YellowTAB provided us with a copy of Zeta 1.0 RC-1pre+ plus a few additional patches that were not available at the CD’s press time. We installed and tried out this new version and here’s what we think.
Installation
Installation took about 20 minutes with a 52x CD-rom, for full installation. The Installer program has changed a bit, but it still asks you to select if you want a full installation or to install only select programs. I find absolutely no reason in this day and age to bother your users with selective installation a-la Linux, when the difference in the install size is +1/-1 GB. with today’s hard drives, 1 GB is nothing. The somewhat updated UI of the Installer since the Beta 1, also has 2 usability bugs and I have already notified its developer. Overall, it is the same installer as last May: choices and more choices, and badly-resized screenshots. I’ve said this in the past and I will say it again: “BeOS was all about the best possible defaults, not the most choices” and that was one of the reasons why people loved it. “Less is more” our Gnome friends are preaching these days too, and that’s the usability trend both Apple and Microsoft has followed as well.
The Good Stuff
Booting into Zeta on my AthlonXP worked like a charm and I was up and running 15 seconds later. The desktop feels fast, as all BeOS versions of the past did. Users who have never used BeOS will find a friendly feeling as learning the OS takes almost zero time. The whole point of BeOS/Zeta is simplicity and ease of use and this is what “wins” these new users.
The font rendering engine is not great in today’s standards, but it is much-much better than Beta-1 last May. Tracker has SVG vector support, localization works well for a number of languages, USB-2 support is seemingly good as well. Zeta also found my PCI Firewire card and recognized it. Sound worked fine too, it found my Yamaha YMF-754 PCI card, while the mounting ext2/ext3 Slackware partition and my Windows 2003 Server NTFS mounting also worked well. Zeta found successfully my GeForce2MX AGP card too, its network card and used the drivers immediately on boot.
Zeta is fast, as any BeOS you might have used in the past. Loading apps is instant. BeOS users know very well that the occasional UI lock that applications get on all other OSes don’t happen in BeOS and its derivatives. Zeta is no different. It boots and operates fast. Zeta also includes the BONE networking stack, inspired by FreeBSD’s, and while this networking stack still has problems, it is worlds better than BeOS 5’s plain net_server. Additionally, you get the smooth window dragging, as explained here, and lots of new driver support for your PC not found on other BeOS-based releases. I usually use PS/2 mice and keyboards in order to have support from many obscure OSes that I run for OSNews’ business, but I tried my husband’s Logitech USB mouse on my VIA-based hardware (previously not well supported by BeOS’s USB stack) and it worked perfectly. Please note that most of the new drivers (USB 2, better SCSI support, basic wireless etc) can NOT be found on BeBits or elsewhere, they are only available on Zeta.
Zeta comes with a lot of software, software that is mostly found freely on BeBits, but also software that is unique to Zeta: like the fax preferences and app, the address book, ZEdit etc. Some of the software bundled is buggy though, such as Abiword (context menu/3rd mouse button switch, crash on exit). Bochs with FreeDOS is included as well and some other game emulators too. Other software involves CD burning, some system utilities, lots and lots of games. Gobe Productive Office suite 2.x is also included, and I think it is the full version, not just a demo.
Developers will find gcc 2.9-pre installed and ready, however the documentation of the updated Be API to take advantage of the new features (e.g. new printing kit, non-rectangle windows) is not included (Be never wrote that documentation).
The latest releases of Mozilla and Phoenix are included and while they seem a tiny bit faster than my earlier attempts with BeOS on the same machine, the overall feeling is not so positive about their performance under BeOS. Zeta still needs either a better/faster port of Firebird or to finish up their Safari/WebCore port.
If you don’t count my buggy network driver I mention below, YellowTAB Zeta is rock solid. I run it for a few days now with no problems at all. The system just works fast and reliably.
The Bad Stuff
One of the things I did not like in this version of Zeta is that it is using pWarp’s instant-on changing of virtual screens. Each time I put my mouse fast over the Deskbar to do something, I end up on a different workspace. I could not find the pWarpConfig applet on the preferences (it should have being there if YTAB is planning to use pWarp by default in its desktop). I had to go to BeBits, find out that the link for the app was dead, go over to BeZip.de and download it, unpack it, run the configuration app and tell it to stop this very annoying behavior. Only hours later I found that the config applet was placed somewhere the application directory, among hundreds of other apps. The hot corner workspace switch is a nice behavior if a) you are a long-time unix user who can’t live without this ‘feature’ b) if the Deskbar were not in the same “hot” corner as the warping capability. Zeta needs to take care of this immediately in my opinion and not enable this behavior by default. Or if they do, to place the applet in the preference menu. Update: Now YellowTAB tells me that they don’t know how this feature ended up on my default desktop! The pWarp input add-on was pre-installed you see. Update 2: YellowTAB now informed me that they removed the pWarp software from the default Zeta installation.
