Apple Computer, formerly the undisputed leader in sales of personal computers to schools, has steadily lost ground over the years to lower-priced PCs that run Microsoft Windows software. And these days the company faces another threat in the education market: a proposed class-action legal settlement by Microsoft that could result in the donation of hundreds of millions of dollars of Microsoft software to needy schools throughout California.
Microsoft Loosens Apple’s Hold on Schools
About The Author
Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
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Today, only a relatively small number of Apple-label systems remain scattered throughout Clayton County schools. The district now has 15,000 Windows-based machines — all made by Dell. “Mostly, it was due to cost,” said Todd Williams, Clayton’s director of technology. “But it was also decided based on what our students were more likely to see in college and at work.”
And that is the primary and perfectly legitimate reason why Apple is losing the education market.
Microsoft sued Apple to give away free software to “needy” schools? How about any Linux vendor sues Microsoft to donate an endless supply of software to schools? They could base it on the fact that running Windows will put the schools into an endless loop of having to upgrade and having to buy more commercial software each year.
Microsoft’s “candyman” tactics frankly suck. Plus, if this doesnt stop, they’ll be teaching people “MS Office” and “MS Windows” instead of doing what they really should be doing – teaching computers and using computers. If possible then with at least two different operating systems or desktop environments.
All this teaching of Microsoft products has dumbed people down a lot. When a dialog window pops up, they dont read, they dont click, they just stare. Once, I was reading a newspaper and on a Linux workstation next to me, a beautiful young girl, about 17 years old started up Galeon. It then gave her an error message 100% in her and mine native language saying that Galeon crashed the last time and asking if she would like to start it up anyway. And surely enough, she just gave a blank stare for a minute or so and then asked me.
People need to be thought what a window is, what a button is, what to do should a message box pop up, etc, etc, etc. They do not need to know how to open a menu and to find a specific command in there. If that command is not there, what do they do? Nothing. At the same time, the same button is on the toolbar with a recognisable icon. Why dont they click it? Because they dont know they should look for it.
I skipped the computer classes at my school where they thought MS Word, MS Excel and MS Access. But I was there during the final exam. With no experience with either of those apps, I aced each test and finished time-wise before about half of everyone else. Why? How? Because I had used OpenOffice and KOffice before. Because I knew where to look for help instead of asking.
Okay, enough ranting…
I skipped the computer classes at my school where they thought MS Word, MS Excel and MS Access. But I was there during the final exam. With no experience with either of those apps, I aced each test and finished time-wise before about half of everyone else.
Sounds like a win for Microsoft’s usability department.
Today, only a relatively small number of Apple-label systems remain scattered throughout Clayton County schools. The district now has 15,000 Windows-based machines — all made by Dell. “Mostly, it was due to cost,” said Todd Williams, Clayton’s director of technology. “But it was also decided based on what our students were more likely to see in college and at work.”
And that is the primary and perfectly legitimate reason why Apple is losing the education market.
Bascule, please explain to us why this is legitimate?
It is not the job of the schools to “train” students, the primary goal is “education”. With the recent onslaught of high stakes testing, many standards within schools have changed to a more “real world or workplace” compentencies type environment. Although this type of vocational education may be legitimate for students not attending college, where is the academic rigor in a child understanding how MS Word or PowerPoint works? Why does a HS need to be teaching MS products? simply because that is what they will use in college?
>>>It is not the job of the schools to “train” students, the primary goal is “education”.
Kids can’t even do the basic 3R’s correctly. Take out the computers and go back to the basics.
…See subject
In my opinion, computer education is often wrong, and MS giving away stuff to schools will only make it worse.
Most computer teacher teach their students how to solve certain particular problems (eg: How do I copy a file from the hard disk to a floppy on this operating system). That’s wrong.
They should be teaching their students problem-solving skills, so that they can find out for themselves. They should teach how computers work in general, preferably with different operating systems, so that students learn to see the differences and ressemblances between them.
