CNET News.com’s Charles Cooper says the “end of Microsoft as we know it” crowd must face the post-antitrust reality that the company is confident and stronger than ever.
Guess What? Microsoft Won
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Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
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Microsoft is not stronger than before, perhaps bolder. MS is for the first time in years under assault by legitimate contenders. The main one is of course linux and MS clearly feels the heat, hence the SCO nonesense. Apple is the second one and while they are not all that much of a threat yet its clear they are gearing up to become one.
Linux is not a legitmate contender for the vast majority of the Microsoft market, which is desktop systems. Linux is only a contender on the server market.
And Apple is not a serious contender either, and never will be until they learn that you can’t sell a personal computer with no monitor for $2,000 in today’s market. Not when their PC competitors are offering similar systems for $500 with a 17 inch monitor included.
don’t think so huh then why all the sudden legal attacks on linux. Linux is a threat upon the server today and posed to become one on the corporate desktop. IBMs support pretty much seals that deal but other IT firms are following
As for apple. Please look at the price of the current G4 Power MAC. It is $1299. Apple will get to the lower prices. Its just a matter of time. The have been doing it already in increments.
Rome was not built in one day and the monopoly that is MS will not be destroyed in one. But that monopoly is coming down. I give it five years before MS is down to 60% or lower of the desktop segment (shipments not installed base)
Any geek worth his beans that knows how to study legal decisions and their effects would’ve quickly realized that Microsoft recieved more of a pat on the back than a legal beating for what they’ve done. All the settlement did was tell them don’t do it again, and have them do things that have little effect on their computer industry grip. They were not punished in any half-significant fashion which would tell them “Don’t do it again, OR you will be punished more severely.”
Listening to the executives at Microsoft talk about all this “role model” stuff is getting tiring, you’d think the execs had become born-again Christians and were walking around door-to-door to profess their new faith and character. Microsoft needs to realize that unless they actually take some real steps to repair the bridges between the customers and consumers they’ve isolated, those bridges will never be gapped.
Mr. Cooper, as usual, is correct. Whether we like it or not.
M$ profits are soaring, they made 1.92 BILLION in profit in the last QUARTER, read this article for more astronomical details:
http://www.couriermail.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5936,6771538…
The civil war raging within the *nix family is only making them stronger. Your only chance to beat them is to knock off their desktop dominance, the ultimate cash cow of software sales. Only Apple offers a full featured, robust and user friendly alternative, too bad it’s not used more.
While i agree with Ryan i would like to point out that with each court case MS wins it becomes a realilty, but will it?
MS’s case with Intertrust could be devasting and could kill them IF Intertrust DON’T settle out of court and go the whole way, thereby stopping windows being sold and Office as well due to patent infringment.
GNU/Linux and OSX updates come quicker than Windows, their rate of development is faster and their capabilites as OS’es grow all the time while windows users have to wait once every 3 years due to MS’es product cycle and with their rule of not adding features in service packs.
Lets not forget MS is its own worse enemy with regard to pricing and lisencing, everytime they do this Linux is the more cheaper secure option. OSX is picking off windows users in its repective markets as well.
Also what is a company to do when its satured its own market? It cannot get any bigger but Linux and OSX have a huge potential market knocking at their door, everybody is practically a customer. MS has to keep its customers as it cannot gain many more while its the opposite of the competitors.
Anyway what is a company to do when its satured its own markets? Find new ones of course, but everything outside windows and Office is practically a failure and taking a loss, Xbox sales are nothing, MS’es smartphone is nowhere hardly since the phone companies won’t touch it and any new ventures MS makes is questioned as being useful, for example its move to market watches as information hubs for people on the move! Er..what are PDA’s for?
No real innovation is coming from them other than the usual copy cat tactics, for example the development of their own quartz graphical system. Why do this when Apple is nothing and not a huge threat to them when weighing it against the benefits of implementing this sort of technology other than to take up CPU cycles? Windows server 2003 is hardly a innovative product, still insecure and expensive when compared to linux. Linux is seen as taking the rest of the server market from MS through the upgrading of UNIX servers, its mature enough now to be able to do this and due to its similarity its an easier transition.
Its gonna take time but Ryan is right and MS won’t go without a huge fight.
“don’t think so huh then why all the sudden legal attacks on linux. Linux is a threat upon the server today and posed to become one on the corporate desktop.”
The legal attacks are from SCO, which of course, is majorly threatened by Linux, as are all other commercial UNIX vendors. But Linux isn’t that big of a threat to Windows. And Linux people have been saying that it is posed to become a threat on the corporate desktop for about 5 years. That’s starting to get a little old and is along the lines of the evangelists screaming that Jesus is returning soon. Guess what? Neitehr one is happening.
“As for apple. Please look at the price of the current G4 Power MAC. It is $1299. Apple will get to the lower prices. Its just a matter of time. The have been doing it already in increments.”
Sure. For a 1.25 Ghz system. Add a monitor onto that and it is three times more expensive than a 2.4 Ghz system I can buy from Dell. And I can gurantee you that the 2.4 Ghz P4 will run circles around the 1.25 Ghz G4.
Linux is viable for desktop use (for example, take the bargain basement PCs that Walmart is selling) and is becoming an increasingly appealing alternative for corporations, especially engineering firms.
Your assessment of Apple is FUD because eMacs are available for $800 (yes, that includes a 17″ CRT) and there are refurbished ones for even less. People interested in towers are professionals interested in extremely high performance and expandability, for which the G5 fits the bill. In order to match the performance and extras that the G5 includes, PCs become just as, if not more so, expensive.
Your arguments are old and weak. There are competitors and the only reason they are behind is because of the ignorant consumer buying up the special of the week (which may eventually lend to Linux taking a stronger hold as PCs like Walmart has started selling become more common) and ignoring real performance factors and ease of use. Apple is also taking hold with geeks due to now sweet hardware and an easy to use Unix core. It’s just a matter of time until Microsoft is chipped away at.
Microsoft can not win because there is no victory without freedom. They are dictators and the more money they have, the worse it is for everyone. The only time Microsoft will win is when the empire burns down.