I still have problems with the RTL8139 driver, as it would randomly fall from 0.200 msec to 7000 msec pinging my FreeBSD gateway, 5 metres away. It feels like I am pinging the moon. Opening the (still buggy) brand new Network panel (BONE’s replacement?) and tell it “Apply Changes” it will fix the problem for about 5 seconds and then the RTL driver would go berserk again. Additionally, Zeta can’t figure out my broadcast address, at least this is what “ifconfig” tells me (0.0.0.0 instead of 10.255.255.255). YellowTAB is currently working on fixing the problem and I must say that I found YellowTAB forthcoming and willing to fix any such problems I found in their software during my evaluation.
Other problems I found are with the Tracker. The redraws are not consistent so I get half-drawn icons, while the status bar of any tracker window is not polished, e.g. it says “10items” instead of “10 items” (yes, I am a nitpicker). Also, the “Show Disks Icon” is broken on Tracker, it just displays a white 32×32 rectangle. Plus, I have to kill Tracker each time I reboot or shut down the machine, because Tracker would refuse to unload.
The weirdest decision to date I saw on Zeta, though, was the inclusion of all available decors (window managers) made available via the… Deskbar. So, you click the main menu of the OS and you get some helpful options, but I don’t see the Decor drop down menu fitting in there. This should be a preference panel, maybe the same as the Colors pref panel and the scrollbar one, but it has no place in the root menu of the OS. And speaking of the preferences, the whole thing needs reworking, it is not 1999 anymore (Be was working on a new preferences system 3 years ago but work was stalled).
Also, I fail to see the point of 11 different calculators included with Zeta, be it the Zeta-Deluxe version or not.
Conclusion
Zeta still requires more polishing and less annoying “features”. Luckily, it would not be difficult for existing BeOS users to customize a Zeta system to their liking, but new users might lose themselves with the confusing warping capability. There are still bugs in the system itself (Dano was work in progress and Zeta is based on Dano code as we found out by comparing system libraries and not just the kernel), but my main concern is the –seeming– non-ability of YellowTAB to bug fix its own system, as it seems they don’t have access to PalmSource’s source code. How do you support a product when its distributors seem to only have binaries? Furthermore, how do you evolve and innovate without having access to the guts of your own product? Yes, I am spoiled by Be,Inc.: I need to see some form of innovation from the OSes I use. So far, Zeta has not innovated. It has patched, it has added some craft (some very useful, some not), it has updated drivers and some high-level parts (this is its strong point as a product), but it has not innovated. Zeta has nothing that other consumer OSes don’t have (except its legendary UI responsiveness and good usability, all inherited by Be’s BeOS), and other OSes have pretty much caught up over the years.
Zeta seems to me more of a distribution of BeOS, based on the Dano codebase, plus additional drivers and applications. This is not particularly a bad thing, it is actually a good thing overall. But it is not the hope for BeOS’ revival. No, and I’m afraid that I do not think that OpenBeOS will be able to save the day either. Maybe there will never be such a revival without PalmSource’s interest in cultivating its own IP.
Overall, this version was a positive upgrade over Beta 1 so I would suggest OS enthusiasts take a look at Zeta, especially UI speed lovers. Ex-BeOS users should definitely consider buying it (because this is effectively BeOS 6’s code plus some of YellowTAB’s craft in it), while other users who want support for very exotic hardware (e.g. Bluetooth, good wireless etc) might be better with their current OSes. Read my Zeta buying guide for more information on your purchasing decisions.
>second, the kernel is the same as in
>Dano of Nov 15 2001. YellowTAB has just
>MODIFIED its date with a hex editor
Why most of you talk about Installer? This is real isue!
This is direct lying to those who want to buy Zeta.
You can think you’re getting new kernel, or at least kernel that has being worked on.
Is this legal? Like changing your car millage from 50,000km to 5,000km and selling it without teling your buyer.
I know you only run the installer once (hopefully), and the usability of the actual installer may not be harmed too much by all the options, but the usability of the complete system if adversely affected by all these useless apps being installed.
If you have to go hunting for ages in the program menus, then you’re being hampered by all the extra apps.
The system then remains in this state until you get round to the chore of removing hundreds of programs you don’t know if you need or not.
