Microsoft Corp. will spend about $6.8 billion on research and development in its new fiscal year, an increase of 8% from the previous 12 months, said Bill Gates. They will be moving more deeply into the model-based programming space, said company chairman and chief software architect Bill Gates.
Bill Gates: Longhorn ‘Big Bet’ For Company
About The Author
Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
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That’s a lot of freaking solitaire.
d@
By the time Longhorn becomes mainstream (4-5 years!) OSS – especially Linux – will have become almost ubiquitous and be of incredibly high quality.
It will have to be something amazing to convince people to carry on spending like they have been doing over recent years. I’ve a feeling this is not going to be the cash cow previous Windows/Office products have proved to be.
There seems to be a common theme regarding comments from Gates and new technologies… they are always “bet the company” or “big bets”… all this betting makes me think that this is a big gamble.
I have to agree. Right now the only major challenge to OSS is going to be the SCO lawsuit. If SCO can keep this FUD going for 3-4 years it could do serious damage to Linux and OSS in general. Hopefully IBM helps us out here.
//By the time Longhorn becomes mainstream (4-5 years!) OSS – especially Linux – will have become almost ubiquitous and be of incredibly high quality. //
yea….sure it will…..I have been hearing the same shit for 5 years already…….what makes you think MS products won’t improve as well…..Linux will always be behind in the desktop arena.
Troll on my friend……and I am a linux/OSX user so don’t start your Windows Vs. Linux bullshit.
I’m wondering what other significant improvements one could bring to the desktop?? What compelling features would make it worthwhile to switch from xp to something else? For all practical purposes, windows 95 is still good enough for most people. I’d like to be proved wrong, but so far, it looks like PCs would soon hit a dead end. Just, you know, like the watch: solid, consistent, mostly finished, with little or no room for growth or improvement.
yea, that’s true… the pc is quickly becoming a commodity, and as such, room for growth or improvement is slowed, though not completely stopped
anyways, that’s just what i think…
Don’t worry, Microsoft will continue to become the “ubiquitous” entity. Why do you think the government is their largest customer? They know there are deep pockets there, and quite frankly I think that’s been the plan all along.
If you buy their software, you are helping big brother, in my opinion.
Unfortunately some of us need to. yuck.
you all take the whole IT industry way to seriously…..as long as you have a job and get a pay check….who the f&#k cares if you use windows or not……if computers have consumed so much of your life that this is the case I would suggest a career change….life is too short in my opinion.
By the time Longhorn becomes mainstream (4-5 years!)
Last I heard, it was 2005 (2 years), unless it changed (I didn’t read the article).
especially Linux – will have become almost ubiquitous and be of incredibly high quality.
Windows will probably remain stagnent, but Windows itself has never been the big draw in the first place – it’s the apps that run on top of it.
“you all take the whole IT industry way to seriously…..as long as you have a job and get a pay check….who the f&#k cares if you use windows or not……”
The reason why we’re concerned is becacuse many of us use computers, platforms, operating systems etc that are far better in some tasks that that which microsoft provides.
We want to see the best product gain widespread use so that we aren’t forced to use so a Windows PC solution which which in many instances is far from being the best tool for the job yet at least in some capasity, gets the job done. The way the market has shifted in the last 10 years, many of us are in such a position right now and want to change it.
It’s sad to see someone with absolutely NO vision….
So what you are saying is that ‘Windows sucks money nuts’… yet it is perfect for the desktop and there is no room for improvement? If it sucks, then there must be room for improvement…. there is always room for improvement in EVERY market, just because you can’t see it doesn’t mean that there isn’t.
and bet the company, and I mean the whole comany. and if you win, let it ride. Keep letting it ride until you loose it all.
By the time Longhorn becomes mainstream (4-5 years!) OSS – especially Linux – will have become almost ubiquitous and be of incredibly high quality.
Yeah Right!, first of all, OSS is not just linux! OSS runs fine on windows too, aren’t the win32 versions of oo.org or mozilla as good as the linux versions?
And second, if you want to compare longhorn with anything then compare it to linux/xfree86, and let’s see…. the kernels (nt and linux) are just about as “inovated” as they can get so that’s a mute point. As for xfree86 it took until 2003 to get colored mouse cursors and change the refresh rate on the fly (and i’m not too sure about that one), so by 2005 they will still be working on autoconfig and responsiveness while windows will have a 3d accelerated gui (wich is what longhorn is all about).
Longhorn’s improvements include graphics scaling up to the 10’s of thousands of pixels in resolution (21,280 x 11,024). This increases reading speed and is easier on the eyes. They are also getting into hardware, which will link incoming phone calls to a relevant contact in outlook. Also DirectX animation of window environment and much eye candy. Also great multimedia support. And not only that, they will release a media center edition of Longhorn as well (also their own hardware). The future looks bright and exciting indeed. (ok back to Libranet for now)..
and Yes 7 bills or so is a LOT of money.
with every new version of windows, they support less and less hardware and software…
with every new version of linux, they support more and more hardware and software…
I have no sound with Windows 2003 server
I have no Web Cam with Windows XP
I have no PhotoShop with Windows 2000
On the other hand, they all work fine with a shiney new RedHat 9 🙂
Soon we will see Windows 2010 – it supports no hardware or software, but the Windows user community is raving about it!
Maybe around the time it finally ships, MS will catch up to Mac OS X 10.2 in quality…
then again probably not
///I have no PhotoShop with Windows 2000///
Just another troll……I have no problems running this.
Yup and move themes from PlaySkool over to SesameStreet with the option to pick between Oscar, Big Bird, Bert or Ernie for your desktop assistant.
that would depend upon your version of photoshop, now, wouldn’t it. my version crashes in windows 2000, making it very unusable. a little presumptious to assume that I am running the same version, and since yours works, I must be trolling.
i am just pointing out what everybody else knows, and microsoft acknowledged, a lot of software broke with windows 2000. even more with windows xp. even more with windows 2003 server.
all i’m saying is that we can expect the same with longhorn. if the trend continues then ultimately no hardware or software will be supported – reduction to absurdity!
on the other hand, it is impressive how legacy and brand spanking new hardware support keeps rolling out almost daily with linux.
where is there a decent screen shot of Gisele Bundchen, Heidi Klum, Christy Turlington, Carolyn Murphy, or Milla Jovovich???
damn that microsoft and their promises!!!!