Students should learn about windows, yes, it’s the most used OS for desktop applications. They should however also get to take a look at other OS’s, notable Mac OS (if they’d ever end up in the graphics/music industry, your MS knowledge is worth ***), some flavor (maybe even multiple) of UNIX (I know OS X is a unix-like OS, but it’s a rather special one),…
If computer education doesn’t change, people will keep on wondering what the difference between right and left click is (there is no difference; it’s just a UI-thing), or where the ‘any’ key is, why the professor gets angry when they just power off the computers in the lab,…
Couldnt agree more!
And people who actually use the reboot button on the case to reboot… uhh… I hate those >_<
//People need to be thought what a window is, … //
//… where they thought MS Word, MS Excel and MS Access.//
So you went to some sort of ESP-MENSA school, where you could operate computers and software by merely thinking about them?
Cool. Must have been in the Oracle’s apartment in the Matrix. How do you get there, again?
>>>>They should teach how computers work in general, preferably with different operating systems, so that students learn to see the differences and ressemblances between them.
These are grade school and high school students who can’t read or write. Instead of spending the money on computers, they should concentrate on the 3R’s.
They turn it into a weapon, of a (too) constant upgrade cycle – which all are guilty of, though MS’s is very expensive in all ways. 15 apps (tools) to make 1 (one) thing operational – it just never ends.
Really great for the 20 people in that school (single) IT dept.
YOU and I are going to pay …again.
Open Source will fix this in the long run.
I’ve never seen a school running Apple comps. Schools used to run Dos, later with Windows 3.1 and these days it’s all Windows 98. You just learned how to copy a file in Dos.
It seems that these days Linux will be more popular at schools, Maybe Apple was popular at that Clayton school, but that doesn’t mean Apple in common in education.
I wish Apple was more popular, but that doesn’t mean it was.
Back when I was in school we used BBC Micros and Acorn Archimedies computers. The year I left they had just started “upgrading” to Windows 3.1 on 386 PCs, the computer teacher was against it but the school thought it was important to teach students a mainstream OS.
I got to use a stable and consistent OS, with powerful drag and drop, an iconbar(taskbar) and an elegant file manager. I really pity the students who had to suffer using Windows 3.1 & DOS. I doubt it gave them any advantages after Windows 95 was released, if anything the Win 95 GUI is closer to RISC OS than previous versions of Windows.
Z_God:
If you’ve never seen a school using Apple computers, you come from a very different school system than I did. Apple has long dominated at schools, and only recently has that balance started to shift. Very few schools ever used DOS/Win3.1 except in the office, for office tasks. At the school my mother teaches at, this is still true. Students and teachers use Macs, and the office staff uses wintel stuff.
I don’t blame the girl. It’s a dumb question.
It crashed. Want to start me up again, or not?
Think about it. How the hell should I know? For all I know, it could crash again on startup. Crashes are bad right? What if I break it?
MY school has Apple II’s way back in the day and that was it. From there they got like 1 computer a year foir a few years from things like returning campels soup lables and such. all Windows computers. In 98 when they finaly got a computer room all windows. Aside from the 80’s I can’t picture schools buying macs ether.
Dear Mr. rockwell,
It has come to my attention that you feel hate, even “racism” towards people who do not master the language of English. Why is that?
There are so many other things you could troll about when it comes to me. Upon your request, I will upload nude pictures of me and provide a description of my day so you could make fun of those.
Clearly, it seems, I’m a lesser person because of all these things. Clearly, you must also feel strong feelings of love towards Microsoft but were unable to provide any facts to back them up, so you just made fun of my English skills. Clearly, this post will be moderated down. Along with yours.
I’ve made my point, good night.
Elver Loho
The Freak Who Clearly Cannot Spell
It IS a dumb question, I agree with that. And I also think that Eugenia should write a review about the usability of common Linux applications some day. There are many things she’s bad at, there are many things that piss her off (just about anything really
but she’s an expert when it comes to GUIs.
