Apple Attempts to Patent Fast User Switching

Apple Defends its Blueberry Bush

Craig Bicknell

Story location: http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,21423,00.html

03:00 AM Aug. 25, 1999 PT

When you walk into a room and see a curvaceous, translucent-blueberry computer, you know right off the bat it’s an iMac.

It could be an E-Power PC, an eOne PC, or a Sotec e-one PC — not one of which is made by Apple Computer.

See also: Apple Sues iMac Clone

That’s awfully irritating to the folks at Apple. Tuesday the company filed its third lawsuit in less than two months against an alleged iMac knock-off artist, this time against Japanese computer maker Sotec.

The string of suits shows Apple is willing to fight to protect its blueberry patch. The question now is, will it win?

Apple and the accused companies aren’t talking, but legal experts say the question isn’t easily answered.

“Whether Apple will succeed or not is very hard to judge in advance,” said Jim Sobieraj, an intellectual property lawyer for Brinks Hofer Gilson & Lione in Chicago. “You can’t say that it’s a no-brainer whether they’ll win or lose.”

To prevail, Apple will have to prove that the supposed knock-offs infringe on the iMac’s “trade dress.” Trade dress is the legal term for a product’s distinctive aesthetic design features.

Apple will have to prove that the new machines look so much like iMacs that consumers could think Apple made them.

It might seem perfectly obvious that eMachine’s eOne — translucent-blue, rounded at the edges, with the monitor and CPU in one unit — is dressed an awful lot like an iMac. However, the similarities may not constitute legal infringement.

“The details count here,” said Mark Dickson, a partner at the Palo Alto office of Arnold White & Durkee.

First, Apple will have to prove that the iMac’s design features are distinctive. That will probably be the easy part.

“When we see an iMac computer, even without the name on it, we think of Apple,” said Mike Sobel, an intellectual property attorney with Graham & James in Palo Alto. “It’s becoming an icon.”

But distinctiveness alone won’t mean doo-dah if eMachines can prove that its design features are not merely aesthetic, but a product of function. Design features dictated by function can’t infringe on trade dress — one plane would not be infringing on another because it had wings.

EMachines might argue that its translucent shell is necessary so that users can see what’s going on inside the computer, for example. It might argue that its shapes and curves serve other important functions.

While there’s no obvious functional reason to use colors, it’s hard to win a trade-dress case on color alone, lawyers said.

Even if Apple convinces a jury that the eOne and the E-Power are design knock-offs, it will still have to prove that the knock-offs confuse consumers. Here, eMachines and Future Power, which makes the E-Power PC, might argue that consumers can’t get confused because the eOne and the E-Power run Microsoft Windows.

How could consumers confuse a Windows machine with a Macintosh?

“The defense will probably say, ‘Consumers are sophisticated. They know they’re not buying an Apple,'” said Sobieraj.

To counter such a defense, Apple will likely have to produce surveys proving that customers can’t tell the difference.

In the end, the iMac’s undisputed distinctiveness will likely give Apple the upper hand, at least in this first round of lawsuits, lawyers said.

A year ago, there were no curvy, colored computers, then there was the wildly successful iMac. Suddenly there are a bunch of competitors that seem to be catching a ride on Apple’s coattails. Judges and juries won’t be blind to that, lawyers said.

“I’d feel a lot better being Apple than eMachine,” said Ron Coolley, a partner in the Chicago office of Arnold White & Durkee.

Over time, however, more and more companies will make incremental steps towards iMac’s racier design — be it shape, color, or translucence. Those incremental steps by themselves won’t constitute trade dress infringement, but once they’re taken, they’ll foster the next step.

Apple’s lawyers most likely think different.

there’s something I don’t think you understand, Apple won the case in each instance!

A judge ruled that each of these companies had infringed on Apple’s trade dress and were therefore required to discontinue production of their product.

This whole argument stems from the fact that you said that Apple sued these companies because they used the color blue in their products. Something which isn’t true.

