Within last week‘s Q&A session Amiga’s CTO already cleared up the strategic reasoning behind transferring the AmigaOS4 ownership to Hyperion. Within this week‘s Q&A Fleecy clear’s up some more misconceptions regarding Amiga’s influence on the AmigaOS4 development. Other questions relate to the AmigaDE, future hardware and software development for AmigaOS4.
There is currently alot of turmoil within the Amiga community. Currently the AmigaOne-XE boards are shipping in quantity and Hyperion already began advertising AmigaOS4.0, anticipating on the completetion of this enormous project.
IMO the timing for the mass trolling and FUD spreading by competing companies and their supporters currently is all but random. Issues known for months are being put in the spotlight, meanwhile positive and hopeful developments take place in the background.
Anyway it is clear that whatever rumour is being spread regarding Amiga Inc, the development of AmigaOS4 is not dependent on Amiga Inc per se. The enormous AmigaOS4 project under develepment by dozens of developers, under the leadership of Hyperion will be completed anyway.
I am not familiar with Amiga OS, etc, but how far are they from actually delivering a product? It seems all like great ideas and plans but when will it be completed?
A definite date isn’t yet given. AmigaOS4 is currently in such a state that some classic applications can already be used within the Workbench environment. Many of the PPC native modules which have been going through extensive beta-testing are currently being integrated into AmigaOS4.
AmigaOS is extremely modular and many higher-level pieces have already been finished for many months, that’s not to say that those modules haven’t advanced further during these months, anticipating on the integration into AmigaOS4.
I just have a small question, I ready the Q/A above and am still slightly confused about the AmigaOS. AmigaOS 4 will be backwards compatable with all the old amiga software, and will run on the AmgiaOne boards out now, however I don’t understand the whole AmigaDE. Does it have all the functionality of AmigaOS ? If not, whats missing?
AmigaDE will run under AmigaOS.
It’s TAO virtual assembler technique based.
> I don’t understand the whole AmigaDE. Does it have all
> the functionality of AmigaOS ? If not, whats missing?
The Amiga Digital Environment is a platform independent layer/OS. The AmigaDE is not compatible to AmigaOS, at least not more than a port of the emulator UAE can provide.
The AmigaDE can be the sole operating system on a device, but the technology can also run hosted on top of other operating systems including Symbian, Embedded Linux, PocketPC, etc. The AmigaDE has a port of MesaGL and some advanced 2D/scaling technologies. For a demonstration of some AmigaDE derived technologies take a look at the following TechTV demonstration:
http://www.aminet.net/pix/mpg/BillTechTV.mpg
An advanced productivity application like Photogenics was also demonstrated running within an AmigaDE environment on top of Windows and Linux a long time ago. The AmigaDE will also be integrated into future releases of AmigaOS, so if the AmigaDE becomes successful for smartphones, PDAs, Game Consoles, Digital TVs or other targeted devices, AmigaOS could benefit from any such content as well.
AmigaDE software can be written in a varierty of languages including C, C++ and Java.
>AmigaDE will run under AmigaOS.
Don’t make me laugh, Amiga Inc haven’t even started on porting it, they haven’t got the OS to port it to yet. Even then, it’ll be Tao that most likely does it, it is their code after all.
>Sorry but you really need to talk better.
Sorry Eugenia. Ok then:
>the development of AmigaOS4 is not dependent on Amiga Inc per >se.
Amiga Inc is a very badly run company who has stolen from paying customers. Hyperion are a great company and thank god the future of AmigaOS is in their hands
Amiga Inc have lied to the users, how can people ignore that? it is not the first time and they must not be allowed to keep getting away with it just because they own the Amiga IP.
Would you people defend a company what did the same sort of stuff if it was Apple,Microsoft? of course not but just because the name is “Amiga” everything is ok and lets sweep it up under the carpet and lie to people who want to know the truth.
That’s your opinion of course, but IMO you have to acknowledge that other people may have another point of view. Personally I would agree that they hyped their advancements, business deals and future outlook too much, just like many other companies prior to the tech-bubble burst.
Anyway that’s all PR. When a company claims that toothbrush A is the best and another company claims that toothbrush B is the best, at least one of them is wrong (if not both). You may view this as lying, but that’s how the world operates nowadays. If you dislike it, you may just as well sell your car, television set or indeed your toothbrush.
IMO the difficulties (i.e. product delays, lack of Amiga show presence, lack of advertising) the Amiga team had to face were non-intentional and the Amiga team deserves credit for staying focussed on keeping Amiga going and tring to realize their original goals even during extremely though times, instead of just giving up.
>and tring to realize their original goals even during >extremely though times, instead of just giving up.
Their original goals were to SCRAP Amiga OS if you remember mike. Hence MorphOS being created.