What was Galeon really asking? I started using Opera 7 this weekend and once when it crashed, when I started it back up, it asked whether I wanted to start up with my normal start page (blank page for me), or whether I wanted to continue browsing the same pages as I was when it crashed – that makes a lot of sense to me and I appreciated the sentiment
I assume Galeon was asking the same thing ?
Why, so you PC Wenies can download it from Kazza?
The whole point of Macs being more expencive is a lie. I was talking to a worker at my school’s Computer Resource Center, and he showed me that the annual software (M$) licences on each of the Dells at my school cost more than twice as much as what my school pays for leaasing each Mac. On the Dells, the school also has to buy the hardware. So we have beutiful Macs with LCD monitors, for a fraction of the expence of a cheap Dell with a CRT Monitor (and Win 2K Advanced Server constantly crashing).
Like an earlier poster, I grew up with BBC Micros and Acorn computers at my school. No Apple in the UK schools, in the past or present.
I’m just glad our university had an Apple lab next door to the PC lab. Once was an overcrowded room full of people queueing up to use underpowered PCs. Meanwhile all the PowerPC 601 based Macs, running the same software, sat there unused. I just couldn’t be bothered wasting time waiting for something that was likely to lose all my work before I finished it, and learnt Mac OS. Funny how my coursemates used to moan about Word 6.0 losing their work all the time 🙂
People forget that Apple only is/was popular in schools in the USA. Not in Europe, at least not in Holland or the UK. The Acorn brand was very strong in the UK. We had shitty 486s at my high school.
…between learning about computers (how to use,program,etc )
and learning ON the computer.
Apple’s main thrust is the latter.
The major problem is a general “dumbing down” of American education. My son in 10th grade Geometry learns how to solve it, but has never had to do a proof. Same with computers. They learn by example, not by exercising their brains.
AS much as I love and prefer using my MAC, it is painfully obvious why Apple has lost computer sales to Wintel based machines. It all really comes down to price.<p>
I don’t think there are any school systems in this country who do not have budgetary constraints. And while our government (at least during the last adminsitration) stressed and supported advancing computer technology in the classroom, it’s still painfully absent in many inner city schools.<p>
Educators are forced to stretch their IT budgets to the max, and therefore often opt to buy Wintel on that basis alone. Hre is where Apple could have really helped themselves, but they continue a weak (pricing discout) policy with regard to schools and educational purchases.<p>
When we here of a school system making a major Apple purchase, it is likely that they cold negotiate with Apple becasue of the volume to get better pricing. If you ever looked at Apple’s edcational pricelist, you would see that there is a paltry $50-150 discount on hardware. It’s better on software, but without Apple hardware, the software savings become moot.<p> When you compare the iMAC for instance, you can only get a $50 savings on a $1,300 machine. You could get 2 complete Dell systems for the same price including a scanner and an injet printer and speakers.<p>
Not that the Dell systems are any better, but school boards look at price first, functionality second. Miami-Dade County schools in Florida started phasing out teh MAC in schools many years ago, and is 99% WIntel today. The more progressive Broward county school board opted for MACS a couple years ago and made the LARGEST single purchase in Apple history, from an end user (non-reseller).<p>
And let’s face it, we have to upgrade our software and hardware just as frequently as they do on the dark side. So I don’t consider that a fair argument of comparison either.<p>
In the final analysis, Apple would have done better in the long run insuring future purchasers by keeping Apple Macs in schools. Even if they had to “give” them away (which we all doesn’t happen). A paltry $100-150 savings means nothing compared to a “two for one” purcahse ratio, to a penny pinching shool board.<p>
They don’t consider the tech support cost much either. The Miami-Dade school board IT budget has increased disprportionalty over the years compared to the actual numbers of computer labs in schools. While it keeps me in work, I can see the wasted time on Wintel systems that just wouldn’t occur in current OSX systems.<p>
We have been trying for years to get them to make sure systems are upgraded yearly and old machines sold off in order to offset purchases. But they insist on keeping machines long past their maturity and usefullness. (They have old 386 Tandy machines still in use). Penny wise pound foolish!
