Microsoft will disclose more details about the next “big” version of Windows and show off prototypes of smart. Also, Gates cites Microsoft breakthroughs at eWeek. Check out pictures of the Athens PC.
Longhorn, New PCs on Tap for WinHEC
About The Author
Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
Follow me on Twitter @EugeniaLoli
wonder where they got this idea from…
No, it doesn’t look like a mac, at all. It is just a modern PC design.
Personally, I don’t like its looks. It looks weird.
It’s like concept cars… they will show you the looks but never deliver the hardware. I’d love if computers went this style (simplicity) but there’s a huge industry focused on the non-simplistic computer architecture.
My first impression, as much as I hate to say it, was “oh my god, they’ve made a mac-a-like”, however once you look at it in more detail its actually more of a sophisticated pc design. Ok the translucent border of the monitor is very mac-ish, but thats obviously just what tehy see the market wanting.
Personally, a pc to me is an excuse to build/re-build etc, but the standard home market would love this sort of sleek, elegant design.
Longhorn looks like more bells and whistles without any new substance…and the new MS hardware has very obvious bells and whistles while still doing the same basic tasks. I’m still waiting to see the real “innovation” from Microsoft, although I’m not holding my breath since they haven’t came up with a real new innovative product by themselves ever. Most of what they have has been bought from other companies or borrowed from other software makers…MAC, UNIX, XEROX PARC, IBM, etc. When it comes to innovation, I look to the independent application builders, not Microsoft. The OS really needs to start to be relegated to the backburner, and the app builders should be the main “movers and shakers” in this industry. As MAC and Linux continue to make inroads we’ll see these UNIX-clone OS’s do this. This could lead to the OS being an “afterthought” and the main focus will be the apps where the real work gets done. This incesent focusing on the OS is getting us no where.
I see this GUI hype as instinctively damaging to Microsoft. They’re already dominating the desktop market, so what’s the point in investing all this R&D into see-through windows? They need to make a decent server OS if they want true world domination.
I don’t think so. They just following the evolution. It’s normal.
>They need to make a decent server OS if they want true world domination.
They aim just that with Windows Server 2003.
There is a big argument on another *cough* /. *cough* site about whether this machine will be patented and the law used to prevent reverse engineering and alternative OS’ being used on it.
Frankly I don’t think this matters. It looks great. People who will buy it are the people who bought iMacs and Cubes… because it looks good, and with hardware and software developed side-by-side will probably be extremely reliable.
Plug it in. Use it. If you don’t like that build your own, install your own, and be satisfied in your l33tn355 …..
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=9334
From the link above:
“NOT CONTENT with just borrowing software ideas and then buying a 20% stake in the company to get rid of outstanding lawsuits, Microsoft has decided that Apple’s basic business plan is nice enough to nick too. They’ve ganged up with HP to start turning PCs into Apple clones.”
– Mark
Personally, I don’t like its looks. It looks weird.
I agree and I don’t think I will want that webcam with the monitor by default.
I think that M$ will want to make in the future closed and proprietary PC, like Xbox, with Palladium and all DRM methods.
The software market is decaying and sell hardware tied to your operating system is a logical (and “smart”) tactic.
In the near future we will have to choose between:
a) MS Windows with MS PC
b) MacOS X with Apple hardware
c) Linux with chinese hardware
Xbox is only a first test of market. Until now people cannot run other operating systems on Xbox without some illegal modchip.
It is a dangerous thing to let a company that has a Monopoly in Software take steps to controlling hardware.
This is what the Xbox was a dry run for.
Who wants to bet that unlike today’s pcs you won’t be able
to run Linux on these boxes ? At least not without a lot
of hassle and breaking the DMCA.
Palladium,Eula, DMCA,Trustworthy Computing,Biometrics,MS architecture hardware, Longhorn and Server tie in.
Looks like MS has all its rubber duckies in a row.
Bill can finally lean back, and enjoy a nice long soak in
the tub without having to worry about jetting off to
some foreign country threatening to use Linux.
I don’t think MS is controlling hardware with this PC, you are overreacting. MS is in the hardware business as well in software since 1983. They never dictated hardware, but they do offer ideas, prototypes, R&D and some OEM deals.
