“Sun did not invent the engineering workstation, but they certainly perfected it. But where are workstations today? Gone, for the most part. Sun’s workstation business is about the same size as SGI’s, which is to say small. Sun is now a server company, but that won’t last long either under the onslaught of Linux. Cheap Intel and AMD hardware running Linux is going to kill Sun unless the company does something so stop it, which they aren’t.” Cringely editorializes on Sun’s future.
How to Avoid the Almost Certain End of Sun Microsystems
About The Author
Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
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“McNealy has to not grow up. Be brash, be stupid even. Take enormous risks and do it with élan. Only then will Sun return to greatness.”
There you have it folks, Sun should merge with Lindows.com and Michael Robertson could be the new CEO.</sarcasm>
The only way Sun survives is following Apple’s direction into the niche market.
Its funny how we talk about Linux changing the traditional business model, when Microsoft did this 15 years ago.
Sun and Apple are the byproducts of the old business model of hardware + software.
Java. Everyone quickly forgets that there are thousands of major applications that use Java. Oracle alone has 10+ applications that are programmed using Java. And i seriously doubt that Oracle will rewrite its software into .Net.
Don’t underestimate Sun. It will adapt, maybe even better than the rest of the IT world.
This makes the top of my list for stupid comments. What should a consumer electronics company do with buying a Unix server vendor? Making those big servers fit on a watch? Solaris on your MP3 player? Gimme a break.
GetOutofHere, its funny that you say that, as I was JUST going to write that companies like Sun and Apple are the only remaining companies that can still diferentiate their products from the competition as PCs can only diferentiate on price… hence the reason why all the PC manufacturers are on the verge of going out of business.
Sun, may have a more difficult time in this regard, as Workstations and servers almost reguare that they be comodities, but desktops computers are screaming for some sort of diferentiation… Something Apple still has the ability to do… unlike all other PC manufacturers… other than perhaps Sony… who is at least recognising the need to add style. (Too bad their systems are based on a commodity architecture.
>>>>Java. Everyone quickly forgets that there are thousands of major applications that use Java. Oracle alone has 10+ applications that are programmed using Java. And i seriously doubt that Oracle will rewrite its software into .Net.
And what’s your point? IBM and BEA control 70% of the java market share. SUN is stuck in 4th place (5% market share) in the java market (behind 3rd placed Oracle).
Everybody else is making money on java, except SUN.
PCs can only diferentiate on price… hence the reason why all the PC manufacturers are on the verge of going out of business.
In the past (say, 10 years ago to the present), how did PC manufacturers differentiate themselves. By your argument, therefore, they should have been on the verge of going out of business for at least the past 10 years, correct?
I dont see the demise of Sun as quickly as people think. I dont see IBM’s mainframe or high end unix servers division going out of business or being phased out for cheap intel processors. Why should Sun’s own line be doomed? at the last minute, Sun will use linux in their high end and that will be it. The low end will be intel/amd.
But in the last 10 years, they have been going out of business. How many build to own OEMs do you see out there anymore? There’s Dell…that’s the big one. Everyone has gone the way of Resellers.
The PC commodity market is overflowing with PC Manufacturers and most of them are going out of business (or filing chapter XI). Most of that differentiation was price. That’s why Compaq, Packard Bell, etc were big names in the early 90’s. They were better priced than others.
Now that PCs are so damned cheap, you can’t differentiate on price…you need to differentiate on style, value adds, software, etc…
The only Manufacturer out there that I see standing out is AlienWare. They have nice looking POWERFUL machines built for gamers. They have a niche market.
Dell has support, but lately (after a 5 day long issue with their support crew), I have lost faith in that.
In the past (say, 10 years ago to the present), how did PC manufacturers differentiate themselves. By your argument, therefore, they should have been on the verge of going out of business for at least the past 10 years, correct?
moving production to other countries where labor is cheap, they were able to survive.
We have reach the point where the speed of the CPU is not important anymore, hence less need for upgrade. My 2 1/2 year old system can handle Windows XP and Redhat 8.0 without a problem. All of my customers are running the same system that I installed 2 years ago without whinning for upgrade like years past.
Most of the software in the market can be handled by 2 year old hardware.
Maybe TCPA/ Palladium will force hardware upgrade; other than that, I see no reason for upgrades. Also, the 64-bit CPU sounds like the best chance for massive introduction to TCPA.