In my Opinion, Apple had no right to sue for eMachines for anything, the eOne while looking similar had many differences from the iMac. Apple did it just because they knew the eOne had a chance of becoming successful and Apple thought that it would intrude on their market, The Titanium laptop made by Porche looks like the TiBook, did Apple sue ? or even threaten to Sue ? No, they havent. People need to quit the holier than thou with Apple designs.

this site has some of the most patholigical apple haters on the net. I guess thats something to be proud of?!?

yes you are.

fool.

“There are all sorts of random examples that strike me… that Watson thing where Apple stole additions to Sherlock from an independent developer.”

They didn’t steal anything from this guy. There were companies all over the internet that were providing the services that Watson did. Did Apple utilize its mass to outdo a competator? Yes. Did they steal anything? No.

“The legal strongarming against the clones which it seemed to allow previously, wasting a raft of investment money. If you’ve lived in northern California, you hear worse without blinking. I’m not going to waste tears on Apple.”

Again, there is nothing wrong with utilizing your mass to gain a stronghold. That’s what business is about. However, the comparison at hand was if Apple is stealing like Microsoft did. The answer is no.

“Yeah yeah, you’re favorite company is the cleanest, your God is the right one, your friends are Freedom Fighters and enemies are Terrorists.”

[roll eyes]

“Face it, a lot of the Apple employees are milquetoast, because after years of Amelio and Jobs, only the passive ones stuck around.”

Lol. You most not be aware of the fireing spree that Jobs made when he became CEO at Apple. He got rid of all the dead wood, moved his people (NeXT employees) into positions of authority in the company and then hired a lot of new talent.

“The only good ones left are smart but self-effacing guys like Jonathan Ive.”

I may be wrong, but I believe he was hired during the short Emelio era.

“Definitely there are no Jef Raskins.”

Not familair with him

“Apple steals its ideas because you can’t find much boldness in the company.”

Steals its ideas? Which ones would those be?

No boldness? Pahleaze! Short of IBM, Apple, is among (if not the most) bold computer manufacturer out there.

“The one saving grace is that Jobs has a good idea of what PCs should be, since he was from the time when they were wonderous things.”

One saving grase? Sigh.

Wonderous things? [shakes head]

“Microsoft understood it too”

Microsoft has done something very well over the years and that is how to steal other’s technology not not be responsible for having done so.

“but their OSes have been crap because they’ve had to contort themselves to business realities as well”

I would aargue that their OSes are crap because they don’t innovate, but instead only immitate. because of that, they will always be behind a few steps. They are quick imitators though, so they are rarely far behind.

“and they’re succeeding in putting a PC on everyone’s desk.”

A feat that would have been done by another company had Microsoft had to achieve its position on its own merit rather than copying others.

“It may not be the most beautiful PC, but it’s cheap and good enough for homeless in libraries and poor people to learn from the net and write resumés.”

As is the case with other computing platforms. PCs (nor Windows) is not special in this regard.

“I swear, you Apple people will stop being trolled with FUD when you stop spreading the stuff like fertilizer.”

Who is spreading FUD?

“Trolls do it because you’re unconsciously trolls yourselves, or at least you act like them.”

Ummmm… no.

“Someone up there said there is no such thing as an evil company. True. But there is also no such thing as a benevolent public company. By definition, Apple, as a public company has to put shareholder value above all else. ”

Cavet: Within the boundaries of the law.

I will name no names.

Also public opinion can run counter to the will of the shareholders, and can still have an influence. Public image and all that.

By Anonymous (IP: —.ph.ph.cox.net) –

“Lol. You most not be aware of the fireing spree that Jobs made when he became CEO at Apple. He got rid of all the dead wood, moved his people (NeXT employees) into positions of authority in the company and then hired a lot of new talent. ”

There is Steve’s knee-p@d girl at work again! Apple can’t do wrong, Steve is so great. the same rant and the same dellusions. You must be on the Indigo translucent kool-aid now. 🙂

More BS and Apple kool-aid propaganda.