>That’s your opinion of course, but IMO you have to >acknowledge that other people may have another point of view.
You can’t deny that they have STOLEN money from people Mike!
> Their original goals were to SCRAP Amiga OS if you
> remember mike. Hence MorphOS being created.
MorphOS existed before the current incarnation of Amiga Inc. And they did not scrap AmigaOS, they worked with 3rd parties to realize AmigaOS3.9, however they stated that they would only start the development of AmigaOS4.0 if significant copies of AmigaOS3.9 would be sold (proving the existance of a significant userbase). It was clear that creating AmigaOS4 would be an enormous task.
The investors invested into Amiga Inc because of the AmigaDE and not because of AmigaOS. Luckily Amiga partnered with some good 3rd parties to make a new AmigaOS powered computer a reality.
The AmigaDE has been Amiga’s main focus and IMO that’s not strange at all, considering it has a much larger potential userbase than a platform specific AmigaOS.
> You can’t deny that they have STOLEN money from people
> Mike!
There’s no court verdict proving you right, so that’s still your opinion. Regarding the Amiga Club T-Shirts deliverance there have been some severe delays, but I know this is being taken care of. I am confident this will be resolved very soon.
>but I know this is being taken care of. I am confident this will be resolved very soon.
How do you know? The people who were stolen from don’t know, if this is the case is is so difficult for AInc to send an email to all concerned letting them know what is going on?
>MorphOS existed before the current incarnation of Amiga Inc.
As an add-on to the existing AmigaOS.
>And they did not scrap AmigaOS, they worked with 3rd parties to realize AmigaOS3.9,
That was Gateway’s doing.
>The investors invested into Amiga Inc because of the AmigaDE and not because of AmigaOS.
Why did they bother buying Amiga from Gateway then? They sould have left well alone and called their re-badging of Intent AminoDE or something similar. The community would not be split like it is now if Amiga had been sold to someone else, Genesi for example.
The community would not be split like it is now if Genesi didnt exsist.
>The community would not be split like it is now if Genesi didnt exsist.
And if Genesi had bought Amiga from Gateway, we would have had AOS4 2 years ago.
> How do you know? The people who were stolen from don’t
> know, if this is the case is is so difficult for AInc to
> send an email to all concerned letting them know what is
> going on?
They have made a public announcement regarding the T-Shirt delays a short while ago. Anyway I believe people will only start wearing their Club Amiga T-Shirt with pride when AmigaOS4 is already available. (Nearly) all of the people making the loudest noise currently never actually joined the Amiga Club and many of them actually support a competing company.
> That was Gateway’s doing.
Only AmigaOS 3.5 was developed when Amiga Inc was a part of Gateway.
> Why did they bother buying Amiga from Gateway then?
They wanted to create something entirely new in the spirit of the original Amiga computer. Computing which was simple enough for everyone to understand, computing that was innovating, easy to develop for, etc. The Amiga IP and its user/developer community was in their opinion very important to realize these goals.
> The community would not be split like it is now if Amiga
> had been sold to someone else, Genesi for example.
Amiga Inc paid 4.5 million dollars for the Amiga IP, a summ which no other Amiga related company would have been able to afford at the time. If they would not have bought the IP, a new Amiga computer would likely never have become a reality.
“And if Genesi had bought Amiga from Gateway, we would have had AOS4 2 years ago.”
Genesi did not exsist back then.
No i say the Os would not be anyware as MOS is still beta & that still just the A-BOX the real part of MOS the B-BOX is non exsistant.
>Amiga Inc paid 4.5 million dollars for the Amiga IP, a summ which no other Amiga related company would have been able to afford at the time. If they would not have bought the IP, a new Amiga computer would likely never have become a reality.
http://www.amiga-news.de/archiv02/020417_interview_bb_pt.shtml
@ mdma
Do you really think VIScorp under Bill Buck would have been able to actually acquire Amiga’s IP at the time Gateway owned it and turn it into a success:
Carl Sassenrath (highly respected AmigaOS kernel designer, ex-VIScorp employee)
“VIScorp never responded to my suggestions.”
“They were 110 days behind in paying me”
“VIScorp was again far behind in payments.”
http://www.cucug.org/amiga/aminews/1996/961116-sassenrath.html
>Do you really think VIScorp under Bill Buck would have been able to actually acquire Amiga’s IP at the time Gateway owned it and turn it into a success:
And just what exactly have Amino done? Zero Amiga products on the market.
> And just what exactly have Amino done? Zero Amiga
> products on the market.
With the AmigaDE being their main focus, GamePack availability in ordinary mainstream shops and soon more Microsoft distribution channels is a major milestone for them.