I have no expertise in this area, but I have noted Sun stumbling along, trying to find something, anything, to hang its hat on. They seem totally lost.
I cannot see Sony getting involved in anything like this. As someone else indicated, why on earth would Sony be interested in this?
If something like this did happen (Sun going down the tubes), Apple does seem like the more likely candidate. Of course, it would depend on the financials of it all, which I am clueless about, but all I can think of is Jobs and NeXT and his/NeXT’s attempts to get into higher educational and scientific areas.
“The only Manufacturer out there that I see standing out is AlienWare. They have nice looking POWERFUL machines built for gamers. They have a niche market.”
While I certainly agree about Alienware, check out BOXX
http://www.boxxtech.com/Asp/main.asp
and Polywell
http://www.polywell.com/
>>>I dont see the demise of Sun as quickly as people think. I dont see IBM’s mainframe or high end unix servers division going out of business or being phased out for cheap intel processors. Why should Sun’s own line be doomed? at the last minute, Sun will use linux in their high end and that will be it. The low end will be intel/amd.
IBM is pragmatic — they will sell you anything you want (go to their Point-of-Sales website and you will see that they still support embedded DOS on their cash registers).
SUN is doomed because they aren’t pragmatic. They are doomed because they have a ego issue with Microsoft while other competitors scooped in to dominate the java market. They are doomed because they spent $2 billion to buy cobalt for its linux server business in 2000 — yet IBM/HP/Dell sells 99% of all linux server hardware.
In the past (say, 10 years ago to the present), how did PC manufacturers differentiate themselves. By your argument, therefore, they should have been on the verge of going out of business for at least the past 10 years, correct?
I didn’t make the original comment but I suggest you pick up a computer shopper from 10 years ago. What’s happened over the last 10 years to most of them is evidence for not against the hypthosis.
Why does this guy Cringely get any airtime whatsoever? This article is almost as bad as his some of his previous ones ( http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20030116.html ).
Is it a pre-requisite of getting public recognition, that one should be a moron?
RE: sam (IP: —.sympatico.ca)
I wouldn’t say that buying out Cobalt was a bad idea, what I would say is that they’ve stuffed-up the culture inside the company to such an extent that there isn’t the same dynamic, fast growing company it once was. You could call it “sun-a-lisation”. Its very similar to what happens when IBM buys out another company and tries to integrate their products into their line up.
GetOutofHere (IP: —.we.client2.attbi.com)
I understand what you mean, however, cheaper and some times crappier hardware are the driving demands of consumers. Most people what cheap, but when you say, “do you want quality” their reply is, “is it cheap”. Unfortunately 30-40years a go, when a person bought something, they expected it to last, now unfortunately it is a disposable society where people expect cheaper stuff. Unfortunately the net result are people whinging and whining about BSOD’s.
joey (IP: —.cox-internet.com)
IBM and their Power(x) processor is going to be around for a lot longer than the UltraSparc. Ultimately the deciding factor will be whether Itanium can step up to the wicket and hit a six. IBM is in no hurry, if Itanium works out, they’ll sell servers loaded with AIX or Linux, if Power5 and successive releases outperform the Itanium then they’ll keep selling Linux and AIX servers. From what I have read in my crystal ball, Intel later on this year is going to release an “Intanium III” processor, the cheapest being US$1300, which will be significantly cheaper than many of the RISC processors. If it also performs better, it will be a winning combination.
Anonymous (IP: —.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
Unfortunately I am not as optimistic as you. SUN has had atleast 2 years to restructure itself (2 years ago was the first decline in profits). They had 5years to do something about it during the “boom period” when analysts warned that they needed to expand rather than relying on a small number of clients. I don’t think SUN has listened. Now, in the future, I don’t think they’ll go into chapter 11, but instead be bought out by either IBM or HP/Compaq, most likely IBM.
Be tried, nevermind about the after Be rumours concerning Sony.
I’d love to see a merge of Sony with ANYONE in the computing biz, specially home computing, but they already have plans of their own, it strikes me a bit odd that Cringely forgot to mention Sony’s bet for Linux:
>>
Sony, Panasonic to develop Linux for digital home devices
December 19 2002
…
Based on the results of this co-development, the two companies are thinking of setting up a group with other electronics firms in order to expand these activities. Details will be discussed with companies supporting this idea such as Hitachi, IBM, NEC, Philips, Samsung and Sharp.