Apple didn’t give a damn when they left the Newton user high and dry. BS, Apple was afraid of a pc maker with a better product, leaving them on the dust. Clearly shows that color and form was the only thing that Apple had, technologically it was an inferior product. Apple is about color and eye candy, live with it!

I don’t care about the 3/4% market share of vomit inducing Mac designs I want the patent on Beige box’s

“More BS and Apple kool-aid propaganda.”

What’s BS about my comment?

Koolaid? Are you calling me a cultist again or are you saying that I’m drinking koolaid? Both are untrue.

“Apple didn’t give a damn when they left the Newton user high and dry.”

Actually, I’m sure they did care. It was a market that they hesitated to cut off because it was an area where they were doing some incredible R&D. However, it wasn’t very profitable, so Apple had to cut it off.

“BS, Apple was afraid of a pc maker with a better product, leaving them on the dust.”

They discontinued the netwon because they feared competition? Apple competes very well in a competative market. Why would that be any different with the newton? They discontinued the newton because when Steve became CEO he had to make some very unfavorable decisions to cut costs. One of them was cutting out the newton.

“Clearly shows that color and form was the only thing that Apple had”

Apple has always had a lot more than color and form factor to sell their products.

“technologically it was an inferior product.”

(Assuming you’re talking about the iMac this time) The iMac was not a very technically advanced product. However, it didn’t need to be.it needed to be VERY easy to set up, and easy to use… and it was. For the market Apple was targeting, the product was fantastic was was shown in its incredible popularity.

“Apple is about color and eye candy, live with it!”

Why should I live with it. That’s not true at all.

“I don’t care about the 3/4% market share of vomit inducing Mac designs I want the patent on Beige box’s “

Vomit inducing? Now you’re just trolling…

“E-Power runs the Windows operating system and includes a floppy disk drive. The price of the PCs is also substantially cheaper, starting at US$799, compared to iMac’s estimated price of $1,200.”

Nobody is disputing that. The question at hand was whether or not Apple was incorrect in suing them for tradedress. They were not incorrect… as the judge ruled intheir favor.

>>“Can you give any specific examples? “<<

“Don’t have the bandwidth to report ALL your crap”

Ya, that’s what I thought.

By Jargon (IP: —.evrtwa1.dsl-verizon.net) – Posted on 2003-07-12 02:39:59

“you make no sense.

answer me this, is english your first language?”

So what are you like a neonazi or something?

“I think he may be asking if your lack of understanding can be attributed English not being your native language.”

Of course, if I do not agree with your Mac propaganda, I must tbe a foreigner! Sheesh. U Mix the kool-aid with bigotry as well?

turns a question about language usage into calling me a neo nazi bigot.

dude, when you write stuff like ‘people dont decide to turn into macs’, and other gibberish, asking about your language IS NOT BIGOTRY.

Go fuck yourself and your stupid lil troll game.

Thats over the line and you are done.

This has been the only topic all fricken day, come on Eugenia post something to relieve these flame wars!

macmakes should be apple makes.

[roll eyes]

[shakes head]

I notice you start doing these little empty emotional responses when you feel to the wall. Just an observation, take it as you wish.

Again, there is nothing wrong with utilizing your mass to gain a stronghold. That’s what business is about. However, the comparison at hand was if Apple is stealing like Microsoft did. The answer is no.

Uh-oh, let’s see what I can’t demonstrate about the Watson debacle:

Exclusive – Watson Developer Speaks Out Against Apple

http://www.macobserver.com/article/2002/07/29.7.shtml

“Throughout the whole ordeal, user reaction has been strong. ‘E-mail letters of support have been flowing in from users upset that Apple would do something like this to one of its small developers,’ he said.”

Eugenia’s editorial against Apple’s copy-catting

http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=1390

“Their new Sherlock search application for OSX 10.2 Jaguar is a direct copy-cat of Watson, and there is no denying in that.”