MS’s case with Intertrust could be devasting and could kill them
This is the exact kind of mindframe Mr. Cooper is lamenting. Intertrust licensed their patents to Sony for $28 Million. Sony then bought them, and hopes to get more money out of them than they already excepted, but fair market value has already been determined, and is hardly anything for M$ to worry about. I don’t think the extremely knowledgable Mr. Cooper even mentioned it at all, did he?
http://www.aspnews.com/news/article/0,,4191_1143761,00.html
Mr Cooper is full of it and totally uninformed.
“Your assessment of Apple is FUD because eMacs are available for $800 (yes, that includes a 17″ CRT) and there are refurbished ones for even less.”
Which is still $300 more expensive than a PC from Dell that will run circles around the eMac.
“People interested in towers are professionals interested in extremely high performance and expandability, for which the G5 fits the bill.”
They are? Hmm… All the PC vendors sure seem to do a good business of selling towers to home users and such.
“In order to match the performance and extras that the G5 includes, PCs become just as, if not more so, expensive.”
Ah… That old argument. I’ve had a ton of Apple users tell me that. I’ve yet to find one who I cannot prove wrong with a quick visit to Dell and a configuration of a system equivalent to the Mac they have in mind.
“There are competitors and the only reason they are behind is because of the ignorant consumer buying up the special of the week (which may eventually lend to Linux taking a stronger hold as PCs like Walmart has started selling become more common) and ignoring real performance factors and ease of use.”
No… They are behind because they are overpriced. And who is ignoring performance factors? Fact: The Dell 2.4 Ghz $500 system will waste the $800 eMac. And as far as 64 bits on the G5, it won’t benefit most home users anyway. It won’t benefit most business users for that matter.
Linux is viable for desktop use (for example, take the bargain basement PCs that Walmart is selling)
Really? I’ve been to five Walmart SuperCenters, and haven’t seen a one available. That Sony PC they’re selling with flatscreen and DVD-R (Windows XP) is pretty sweet though.
give them 10 more years and they will be embroiled in another Anti-trust mess.
There are competitors and the only reason they are behind is because of the ignorant consumer buying up the special of the week…
Exactly right. Computer nerds are cheap. They prefer ‘free’ even if it is crap.
We prefer free because a certain class of software is high quality when free. Like programmer tools and basic infrastructure. When it’s not high-quality, we can build tools with our knowledge to correct the deficiencies of the platform, in reasonably cost-effective way.
Even when we “waste” time, we generally learn something that allows us to compete for jobs in different markets or raise our prices.
We prefer free because a certain class of software is high quality when free. Like programmer tools and basic infrastructure…
Sorry, you kind of lost me there. You mean like Sun One, or IBM Websphere? Novell eDirectory perhaps? M$ products .NET or Active Directory? Sorry, but none of those are free, and there is nothing available for free that is anywhere near as capable.
And it usually takes a profitable business to buy software like that, home hackers rarely if ever do. They instead pick one of the 80 million freeware versions that make them do all the hard stuff manually, but make them feel so much smarter.
Exactly right. Computer nerds are cheap. They prefer ‘free’ even if it is crap.
That’s really harsh. You don’t seem to understand the OSS movement. Sure, many OSS software are of a poor quality, but they’ll never improve if nobody is using them, don’t you think?
I don’t think it’s possible to keep making money off something like software. Eventually, a free alternative is going to reach the point where it is undeniably equal to or better than a company’s product in every aspect. Eventually, software will be developed to take care of compatibility / legacy problems. At that point, there’s no reason to pay for software when there’s an at least equally good alternative.
It’s not amazingly likely to happen any time soon, but at some point down the road, we’ll reach this point. Kind of inevitable. I mean, software can only be so good. What happens when we reach the limits of how good it can all be? We go with the free option. Why pay for the same thing?
Still, I think there will be jobs for software engineers. There are just too many facets of computing to completely kill such a job market.
That’s really harsh.
Sorry, I so easily forget there are a couple of other knowledgable and respectful posters out there like yourself, with all the incredible BS thrown at me on this site.
Sure, many OSS software are of a poor quality, but they’ll never improve if nobody is using them, don’t you think?
Sorry but I have no compassion for their plight, which is obviously self fulfilling. I would however be more understanding if they were willing to take OSS and better apply it to the ‘games’ or ‘educational’ markets, where even the commercial software is crap, and help cut us some breaks on those overpriced items instead.
Macs are as cheap as a Dell? Linux will take over the desktop? another lawsuit?
Really!
Simple fact – Microsoft is sitting on CASH reserves of $50 BILLION.
Any concept ppl, of what that means?
Here’s a clue, the 2002 GDP of the Czech Republic was $58 billion.
Only if everyone in the world stopped buying Microsoft product NOW, would there be much hope for the future.
I don’t think it’s possible to keep making money off something like software.
Ok, do you not realize that M$ is the largest market cap (multiply # of shares times value) company in the US, i.e. world? They also have $50 Billion in petty cash, easily the most. I am not sitting here boasting about M$. I am simply pointing out that you said you “don’t think it’s possible to keep making money off something like software.”
Eventually, a free alternative is going to reach the point where it is undeniably equal to or better than a company’s product in every aspect…I mean, software can only be so good.
Why is that? Because ‘free’ software will have better facilities, and be able to hire the brightest minds? ‘Free’ software will have newer and faster systems, and connectivity? ‘Free’ software will have more advertising, or more political lobbying? ‘Free’ software will finally be unified, instead of fractured into 8 different versions of their primary O/S? Just wondering.
What thinking people like rms in the open source movement wanted from the anti-trust trial was not the break of MS. It was the forced royalty free opening up of the Windows API’s and the enforced opening of the MS Office formats. Well we didn’t get it the judge giving MS royalty based licensing of the API’s (Even more money for MS and no way open source developers can get the API’s) and nothing on the MS formats.