Instead of taking control/merger with a 3rd party (like Thendic did with bPlan), Amiga worked with 3rd parties to make the AmigaOne a reality. Both boards are very similar, although AmigaOne boards are already available with higher specifications.
The current Amiga Inc also made AmigaOS3.9 and AmigaOS XL products come to fruition by working together with 3rd parties. AmigaOS4 is an enormous project to modernize AmigaOS, not just the general appearance and some high level components, but all the way down to its fundamental technology and so it’s no wonder it has taken the large and very competent AmigaOS4 team this long to realize.
>With the AmigaDE being their main focus, GamePack availability in ordinary mainstream shops and soon more Microsoft distribution channels is a major milestone for them.
This isn’t Amiga is it Mike? Can I run AmigaOS software on it? No? Then it’s not Amiga.
>Instead of taking control/merger with a 3rd party (like Thendic did with bPlan), Amiga worked with 3rd parties to make the AmigaOne a reality.
If they really wanted OS4 to become a reality, then I could run it on my own choice of hardware. Not an overpriced Teron. Within days of it being released, you can guarantee there will be a crack to let OS4 run on Pegasos. This costs Hyperion money in lost licences.
It would be better for everyone for AInc to go bust, then Hyperion can do whatever they want with OS4.
Why do you sing AInc’s praises so much? It’s Hyperion and Eyetech you should be praising.
> This isn’t Amiga is it Mike? Can I run AmigaOS software
> on it? No? Then it’s not Amiga.
As I already stated, this is the technology Amiga’s investors invested into, an Amiga branded product. Without the AmigaDE the Amiga IP would most likely still be left unused with Gateway.
> If they really wanted OS4 to become a reality, then I
> could run it on my own choice of hardware.
Allowing a 3rd party to own the OS, just to protect the OS and its development and future proves that Amiga Inc cares about AmigaOS4.
> Within days of it being released, you can guarantee
> there will be a crack to let OS4 run on Pegasos.
Although both platforms are very similar, it will take more than a simple hack to make AmigaOS4 function properly with on the Pegasos. For the same reason we don’t see MorphOS running on the AmigaOne currently.
> This costs Hyperion money in lost licences.
Honestly I have no respect for anyone who would pirate AmigaOS4, considering the amount of time, money and effort spent on the project. Nomatter what kind of justification you believe would allow you to do so.
Amiga did announce and advertise the Pegasos to be an AmigaOS4 supported AmigaOne platform. However eventually this deal was cancelled. Amiga does want to see AmigaOS4 running with as much hardware as possible.
> It would be better for everyone for AInc to go bust,
> then Hyperion can do whatever they want with OS4.
Some people do seem to believe this and do everything they can to facilitate this. IMO you should just enjoy your Pegasos and let other people buy what they want to buy. IMO you shouldn’t worry so much for seeing other people fail.
>For the same reason we don’t see MorphOS running on the AmigaOne currently.
MorphOS does run on A1 with Openfirmware.
You avoided my question Mike
Why do you sing AInc’s praises so much? It’s Hyperion and Eyetech you should be praising.
Well?
> MorphOS does run on A1 with Openfirmware.
It runs on old Teron evaluation boards. These are significantly different from current AmigaOne motherboards. And if you claim they are not, then why don’t we see MorphOS running on the most current boards (allowing MorphOS users to use G4 processors today rather than in the future)? IMO for the same business reasons why the Pegasos will not be supported by AmigaOS4.
> Why do you sing AInc’s praises so much? It’s Hyperion
> and Eyetech you should be praising.
I am not praising them, IMO the management have made some serious blunders. Although IMO there have not been any bad intentions beforehand. I have defended Hyperion’s Frieden brothers in the past as well when they were attacked and ridiculed by MorphOS developers in the past. I respect many of Amiga’s and Hyperion’s current developers / engineers, I would defend them all when I can and think it’s justified, only you bring up Amiga Inc all of the time.
>I would defend them all when I can and think it’s justified, only you bring up Amiga Inc all of the time.
But noone can seriously defend AInc. Even MS are more trustworthy
Is the AmigaDE technology better than Java and .NET for creating portable applications?
NOTE: I realise you can still program C/C++, Java, etc and use the AmigaDE. I have read about the technology and it looks impressive.
>NOTE: I realise you can still program C/C++, Java, etc and use the AmigaDE. I have read about the technology and it looks impressive.
Just look here
http://withintent.biz/index2.php?Cat=1
AmigaDE is just Intent rebadged. If you seriously want to use something like that, cut out the middle man and save on licencing fees! 😉
“But noone can seriously defend AInc. Even MS are more trustworthy
”
Well if thats how you see things then there is no hope for ppl like you and i so glad that you will not be part of the Aone/Aos4 user base.
The more Genesi attract ppl like you the better.
