
Hey, I’m a professional web designer and I’m craving for an application like Dreamweaver to come to Linux. Sure, there’s Bluefish, Quanta, Screem, … but I (and lots of other professional web designers) need a wysiwyg html editor.
> Hm… Looks a little bit like a toy
As far as I’ve
> understood there was no significant changes, apart from
> cosmetical ones.
The Lycoris spin on what they have and haven’t done is available here, in section 1:
http://www.lycoris.org/sections.php?op=viewarticle&artid=74
I’ve taken the most relevent part here (be warned: it’s layed on a little thick):
The entire Lycoris Office suite has been given that special Lycoris look and feel, and has been simplified to help you hit the ground running. Major “hot key” combinations are the same in every application, which makes working with the ProductivityPak simple and intuitive; Ctrl-Shift-S, for example, brings up the Save As dialog.
Simplified toolbars provide a cohesive structure for users to access their favorite functions, icons are arranged according to task in a manner that is similar to the Desktop/LX Flower menu. Functions not commonly used have been relegated to the menu system, ensuring maximum exposure for more useful tools. Colorful buttons and helpful Wizards make using Lycoris Office simple and straightforward, while excellent file compatibility ensures that existing data is handled seamlessly.
In a sense, you’re right – it is just OpenOffice.org. However, Lycoris contend that it is a “souped-up” OpenOffice.org, and that its UI has been redesigned to make it more newbie-friendly.
It’s probably worth pointing out that Sun also sells a “souped up” version of OpenOffice.org. Sure, history tells it differently, but currently that’s exactly what StarOffice 6.0 is – OpenOffice.org with some extra templates, clipart and fonts (sounding familiar?). Of course, StarOffice also includes Adabas D, which gives it a significant lead over OpenOffice.org, but the point remains that both Lycoris and Sun are selling OpenOffice.org-based products.
Both companies have obviously made a business decision to market essentially free software as a commercial product (althoguh Sun has done a better job rebranding), which probably means there’s a market for it. And where there’s a demand, economics tells us that suppliers will rush to fulfil it.
I think your statement is interesting. You want to use Common Lisp, but are not interested in Linux minutia. I think if you delved into BSD or Linux minutia a bit, you might find them as enjoyable to use as Common Lisp.
I have the Unix Programming Environment and C books by Kernighan/Pike/Ritchie. It’s interesting. But all these messy packages and all that other junk… I’ll probably start doing Unix stuff once I get scsh (the Scheme shell) installed. As long as I can build nice programs out of Unix, I won’t mind the complexity at all.
Aitvo: LOL Whatever. The only real differences between photoshop are filters and CMYK. Unless you are doing prepress work, you don’t need CMYK.
Now, lets see. The feature I use most is “styles” where you can add stuff like bevel and embross, shadows, etc. Can I do it on GIMP? The last I check I have to manually do it via seperate layers (for example, shadow requires a seperate shadow layer).
Another feature I wish PE (or any other Photoshop replacement) have is the Healing Brush (along with the Patch tool). By far, I have not seen anything similar on any other program, including Paint Shop Pro and GIMP. However that feature alone for me doesn’t justify a $500 increase in the price tag for me.
While at it, I’ll like to touch upon GIMP’s usability. Till today, I still don’t know how to use many of GIMP features. It is so complicated… I read many books, read many guides. BTW, I’m saying that not because I’m used to Photoshop, GIMP is pretty much the first application of its genre I actually use (in other words, I used Photoshop later, and it was a walk in the park in comparison).
Yet another thing is the Magic Wand tool. I prefer Photoshop’s version of it than GIMP’s. GIMP *normally* selects anything within the color range, even with a totally different tonne, so working with b&w photos is hard.
So, IMHO, as a normal consumer (not print house material), I rather pay that norminal OEM Windows fee for my PC, and $100 for Photoshop Elements than to use GIMP on Linux. Just to point out, the last version of GIMP i have used is 1.3.11 (the unstable one) and 1.2.1 (so I’m not ignorant about the latest and greatest, but my post is pretty much centred upon 1.2.1).