I run right now Photoshop 4 on windows 2000. Why, because i am cheap. It’s not meant for it and has it’s issues but it works just like a single user program. That is if I work with a file in user A, and switch to user B then the drop down list of latest opened files in Photoshop will reflect that even in another user account. But it works so don’t spread lies.
To embrace what is new, you must sometimes release what once was.
I’m not saying that I totally agree with M$, or anyone else, for that matter. However, backwards-compatiability should only go so far. MS’s weakness is the volume of software those OS’s support. If there were less software, they could have made more drastic changes long ago, but probably couldn’t have afforded it. They are plagued by vulnerabilities due to the no. of people/companies trying to find the holes. They are a victim of their own ‘success,’ it seems.
Making developers more and more dependant on tools in order to program alows Microsoft to control people more easily. It’s eaiser to force developers to upgrade to new tools than it is to force them to upgrade to new programming languages.
something about voice command support built into the OS. Do you think this could make windows a faster and/or easier system for administration than *nix?
The only thing that might make me try out Microsoft would be if I were able to use classes and methods that supported sexy female voices. Than I was able to make those voices say whatever I wanted and better yet, I could have lots of sexy electronic females. Than I might be interested in what Microsoft has to offer.
No matter how much money you spend on a turd, it will still end up being pretty $hitty.
Then again maybe the R&D dept will have steak & lobster EVERY NIGHT instead of just lobster monday – thursday.
“on the other hand, it is impressive how legacy and brand spanking new hardware support keeps rolling out almost daily with linux. ”
Right, how are them ATI drivers?
“Yup and move themes from PlaySkool over to SesameStreet with the option to pick between Oscar, Big Bird, Bert or Ernie for your desktop assistant.”
Or go to themexp.org or wincustomize.com and download hundreds of different and interesting themes. You managed to find your way here so it shouldn’t be too hard.
rule #1 in trolling:
accuse others of spreading lies
“Right, how are them ATI drivers?”
I don’t know about them, ’cause I only use nVidia 😀
Longhorn’s improvements include graphics scaling up to the 10’s of thousands of pixels in resolution (21,280 x 11,024). This increases reading speed and is easier on the eyes. They are also getting into hardware, which will link incoming phone calls to a relevant contact in outlook. Also DirectX animation of window environment and much eye candy. Also great multimedia support. And not only that, they will release a media center edition of Longhorn as well (also their own hardware). The future looks bright and exciting indeed. (ok back to Libranet for now)..
Gnome is switching to a mainly SVG environment (svg icons render quicker than png icons do in Gnome2) so this will be a moot point very soon.
People questioning my ‘4-5 years’ comment… just because Longhorn might be released by the end of 2005, it will not be fully supported by the majority of vendor applications for another 2 years after that – especially if it is as radical a departure from the Windows architecture as they are touting it to be.
And since when is giving your opinion trolling?
The crowd here is getting less respectful than on Slashdot, and that takes something. Respect yourselves and others, people!
Your the bomb. i have still PS4 working. it has issues with memory management and is not really for windows 2000 as it was NT4 at the time and a LOT changed between those. But i can still install, run and manipulate and print photos. But hey, i am the greatest troll in the world. Who is walking on my bridge?
Slashdot kicks ass.
last time i checked, the programmers in the trenches have thrown out UML for something 10 times better. ACTUAL WRITING CODE. Neat concept…
UML Developer goes “hey, we should have these interfaces?”
Programmer goes “phuck you and get back to work you wanna be.”
us$6.8bn? assuming 1 out of 100 persons in the world buy a computer system, that’s about $130 for a copy of the system software!!! (assume 5bn people in the world!)
yea….sure it will…..I have been hearing the same shit for 5 years already…….what makes you think MS products won’t improve as well…..Linux will always be behind in the desktop arena.
Troll on my friend……and I am a linux/OSX user so don’t start your Windows Vs. Linux bullshit.
Well, instead of farting out your head, why don’t you look at the vast improvements that have taken place with Linux and other OSS projects during the last five years and give somebody some credit?
Better software is never a bad thing.
>Just, you know, like the watch: solid, consistent, mostly >finished, with little or no room for growth or improvement.
Have you never heard of this company called “Fossil”? Well, this company has 2 product lines (“Big Tic” and “Kaleido”) which are major improvements to the concept of the “watch”.
😉
http://www.fossil.com/
I swear!
I give them all the credit in the world…….but there is no fucking way OSS is going to take over the industry like you little OSS whores think.
my2cents
With army of Indian developers that work for a fraction of cost, MS can do a lot with $6.8B budget.
Even so, Longhorn is still Microsoft’s product. You’ll see the heritage, numerous security hole discoveries no matter how hard they work on LH. Let’s face it, Win2k3 was released after MS started Trustworthy Computing Initiative and now we see critical flaws weekly. What is “Trustworthy computing” supposed to be anyway? Sounds like magic words (BS) for MS propaganda.
Longhorn will be another swiss cheese OS with DRM to manage personal information. Privacy concerns will kill LH. And is MS going to release the source code to China under their Shared Code program? Great.
Maybe what they should do is put ugly M$ themes on top of BSD and call it a new OS from scratch. The richiest guy in the world doesn’t learn. It is not budget that makes OS more secure.
I don’t think anybody seriously thinks that. Personally, I could care less which OS you worship, but when you make statements that infer that Linux and OSS havent progressed at all during the last five years, or haven’t delivered on comments to make Linux work better on the desktop, I’ll have to call you on it.
For me, Linux and BSD have already taken over Windows. Past that, my apathy towards the subject is beyond description.
“By the time Longhorn becomes mainstream (4-5 years!)
Last I heard, it was 2005 (2 years), unless it changed (I didn’t read the article).”
Umm.. it is “rather” unimportant when it will be available. The question is when it will be adopted by world + dog. Today, we hear all these news about server 2003, but in fact loads of people still maintain their NT boxes and will keep on doing so. Only because MS announces new soft doesn’t mean it’s being beamed onto ever machine in that very second. I think the post you were replying to was talking about adoption and he is correct in his asessment. Future versions of Windows are years away from wider adoption, and OSS does improove loads faster than MS could ever wish for its own products.