A lot of industry pundits see ‘Athens’ as a way to Microsoft helping revive the PC industry borrowing/copying/stealing/whatever Apple style.
OTOH Apple’s market share is still tiny, and is even diminishing (looks like nobody in Cupertino is worried about this, BTW, selling music and stuff is entertaining them).
“The OS really needs to start to be relegated to the backburner, and the app builders should be the main “movers and shakers” in this industry. As MAC and Linux continue to make inroads we’ll see these UNIX-clone OS’s do this. This could lead to the OS being an “afterthought” and the main focus will be the apps where the real work gets done. This incesent focusing on the OS is getting us no where.”
Except I would add, this whole distinction between different pieces — hardware, OS, apps — is not meaningful to ordinary people. They just want a machine that performs the functions, out of the box.
Xbox is only a first test of market. Until now people cannot run other operating systems on Xbox without some illegal modchip.
Hmmm… wrong.
http://www.xboxhacker.net/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=12&t=10520
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Hmmm… wrong.
http://www.xboxhacker.net/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=12&t=10…
—————————————-
But it is not a definitive solution… I think some day someone will break Xbox’s protection but this type of proprietary hardware will be more common in the future.
See
http://www.eweek.com/print_article/0,3668,a=41223,00.asp
MS is in hardware market for a long time but until Xbox they sold only mouses, keyboards and simple hardware.
Linux and opensource will comoditize (is it right ?) general-purpose software. The only way to M$ is to sell a “complete solution” (like Apple says).
The history is repeating …
eugenia said
“I don’t think MS is controlling hardware with this PC, you are overreacting. MS is in the hardware business as well in software since 1983. They never dictated hardware, but they do offer ideas, prototypes, R&D and some OEM deals.”
Well the influence they exert now over hardware now may not add up to Control but it is something they are moving
towards. If through being heavily promoted as “The”
Microsoft Computer it becomes another defacto standard
it will exert a lot of pressure if not outright control on the commodity hardware market.
As in software, I feel true Open Standards are preferable
to defacto standards for Hardware.
Oh sure, there will be upsides to tighter integration between the software and the hardware ala Apple. It is
the downsides I am worried about given MS past record.
If it was not for the clean room reverse engineering of the BIOS and the wide spread cloning of IBM Open hardware architecture MS would not have been able to do it’s
supposed role in computers becomg pervasive.Apple refused to allow similar moves and doomed itself to a smaller place than it wanted.
Of course now that MS already has a software Monopoly in an environment with they can safely use it to leverage the architecture to a more controlled, less open state of affairs.
I just hope that the Open Source horse has gotten
far enought out of the Barn that it won’t matter that
Bill is trying to slam the Door shut.
Besides I find it a bitter irony in Microsoft
using the name Athens, which as the birthplace of Democracy should stand for Openess and Freedom and not
for what I fear will turn out to be the opposite.
What Eugenia, these don’t look like Mac??? Jesus XT on a bicycle!, of course they do, that’s the very first thing that jumps to mind when you see them. If this is just “modern pc design”, then let’s just give Apple credit for inventing the modern design standard
… and I always thought KDE is slow 😉
Nice theme, but no big internal system change like eg. nt4/w98 to w2k
Only some add-on programs added. But everyone uses irfanview or acdsee, why I need a replacement from microsoft?
Oh, and they will add tcpa, drm, paladium … too *arrrgh*
The keyboard looks like it would be nothing short of painful to type on.
Who else has the money to innovate hardware (and tries to inovate) other than the big companies like microsft and apple? (both monopolies) You don’t see dell trying to innovate. They make systems, why shouldn’t they? Hp wouldn’t do this on their own. Microsoft can handle the bill for all these R&D expenses.
I like the wireles desktop design they have. It’s not something you couldn’t do with your current pc, but it looks nicer.
btw you linux guys are paranoid…
very paranoid
Ever since my first experience on linux with a Trident video card on a 486/66 back in ’96. I was eventually able to get X working at 320×240 on a card that could easily do 1280×1024 after only a few weeks of learning Linux and reading documentation. It turns out there were no drivers for that card or most cards because at that time developers had a hard time getting documentation to even write the 2D drivers. Then until RedHat’s donation to the DRI project we were left out of the 3D world except for 3dfx and glide / mesa.