My Goodness Eugenia. Take a pill. I have a right to my opinion whether you like it or not.
Oh. and just because you don’t like my opinion. Does not mean I do not have a right to post it. I don’t appreciate you mouthing me off Eugenia. I’ve defended you in posts before and I felt a need to say what i wanted. So i’d appreciate it if you didn’t shoot down my right to free speech.
when you people will understand that the “microsoft way” has made a big damage on our minds? You still try to find everything you could ever need in one OS…
Do you need something Linux can’t do? well simply use windows!
Just afew examples, i’m a web programmer/designer inpendent consultant, musician and everything that is funny for me (Leonardo was an engineer and an artist…) and i have to work with different people, for my programming suff i only use Linux (gentoo if you care), even for web design (i think Quanta is one of the best tools available), but when it comes to work with some graphic studio i have a G4 with OSX/OS9 that works fine, and for my sequencing stuff i have a laptop with WinXP and CubaseSX, everything is paid.
The math is easy, a Ferrari is not suited for everything, try to go offroad with a car like that, for that you need a Jeep, so why shoul a PC do everything?
Just have a machine for every job you have to do.
(this concept comes from music, nobody would ever think of using a single pc for recording, sequencing, post-editing,etc. I have a synthtizer a sequencer, a sampler a mixer, etc. not a pc that makes everything)
It’s sad when one of the moderators of the forums becomes one of it’s most hostile members. This is an OS site, and comparisons between OSa and OSb are valid…regardless of whether or not Eugenia has declared it moot. I am getting very turned off by the attitudes that seem to pervade these boards. The owners of OSnews.com should really consider her attitude towards it’s customers. Customer? Yep, I make it a point ot always click at least one banner ad per visit…which is about 5 times a day.
Ok, so here we go, call me a troll, stupid, idiotic, YELL AT ME, declare that this is OT and you will not allow it to continue.
@element
I agree with your comments about the lack of a decent HTML editor for GNU/Linux. Quanta, Bluefish, etc… are a joke. They are more along the lines of low end shareware HTML editors on Windows. I would even be happy with something like HTML Kit on Linux, but I don’t think anything will come close to Dreamweaver MX on Linux for a long time.
Contrary to some other comments made above, I’m talking about professional web developing, handling hundreds or thousands of pages, so notepad isn’t an option (although I’ll fire it up for a quick edit sometimes) for complex, team based site management.
Joe, exactly, when you have to manage a lot of pages, complicated pages, you gotta have a wysiwyg editor and a decent site management tool integrated with it. I only use notepad, Homesite, programmers notepad, whatever text editor, to clean up code and/or quickly fix something, but never to start designing a site from scratch.
People who tell me they only use text editors for making websites and think it makes them l33t, should know better. It’s just not productive enough (sometimes).
Sure, big sites need better tools. That’s ALWAYS a given.
If you want Dreamweaver on Linux, this is how to install it.
http://frankscorner.org/wine/modules.php?op=modload&name=Sections&f…
I’m sure the text color dialog will be fixed soon, if it hasn’t been already.
Thanks Dingofish. I appreciate it. I didn’t think it was justified either.
I find these arguments about Linux vs. Windows on the desktop rather funny. In particular, I find them funny because (1) I can only see 3 letters at a time on the screen, so what the hell do I care aobut a desktop/mouse/gui thang anyway? (2) Linux evolved closely from UNIX, which is the reason I have Linux in the first place; there are a billion things I can do more readily with UNIX than I can with Microsoft operating systems, unless I supplement the MS stuff with a lot of UNIX tools that don’t come with it; even then, I have to have the *latest* Microsoft OS’s for those tools to even approximate proper operation.
Yeah, so you can sit around all day arguing whether Linux users can do everything Microsoft users can, or you can sit quiet for awhile, think about the differences, run both of the OS’s, and learn something new for a change.