Read again — he didn’t say “released”, he said widely adopted (mainstream).
They actually have 2 OS’s to compete with that general concesus say is better then Microsoft in some way.
You have Linux of course, which is cost effective, open source, and cheap. Offering sub-par apps, but that do the job required so long as you aren’t too picky. This will of course change, although not as quickly as the corporate world did it. Linux has 2 main desktops, 2 completly different programming toolkits. Each task has about 10 different apps that can accomplish it… with all that diversity in apps, there will never be a complete single app for any of the tasks in the open source arena.
Then you have MacOS X. I truely believe OSX is the most technically sound desktop OS available today. Especially not that they have the G5 around. They allow you to run all the Open Source apps if you are cheap. You can also run the industry standard tools, such as MS Office, natively… And worst comes to worst, you can just run Windows in a window… And its provided by Microsoft, so its entirely legit (Virtual PC). I honestly thing this is the reason microsoft is throwing so much money at Longhorn, they have to compete with OSX. An OS that has most drooling. Microsoft is jealous, and I don’t think Longhorn will even compare, no matter what they do.
I think, for the first time in a long time, Microsoft is seriously worrying about there place in the software industry, and I beleive that to be well warrented.
I look forward to seeing what they give us with there next version, as much as I hate Microsoft, it should be very interesting to see what they consider as adequate competition to Linux and OSX.
when wasnt longhorn the ‘bet for the company’? With no new, innovative products for atleast 3 more years, when wasnt longhorn going to be a bet for the company.
What happened to .not anyways? AFAIK it is just a brand name, like the XP series of products.
Why does MSFT have to reach ubiquity to be worthy of interest, and linux or BSD can remain a niche product to be worthy of your desktops.
I for one, want Longhorn, the big fat video card, and Half Life II.
There is something going on outside the terminal fellas!
For a software platform and set of software applications, Microsoft Windows is a considerably pathetic software to run and manage as compared to its free software counterparts, especially for non-commercial endeavours. Lets see, I took an inventory of all the software programs I have installed one my linux system, approximately 200 of them with exception of the kernel, and I conservatively estimated it cost me 200 man hours to install, troubleshout and acquante myself with them, and at absolutely no direct financial cost. {An exagerated assumption of 1 program to 1 hour}
I’m yet to accurately account for all the software applications installed on my Windows XP partition, as I am unaware of any tools that provides such services for Miscrosoft Windows, except to program uninstaller which doesn’t include a bunch of other programs, for example games. But I crudely estimate I have 40 software applications with the exception of the kernel.
I was utterly dumbfounded to discover that I have spent approximately $2000, hardware not included, for the Windows XP software platform. From a commercial standpoint, it is understandable. But from a home user’s perspective, it is absolutely ridiculous. It further becomes a slap in the face when I don’t do anything better, or more productive, in Windows XP than in Linux, with the exception of playing a wider array of games.
It doesn’t end there. The investigation further becomes appauling when I realize it would be almost impossible for me to run all the software programs I run in Linux in Microsoft Windows primarily for financial reasons. Hence, I am less productive in Microsoft Windows, than I am in Linux, again from a home users stand point.
Paying above $2000 for a software platform is not even the issue. The issue is the services and freedom the customer should be provided with after paying thousands of dollars for a given software platform. My expectations are as follows;
1). The given software platform should be sophisticated and advance, and in fact milestones ahead of it’s free software counterparts.
2). The given software platform should operate intelligently and almost flawlessly. (i.e little to no bugs)
3). The software platform should be stable and most have undergone extensive testing. (i.e. it can run until eternity without crashing).
4). The software platform should allow me to make appropriate changes to sooth my needs, even if it means obtaining a special license or permission to alter the source code or fix annoying bugs.
5). The said platform should guarantee my digital privacy and security.
6). The software platform developers should provide free support for their product.
7). I should be more productive on the said platform than it’s free software counterparts.
8). I should operate more efficiently on the said platform than on it’s free software counterparts.
9). I should be pleased with my products.
Based on the expectations I mentioned above, it doesn’t seem Microsoft Windows fits the preferred choice of a rational home user. In fact, it hardly qualifies any of the expectations listed above. But for my girlfriend, I would have promptly reformatted my hard disk, and replaced with my favorite Linux distribution.
I feel deceived and I am ashamed. Yes, it’s sad to see that I have been a victim of my own stupidity especially when there were conspicuous and better alternatives. I followed hype, marketing gimmicks and the bandwagon instead of ration and prudence. As for Longhorn, it’s just another ploy to upgrade your hardware, plus eye-candy to the nth level swimming in ever increasing and complex security vulnerabilities. Good Luck with it, I’ll stick to the “2 dimensional” kernel-2.6 which should provide me with what I need, and much more.
Regards,
Mystilleef
M$ is like a garage shop, they put lot and lot of money into a problem changing all kind of part, but the car continue to not feel right
So, i guess in 2005 i will still use BeOS
there’s certainly nothing special about pc’s these days. i still run a 1ghz p3 for my digital audio workstation and it handles 15 audio tracks with no problem whatsoever. the amd 2.6ghz cpu is $100, $50 for the motherboard, and $40 for the memory. cheap and has more power than anybody can use (short of 3d rendering of movies, i suppose).
what’s so special about any OS these days?!?! nothing.
the same thing is happening with software that has happened with hardware… the OS has matured and anything new won’t be filling some hole of functionality, but simply putting yet another pretty face on the same old paradigm developed at xerox over 20 years ago. microsoft has to compete with its old OS versions more than linux or apple. and both linux and apple have come of age: full multi-tasking, full array of essential apps, and plenty of features that windows lacks.
microsoft isn’t going to add any real features anyway, they’re going to put in DRM, more draconian registration techquines and other such crap which will only piss off consumers when they find out they don’t control their own pc any more.
another new OS? i don’t care. there’s nothing i want to do that many current OS’s can’t do already. for example, i tried XP for my audio workstation but it was actually worse than win2k so i went back to that. for linux i use xandros and i’m very happy with that. mandrake, redhat and suse are all fine too. even lindows 4.0 is looking pretty sharp. i would even consider mac os, if the hardware didn’t cost close to 10x for a comparable system to the amd i mentioned above. and just for email and web surfing beos and os/2 can still handle those tasks. almost forgot to mention bsd. qnx too.
longhorn? 6.8 billion? i don’t care. i know i’m not buying. and with walmart selling pc’s for $200, i’m certain that many others won’t be buying either, now that the microsoft tax has been eliminated on much of the hardware that’s sold.