… are usualy the ones I find that detest using them when they are out of school? How many times do you hear people say “you use an Apple? I use a real computer.” I think this may be related to the apples at schools always crashing, being in bad condition and somtimes never turned on.
my 2 cents.
That’s always the most absurd thing to say. “It’s better to learn the OS people are most likely to use once they’re out of school”.
He he. Nobody can have even the slightest idea what OS will be used 10 years after you started to learn the current “mainstream OS” at school. All the skills people gained using Win 3.1 didn’t help them using Win95 once they go out of school. I learned some programming on a Schneider (German Computer) CPC, my home computer was a Commodore 64 and the best selling machine at the time. I then became a designer and used Mac all the way (and some NeXTSTEP workstation because of the display PostScript that was helpful for prepress stuff). So I’m afraid all the BASIC programming really wasn’t of much use for my later life 😉
People should learn problem solving with computers in general and the basic principles of how computers work. Everything else is wasted time, because depending on what you will choose to do in the future even the most basic software you might end up using every day might be completely different from the guy next to you.
I was raised on macs at school and still prefer macs especially with the switch to OS X. Has this made me worse for the business world?
I have had no problem working on PC’s where the work requires and would argue that OS X is more important for schools do to Unix.
I am the head of my companies Widows computer network, intranet, and our e-business solutions.
Guess what, we are beginning the transition to using Macs.
sam… sadly, i agree. No computers should be allowed in elementary school, period. middle school is iffy. Kids needs to do simple multiplication in there head, and do long division by hand. I can, I am 16, and I pride myself on my mental math skills. Many (I’m not bragging, this is just sad) can’t do surprisingly simple math in there head, they have to stop and think.
In my school district all the elementary and middle schools use iMacs and then when you get to the highschool level you use Windoze. You can use macs at my highschool, but you have to take classes that uses the iMacs. We still get new Macs (graphic design) also. We have the oldest Macs, and the newest macs. Windoze I think is just gay and that Mac OS X is better.
There are no Macs here. Used to be a single LCiii, but no one used it so my wife brought it home – still belongs to the school I guess if they ever ask for it back.
Personally, when I took computer programming class we had Commodore 64 machines – they had just replaced the Vic20.
I have never worked for a single company that used Macs. That is definitely a valid reason for using Windows machines in the schools. It *is* what will be encountered in the workplace.
Also, hardware cost is a significant factor. The few teachers with new computers have absolute-bottom-of-the-line Gateways and the students use real pieces of crap. I’m sure Mac doesn’t make a single desktop computer that would be in this school’s price range. Of course if MS liscensing costs are so high that it tips the balance, schools should definitely reconsider. However I’m certain that software that came with the computers are the very same copies still being used today. It would be a serious waste of money to upgrade every time a new Windows OS or Office version was released.
If only more people knew of Open Office…
Perfectly legitimate, my hind end. So if one wants to learn to cook, then one must have to cook and to flip hamburgers, for that is what so many people eat. Must be true.
The folks who point out that children could be exposed to a variety of operating systems, I think, have the better argument. There is no good reason why the education structure should perpetuate a hegemony. This is stupidity, it is not education. So then we would have a state enshrined and imposed computing system.
This is the world that people want to live in, with a state approved OS? Not me
One world, one web, one platform.
Microsoft
Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer
A. Hitler
We run 889 Macs in my school district. They work fine. They aren’t really more expensive because we keep ’em five years (vs. only four for PCs), and they are cheaper to maintain (Two technicians keep all 889 running, while the third tech. runs a relative handful of PCs.)
Mac or PC, it all depends on whether people know what they are doing, not only technically, but in terms of organization and leadership.