Now, I’m sure you can split hairs about “stealing like Microsoft did.” I guess if Apple did any more, we’d have MacOS XP.

Lol. You most not be aware of the fireing spree that Jobs made when he became CEO at Apple. He got rid of all the dead wood, moved his people (NeXT employees) into positions of authority in the company and then hired a lot of new talent.

That’s the charitable way to view it. One could also say he was removing the stalwarts of the old regime. That’s more common.

Not familair with him [Jef Raskin]

And you’re lecturing me about Apple? In Google, search for this, keeping the quote marks: “father of the Macintosh”.

No boldness? Pahleaze! Short of IBM, Apple, is among (if not the most) bold computer manufacturer out there.

Well, at least you give the nod to IBM. But I didn’t say Apple wasn’t bold. Just that it can’t find any bold ideas inside the company; it needs to steal it from elsewhere. From Apple’s 12th employee:

“Nobody at Apple can stand up to Steve Jobs, which is very sad and not at all good for the company. Understand that this is a company where nearly everyone takes the stairs in the building that contains the executive offices because they are afraid of being caught in the elevator with Steve Jobs.

“What’s even sadder is that Steve actually likes people to stand up to him, but it almost never happens. And while Steve can be charming in the extreme, he is not a guy who can manage a stable of temperamental artists. Imagine Steve bringing Mariah Carey to tears. There can be only one temperamental artist at Apple, and his name is Steve.”

http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20030417.html

I can find more entries, for example, one from a blogger who left Apple last year because everyone was “milquetoast” and unable to come up with bold ideas.

I would aargue that their OSes are crap because they don’t innovate, but instead only immitate. because of that, they will always be behind a few steps. They are quick imitators though, so they are rarely far behind.

OSNews looks rather similar to Slashdot. Every PC follows the general von Neumann architecture. MacOS X has a FreeBSD center. You will always find “imitation” because some ideas are good and your customers clamor for them. Every artist steals and repackages to a large extent. It was no coincidence da Vinci was surrounded by Rennaissance artists, or Turing was surrounded by people like Gödel. They stole and built.

[putting a PC on everyone’s desk] would have been done by another company had Microsoft had to achieve its position on its own merit rather than copying others.

You don’t know that; I can easily see a bunch of incompatible machines fighting crazy battles. Or a powerful Apple sans Jobs, that wouldn’t have been weak enough for Jobs to return. People need to stop blaming the Micro$oft boogieman when it’s clear — Apple imploded. Gates didn’t kick Jobs out. Commodore imploded too. Microsoft remained cool and had an innovative company structure. Their innovation was in building an impressive, decentralized (for the time) implementing machine.

Who is spreading FUD?

Who do you think I mean? You simply need to lash out against Microsoft while you defend Apple; but if you were a MS zealot, you’d just attack Apple and anti-MS FUD.

” I notice you start doing these little empty emotional responses when you feel to the wall. Just an observation, take it as you wish.”

I don it not because I’m up against a wall. Rather, I do it when a response seems too futile. I typically do it when he makes insults.

“Uh-oh, let’s see what I can’t demonstrate about the Watson debacle:”

Apple didn;t copy Watson. These services were already present throughout the web. Additionally, Sherlock was already incorporating services before Watson came out with their product. Some might say that Watson copied Apple’s concept, applied software that was already on the web, and completed the direction that Apple was moving towards ahead of schedule.

” Now, I’m sure you can split hairs about “stealing like Microsoft did.” I guess if Apple did any more, we’d have MacOS XP.”

There is a common misconception that Apple borrowed much of their interface concepts from Windows. (ideas such as the dock for example are similar to the task bar in Windows. What these individuals forget is that Microsoft copied that idea from NeXTSTEP, the operating system which Apple purchased and used as the foundation for OS X.