I took an inventory of all the software programs I have installed one my linux system, approximately 200 of them with exception of the kernel, and I conservatively estimated it cost me 200 man hours to install, troubleshout and acquante myself with them
Have you ever visited the real world? Ever? Those 200 fucking hours of Linux masturbation are 200 times as much as ordinary people would accept. Are you using the OS or is it the other way around?
Ok, you can get xp oem for what? $80? Ok, office… you can use openoffice in linux so why can’t you use it in windows too? Do the $2000 you mention include the games you also mention? that wouldn’t be fair.
I can understand that you like linux (i have arklinux in a 2nd HD too), but you don’t have to spend $2000.
You will be able to pick up longhorn at low cost if you wait for 6-8 months after it comes out, but since everything costs extra on the Microsoft platform, it looks like Linux is going to be a better choice, yet at this time they are more or less evenly matched, but either way, if you are a small business user, Linux works well because of the free servers that come with it, and either Longhorn or Linux will be fine for the home user who doesn’t want anything to do with a database or web server. As far as the new database file systems are concerned, they will be available for both platforms.
Fellow (and I mean ladies as well), OSNews readers people’s comments about Windows and Linux can be compared to the VHS and Betamax wars of the ’80s (I remember Beta tapes), and how the lower quality one (VHS) won the battle in the end because it was marketed better, but was of a lower quality then the Beta equivilent. I hope the IT community can see that the open source market could possibly provide a viable alternative to Windows. This is not an attack at MS or praising Linux, its just my view.
This is all typical “this project is at least three years from delivery” technobabble on the part of Gates. I’ve seen this time and time again from MS and I’ve been in the industry for 20 years. Announce a product 3 years in advance that is really 4 5 years away from completion. Talk about it using broad, vaguely-defined technical terms like “it will make deep use of modeling on the foundation level of the file system and core components”, keep the pundits and columnists happy with screen shots and semi-personalized press releases, and continue dangling that “this is a bet the company move that will change everything” carrot in front of everyone in the industry to prevent them from adopting a currently available and superior alternative. MS patented this tactic. It’s been going on since the early days of DOS development.
It’s the exact opposite of Apple – which chooses not to announce products or comment on product development until said product is two or three months away from shipping. Notice you’ve never heard Apple trying to sell you an OS that won’t be ready until 2005 or talking about featurs that will be in OS11. Microsoft starts selling a product before YEARS EARLY (usually before even having a single line of code) and ALWAYS wins. MS began its life pulling a move like this on IBM with DOS. It continues to pull the same move on the industry with Longhorn. It will continue to do this until the industry wises up to this tactic and starts looking at technology that is available now to solve their needs without waiting for Microsoft’s version.
Those who do not learn from history are doomed to to partner with Microsoft.
1) This looks really good and from what I have heard, Microsoft is hiring another 5000 people world wide.
2) $6.68billion is alot of cash to invest into one product no matter how the anti-Microsoft crowd would love to spin it.
3) The could-a, should-a and would-a crowd have been saying for the last 8 years that Linux is ready for the desktop. In the last 8 years, the desktop share has remained static and the only real sign of progress is on the server front.
For a desktop solution to develop, there needs to be a cohesive development process where by desktops standardise around a core set of specifications instead of bicking over them.
For example, when are the *NIX community finally going to get a unified HIG? unified configuration? unified menu setup? these are things that need to be addressed but unfortunately in the OSS community egos come first before praticality.
4) Regarding software and hardware, it is not Microsofts responsibility to ensure that vendors update their software. If you want to blame someone for your applicaiton not working or malfunctioning, then blame the software vendor you bought it off. These vendors have access to the latest and greated Windows betas and RC’s, if they are too lazy to update their software, send them a clear message and don’t buy their software. Simple as that.
5) Regarding annoucments like this, Microsoft is the only company in the industry that does it. Most companies want to get a working model up and running before running off to the press to talk about their next greatest gizo.
Shawna (IP: —.arcdca.adelphia.net), you are right on the mark. Apple has learnt from their past. Does anyone remember the number of projects that Apple went through within a space of 10 years? each stopping because something didn’t work out? I think Apple has now learnt to wait until they get the core of their future product done before going out and spreading hype because utilimately that is what really hurt them during the 1990s, the continuous promise of a modern operating system for the Mac but failing to deliver which then led people to believe that the Mac had to viable future.
Today, however, the situation is different, the number of Mac shipments has massively increased to the number of computers that IBM sells. The last quarter had a drop because of PowerMac sales. Considering there were rumours regarding the PPC 970, it would be crazy to expect consumers to buy a PowerMac when this information was surfacing.
I too waited to see what the bigger picture was before making my decision.
Anyway, in 2 hours I will be picking up my very first Mac 😉 Being an old time Amiga advocate, I am happy to move back to something that really works for me 😉
I was utterly dumbfounded to discover that I have spent approximately $2000, hardware not included, for the Windows XP software platform.
….
I’ll stick to the “2 dimensional” kernel-2.6 which should provide me with what I need, and much more.
Since you are apparently using Linux/OSS now, it would be interesting to see what apps you paid $2,000 for and which OSS apps you replaced them with.
danlu
Have you ever visited the real world? Ever? Those 200 fucking hours of Linux masturbation are 200 times as much as ordinary people would accept. Are you using the OS or is it the other way around?
True that .. I’d rather just work and pay $2,000 for software if I had to – I’d save much more time than if I spent 200 hours dicking with the OS. Besides, you needn’t spend $2,000 on software, since most of your beloved OSS apps (which you claim are superior) will run on Windows just as well (server software not included).
whatever
microsoft isn’t going to add any real features anyway, they’re going to put in DRM, more draconian registration techquines and other such crap which will only piss off consumers when they find out they don’t control their own pc any more.
Draconian registration? I didn’t even have to register to download product/security updates – which is more than I can say for Redhat Linux.
