SuSE Linux plans to start shipping its Linux-based Standard Server 8 software worldwide in September. Beta version will be available next week.
SuSE Linux: Standard Server 8 to Ship in September
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Eugenia Loli
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Hopefully Suse decides to work on their upgradeability. Otherwise Suse won’t be the first choice of administrators in the future…
I don’t get who purchases this for $500 dollars. What incentive does it have over say a Slackware, or Debian, Or hell even their cheapest version that a competent SysAdmin couldn’t build up?
It is scary what Linux seems to be going towards. I was browsing Red Hats site the other day and came across the same thing. Here is the biggest and most important Linux company/vendor and I couldn’t even find a free version to download from them anymore. And their Advanced Server is something like $1400! And the cheaper one is $300. Even their “Personal” eddition is $50.
I understand the “Value” associated with this. For that money, you are getting Tons of stuff included and with the AS stuff, support. But my god. For this price, I am having a hard time why anyone goes to Linux in the first place. MS Server 2003 then becomes viable. Is WAY more advanced in setup and is the standard. The momentum behind Linux that got it this big to begin with was because it was free! And able to replace NT. Now, the economy has forced pricing for the Product, not just support.
And why, like I said, if interested in using Linux as a solution in the first place, pay those prices when there are SO many other choices to turn to? I could take Slackware ($40) with some time, and do probably 90% of what the Redhat Advanced Server could do? Including the kernel patches etc. And then have the client pay ME for support and upgrading.
At this rate, MS wins the war with just a few adjustments.
Novell gives Small Business Server for FREE now for upto 5 clients! Just imaging if Microsoft does the same for their SBS. Why in the hell would I then still push linux on those cash strapped small businesses? Especially with the ‘hobbiest’ ones in trouble (Slack/Debian). I’d have to start pitching RH or Suse? And Pay those prices? Forget. Game, set, Match if MS notices what Novell has done.
< I don’t get who purchases this for $500 dollars. What incentive does it have over say a Slackware, or Debian, Or hell even their cheapest version that a competent SysAdmin couldn’t build up? >
You get real support, not a mailing list unlike Slack and Debian. $500.00 is a good deal considering Microsoft charges per user, SuSE charges per copy.
< It is scary what Linux seems to be going towards. I was browsing Red Hats site the other day and came across the same thing. Here is the biggest and most important Linux company/vendor and I couldn’t even find a free version to download from them anymore. And their Advanced Server is something like $1400! And the cheaper one is $300. Even their “Personal” eddition is $50. >
The free version is still available from RH’s website, SuSE offers installation through FTP, they dont have any ISO’s but you can get them on the web.
< I understand the “Value” associated with this. For that money, you are getting Tons of stuff included and with the AS stuff, support. But my god. For this price, I am having a hard time why anyone goes to Linux in the first place. MS Server 2003 then becomes viable. Is WAY more advanced in setup and is the standard. The momentum behind Linux that got it this big to begin with was because it was free! And able to replace NT. Now, the economy has forced pricing for the Product, not just support. >
Actually the market Standard Server is going to, UNIX is the standard, that is what SuSE and Red Hat are trying to infiltrate, GNU zealots are the only ones that seem to be at war with Windows and MS. MS Server 2003 has a lot more minuses than pluses to it. During my evaluation of Win Server 2003, while probably the best server OS MS has produced in awhile, it still has many problems and in this case i myself find Linux to be a much better value.
< And why, like I said, if interested in using Linux as a solution in the first place, pay those prices when there are SO many other choices to turn to? I could take Slackware ($40) with some time, and do probably 90% of what the Redhat Advanced Server could do? Including the kernel patches etc. And then have the client pay ME for support and upgrading. >
Sounds like a plan, start your own business.
< At this rate, MS wins the war with just a few adjustments.
Novell gives Small Business Server for FREE now for upto 5 clients! Just imaging if Microsoft does the same for their SBS. Why in the hell would I then still push linux on those cash strapped small businesses? Especially with the ‘hobbiest’ ones in trouble (Slack/Debian). I’d have to start pitching RH or Suse? And Pay those prices? Forget. Game, set, Match if MS notices what Novell has done. >
There is no war, except for in the minds of a few as i stated before. MS wins the business because of their monopolistic practices, nothing more, nothing less, as DOJ starts to take more and more notice as we have seen in the past few weeks, MS will start getting cut off at the knees. With Novells offering, while it seems like it is a good deal, it isnt. You get no support, no upgrades or patches without a subscription fee, With RH and SuSE, you get excellent support and free upgrades.