“Well, at least you give the nod to IBM. But I didn’t say Apple wasn’t bold. Just that it can’t find any bold ideas inside the company”

This is the type of comment where I would have otherwise made one of those “emotion responses” because of the idiocy of the comment itself, but because you seem to think that I use those because I feel backed against a wall, I’ll break it down for you.

Quote One: “I didn’t say Apple wasn’t bold.”

Quote Two: “[Rather, there are just no] bold ideas inside the company.”

Do I really have to explain?

“[Apple] needs to steal it from elsewhere.”

Again, what has Apple stolen for another? You still havn’t given a legit answer yet.

“Nobody at Apple can stand up to Steve Jobs, which is very sad and not at all good for the company.”

As I said before, Steve is a brilliant business man, but many individuals consider him to be a jerk. That’s fine with me. I don’t want to be his friend, I just want the great technology that comes out of his company.

“OSNews looks rather similar to Slashdot. Every PC follows the general von Neumann architecture. MacOS X has a FreeBSD center. You will always find “imitation” because some ideas are good and your customers clamor for them. Every artist steals and repackages to a large extent. It was no coincidence da Vinci was surrounded by Rennaissance artists, or Turing was surrounded by people like Gödel. They stole and built.”

You’re response implies that I was saying that cheaters never prosper. That’s incorrect. Shoot, look at Microsoft.

“You don’t know that [another company could have put a computer on every desk if Microsoft had to achieve its position on its own merit rather than copying others.]”

Personal computers were an immediate sucess and were growing rapidly even BEFORE Microsoft stole others ideas. There’s no reason to believe that this trend would have stopped.

“I can easily see a bunch of incompatible machines fighting crazy battles.”

The market would have declared the dominant platform is is the case in all marketplaces where healthy competition is rapant. Microsoft forced an unnatural result by stealing the code from companies which would have caused the industry to follow those idealistic concepts.

Most of Microsoft’s OS ideas came from three companies. Dr. DOS, Apple, IBM, NexT.

“People need to stop blaming the Micro$oft boogieman when it’s clear — Apple imploded.”

Thats not entierly fair.

Yes, Apple had problems, many of which were the result of lost sales due to theft. The other problems would have been far easier to overcome if a thief wasn’t takeing market sahre away using the technology that they created. Microsoft’s theft IS primarly resposible for Apple’s current market position as well as the lack of healthy competition in the marketplace now.

“Gates didn’t kick Jobs out.”

As if that was Apple’s primary problem.

“Commodore imploded too.”

Yes they did… largely in part to bad management and the other as a result of market sahre being lost to a company which gained market sahre faster than what it would have been able to naturally… (without stealing code and concepts from others)

“Microsoft remained cool and had an innovative company structure.”

its easy to remain cool when you dont have to invent everything but you get to reap all the rewards from other’s hard work.

“Their innovation was in building an impressive, decentralized (for the time) implementing machine.”

Microsoft didn’t build the machine which makes up the framework of the PC. IBM did. Similarly, Microsoft didn’t invent the Operating system that allowed it to grow so rapidly, Dr. DoS, Apple, IBM and NeXT did.

“>>>Who is spreading FUD?

“Who do you think I mean?”

You are accusing me of it, but I returned the question the way I did because nothing I have said suggests FUD. Rather, it was you that was spreading FUD all along.

So far, everybody that has chimed in is against you. They all agree. YOU ARE THE ONE SPREADING FUD! STOP IT!

“You simply need to lash out against Microsoft while you defend Apple”

Not at all. I’m simply explaining market realities. Realities which don’t sugar coat what Microsoft has done. You asked the question and i answered it. It’s not as if I started a thread saying Microsoft is bad because they did XYZ to Apple. Rather, you asked why Apple et-all are in their current market position and I explained why.

If anyone is starting these types of XYZ conversations… it is you. They’re all over this thread.

“if you were a MS zealot, you’d just attack Apple and anti-MS FUD.”

If I was speaking factually, I wouldn;t have much of a base to stand on if my arguments are like those that you’ve put fourth in your attempts to cast FUD on Apple.

