“The more interesting question is whether Apple’s QuickTime will also be a part of Mad Hatter or other desktop Linux offerings,” says Yankee Group analyst Dana Gardner. The end user ideally should be able to access content in any format with a minimum of hassles. Read the article at NewsFactor.
Sun Gets Real with Mad Hatter
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Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
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What Sun, and any other company looking to get into the Linux desktop business, must realize is that it is impossible to maintain a long-term technical advantage with Linux. They are only able to “close the gap” (so to speak) with other competing technologies like WinXP and MacOS X.
If Apple were to port Quicktime to Linux (as the article suggests) then it would be stupid of them to make it available to Sun’s Linux only. There are a lot of Linux users out there using LSB-compliant desktops (SuSE/UnitedLinux, Red Hat, Mandrake, Connectiva, etc.) that make up a far larger market than Sun will have for some time. Unless Sun is willing to fund Apple to port it, then exclusivity is not likely.
is how Sun is paying so much attention to the Linux desktop experience with Mad Hatter but is paying so little attention comparitively to Gnome on Solaris. While Sun is finally shipping a browser better than NS4 with Solaris (Netscape 7) they are not providing an easy means to access it. Sun needs to ensure that installing a Solaris package they created also creates icons in Gnome, not just CDE. Furthermore, they need to provide alternatives to all the antequated CDE applications, most notably by packaging something like Evolution along with Gnome as an alternative to dtmail. Expecting users to use Netscape mail is not an effective solution, in my mind…
> Unless Sun is willing to fund Apple to port it, then exclusivity is not likely.
It’s probably not desired from both parties either. The question is really whether Apple is behind the Open Source movement fully or just using it where the benefit is mostly in Apple’s favour.
Don’t get me wrong, the KHTML and other work they have done is very commendable, but at the moment it benefits Apple more than Linux because of their larger user base and the opportunity to escape the MSIE arm-lock they’ve been in for so long. Whether they will release the Quicktime player which many would consider a pivotal multimedia app and risk promoting Linux to the no.2 desktop environment ahead of themselves is another question entirely.
As for Sun, they want Sun One in the server room and on the power-user workstations, and Linux on the call centre/office desktop. If they can replace Microsoft on the desktop then their chances in the Server room, where the real money is, are greater so they aren’t going to bother locking purchasers to their own Linux. They may offer a “total Sun Solution” incentive but they won’t be stupid enough to say “Hey, use our Linux or you’ll be stuck in the Stone age with the long haired crazies”. That would be almost as stupid and counter-productive as suing IBM for breach of trade secrets and claiming you *own* linux!
I thought Sun didn’t like Linux.
Why would Apple have to port Quicktime? It’s working just fine with Crossover. That may be with whom Sun partners to bring Quicktime to their Linux distribution.
> They are only able to “close the gap” (so to speak) with other competing technologies like WinXP and MacOS X.
I don’t agree with this, but even if I did, there are no other (reasonable) alternatives – short of developing their own flavor of WinXP or MacOS X (which would be downright stupid). The reason that I don’t agree with this statement is because there are different measures of success – Sun needs to gain developers – in turn, this will build their user base. Right now, there is no platform that’s easier to develop for than Linux, and no platform whose user base is growing faster.
As for Apple being friend or foe – They’re foes. I mean, they’re “competitors”. Apple wants to swing users from Linux to MacOS X, and it would only hurt themselves to port Quicktime over to Linux. I also have a suspicion that Apple is the secret licensor of the SCO Linux license. (The “Fortune 500” one who was announced last month but would not reveal its identity.).. but that’s just my suspicions and probably offtopic.
In addition, doesn’t MPlayer already play quicktime formats on linux as of version 1.0? It’s either mplayer or xine, I can’t remember which.
For the Redhat set:
apt-get -f install mplayer
Go to mplayer site download codexs.
Put codecs from zip in /usr/lib/win32.
Done.
It works for me. I grabbed mplayer plugin too. I don’t have any problems with it but your mileage may vary and probably will.
The bitch of linux is not installing the thing. It is configuring the thing to do what you need. Once done, it makes a nice desktop. It is the getting there and knowing what to do that still puts linux out of the reach of the non-*Nixer’s. That and a few missing holes in the whole MSOffice to whatever compatibility cycle (examples like: project files and visio drawings and such).
Still, I am a Unix sysadmin and I work with a bunch of Unix programmers so it is a good flexible setup for us.