What many of you do not realize is that Apple is losing some of their education market because the tech directors are no longer concerned about educating students. They are more concerned with puting technology out there. The tech directors, that are being hired by schools, do not have an education background, yet they know so much more about how to educate our children then teachers. MS Office is a nice set of applications, but they are still just a word processor, just a spreadsheet,, just a presentation tool, and just a mail app. Word today looks very little like it did 9 years ago, in that the menus have changed, but if you understand what it should be able to do, you can figure out the rest.
Face it people, we are teaching our students yesterday’s technology, instead of educating them about how they can adapt to whatever technology throws at them during their lifetime. Windows dumbs down the experience. Apple allows you to think and figure things out for yourself. As a long time cross platform household, my Dell is out by the trach, if anybody wants it.
Most of the people I know grew up on Macs at school when they were younger. Once we grew older PCs became the norm, with no compelling reason to keep using Macs. Now the IT people who haven’t used Macs in so long, can’t support Macs and don’t care to, and try to phase them out to simplify their jobs. I have seen several instances of this. Apple dropped the ball when we got to high school, and now it’s coming back to bite.
When I was going to school we had Pet computers… they were horrible. In highschool I didnt even take a computer class, but I did have a few computer systems at home. I did take a typing class and that was probably the best darn class I ever took in highschool… I didnt really like it at the time, but with all the typing I do now – it sure saves a TON of time.
The problem with computers in schools (even college) is that the administration wants only ONE platform (but others can have a niche – IF they are luckly). In my college days we have the VAX (old-big-unix server with termanls). This was PITA at times, but it did teach me some good skills. Apple at its height in the education market was around 35% or so … so that is one in every three school systems. Chances are good you have Apple’s in your school. The problem is – teaching Windows (esp Windows) or even any other single platform is really no more than a sales pitch. Lets see – Highschool is normally around 4 years. So when you started W’95 was the system… no Windows 2K or XP or Mac OS 9 or Mac OS X is the system. Things change and end users should be able to change, but unfornatuately they do not have the proper computing skills to do this. Now if they go on to a college that has Macs/ PCs or god forbid even Unix (Sun, SGI, Linux…) they might get a shock. Where is the anti virus software??? Where are all the security patches???
I think the best way to teach is to teach as many systems as is practical. I think this would be at least two – for non computer majors and probably all the ‘big’ ones for computer majors. I’ve worked in the IT industry for some time now and nothing is more pathetic than a Windows ‘tech’ (sales man?) steering a potential Mac users away form a Mac because of what someone told him/her or what he did with the system three or five years ago (they seem to think Apple’s never change – DOH). The smart techs were the unix guys. They could tech it all… Mac, Windows, Linux and maybe even some old/standard unix depending (and they were really good at getting info/finding solutions). Many of them prefered the Mac because it is the easiest to tech, but often the Windows ‘techs’ get confused because they havent a clue as to how to problem solve. I work with Windows five days a week. It really sucks… sure the boxes might be cheaper at first, but its maddening to see all the half arse junk at PC tech must put up with… I know there is good x86 hardware out there… but I havent found it yet. I have worked with Dells, Toshibas, ThinkPads and Gateway and I’ve never been impressed by any of them. When I go home I’m glad to USE my Mac as a tool to get done what needs to be done and have fun (yes there are even games for it). Mac OS X is great now (but not perfect yet) and I really dont think Linux is there for the masses yet. I can do windows, command line- Unix and even old style Mac OS on my system… and if I really feel crazy I can even install Windows 2K (or XP)…
That was pretty damn long… College also taught me to be verbose?