For example, people don’t all use their desks for the same things.
…this may seem like a stupid question to some of you (writhers, game-players, and so on,) but answer me this:
Why doesn’t a garden-variety, store-bought copy of a Microsoft OS ever ship with a compiler and an assembler?
Huh?
—-
If you want Dreamweaver on Linux, this is how to install it.
http ://frankscorner.org/wine/modules.php?op=modload&name=Sectio…
I’m sure the text color dialog will be fixed soon, if it hasn’t been already.
—-
Did you even read this? First off this requires Wine to be installed already. Not every distro does this. Hell even Lycoris (a desktop distro) doesn’t.
I don’t think you get it. People want to use their computers, not become computer engineers just install a program. Nor do they want to, look for the most uneasy way to do something just because they are not a professional. Sure a home user can use emacs to write a website, but hell they’d like it more using Go Live.
Why not make a users life easier than have them jump thru hoops just to make the sandbox work.
“Did you even read this? First off this requires Wine to be installed already. Not every distro does this. Hell even Lycoris (a desktop distro) doesn’t.”
yes they do….installed and preconfigured.
i agree with thte rest of your comment, but I think Lycoris has a good start on this. they are more focused on it than any other distro IMNSHO….
RedHat 8.0 installs it as well.
“I don’t think you get it. People want to use their computers, not become computer engineers just install a program. Nor do
Clicking icons isn’t using their computers? LOL
“they want to, look for the most uneasy way to do something just because they are not a professional. Sure a home user can use emacs to write a website, but hell they’d like it more using Go Live. ”
I provided a way to get Dreamweaver going that requires one extra step. If that’s too tough then by all means use Windows.
I just mailed off my order form for Lycoris, when I get it I will make my judgements from there. I have heard so much about it I am going to go ahead and try it. As for the interview they seem very personable and I wish them all the best luck. Anything is better then Lindows and I hope Lycoris succeeds and drives Lindows right out of business. The price of Lycoris is very reasonable even for the deluxe version and I dont have to sit there and worry about downloading anything just to get a usable system. If I like Lycoris then Im going to go with the Gamepak. I have WineX right now with SuSE 8.1 Pro and it is very good some games it throws audio off but as for play and performance it is very good.
Actually, I couldn’t pull up the article. I just got a blank page when I clicked on the link. But more importantly, why does seemingly every subject brought up on this site degenerate into an argument between a few people that usually has only peripheral relevance to the initial subject?
For most consumers and professionals the Gimp is a very good program and is ” good enough ” for them to get the job done, so the point of Application support is a dead issue. But one thing that I find interesting is that point made in the article about Windows emulation. I agree in order for any Linux distro to make it they need to at some point ween their customers off of Microsoft applications otherwise then yes it will wind up like OS/2, thats what we need to be concerned about. Make Linux versions or alternatives to Windows apps, we need a Flash studio, DV and Video editor, a good one and not one of these where you have to be a Geek just to configure these things and we need Quicktime viewers. The easier the Application the more consumers will move over and switch to Linux. As for Mac OS X I dont see that as a real alternative to Windows or Linux because you will lose your hardware investment and most peopl cant afford $1500.00 just for a computer, it isnt economical.
I don’t see why everyone bitches and moans about applications and says “Linux isn’t ready.” Applications are applications. They come go where users are. The linux kernel is certainly ready for anyone. KDE is there. Gnome is getting there.
As a useful home operating system, linux is well on its way. Now, I am a windows user. I like Windows XP a lot; however, I still support linux because I want to see it succeed. I don’t understand MS zealots at all. People are like “MS Rules!!!” Apparently these idiots never had deal with Windows 95 or ME. It took MS how long to make a great desktop OS? Linux is already far ahead of what 95 was and in only a fraction of the time.
Roberto, when you get Lycoris, be sure to go to the Lycoris community site (www.lycoris.org) and spend time there. You’ll never meet friendlier Linux people.