>Well if thats how you see things then there is no hope for ppl like you and i so glad that you will not be part of the Aone/Aos4 user base.
But I will be buying OS4, then when someone patches it to work on Pegasos i’ll run run it on that. 🙂
It’s all rather sad, from Mike Bouma to Amithlon to Genesi, etc. Instead of working together to create something great, all we have is a bunch of nasty and greedy children fighting over the scraps of the Amiga market.
And I have to say that the Amiga Inc people look most guilty of being the greediest of the bunch. Since there are no reliable facts from anyone, this whole topic of “Amiga” is just a joke until there are real shipping products that bear some resemblance to a real Amiga computer.
It’s a sad story so far. Maybe there will be a happy ending, but it doesn’t look promising.
>all we have is a bunch of nasty and greedy children fighting over the scraps of the Amiga market.
Bill Gates would’ve done more for Amiga.
Amiga does want to see AmigaOS4 running with as much hardware as possible.
Really? That’s news to most of us.
If that were really the case, they wouldn’t have their current hardware licencing strategy. Their scheme has hardly led to hordes of hardware manufacturers, banging on their office doors in order to receive their blessing to serve as official porting targets.
I am just not sure, why you Mike have to spread such propaganda. I am away from Amiga for some 3 years, so I try to view situation objectively.
Why you talk about “competition”, spreading this or that? After all – bbrv posted some FACTS. Bolton Peck posted some FACTS. If it does not suit your needs, just don’t try to demoralize those ppl.
As for VisCorp issue – you surely know I am in Rebol camp, so Carl Sassenrath name is well known to me. I once wrote on ann.lu some bad comments about VisCorp. Then I received email by bbrv and we exchanged few of emails. I got more details about VisCorp explained to me, and you should know, that there could be some more complicated relationships in companies, but I will not go into any detail – everyone can investigate for him(her)self.
So what is actually bad about AInc. in my pov you may ask? Well – it is about energy, fresh one, which was brought to Amiga lands by Bill and Fleecy and their “promises”. But every marketing person will tell you you better care about how to turn the advantage into profit, rather then wasting it.
And honestly – AInc. damaged all possible confidence into the Amiga. It is not about tootpaste A or B, it is just and only about their claims, announcements, non-existant communication, etc. If someone tells “on schedule and rocking” while he knows very well, that all terms are unrealistic to full-fill, – now that’s a lie and nasty calculation – the one which eats another part of ppl’s belief into the platform. If you do so several times, you damage a lot – and Ainc. was all but succesfull in completly damaging their public face. Just go and re-read all AInc.’s announcements and executive updates from the past …
From the marketing pov, AInc. lacks all the things Genesi brought to the table. Genesi knows how to turn ppl’s attention, they are attending shows, giving free t-shirts, well priced boards, free boards to key developers or groups, they are simply focused. They seem to know how to do business and that’s a difference …
-pekr-
> He **DID NOT** delete your post. He mod it down. I took a
> look what he mod down, AND THEY WERE ALL WORTHY of
> moderation.
> Learn to talk in a calmer manner over here and READ our
> posting rules. This is not slashdot.
Eugenia, I think you fail to realise what the term “piss up” means, in Europe, this is a drinking party. The “Piss up/Brewery” is a common expression describing incompetance.
I paid 50$, and so what???
There was no dato on when they should send anything … what we actually paid for was the lifetime membership!!! … The people (who are members) who has anything against it, they didn’t read what they “bought”!!!
And about when AmigaOS 4.0 will arrive … I think Hyperion entertainment should take the time needed!
I look forward to use AmigaOS 4.0 :o)
And when the Amiga Anywhere Content Engine gets part of AmigaOS, that will not make me cry ;o)
> I paid 50$, and so what???
> There was no dato on when they should send anything
There most certainly was.
A “Discount” legally means “Time of purchase”, and none of the vendors will honor this, because they don’t trust Amiga for one reason or another.
If you do a little digging, the shirts were promised for a certain time period too, (however this is less serious than the Federal-level charges being sought in the class action suit)
If you don’t feel wronged, you have every right to ignore the loss, but it’s perfectly reasonable for those that were wronged and _do_ care about it to bring these charges.
@Petr Krenzelok
Why do you believe everything from the “mouth” of bbrv???
I wouldn’t trust Buck if I were You!
bbrv is the one making propaganda about Amiga Inc., no matter if it is the truth, or if it is a lie, it is still propaganda from another firm (Genesi)!!!
@Eurotrash
Wait and see till when AmigaOS 4.0 arrives!
It would be STUPID to start anything, before the product gets on the marked!
> Why do you believe everything from the “mouth” of bbrv???
All this controvercy has come from Amiga.
The CEOgate scandal was spawned by Amiga’s secret CEO handing out business cards. BBRV isn’t the only one to recieve them. This is the fault of an Amiga employee.