CooCooCaChoo
4) Regarding software and hardware, it is not Microsofts responsibility to ensure that vendors update their software. If you want to blame someone for your applicaiton not working or malfunctioning, then blame the software vendor you bought it off. These vendors have access to the latest and greated Windows betas and RC’s, if they are too lazy to update their software, send them a clear message and don’t buy their software. Simple as that.
And their hypocrisy amazes me. If you were to point out the lack of hardware support in Linux for a particular device, they would scream that it’s the vendors fault. But if the same happens in Windows, then it’s all Microsoft’s fault .. even though most hardware venddors actually support Windows – when they don’t supply drivers, it’s STILL Microsoft’s fault!!
Anonymous (IP: —.dip.t-dialin.net)
Umm.. it is “rather” unimportant when it will be available. The question is when it will be adopted by world + dog. Today, we hear all these news about server 2003, but in fact loads of people still maintain their NT boxes
Longhorn is a desktop OS, quite different that Windows Server 2003. As soon as Longhorn is released, it will immediately start shipping with new computers – it won’t take long at all to catch on.
and OSS does improove loads faster than MS could ever wish for its own products.
Again, the only thing that’s going to stay stagnent is Windows. Office 2003 will be out in a few months and the other non-MS stuff I use will continue to mature right along with the OSS stuff. You’ll never take marketshare just by having a killer OS. If that were the case, I believe BeOS still exist.
It still amazes me when people spew crap like “Anything you can do in Windows, you can do in Linux except for games!” I mean, what planet are these people from anyway ?
1) This looks really good and from what I have heard, Microsoft is hiring another 5000 people world wide.
Are they going to spend $1,360,000 per developer? Where do I send my resume? I will swear an affidavit taking back all the negative things I’ve said about MS and all the positive things I’ve said about Linux 🙂
2) $6.68billion is alot of cash to invest into one product no matter how the anti-Microsoft crowd would love to spin it.
You just lost 120 million from the budget 🙂
3) The could-a, should-a and would-a crowd have been saying for the last 8 years that Linux is ready for the desktop. In the last 8 years, the desktop share has remained static and the only real sign of progress is on the server front.
Damn it! I should-a knowed that these were mock-up screens: http://www.ximian.com/products/desktop/screenshots.html
For a desktop solution to develop, there needs to be a cohesive development process where by desktops standardise around a core set of specifications instead of bicking over them.
Damn straight! see previous note.
For example, when are the *NIX community finally going to get a unified HIG? unified configuration? unified menu setup? these are things that need to be addressed but unfortunately in the OSS community egos come first before praticality.
I’m just a dumb user – I install RedHat 9, update it, then install Ximian Desktop. I don’t need anything else.
4) Regarding software and hardware, it is not Microsofts responsibility to ensure that vendors update their software. If you want to blame someone for your applicaiton not working or malfunctioning, then blame the software vendor you bought it off. These vendors have access to the latest and greated Windows betas and RC’s, if they are too lazy to update their software, send them a clear message and don’t buy their software. Simple as that.?
Fair one. I would hate to be a vendor being asked to write drivers for my product in Windows 95, 98 WDM, ME WDM, NT 4, 2000 WDM, XP WDM, 2003 WDM, OS X, OS/2 (he he he he), *BSD, Linux, … While someone may say “that is why there can only be one operating system”, look at the list again and you will see that you don’t really want to keep pumping out drivers for microsoft because it will more than double your effort if you want to deliver to all major operating systems.
5) Regarding annoucments like this, Microsoft is the only company in the industry that does it. Most companies want to get a working model up and running before running off to the press to talk about their next greatest gizo.
<cheap shot>It seams to me that they only have a working model up until the first service pack.</cheap shot>
I am putting in a system for a small business. The owners have had limited exposure to Windows and Mac from home systems. I left them with a PC that dual booted RedHat 9 and Windows 2000. They preferred RedHat 9. I built a sample machine for them using RedHat 9 and Ximian Desktop – they absolutely loved it. I showed them Windows XP after. They still preferred Ximian. Hopefully the new version of Windows will finally be ready for the desktop market 🙂
It’s a good thing they didn’t bet the company on .NET
Or did they? I forget….
And their hypocrisy amazes me. If you were to point out the lack of hardware support in Linux for a particular device, they would scream that it’s the vendors fault. But if the same happens in Windows, then it’s all Microsoft’s fault .. even though most hardware venddors actually support Windows – when they don’t supply drivers, it’s STILL Microsoft’s fault!!
Microsoft does work with vendors to produce drivers. The users get irritated if the drivers are not produced in a timely fashion. Since Microsoft is often the key distributors of the drivers, the users get annoyed with Microsoft. Easy to understand.
Drivers for Linux are ofter written by enthusiasts who use hardware specifications to guide them. Often the vendors will not work with the author, nor will they provide any technical specification. The users get upset at the vendor because of the lack of co-operation in producing the drivers. Easy to understand.
Clearly, there are two camps each with a different focus on who is to blame for the drivers not being present or working. I don’t understand where is the hipocrasy and who is being a hypocrit?
To give credit where credit is due there are awesome drivers out there in the Linux world developed by the vendors themselves. For example the nVidia video drivers. Return To Castle Wolfenstein Enemy Territory runs faster and less lag at a higher resolution with all the bells and whistles in Linux than in Windows.
Enthusiasts have also developed brilliant drivers for the QuickCam VC. I can’t run it in Windows XP because there are no drivers, but I can run it in RedHat 9.
Read again — he didn’t say “released”, he said widely adopted (mainstream).
Since longhorn is a desktop OS it will be adopted immediately. Once Longhorn is available most hardware companies will ship it automatically on all new systems. This will deviate some in the workplace but it will certainly be true at home.
Actually I think one of the reasons VHS won was because Beta tapes were a lot shorter in the beginning. Weren’t they 1 hour long? How do you go out for the night and record a two hour movie while you are gone? You can’t!
VHS vs Beta is a perfect example of how people pick ONE single element of a product and use it to argue that one product is better than another. All factors need to be considered.