>>
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2002/12/19/1040174329260.html
“The only Manufacturer out there that I see standing out is AlienWare. They have nice looking POWERFUL machines built for gamers. They have a niche market.”
While I certainly agree about Alienware, check out BOXX
http://www.boxxtech.com/As p/main.asp
and Polywell
http://www.polywell.com/
Don’t forget about Falcon Northwest
http://www.falcon-nw.com
Love their cases, especially the Mach V Exotix ATC.
I agree completely with the author. For those of you disagreeing, please answer a simple question:
How is Sun going to continue making money?
Sure they have an installed base, much like Novell Netware. Some of those diehard clients will continue running sun for a few years. But that’s all. Unlike MS, for example, sun isn’t gunning for any new market. It isn’t leveraging its hardware expertise, or its OS expertise, into anything other than what it has always done. Where does that lead to? Inevitable death.
Unless they do something quick and radical, Sun will be another has-been.
Ignoring the comments about CPU speed and whatnot (which are completely irrelevant to the original point of “not being able to solidly differentiate == you die”), I just thought I’d make a few replies.
I didn’t make the original comment but I suggest you pick up a computer shopper from 10 years ago. What’s happened over the last 10 years to most of them is evidence for not against the hypthosis.
Please tell me which computer manufacturers you refer to, or at least provide a few examples. The only “major” one I can think of off the top of my head is Packard Bell, and the diminishing of minor ones such as Apex. And no, your local “let’s assemble stuff for you” computer shops aren’t computer manufacturers. Am I simply forgetting the demise of lots of major companies?
The PC commodity market is overflowing with PC Manufacturers and most of them are going out of business (or filing chapter XI).
I’m not necessarily disagreeing with you here, but would you please provide some examples of these manufacturers that are going out of business (and, even better, have those examples be companies that were once strong).
Now, I’m not arguing that the ability to differentiate isn’t important. I’m just curious why it’s so easy to claim that it’s a problem now, when these companies have been struggling with this problem since they got into the market. Seems a bit simplistic to me. Off the top of my head, I can think of a few ways to differentiate: price, perceived quality, support, included extras, visual appeal, etc. To me, at least, this is much the same as with cars, with the exception that cars are used as social status (“how much money does he have?”) much more so than computers or other home electronics equipment.
PC hardware running linux is fine and all (i use it myself), but it just aint in the same league as the large servers from IBM or SUN.
When you buy a SUN, what you pay for really is the, almost, unlimited scalability, and the stability. (whatever they really are more stable than intel servers can be discussed from now on and to eternity)
The only segment i see threatened really is the low end server market and the bottom of the middle range server market. The low end is already owned by windows and smaller unix servers, not made by sun, and i think the lower end of the middle range machines has been threatend for a long time. But i see no alternative to the high middle range and big iron servers, and i doubt this will change anytime soon.
As for their workstations, i dont think they will scrap it totally as people developing software for solaris will probably want to keep using them, but i would not be surprised if that is their only market. And i dont think this matters anyway, if they are to compete with the PC industry in this area then it will be hard to make money on it anyway.
Well, let’s look at the most recent of bad mergers, HP Compaq.
Lowered stocks, high prices and commodity parts. They are overshadowed by their greatest competitor (Dell). The former CEO of HP wanted to go direct to build, which could have been a big boost for them, but Carly said no…instead they are in Sam’s Clubs all over the country…and their stocks are STILL dropping.
HPQ has a good market, if they ever drive their alphas back to the market. That was why that merger should have happened. Instead, they hide any real data about them and instead push their itanium solutions (another big mistake).
That is one and problem the best example of failing pc manufacturers. But also look around, packard bell is gone, compaq has been sucked up, every where you look you see ads for apple or dell, but that’s about it. Gateway, i haven’t heard from them since last summer.
What used to be a HUGE market of pc manufacturers are now mostly widdled down to the top 3 or 4…and one of those isn’t even a ‘PC’ manufacturer…it’s Apple.
I think the commodity market is dying…PCs had a huge splurge in the mid to late 90’s but now that those who want them have them, it’s only a matter of time before the market basically dries up except for upgrades.