The Clubgate scandal was totally Amiga’s fault. The vendors decided they couldn’t honor the discount coupons. Amiga has to date done Nothing to correct this. This is the work of Amiga, not BBRV.
The ClassActiongate scandal isn’t a scandal at all, it’s Amiga’s customers demanding satisfaction.
BBRV had no controll over, and is not to blame for any of this. It’s just a convienient scapegoat for a company with serious problems, very serious.
> Wait and see till when AmigaOS 4.0 arrives!
Amiga have nothing to do with this. Haven’t you been listening when Amiga reassured us that even if they go bankrupt, AmigaOS4 will still be released by Hyperion?
> It would be STUPID to start anything, before the product gets on the marked!
No it wouldn’t, you’d actually be able to USE that $50 to buy AOS4 from Hyperion, rather than it just being lost for good.
Hyperion have already stated that they will _Not Honor_ the discount coupons, and that you’ll have to chase down your money from Amiga yourself. That’s what some are doing, and there’s others in line… Ex-employees, the state of Washington, Customers, the Landlord, the utility companies, etc. the list grows.
> Amiga have nothing to do with this. Haven’t you been
> listening when Amiga reassured us that even if they go
> bankrupt, AmigaOS4 will still be released by Hyperion?
Heck, don’t take my word for it, check the thread title.
“But I will be buying OS4, then when someone patches it to work on Pegasos i’ll run run it on that. :-)”
No you wont as you can not buy the Aone version by its self.
The PPC card version will not work on the Pegasos.
We all see your true intentions.
@Mike:
“Regarding the Amiga Club T-Shirts deliverance there have been some severe delays, but I know this is being taken care of. I am confident this will be resolved very soon.”
lol !
You got to be kidding ?!?
“Severe delays” in delivering… T-Shirts !
)
How can we trust you when we hear that ?
Leo.
@Leo
You got to be kidding ?!?
“Severe delays” in delivering… T-Shirts !
)
How can we trust you when we hear that ?
I can sketch a couple of scenarios:
1) Amiga Inc orders a couple of hundred t-shirts
Tshirt-printer is a bussiness man and understands with whom he is dealing with and asks for a downpayment or
if he is really smart full payment up front.
2) or the t-shirts are printed and when AmigaInc comes
to pick them up they can’t pay the bill so the shopowner
gets mad and says: “show me the money”
>The PPC card version will not work on the Pegasos.
>
>We all see your true intentions.
Hence the term ‘Patch’ you ignoramous. I am a coder by trade, what makes you think I couldn’t patch it myself? I was going to buy both boards, but I have now settled on just having a Pegasos II. Hyperion will get their money from me for OS4, and I’ll get it working on the Pegasos eventually.
people must know that amigaDE is a joke only running over m$windoz or
linux x86.
ainc wanted to make the users go to peecee
they never release the product for any os running on amiga(aos or
linux)
>they never release the product for any os running on amiga(aos or linux)
That’s because it’s not their code. It’s TAO’s.
There once was this great computer system, way ahead of its time, designed by a group of visionaries who fought hard to bring it to market. It brought together a great, prolific community which produced music, animations, art, and software. It had a thriving game market, with some big name games first on Amiga and smaller game houses that went on to be big names. All that creativity advanced the state-of-the-art in home computers by leaps and bounds.
We all know how it went wrong. And now… this. This is all that’s left? A bunch of squabbling children, egos and vitrol.
Wish they’d let the ol’ girl rest in peace. *sniff*
Wouldn’t it be good to first release AmigaOS 4.0 and then add Intent/AmigaDE to it? I’d rather see Amiga port (pay someone at Tao or 3rd party) it to PowerPC.
Amiga isn’t the only one using Tao’s Intent environment, check Tao’s website and partner listings. http://withintent.biz/
>Wouldn’t it be good to first release AmigaOS 4.0 and then add Intent/AmigaDE to it? I’d rather see Amiga port (pay someone at Tao or 3rd party) it to PowerPC.
What would be funny is if Genesi paid for Intent to be ported to MorphOS first. I can see Fleecy crying in his milk now! 😉
>>Wouldn’t it be good to first release AmigaOS 4.0 and then add Intent/AmigaDE to it? I’d rather see Amiga port (pay someone at Tao or 3rd party) it to PowerPC.
>What would be funny is if Genesi paid for Intent to be ported to MorphOS first. I can see Fleecy crying in his milk now! 😉
Why don’t You get it … Amiga Anywhere is not only intent … try to read the post from Fleecy Moss here http://amiga.org/modules/news/article.php?storyid=2114
No you wont as you can not buy the Aone version by its self.