//It still amazes me when people spew crap like “Anything you can do in Windows, you can do in Linux except for games!” I mean, what planet are these people from anyway?//
What can’t you do? I haven’t had an issue yet with finding a program that I needed and it is usually superior. Rox filer, irssi, and sylpheed have all been faster and more efficient for me. MozillaFirebird and Gaim (both also available for Windows) are both superior in terms of features as compared to their Microsoft counterparts. I guess it all depends on what you want to do with your computer. By the way, Linux also has a great C/C++ IDE in Kdevelop and a far superior burning program in K3B. I almost forgot MPlayer, which has played everything I threw at it. I don’t doubt the possiblity that you may be able to do something on Windows that you can’t do on Linux, but what? I don’t think most users would really notice any lack of software.
“chief software architect Bill Gates” – I like like like this!!! Did I say LIKE??? oh…
Bill Gates also known as evil, GOD, and ThE Anticrist!!!
Its nice to know that in the future I will be able to sleep tight and feel secure because of Trust worthy computing…
Microsoft does work with vendors to produce drivers. The users get irritated if the drivers are not produced in a timely fashion. Since Microsoft is often the key distributors of the drivers, the users get annoyed with Microsoft. Easy to understand.
AFAIK, MS will distribute with the OS whatever driver the vendor provides, but it is still up to the vendor to write the actual driver, is it not?
MozillaFirebird and Gaim (both also available for Windows) are both superior in terms of features as compared to their Microsoft counterparts.
What difference does that make when they’re both available for Windows?
I don’t doubt the possiblity that you may be able to do something on Windows that you can’t do on Linux, but what? I don’t think most users would really notice any lack of software.
I don’t have time to make a complete list but my top three are 1) an audio editor on par with Cool Edit Pro (Audacity? Get real.) 2) A patch editor for my Roland XV-5050 synth module 3) Map software to replace MS Streets & Trips 2003 (one that can download maps to a Pocket PC).
Well, I dunno for sure that these don’t exist in Linux, but I haven’t found anything yet
And yeah, I know … these are niche applications. 98% of people out there just browse the web and write letters, so Linux is perfect for them.
3) The could-a, should-a and would-a crowd have been saying for the last 8 years that Linux is ready for the desktop. In the last 8 years, the desktop share has remained static and the only real sign of progress is on the server front.
I not sure what are you talking about but Im using Linux as my main desktop and I can do the same I could do in a Windows machine, I’ve been testing linux distros since Mandrake 7 and every new versions is getting close to be a great desktop option, try ARK linux, JAMD Linux, even Lindows and you’ll see what Im talking about.
According to the Financials at biz.yahoo.com, M$ spends more on R&D than IBM, HP and SUN despite the first two having gross revenues double or triple that of Microsoft.
In fact, their gross revenue and R&D spending is a good match for the Pfizer Drug company. Is it just me or does that strike you all as being a bit hard to swallow?
Writing software is considered R&D for a software company. You’re “designing the product” after all…..
That doesn’t explain why their R&D spending is so much higher than the companies I named. They all manufacture software and operating systems.
I don’t have time to make a complete list but my top three are 1) an audio editor on par with Cool Edit Pro (Audacity? Get real.)
Something like this?
http://ardour.sourceforge.net/editor.png
You might wanna check
http://loll.sourceforge.net/linux/links/Audio-Video/
I don’t know any map software, but probably someone will write one sooner or later. Windows has been around as desktop OS for 10+ years. That’s one of the primary reasons there are more apps available for Win. Linux is young (esp. desktop market). It’s still growing up.
“Lets see, I took an inventory of all the software programs I have installed one my linux system, approximately 200 of them with exception of the kernel, and I conservatively estimated it cost me 200 man hours to install, troubleshout and acquante myself with them, and at absolutely no direct financial cost.”
I think it is unfair, slimy and cynical to partially quote me, and do so out of context. Especially after I had stated my estimations were conservative and demonstrated the reason behind my exagerated assumptions which I’ll quote below.
{An exagerated assumption of 1 program to 1 hour},
My critics intentionally over looked my assumptions, selected the phrase they thought will give them an easy advantage regarding the discussions, and proceeded to advertently quote me out of context.
I’ll be kind enough to offer a reply. Any software program you acquire, commercial, non-commercial, free or proprietary, has an associated learning curve to it. And this is true for all software platforms irrespective of its developers or how much you pay for it. Moreover, I did not sit down one week and decide to install 200 hundred free software applications and 40 proprietary ones. No, thank you, I have a life. These were or are unconscious decisions I’ve made over the course of using both platforms, measured in years and months.
So again your erroneous assumptions that I sat down one day to install, test, use and compare 200 free software applications against 40 propreitary ones are rendered null and void. On average, your Microsoft windows proprietary software cost anything from $9.99 to $200.00 per software application. Keep in mind, this is for a single license. For other forms of licenses it does exponentially increase. I’m not even going to mention the professional editions of this software platform, which probably has one or two additional feature to than the standard or home edition doesn’t for no valid reasons. The professional editions are always more expensive, sometime twice the cost.
Either way you look at it, from a home users perspective, Microsoft Windows and the software platform, in general, is a pathetic one for one I pay so much for, money and man hour wise. Home computing should be both fun and productive. In the Windows world I wanted to do so much, as a computer enthusiast, but I had always been restricted, cheated, bound by an unfair contracts, forced to upgrade, forced to update and forced to give up my online rights, privacy and security.
In Linux, my freedom is duly enforced. I am in control of my privacy, security and tools. The next kernel version and tools wouldn’t force me to update and upgrade, and I am bound by a very wicked contract, the freedom to do as I will with my given tools. In fact, even I had to spend 3million man hours obtain the latter, I will.
Regards,
Mystilleef
Windoze people are puppets for Bill Goat
“which will link incoming phone calls to a relevant contact in outlook…”
interesting, you must mean something like this http://www.nat.org/dashboard
“Also DirectX animation of window environment and much eye candy.”
Rather enticing, maybe something like this, http://www.cuddletech.com/e17/index.html
>Windoze people are puppets for Bill Goat
bill goat. love it. i’ve never heard that attributed to him, but it sure fits.
here’s mine: winhosed sheeple are bj’s for billy bux.
on your knees, you nasty thing. suck. suck. suck.
anyone else care to add one?
catch the wave.
If they could somehow speed up windows update, that would be a miracle. It takes hours and hours to install an update on the Microsoft platform. I can’t believe that more people don’t complain. I guess that there is just too many things to complain about.