Still its no major disaster MS is being slowly chipped away by what GNU/Linux is good at rapid evolution of reliable software. MS has survived the DoJ in spite of being a convicted illegal monopoly – I guess if you pay off the right people. But it won’t survive the market – because now one of its defences it the court case has become true it faces real competition from Linux and FLOSS.
I use both MS and Linux side-by-side – I love them both, but each for very different reasons. I think there’s room in this world for both. You don’t like Windows? Fine, don’t use it. If you feel Linux is a superior alternative and that it lacks for nothing (as some would claim), then why can’t we all just get along?
MS is being slowly chipped away by what GNU/Linux…
Who in the world is telling you this stuff. Did you not read the article? Here’s another…
http://www.esj.com/enterprise/article.asp?EditorialsID=576
Sales of Microsoft’s Windows-based server operating system increased by 10 percent in Q1 2003, tallying $3.2 billion. Linux-related revenues exploded by 35 percent, topping off at $583 million.
According to that, M$ Windows “server” alone had almost as much dollar growth as all “linux-related revenues” had altogether. And if you read that whole article (based on IDC report), it mainly describes how Linux growth has come almost completely at the expense of Unix, not M$.
“and be able to hire the brightest minds? ‘Free’ software will have newer and faster systems,”
Exactly – The brightest minds just volunteer – many will continue to make valuble contributions on a volunteer basis. The very brightest will end up in jobs that pay them just to work on open source software. Torvalds and Morton work for the OSDL, Alan Cox works for Red Hat, most of the lead developers on Apache now work for IBM and key developers on the Samba project work for HP. IBM is hiring more developers to work on Linux for Power 4, The key OpenOffice hackers work for Sun.
As for the the newest and fastest systems – There is the OSDL look at it sponsors all of the major computer hardware companies in the world except Sun. On top of that there are the Linux development labs at IBM, HP and Dell. You just don’t realize just how integrated Linux is into the development of computer systems by the big multinational hardware companies (so don’t come any of this Linux is communist crap). Linux was running on both the Itanium (on a box Intel had delivered to Linus’s office at Transmeta) and Opteron 64 bit processors before Windows.
No MS just can’t keep up – what you must understand no one in the computer industry wants microsoft except microsoft. Evey other company is fighting to be independant of it.
If you feel Linux is a superior alternative and that it lacks for nothing (as some would claim), then why can’t we all just get along?
I truly wish we could. But it’s simply a cultural difference. In many different ways.
I belong to the side of those who respect the accomplishments of others, who believe in the rights of property, and who feel the ‘American dream’ is best achieved through capitalistic means. I also only trust those that have earned it, and know the most basic laws of nature such as “no meals are free”.
You will find many on the internet that are more ‘ideological’ as someone on here put it the other day, but ideology is a false promise, that leaves it’s persueor on a lifelong empty chase.
I’m still waiting for a linux browser to be as fast as IE … and no Dillo doesn’t count.
The big problem for linux on the desktop is that MS isn’t just sitting on their hands waiting for the free software developers to catch up to them. A misconception among zealots is that because “anybody” can contribute to Gnome or KDE that they will eventually catch up to the windows desktop. Sorry to burst your bubble linux fanboys but there are many, many smart people at MS and just because some 16 year old punk has access to gnome or KDE sourcecode doesn’t mean that they’re going to catch up.
Oh…and for the clown that thought “given enough time Apple could be a threat to MS”…bahahaah, ROFL.
Some of you people wish so hard for the downfall of MS that you become completely irrational.
what you must understand no one in the computer industry wants microsoft except microsoft. Evey other company is fighting to be independant of it.
And what you must understand is that it doesn’t really matter what “others in the computer industry” want. The desktop is still king and 95%+ of consumers are happy with what MS provides them.
Mr. Cooper, as usual, is correct.
Mr. Cooper has a strong pro-microsoft bias. Having one yourself, it’s only natural that you see him as the paragon of objectivity and an authority on the matter.
Most of us see him for what he really is: a MS hired gun spreading FUD for advertising revenue on CNET. A good role model for you, I guess.
But Linux isn’t that big of a threat to Windows.
According to Microsoft, Linux is the number 2 threat right now. I’d say that’s pretty high up on the scale, wouldn’t you?
[i]”Sales of Microsoft’s Windows-based server operating system increased by 10 percent in Q1 2003, tallying $3.2 billion. Linux-related revenues exploded by 35 percent, topping off at $583 million.”<i/>
Exactly Linux server sales are growing a lot faster than Windows. Futher more that figure is only for sales of servers with Linux preloaded . Much of the new Linux installed base is coming from Servers delivered without an OS installed. Dell and the the other computer manufacturers will sell you a Server box without an OS installed (unlike with desktops) – the vast majority of these boxes will have Linux installed on them and its a lot of boxes (you know big server farms like google).
In addition it doesn’t count all the old windows boxes that get wiped and have Linux put on them (no more upgrade money for MS).
No my friend MS is not only losing the server war – it has already lost it.
Top Speed you are living in dreamland
I DO think that InterTrust has A LOT to say about Microsoft’s future success just as SCO has a lot to say
about Linux’s. Despite what they say on their website I really don’t think that InterTrust is is any more ready to settle amically than SCO is. Sun Solaris or downgrade to Win 98 abybody ;-).
First you write this:
I belong to the side of those who respect the accomplishments of others, who believe in the rights of property, and who feel the ‘American dream’ is best achieved through capitalistic means. I also only trust those that have earned it, and know the most basic laws of nature such as “no meals are free”.
and then you say this:
ideology is a false promise, that leaves it’s persueor on a lifelong empty chase.
Huh, dude…half of that first paragraph is 100% ideology. Granted, it’s right-wing ideology, but ideology nonetheless.
The problem I’ve found with monopolys is that they end up becoming blindsided by their own arrogance. The railroads were blindsided by airlines. Computers eclipsed typewriters. Every market evolves. Microsoft has chosen it’s own grave by it’s monopolists tactics. The Monopolist does not innovate. The Monopolist does not expand. The Monopolist does not take risks. And as a result, the Monopolist is doomed when the market changes.
The desktop is still king and 95%+ of consumers are happy with what MS provides them.