I think that Vesalia lists a dongle upgrade kit for non-sanctioned Teron motherboards in their catalogue. If you can buy the dongle, you surely can buy the OS as well.
But where the hell does Fleecy clear up the ownership rumours?
If this isn’t enough: http://www.amiga.com/corporate/042903-mcewen.shtml
Then you can find Fleecys words somwhere on http://www.amigaworld.net
>Why don’t You get it … Amiga Anywhere is not only intent … try to read the post from Fleecy Moss here http://amiga.org/modules/news/article.php?storyid=2114
But the point is, that if MorphOS has Intent, it will run AmigaDE content “out of the box”. Hence the term Amiga Anywhere. Correct me if i’m wrong. 🙂
[Quote]But the point is, that if MorphOS has Intent, it will run AmigaDE content “out of the box”. Hence the term Amiga Anywhere. Correct me if i’m wrong. :-)[/Quote]
Nope … only if the MorphOS team would copy all the API parts (+everything else) of Amiga Anywhere … and right now there is only information about that to those who have signed an NDA!!!
So if MorphOS had intent, then it could run PLAIN intent content!!! Not Amiga Anywhere content!!!
I think it would almost be as if You would think that You could run Classic Amiga content on 68k MacOS
>Nope … only if the MorphOS team would copy all the API parts (+everything else) of Amiga Anywhere … and right now there is only information about that to those who have signed an NDA!!!
But when I buy an Amiga Anywhere game, the DE binaries come with it, otherwise it wouldn;t work on my PocketPC or whatever.
>I think it would almost be as if You would think that You could run Classic Amiga content on 68k MacOS
You will be able to when AROS is finished being ported across. (Well system friendly apps anyway)
@Henning Nielsen Lund:
And what about this:
http://www.ann.lu/detail.cgi?category=news&file=1051882432.msg
=> That’s this kind of issue we’d like to be cleared…
Everyone knows “AmigaDE/..” has been abandonned since about 2 years… And we saw nothing new from Amiga,Inc. since two years… (The AmigaOne being worked on by Eyetech, OS4 being worked on by Hyperion)
About the “T-Shirt issue”: don’t you think that if Amiga,Inc. had the money and really wanted to deliver it, it would have been delivered since MONTHS ???
I don’t understand WHY Fleecy (and BME) continue lying like this… while people are being fired… It’s a shame…
Leo.
Im amazed at the sheer volume of blatant trolling in here
not only is it calmer even in ANN and Amiga.org than here (!) ( probably because there are more people around to correct the silly little kids who must have their fun ) but it seemsthat some people cannot restrain themselves from making actionable commments ( like accusing Amiga Inc of stealing – in fact more than that stating it as if it were fact ).
Some time ago OSNEWs was a good place to come and read
non rabid Slashdot flameboy ( if it isn’t Linux its bad or
“Amiga products? I think Ill go revive my Atari ST” ) outside views on the Amiga.
Instead we have mdma the troll and Paul Gadd ( who I didn’t expect to see lowering himself to this level ) stirring the s**t like there is no tomorrow and then tittering behind the bikesheds about it on Amiga.org.
( http://amiga.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=8328&forum=1 )
Its pathetic. No wonder MorphOS and AmigaOS are viewed as
dead end products by the Real World.
Its like Ive just wandered into a kiddie IRC channel and they are titterring about how they have gone in and disrupted a channel for adult debate. Tee hee! ( rolls eyes )
Buy a Pegasos or an AmigaONE and buy a free pass into
trolldom and kiddydom. Great advert guys. Great work.
** well done you must be sooooo proud **
> But where the hell does Fleecy clear up the ownership rumours?
He doesn’t. It’s the one of the strangest headlines I’ve seen here. Has Mike stopped reading his own site?
And what “ownership rumours”? What the heck are you on about now, Mike? And why do you start with ABSOLUTELY IRRELEVANT AND OFFTOPIC trolling and LIES in the very first post of the thread, Mike?
The Teron PX (or “AmigaOne XE” as you refer to it) is not “shipping in quantity”. It’s the same sample volumes as always have been available when ordering directly from Mai or the fab, i.e. a couple of dozen a week.
And if you interpret the banner with an “AmigaOS 4” logo on Amiga.org that DaveP bought for Hyperion as a sign that AmigaOS 4.0 would be anywhere near being released, then you’re beyond help. There are positive, REAL, signs that the project is at least progressing, albeit slowly, so I don’t understand why you mention the amiga.org banner.
A piece of free advice, Mike: STFU until there’s something tangible or moderately interesting to report, and lay off the childish FUD and trolling. That would allow e.g. OSNews to regain some of the credibility they lost because of you.
> But where the hell does Fleecy clear up the ownership rumours?
He doesn’t.
Apparently you guys didn’t actually read it, or perhaps you misread the headline (as I originally did). AmigaOS4 ownership is clarified in question 5.