By the time Longhorn becomes mainstream (4-5 years!) OSS – especially Linux – will have become almost ubiquitous and be of incredibly high quality.</I
yeah yeah…I’ve heard that before. The linux community is really united enough to come up with something that will be familiar enough and easy enough for the average person to use it. I have been hearing the same claim that you just made for the past seven years with an outlook of 3 years. Well it hasn’t happened, and it will not happen until you have a uniform file structure (SuSE put things in places that are different than RedHat and the Apache web server is set up in the documentation to have your web site in one path but the config files are targeting a different one)
It confuses the shit out of the typical user to have to deal with something that does not work out of the box. When a configuration is required it turns people off…and many walk away thinking that the product just doesn’t work, not that it needs to be configured.
I think OSS is great…I love what Ximian did with XD2, but most people are not going to want the ball of confusion that surrounds a Linux config and who really RTFM unless they are Linux noobs.
It will have to be something amazing to convince people to carry on spending like they have been doing over recent years. I’ve a feeling this is not going to be the cash cow previous Windows/Office products have proved to be.
[i]It will have to be something amazing to convince people to carry on spending like they have been doing over recent years. I’ve a feeling this is not going to be the cash cow previous Windows/Office products have proved to be.
I am not sure how true or false this statement is. I still run into dumbasses that think Win95 is great stuff. Also, the same comment was made about XP…yet it sold and continues to sell. Microsoft is really good at forcing an upgrade path on people. Keep that in mind. You are right that they will have to make some gizmo in it that is neat then convince the masses of Macroshaft sheep that they must upgrade or their computer will start deleting their files.
I myself have had enough of the Macroshaft crap and don’t think I want to have to work with Linux configs to do something I need to do…I am dumping PCs and heading to a Mac OS X machine. And if I feel like changing who it operates…then I could alter the config files…I just don’t have to do any work.
with every new version of windows, they support less and less hardware and software…
with every new version of linux, they support more and more hardware and software…
I have no sound with Windows 2003 server
I have no Web Cam with Windows XP
I have no PhotoShop with Windows 2000
On the other hand, they all work fine with a shiney new RedHat 9 🙂
Soon we will see Windows 2010 – it supports no hardware or software, but the Windows user community is raving about it!
Sounds like horse shit.
They actually have 2 OS’s to compete with that general concesus say is better then Microsoft in some way.
You have Linux of course, which is cost effective, open source, and cheap. Offering sub-par apps, but that do the job required so long as you aren’t too picky. This will of course change, although not as quickly as the corporate world did it. Linux has 2 main desktops, 2 completly different programming toolkits. Each task has about 10 different apps that can accomplish it… with all that diversity in apps, there will never be a complete single app for any of the tasks in the open source arena.
Then you have MacOS X. I truely believe OSX is the most technically sound desktop OS available today. Especially not that they have the G5 around. They allow you to run all the Open Source apps if you are cheap. You can also run the industry standard tools, such as MS Office, natively… And worst comes to worst, you can just run Windows in a window… And its provided by Microsoft, so its entirely legit (Virtual PC). I honestly thing this is the reason microsoft is throwing so much money at Longhorn, they have to compete with OSX. An OS that has most drooling. Microsoft is jealous, and I don’t think Longhorn will even compare, no matter what they do.
I think, for the first time in a long time, Microsoft is seriously worrying about there place in the software industry, and I beleive that to be well warrented.
I look forward to seeing what they give us with there next version, as much as I hate Microsoft, it should be very interesting to see what they consider as adequate competition to Linux and OSX.
Agreed…particularly with OS X. Linux has a lot of maturing to go through in order for the user experience to be oriented toward the typical user and not the geek or completely broke crowd.
Microsoft keeps saying that Linux poses a threat. I think they are trying to draw attention toward Linux, knowing many will be frustrated by it and immediately go back to Windows. Microsoft isn’t really worried about Linux…they are worried about OS X. I know lots of long time, hard boiled pc users (both Linux and Windows) (many of whom are sys admins) who are dumping PCs because Windows is Windows, Linux is an inconsistent setup hastle, and OS X just does everything and very very smoothly.
Privacy concerns will kill LH
The same was said of XP and the product activation. I do know that I will likely not upgrade (course you could think of it as a downgrade) my XP systems to Longhorn.
…linux or BSD can remain a niche product to be worthy of your desktops.
Is that a joke? There is no way in hell that Linux is ready for the desktop unless you are used to changing config files, compiling software, etc., or you are only interested in surfing the web and will never actually install or otherwise touch any system setting anywhere.
I for one, want Longhorn, the big fat video card, and Half Life II.
Hmmm…ok…suit yourself. I am sick of MS and their forced upgrades…but you go ahead and give them your money.
There is something going on outside the terminal fellas!
Yes…but there is a lot more than Windows and PCs.
Wasn’t there another player in the video front? What about Philips? Didn’t they loose the battle with their technically superior Video2000?
And why was that? Right, because the posh Philips did not want porn to be distributed via it’s system. It didn’t matter to Sony.
VHS has nothing to do with OS’s.
I think Microsoft’s biggest enemy is himself. The Google search statistics suggests 32% of Windows users are still running Win98, and another 27% running Windows 2000/NT/95, while Windows XP users have jumped to 33% recently. For most part, most applications can run well under Windows 98/2000. And a lot of people are still doing fine with Office 2000.
According to what we know in many preview/article in press, I believe Windows Longhorn will break a lot of applications with incompatibilities, but probably will get around it with emulation technology which Microsoft have acquired from Connectix. Still if the vision is to build a “bigger” OS in terms of more functions and features, I think it will in the end become too difficult to manage in a project management point of view. I rather want to see Microsoft developing more and different types of software. To figure out whatever ways to make people upgrade isn’t a very sound business model to me, and seeing the open source progress in 2002/3, I think Microsoft better build really good stuff in their future products otherwise they will begin to lose more and more customers (and further increase licensing costs to offset those loss :-p ) like me
and many others in the future, especially for people outside US where they can’t (or don’t want to) afford to upgrade again and again.
“According to what we know in many preview/article in press, I believe Windows Longhorn will break a lot of applications with incompatibilities, but probably will get around it with emulation technology which Microsoft have acquired from Connectix.”
I’m not sure wether you are right there or not. A lot of people feared XP as well when it came to compatibility. It was fuss over (almost) nothing; XP did kinda well on older apps.