Microsoft at that time was screwing over their competition but ignoring Linux because GNU software was not percieved as a threat. Today we are Microsoft’s competition. And you better believe we are paranoid. Extremely paranoid.
Right now most of the hardware designed for a PC has drivers and some support under Linux. Even winmodems. But with the right legislation and the right business deals between Microsoft and certain hardware manufacturers that could change. MS has done it before and I’d bet they’d jump at the chance to do it again, even if it will mean another 6 months in court with the DoJ in 2010, they’ll screw over any competition they can because the worst thing that can happen is a slap on the wrist.
It should be obvious by now that capitalists do not play fair. They play by the rules, but those rules can often be bought just like anything else. Capitalism is about making money. The fastest way to make money is to get a monopoly, not to play fair and create a stable thriving marketplace. So capitalists do whatever is in their power to get that monopoly and squeeze out their competition any way they can with price wars, proprietary hardware and now legislation that makes it illegal to circumvent your own hardware because it has been encrypted by Microsoft.
So let me get this straight. You’re not paranoid? Or are you not paranoid because you are satisfied with your Microsoft OS? Then let me ask you this. How would you feel if the only software you could buy for that OS was Microsoft software? I think that is the choice they are attempting to give me, and it has me a little worried.
All this stuff has been around in one form or another for a long time. All of this stuff has been possible for a very long time. Why isn’t it commonplace yet? The reason is the very same people who are now claiming to be bringing these “innovations” to us. They are only now seeing that they have to CHANGE things (really change, not just rearrange) in order to continue to get people to send them money.
Also, why did they focus on the software aspect moreso than the hardware? The hardware is what I am interested in (advancing the state of commodity computer hardware), especially since I am not interested in software from Microsoft. The hardware sounds interesting but they spent too little time discussing it. They just pointed to things, gave a rough explanation and went on to how much better your working life will be with this overall system.
well , well , well ,
http://www.tomshardware.com/business/20030506/WinHEC-04.html
Its a ” HP ” computer with microsoft software on it, its not a ” Microsoft ” computer.
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Its a ” HP ” computer with microsoft software on it, its not a ” Microsoft ” computer.
———————-
No, it is a M$ computer whose hardware is made by HP. But is still a M$ “XPerience” … 🙂
Xbox’s main chipsets are made by Nvidia but it is still a M$ console, nto a Nvidia-console.
Would we seriously be getting this level of commentary if the exact same computer just happened to be released as a Linux only platform? No, I think not. Is it just me, or could MS bring peace and prosperity to all, and yet at least one person on this forum would be moved to shout out “Yeah, but it’s not Linux”. Hell, it’s getting boring.
Does it look like a Mac, well “Duh!”. Does your Ford look like a Toyota? Does your kitchen knife resemble every other kitchen knife on the market? Is there some insane reason that because Apple came up with the dumbass translucent coloured plastic crap that they should be the sole company ever, in the history of mankind, to be allowed to use it?
For crying out loud. People support free software, which in the main clones commercial product, and when a company has the temerity to imitate an opponent’s hardware it’s somehow “wrong”. Hypocrytical much?
Note1: I know the inquirer isn’t the definitive source of all knowledge yet the are correct with the following statement.
quote from The Inquirer:
The machine on show is an Apple look-alike and an HP exec has the gall to say that, “Apple is on a similar track in that they’re designing with the end-user in mind.” As far as everyone else in the industry is concerned, Apple actually designed and built that track many, many years ago.
Bring on the Mac Clones
NOTE2: I haven’t anything intelligent to add.
MS has been behind PC standards for quite some time. Nothing new here, move along. As for the HP keyboard, I think I will stick to my MS Ergonomic keyboard (-:
Ironic but yes, MS is capable of making some decent products. Pity about their software.
Hi All,
I don’t know how this will work, but if this Athens PC goes for a default set of hardware the other hardware vendors will do their own thing.