Apparently you guys didn’t actually read it, or perhaps you misread the headline (as I originally did). AmigaOS4 ownership is clarified in question 5.
He says that it’s owned by Hyperion now, and unless Amiga Inc. comes up with proper management and money it will probably stay there.
Is anyone actually working on AOS4 ?
And with working I mean really coding instead of talking about it.
Are there any developers left?
He says that it’s owned by Hyperion now…
🙂 Someone can read.
Is anyone actually working on AOS4 ?
Every now and then Ben Hermans (of Hyperion) makes some announcement on recent progress to amiga.org and other sites, and Mike echoes it here too I think. They release screenshots on occasion (which get excoriated as being ugly, despite the caveat that they are not indicative of the final look).
I can’t seem to find the latest announcement either at amiga.org or amigaworld.net, but I recollect there being some update in the last couple of weeks.
Are there any developers left?
People post to several boards claiming to be working on it, most notably the Frieden brothers, Ben Hermans of Hyperion Entertainment (don’t think he does any actually programming but I could be wrong) and on occasion others.
He once again mentions that “the ownership rests with Hyperion”, which everyone has known for a couple of years [?] by now, as well as the “strategic reasoning” behind it (Hyperion have repeatedly said all this themselves, in much clearer wordings), and there certainly have not been any “rumours” saying anything to the contrary.
Umm, I’ve been following the Amiga boards the last couple of weeks, and because of the recent CEO confusion, there has been discussion as to whether AmigaOS4 is actually safe with Hyperion, some even going so far as to insinuate that if Amiga, Inc. failed then Hyperion would not in fact own AmigaOS4. So, yes, there has been some confusion on this, which is why someone asked about it. This has not been helped by a competitor’s stating that he is in the process of acquiring the rights to AmigaOS, and that therefore Hyperion does not have the rights (“If we do obtain the rights to the classic AmigaOS one way or the other, we will even work with the OS4 development team.” see http://www.ann.lu/comments2.cgi?show=1051380286&category=news&numbe… ).
Of course, if you aren’t inclined to believe Fleecy on the CEO rumors, you likely aren’t inclined to believe Fleecy on the OS4 rumors. Especially since, as Fleecy himself points out repeatedly, he is not qualified to answer questions on the “business side” of things.
I wrote: This has not been helped by a competitor’s stating that he is in the process of acquiring the rights to AmigaOS,
I’m pretty sure I should have used “implying” instead of “stating”.
>( like accusing Amiga Inc of stealing – in fact more than that stating it as if it were fact ).
It’s true. Let Amiga Inc sue me if it isn’t. Oh, they can’t afford too, silly me! 😉
> And with working I mean really coding instead of talking
> about it.
Yes, there is a group of 40 developers on this project. The low-level groudwork was laid by the Frieden brothers of Hyperion.
Regarding clearing up rumours, you can gatehr that nomatter what is stated elsewhere AmigaOS4 will see the day of light and is not *dependent* on Amiga Inc’s financial well being. I have read at various forums (i.e. Amiga-News.de) rumours of AmigaOS4 cancellation spread by certain trolls. Another misconception regards rumours that Amiga Inc has no involvement in the AmigaOS4 project, again this is incorrect as Amiga Inc i.e. set up an agreement in advance regarding to what AmigaOS4 will be like.
Apparently you guys didn’t actually read it, or perhaps you misread the headline (as I originally did). AmigaOS4 ownership is clarified in question 5 [I think you meant 9?].
No, there’s no *clarification* about AmigaOS ownership. He once again mentions that “the ownership rests with Hyperion”, which everyone has known for a couple of years [?] by now, as well as the “strategic reasoning” behind it (Hyperion have repeatedly said all this themselves, in much clearer wordings), and there certainly have not been any “rumours” saying anything to the contrary.
No news. Misleading article and headline. Conspiracy theories about organized “rumours”, “misconceptions”, “trolling” and “FUD”. Bouma in action.
Move on, nothing to see here.
Since there has apparently been a mistake, this on-topic, non-abusive post of mine was found among the “moderated down” comments, so here it is again. Please feel free to delete the duplicate in “moderated down”.
Jack Perry:
[j.p. has seen] discussion as to whether AmigaOS4 is actually safe with Hyperion, some even going so far as to insinuate that if Amiga, Inc. failed then Hyperion would not in fact own AmigaOS4. So, yes, there has been some confusion on this, which is why someone asked about it.
If there indeed has been any confusion, neither the question nor fleecy’s answer addressed this.
Q: How does Amiga Inc. influence and control the development path of AmigaOS […] For example, Hyperion may add/remove/change features that would be counterproductive to your goals.