To Anonoymous,
How is Sun (StarOffice) copying from OpenOffice. It came from Sun. Sun purchased it from a German company if I remember correctly.
Aitvo: RedHat 8.0 installs it as well.
Not by default it doesn’t.
Aitvo: Clicking icons isn’t using their computers? LOL
There you see, the average Linux zealot. People don’t care that Microsoft is run by Satan himself. They want to use something that works fastest and best.
Aitvo: I provided a way to get Dreamweaver going that requires one extra step. If that’s too tough then by all means use Windows.
Which involves installing two packages from Microsoft, adding 5 lines to a register-like file, 4 commands…. for what? To run Dreamweaver with problems on Linux just to run away from the evil empire.
A lot of Linux applications *can* get the job done for me. But why am I (still) using its Windows applications (Photoshop Elements, Office, etc.)?
Because it gets the job done faster. Mind you, I have been using GIMP for over a year exclusively (at least 2 hours a week on it), and now using Photoshop Elements, it is very very very hard to go back. Sure, I can do basic editing on GIMP. But would I prefer it over Photoshop? Never (at least for 1.2.x and 1.3.x).
>>Aitvo: RedHat 8.0 installs it as well.
>Not by default it doesn’t.
YES IT DOES! Click the little windows support thingy when you are installing and OH THERE IT IS!
>>Aitvo: Clicking icons isn’t using their computers? LOL
>There you see, the average Linux zealot. People don’t care that Microsoft is run by Satan himself. They want to use something that works fastest and best.
Are you a moron? The following “Clicking icons isn’t using their computers?” does not make me a zealot, however your constant half assed attempts to make Linux look bad does make you one. Example: “They want to use something that works fastest and best.”
Windows is not “fastest and best”. By the time Antivirus, Firewalling, and every other systray applet on earth is loaded Windows is already swapping from STARING UP! Quit talking shit. As for “best” sure it works great until they check their email, and then wonder why their computer went into boot loops.
>>Aitvo: I provided a way to get Dreamweaver going that requires one extra step. If that’s too tough then by all means use Windows.
>Which involves installing two packages from Microsoft, adding 5 lines to a register-like file, 4 commands…. for what? To run Dreamweaver with problems on Linux just to run away from the evil empire.
WAAAH I HAVE TO ENTER 4 COMMANDS OH POOR ME!
Aitvo, tsk tsk tsk…
the whole windows situation you described is a blanket statement, and heavily exadurated. Windows doesnt crash when checking for email. Windows is functional ENOUGH.
XP works like a wonder, 98 doesnt
I use linux, too and like it better, though.
Like I said, history tells it differently. But history is old news.
I didn’t say they were copying. I did say that StarOffice is OpenOffice.org rebranded and with a few extras. That isn’t to say Sun isn’t entitled to do what it’s doing – it’s more than entitled in fact. My point is that Lycoris and Sun (and now I think about it SOT as well) are all (legally) selling OpenOffice.org-based products. And people are buying them.
Therefore, to get back to the original point, we shouldn’t be nay-saying Lycoris for selling a souped-up OpenOffice.org; the idea isn’t new and both SOT and Sun have done it successfully.
@Aitvo
Thank for the link, I had no idea MX coud run with wine.
However, I don’t really believe in running anything in wine, what I’m hoping for is a NATIVE Linux app someday.
Ok
By the way I’m not nay-saying them. I purchased a copy of the ProductivityPak and enjoy it.
“Windows doesnt crash when checking for email. Windows is functional ENOUGH. ”
Actually I was referring to one of many security holes in their software. It’s getting better, but “getting better” a poor excuse.
Anytime! I’m not a big wine fan either, I always prefer native applications but it helps in a lot of situations. I’ve found less than a 10% performance loss while using wine vs native so I can live with it until native support happens.
By the way I’m not nay-saying them. I purchased a copy of the ProductivityPak and enjoy it.
Sorry, that wasn’t directed at you 🙁
YES IT DOES! Click the little windows support thingy when you are installing and OH THERE IT IS!