That’s all my opinion though.
Yes there will be people running linux and freebsd and such on x86 hardware out there. But that is not going to kill sun. People know if they get a SUN it’s going to last and there is someone to call when something happens. Small compaines will go with the x86 linux setup. Big fortune 500’s won’t be nearly so much. Those in charge want to see a nice sun or IBM in their place and know he have a good machine and some to call. If a company comes out and starts making very specilized x86 hardware and a very refined purpose made distro to run on it with vast tech support they can gain ground in these markets sun has. Also it will have to beat SUN&IBM in price and performance. The odds of such a maker springing up are low, SUN or IBM could crush them at their own game in no time. SUN and IBM have worked with linux, but you would have to be a very optimistic person to think that is where they are moving their future. They will keap going with there own OS’s till the sun burns out.
Also It’s people who don’t know a whole lot about computers and such in companies that are going to make the calls on purchases. If you were an exec or an accountant you will go with what you think is best. Also just look it from the stand point of if it was your company. You want to make sure you are going to have the most depenable system you can get. Are you going to get a SUN or IBM , or are you going to go with some x86 box the IT department guys put together and run an OS that is created by random people around the world and have no real tech support for it. If you say you would go the later I ether don’t belive you or you are a big risk taker. Most are going to go IBM and SUN , and IBM and SUN know this. They arn’t worried.
The only reasons IBM is getting behind Linux is to sell its crappy old hardware. Also why should it pay its developers to write code when it can throw it out to the open source community and have it done for free. Dont think that IBM and other big companies r backing Linux out of the goodness of thier hearts. They are in it to suck as much profit out of it as they can. IBM would back MS-DOS 2.11 if they thought it would sell some hardware for them.
The only push behind linux is that its cheap. There are better open source operating systems available.
The Linux distributors wouldnt know quality if it jumped up and bit them on the ass.
Sun isnt going away any time soon. Neither is thier Solaris OS.
>>>>I wouldn’t say that buying out Cobalt was a bad idea, what I would say is that they’ve stuffed-up the culture inside the company to such an extent that there isn’t the same dynamic, fast growing company it once was.
No, it’s much worst than its inability to be a “dynamic” company. SUN bought Cobalt for $2 billion (and went into linux) for no valid business reason other than to piss Microsoft. SUN bought StarOffice for $80 million for no valid business reason other than to piss Microsoft. SUN kept suing Microsoft on java (instead of actually fighting against IBM and BEA in the java market) for no valid business reason other than to piss Microsoft.
What Open Source operating systems are better than linux? I’m curious in your answer.
Each one has their own niche, I don’t believe the major open source operating systems can be labelled as one is better than the other.
OBOS? Not even close to being better, but it’s coming. FreeBSD is completely different in terms of who they are aiming to.
Mention one that has more applications, is nearly as mature for the server environment other than (Free|Open)BSD.
And then tell me why they are better in the server environment. Linux has IBM backing it for server environments, it has Sun (with the cobalts) and it has SGI (their new servers).
Corporate support is a big push for linux…don’t discredit that.
>>>Now, in the future, I don’t think they’ll go into chapter 11, but instead be bought out by either IBM or HP/Compaq, most likely IBM.
Why would IBM buy SUN? IBM’s Power4/5/6 are better than what SUN is offering now. When SUN goes down, SUN’s customers will have to buy a lot of consulting from IBM consulting for migration. That’s where the real profits will come from. IBM is now a services company.
>>>Are you going to get a SUN or IBM , or are you going to go with some x86 box the IT department guys put together and run an OS that is created by random people around the world and have no real tech support for it. If you say you would go the later I ether don’t belive you or you are a big risk taker.
Except that all the people are going to IBM instead of SUN.
Granted, I do not know the current state of Borland, atleast not the specifics, but I know that is have made some awesome development software in the past and is now battling it out with Visual Studio in a lossing battle. But with Sun’s Java and development software along Borland’s Java stuff, the two, along with maybe a 3rd money machine, would move into a pretty powerful match against MS Visual Studio.
Just a thought, maybe a bad one, just thought i would mention it.
>>>>But with Sun’s Java and development software along Borland’s Java stuff, the two, along with maybe a 3rd money machine, would move into a pretty powerful match against MS Visual Studio.