A: […] ownership of the AmigaOS rests with Hyperion at the moment […] It was done as a protective measure to ensure that if anything happened to Amiga Inc then the community wouldn’t have to put up with another x years of uncertainty.
I.e. nothing new, and not even commenting on who could acquire the AmigaOS IP when/if AInc goes under. So much for “clearing up” any imagined or real “rumours”.
As far as we all know (i.e. according to what Hyperion have said), AInc has a buy-back option for AmigaOS 4. I would imagine that Hyperion has seen to that this option is not transferrable, should AInc disappear, but if they haven’t then one possibility would be that this option would be included in the sales of AInc’s bankrupcy assets. But that’s speculation, and merely saying that there won’t be “x years of speculation” doesn’t clear up anything of that.
If there indeed has been any confusion, neither the question nor fleecy’s answer addressed this.
Apparently you did not read this: The transfer of AmigaOS4 to Hyperion was done for a number of strategic reasons, one being to protect the AmigaOS for the community and prevent it being left in limbo if anything should happen to the parent company as was witnessed after Commodore and Escom went bankrupt.
Hyperion owns it. The whole reason Hyperion owns it, is so that if Amiga Inc. goes belly-up, it is clear who owns the OS. So, if Amiga Inc. goes belly-up, Hyperion has the rights, and keeps the rights.
That is an answer, your naysaying notwithstanding. And you’re right: it’s nothing new although some people have in fact suggested otherwise. See my earlier post where Bill Buck implies the OS4 developers (ie Hyperion) do not have the rights to OS4. He is hardly alone.
Apparently you did not read this: …
No, I didn’t. My mistake, sorry. I thought we were discussing this week’s marketing effort, since that’s what the “news” item (and thus its headline) supposedly was all about. Bouma insists on posting a new announcement about this weekly event every week, so I naturally assumed that last week’s “content” had been covered already.
But what fleecy said last week is exactly the same as today.
“protect the AmigaOS for the community and prevent it being left in limbo” can mean anything, it doesn’t necessarily have anything to do with who would own it or license it or how that would happen in practice. Compared to what Hyperion have already said, it’s just as vague and meaningless as the other answers and doesn’t “clear up” squat, and doesn’t contradict anything Buck has said (unless one starts trying to interpret what he implies instead of just reading what he says, and I guess the former is what some have done when they think of “rumours” and “misconceptions”).
Naysaying? Huh?
Mike wrote:
Within last week’s Q&A session Amiga’s CTO already cleared up the strategic reasoning behind transferring the AmigaOS4 ownership to Hyperion. (emphasis mine)
It really couldn’t be more simply stated: last week’s Q&A clears up the ownership…
Within this week’s Q&A Fleecy clear’s up some more misconceptions regarding Amiga’s influence on the AmigaOS4 development.
…and this week’s Q&A talks about Amiga’s influence on development.
The questions asked, were real questions asked by real members of the Amiga community, not by Mike.
Now, as for confusion on who owns AmigaOS4, see comment 84 on this page:
http://www.ann.lu/comments2.cgi?view=1051380286&category=news&start…
comment 109 on this page:
http://www.ann.lu/comments2.cgi?view=1051380286&category=news&start…
Also comment 97 on the first page, esp. Bill Buck’s remark: ” The whole AmigaDE lawsuit was just a means to shut Bill McEwen up and force Amiga Inc. into a settlement that might include us obtaining the rights to the Amiga trademarks and the classic OS.”
If you don’t find that a sufficiently strong statement, we have nothing further to discuss. It’s clear enough to me what he means.
Right after a MorphOS or Genesi story is posted, Mike Bouma posts
another story about Amiga which does not actually talk about anything?
If it were a few people posting it, that would be one thing, but it’s
the same exact guy every time.
@ Nate
This news item was IMO important to clarify the following setence regarding AmigaOS4 within a previous news submission. Why shouldn’t this be addressed?
“Where does this situation leave the upcoming AmigaOS 4.0 remains to be seen.”
@Mike
But how is this a news item? Is this forum for a discussion of OS’s
or just some PR platform?
I wish I could get such pomp and circumstance when people ask me a
question, but Fleecy is not even involved in AmigaOS 4’s development,
by his own admission.
Save this kind of celebrity for real news… like AmigaOS 4 actually
RUNNING!
And no, modules on an A4000 68k don’t count. Neither does a
standalone kernel.
@ Nate
Because it clarifies that people shouldn’t be worried to much regarding all the FUD that is being spread.
And yes Fleecy is involved and he and everyone who keeps him up-to-date are fully qualified to answer AmigaOS4 questions.
Why not just skip the Amiga news you don’t like and read MorphOS news instead? There are people who thanked me for clearing up these issues. You just have to accept that you and other MorphOS users don’t decide what is news and what is not.