Funny, most of what I hear from people who use Windows PCs is complaints about how things don’t work like they ought to. Granted, the problem is often between the chair and the desk, but still, saying that 95%+ of consumers are happy with what MS provides them is a pretty groundless statement. I think “manage to work with it” is a better choice of words…
“And what you must understand is that it doesn’t really matter what “others in the computer industry” want. The desktop is still king and 95%+ of consumers are happy with what MS provides them.”
What you don’t undertand is that Linux for the desktop at present is not primarily tatrgeted at the joe public consumer. It is being targeted at the level of large organizations ie corporate and governmental. Success is just beginning to emerge in this area and it provides the opportunity to wipe large swathes of MS destops at a single contract – it is the start of exponential growth that will effectively wipe out MS on the desktop in less than a decade.
And servers might not be important to you Mr Joe Public consumer by they are important to the IT industry and Linux is already winning there.
The brightest minds just volunteer…
Sure they do. Just like in every other profession, right?
The very brightest will end up in jobs that pay them just to work on open source software…
And this must be because there’s so much PROFIT in OSS, I guess. Yeah those salaries from OSS companies is going to be hard to match…
IBM is hiring more developers to work on Linux for Power 4…
Couple hundred, wasn’t it? I heard M$ is hiring 5,000.
There is the OSDL look at it sponsors all of the major computer hardware companies in the world except Sun.
No Sun? Apple? Maybe they can make it work off handouts.
No MS just can’t keep up – what you must understand no one in the computer industry wants microsoft except microsoft.
Yeah, I’m sure ALL the resellers just HATE them. They make boatloads off Linux you know.
We’ve been targeting linux at work for about 5 years now. We do network protocol conversion software. And just recently went to linux on our embedded systems which is very cool because I only have to build one executable and get all the cool features of linux (like a real stack instead of that crappy USNet stack we were licensining(and bug fixing for them).
When I get home I still use win 98. Why? Believe it or not it never crashes on me and IE imo still the best browser out there. I’ve got redhat9(previously gentoo) on another partition, but unless i’m programming i have no need to boot into it.
What’s the point of my story. Most people just browser, check email, and play games at home – and in that they’re happy with windows.
Good Afternoon. Did you see the link I posted above that Sony completely licensed Intertrust IP for $28 million? In your expert opinion, which I often trust, doesn’t this bode well for M$ being able to successfully license as well? I don’t see Intertrust as wanting to build the next map of the internet, they just want their little peice of the pie for that little piece of paper they have, don’t you think? Regards…
You must feel like a total idiot now(calling me a wintroll) after my last post.
P.S. Slashdot moderation works if your in Slashdot groupthink mode.
Hey Coral Snake, that’s Archie Shill, I mean Archie Steel. You know, the guy that logs into here from IBM Canada, remember? Yeah, that’s a guy we should all trust, uh huh.
my previous post should’ve been aimed at you, but since you and chemicalsum both seem to be about the same i’ll aim it at you too.
What’s the point of my story. Most people just browser, check email, and play games at home – and in that they’re happy with windows…
Yes, and many aren’t interested in wasting a weekend on an O/S upgrade, even if it is supposedly ‘free’. They’re only going to get their next operating system upgrade when they get their next overall system upgrade. And when there is no real competition to M$ ready to go preinstalled (Apple, Linux, etc) down at BestBuy, not many people are going to get one then, either.
I’d like to see Apple at Best Buy. Problem is, Apple themselves don’t seem to want that.
Pay attention, troll. I revealed myself as the former Archie Steel on the second post I made under this new name. Coral Snake can attest of this, he was there (and convinced me that you two were not the same person posting under different names).
I’d like to take the opportunity remind you (and anyone else) that I am not logging in from IBM Canada. If I recall correctly, I asked you to tell me exactly how you arrived at that conclusion, but as usual when forced to provide facts you just vanished. So I’ll ask again: what proof do you have that I would be working at IBM, troll? (I’m not, btw.)
Like I said i’m still running ’98 – for whatever bizarre reason it never crashes on me. I’ll wait for my next system to get XP. I was at Circuit city yesterday and saw a dual-processor G4 that went for like $3k. It was hooked up to one of those 23″ flat screens that went for $2k. Man are those things fucking sweet:)
The brightest minds just volunteer…
Sure they do. Just like in every other profession, right?
Yeah they really do but thats something you’ll never understand
No Sun? Apple? Maybe they can make it work off handouts.
I said the biggest computer companies in the world and you mention Apple – OK I’ll list some of the OSDL sponsors: IBM, HP, Fujitsu-Siemens, Hitachi, NEC – just a few of them.
Couple hundred, wasn’t it? I heard M$ is hiring 5,000.
IBM is just one company amongst many.
Yeah, I’m sure ALL the resellers just HATE them. They make boatloads off Linux you know
Nah – they don’t make money out of windows they just pass along the MS tax – they are shit scared of MS and would not dare to ship Linux on a system in case MS retaliated and charged them more for their Licenses.
> Simple fact – Microsoft is sitting on CASH reserves of $50 BILLION.
Actually, if you ever check, Microsoft is sitting on liquid assets of $40 billion… but almost all of those are: Shares of stock in Microsoft. (Remember, the Microsoft buyback program)
If Microsoft needed to liquify those, they’d flood the market, causing the stock price to plummet. They’d never get $40 billion out of it.
It’s back on one of the previous posts, where you were getting repeatedly schooled. Go find it yourself, you logged in as Archie Shill but it only had an IP address intead of that .ca you have again now. All I did was a whois lookup, bam, IBM Canada. Right in the middle of a SCO thread!
If Microsoft needed to liquify those, they’d flood the market, causing the stock price to plummet. They’d never get $40 billion out of it.
Where in the world did you hear that. Check this third article right here says their “cash reserves swelled to $49 Billion”:
http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/Archives?s_site=siliconvalley&p…)&p_field_date-0=YMD_date&p_params_date-0=date:B,E&p_text_date-0=-180q zD&p_perpage=10&p_sort=YMD_date:D&xcal_useweights=no
I really don’t take any pleasure in pointing out M$ success. I am really more exposing your denial than anything, which was the point of the article.