Funny, noone here questions about MDA, which is the center of the article. The main key idea in this technology is “cross architecture” : you design a program with it, and the implementation details and specifics should be taken care of by wizards and code generators.
The obvious questions :
– Does that means less MS lock-in ?
– Is this a move to make the whole system more secure (leaving the code generation to backend generators) ?
– Or is it just the buzzword of the day, to make MS stock rise a bit ?
Microsoft isn’t really worried about Linux…they are worried about OS X. I know lots of long time, hard boiled pc users (both Linux and Windows) (many of whom are sys admins) who are dumping PCs because Windows is Windows, Linux is an inconsistent setup hastle, and OS X just does everything and very very smoothly.
to quote you:
“Sounds like horse shit.“
Is that a joke? There is no way in hell that Linux is ready for the desktop unless you are used to changing config files, compiling software, etc.
Get an RPM based distro and you wont have to compile anything, let go the fear and just try it.
In some ways it is getting easier to install software on Linux with tools like Synaptic, ignorant people who doesnt even botter to try Linux but they do botter in talk about something they dont event know.
Do you think Apple and MS is diffrent company?
They tests every new technology with Apple, and if works and put that to thier product…
And do you think that MS worries about Linux?
Do you know MS is biggest sponsor of FreeBSD?
If MS thinks that Linux makes money, They will take
FreeBSD.
Sorry guys…. this is so true
“REDMOND, Wash. (DOW JONES)–Microsoft Corp. will spend about $6.8 billion on research and development in its new fiscal year, an increase of 8% from the previous 12 months, said Chairman Bill Gates.”
Probably it will mostly be spent figuring out how to break into (no pun intended) new markets. For example, governments. The United States of Microsoft has a catchy ring, don’t you think? Using OSS will become a “terrorist” activity, obviously. How much of that $6.8 billion is going into campaign contribution “research”?
>…what makes you think MS products won’t improve as well….
Well… I don’t know about you, but I’ve been waiting for about ten years so far and their products still suck. I don’t care if you like Windows or not, if you won’t admit that it sucks then you have blinders on (those things that allow horses to only see in one direction). If you are looking forward to Longhorn, you obviously find your current version deficient and see no alternatives.
>It’s a good thing they didn’t bet the company on .NET
>Or did they? I forget….
Well, that’s what they said but we don’t really have any proof.
>is ready for the desktop unless you are used to changing config files
On this note, I’d like to mention that I found it a heck of a lot easier to edit autoexec.bat, config.sys, protocol.ini , system.ini, net.cfg, etc. than to go through the frustration of dealing with a stupid wizard that asks me questions that have no correct answer related to what I am trying to achieve.
For example, when networking two XP machines together there is nothing I am doing related to the internet, why do I have to answer questions about something irrelevant to the task? Why does it take me two minutes to connect two NT machines, but twenty minutes to connect two XP machines? XP might be easier if I had never seen a computer before, but I was using CP/M in 1981 and many platform since and XP is the most difficult to use “Operating System” I have yet encountered.
What Microsoft is doing with Windows what the major auto makers did with cars. I used to be able to grab a few wrenches and a screwdriver to perform simple repairs. Now, I need a bunch of diagnostic equipment just to figure out what the problem is. Don’t put guages in front of me, just a red light. Maybe I might just as well just go out and buy a new one. OSS OSes allow you to fix whatever you need to and the tools are even free.
I use Jaguar 10.2 and I can not fathom how people can want to use Windows after seeing 10.2, but I think that OS X does not threaten Microsoft at all. I think Microsoft is just more embrassed by OS X. Users look at OS X and ask why Microsoft, a company several times bigger than Apple can not put out something of equal quality. Microsoft is putting so much effort into Longhorn to keep it good enough for most people. Because once people realize how crappy Windows is, they will go looking for something else. Most of the time it won’t end up being a Mac, but it won’t be Windows
Do you think Apple and MS is diffrent company?
They tests every new technology with Apple, and if works and put that to thier product…
And do you think that MS worries about Linux?
Do you know MS is biggest sponsor of FreeBSD?
If MS thinks that Linux makes money, They will take
FreeBSD.
Sorry guys…. this is so true
What are you talking about?
I mean, I have seen some stuff posted here that stretches the imagination and the bounds of truth (not to mention spelling and grammar), but this is just way out.
Of course if you mean that MS uses Apple as their R&D branch and just rips off their ideas… well then I agree.
>even more [software broke] with windows 2003 server.
Who would run Photoshop or other desktop software on w2003?
Based on what I’ve heard:
Printed books
I’m not sure, but weren’t there a lot of porn in the early mass produced pocket books? If so, it probably drove the technology further and made the costs of printing books lower as the volume increased.
Video
In the beginning, the selection was poor. When people bought more machines, the market grew, and they got a better choice. The reason why so many bought the machines in the beginning, was the availabillity of porn. One reason often given for the victory of VHS video tapes over the Beta format is that Beta refused to let their tapes be used for pornography.
Internet
The internet really took off when the newspapers reported all the available porn
Linux
Looks like they could learn from history? Windows has everything that Linux has, except… Make it the porn platform of choice, and more people will buy it. When the games/software industry sees that Linux has a large market share, they will port their regular software to Linux 🙂
Microsoft keeps saying that Linux poses a threat. I think they are trying to draw attention toward Linux, knowing many will be frustrated by it and immediately go back to Windows. Microsoft isn’t really worried about Linux…they are worried about OS X
Linux is a threat because it runs on x86. you know, the existing hardware people have that runs windows.
Why would OS X be a threat ? You have any idea what a switch to OS X is like for a windows user who has been using windows for years ?
Its expensive and time consuming. Dropping Windows Server installations (esp. IIS) for Linux with Apache is quite easy and thats what scares MS in regards to Linux.
MS is afraid of Linux in the server market. They are also afraid that one day it will be a contender to Windows on the desktop.
>It’s a good thing they didn’t bet the company on .NET
>Or did they? I forget….
Well, that’s what they said but we don’t really have any proof.
VS.NET ??? MS is pushing a development platform and that is what they are banking on. .net as it was marketed to consumers died but .net itself is still very much alive and thriving. Its a development platform.
Alive and thriving? Well… maybe in a SARS virus sort of way.