The real Microsoft Visual Studio .net competitor is IBM’s WebSphere/Eclipse, not SUN. Besides, Borland is backing both java and .net.
Remember Data General? Digital? Unisys? The kings of minicomputers?
Yes, Unisys is still around, but it’s now a lame and sad Microsoft VAR.
And now comes the second wave of workstation consolidation. SGI is in eternal trouble, Sun is in bad shape, IBM is the only with something like a gameplan and HPQ… hey, what’s HPQ is up to?
(Funny that Sun is one of those that helped to end the minicomputer era. And now the Sun of the moment is called Dell.)
And for Java… maybe IBM and Oracle gets the control of Java and then – and ONLY then, because I don’t believe in Sun leading it anymore – Java will thrive.
I don’t like this author. I think he bullshits a lot, especially against Microsoft. Many people were already saying that Sun will go down. It is inevitable. It is trying to compete against Linux and open source, although it denies it.
I hope you know that SUN actually own’s more intellectual property than the UltraSparc. Solaris is the most scalable UNIX on the market. Only HPUX even comes close. So, one could say they could merge the postitive aspects of Solaris into AIX. Java, IBM could finally grab it by its nuts and drag it into the 21st centry with a must needed overhaul. Heck, in a fit of optimism, IBM might even put it on a longer lead.
So no, IBM buying out SUN is not a wild dream.
>>>>Solaris is the most scalable UNIX on the market. Only HPUX even comes close. So, one could say they could merge the postitive aspects of Solaris into AIX.
What IBM has been doing is merging all the different hardware and OS’es to 1 single platform. They already did it for the mini-computers with Power4. The timeline is something like Power8 running on their mainframes with AIX replacing their mainframe operating system. Solaris may be a better Unix than AIX, but what IBM is doing is adding mainframe stuff to AIX, something you can’t get from Solaris. That’s BILLIONS of dollars of R&D savings every year.
>>>>Java, IBM could finally grab it by its nuts and drag it into the 21st centry with a must needed overhaul.
For all intent and purposes, IBM already controls java. Also PRECISELY BECAUSE of SUN’s unwillingness to truely put java to an international standard organization — that’s how IBM and BEA got all the market shares of the java market. Everybody fears SUN of monopolizing on java, so customers buy IBM/BEA java stuff.
well cesar.. datageneral is still here but they switched markets and are doing quite well .. not as well as say ibm but that was never the deal with that company… ;D
Also DEC got bought by compaq, which now is owned by HP. And Unisys was never known for their minis, it was a mainframe company (Borroughs and Sperry which were the companies that merged to form Unisys both were large systems manufactured).
A better example would have been Pr1me, they were a company that was born and died as a minicomputer manufacturer. Before they went belly up they started to sell rebaged mips workstations/servers (sgi actually) and try to add an unix layer to their propietary pr1mOS OS.
Another comment, Solaris is not the most scalable OS in the planet. IRIX is, by a long shot…. Up to 256 processor systems (and 512 in some cases) running a single image of the OS is not matched by anyone out there.
And yes SGI has been “dying” since they were first incorporated. Also SUN has been dying even during the .com boom. And IBM was supposed to have dissapeared like 10 years ago. Apple that is always my favourite dying company (Even when they have billions in cash). I would like some magazine editors to find new topics, or actual topics for that matter, for their stories… it is getting rather old.
This reminds me of that fable of the guy that was always predicting the dead of the king every year for like 40 years. When the king finally died (of old age), he was all happy and made everyone know how he had predicted the King’s dead…..
A merger with Sun would kill Sony. Any of you ever go through the hoops needed to get Solaris connected to the Internet? Read it and weep:
http://www.kempston.net/solaris/connectanyisp.html
By pusing Java Sun’s trapped themselves, because they’ve achieved what 30 years unix never did : ultimate cross unis compatibility :o)
Which was a graal for every unix labs
But doing this also bring competition to their solaris market !
Because once build a whole Java (let say J2EE) application it is quite easy to go and bench it under a other platform and see how it compete !
This is a great stuff, so people choose the best ROI OS, and not the best touted OS.
This is armfull for sparcs & solaris, as linux/x86 have lots of momentum at this time ! Think about it : you can run your Java application on whatever platform (OS, processor, …) you want ! Why will i stay on a 10x more expensive platform ?