Default: (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=default&r=67)
Computer Science. A particular setting or value for a variable that is assigned automatically by an operating system and remains in effect unless canceled or overridden by the operator: changed the default for the font in the word processing program.
KOffice can be installed during installation too. Is it installed by default? Nope.
By the time Antivirus, Firewalling, and every other systray applet on earth is loaded Windows is already swapping from STARING UP!
My computer;
800Mhz Pentium III
192MB of RAM (SDRAM PC100)
Startup applications include
Zone-Alarm
Panda AV
ICQ
Do I go into swap? Nope.
On my Linux machine, without a firewall or any other AV (if there is any on Linux), it enters swap. Sure, it has 64mb less than Windows, but remember, I load by default three extra apps. And by time I log into KDE, I’m in swap.
WAAAH I HAVE TO ENTER 4 COMMANDS OH POOR ME!
I’m just showing a comparison with O COMMANDS ON WINDOWS, and I get a much more productive session in the end (it works as it should be, unlike on Wine where even the smallest apps don’t work all that great).
And not to mention it is much faster than on Wine. I didn’t try it on Dreamweaver MX, but every other app i used on Wine is faster on Windows, many cases by a significant amount (Wine 20030115, I installed it a week or two ago).
And still you haven’t answered me. What is the incentive of moving to Linux if your apps is all going to run on Wine?
Security? I never had a virus problem. *NEVER*. I have a AV which uses very little RAM and CPU time. I don’t use software that happen to be riddle with viruses (namely Internet Explorer, Outlook Express and especially IIS and MS SQL), and I use a Firewall.
Never had a security problem. I had people scanning my ports… but hey, that’s what a firewall is for.
>>YES IT DOES! Click the little windows support thingy when you are installing and OH THERE IT IS!
>Default: (http ://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=default&r=67)
>Computer Science. A particular setting or value for a variable that is assigned automatically by an operating system and remains in effect unless canceled or overridden by the operator: changed the default for the font in the word processing program.
>KOffice can be installed during installation too. Is it installed by default? Nope.
Oh, ok so it’s something that has to be clicked. I understand now why it’s so challenging.
>>By the time Antivirus, Firewalling, and every other systray applet on earth is loaded Windows is already swapping from STARING UP!
>My computer;
>800Mhz Pentium III
>192MB of RAM (SDRAM PC100)
>Startup applications include
>Zone-Alarm
>Panda AV
>ICQ
>Do I go into swap? Nope.
Hmm, I thought we were talking about average computer users. W/ 192MB of RAM, you aren’t far from your swapfile.
>On my Linux machine, without a firewall or any other AV (if there is any on Linux), it enters swap. Sure, it has 64mb less than Windows, but remember, I load by default three extra apps. And by time I log into KDE, I’m in swap.
Riight, you give it less RAM than your Windows box then complain that it swaps. Typical trolling.
>>WAAAH I HAVE TO ENTER 4 COMMANDS OH POOR ME!
>I’m just showing a comparison with O COMMANDS ON WINDOWS, and I get a much more productive session in the end (it works as it should be, unlike on Wine where even the smallest apps don’t work all that great).
MUCH more productive, those 4 extra steps are a KILLER!
>>And not to mention it is much faster than on Wine. I didn’t try it on Dreamweaver MX, but every other app i used on Wine is faster on Windows, many cases by a significant amount (Wine 20030115, I installed it a week or two ago).
Bullshit, I tested cpu times while playing quicktime both in WINE, and NATIVE. There was less than a 10% loss in WINE.
>And still you haven’t answered me. What is the incentive of moving to Linux if your apps is all going to run on Wine?
What’s the incentive? Security, stability, productivity (no more patch -> reboot twice a day), and you get COMPLETE control of your computer. If you don’t need any of these things, then hey keep using Windows.
