IBM, JBoss Eye New Java Plan

Eugenia Loli 2003-09-24 Java 24 Comments

IBM and open-source Java software company JBoss Group are in discussions to spearhead a Java standardization effort aimed at cooling off the growing popularity of Microsoft’s C# language. On other Java-related news, BeOS might see a full implementation of Java soon.

About The Author

Eugenia Loli

Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.

Follow me on Twitter @EugeniaLoli

24 Comments

2003-09-24 11:16 pm

Anonymous
Nice to see Java on BeOS but after reading the article and following Zeta progress, I won’t hold my breath just yet!
2003-09-24 11:17 pm

Anonymous
I don’t see C# as a competitor to java at all.

I see C# gaining popularity at the expense of other Microsoft framework/languages.
2003-09-24 11:30 pm

Anonymous
C#.. why, it runs on anything (running microsoft windows ).. You thought a JVM could be huge..
2003-09-25 12:51 am

Anonymous
Ever heard of MONO?

go-mono.org
2003-09-25 1:14 am

Anonymous
No need to report this…many others have tried and failed. Wasn’t parts of Kaffe running? There were a few more. I actually got some java programs to run, but can’t remember back that far.
2003-09-25 1:17 am

Anonymous
Ever wondered how cool could it Be?
2003-09-25 2:06 am

Anonymous
Rotor wasn’t a viable production-level implementation of .NET. It was much slower than the MS VM, not as complete, and relatively buggy. Rotor was never meant to be used commercially.
2003-09-25 2:49 am

Anonymous
BeOS might see a full implementation of Java soon.

Soon is being a bit premature.

Getting the String class to interpret and the JVM initialiation is one thing. Implementing the full set of APIs with platform specific quirks is another. e.g. the AWT may take some time.

Then, after getting it ‘working’, there are the JCK tests which FreeBSD has just completed for 1.3.1 after goodness knows how long.

Only then can you call it Java TM.

However, using Sun’s source code will be quicker than the various GNU efforts to create a clean-room J2SE.
2003-09-25 2:56 am

Anonymous
> Wasn’t parts of Kaffe running?

Yeap, a complete 1.0/1.1 port I think (using a “lightwight” widget set).

> the AWT may take some time.

This is a big bit of code to takle, but you could use an existing implementation to start with (X or vt100 and then you would atlest have a working JRE. More than many hobby oses.
2003-09-25 5:01 am

Anonymous
“All of a sudden, you can’t express your views that BeOS sucks?!”

did you just recognize it? try expressing negative views on gnome or mono and see what happens. –: ))))
2003-09-25 5:30 am

Anonymous
All of us who tried Linux and laugh at it’s slowness and immature way of being a wannaBeUnix also get our posts moderated down you know. And we’re quite many so don’t complain.

I think BeUnited who’s porting Java for BeOS is doing a great job. It’s nice to see how Sun really encourage all these small communitys and embrace them rather than stomp on them.

Less politics and more coding, that’s great stuff. I wish all communities could be like the BeOS one… friendly for users and friendly for companies..
2003-09-25 5:32 am

Anonymous
I don’t post here very often because of Eugenia’s power trips. Today I posted a sarcastic comment on BeOS (heck, wasn’t even forward on this) and said “Don’t forget Rotor. java on BeOS? How many people are gonna use that? 10-15?” and it got deleted.

My views on Mono… Mono will be shut down with a cease&desist from MS next year when it becomes more useable. What a waste of energy.

Gnome? I don’t use GNOME. I use Mac OS X and when I use Linux, I use KDE.
2003-09-25 6:36 am

Anonymous
check the “View moderated down comments” URL at the bottom of the comments.

cheers

peter
2003-09-25 6:44 am

Anonymous
IMO the most needed thing is an complete implementation of Java 1.4 which is fully OSS (LGPL?) compliant and perceived as an reference implementation. It’s easier to port an existing codebase which is proved than implement/glue entire JRE from different parts (say, Kaffe, Classpath, gcj, sablevm, etc.), omiting Sun JRE specific quirks, reinvent wheel, etc. Too bad for Sun that they don’t publish the most core part of Java in a way it would help them fighting off MS. My will always outmarket, outinvest, maybe even outperform Java with .NET. They will develop, market, cheat, lie, work hard, do whatever they can for years, maybe even decades (if needed) to make .NET a dominating platform. Sun should make Java core OSS before it’s too late (vide: Mozilla?).
2003-09-25 8:20 am

Anonymous

2003-09-25 8:26 am

Anonymous
The source code for J2SE is available for download, the only restriction is that you can distribute binary packages,

Should be:

The source code for J2SE is available for download, the only restriction is that you can’t distribute binary packages,

2003-09-25 12:10 pm

Anonymous

It is opensourced already. The source code for J2SE is available for download, the only restriction is that you can distribute binary packages, you can however distribute the diff files you have made and allow the end user to patch then compile it themselves.

No, that doesn’t qualify as open source. Sure, you can look at the source code, but you can’t modify it. In fact, if you look at the source code, you could well be ‘tainted’.