I won’t give you my real IP address, but if you do a whois on it, it doesn’t point to IBM canada.
This is the link of a complete lookup on http://www.ibm.ca:
http://network-tools.com/default.asp?prog=express&Netnic=whois.arin…
Now, please, since I’ve given you a handy link, show me how you arrived at IBM with the three first sections of my IP adress.
(I’ll help you, here it is again: 209.47.215.XX)
If you can’t give us this proof then we can only conclude that you either made a mistake, or made it up…
Cat got your tongue?
http://www.bayarea.com/mld/mercurynews/business/technology/6330173….
Oh, here’s another tidbit I posted on another thread.
Overall the migration is still in favor of Linux:
“In the last two months Linux has made a net gain of over 100 enterprise sites; sites which have migrated to Linux including Royal Sun Alliance, Deutsche Bank, SunGard,T-online and most noteworthy, Schwab.”
http://news.netcraft.com/archives/2003/07/24/sco_lawsuit_will_the_e…
You’ve truly revealed yourself as a troll when you made this statement:
//When I get home I still use win 98. Why? Believe it or not it never crashes on me and IE imo still the best browser out there. I’ve got redhat9(previously gentoo) on another partition, but unless i’m programming i have no need to boot into it. //
Voodoo couldn’t make win98 stable. Besides that, IE is far behind many browsers. It may be very fast to load but the features suck compared to other browsers. Tabbed browsing, popup blocking anyone? What’s so great about IE?
That’s despite the 8,000 sites that moved from Linux to Win2k3. Guess there must have been a few sites moving from Windows to Linux as well, eh?
It’s fast, and sorry to burst your bubble but I can’t remember the last time ’98 crashed on me. Better go back to slashdot Stallman-sycophant boy.
…I’ll be checking in later to see if you could prove that you could somehow link me to IBM with my incomplete IP adress. Or if you’ve offered an apology instead.
…you just gave a link to your previous lie/mistake. I want you to give us right here right now the proof that my IP adress points to IBM Canada, using a linkable whois query on the net. I gave you an adresse, there are plenty more.
To point to your original lie/mistake as proof when I want you to prove that original assertion!!
Guess there must have been a few sites moving from Windows to Linux as well, eh?
No. From Unix. Check the other link above (IDC Report).
Too bad too. Unix is a much better system.
Meanwhile ponder over the fact that Linux had a net gain in Web sites over the past two months…
…I’ll be checking in later…
Do whatever you want, IBM Canada, but I’m sure it will have more to do with pushing your product than anything.
I really do think that Microsoft is in serious trouble With InterTrust because in addition to licensing rights to the patents in question Sony and Phillips have purchased considerable parts of the company as well from my readings about it. (Just as Borland purchased part off Troll Tech when they licensed QT proprietary edition for their Linux versions of Delphi and C++ Builder under the name of Kylix.)
At least one of these conpanies (Sony) is one that Microsoft tried to “embrace and extend” out of the gaming business with X Box. And therefore I DON’T think that this co owner of InterTrust at least has any interest in an out of court settlement or licensing deal.
And by the way did you see my first post on Free Republic that proposed what I think is a sutable punishment for these receivers of stolen code WHO DO NOT HAVE ANY MONEY TO SUE FOR. It is kind of a turn about is fair play thingy and you will find it on the Free Republic thread with the same title as this one. Just say yes if you did and keep quiet.
Kind of want to keep the “Bow the knee to the GPL” crowd around here guessing as to what I have in mind for them if I were running the lawsuit.
//It’s fast, and sorry to burst your bubble but I can’t remember the last time ’98 crashed on me. Better go back to slashdot Stallman-sycophant boy.//
Faster != better. Go ahead and say you like it because it’s faster but don’t tell me or anyone that it’s better when it is not. CSS sucks, lack of tabs sucks, and having to deal with annoying popups are enough to convince me to use something else. Again I’m going to disagree with you about never having had win98 crash because it’s the buggiest piece of crap (besides ME) that has ever been passed off as an OS. Unless you don’t really use it there’s no way to keep it stable for long. Well I guess it’s useless to argue because all you can do is resort to name-calling like a child that you probably are.
Coral Snake, I totally agree that Sony would have a pretty serious axe to grind with M$ (although their entire computer line runs on M$, since they recently dropped their Transmeta portable which ran M$ anyway), but if Sony/Phillips only paid $28 million to license it (before purchasing the company completely), wouldn’t that place the vale at ~$50-100 Million for an M$ license? Maybe 1 Billion, max (which is a LOT, of course)?
Of course, if M$ infringed, especially knowingly, they should have to fork it over, especially with their past transgressions. Their penalty should be even more severe for even fighting it, if they are guilty, because any more illegal activity by them must be dealt with, severely.
I just haven’t seen any credible reports indicating what damages are even being sought, giving the impression this is completely under the radar except for the vile anit-M$ crowd, which I don’t believe you belong to of course, but of which we are just subjected to so much of it on internet message boards.
Always good to talk to you, here or elsewhere 😉
What’s funny is that I’ve been programming on linux for years and think it’s a fine OS.
Coral Snake is much like you. OSS guys I can respect.
These other guys: juvenille delinquents
…before calling us “juvenile deliquents.”
That’s it, I’m out of here. I’ll be back later for that proof.
[i] I use both MS and Linux side-by-side – I love them both, but each for very different reasons. I think there’s room in this world for both. You don’t like Windows? Fine, don’t use it. If you feel Linux is a superior alternative and that it lacks for nothing (as some would claim), then why can’t we all just get along?[i]
I am am posting this to point out that I am not one of those Linux zealots that tells you MS windows garbage – it is quite a good product. At work I am one of the few people that works on both a Windows desktop (usualy win 2000, sometimes XP sometimes even NT) and a Linux desktop simultaneously. I run the windows desktop at 1024×768 and VNC through to KDE at 800×600 on my Linux server. So I have Linux running in a window displayed on a win box. I switch between apps on the two systems depending on what app I need for what task. I have a lot of apps I use that are cross platform that I can use on both systems: MozillaFirebird, Abiword, OpenOffice and WinGimp. Qt apps like Xdrawchem/Windrawchem, python apps like BKChem and Java apps like Jchempaint and Jmol.