Therefore the seemingly small issue of the installer has quite a great adverse effect on the whole system. (As well as being worryingly indicative of not enough usability testing).
Lets hope that this is just for the Deluxe edition, not the Personal one.
I ordered my Zeta a few days ago. I got an email from some company saying they were handeling the orders for YellowTab and that I would get instructions for payment. That was two days ago and I still have not been able to even pay for my copy of Zeta. This is very anoying. Anyone else have this issue?? I will give them till tomarrow, after that I think that I don’t want to order from a company that can’t diliver.
It’s very simple for me. If yT DOES NOT have full and complete access and all modification rights to the BeOS source code including the kernel then I will will not buy Zeta. I am not looking for a patched up 5.03 + with new drivers. What I want is a NEW yT made BeOS with the bugs removed at the source level. yT ***HAS*** to have the source code to properly update the OS as required. If they do not have this from Palm, then any attempt to modernize Zeta from it’s 5.03 + Dan0 origins will fail.
I’m sorry Bernd. I want yT to make it, but without the full rights to the source code from Palm, Zeta does not have a snowballs chance in hell of ever being more than a update to Dan0.
And for all the whiners about why so much fuss about the kernel, it’s becuase we know that without full and open source code rights, yT and Zeta will not be able to survive and prosper. It would be like trying to write the ending of a book before the beginning.
all this fuss about source code seems more result of yT PR “strategy”. Just disappointment about self-made (with strong help from yT) illusions.
In reality, i think most of us are for getting BeOS 2001/2002 aka Dano Personal Edition with added values, on legal ground, with docs and maybe (who needs it) support.
Another thing, though. I wish to really see/know full text of license and copyrights which will be on Zeta release CD.
Proof of rights, permissions and ownership.
yT provides NOTHING about it.
btw, what Bernd had bought for those 400 000 Euro?
Rights to sell 5.1 “PE” with per-copy fee to Palm?
Or rights to sell it unrestricted print number for that one time paid sum?
David,
What you did is not “ordering” Zeta, but “pre-ordering” Zeta. This means that you will not get Zeta before it is actually released, although you are guaranteed to be sent a copy right after Zeta comes out (plus you get a free T-shirt).
The only reason why Eugenia and Frans van Nispen have a copy of Zeta is because they have been promised to be the first to get -and review- it. As you can also see from the review, the version Eugenia reviewed is not RC1, but “RC1-pre+”, in other words “not-yet-RC1”.
So Zeta RC1 is not yet out and that’s why you haven’t got it yet. As soon as the time is right, you will definitely get your RC1, no worries.
If I go by the SCO line of thought Mikael now owns Zeta as it has been tainted by the inclusion of pWarp while being in an unresolved state of licensing.
To be more serious, if you look at the licensing terms pWarp is “postcardware” meaning that he demands to receive a postcard from anyone who uses the application for a prolonged time. seeing that pWarp is enabled by default that means more or less any user. From here on I wonder if that license is included with a Zeta installation. Next I wonder if the responsibility for enforcing the license lies with yT by enabling the application by default. Finally, as the license makes no further mention of allowing or disallowing the use of the application in a commercial setting I have to go by the usual copyright limitations as in, they apply if they aren’t specificly ruled out by the holder of the rights. In this case, including, reselling and profiting from pWarp is a copyright violation and yT is liable.
Hey Jay, that was Mario who asked about office suites in Zeta., not me, mario!
Please, don’t confuse me, I am the one and only one – mario!
;o)
I would like to see that, getting sued for not sending someone a postcard.
Why should they devel the Dano kernel when they are
planning to move to OBEOS kernel when it gets stable ?
[quote]
Why should they devel the Dano kernel when they are
planning to move to OBEOS kernel when it gets stable ?
[/quote]
They are not. Read the recent interview on zetanews.com
Based on Bernd’s response to our repeated questions about WEP:
http://www.yellowtab.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=944&highlight=wep
It’s just another BIG red flag this YellowTab/Zeta is nothing more than a big SCAM. Nothing more than PhOS but they have the gaul to charge for stollen code.
I stand corrected.
Is Dano free, opensource or zeta’s and completly legal ?
>Is Dano free,
No. It is leaked.
>opensource
No.
> zeta’s
No
>and completly legal ?
That’s what YellowTAB claims. And as long as PalmSource doesn’t sue, we have to assume that they are legal.
>What you did is not “ordering” Zeta, but “pre-ordering” Zeta.
What the fuck? Their shop says “Zeta :: Deluxe Edition Special Bundle” is available. I can’t find the words “pre-order” or “will ship when it’s ready” anywhere.