>Security? I never had a virus problem. *NEVER*. I have a AV which uses very little RAM and CPU time. I don’t use software that happen to be riddle with viruses (namely Internet Explorer, Outlook Express and especially IIS and MS SQL), and I use a Firewall.
Right, you and the other one person in the world that hasn’t had one. How do you know that you don’t? Better make sure it hasn’t disabled your AV. LOL
>Never had a security problem. I had people scanning my ports… but hey, that’s what a firewall is for.
Riight, until the one time that you do and it destroys everything. If you want to run that risk hey, it’s your call. Don’t come in here talking shit, especially when you don’t know enough about it to back it up.
Aitvo: Oh, ok so it’s something that has to be clicked. I understand now why it’s so challenging.
No, for someone who never used Linux before, they have NO idea what’s KOffice. Plus, that option you mentioned is only available via the Custom installation route. So in other words, it is not fucking default.
Riight, you give it less RAM than your Windows box then complain that it swaps.
64mb less RAM, yes I would complain. Especially since you claim that Windows goes into swap because of start-up applications. Plus, you are forgeting by default Windows loads more apps on start-up than my Linux installation.
Bullshit, I tested cpu times while playing quicktime both in WINE, and NATIVE. There was less than a 10% loss in WINE.
10% is significant for me. I didn’t say 2 times slower or way way slower. I said noticibly slower. To quote: “And not to mention it is much faster than on Wine. I didn’t try it on Dreamweaver MX, but every other app i used on Wine is faster on Windows, many cases by a significant amount ”
Besides, a lot of work has gone into making Quicktime work better on Wine. Why not try other apps, like mIRC, or a old version of Photoshop (3.0, the one I tried), or something of that sort? Or better still, get Cross-over Office and compare Office’s speed on Linux and on Windows. You’d be surpised at the difference.
And like you said, it is 10% slower. But then you are also forgeting the amount of CPU time other services, like XFree86, KDE(okay, let’s make this optional), etc. take that don’t on Windows.
Security, stability, productivity (no more patch -> reboot twice a day), and you get COMPLETE control of your computer.
I’m smart, I got security. I never had a security problem with my PC. As for stability, sure Linux can handle loads more than Windows, but for running Wine apps, I damn sure Windows is far more stable. And as for productivity, I don’t reboot twice a day. Heck, this Win2k PC has been running for 3 days, and was off 3 days ago by a black-out (beyond my control). And mind you, I have total control of my computer.
Right, you and the other one person in the world that hasn’t had one. How do you know that you don’t?
How do you know if you don’t have roaches in your brain?
Better make sure it hasn’t disabled your AV.
All viruses I know that disable any AV software normally are destructive. Never had a problem here, buddy.
Riight, until the one time that you do and it destroys everything.
I have no idea what you meant with that statement. Besides, I had people trying to scan my ports back then when I was using Linux, did I blame Linux? Most security problems on Windows desktop is cause mostly by ignorant users. I can make a pretty much insecure installation of Linux, would that count? It all falls on the user. If they use “password” or “sex” or something of that sort for their password, they are doom. If they use the built-in XP firewall or nothing at all, doom. If they don’t use AV and open just about every suspicious attachment and use Outlook Express, they are doom. If they are willing to buy Viagra advertise from spam or so-call free porn site, doom I’d tell you.
If you move all the idiots to Linux, well, hello viruses, scam artists, spyware, blah blah blah.
>>Aitvo: Oh, ok so it’s something that has to be clicked. I understand now why it’s so challenging.
>No, for someone who never used Linux before, they have NO idea what’s KOffice. Plus, that option you mentioned is only available via the Custom installation route. So in other words, it is not fucking default.
Right, I can see how they can miss the “Windows and Dos” compatability checkbox because they have never used Linux before. It’s not like it’s RIGHT THERE PLAIN AS DAY!
>>Riight, you give it less RAM than your Windows box then complain that it swaps.
>64mb less RAM, yes I would complain. Especially since you claim that Windows goes into swap because of start-up applications. Plus, you are forgeting by default Windows loads more apps on start-up than my Linux installation.