This is a business concern more than a technical one. (You know, business/licenses/support/obligations…yuck) Legally speaking, there are problems with distributing Linux with Quicktime support – that’s why none of the distributions carry it. Also, this creeps into the embedded Linux space where if products claim support for it, there might be ramifications.
Not really…. the codecs are made available for free. I think it’d be pretty hard to argue that using them from another program is “legally troublesome”. Oh sure, I expect they can make it violate a EULA, but seriously, if every business listens to them then they are silly, a lot of what makes up modern EULAs would get laughed out of court.
Well, Apple is pushing MPEG4, aren’t they? It’s a standard (although patented), so Sun could license it, and use xvid or some other available mpeg4 implementation. The only big problem is the Sorenson codec.. I have no idea if apple licensed it from a third party (which sun could do too), or made it themselves.
mplayer and xine don’t need the codecs any more. They both have native support for quicktime (this happened about 2 months ago)
mplayer already has NATIVE support for sorensen 1 and 3 and this qtaudio thing (e.g. it finally supports sound in the evolution trailer!).
“Using” and “distributing” are the key differences. Apple would probably feel pretty negligent if they let anyone control what gets distributed of Quicktime… or anything else of theirs.
There are two projects (Quicktime Alternative and Real (player?) alternative that implement that formats. In the case of Real the only missing feature is streaming.
Crossover is neither viable nor desired. Copying CODEC’s over from Windows is even less viable (it’s probably a DMCA violation, nowadays) and even less desired.
These are not solutions; they are work-arounds, at best.
The only real solutions are ports of said applications to Linux, or open-source alternatives (Like Ogg Tarkin, and the other Xiph projects) that don’t require corporate attention to port.
it’s probably a DMCA violation, nowadays
Only if you link to them.
Sorry, but I stil see apple as an enemy.
They have used open source in cases where the advantage to them were huge. Yet we(atleast I) dont see any of thier conributions except the bare minimum.
Apple is smart (or devious, depends which way you look at it). When they dumped thier crappy old underlying OS, you really think they would of had a choice of rewritting it? No, they found the least restricitng os that thy could use, and used it. Now many people are moving over to mac because it is a BSD. (beats my why though, what they did to the / folder is idiotic and shows how much they don’t really care about the underlying OS)
And what about khtml? From what I understand they put in plugs into khtml to be able to use them in safari wthout licensing issues. Is safari open source? If all thier doing is creating a new gui to khtml then what are they ‘hiding’?
Sorry, but apple is a linux enemy and not an open source supporter, just like sun.
(NOTE: This by no means gives any opinion on the great developers in those companies who help open source (BSD/GNOME/KHtml etc…, but rather my opinion on the current management of those companies, that, after all, means the most.
ummmmmmm…………..
safari gui is closed source…. safari khtml is opensource…. khtml is lgpl, so apple did not have to re-introduce the code to open source but did anyways….
bsd in mac os x is actually nextstep code which meant that the bsd code was used since at least the late 80s…
a few years after nextstep joined apple, apple released nextstep underlying code to the opensource…. they used hierarchal directory system from mac os 9 because it is easier for mac os 9 people to transfer over to mac os x…. (i know i couldn’t have used the unix filesystem 3 years ago… now i can because i learned to dig deep into os x and learned about unix… because of apple and os x…. :-)…. )
rendevous, a zeroconf networking solution, is also available freely from their developer website…
some developers from apple are directly involved in bsd and khtml coding where **I** definitely see the benifit daily on my freebsd 5.1-current laptop running cvs of kde and konqui….
most of apple’s quicktime codecs are now widely available under vlc or mplayer…. they work great, and IMHO, it is totally unnecessary for them to release quicktime for OSS…
what more do u want from them? Final Cut Pro or Shake for linux??? so they can watch their sales of mac hardware become canabilized???
they are still a business after all…. and in my opinion, the anti-commercial attitude i sometimes find in linux users is horrendous…
IMO, apple is the type of company the OSS really needs… give back core technology for the OSS…. keep their GUI, ease of use, etc. for their business….