Rather, it was you that was spreading FUD all along. So far, everybody that has chimed in is against you. They all agree. YOU ARE THE ONE SPREADING FUD! STOP IT!

Forgetting for the moment I don’t particularly care for what “everybody” thinks (herd mentality?), I just posted three times in this thread. Far less than you did.

In fact I’m not too interested in pressing further because I don’t think you’ve brought up any new points, but I’d like to clarify one point:

Microsoft didn’t build the machine which makes up the framework of the PC.

No, I meant they built an impressive company that was very good at implementing code. Companies of that size tend to be much worse, especially given the mad need to grow.

A little off topic, but can anyone tell me why Apple named the Macintosh, Macintosh. I know you all will go to Google to find out before you respond. But point is, 95 percent of you Apple guys cannot tell me right off the top of your head why they named the Mac, Macintosh.

It looks like Apple is trying to pull a fast one on us. Good thing we know better and can provide prior art. I hate patents.

The Gods themselves fight in vain.

“The taskbar was created by Microsoft not by NeXT”

No, Acorn had it before MS 😉

“Microsoft stole the GUI from Apple who stole it from Xerox Parc”

Now that’s only a half-truth. Xerox was (as far as we know) the first to implement a GUI, and it was very low on functionality, but “GUI” was bound to evolve sooner or later. Xerox PARC invited Jobs to come check it out, and when Xerox Corporate showed no interest in further development and cancelled the project, Apple jumped at the opportunity. Apple’s first Mac was far more developed then what Xerox had, there was much innovation there. Again, don’t confuse innovation to invention, innovation means Apple took the GUI and made it useful as well as popularized it.

“Companies steal ideas from each other, and just for the record Steve stole the idea for the GUI first, so that makes him more of a scam artist than Bill.”

I don’t believe the idea for the first GUI was “stolen” from anyone, however to quote Pablo Picasso, “Good artists create, great artists steal.”

“Apple sued MS because the trash can ( a place to store temporarily removed files) was invented by Apple and Apple thought they were ripped off, read the complaint its all public record.”

As a law student, I can tell you that is a very valid complaint in court. The trash can is a specific and specialized function of the OS that was created by Apple. You act suprised that Apple would sue for that, hell, I would too. The trash can was a big feature for the Mac OS.

Roberto, remember

1) Don’t tell half-truths.

2) Learn the difference between innovate and invent.

3) Understand Intellectual Property Law before you talk about it.

Roberto maybe you should be the one doing a little research before spouting off.

1. Stealing the GUI

Steve did visit Xerox Parc and he did see Smalltalk integrated environment but the difference between what Apple created and Xerox systems was substantial. I think if you had a better understanding of what Steve saw at Xerox you would understand this argument a little better. If you would like to know what happened read this article by Bruce Horn:

http://www.apple-history.com/frames/?&page=gui_horn1

2. Look and Feel Lawsuit

Actually their were 189 elements that Apple highlighted in the suit. The judge ruled that 179 of these elements were licensed to MS in a 1985 agreement that Apple had signed. The judge finally ruled that the 10 remaining items were simply one of very few, ways to express an idea. The trash can was 1 of 189.

3. Only innovative person Linus

Wow. What a blanketed and rather foolish statement to make. Don’t get me wrong, Linus is very intelligent, but I would pit Woz against him any day of the week. This statement alone really proves your ignorance of the computer industry as a whole and specifically Apple and it’s history. Here are a couple of people you may want to look at that have done some amazing things while working for Apple. (only a few of the many, if you would like more feel free to ask)

Steve Wozniak-true engineering genius

Jeff Raskin

Bruce Horn

Bud Tribble

Bill Atkinson

Andy Hertzfeld

Randy Wigginton

h. Burell Smith

And from today’s Apple employee’s why not take a look at Avie Tevanian. Are you claiming he is not innovative or has not done anything innovative?