This is what sucks about the free software groupies. Everyone wants everything for free. Free was originally intended to point to the GPL, that the software was open source. Now people use it as part pf an argument: “You windows Lusers *pay* for your OS! You are a bunch of Lamers!” Most Linux/*BSD users contribute nothing back in the way of coding, and hardly anyone actually pays for something that they can have for free. I say we need to stop this – support your distro/platform of choice – PAY for the RPM installed OSes/Donate to the others. Either that, or we’re going to wake up one day and all the major distros will be gone, finished develloping, and there wil be a handfull of people lamenting the fall of yet another great OS. And don’t even try to feed me the “Yeah, so the distros will be gone, but you can’t kill linux” BS either. Money runs the machine, pure and simple.<BR><BR>
It’s simple – take $20 or $100 buck out of your stingy wallets and mail it to your distrobution of choice.<BR><BR>
That being said, I think SuSE 8.* is a piece of $h|t.
Good points Robert. And well articulated without flaming or being edgy. Forums need more like you.
You Floyd on the other hand…
First get a clue. The GPL was never intended to become a bases for a “war” with MS as SO many Linux users prescribe too. It was not meant to shout out to the world “Hey, I am FREE. Use me because of it”, “I am better than MS because I am FREE”. It just escalated into that.
The GPL was just meant for a way for developers working on FREE software/OS alternatives to get protection for their work. If someone or company found a way to make money on their stuff, fine. But any advancements must be given back. To say to go out and “support your favorite distro by digging into our stingy wallets” is a moot point. You don’t write Free Software/Open source code and hope to be rich. And you don’t count on the users of your product to be generous. If that was the case, you creat a commercial product. Go read http://www.linuxrouter.org/ front page to see what happened to that project and the developers feelings. You think that happens to just one?
You do it for personal reason. And if you do make money on it, consider yourself the fortuante ones. The Large companies like Redhat/Suse have begun down the path that I think will ultimately lead to the demise of Linux. Capitallism will be the downfall of linux. Linux wasn’t meant for that arean. Linux just happened to be right place at right time and it has snowballed into what it is today (A viable Commercial alternative). It JUST along when the IT community was just starting to feel disgruntled with Microsoft and with NT , Blue Screens, and endless security holes and the ‘tinkerers’ product strated to gain more developers.
Open Source has a parasital persona. Like a virus that will kill its hosts be feeding on it enough until its death. Linux will kill big commercial unix and we will be left with large linux companies like RH. And then RH will be just another MS. But the problem is by then RH will finally be in position of commercial power with ~20 year old technolgy; Ms will have evolved into a new paradigm.
I always wonder what would have happened if the economy hadn’t got so bad and the tech bubble never burst. Would there have been the NEED for a Linux? Would it have snowballed into what it is? Only for the Anti-MS zealots…
eE
RH will never be “just another MS”.
Microsofts bussness practices have always been closed source and a focus on being proprietary.
Linux is not and will never be like that. The fact that the Kernel, the compiler, and all the other essential tools are completly free should be a hint.
Yes, there will be some more proprietary versions of linux out there, but linux will always be free as in beer and freedom.
Especially with projects like Debian/Slackware out there that have no plans on becoming commercial.
Listen – you single me out for attack, and then reenforce some of what I was saying. I agree completely with what you are saying regarding the GPL. What I disagree with is the idea that distros would be getting rich by getting a little support. I’m not talking about sending people a million dollars, but sending what you can spare for software that you use daily. The “clue” that I “have” is that shareware programers aren’t in it for money either, but if I use an app, I pay for it. Fine, don’t support any of the “big three” – use gentoo, slack or debian – but send them a few bucks to keep them afloat. I can honestly say this is the first time I have been lambasted for suggesting that people support a cause they believe in. Jesus.
Time will tell if you are right about Linux vs. pay-to-paly UNIX, but my money is on UNIX remaining healthy enough to hold its own.
I’m not sure why you posted that link. I read over the site, and it seems like the guy is pissed off that his idea didn’t fly/he couldn’t pull enough funding for the project. I know nothing about his company, but he hardly seems to be pleased that he worked his ass off on something, others are using it, and he is looking for a job. Were you trying to show me that linux people fsck each other over? Sure, that much is obvious from the few developers that I have met – many of them see themselves as the next Steve Jobs cum Linus Torvalds. Go to any conference and you’ll see as much. Of course you meet an equal amount of free-bird flower children who want everything to be free – I nearly expect to be hassled for a “Miracle Ticket” sometimes.
I take it you don’t care for Linix/*BSD?
No Floyd. I wasn’t singling you out for attack. Please don’t take it the wrong way. Regardless how it sounded.
Now…
>I take it you don’t care for Linix/*BSD?
You take it very wrong. I like Linux and Love BSD even more.