Of course you would, you are a troll. If you spent as much time tuning Linux the way you’ve tuned Windows, you’d find Linux was much lighter. What you can’t seem to get out is that the average user’s computer will be SLOW.
>>Bullshit, I tested cpu times while playing quicktime both in WINE, and NATIVE. There was less than a 10% loss in WINE.
>10% is significant for me. I didn’t say 2 times slower or way way slower. I said noticibly slower. To quote: “And not to mention it is much faster than on Wine. I didn’t try it on Dreamweaver MX, but every other app i used on Wine is faster on Windows, many cases by a significant amount ”
You run a pentium 100? That’s the only scenario I can see where it would be an issue. On my 400 the only reason I saw a difference was because I was WATCHING cpu times.
>>Besides, a lot of work has gone into making Quicktime work better on Wine. Why not try other apps, like mIRC, or a old version of Photoshop (3.0, the one I tried), or something of that sort? Or better still, get Cross-over Office and compare Office’s speed on Linux and on Windows. You’d be surpised at the difference.
>And like you said, it is 10% slower. But then you are also forgeting the amount of CPU time other services, like XFree86, KDE(okay, let’s make this optional), etc. take that don’t on Windows.
Oh, Norton doesn’t use CPU time? IE w/ flash etc doesn’t use CPU time? Please explain this one a little better. I’d really like to know how X and KDE use more CPU time than Windows.
>>Security, stability, productivity (no more patch -> reboot twice a day), and you get COMPLETE control of your computer.
>I’m smart, I got security. I never had a security problem with my PC. As for stability, sure Linux can handle loads more than Windows, but for running Wine apps, I damn sure Windows is far more stable. And as for productivity, I don’t reboot twice a day. Heck, this Win2k PC has been running for 3 days, and was off 3 days ago by a black-out (beyond my control). And mind you, I have total control of my computer.
Yeah, so smart. Please tell me how you have total control of your computer. Can you uninstall Internet Explorer? Can you uninstall Outlook Express? You are blind if you believe you have control of your computer.
>>Right, you and the other one person in the world that hasn’t had one. How do you know that you don’t?
>How do you know if you don’t have roaches in your brain?
Typical troll, when backed into a corner you turn to bashing.
>>Better make sure it hasn’t disabled your AV.
>All viruses I know that disable any AV software normally are destructive. Never had a problem here, buddy.
Right, how many are out there that you don’t know of? There are more than 62,000 virus threats out there TODAY, You are so smart that you know every single one of them though right?
>>Riight, until the one time that you do and it destroys everything.
>I have no idea what you meant with that statement. Besides, I had people trying to scan my ports back then when I was using Linux, did I blame Linux? Most security problems on Windows desktop is cause mostly by ignorant users. I can make a pretty much insecure installation of Linux, would that count? It all falls on the user. If they use “password” or “sex” or something of that sort for their password, they are doom. If they use the built-in XP firewall or nothing at all, doom. If they don’t use AV and open just about every suspicious attachment and use Outlook Express, they are doom. If they are willing to buy Viagra advertise from spam or so-call free porn site, doom I’d tell you.
Of course you don’t, one day there will be a virus or attacker that will be able to get through your anti virus, or your firewall, and will KILL your computer. I’m glad for you that you are OK with that risk, but don’t go spreading lies that Windows is a better OS, or that it is secure because it’s NOT.
>If you move all the idiots to Linux, well, hello viruses, scam artists, spyware, blah blah blah.
Riight, sort of like Apache has so many security problems because more people use it than IIS. Wait, it doesn’t.
Right, I can see how they can miss the “Windows and Dos” compatability checkbox because they have never used Linux before. It’s not like it’s RIGHT THERE PLAIN AS DAY!
You only get that dialog when you click on “Custom” or “Workstation”.
Custom: “Select this installation type to gain complete control over the installation process, including software packages and authentication preferences”.