Sun, will have to move to x86 ! Thanks to their cobalt unit, it is not such a big time to do it
At the same time, aint no trouble for us … who said cross cross-platform was void ?
-LEE
Ultimately, it is all the REAL CODE apps that are making Linux successful, not fake Java kode kibbles.
I can’t imagine Linux would have achieved much if it had been written in Sun’s “write once crash anywhere” language.
Just about all the apps and tools in the Linux world are written in C and C++. Because it works and because with a little care, C and C++ are quite portable.
It’s a good thing we are not running Java, because Java is owned by Sun and is a fake open standard. You’d be open to all sorts of Sun lawsuits down the road if you were using Java. Imagine you buy Java from IBM and IBM innovates some new extensions that make your application run really well. And then Sun sues IBM and gets an injunction and court ruling that all incompatible Java has to be expunged under threat of massive penalties. Yeah, Java is a great open standard, isn’t it?
Sun needs to realize that customers want choice, want more than one programming language, and want real open standards and not lip service. And customers don’t want to have to sue Sun in order to stop their platform (Solaris x86) from being dropped into the sewer. Unfortunately, according to all the SPARC-hedz that run SUN, Intel/x86 belongs in the sewer, so they never really support Solaris x86 like they do their homegrown stuff.
This guy never used serious Sun hardware…
Intel and AMD aren’t even 0.01% close to this.
He did the “Triumph Of the Nerds” multi-part series on PBS, which was great. So, he’s good on historical overview type of stuff, but not so good at instant analysis. Speaking of the Sun situation, he has sounded the death knell of Apple many times and has always been wrong. He is good at explaining computer techie stuff to ordinary people.
More lunacy from the guy who suggested that Microsoft “port Windows to Linux” — whatever that means. Cringely is the most ill-informed and technically stupid pundit around. It amazes me that people take him seriously.
First stupid thing he says: “Solaris users loves Solaris but hate Solaris prices.” Solaris costs like $85 — what on earth is he talking about? Solaris for Intel, should any one be insane enough to want to run it, is FREE, for Chrissakes.
And then he suggest that Sun merge with SONY? So PS2 users could have a 10,000 CPU fault-tolerant PS2 platform? Rediculous. Sun actually did a pretty good job in transitioning themselves from the 80’s, when they were primary a workstation company, to the 90’s, when then became a serious player in the mid-to-high end server market with amazing products like the E450, the E3500, and their flagship E10000. They certainly haven’t done as much with Java as they hoped, which I attribute to their difficulty making the mindset from the early-nineties propriatery UNIX work to the 21centure open-source model that really let’s software thrive. But I wouldn’t write them off yet. There are a TON of companies who have a TON of infrastructure running on Solaris. I’d hazard a guess that well over 50% of the ERP, SAP, PeopleSoft implementations done since 1995 involved large Sun server. And that’s a SHITLOAD of hardware. That’s why IBM is around — they sold a ton of hardware and people are now bought into their mindset. Sun is becoming a similar company — not sexy, like Apple or Red Hat. (giggles at the concept of RedHat being sexy, but that’s what the pundits say.)
The lesson is: Anything that Cringely says, is almost certainly wrong.
The real Sun problem is Sun. That’s the Cringely message, and that’s the point we should discuss, not hardware questions.
Sun started its life as a cheap alternative to those expensive workstations. Now Sun is the maker of expensive workstations, and doesn’t have a clue on what to do against Dell.
Besides that, that’s the whole Java mess. Fortunately for the Java developers there’s IBM.
And let us don’t forget the Solaris/x86 utter unneccessary mess. Sun is so overconfident of itself that can pull out customers, huh?
On Sony buying Sun… makes sense. Sony would be able to sell the whole package to broadcasters: servers, workstations, equipment, storage and such. With the necessary change in broadcast equipment to support HDTV, it’ll be a huge possibility to Sun.
have a look at low-mid range mobile phones. all becoming java enabled. an interesting issue for many operators is the commoditisation of the devices. if they sport MIDP 2.0 then thats enough to support a lot of downloadable applications (ie games, comms apps.) sun actually do fairly well out of this sort of thing. but if they go under, java will persist. mobile handsets and embedded devices completely submerge the PC as an end-user device.
so many people have written off sun in the past that it becomes tedious. they are actually a very strong systems company. and they have always hoicked themselves out of fires with real innovation. don’t write them off.