4. Mac, Macintosh (Mouse Activated Computer)

Another company was using the name McIntosh, spelled correctly, so Apple paid a very large chunk of money for the name Macintosh. Also paid for Apple as well.

I am not an Apple apologist/zealot but it is amazing to me that so few of you so called “experts” know so little about a company that spawned so many ideas and incredible people. Don’t go spreading FUD…..

this thread is to funny. I once heard a quote, “if its said enough times, people will believe it”.

I think it’s true, given all the false info on these threads concerning Apple’s history.

Let Woz tell the story!

“You need a lesson in Operating Systems, MS Dos did not come about through Dr. DOS, It came from a Operating System developed in the 1960’s called QDOS”

You’re right. My mistake.

“The taskbar was created by Microsoft not by NeXT”

The taskbar was a copy of the Dock from NeXTSTEP

Apple chose the name Macintosh fot its computers because the “McIntosh apple” is/was “America’s favorite apple [fruit]”

Btw.. I knew that, not from search on google either.

Apple Attempts to Patent Fast User Switching

First you must control yourself.

http://ddi.digital.net/~gandalf/trollfaq.html

http://www.searchlores.org/trolls.htm

http://www.jefraskin.com/forjef2/jefweb-compiled/published/holes.ht…

“What I can tell you for sure is that Jobs is a tempermental asshole sometimes, Woz is a cool, cool man, and that Apple has been screwed a few times, has screwed other people a few times, and life goes on. I like Mac OSX – I would not use OS9 – but I laso like Linux, and to a certain extent I like windows too, though mostly just because of the wast array of software that is available for it.”

Your post seem to come from personal experience. Anyone that has spent a reasoanble amount of time in Sillicon Valley, particularly Palo Alto and Cuppertino, knows that Steve Jobs is an asshole. He is sucessfull, nobody can’t deny that, but an asshole nonetheless. The real brain, and a decent human being is Woz, I have no quarrels with the guy, mostly respect.

“Several people around here need to get off their high horses.”

Well, you and I see Steve Jobs as a person, with plus and minuses, just like everyone else, in other words, human. But around this forum there are those, some loser Apple saleman from Peoria, than worship the ground Steve walks on. They claim Steve can do no wrong. And some have turn into Steve’s pom-pom girl. I go as far as to think that Anonymous (IP: 12.105.181.—)has some sort of misplaced sexual fixation with Steve. I mean mention any wrong about Steve and the guy jumps. Truly remeniscent of kool-aid drinking fanatism. Is every Mac user like that, of course not. Can Steve do something right, sure. Is Steve uncapable of doing wrong, absurd of course he can he is human, and as a human he is an asshole. People that have work with or around him know this.

Apple screw people over the Newton and they didn’t care, that is BS, if anyone think that Apple was created for the betterment of the world, they are on crack.

Anyway thanks for your post, is good to have a reality check in here.

< “The only person in the computer industry who has actually done anything innovative or creative is Linus Torvalds”

I don’t know where to begin tearing apart your little theory about Linus being the only “innovative or creative” person in the computer industry. >

You are right, I forgot one other person, Woz is also as creative as Linus, they both did not have to steal or ” borrow ” ideas for their inventions.

< Oh boy, do you ever…

It was the late 70’s, and it (QDOS) was based on a program called CP/M, written by a CP/M programmer illegally using some small amount of CP/M source code (the focus of the then Caldera lawsuit I believe), not the 60’s. You are a decade off. >

Actually CP/M was much different than QDOS, where CP/M actually came into the story was that Digital Research created CP/M and MS borrowed ideas from CP/M and integrated them into DOS, but DOS was brought from Seattle Computer Products by Microsoft. Digital sold the CP/M OS to Caldera in the 90’s, they didnt care about the OS, VMS, Tru64 was the way they were going, CP/M became Dr. DOS, Caldera wanted to make some quick cash since they were going under and sued MS foir the ideas MS borrowed from CP/M. Their first settlement proposal was that Caldera wanted 500 million from MS, Bill said ” screw you, we are going to court ” Caldera backed off and then lowered it to 150 million which I guess was more suitable to MS. Canopy then sold dr. DOS to some company, who uses it now in ATMs and other embedded devices after Caldera aquired SCO and the UNIX System V.