2003-09-25 12:48 pm

Anonymous
C# and .NET are growing in popularity because:

* They’re excellent tools.

* C# is an ISO standard language; Java is proprietary.

* There are two different open C#/.NET Framework implementations in the works (Mono and .GNU).

Any language/framework that lets me develop GUI applications without making me want to stab out my eyes is a good thing.

Java’s had how many years to fix its problems? And here’s a newcomer fresh out of the gate with better frameworks, better class design, and better language features… and oh, a smaller footprint and faster execution. Hmm, hard choice.

Java does gain you some portability (write once, test everywhere) on platforms blessed by Sun’s good will, but Mono and .GNU are changing that little problem/opportunity. Java has a larger pool of existing experienced programmers, but C# is trivial to pick up for any C++/Java developer.

Most of the Java vs. C# arguments I’ve heard break down to Sun being somehow more of a benevolent dictator than Microsoft, even though Microsoft no longer controls the C# language. It’s a real standard with ECMA and ISO, unlike Java.

Personally, I’d rather stick with an ISO standard language (C++ or C#), or something truly free (Python), than chain myself to a specific vendor. Assuming I have the choice, that is. 😉

I like C# and the .NET Framework a lot; I’m looking forward to seeing full-featured portable implementations.

– chrish

2003-09-25 1:39 pm

Anonymous
Thanks for all the comments.

beunited.org does not it any way support C# over Java. We are also porting C# to BeOS as well. We are more concerned with having tools for developers to make BeOS (OSBOS actually) more popular so that more applications can be writen/ported to OSBOS.

In more recent news, as of last night, we now have a fully functional Java 1.4 VM that has successfully executed “Hello World”. We are now moving on to fleshing out the rest of the native BeOS functions and implementing the AWT.

Note: our apologies for having the http://www.beunited.org site down. This is a problem with out ISP, Complexero.inc, who has not been operating with any level of decent service. We are moving our service to a new system at the end of this month to correct this problem. Again we apoligize to our members and others for this inconvenience.

Simon Gauvin,

President, beuntied.org

2003-09-25 6:55 pm

Anonymous
…we now have a fully functional Java 1.4 VM that has successfully executed “Hello World”…

That’s really darned funny.

2003-09-26 3:24 am

Anonymous
No, that doesn’t qualify as open source. Sure, you can look at the source code, but you can’t modify it. In fact, if you look at the source code, you could well be ‘tainted’.

Stop spreading that anti-SUN garbage. Just because you think that the whole world owes you a living and that corporations shoudn’t make money and insted be a chariety case, doesn’t mean that some of the OSS proponents (like me) believe the same rubbish.

You can make changes and simply submit them back to SUN. You really do have a problem with corporations, don’t you? how about moving to cuba and enjoying you so-called “utopia”.

2003-09-26 3:29 am

Anonymous
Nice to see you believe in Microsofts reality distortion field. Chris Herborth, is Microsoft going to submit more to the standards body if they enhance the C# language in any way? when are we going to see the whole framework standardised, aka, ASP.NET, ADO.NET, *THEIR* implementation of SOAP (which is incompatible with the specification).

You can start crowing C# and openstandards when it actually occurs, until then, please stick with what you know, which must fit a mini-minor.

2003-09-26 1:08 pm

Anonymous
Personal attacks are such wonderful arguments.

Having used Java and C# for SOAP work at my last job, I know that it works just great with a Java-based web service. And I was much, much more productive with C# than I was with Java… especially when it came time to do GUIs.

I’m not an Open Source uber alles advocate, but I don’t like being tied to one vendor, whether it’s Sun or Microsoft. I can’t anticipate what MS will do with C# or .NET any more than you know what Sun’s going to do with Java.

What’s important to me is not wasting my time. I tried C#, I liked it a lot, and I’m much more productive using it. I don’t “take advantage” of freaky nonstandard things like ASP.NET or ADO.NET because I want to be portable some day.

Your milage may vary, but most of the arguments I’ve heard against C# or .NET have been either “I’ve never tried it or looked into it, but I know Java, so C# must suck” or “MS is evil, run for the hills!”

I prefer to use the best tool for the job, and design away from vendor-specific silliness.

– chrish

2003-09-26 1:50 pm

Anonymous
Stop spreading that anti-SUN garbage. Just because you think that the whole world owes you a living and that corporations shoudn’t make money and insted be a chariety case, doesn’t mean that some of the OSS proponents (like me) believe the same rubbish.

None of what I said was anti-Sun. Its just a precaution that everyone in the open source community knows. Here’s an excerpt from the Mono homepage that states this:

In general be careful when you are implementing free software and you have access to proprietary code. We need to make sure that we are not using someone else’s copyrighted code accidentally.

These are just problems that involve mixing open source with proprietary code. The open source community is right to be paranoid about such details, as you wouldn’t want another SCO vs IBM case down the road.

You can make changes and simply submit them back to SUN. You really do have a problem with corporations, don’t you? how about moving to cuba and enjoying you so-called “utopia”.

*Yawn*. What happens if the code isn’t accepted by Sun? I don’t have a problem with corporations and I don’t live in a utopia. I live in the real world, and these are real issues.