So I get to make a close comparison and both are good desktops. But personally I prefer to work with Unix based systems even on the desktop – OK I am an old Unix head. And on my machine at home I am most happy when I am using the Unix inspired desktop XFce
However I think open source software will dominate because the open source development model produces better code faster. It is an model that lends itself to the rapid evolution of code (here I base my ideas on mimetics rather than computer science theory – this irritates the BSD heads)
I don’t like MS’s monopoly business practices even if it does produce passably useful software for a lot of general purpose tasks. I think its’ monopoly mode of production is essentially a Stalinist model of production with the Vozhd/Chief Architect running a command economy from the top. And when you really need competition to make something that works properly you set up a couple of teams in competition lead by competing designers (like the old soviet miltary aviation industry – MiG team vs Sukhoi team).
No I think the anarchic methods of code production in FLOSS are better because the are essentially evolutionary. </end lecture>
Sorry should check those tags
“I use both MS and Linux side-by-side – I love them both, but each for very different reasons. I think there’s room in this world for both. You don’t like Windows? Fine, don’t use it. If you feel Linux is a superior alternative and that it lacks for nothing (as some would claim), then why can’t we all just get along?”
I am am posting this to point out that I am not one of those Linux zealots that tells you MS windows garbage – it is quite a good product. At work I am one of the few people that works on both a Windows desktop (usualy win 2000, sometimes XP sometimes even NT) and a Linux desktop simultaneously. I run the windows desktop at 1024×768 and VNC through to KDE at 800×600 on my Linux server. So I have Linux running in a window displayed on a win box. I switch between apps on the two systems depending on what app I need for what task. I have a lot of apps I use that are cross platform that I can use on both systems: MozillaFirebird, Abiword, OpenOffice and WinGimp. Qt apps like Xdrawchem/Windrawchem, python apps like BKChem and Java apps like Jchempaint and Jmol.
So I get to make a close comparison and both are good desktops. But personally I prefer to work with Unix based systems even on the desktop – OK I am an old Unix head. And on my machine at home I am most happy when I am using the Unix inspired desktop XFce
However I think open source software will dominate because the open source development model produces better code faster. It is an model that lends itself to the rapid evolution of code (here I base my ideas on mimetics rather than computer science theory – this irritates the BSD heads)
I don’t like MS’s monopoly business practices even if it does produce passably useful software for a lot of general purpose tasks. I think its’ monopoly mode of production is essentially a Stalinist model of production with the Vozhd/Chief Architect running a command economy from the top. And when you really need competition to make something that works properly you set up a couple of teams in competition lead by competing designers (like the old soviet miltary aviation industry – MiG team vs Sukhoi team).
No I think the anarchic methods of code production in FLOSS are better because the are essentially evolutionary. </end lecture>
While I refuse to respond to raving lunatic Archie SHILL, again see the link I provided above where he was exposed from posting from an IBM Canada uplink. Fact is, that’s exactly why he changed his name to Great whatever he supposedly is, right after it happened.
I am am posting this to point out that I am not one of those Linux zealots that tells you MS windows garbage – it is quite a good product.
chemicalscum: Based on every prior post I have ever seen from you, I suggest you seek counseling for Multiple Personality Disorder. Either that or better explain when you finally overcame your linux obsession.
Michael Jackson is not in jai.
He has money.
Microsoft has money.
Any question?
good to see some rationality in your post friend.
I disagree with your assertion that the opensource model is superior. It works in some cases but in other cases it’s too slow. Let’s admit it, most open source programmers are coming home from work at 6-7 and doing a couple hours of hacking a night before they crash and goto their day jobs. Plus, I believe there is no substitute to having your fellow programmer in the next office so you can hash out things on the white board. The open source model has done great things with the kernel but I’m not sure if KDE or Gnome will ever(in a near-future time frame) catch up with Microsoft on the desktop. Let’s get some 3d acceleration on the desktop XFree guys because that’s the wave of the future.
One thing I’ve always wished(and maybe this is unreasonable) is for a distribution to take, say 50 or 75 apps, and replace their respective configuration files with a standard XML format instead of this homegrown crap. It’s such a pain to have to learn each and every little apps configuration file format. Maybe I ask for too much.
Ok once and for all I would like to stop this absolutely retarded debate about apple’s prices compared to other pc’s…I am just really sick of seeing this gay debate always popping up on this website so I need to tell you pc guys what’s what lol … Ok, first lets take a trip back in time… Remember when apple allowed 3rd party vendors to supply their own PPC computers that run the current Mac OS? Remember a company called Power Computing? Well Apple realized it had to stop the cloning of macs because it was slowly eroding the company’s profits… Apple cannot allow for cheaper clone computers like the pc world does… So intern this is why pc computer makers can charge so much less then the mac because they have an enormous army of vendors that can ship pcs at such a low price and then those company’s duke it out price wise so they go even cheaper… Now do you people realize why Apple cannot EVER offer as cheap as pcs unless they start allowing clones again which would cannibalize Apples sales period and I donno about you but I would like the company that produces my computer I use to stay in business! Bottom line is maybe Apple can overtake the pro-sumer market with the wonderful G5 price range that has the power of a workstation but is priced like a desktop (thank god for that lol) but the consumer market they never can like you said because piece of **** Dell’s (and yes I can call them that not because I am bias to apple but because I actually have used them and they blow) can cost these insanely low amounts so the average joe anywhere can afford it… Believe me I wish macs cost a lot less too (not as low as dells tho cause I mean come on do you trust using a computer reliably that costs $300-500? lol I sure as hell don’t) but the simple fact is macs may keep lowering prices like they have been but they will NEVER reach as low as Dulls, well that is unless they get as much money as microsoft has lol which I don’t see happening anytime soon… So please guys no more damn debate on this. It got old a long time ago…Oh yes and the spec score debate is getting very old as well and any well informed person that has good knowledge of how these tests are performed would see that apple is not lying at all… and I really can’t wait when the G5 code is actually optimized then we will see the true power of that wonderful machine so until then no saying that this and that pc is faster when Intel and AMD have had plenty of time to optimize their code for their processors…Also while I’m babbling on about stuff that I see on here that makes me mad lol… The G5 is priced as a DESKTOP guys but has workstation abilities so don’t go comparing these fatty top notch workstations that cost a crap load when you darn well know that we are comparing two different offerings here, so don’t kid yourselves anymore k? Thanks = )… We now return you to your regularly scheduled microsoft debate…
another macfanatic gets her panties in a bundle over something that hasn’t been discussed for like 60 posts.