< Uh, no he didn’t. He wrote most of the initial kernel on his own, but it was not even complete when he finally released it. The community that formed around it wrote most of the kernel as we know it today, and a whole other community wrote the tools and libraries that now are associated with it. The GNU Project. The Free Software Foundation, the Berkeley Software Distribution. Torvalds is a neat guy for sure, but he’s not nearly the god that some of you pinheads seem to think he is. Steve Jobs might have a reality distortion field at his dispoal, but Linuz doesn’t need one, because so many of you hardcore newbee Linux zealots generate one of your ouwn. >

Actually it was quite usable when it was first released, I remember that day, I was on a BB when I first heard about Linux downloaded it about 2 weeks after I heard about it. I wanted it for a 386 that I had bought and didnt want to use DOS or OS/2, at that time I had a NeXT system that was my main machine. I used it for awhile, got a job with a company that actually used NeXT systems and let Linux go, I then ran into Linux again about 93 or 94 and started using it again. and have been back on Linux since that time. I dont see Linus as a god, but he is a great man who earned his place in history with something other than scandal and controversy like Steve Jobs and Bill Gates.

>>”Several people around here need to get off their high horses.”<<<

“Well, you and I see Steve Jobs as a person, with plus and minuses, just like everyone else, in other words, human. But around this forum there are those, some loser Apple saleman from Peoria, than worship the ground Steve walks on.”

Assuming you’re talking about me… Nothing that I’ve said would indicate that.

“They claim Steve can do no wrong.”

No, that was YOU that said that. You were saying that I/we believe that steve can do no wrong, yet we’ve never said anything of the sort not have we implied such.

“And some have turn into Steve’s pom-pom girl. I go as far as to think that Anonymous (IP: 12.105.181.—)has some sort of misplaced sexual fixation with Steve.”

Your a sick and twisted fool. For you to suggest such a thing really displays your insecurities.

“I mean mention any wrong about Steve and the guy jumps.”

You are jumping to conclusions. I’ve jumped all over you because the vast majority of what you say are incorrect statements about Apple. I think I’ve only corrected 1 or 2 misstatements you’ve made about Steve.

“Truly remeniscent of kool-aid drinking fanatism.”

I’ve already told you that I don’t belong to a cult, nor do I drink Koolaid yet you continue to say this. More FUD i see…

“Is every Mac user like that, of course not.”

Not every mac user is as educated about Apple as I say they may be unlikely to defend your FUD. However, they (as i would imagine knowledgable users of any prefered platform) would correct misstatemetns if they caught them in use the way you have done.

“Can Steve do something right, sure. Is Steve uncapable of doing wrong, absurd of course he can he is human, and as a human he is an asshole. People that have work with or around him know this. “

From what people have said, you’re absolutely right. Thankfully, nobody has said otherwise.

“Apple screw people over the Newton and they didn’t care, that is BS”

of course they cared. They knew that there was a considerble user base that was using and developing for the portable device. They didn’t do it because they are uncaring or had a desire to screw people over (I don;t even know why you would suggest such a thing), they did it because the product was unprofitable when Apple desperatly needed profitable business ventures as well as things that didn’t bleed the company’s resources. Steve had to make an uncomfortable decision, but he did it for the overall health of the company. I don’t think that anyone likes the fact that it had to happen but i think most would agree that it was a necessary evil.

“if anyone think that Apple was created for the betterment of the world, they are on crack.”

Who said that?

Read my previous post…..and then why don’t you go troll somewhere else so we don’t have to keep reading this crap you keep spewing.

In retrospect, I feel it necessary to qualify my use of the word “revolutionary” by saying that it is a subjective term.

I’m using it the contest that origional, very useful idea = revolutionary.

contest = context