BSD has way better userland and the completeness of the whole can definetly be felt. It was well on its way to being the poster boy for the new economy/tech burst. But somehow Linux stole the show by being more vocal. BSD just sat in backround. BSD might have even gained a few users because of linux over the past few years. But for every ONE gained, I think they are losing 100’s. For all those MS disgruntled masses and companies looking to slash spending in this downturn trying to stay alive, who gets the serious looks? Linux. CEO’s, down to the IT admins keep hearing this “linux” thing. And they see every other day on their tech news sites another article about “Linux”. “IBM vows Linux support”, “Oracle advocates linux”, etc. BSD is quietly putting out wonderful OS, but is falling behind. Only to be pitched and supported by the BSD-Loyalist in some companies.
I hate how Democracy of products is controlled by the indirect ‘voting’ of mass ‘sevants’ instead of the wise few… But that is how the world works. Os/2, BeOS, etc. (BSD?)
*And* I am probably more supportive of my choices than 90% of the usrs who do use linux. I make my clients pay for every copy of Slackware I use for them. And also make them buy a BSD CD if we go that route. I could just buy them myself for my business and then just used those over and over, or I could have just d/l’ed them and used them for my clients over and over for free. But I don’t. I believe in giving some back.
And yes, I was trying showing how the community has begun to ‘eat’ itself with that link. That just happened to be the one off top of my head at the moment that I could find.
>Linux is not and will never be like that. The fact that the >Kernel, the compiler, and all the other essential tools are >completly free should be a hint.
Keep kiddng yourself. Sure it is NOW and for the foreseable future. But what happens shoud Linus get hit by a truck? What happens should RH’s kernel fork because it has gotten better in a few years with their more resources, etc? Or another fork comes along that surpasses it in momentum? What happens if Microsoft puts Linux Campatibilty layer into future Windows version ala BSD/Solaris?
The future is so unknownable that for someone to say ” but linux will always be free as in beer and freedom.” is ludicrous. Just look at the Internet, email, cellphones, DVD’s, AND Linux itself. And also look at the “network PC”, the Tucker Automobile, BeOS, etc. First group snuck up and changed the present world, the second group sizzled out. “Why” for each group?
eE
Keep kiddng yourself. Sure it is NOW and for the foreseable future. But what happens shoud Linus get hit by a truck?
You’re saying if Linus would die, all his code would magically become available under another license ?
What happens should RH’s kernel fork because it has gotten better in a few years with their more resources, etc? Or another fork comes along that surpasses it in momentum?
A fork would itself automatically be available under the GNU GPL license, and thus free. Furthermore any and all extentions would have to be GPLed
What happens if Microsoft puts Linux Campatibilty layer into future Windows version ala BSD/Solaris?
Most posix apps can easily be ported to windows, and indeed most have been. Also take a look at the Cygwin project. This changes absolutely nothing.
The future is so unknownable that for someone to say ” but linux will always be free as in beer and freedom.” is ludicrous
It’s not. Freedom is built into Linux through its license. You might as well say “the future is unknown, maybe the sky will fall tomorrow”
I couldn’t agree more. Is it so hard for some one to fork out a few bucks if they like there distribution & maybe that way the distributors have more money to sponsor people working for free developing “free” software we can use. It shits me each time I hear a distribution review and some one say’s they love the distribution & can’t wait to download it & shock horror the distribution is finding it hard to survive! Also on a dollar value in Austraila it cost $35 on average to by distribution software or I could spend the weekend (my time) spending 20hrs to save $35 bucks. That means I’m working for $1.75hr.
The worse case is this:
Linux User: “There isn’t any commercial software for Linux”
SuSE Linux: “Here is a SuSE Standard Server 8 which is based on UnitedLinux 1.0 and includes great technical support and consulting services”
Linux User: “That sucks! I have to spend money!”
Linux User: “There isn’t any commercial software for Linux”
Company willing to port software: “Sure, we’re looking at porting our product to Linux. It has 30% of the [market] in Windows and Apple. We would love to port it to Linux.”
Linux User: “That sucks! I have to spend money! why should I spend money! everything should be opensource! I should get it for free because I am a Linux user, whaaaaaaaa!”
Company willing to port software: “well, thank goodness we didn’t port the application otherwise we would have never made our money back for the investment”
Linux User: “There isn’t any commercial software for Linux”
And so the cycle continues. Linux users only have themselves to blame for the lack luster adoption of linux on the desktop. Sure, you can point to the occasional hick up to the Microsoft dominance, however, 9.9/10, a company will always go with Windows because that is what delivers the results. Companies wright for Windows and Apple, not because they have large user bases per-say, but they have a large number of people WILLING and ABLE to pay for the software. As a percentage, how many Linux desktop users out there would seriously considering paying for software? I have yet to meet 1 person who can claim they run Linux full time AND run a commercial application.
This is why I’m looking to move from Mandrake. It has some positive features, but it’s hell trying to upgrade those when new software comes out. Look at any new software release, and there are always rpms from Redhat, most times for Suse, and packages for smaller distros.
Mandrake is very rarely there.
I think this is a ‘feature’ that some distros haven’t figured out yet.