“Either that or better explain when you finally overcame your linux obsession”
If you read my post and were able to undertand it you might achieve enlightenment – no not the window manager
Yes I actually explain why I don’t like Microsoft and why I think Linux and FLOSS in general is better.
Read Learn and Inwardly Digest
We now return you to your regularly scheduled microsoft debate…
Good post I enjoyed reading. I’m an old Apple guy myself, had several of the Apple ][ series around my house, it always amazed me how much more I could do at home than I could at work on those VMS and Unix terminals.
Hopefully they will increase their market share over Linux, and they very well might could if you guys would start selling in places like Circuit City, and then push some quad processor servers to better match up with other *nix systems. Good luck to you.
Microsoft is still a powerful company, but I think that Cooper is overestimating its fortunes:
Then there’s the run-of-the-mill stuff beyond the operating system, such as cell phones, PDAs, game players, online services–even wristwatches.
Cell phones? The major cell phone companies want to do business with Symbian rather than MS, in no small part because they don’t trust it. And at least one smaller company, Sendo, has accused Microsoft of things like misappropriating its trade secrets.
In things like PDAs and wrist watches, MS is one player among many, and is hardly dominating.
Microsoft’s cash cows are Windows and Office. Everything else is doing mediocrely well or just simply going south. The Windows desktop is a saturated market, and Office has been pretty much feature-complete since Office 97. Microsoft’s biggest competitor is itself.
Does Microsoft appear to be imploding? Not really. MS, though, has little room to expand.
Macs are already sold at Circuit City. Like I said, I was playing around with a dual-G4 yesterday there.
Thanks Topspeed i appreciate that, as do i hope that happens to… As for you roybatty.. panties in a bundle?? lol Wow nice insult i have not heard that one since 4th grade lol… I don’t care if it was 1000 posts ago im sick of hearing pc users spew out wrong or misinformation about the mac i mean at least im honest when i tell people about windows (*cough*it blows *cough*) lol…
You may be right that there is less to this InterTrust thing that meets the eye when you look at their IP Litigation site but I’m still going to play it safe and keep Win 98 as my primary OS until BOTH of these cases get streightened out. (Linux is actually a sccondary OS with me that I use for word processing work with Sun Star Office and some C, C++, Java and Kylix and FreePascal programming.)
See you on that OTHER site that the crowd ther probably wouldn’t touch with a 100 fiit mouse wire ;-).
Macs are already sold at Circuit City…
Good to hear, unfortunately not at our CC here. I wouldn’t mind checking one out, haven’t really seen a new Mac in a good while.
Inform me why it would not be viable to deploy 50,000 eMacs within an organisation and have each of them loaded with Office X and 4D 2003? IMHO, AUS$1899 is a piddly amount of money for a computer and I’ll put money on it, if you approached Apple, they’d be quite happy to rip another AUS$150-AUS$250 off that price.
As for this “I don’t want a monitor with my computer”, that is rubbish. Sure, it *could* be valid in the US but the market in NZ and Australia are not saturated, hence, there are still people who still haven’t bought their first computer, ALSO, most people *I* know would sooner buy a computer WITH a new monitor so that they get either a *BIGGER* or *SUPERIOR* one.
As for what I did with my old computer, I passed it on to my brother whose own computer is riddled with issues. Considering that even after 4 years it still runs Windows XP quite nicely, I am sure it can keep going for another 2 years.
I was playing around with that dual-g4 yesterday with the 23″ flat screen. Was it nice? Hell yeah, that 23″ flat screen was nice. I did notice some of the scrolling was still a bit slow though.
Listen, If i was making 500k a year a year I’d pick up a Mac desktop and laptop in a second (also played around with a 17″ laptop too), but the software just isn’t there for me. I have nothing against macs – they’re pretty cool with OSX – I do have something against the “Yes Steve….we agree with anything you say zombies (I’m not talking about you apple101). Some of these people are worse than the linux zealots. Geez people, it’s just a tool, not a lifestyle unless you’ve been entranced by the reality distortion field.
See you on that OTHER site that the crowd HERE probably not touch with a 100 foot mouse wire ;-).
what site is that? You and topspeed sound like you hold some of my views.
“I disagree with your assertion that the opensource model is superior. It works in some cases but in other cases it’s too slow. Let’s admit it, most open source programmers are coming home from work at 6-7 and doing a couple hours of hacking a night before they crash and goto their day jobs. Plus, I believe there is no substitute to having your fellow programmer in the next office so you can hash out things on the white board. The open source model has done great things with the kernel but I’m not sure if KDE or Gnome will ever(in a near-future time frame) catch up with Microsoft on the desktop. Let’s get some 3d acceleration on the desktop XFree guys because that’s the wave of the future.”
1. Yes sourceforge is half full of half hearted one man projects – but he evolutionary model expects a lot of failures.
2. Major projects for success require a mixture of core full time hackers together volunteer hackers but even the one man project can sometimes come up with gold and on the way attract a few developers.
3. As for the next door office – ever heard of IRC and instant messaging
4. I am one of those that doen’t see any major advantage in XP over Gnome or KDE just a bit of polish.
5. There are some proprietary hardware drivers that people claim work well – like the Nvidia drivers but I think it sucks for older hardtware – made my system unstable. Still I am happy with MESA but then I don’t play games – I use it for molecular modeling so I am quite happy if I can slowly and smoothly rotate big molecules, I dont need speed.