Workstation: “This option installs a graphical desktop enviroment with tools for software development and software administration”.
Now, do you think any novice to Linux would pick any of the above choices? Think, Aitvo, think. Screenshot: http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/linux/RHL-8.0-Manual/install-gui…
Of course you would, you are a troll.
Actually, you are the troll.
If you spent as much time tuning Linux the way you’ve tuned Windows, you’d find Linux was much lighter.
I compiled my own kernel with the pre-emptive kernel patch (2.4.19), I compiled XFree86 4.3 preview (4.2.99.1), KDE 3.1 RC3 (downloading and compiling the final one of these days), Qt 3.1.0 (would download the bug fix release one of these days), etc.
And on Windows, all I did was install Zone Alarm and Panda. Wow, nice troll.
You run a pentium 100? That’s the only scenario I can see where it would be an issue. On my 400 the only reason I saw a difference was because I was WATCHING cpu times.
Funny, I saw difference without seeing CPU times. And I’m comparing Wine on a Duron 1.1Ghz and a Pentium III 800Mhz.
Oh, Norton doesn’t use CPU time?
I hate Norton. I don’t use it. I never will.
IE w/ flash etc doesn’t use CPU time?
Yes, IE is needed to run your desktop, while KDE isn’t. Actually, I use Opera.
I’d really like to know how X and KDE use more CPU time than Windows.
I suggest you compare it yourself. A complete boot up without Aurora on Mandrake from the bootloader to opening KDE takes far more RAM than Windows 2000 or Windows XP.
Can you uninstall Internet Explorer?
Why would I want to? Most of my apps depend on certain DLLs of it, it is as smart as removing Qt on Linux and expecting Qt apps to run.
Can you uninstall Outlook Express?
Same answer as above.
You are blind if you believe you have control of your computer.
Well, sorry to say I’m blind. I’m so blind I think I have control over my PC. After all, Microsoft forbids me from using Opera, therefore this illusion of me using Opera is fake. And Microsoft forbids me from using Opera Mail, therefore this illusion of me using Opera for mail is also fake.
Mi Dios!
Typical troll, when backed into a corner you turn to bashing.
Well, you said what proof I had that I don’t have viruses on my Windows installation. I answered in the same rtheoric asking you what proof you had on my Windows installations having viruses.
Right, how many are out there that you don’t know of? There are more than 62,000 virus threats out there TODAY, You are so smart that you know every single one of them though right?
No. I’m smart enough firstly NOT to use Outlook Express. Then i’m also smart enough NOT to open attachments I didn’t request for, especially attachments with a extention like .vb ir .js or .hta or .exe. I’m also smart enough not to run as a Adminstrator or a Power User. I’m also smart enough to not use Internet Explorer unless it is very much needed. I’m also smart enough not to use IIS or SQL or Exchange. I’m also smart enough not to open a Office file without scanning it, and I’m darn smart enough not to open a Office file I never requested. I’m darn smart enough not to download random files on Kazaa and open them. and I’m very much smart enough not to accept all DCCs I get on IRC.
How smart are you?
Of course you don’t, one day there will be a virus or attacker that will be able to get through your anti virus, or your firewall, and will KILL your computer.
Well, I’m waiting for that day. Hmm, look, it still haven’t came yet. During that Zone Alarm is updated, same with Panda AV. Been using Windows for 1.25 years, no problems so far buddy.
Riight, sort of like Apache has so many security problems because more people use it than IIS.
IIS design itself is badly done, security point of view. Meanwhile Apache isn’t runned by idiots (it’s installation is hard enough to prevent that). But for most Linux apps, the same can’t be said as for Apache. Little desktop Linux apps actually include security as part of their initial design phrase.
Plus, a lot of viruses, like Melissa and similar spread via the user’s neglection and not for anything else. This can happen on Linux if there were wide spread use of Linux and a certain app on Linux (just say Mozilla, Evolution and Linux were the dominant ones and not IE, OE and Windows, the prior three would recieve the same threat as the latter three now).