Since the Athens PC is being developed by HP. How does this compare to the Gateway all-in-one solution? What does Dell think of this? Will the smaller white-box manufacturers get on board?
If Microsoft/HP goes with Intel, what will happen to AMD, Transmeta, and Via.
If Microsoft/HP goes with nVidia graphics, what will happen to ATI and Matrox.
If Microsoft/HP goes with nVidia sound, what will happen to Creative Labs, Cirrus Logic.
Unlike the Apple Market, the PC market is far too open to be regulated. AFAIK even the gateway all-in-one solution hasn’t sold well compared to the e/iMac.
If Microsoft/HP were to do this, I would rather see an open industry body (multiple companies) look after this rather than 2 companies doing it alone.
“They never dictated hardware”
> above is is an understatement …. see Intel, Hp, Compaq, etc.
“but they do offer ideas, prototypes, R&D and some OEM deals.”
> I wouldn’t want to count all the small software companies MS destroyed only because their product was superior to what Bill Gates and Co. had to offer. It seems to be the American business philosophy: “If sombody is better than you than take the following steps:” A)take over that business. B) Technology transfer C) Close that that damn thing down.
BTW – I experienced it myself in Europe.
I’ll give you $20 when Microsoft bring peace and prosperity to all. Hell I’ll give you $20 when Microsoft releases their source code under the GPL or fixes all their bugs or makes a secure operating system for once.
There are a great many things Microsoft will never do and that is probably why we dislike them.
>>Microsoft releases their source code under the GPL or fixes all their bugs or makes a secure operating system for once<<
I doubt they’ll ever release their code under the GPL, but if they have complete control over what machine their software runs on we could probably see a more secure, stable Windows environment. Not saying it will happen, but if they control all the variables it’s easier to make their software work better. Just as Mac software runs so well because they know all the combinations of programs and hardware the stuff will be running on, this could help Windows. Maybe that Lindows guy will do his usual copying of Microsoft’s latest thing and make a PC that will only run Lindows, no other OS.
“…or makes a secure operating system for once.”
Windows 2003 is secure out of the box. If you’re suggesting that someone might find an exploit at some point, you’re right they likely will. However, if you’re going to ride MS for releasing an OS with security problems then you need to ride Linux, MacOS and UNIX for releasing insecure OSes. They all have exploits of one form or another and they have at least one exploit that will let you gain admin priviledges. Oh, I’m sorry, you’re one of those annoying fcuktards who keep repeating the same tired line of crap over and over like a broken record player.
Eugenia,
You are positively right, it does not look like an iMac. But the marketing intent is exactly the same: to integrate the hardware and the OS to such an extent that one cannot work without the other.
In this sense Microsoft is just copying Apple, as it has done a few times in the past (quite successfully, BTW).
Ana O´Neemus
Technical Writer
The Garfield Group
PS: read our latest report ¨The reality of Linux on the desktop¨ (for the corporate environment)
More bloat, more spyware, and as always more money
According to Bill Gates, interoperability means that different kind of devices functioning under Windows are able to communicate with each other.
I always thought it meant that you could access filesystems created on other platforms, for instance, accessing an ext2 partition from NetBSD or Windows XP. Am I wrong or is this another example of double language (forked tongue) used by Microsoft representatives ?
>Windows 2003 is secure out of the box
Based on what? the ads? the Microsoft manager who sold you this crippeld software? because its 2 weeks out and nobody reported any holes or exploits?
OpenBSD is secure based on field work not on ads…
I have to disagree with you. When I first look at the picture, “Mac” didn’t come to mind (otherwise my very anti-Mac PC would look like one too :-). However, I would have to agree with Eugenia. But not only is it ugly, it doesn’t look as functional as a normal new PC would. More stylish maybe.
But “style” isn’t what I’m looking for in a PC. For example, in that picture, I don’t see any optical drives. If it is on top the base unit, like the cube, it would be total inconvient (or maybe I’m just not used to it…) and I would mind if I had to use an external drive.
Besides, I don’t think this would be Microsoft would control the PC now, with Palladium and the likes. While they may entrench themselves more with hardware makers, I doubt Microsoft would try to control the very thing that cause it to be a monopoly in the first place. All they need is someone to remind them about what happen to IBM.