As for your last point on a single XML format configuration file I agree with you totally – I am continually trying to find again the right configuration file.
[i]You may be right that there is less to this InterTrust thing that meets the eye[i]
In all honesty friend I really don’t know for sure, I am only guessing based on the little press coverage which leads me to believe the damages aren’t claimed to be that great. There was nothing ‘tangible’ really taken, so M$ may have to pay some royalties for ‘idea’ infringement, but without theft of something functional that was previously developed or owned by Intertrust, the damages probably can’t be as large. Just my guess.
You may be right that there is less to this InterTrust thing that meets the eye
In all honesty friend I really don’t know for sure, I am only guessing based on the little press coverage which leads me to believe the damages aren’t claimed to be that great. There was nothing ‘tangible’ really taken, so M$ may have to pay some royalties for ‘idea’ infringement, but without theft of something functional that was previously developed or owned by Intertrust, the damages probably can’t be as large. Just my guess.
What isn’t *THERE* on the Mac Desktop?
Database: 4D 2003.1
Office Suite: Office X
Java Development: Eclipse 2.1.1 or Netbeans 3.5
Graphics: Corel Graphics Suite 11 (Yes Adobe fanboys, it is a very capable suite)
As for games, who the heck would want to waste their valuable time on such trivial and childish past times? if you are >35 and still playing games, you *REALLY* have to ask where your priorities lay.
Point (3)
I still don’t think there’s a substitute for the guy next to you and who you can have a drink with and face-to-face contact. But that’s just my opinion.
Point (5)
when i talk 3d i’m talking more in the vain of what Apple is doing with quartz extreme(I guess). let’s offload some of the 2d stuff to the accelerator. DirectX-2d is just a subset of Direct3d at this time.
In things like PDAs and wrist watches, MS is one player among many, and is hardly dominating.
Definitely not dominating, but definitely growing, at the expense of rivals:
http://www.siliconvalley.com/mld/siliconvalley/news/local/5278956.h…
Again, not being pro-M$ here, just getting you guys up to date with what is really going on.
Even though I program in c++ on linux at work for a living doing low-level network protocol stuff I really enjoy .NET. Yes, I said it (where’s that guy from turkey to flame me now). Mono is getting there but I like Sharpdevelop(code completion, good docs, etc…).
As far as games are concerned my flaming friend, I’m 33, not over 35:), and haven’t played games in a while, but i plan on fragging well into my FUCKING 60’S YOU ASSWIPE. DON’T FUCKING TELL ME TO GET PRIORTIES.
Check http://www.freerepublic.com sometime. Especially if you like politics/law and are more socially conservative than liberal.
yeah, i’m somewhat libertarian but don’t affiliate with any party. Bush has become another liberal tax-n-spender. done with politics here on Eugenia’s great site:)
hmm, i just re-read your comment. I’m not a “social conservative”. I’m a fiscal conservative and pretty hawkish. I can do without bible-thumping and that business.
[sarcasm]Oh dear Lord, everyone stop the presses because linux is dead!![/sarcasm]
Microsoft won? Every other week we have to suffer through another one of these insipid articles, and every week a feel dumber for it. The ENTIRE tech sector is doing better as of late. PC sales are a good example of this. Just because Microsoft is posting some profits does not mean that they ‘won’. As for ‘confidence’, that is just a bunch of PR speak bullcrap. Why is Microsoft building a linux lab if they are so confident about their superiority?
The day linux, BSD, macOS, QNX, Solaris, Unixware and all the others completely cease development will be the day microsoft has won.
Victory is a nebulous concept. market success != victory
the market is a mercurial thing, and everyone here would do good to remember that fact.
I forgot another thing that bodes ill for microsoft in the InterTrust case. This is a PATENT infringement suit. In the Intellectual Property Law world patent ingfringement suits tend to be the hardest and most expensive to defend with the largest penalties for failing to do so. Guess that this is the reason that the “bow the knee to the GPL” cult doesn’t like patents in the software field.
And the reason I think that this case is so under reported compared to the SCO thing is that is basically just two closed source companies havin it out with other while the SCO case represents the more “important” idea of a closed source company going after an open sours OS.
Even though I program in c++ on linux at work for a living doing low-level network protocol stuff I really enjoy .NET. Yes, I said it (where’s that guy from turkey to flame me now). Mono is getting there but I like Sharpdevelop(code completion, good docs, etc…).
Well, that is different altogether, you *NEED* linux because that *IS* the target platform for your work.
As far as games are concerned my flaming friend, I’m 33, not over 35:), and haven’t played games in a while, but i plan on fragging well into my FUCKING 60’S YOU ASSWIPE. DON’T FUCKING TELL ME TO GET PRIORTIES.
Very mature, so this is another trait of the US education system, not only are people taught to have an opinion on everything but also how to be an unrefined harlequin when debating in a forum.
My comment was a generalised and was not directed specifically at you but at those whose come back is always, “oh, but Macs have no games”.
This is a PATENT infringement suit. In the Intellectual Property Law world patent ingfringement suits tend to be the hardest and most expensive to defend with the largest penalties for failing to do so.
Yes I would normally agree, but there are other possible reasons why that may not adversely affect M$. First, if the IP value as originally licensed to Sony is only $28 million (granted, that was freely given by Sony, not fought over, but since Sony bought them later, was it a price pump to begin with?). Second, the patent isn’t some kind of secret invention, like that balancing scooter that just came out, but as I understand rather a vague explanation of natural data flows over the internet. Finally, I’m not sure Intertrust even has much of a real ‘product’ whose market was crushed by an evil giant who stole any functioning technology from them.
But, I am willing to give Intertrust some benefit of the doubt, based on M$ dirty deeds of the past. It will be interesting to see, and if M$ KNOWINGLY infringed, they deserve severe penalty, especially if Intertrust was ever any sort of true competitor.