To summarize – it is not legit to run only one platform at school or even base purchases on intial cost only – because that is what they are doing. They are also not really looking at the big picture since in 4 or 8 years the world of computing is completely changed. Hopefully in 8 years we will be competely beyond the windows. 🙂
The idea that today’s kids in grammar school are going to be seeing things like Windows Me and XP machines by the time they escape to the real world is unlikely. I’ve heard this reasoning often, and don’t buy it. If you compare the machines twenty-somethings used back when they were in school, and the machines they use in the work place several years later, I think you will find that not only are you comparing DOS to Win98, or Win 3.1 and System 6 to Mac OS X, Linux, BSD, and Windows xp, but you’ll find that the youngster and the twentysomething are doing entirely different things with those machines. It is an absurd argument because a kid typically doesn’t use a computer in grammar school anything like how an adult works with a computer, and lo, five years is a big deal in computing: the machines and the environments leave the old gear in the dust. They aren’t the same, they aren’t even similar.
up until high school, there were only macs in the schools i went to (or the occassional apple II) and then everything went wrong from there as we were req’d to use windoze for evberything (there was a mac in the art wing, in the art teacher’s office). the college i go to has pc’s and mac’s (it’s nice to not have to wait to use the computer in the lab, if i can find the right one) and now i work in a high school that has macs and pc’s all over the school and 3 in the library. . . .especially in the arts and journalism rooms). the macintosh platform simply works and makes sense without having to figure out where things went to (from installs to simple saving a file to searching for your storage media). and as far as the discussion on laptops in schools/for teachers, how much simpler could networking/using as an educational tool be than ibook or powerbook loaded with OS X, airport, and Rendevous? plug in and go.
I have two kids 9 years and 13 yrs at home who use the computers I have at home;a mac with OS 9, a pc with win2000, a pc with windows 95 and a mac with yellow dog linux. One day I asked them which computer they liked to use the most and they asked me what was the difference.
I find this whole affair rather interesting. Should MS have decided to “give away” Windows and Office licenses to school by itself, they would probably have been accused of “dumping”. And rightly so. Every kid in the US would learn that computers == MS, and demand MS stuff later on in his/her life. A bad thing.
Now, because of this anti-trust thing, their “punishment” consists of doing what they would have _loved_ to do in the first place, but weren’t legally allowed. If I were MS, I would have one mighty chuckle over all this.
It’s as if you’re punishing a crack dealer not by seizing and destroying his stuff but by forcing him to give away 10% of his goods for free to school kids.
Setting in schools Windows (only) environment is like inviting drug-dealers instead teachers.
and i’m late as always
This seams like a stupid reason to teach MSFT products and OS. At UNLV here in Las Vegas, NV the main OS for the computer science department is Unix (mostly Linux and Solaris). They also have a super computer lab; which of course, runs Unix.
If you don’t want to have both MS and Unix machines in your school, then I would suggest using Macs. You can then teach Unix programing and general word processing and spread sheet usage. It’s not that hard to move between GUI bassed OSs once you’ve learned one.
You could also use Linux in the schools. I would still suggest Macs for the elementry schools. But Linux would be a good choice for high schools. It will also keep the students from bringing games and other un-authorized software from home; which is the main problem with most lab computers.
//Clearly, it seems, I’m a lesser person because of all these things. Clearly, you must also feel strong feelings of love towards Microsoft but were unable to provide any facts to back them up, so you just made fun of my English skills. Clearly, this post will be moderated down. Along with yours.//
Clearly, you cannot take a joke, much less criticism.
Grow up. I could care less about you.
I work for lausd and I think macs are way better in school then pc, especialy the iMacs. Why you may ask, well they are more rugged and easier to manage, and I know this because of my job as IT assistant. I am not against PCs, I prefer them, but in terms of user interaction and also productivity they do seems to be better. I also noticed that the software on the macs, refering to education one is better designed then in the PCs, what I mean by that, a better quality. I do think there should be PC in schools too, but I think with macs the school is more productive from what I see. In terms of hardware, we got IBM netvista and they are just plain junk, what I mean by that harddrive failures and also CD-ROMs. The failure on the iMac is average, most cases the CD-ROMs, but also since there is less movable equipment on the iMacs, students do not tend to vandalize it as much in terms of hardware and software, with or witout security programs or lockdowns.