Text from YT shop:
”
As a launching promotion, and for a limited time only, you can order the Deluxe Edition Special Bundle, where along with Zeta Deluxe Edition RC1 (Release Candidate 1), you also receive a free Zeta t-shirt.
”
Order, not pre-order!
I ordered one of the Zeta PCs – again nothing suggested that the product is not yet available – in fact in the email I got they said that the product should arrive in ~7 days. What’s up? Have they fooled me?
Because it IS available?
So why should we mention it is not available. The master is on the way to the manuafactor and we expact the next days the produced stuff to start with the shipping
Bernd Korz
It really does bug a lot of people and I believe that yT is loosing business over this very important issue.
Right now, the only logical choice is to assume the worst: yT has no access to the source.
Prog.
why just a kernel issue? there have been numerous issues raised which need to be adressed. His now apparent tendency to just ignore them isn’t really raising the trust I put into the whole project.
These are indeed sad days. I started out, as most old BeOSers I guess, really looking forward to Zeta, thinking it might well reanimate our poor dear OS, lying there on the stretcher with its shirt torn open and badly in need of a pair of electrical paddles; or, failing that, that Zeta would at least keep the patient on lifesupport long enough for OBOS to come up with a cure.
But as time has gone by, and having also witnessed the debacle that has engulfed the once mighty Amiga community, I’ve come to the realisation that even worse than no company to carry the torch is having the wrong one running with it. I’m not saying that Zeta will be a bad product in the end. It might very well be all I hoped for, in technical terms.
But the WAY that product has come together, and the continuing missteps by Yellowtab, is beginning to tear the community apart. And it now seems like battle-hardened veterans of the Amiga civil wars have got bored and gone mercenary and been hired to do their worst in BeOS-land.
It’s got to the point where I just want to close my eyes and pretend that we’re back to tinkering with DevED and BeOS Max, and I’d never heard the word Zeta.
I simply can’t understand why everyone’s picking on Zeta and YellowTab. What is wrong with them?
Zeta looks like the best BeOS you can get at the moment. OBOS and BlueOS are still in the experimental state, R5 is outdated, DevEd and Max are build on R5 PE and therefore also build on outdated code (e.g. NetServer). Dano is illegal and unstable. According to the reviews, Zeta provides a stable Dano base including BONE and GobeProductive as well as support for modern hardware. What’s wrong with that?
About YT not having the source code: What a stupid claim is that? How could they possibly add additional window decors to the app server if they didn’t have the source code for it?
Civil War???? Hardly.
YellowTab offers a product and I am anxious to have it.
Frankly, who do these people think they are? The reality is that YellowTab has absolutely no obligation to tell them anything. Ask lots of questions but don’t be under the delusion that anyone is entitled to an answer.
Where other companies have withered and departed, we find this company struggling to offer a product and build a sustainable business. More power to them I say. Bravo!
By my measure YellowTab has been a great boost to the community. Those badgering with questions can ask away but they should not be childish enough to then pout when they find out that YellowTab is not inclined to respond to their demands.
YellowTab can keep certain information as company confidential. That is a fact. Speculate all you want but it would be far more productive to actually work on some project to advance BeOS. YellowTab is doing something to advance the community and I say – Good Job!
But there is something called public relations. Surely yT can just keep quiet about whether they have sources or not, or what drivers work etc etc…
But who would wanna buy from a company who treats their clients like that?
Ehrr not me… the whole attitude scares me off. I think Bernd has told customers to bug off almost daily the last 2 years.
So what will customer support be like if any problems occur? Will they tell me to *¤!”¤*%!” off?
I’m not depending on a new OS today, but I’d love to see BeOS or something similar run on my box in the future (within 1 – 5 years). If yT don’t have access to kernelsources, I might as well save my money and offer them to beunited or even better OBOS as soon as they’ve registered their organisation.
The whole point with paying yT now for a not so fantastic product is that they’ll get cash to improve on kernel source… so if that’s impossible, this would be like someone else said. Starting at the end of the book not the beginning…
Enough ranting… I’ll get back to my XP box and read TBJ to hear about all great news in BeLand =)
“Dano is illegal and unstable. According to the reviews, Zeta provides a stable Dano”
?????
How they can do it if all system binaries are just exactly thta same Dano (+ addition of YT’s, but no changes) and, as appeared, there is no way for YT to improve those Dano components?
I dunno, I think yT needs to answer people questions, and ease their fears. (re the kernel etc)
Bernd/yT asking people to have blind faith is asking too much.