They are making news bullets from the idiots such as Cringely or capitalist bastards such as Carroll in the name of smudging the sun with mud. –: ))))
>>>On Sony buying Sun… makes sense. Sony would be able to sell the whole package to broadcasters: servers, workstations, equipment, storage and such. With the necessary change in broadcast equipment to support HDTV, it’ll be a huge possibility to Sun.
Sony already has an agreement with IBM for this sort of thing.
http://www-1.ibm.com/industries/media/casestudy/CASESTUDY_71983.htm…
>>>>mobile handsets and embedded devices completely submerge the PC as an end-user device.
The problem again is IBM —- IBM’s own J2ME is all integrated with WebSphere Everywhere and has a huge lead over SUN.
Maybe Sun should start doing software or hardware, maybe both for linux. It could be a good move.
By linux_baby (IP: —.echo-on.net) – Posted on 2003-02-24 00:29:27
I agree completely with the author. For those of you disagreeing, please answer a simple question:
How is Sun going to continue making money?
Umm…perhaps by selling Enterprise integration software, hardware, and expertise.
Perhaps by being able to do both the edge-space “Racks of 1U” systems along with high end data center servers, with solid integration at the platform level.
Solaris runs across their entire line, they’re committed to Solaris. What does IBM say to someone running an RS6000 or AS/400 when the clients point to their Linux ads? “What is your corporate committment to this platform again, exactly?”
The messages coming out of Sun are not laser beam precise, but they have a vast array of hardware, software, and expertise which makes it a good choice as a “Single Vendor” solution. On top of that they support and push the open standards making them a good fit in a heterogenous network.
Finally, Sun is one of the few major manufacturers that can put time, energy and money into a corporate Linux based desktop PC, and integrate and support it as a single system.
They’re cleaning up Gnome, they run OpenOffice. They can take a Linux distro, clean it up, make Gnome and OO work seemlessly together on it, back it with a large support organization and integrate both hardware a software. Dell can’t, RedHat can’t, and IBM is too distracted.
They have no bond to break with Redmond. They can care less if MS gets upset and changes their relationship with their other Windows business because they don’t have one.
And MS isn’t making more friends as it gasps for profits…so eyes are beginning to wander.
So, I think Sun is in pretty good shape, and it will be interesting to watch from the sidelines.
“Solaris for Intel, should any one be insane enough to want to run it, is FREE, for Chrissakes.”
Solaris is free for the SPARC platform only. They can call it a Free Lisence Program but it hasn’t been free for Intel since Solaris 8. In fact they charge $20 for a download distribution. Now $20 isn’t a lot of money in relative terms, but it certainly isn’t Free.
-Bob
Your comments are totally illogical.
First, SUN has been losing money for a couple of years now, with no end in sight.
Secondly, you claimed that IBM’s linux push hurts their RS6000/AS400 customers. Then you praised SUN’s launching their own linux distribution. (Comparing SUN’s “large” support organization to IBM’s “VERY VERY LARGE” organization is just silly.)
SUN’s position on the java community process is not that compatible to the open standards process.
>>>>They have no bond to break with Redmond. They can care less if MS gets upset and changes their relationship with their other Windows business because they don’t have one.
That’s really the problem with SUN — their obsessiveness with beating microsoft. SUN spent $2 billion on cobalt for no valid business reason other than to piss microsoft — with SUN’s linux revenue at slightly above 1 million dollars — IBM/HP/Dell gets BILLIONS of linux revenue. SUN spent $80 million on staroffice for no valid business reason other than to piss microsoft. SUN kept suing Microsoft on java matters for no valid business reasons (meanwhile IBM and BEA kept stealing java customers from SUN.)
>>>>Solaris runs across their entire line, they’re committed to Solaris.
What do you think IBM has been doing? IBM has been working on a MULTI-DECADE plan on switching all hardware and software to the 1 SINGLE platform. IBM doesn’t talk about it much (because their PR is on linux), but the real plan behind closed door is something like POWER8/9/10-based mainframe running on AIX (not linux).
http://news.com.com/2100-1001-919579.html