over the past five years since i have been heavily following the tech industry, i have not seen a more giving and innovating company (well, IBM is like a tie here, but eh…) than apple… maybe i am wrong… but tell me how, as i am open to suggestions… but it is hard to find technology lovers and enthusiats from zealots following some of the innately uninformed and ignorant comments i see…
<IMHHHHO> u know, its just hard to follow some of the linux zealots out there; linux will rule the world, all else will die… cant we just have ap peaceful world where everything and everyone just coexist??? i think i am to idealistic and naive… o well…. but after i hear all those comments about freedom and such under the gpl… i see one of the most blantant lack of freedoms out there… if something is truly free, shouldnt anyone be able to do anything to it, even use it in another work??? i hear comments such as that the coder wants his source to always be free… well, it is free…. as long as it is out there, it will be free, even if some company takes and puts it into their code… but im probably getting way OT… and should stop before i make an a$$ out of myself… </IMHHHHO>
its becoming a solutions business out there for the tech industry… actually, i should say the computer business is becoming a solutions business… whoever can provide the best solutions (where IBM will continue to excel…) the tech industry is always changing based on what new technology comes up…
its just for the past two decades, computers and technology have become synonymous….
some more fodder for thought
>>its becoming a solutions business out there for the tech industry… actually, i should say the computer business is becoming a solutions business… whoever can provide the best solutions
“Solutions” is a corporate buzzword used to make their software sound important. (“No, it’s not a web browser, it’s an Internet Solution.”)
Saying something like “it’s becoming a solutions business” is completely meaningless.
Sorry, but I stil see apple as an enemy.
They have used open source in cases where the advantage to them were huge. Yet we(atleast I) dont see any of thier conributions except the bare minimum.
They have submitted all changed back to khtml and the only thing had to create was a qt -> Cocoa wrapper so that they wouldn’t have to license QT off trolltech. The only part of the whole product that is closed source is the GUI, which, IMHO opensource coders REALLY suck at.
Opensource coders are great at hacking away at code to produce a technically sound solution, however, when it comes to polishing and creating a new user interface, well, it is like Gengus Karn giving lectures on finding ones inner harmony.
If MadHatter is Sun’s “Corporate Desktop” (ie, throw it in front of your secretary, etc), what do you need Quicktime for? In what corporate environment do you need to watch a Quicktime movie? I can’t see Sun going for the home user, who would require a whole load of extras; if MadHatter doesn’t have QuickTime, RealPlayer, mplayer, etc, I as a sysadmin would be much happier. Give the users StarOffice, Mozilla, Evolution, and let them do their work.
Don’t most Windows sysadmins spend their time dealing with users who have installed extra sh*t on their PCs? Give users a client OS with the required applications and no way of installing additional crap, and they can get on with their job without crashes, and without watching clips of that fat kid pretend to be Luke Skywalker.
As a sysadmin, giving users a Linux desktop without root password, a few icons, and telling them to get on with it, sounds good to me.
Let them prove they need MS Word over StarOffice, or prove that the need to watch Quicktime movies, to their boss and to the sysadmin; then give them Windows.
What business need is there for QuickTime, for f*ck’s sake?
Just MHO, but then again, I have been drinking…
Listen our unix programmers on SuSE linux using KDE do not have root and I have heard really very little bitching and whining about this.
They surf the net with Mozilla, we all use Evolution and even send out appointments like this, gaim for IM has become the norm, and for a bunch of unix geeks as I have said before it works. Is it ready for the secretary and the Documentation Manager?
No, it is not windows and their whole computer existence revolves around seeing MS in front of every app they use. They would just freak otherwise even if they could manage without it. Plus, there are still apps like MS Project and Visio and such that have equivilants but no filters for importing their MS counterpart legacy docs.
But you are right user do not need root. The last time I installed anything for a user outside of the normal install was setting up Firebird for one developer because I saw it and I was sitting right there. He had already installed it in his home dir and such. The time before that was a parellel install of a newer Acrobat because we do document management and one of the developers needed to test a newer Acrobat against some pdfs or something and that was approved by my boss first.
“But you are right user do not need root. The last time I installed anything for a user outside of the normal install was setting up Firebird for one developer because I saw it and I was sitting right there. He had already installed it in his home dir and such.”
Yes – Firebird, Mozilla and OOo will install from binaries in the home directory without root privileges. I am not sure but I think can do the same with Java, Realplayer and Flash. Of course if you have access to gcc as your developers must have, you can compile and install to your home directory. You just have to edit the makefiles – they are developers so they would know how to do that wouldn’t they!
So I guess most of them have compiled and installed Mplayer and/or Xine and have downloaded all the codec dll’s from mplayer and are now happily viewing quicktime clips from the web. For that matter they are all probabaly now viewing movies the downlThey don’t need
No wonder they don’t ask you to install things they don’t need to.
Have a nice day