Bernd is not the messiah, he’s just a very naughty boy
.
.
.
.
Damned Monty Python.
How they can do it if all system binaries are just exactly thta same Dano
It has new window decors, how can all system binaries be the same?
>It has new window decors, how can all system binaries be the same?
the decors are afaik lua scripts.
however we programmers of an arcane-lore refferred to as, “reverse engineering” it may be something you’ve heard of in software archeology or some of those oddball pinko commie underground magasines.. but don’t discuss this with anyone ;D
I will certanly buy Zeta. It is the BeOS with better hardware support and new features. It is the breath the community needs until OpenBeOS.
I do not care about the source code and kernel. I care about the BeOS I have perform better, and the answer is Zeta for the time being. Do not start trolling me out saying that the kernel will not evolve and bla bla bla, read the paragraph above.
Oh well, the installer. I’ve seen Zeta personally, and it is the way Bernd said on the previous posts. Simple.
Also, it has some pre-sets, I do not remember the names, it is something like: “Best Choice”, “Internet set”, “Full Install”. Besides, you can select the apps you want one by one, if you prefer.
Suffice to say most of you did not notice that Gobe 3 will only be available if Zeta goes well, this is reallt a big possibility thanks to Zeta.
So how the hell can you complain about it? f*ck
I will buy the developer edition.
Thank you yT to allow me to still trust in BeOS.
… if I should buy Zeta or not… I loved the BeOS and would like to work with something like BeOS was, again. I am only affraid I will waste money on a copy of Zeta that will not run on my Notebook, as all BeOS (Max v3 included) don’t. I can not even get them to install… :-S
Next to that I really would like to know, like many others, what is going on with the kernel. Does yT have the source? Don’t they? What does it mean for the future of Zeta and me as a possible customer?
I really wish Bernd would awnser the questions about the kernel…
What matters is the product. If they make enough money initally then a new kernel will come whether it be OBOS or some other.
If I buy Zeta, it is not like I am putting all my eggs in one basket. I’ll still use a GNU/Linux distro and Windows (yes, I put it on my system for Studio MX).
Thanks Eugenia
It seems to me that the whole ??? about zeta will
certainly kill it for Corp use and even effect its
home use. How do i know when buying this OS that they
will be around the next day. Beos is cool. It is the
fastes OS ever and did not crash. I will wait for Obeos.
Zeta just needs to kill the ???.
Best regards
Aaron
Beos can thrive and grow in more than one area. Commercial businesses will feel more comfortable with a commercial company for their business purposes. Just as Red Hat and others offer versions of Linux so can companies like YellowTab be a commercial arm for BeOS. Whether it is YellowTab or some other company, there remains the opportunity for commercial ventures.
This works in cooperation with OpenBeOS. These interests need not be exclusionary.
The entity that does OWN the kernel is Palm Computing. They are in the process of spinning off a separate SW company, PalmSource. This new company may have more interest in BeOS. They may be far more willing to license their property because that is their business mission. They do NOT want to be seen as competing against their customers but rather an independent vendor of SW products (like BeOS) that has a bundle of offerings available for license to all interested parties.
If PalmSource were to be interested in licensing Be code who would they look to? Perhaps SONY or Apple but if not them then who? I think there is room for one or several commercial companies to enter into agreements. Perhaps it would be Red Had (doubtful) but it would be some sort of commercial company in my guess.
If a dedicated BeOS company is literally alive and in business in a few months then PalmSource may be more interested in a partnership or some sort of agreement. If a company like YellowTab is interested in such talks then it would be smart to have their discussions privately and directly with PalmSource and not in some public forum.
It could very will be that PalmSource would be interested in licensing some applications that work well with BeOS so that they can use them to sweeten their own package of offerings. This is good for the community. Developers who have high interest BeOS applications may find that they have value.
There could be beneficial opportunities for several groups within the BeOS community …. if the community does not self-destruct into petty jealously and bickering.
There seems to me to be good reasons for YellowTab to limit their discussions to the product the have for release. Their business situation may be complex and fluid (my guess). I am glad for their effort. I am glad there is a commercial company willing to take the significant financial risks associated with hiring employees and releasing a commercial BeOS product.
Our community has room for the amazing effort demonstrated by the progress of OpenBeOS and the fine volunteers working so hard AND also room for commercial companies. We need to be enlightened to support our entire communtiy and keep our eye on the greatest goal of all – the revitalization of BeOS. Everyone has an opportunity and a part to play. If we are smart we will play our parts in a constructive manner.