If the colors were all black people would have said cool.
Although they probably would have said, “is this an IBM”
Also don’t worry about the hardware there will always be different solutions.
It is like the Centrino branding stuff, you can still use the Pentium-M with a different chipset that may turn out better than Intel’s Centrino.
Now compare that with this computer. The only thing I find special is the stuff mounted to monitor, everything else has been done before.
GIVE ME A BREAK!
If this does not look like Apple design than this is the last visit to this forum for me, sorry Eugenia.
you lost a reader today, not that you care probably.
Bye bye, have a good time. If you can’t accept opinions of others, what’s the use of coming here – or any forum for all that matters.
bye bye, don’t make yourself look like a fool too, this was not for you.
I chose Linux because of the license. GPL is Freedom. Forever. So what if I have to edit config files by hand? I enjoy it. At least I’m not an illiterate Windows fanboy that pirated all his software or had his dad buy it
Would you give up your Freedom to use something, that Free software can also do?
Besides, Free software tends to cost much less, heh
GIVE ME A BREAK!
If this does not look like Apple design than this is the last visit to this forum for me, sorry Eugenia.
When the iMac went LCD and other LCD-based Macs came out, various PC makers (Gateway, HP, IBM) had already been selling LCD-based computers that don’t look much different from this one for a while. The biggest difference between an iMac and an LCD-based PC from a major PC OEM (other than the obvious differences between all Macs and x86 PCs) is that Apple put the computer in the base, whereas most PC OEMs were putting the computer behind the screen, or in a seperate box.
The only things that bring Mac to mind here are the aspect ratio of the monitor (which is only really obvious in the front-on image) and the semi-translucent colour scheme. Personally, I don’t like the colour scheme (or the web-cam and phone), I’m ambivalent about the knob-device on the keyboard that’s supposed to make it possible to use a computer one-handed (maybe because I don’t spend most of my time on the computer masturbating, or maybe just because I have two hands), but I’d really like a good 16:9 LCD monitor for my current computer.
My only real thought when I saw the pictures (especially with the desktop showing on the screen) was ‘where are the monitor cables (power and video)?’, but then I remembered it’s just a bunch of images to show some non-existant computer off, and was probably generated almost entirely in photoshop anyway.
After looking at the pictures and having a look at the video at CNET, the Longhorn sidebar doesn’t look so stupid anymore. It seems the trend for LCD in the future will be the 16:9 not just for the Mac but for all sorts of computer monitors.
because Microsoft has spoken..
you’re all a bunch of lemmings.
“of smart.”
of smart WHAT?
There will be a massive split in the x86 community if this comes to pass. For the many unassuming and blissfully unaware simpletons out there, these next few years leading up to Longhorn are a defining moment where free computing is concerned.
I don’t know how many shortsighted m$ supporters are out there. But closing down the x86 market is not a good thing. Intel with their EFI bios is one way of dictating to AMD where we should go for the next decade. M$ with TCPA/Palladium enabled h/w and Longhorn, is a more blatant statement of the end of free computing. Spyware, spyware and more spyware.
What you people must understand, is that m$ are gearing towards 64bit computing, but with the hidden premise of landing this palladium and h/w inflexible future onto us too. We are being sweet talked into this innovation savvy future, where m$ makes it all possible. But what your really not being told is how much you are sacrificing in the name of progress. OR at least m$ labelled progress.
Is it just me or are we all headed for a waterfall come 2005/6?
As far as hardware is concerned, MS has been dictating the hardware for PocketPC’s for several years now. I can’t see why they wouldn’t try to do the same thing with desktops…just a matter of time really.
Funny thing is it’s probably not too_bad_an_idea. Keep the spec tight, tune the OS specifically to the environment and punch them out by the thousands which brings the price down. As long as it’s able to run Linux as well I’d buy one in a heartbeat. It would allow us to lose a lot of the legacy rubbish thats been sitting in all of our OS’s for way too long. I’d imagine a specifically modified distro would fly on a consistent platform….dare to dream
As for MS making it so it can ONLY run Windows, I think the DOJ might have something to say about that…